Manischewitz with Lisa Smith

This episode of A Change of Brand is brought to you by Standards, the no-code platform for building web-based brand guidelines with total design control. Keep listening to learn more. Hey, also, this podcast is produced by Matchstick, the brand identity house for leaders taking bold steps towards a radically relevant brand. kosher food category is in major decline because more people are being less strict about the food and looking beyond it and we want to invite more people in.

We're going to have to do something pretty loud and brave at this point. Hey everyone, welcome to A Change of Brand, a show featuring behind-the-scenes stories of rebrand glory, drama, or disaster. I'm your host, Tracy Clark. And I'm your host, Blake Howard.

Hey, Blake, how's it going? Tracy, what's up? Yeah, you know, making it happen. Now, I know you know about this brand story that I'm super jazzed to talk about today, but I will say it's a doozy of a brand name.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say this name can be a little intimidating. Yes, I would say so. And names that are intimidating... They have a challenge because it feels a little exclusive at times.

Like as an example, one of my favorite bands, if you ever say their name the wrong way, people sort of look at you funny. And that is a little band that goes by Bon Iver. But I will admit, when I say it properly like that, Bon Iver, I feel a little highfalutin. And I just kind of want, like my Middle Tennessee roots want to just say Bon Iver, you know?

Oh, I definitely thought it was Bon Iver. Yeah. And I probably said that in front of a ton of people and embarrassed myself. Bon Iver, hey, have you heard of the band?

Then I quickly learned that it was the more highfalutin Bon Iver. Yeah. So, you know, sometimes when names are a little bit difficult to say, if you don't say them right, you feel like an outsider. So I think there's definitely some of that at play here.

For sure. And you and I are insiders, right, for this one because we already were familiar with the brand in order to prep for this conversation and maybe in life as well, like we've seen it on the shelves. But others, not so lucky. So, of course, of course, I wanted to put people on the spot and see if they could get the pronunciation right on their own, unprompted.

So I decided to do a little, you know, roving reporter. Or as you'll hear our guest, Lisa Smith, say... She called it a Vox Pop, which I love. Amazing.

I know, right? So anyway, yeah, I asked a handful of people we know how to say the name. Manischewitz. Manischewitz.

Manischewitz. You just repeated what she says. All right, cool. Manischewitz?

Manisch... Manischewitz. Oh, boy. Manischewitz.

Manischewitz or something like that. It's close. You're very close. Manischewitz.

Manischewitz. Manischewitz. Manischewitz. Manischewitz.

Manischewitz. Manischewitz. Pretty, pretty good. Wow, that was brutal.

It really was. Yeah, I felt kind of bad, if I'm honest. But it tells us something about this brand. It may be seen as, not for me, based on that really tough pronunciation.

Like, Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that they should have changed it. It has a lot of equity. But if you're going to have a name that's really hard to pronounce, but it's really distinct.

It's got a lot of good things going for it. The rest of the brand elements need to feel maybe more, I don't know, welcoming, inviting. You know what I mean? I do.

Yeah. A little more clear. And I think this story is interesting also because it's in the CPG space, which is notoriously difficult to achieve distinction, to pop off the shelves, you know. And then if you have distinction or you're recognizable on the shelf, to go through any sort of change is really difficult.

People sort of freak out because that moment of recognition is directly tied to sales and those sales opportunities. drive the bottom line of the company performance. And so executives typically shy from any sort of change in the CPG category, or at least they need to be convinced that this change will work. Yeah, yeah, totally fair.

They definitely do. And sometimes brands, you and I have seen this, they have to take that risk, that calculated educated risk to wake up a category. And that's exactly what this brand needed to do. It's a lot to unpack.

Are you game for giving us a little briefing? Yes, I am, of course. Let's Manischewitz? Let's manifest the Manischewitz.

Let's manifest the briefing? Oh, boy. Hi, here's one of my new favorites. Almaneta, gentle Almaneta, Almaneta from Manischewitz wine.

Has a kind of nutty taste, has a kind of gentle taste, nutty taste, gentle taste, nutty taste, gentle taste. Almaneta, Almaneta, gentle Almaneta, Almaneta from Manischewitz wine. Try some after dinner tonight. It's delicious.

Thanks, Sammy Davis Jr. I'll take it from here. How do you modernize a brand that practically is tradition? For over 130 years, Manischewitz has been a staple in Jewish kitchens, known for its matzah, kosher wines, and boxed mixes that have graced Seder tables for generations.

But in recent years, its visual identity felt frozen in time, more tied to nostalgia than cultural resonance. Manischewitz was founded in 1888 by Rabbi Don Bear Manischewitz in Cincinnati, where it quickly grew by mechanizing matzah baking and making kosher foods available at scale. The introduction of the conveyor belt oven revolutionized matzah production, a major shift from the hand-rolled tradition. Though controversial at first, especially among Orthodox leaders, the innovation was eventually embraced and set the industry standard.

Over the decades, Manischewitz expanded its offering to include broths, macaroons, and sweet kosher wine, creating a pantry full of holiday staples. By the mid-20th century, it was a supermarket fixture and a cultural icon, especially during Passover and Rosh Hashanah. But by the 1990s, after remaining family-owned over a century, the brand changed hands several times and eventually became part of KAYCO, one of the largest kosher food distributors. Still, as Jewish food culture diversified and reasserted itself in modern markets, Manischewitz began to feel like a relic.

Younger generations viewed it as old-fashioned, more Jewish grandma than contemporary kitchen. It faced growing competition from boutique kosher brands and artisanal Jewish food makers with fresher voices and updated looks. In 2019, the first step towards reinvention arrived, a new logo. The orange swoosh and green square were replaced with a simplified orange oval and updated type.

But that was just the beginning. In 2024, leadership at the beloved kosher brand had plans to serve up change with even more chutzpah. Would it pay off? Keep listening to find out.

My name is Lisa Smith. I'm the Global Executive Creative Director at JKR. I was the creative lead on the Manischewitz rebrand and redesign of the identity and the packaging. So let's start with a fun one.

Do you or your family have any traditions around food? Like we tend to focus on sort of the cuisine where my parents grew up in Jamaica, but do you have any family traditions around food? I'm British, so we have a lot of food traditions that are all based on probably not very healthy food. But we love a Sunday roast.

And it's interesting, even in New York, I have a lot of expat friends. And in the winter season, we all do take turns doing a Sunday roast. So we seem to put Yorkshire puddings with everything, even though they're meant to go with roast beef. I love fish and chips.

When I get to go back to the UK, I sort of indulge in all of the things that are are somewhat naughty and delicious and comforting. So let's talk about Manischewitz a little bit. So what was your initial perception of the brand? What did you think about it before you jumped in?

I didn't know the brand that well. I knew it enough to know that obviously like the way the supermarkets are laid out in the States, it's very like different cuisines are sort of or different types of food are very like segregated into their own section and their own parts of the aisles. But I think what was really interesting about this category is the food is somewhat kind of like the bits that I was more familiar with, things like bagels and stuff like that. It's all quite beige food and the packaging all felt very beige.

So it was just like on the outside, it kind of looks quite bland. I think being food curious, which says we got more into kind of knowing the brand and actually talking more and more to people back at JKR about Manischewitz. Manischewitz has paid a role in their lives throughout their life. Since they were young children, this brand has been there.

It's been a staple, traditional Passover's and other traditional kind of So the brand was beloved by many and unknown by many more. That begs the question, of how do you bring a brand like this to the world without losing the core of who you are and who adores you? And Lisa and team would learn that there were even more challenges afoot in the market. The actual challenge was around the kosher aisle, which was in decline as more people start to eat more variety of foods.

They're less strict about what foods they eat. And more and more people are curious about other types of foods and want to be invited in. We have this beautiful situation where it's like, oh, this brand is kind of getting lost. But more people are more curious about food and Jewish food and Jewish culture and study.

And then more people are being less strict. And this brand is just sort of like getting kind of lost in that kind of noise and cultural shifts that are happening. There are secular versus observant audiences and how does Manischewitz serve all of them and how did they work with the brand? One of the things we talked about is in order for them to sort of like survive and then grow, we were going to have to embrace inviting other people into this brand.

But we obviously did not want to alienate all of this passion and the staple for so many Jewish families. We did not want to make this brand feel unfamiliar to them. I think what was really interesting about wanting to bring other people in was there was the cultural shifts around more people of food curious. There was a cultural awakening to Jewish cuisine.

It's becoming more and more like a lot of other people almost bought into Jewish food without even completely knowing it's Jewish food. And I think the last one was that there was a huge re-evaluation that actually kosher food is a lot healthier for you as well because there's a lot less artificial ingredients. It's because it's actually the more simple staples in so many different ways. It's actually got health.

Kosher food has actually a lot of health benefits to it. That sort of trifecta of all of those things made it more of an interesting offer to invite more people to come and savor the traditions of this food. So let's talk a little bit about the pitch process. So how did you hear about the opportunity?

How did it come about and what was the pitch process like? Our chief growth officer, Sarah, she was introduced to Maudie who is the CEO of Keiko, which is a food company that Manischewitz is one of the brands. They acquired Manischewitz. And by somebody that I think had worked at Starbucks and was doing his own entrepreneurial things.

Sarah was brilliant because throughout the process, she showed up throughout it because she built through this kind of like meaning and greeting with Maudie, where they went to a Lower East Side Jewish restaurant together to sort of like see if there was the synergy, what ways could JKR and Keiko kind of collaborate. So Manischewitz wasn't the initial one. It was more like, do we work on some more of their startup brands? Do we work on something else in the portfolio?

But it was Manischewitz that Maudie thought we would be so perfect for. So in this instance, we needed to capture, were there anything, was there things in the archive or anything from Manischewitz? Or was it really about capturing what the spirit is and holding the mirror up and trying to find that? And I think Sarah and Maudie just had built a really good friendship and dialogue.

So when then it came to kind of pitch, it was much more kind of intimate and the process was us sharing our thoughts on Manischewitz and what we could do for them and what the opportunity was. And it was more the instincts and the perspectives that we had was what made the decision whether we were the right partner to be able to work on it. We curated a very mixed and diverse team, which was really important to me because I wanted to capture that super passion for people's dinner table and the history and legacy they had with it.

With some new, fresh perspectives that were like, oh, actually, well, to be honest, they're trying to bring me to the table. Lisa from Long Island, like we had that curation and somehow it really hit it off in what the ambitions and the goals were and the partnership with everybody. Like it was a cacophony, just like a Jewish dinner table where everyone can't stop talking and gets really excited. This is something I really enjoy hearing.

Because in this day and age, post-COVID and all, it's a rare treat when agencies and brands can get together at the table, real or proverbial, and just find out what you're about, what you have in common, and what you can learn from one another. Then it's all the more effective and fun when you start to uncover foundational brand magic together. I got to hear more about what it was like and how important it was to get that part right. Once we curated the sort of JKR team, we did go out and we hit the streets and went and ate in different restaurants together.

We really wanted to understand the sort of culinary traditions and we curated some of these like expert interviews with kind of consumers from both sides, people that were food curious as well as like people who've grown up with this food. And we wanted to try and find what's the magic I remember years ago, I used to do rock pops for every pitch we'd ever do, like to ask people what they thought of, like almost hit the street and ask people what they think of that brand. It was always just so enlightening because you get fed all this quant and qual and so much research and burdened down before.

And you actually, you need to hear some of it verbatim. Like it really, really helps. And I think with this, yeah, mining sort of the culture that was that large and happening in a city like New York that's so rich and so diverse like there was no better place to do it but we also needed to go into the archives but it was really amazing to see the original sort of black and white photos of like yes of the matzah being pressed and the sort of story and journey of this like american jewish food brand and the the identities and and just the language like we we looked at a lot of like jewish cookbooks and things like that to see like what were the design languages what were the photo styles throughout history around this brand and the food.

We're trying to sort of mine the visual world of Manischewitz historically. What was there that were the things we could bring back? What do we need to leave behind? All of those things.

And I think a lot of design tropes that were very similar for all types of Jewish food and Jewish language, which actually made it hard to find something specific that was easy to sort of mine from the past. Was there anything untouchable? in terms of design, messaging, visuals? No, I think that was one of the biggest things that we talked about.

The brand had this iconic name. I think I remember when I first had a call with Maudie, he was like, it's a billion dollar name and we're super well known in culture, but the brand is dusty and in decline and you need to help revive it and get it back to this thing that people have in their hearts and their minds. And I mean, in truth, we did take Manny Shevitz and we did an abbreviation to Manny's because some people say Manny's because Manny Shevitz is a very complicated, long name and word.

Once the JKR team had spent that quality time mining through all this inspiration from language to visuals and finding out just how far they can push this brand. You realize there's great care and intention that has to go with the strategy and brand positioning. I asked Lisa about that moment where it all has to come together from so many inputs. What was that aha moment?

What was that uncovering or that big idea and strategy that made you realize, ah, that's it, that's the North Star? Yeah, I mean, I think the idea, so the brand idea we talked about was savoring our traditions, embracing where we come from, and the sort of generational impact we've had along the way, elevating those kind of traditional roots and then inviting everyone to come in and celebrate this Jewish traditions through food was the core of it. So it had to feel inviting, warm and welcoming and all of those things.

And so then we had principles like inviting confidence. So we knew they have swagger. I mean, I told you they were all like the cacophony of the meetings and the things. The individuals have swagger, not the brand at the time.

technically behind the scenes, they're not an unconfident brand. And they'd done a few things like in social that were quite provocative and fun and playful. So I knew they had a bit of that confidence and swagger that they needed. So how could we be proud of their fame and welcoming of the traditions, that spirited personality?

Well, that is the cacophony of like millions of voices and everyone talking over and a Jewish dinner table when they're really into it but then the idea of inviting others sharing those traditions and the excitement around that it's just charming and not afraid of sharing those honest opinions and the last one was craveable comfort food brands should feel like you want to eat it so obviously that but the comfort bit with the craveable comfort is that level of kind of like warmth and indulgence and richness and the emotional and sort of sensorial impact you want to have around that food so we held those up and filled in all of the work through that okay so they're feeling good about the three foundational principles to anchor the brand work inviting confidence spirited personality and craveable comfort but can we count our matzo balls before they're fluffy as a strategist i always wonder if the strategy is approved round one Or if they have another go, or several.

And keeping in mind their beloved existing audience, was there anything they felt they should keep, like, as a relic or an homage to the existing brand? Can you really reinvigorate a category without starting over completely? Did they buy into the strategy direction round one, or was it some tweaking, or... Oh no, no, I definitely, we were tweaking.

The sentiment was there, the getting the words articulated took a little bit more time and fine tuning and a lot of back and forth. Like sometimes we're not perfect or we've misunderstood the brief or the, you know, something's gone awry. And you need to know that the relationship's there. And of course, we're building this wonderful relationship with Manischewitz.

And of course, when that happens in Strat, and then you're ready to go into design, and it's not a perfectly linear process that we know, but you're still tweaking words. And we're like, we need the words to know what we're bringing to life. And so there's all this dance back and forth between strategy and design. But it was a fun dance.

Yeah, sometimes it can be a fun, an invigorating dance. And sometimes it's, okay, well, I'm getting a little nervous, right? And it was really important to get that right because one of the biggest things I think that's part of this brand identity isn't just the visual side, it's also the verbal, the tone of voice. And I think our writer, Jo, who's embedded in this process too, really being able to kind of take those principles and then sort of have fun with, again, What's the Jewish language we use in society that everybody says, you know?

And how can you mix some of that in without being too try-hard, too stereotyping? All of these things, it was a very careful balance that I think we managed to find, again, the sort of warmth and joy in all of this. We talked about the dynamicness of, like, especially with all the different packaging formats, are there ways, different ways we could mix play with this very long word that has to fit on a jar of soup. And so we started to talk about, oh, can we use the abbreviation manis in some places?

And then we even got down to the M apostrophe Z for like really shorthand or tops of bottle lids and things like that. So it really became actually a very dynamic, expressive, wordmark type system. And we talked about the snacks could be the manis because it's like a snackable logo. And they love that idea and they're starting to do that now.

The only other thing we did retain was the orange from the last round because they'd started to use orange in the band. It actually brought out the kind of warmth in the food. And then we started to play with a range of sort of like... We actually sort of embraced the cream and the beige in some ways and have...

cream which gives again and it's sort of it can cue a little bit nostalgic but it does make everything feel warmer but it works really well when you start to see the portfolio that's all within sort of a palette that's all really complementary to each other but I think orange is really the only thing that we retained. I think the question is always to ask is what is recognizable and to your point the name and the color orange is the two things that one it was just because it had been going the orange had been there for so long and then the name but yeah there was no visual cues or anything else that was memorable in people's minds it was just more just in their heart and mind what this brand stood for but quite tricky because it's like when you go and start doing design directions for a brand that you do have more permission is how do you actually build it off the strategy.

And I think the strategy was one of the most important pieces in this brand. When a category, which kosher food category, is in major decline because more people are being less strict about the food and looking beyond it and we want to invite more people in, we're going to have to do something pretty loud and brave at this point. It's time for a quick break. Will one of these concepts win them over and break the brand wide open?

Or is their fear of change going to be too much to bear? All that and more when we come back. What if your brand guidelines were as easy to edit as a doc or as precise as your design files and you didn't need a single line of code? That can't be true, you're saying.

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That's M-A-T-C-H-S-T-I-C dot com. And if you're enjoying this and other episodes, be sure to tell a friend or leave us a review. Okay, back to the show. Before the break, we were feeling the pressure Lisa and team must have been under to deliver this brand in a way that really needed to wake up an entire food category.

And with three directions and a lot of opinions, how on earth would they choose? Would any of them fit the bill to create that much needed splash while keeping the love? Could they have their coffee cake and eat it too? I remember that meeting pretty vividly, to be honest.

And it was at KCO's offices in New Jersey. And I think it was one of our creative directors and myself and account director and the strategy. So there was maybe four of us representing the team. I think we often invite the full team on the rest of Zoom.

And then this meeting, it had Maudie, who is the CEO of Keiko. He's unlike any CEO I've met because he's just such a character and so warm and welcoming and loud and opinionated and storied. This was said with love, I'm sure, right? Absolutely with so much love, like literally brimming with all of it at once, which is amazing.

Shani, who was sort of the brand manager and lead for Manischewitz, she is responsible for all of Manischewitz, but she partners very closely with So their relationship was just really great to see and a lot of trust, a lot of like... You could have opinions and back and forth and things like that. And then, yeah, then there was other senior members from Keiko and from the creative team. We presented three creative directions in that meeting and restrung the sort of narrative for each of the directions of several traditions.

And so there was a really clear narrative. Once they saw everything, were they clamoring to get a word in or did they take a moment to process? They didn't actually speak when we initially presented the directions, because I think if they start speaking, they wouldn't be able to stop. So in a good way, in a really good way.

But it was like, we're on something like this. This is going to wake up this category. Everyone in the room got up and they started moving. I saw them start to cut out the bits that they like and move them around until we sort of ended up with predominantly was in one direction, but bits of the others.

came into it and they took some bits out and it was brilliant and I loved it. I wish I'd filmed it looking back again. And in here, the actual three did look quite different. So I remember one having a lot more yellow because there was yellow in some history pieces with contrast of dark blues and stuff like that.

There was one that was like louder with expressions of height and like very almost poetic and rhythmic, the cacophony of the conversation I think we brought to life. We ended up doing that with some of the dynamic type later on. We held some of that. Another one was a bit more like from the heritage and the stamps and creating these kind of pieces.

Ironically, that bit kind of actually is what we kept because it became quite a typographic brand as well with the illustration. So it's kind of like all this dynamism. And then one was very photographic and almost recipe-led. Actually, that was the one that died the most, but actually some of the style of the photography stayed.

I think we went into kind of patterns and borders and things like that that we'd seen. We'd connected the dots again from a lot of the Jewish cooking books and cards and things that we'd found from babas throughout the whole of history. And I think we'd even talked about do we do some handwriting and have it feel more like recipe-led and pieces like that. So we came out of that meeting with a blueprint.

It didn't all look right because they all came from different directions. So we had to go and figure that piece out. But I think everybody understood, like, oh, we love the character of the type like this. We love the boldness of the colors like this.

We love the illustration and the warmth of wrapping yourself around a warm hug of a soup bowl. So the pack should feel like it. There was enough there. And with that approval process, it was, I think everyone pretty much did it live in the room.

And yes, Sharni might share that a bit more afterwards. I'd meet with her and the account team. We would meet weekly. regardless throughout the process anyway.

So we stay very, very close. But she was already thinking, how will this roll out? What will the story be? Who should be involved in the rollout?

Should I have a campaign? Should I be doing activations? We had access to very senior people. I wouldn't normally be doing the first round creative meeting with the CEO in the room.

So that is already quite a different process and project in itself. That makes it quite special. That shows how important it was to him Yeah, they have to be committed to this process and to the outcomes from the get-go or else it's going to be very difficult. And they trusted you all.

Like starting from a place of trust or relational moments can definitely help. Oh yeah, they didn't hold back if they don't like something, trust me. And we were moving pretty fast. The time was now because honestly the category, they couldn't let time slip away much more because it would be too detrimental business-wise.

With the creative direction in hand, this is where the even tougher work began. They had so many SKUs and so little time. Now, a lot of clients get worried about launch in particular because they think it's a really specific light bulb moment when everything goes dark, people wait with anticipation, and when the light flips back on, everything is magically in the new brand style. Yeah, that never happens.

It's thoughtful, but it's phased. It's progressive. You prioritize things based on a number of factors that will ensure maximum impact at the right times on the right shelves. But you've got to keep the trust up and stick to the plan, even when it feels terrifying.

I think one of the biggest pieces that we hadn't cracked in that first meeting was some of the packaging. Because I think we were doing a lot on the brand identity. What does the feeling of the brand feel like? And then we're showing it, sort of prototype sketching it onto some fat pieces, which we picked like, I think, some of the key skews.

So you always go back to Matt says it's an OG product. You get that right. And then they have millions of different variabilities within the matzos as well as like specific ones for Passover and blah, blah, blah. So that's a whole design conundrum in itself.

And then the similar with the quantities of soup and things like that. But we've done some test illustrations with an illustrator where they were hugging the bowl of the soup. This character was coming round. Whilst we might not have nailed any of the others, it was that was like, oh my God, that was, is spot on.

It was almost like that became our lead visual. That's like, how do we create this feeling across everything we make and do? And that's also a big undertaking because there's so many clients would be like, oh my God, now I've got to commission illustration for every pack, every this, every that. And they were so, yeah, they're just really impressed.

I mean, we didn't know the answer to that initially, but they've gone on to, they now collaborate direct with the illustrator on specific skews and things like that, which is amazing. So they were, yeah, that ability to make that decision on that commitment to an illustrator commissioning, that's, that's a huge deal. And that's something a lot of, a lot of clients can't stomach. I know, I know, I know.

Cause there's licensing, there's all different challenges. These days I'd hear like, oh, we like that. Can we just do that then in AI? You're like, No, that is an artist's work and there are ethics around that.

We can create you an AI illustration style that is our vision of what that looks like that's not born of artists, but you don't want that either. You don't want that either, yeah. I mean, especially when you think of how human this brand is. I mean, brands are striving to be more human, generally speaking, but something like this, you don't want to mess with the human factor of it.

And if somebody has diligently, painstakingly, lovingly drawn this and illustrated it, then you want that to be, you can feel it. It's everything is crafted and thought about and everything is like a cacophony of layers. I often think about photographer Martin Parr and I have one of my favorite photos of the teacup, which is in British China, which is on a mat, which my mom in the 80s used these table mats that have seams on them or something like that. And then it would be on like a flowery patterned thing that might be on a formica table.

And so you're just like the layers on the layers and the layers. That's this brand. Yes, exactly. And people will love it more than if it was created in AI or something.

They won't know why. If you compare them side by side, they'll gravitate towards this and they won't know why. But that is a big part of it. Maybe you don't know this off the top, but start to finish.

How long do you think it took, the process? It launched just before Passover the previous year. So it's been in the market just for a year. So that's great to see how it's doing.

And I would say this year is the first year that the whole shelf block is completely done. The shelf is going to be messy a bit for the next year, which is a bit scary to businesses. Do you know what I mean? It's like navigating it and stuff like that.

But the Matzo range and a few of the other products ranges were launched at the previous Passover and it was just enough to get there. And they did quite a lot of like shopper marketing. So they went very tactical on like stuff that you see at shelf. I think they went to the key products that were for Passover, the ones there.

So it meant that the switch into new pack would happen the fastest. And a lot of the cakes and sweets and all of those things went very quickly into the change as well. But I think back to the rest of the process, the core of it was about, it was like six to eight months. But maybe with the sort of rolling out of the packaging, the production, it was about a year.

So, I mean, in the end, when you look at it, it's two years to see it fully run. Yes, it's going to be a transitional phase and that's perfectly normal and fine. So I want to switch gears for a moment because I'm curious what creative element, it could be design, that could be verbals, did you personally love? I mean, it's hard to choose a favorite baby, but is there just an element that you just felt was just so spot on?

Yeah, it is hard to choose because I do love the dynamism of the wordmark system. and that we could go down to the abbreviated name and then we could get down to almost a monogram. And we collaborated with Simon Walker, the typography and the character that we were also trying to get into that. So there's like very subtle winks in some, all the details are really considered.

I do think the illustration just added so much character and quirk. And we were inspired by like old New Yorker and like comics, New York Times kind of comic strip style, sort of introducing the food and stuff like that. And so I think that's, probably the illustration, but I love all the hidden sort of details. And we worked with an incredible Jewish photographer as well, which was really great.

So we were really cognizant of the curation of the mix of the team too. I think it was always keeping the real balance between Jewish and non-Jewish because that was the design challenge. So we curated partners and creators from both perspectives as well. Yeah.

And talk a moment about the photography style just a little so we can capture that as well. Because I know we've talked about color palette typography and the beautiful illustrations, the fun illustrations. Talk a little bit about photography and what you knew you needed to achieve. I think with that as well, it's like, well, one, it had to achieve the craveability.

So that warmth, the deliciousness, all of that. And as much as it's about the photo style, which is macro and quite close, we did do wides and closings. It was the curation of the props as well, the eclecticism that was around some of that. And it was to make sure the food just didn't appear as bait.

It was sort of like how we'd experienced it in restaurants. We were sort of trying to recreate that and just bring that level of warmth and yumminess that we know. Yes, absolutely. Now, was there any element that maybe was harder to to execute than you thought or harder to think through I think the packaging system like I really love the way we organized it in terms of like we took the full kind of portfolio which instead was at the time was over 220 different products but we really put it through three lenses of like products that you needed to actively cook so you use a stovetop or an oven and use in some way Then you have like the convenience things, which were more like the chicken, the matzo ball soups, other products like cereal and granola and things like that.

And then you had your kind of like comfort foods, which were more like the snack foods, more like treats, hence the Mani's snackable logo, cookies, crackers, all of that. And then celebratory things that were more like the matzo for Passover and stuff like that. But they all technically look the same. It was just a bit like, so it was a kind of like hierarchies, introducing other color coding to differentiate, save rescues and stuff like that.

Little bit of like, those were not easy challenges. And we took just enough on of the most complex pieces of the packaging to help solve the system. But it was quite tricky. Now, is there anything particularly bold or risky in the creative direction that you had to fight for?

We loved the illustration, but we questioned it. Could it work on everything? Was it sustainable? Like what will be the cost implications?

As well as like the actual logistics of where and how it's all going to fit on packaging because there's so much information. So there was some constraint things. There were maybe some technical challenges around some of those types of things. I think more towards the end, it was like, do we just roll this out and it just hits shelf or do we need to tell a story?

A lot was happening politically in the world at the time as well, so we were very conscientious to try not to get caught up in everything that was happening in the world and the noise and stay true to what the brief always was and how we could make this American Jewish food brand as relevant today as it had been in the past. Yeah, absolutely. And the thoughtfulness that needs to go into that launch. Internally, how did they roll it out?

How did the layers get introduced? Unlike other teams where I've seen where it's like, oh, we're going to operate in a tent and we're not going to show anyone else. And then we'll introduce people slowly. They were going out of their meetings, showing them straight away.

There was no awareness we needed to do in terms of like... We're going to have a party and launch this internally. It was like, it was already, everyone was pretty aware. They definitely have work to do with obviously sharing it with their customers.

So this sort of going around and the sales team having the right sales deck to be able to start to tell the story. Yeah. And so it was really welcomed by the customers because we were going to reinvigorate a whole aisle of the supermarket, essentially. It was exciting.

I think the customer was really embracing. Yeah, they were ready. Now, what was the hardest part about the project? What phase was the biggest struggle?

The in-between of like where you have a cacophony of like merging three directions into one. I generally love because I do think you're going to land on something much more unique. Like there was a heritage direction, essentially. There was the cacophony spirit of Jewish culture direction.

And then there was this kind of like recipe one. When you start to bring them all together, you start to make a more unique brand for Manischewitz. But the jump between cutting it all up and putting back together is a very uncomfortable, divine moment. As I said, actually, it was embraced with such warmth and excitement.

I've never had, like we were talking about how many food critics wanted to interview us after that. I've never had that before. So like with the New York Magazine food critic or the New York Times, A brand normally never gets talked about in the food critic section, do you know what I mean? It was an interesting one because it was such an important part of, again, people's staples at the table.

I have to laugh at the fact that the Keiko and Manischewitz folks were no holds barred when it came to sharing the work internally. This is a dangerous game that can derail this kind of work really quickly. For example, opinions on the work without context can create sideways energy, trying to justify work that has already been painstakingly developed, discussed, and vetted. And people are naturally resistant to change, which can lead to unfounded negativity towards the work.

But because the connection and trust were established early on, they stayed the course and launched the new brand successfully to audiences who seemingly warmly welcomed the change. I mean, the reception, I've never received reception on a brand like we've received with Manischewitz. I still get notes to this day. I have a note from a client who said, just come after this Passover, how this has made such, in what are quite difficult times, such a difference to have such a joyful brand on the dinner table during Passover.

Genuine connection between agency and brand is such a key tenet that gets lost or minimized. But when you work at it and make it a priority, the brand has no choice but to be successful because it's based on honesty inside and out. The lesson that Lisa would then tell me made all the sense in the world for a brand that has brought people together through food for over 130 years. And it's one of the hardest things for brands to embrace.

be yourself. We always coined that at Take Care as a Stolen with Pride Oscar Wilde quote. And we ask that of all of our staff and everyone that works there. And we ask that of the brands we do.

But honestly, this is really a true reflection of who Manischewitz are. It's just a brand that's all about its soul. So getting to hold that mirror up and reflect it, but spend the right amount of time with them. I can't recommend that enough because it's just like and everybody was themselves they all came to the table as themselves very like honest if like I haven't had experience with this food or the culture so I'm so much more open and I just think I learned so much in this project I hope you enjoyed this episode of A Change of Brand.

Be sure to tune in to the next episode of Season 6 featuring the great Jaguar controversy with branding expert and author Laura Ries and tech writer and editor Dr. James Morris. And if you like what you hear, Hey, give us a follow. Till next time, I'm your host, Tracy Clark, signing off.