5 Star Conversations with Craig Bond | Embracing AI & Authentic Service

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Five Star Conversations where we talk with hoteliers making an impact on the industry. And today I have the pleasure of talking with Craig Bond, Chief Operating Officer of Pan Pacific Hotel Group. Welcome Craig.

Speaker B: Hey Brendan. Welcome. And uh, welcome to you and thanks for the opportunity to uh, great to see you. We've known each other for many years so thank you for the opportunity to uh, join you today.

Speaker A: Thank you. And I know how busy your schedule is. We, we planned this one um, month. It's taken a little while actually. You had to move hotel groups I think.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think um, you know we tried to do it at a conference in Bangkok, we. So I think we've tried to do it over a few countries but um, I'm in Singapore today so I'm glad we could carve out the time to do it.

Speaker A: I love it. And all good things come to those who wait.

Speaker B: Very true. Thank you. That's right. Good advice Craig.

Speaker A: What I always like to do is just start off by reading your bio. Just to give our listeners and our viewers, because this is a vodcast, for want of a better term. Sure. Um, an idea of your time in the industry and um, the calibre of the person we're talking to.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, so Craig is a highly accomplished global hospitality executive who currently serves as the Chief Operating Officer for Pan Pacific Hotel Group based in Singapore. As he said, in this prestigious role he oversees the operations, strategic direction and guest experiences for a massive global portfolio uh, of more than 50 hotels, resorts and service suites managing properties across 30 cities in the Asia Pacific, North America and Europe. Craig is responsible for driving operational excellence across the three distinct world class brands being Pan Pacific, Park Royal Collection and Park Royal. Um, dear to my heart. I started my career actually um, at a Park Royal um, more than 25 years of hands on leadership experience. Craig's career is defined by his operational track record in international asset optimization, stakeholder management and navigation of major corporate transitions. Before stepping into his global role at Pan Pacific, he served as Managing Director for La Vie Hotels and Resorts, an owner centric independent management company spanning Australia and Southeast Asia. His extensive executive footprint also includes high profile regional roles such as Executive Vice President and CEO of Onyx Hospitality Group in Bangkok, vice President of Operations for Oakwood in Singapore and area General Manager for Pan Pacific, um, Oceanic Region. Craig's foundational expertise was built with a mature Australian hospitality market where he spent a decade decade in major regional uh, leadership roles including regional General manager for Mirvac Hotels and Resorts and group operations manager for Seville Hotel Group. I think that's where we first met, actually. Um, throughout these 10 years, he specialized in maximizing asset value, building robust investor relations and guiding portfolios through major brand acquisitions by multi M giants like Accor and Amantra Group. Known for his strategic, uh, vision and ability to balance commercial profitability with sincere brand authentic service. Craig stands out as one of the Asia Pacific region's premier hospitality authorities. So welcome again, Craig.

Speaker B: Thanks Brendan. Thanks for the intro. I think we did meet back in the Seville days, which great, uh, part of my career and uh, wow, that must be now. Odd years. 25 years. Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm thinking 2005, 2006.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, so, you know, 20 years ago. It's about right.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Wow. Time flies.

Speaker A: It does, it does. We're all wiser, uh, and mature these days. Craig, the first question I always like to ask people is, is, is the calling. You know, you've had leadership roles, uh, starting in the 90s. Will you correct me? It wasn't Constellation Group. I think he started even before that. But then you've obviously got Seville Mirvac. Looking back to those early days, was there a specific moment where you, you realized, you know, hospitality is it, it's, it's, you know, it's what I want to do forever?

Speaker B: Yeah, look, from the first job that I had, which was, uh, I grew up in Newcastle, north of Sydney, so that was where, uh, we grew up as kids. And so I joined the hospitality business in Newcastle. And you know, I come from a family of hospitality. So. Right. From my grandfather to my mother and to my father, they've all either been, uh, involved in hospitality in some parts of their life. And uh, my grandfather, until he passed away, was involved in hospitality all his life. Uh, so I've always been a part of it. I remember, you know, my grandfather was um, part of the old Stewart and Lloyd's, uh, recreation club in Mayfield, which is opposite like gin, which was a huge, um, steel factory. Right. So he would be senior executive there, but he was also a director of the club. And uh, he was very involved in, in the hospitality. And never forget on the weekends he used to have to go in early in the mornings because they used to have to empty all of the, the uh, poker machine money and then they'd have to give it to the cashier and they'd have to prepare it. So I'd love staying at uh, my grandparents place on the weekend. And I used to be out of England, my grandfather, and then we used to be able to, you know, get Exposed to the stage, the back of house lay the back of house area. So as a young kid, I used to love, you know, seeing behind the scenes. So I think that's what gave me, you know, that appetite for hospitality. And, uh, because I sort of grew up in many different ways. So, uh, that's. That's. I think, uh, what gave me that appetite to join the industry. And I joined the industry, uh, at a young age in, uh, Newcastle. And, uh, I've said. I've said this before is that, uh, my first role was I, uh, walked into a hotel. It's called Noah's on the beach, and it's still there today. And it's opposite Newcastle Beach. 50% of the hotel faces the ocean. The other 50% face the harbor. Um, so there's an advertised position, I think, for F and B. So I went to apply for it, privately owned and operated. And the owner, she's very nice, uh, but she said, look, you've got no experience. But she said, I like you. Uh, so the job she gave me was to actually, uh, clean the glass every day of the salt air off all the rooms facing the ocean. And that's the way I got my foot in the door. Right. So every day I go in the balcony and get the squeegee out and take the salt air off. And as they got to know me, then moved me into weddings and F and B and et cetera. So that was how I entered the industry and started at the bottom. And, uh, which I think is really nice grounding.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think she was obviously testing persistence, you know, um, giving you that tough job. It's like, if you can. If you can handle it, then great.

Speaker B: Look. Tough owner. Fair, but tough. And I, um. You know, working early in your career for owner operator has really also, um, sort of given me that great grounding from the beginning because he's a lot more ownership and, uh, uh, rather than pure manage. So it was a nice entry into it. Tough. Uh, but, uh, the grounding was fantastic. And of course then back then they had the best, um, like fine dinings. They'd move you through banquets and bankers like, you know, weddings. Fish or beef? Fish or beef. And it was a beverage package. And then, um, back then they had a sea spray restaurant, which is still there today. But back then it was fine dining. So the cocktail bar, uh, you know, where people would come in at the old style, sit down, have their cocktails, move through, uh, fine dining, a la carte service. So back to the old days of, you know, Riding out the jeeps. Who's in position? 1, 2, 3, 4. All those things. So great experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, really good experience. And your first role, I think I've. I've heard you talk about it on another podcast or as an article. You took a leap of faith and applied for a job. Was it in Queensland?

Speaker B: It was, it was, Yeah. I was 24 years of age and I got, um, contacted, uh, by a head hospitality headhunter about a GM role in North Queensland. Mission Beach. Right. So I think it was called. I can't remember. It ended up being the Point, but before that, I forget the name what it was, but it was only 30 keys was opposite Dunk Island. Stunning. But then we went through the interviews. It was owned by some architects in Melbourne, actually. They owned that property. They owned, um, a, uh, couple late. The, um, resorts also in Palm Cove. And then they went into receivership. Voluntary administration. So headhunter called me and said, look, they've gone into voluntary administration. What do you want to do? And I went, my gosh, we've all come down all this journey. I said, well, you know what? Let's give it a go. I had to pay for my own ticket to get there, right. So I flew myself there and, uh, I had, I had to run the resort out of a petty cash tin because you're dealing with local supplies, everyone knows voluntary, so no one's giving you credit. So back then shows me I'm getting older now. But we had the old telex. Right. Machine. There was no opera, uh, it was the Whitney system. So we had the book with the ruler with the pencil. Right. So, um, I took it on and, um, that was my first GM role. At 24, you'd have a lot of owners coming, a lot of tyre kickers coming in. And then we end up. Because you would check people in, you would take their luggage down, very small team, you'd serve for breakfast. And, uh, eventually it was sold, uh, to, uh, some investors, um, that actually kept me on, went through a redevelopment, doubled the size, turned into a luxury hotel, etc. So that was a really nice, uh, um, segue during my career as my first gm. We then introduced opera, um, micro point of sale. Um, so I had a lot of, A lot of help from the owners who were very experienced in hospitality. That actually taught me a lot in my early days. So, uh, that was, that was, that was fun time. And back then Mission beach and Dunk Island. Dunk Island Resort was owned by. I think it was owned by Qantas Group back then. So, yeah, it was busy at um, Badar island, the other side. So that part of Queensland back then was really humming. So yeah, it was an exciting, exciting time in my career. 24 year old in a backpack of town. Uh, was fun.

Speaker A: That's a great story. And it just goes to show, you know, a common theme, you know, sometimes you just have to take those chances, you know, as you said, you paid for your own ticket and you had no idea, you know, what, what your tenure would be like.

Speaker B: Uh, no idea. And we had to generate cash, you know, so we had to rely on locals. So we did a lot of F and B promotions to get the locals back to generate cash so you could keep the property moving along. It was fun. Honestly, it's so memorable. And I had such a fabulous time and met many people and uh, gave me a lot of experience and uh.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, really, really. It sounds like really good grounding. I remember Mark Hodge, who you would know.

Speaker B: Yes, I know Mark very well. Good guy.

Speaker A: You know, he's dead. Bought them a property in, in Glen Innis and said you run it. And um, he said that, you know, he learned by the seat of his pants because there was no other option. So yes, it sounds like you're sort of in that, in that same boat. But great, great experience. Yes.

Speaker B: And you know, back then you could probably do it. Times have changed now of course, but uh, in that time of life. And I'll be 55 this year. Right. So 25 years ago or more than that, 30 years ago. So uh, wow. There you go.

Speaker A: There you go. So your career has taken you from obviously managing Australian apartment hotels, uh, to the executive suite in Bangkok and Singapore with Onyx and now Pan Pacific. You've obviously had lots of people that inspired you or mentored you over the years. And I know it's hard to sort of name one or two, but is there a particular person, uh, or a couple of people that come to mind?

Speaker B: For sure, look, there's many I've been so lucky to work with incredible um, leaders that have entrusted me, empowered me, taken a risk on me. Um, you know I look at back in the day of Constellation, um, Hotels Group. Right. So after Mission beach when I was in Cairns, I met the managers of ah, back then was a Reef Hotel casino. Was still the Reef Hotel Casino but the hotel, the casino was run by Casinos Austria and the hotel was actually operated by a Constellation Hotel which originally was two Ross Hotels.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And Darryl Courtney o', Connor, owner and CEO back then. And um, so working for Darryl Courtney o' Connor back then he had country comfort, Chifley. I mean his portfolio in Australia was um, quite impressive back then. They were a leader in hospitality and way ahead of the game. So working for Darrell, uh, Courtney o', Connor, um, was very inspiring. He's all about his people and um, you know, so he was quite a uh, inspiration for me at the beginning of my career. Then I moved M. You know, if you think about Seville Hotel Group, Greg Sear, I mean great leader, you know, I was introduced to Greg and uh, he took me on to. Moved into Seville, Adelaide and then went from Adelaide, then I went to Darwin, then went to Brisbane with him and then he promoted me director of operations for the group. And um, still great friends, um, with Greg today. You know, very well respected industry, uh, um, veteran, if I can call him that. Then I moved through to um. We'll talk about the acquisitions later. But then with Mirvac Hotels, right? So um, Mirvac, I had great times there and um, we had a lot of change. So I had Stephen Burt. So Stephen Burt come in at the end of course when they look uh, to actually sell the business. And Stephen, Stephen was actually in their um, investment arm of Mirvac. It was very interesting because when I went for the interview with Mirvac, I get into the lift, come downstairs and of course when people come true hospitality, you know, you open the door, let people come in and say good morning. And one of those people happened to be Stephen Burt. Right. He was interviewing me for the role and uh, so it was actually just great timing. Um, uh, and the other one, Andrew Turner, who cannot forget Andrew Turner before Stephen sort of come in at the end. Andrew Turner still. Whenever I see Andrew, I love seeing Andrew. He built Mirvac, you know, from zero to 50 odd hotels before it was acquired by Accor. And I had a great guy and uh, you know, down to earth. And uh, I, I really learned a lot from him. Then I moved to um, ham. Civic Hotels Group. Yeah. And uh, so I head up Australia. I ran them for 202012 to 2016 and five properties was based in Sydney. And Dean Shriver, uh, well actually it's very interesting. I met Patrick in Bardelli, right. So Patrick Bardelli. And everyone knows Patrick. I mean he's uh, yep, the best in the business. So he was a great mentor for me. And uh, I met uh. There's a lady that used that, um, Michelle Loader who used to be the CEO, right. Of um. Ahs. We were at the very first A High conference, right. That was at the Swiss Hotel in Sydney. Yep.

Speaker A: I remember that very first one.

Speaker B: There's 90 people there, right? 90. And at the same night they did the HM Awards which was at. Down at um. P On.

Speaker A: At the Star or not yet.

Speaker B: No, there's only 100 and something people down at Dalton House. Right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So you'd have hm. The uh. A highest. The first one ever. And then the awards night. So at the conference I was introduced to um, to Patrick by um. Michelle. And Patrick's just got this amazing ability that when you have your five minutes with him, it's your five minutes. He's very engaging. So anyway, that night we went to the awards night and I won Hotel General Manager of the Year at the A Highs Awards. And Patrick can come up and he goes look, I hear this is very well deserved. Fast forward. Then they had a position available in Australia. Patrick then said to the HR team, you contact this guy. And then I ended up getting the job. But it was Dean Shriver. And you probably know Dean. Dean's been around. And so Patrick, great mentor Dean Schreiber, who was my boss, he was actually in m. The role I've got now with Pan Pacific. So work with Dean. Love working with Dean. And uh, then Dean left. He become the head up Oakhood. And uh, I always wanted to then move through to Asia because I really love the dynamics and uh, Pan Pacific always wanted me to come up but Mr. Gui was in the. In the helm back then. And um, he goes but we don't want you. Australia is doing so well but we don't want to move you. And then eventually after Dean had been gone for a year he goes right Bondi, you're coming up. You gotta be here. Come and head up operations for me at Oakwood, based in Singapore. And that was great. So I worked with Dean twice and uh, then I got this great. I got this call out of the blue from Onyx and. And so I moved through to Onyx Hospitality and um, had great time there, uh, working in Bangkok, uh, you know, and now back at um, Pan Pacific and I have the pleasure of having a um. Actually Onyx. Douglas Martel. Right. Douglas Martel. Ihg many years. He uh, took the punt on means is right. I had a wonderful uh, tenor uh, with Douglas. Very empowering guy and uh, another great leader I've worked with. And now I'm back at Pan Pacific. I have the pleasure of working with our CEO, which is Chopeng, uh Sum. One of the nicest guys in the business. Very empowering. So I'm very lucky that through all my Career, including where I AM now with Mr. Cho, is that I've really had, uh, I mean, you asked for a couple of names, but I've given you many. They actually all have played a part in the career and they're all, uh, fabulous leaders in their own right. And what's great about our business is that if we see each other, we talk, if we need to connect, we connect. And that's what's so wonderful about this industry, is that you always will come across each other sometime. And if you need to reach out, you reach out. And I don't think there's any other industry quite like it.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Very lucky.

Speaker A: Yeah. And there's some great people there, as you said, Patrick. And by Delhi, Andrew Turner, Dean, stalwarts of our industry.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah, Andrew. I work for a company into, uh, Touch. When we were doing guest Internet for Movac in, I remember early 2000.

Speaker B: Yes, yes.

Speaker A: We'd have meetings with, with Andrew and he was just so approachable. It was, um. And he wanted to be, you know, involved and, and kept up to date on what was happening. And they were the early days, I think the first Moback properties we weren't even installing with Ethernet. It was actually serial cabling back then,

Speaker B: putting it through the phones. Right through the.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was sort of semi dial up, you guess, had to load a driver. So. And then Ethernet came about and we thought, wow.

Speaker B: And now I remember when I was at Seville and I was running Darwin and back then, uh, John Howard was the prime minister at the time, and they would always come and stay at Seville. And it was coming up quite a lot. There's a lot of defense deals going on. And so they would take, you know, two top. The top two floors, but you'd need all this Internet. But back then, my gosh, the cables used to have to run because it's all dial up and had, you know, engineering running all these cables. I never forget. And you think now how times have changed, uh, to what it was back then.

Speaker A: Yeah, Yep. It still happens a little bit. I won't mention any names. I was talking to someone I, uh, work with. There was a overseas prime minister staying at a hotel recently who had to have his own PABX and fax lines put in to the hotel because they still.

Speaker B: Today.

Speaker A: Still today, this is literally. It's happening right now. They feel that faxes are a little bit more secure. So.

Speaker B: Wow. I mean, I think it's a couple of things. If you see when someone says, this is our fax number, you go, okay. Interesting. And it's like uh, and we're all, we're all guilty of it. When we put on our WI fi on our website, free WI fi, and you go, wow. You know, like the fax machine, My gosh. I mean if you don't take a photo of the fax machine, what's on that bit of paper? If you don't print it on the right. Paper's gone, right? No, he's right. Likes it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. How times have changed. So I always like to ask, we know the, the Craig Bond, chief operating officer, uh, you know, driving results across the Asia Pacific and uh, America and Europe. But is there a, uh, an after work Craig Bond that has a passion for something that uh, not many colleagues would know about? Now I've had people that have, have been ex drummers that do martial arts.

Speaker B: Not that exciting. Brendan. I'm sorry, not that exciting. Look, for me, my work is very much part of my life, right? And I always say to people, don't look at this as the benchmark because it's not for everyone, but that's just me. But outside of uh, of work, for me it's relaxation, great food, travel and people go. Really, you travel? Because I travel a lot for work, but I also enjoy traveling in my own time. Um, I love experience new destinations. I love staying in hotels, resorts, preferably not my own because my family always say, we don't want to stay in one of your hotels because you always pick up this, pick up that. But regardless, I love connecting. Even when I stayed at any hotel, I just love connecting with people. So for me, outside of work, uh, my own leisure time is I love travel, I love great resorts, I love being by the sea. It really clears my head. There's nothing better than you have to go to work for a 10k walk on the beach. So walking's a big part of my life. And we love walking, eating, socializing, visiting family. So unfortunately, no martial arts, no drumming. I love music, I would love to be able to play it, but I cannot. So travel, meeting people, just stepping outside of the business and just relaxing, wearing a pair of uh, shorts, T shirts and thongs. And I can say thongs in Australia if I say that in this part of the world. Otherwise people go, we really don't really want to see you in that. Um, there's nothing better than just taking off the suit. Shorts, T shirts, pair of thongs, wear your cap and sometimes just be anonymous. Right? Because in our business when uh, you engage a lot of people, you know, you go around and people say, hey, Mr. Craig, and where we work together. And sometimes it's not where you work, but where you used to stay and they'd served you in a restaurant. And I think engaging at every level, it doesn't matter how far you move up the ladder. Engaging with people, I think is one of the best things, uh, that I'm lucky enough to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think at this point in your career, you've obviously seen a lot of people start out and they're now in, you know, positions and it's. It's a little bit like your own children. Not quite as much satisfaction, but I know you get satisfaction from seeing people a lot.

Speaker B: And it's like I always say, there's an example is that many, many years ago in my career, and I won't mention the brand, but I went to work for a company that I, uh, that had not a great history of looking after GMs. Bit tough. Yeah. But I thought I must be able to make a difference. Right. So I took the job. And the country, uh, manager would come in with the owner. The owners are flying from overseas and there's a lot of work that goes on. I know when I go into a hotel that I know that when I'm going my team, because, um, I've been, I was a GM for nearly all my career. So, you know, you're going to paint this, you're going to clean up that. You know, you want everything to be right front and back of house. So a lot of effort goes into it. But these people used to walk in the door, go up the stairs into the boardroom. They'd want food in the boardroom. They do the meeting, they do the thing and they'll walk out the door. Never engage with any of their team. And I always said to myself, and this is back early in my career, and I said, I will never do that. Right. Never do that. So I think engaging with the team, um, it's not just about the front of house, it's going in. I always eat in the canteen. Always when we go to visit our hotel, even when we go do our performance reviews or whatever it might be, at least once we were leading the canteen with the team, always. So I have always said that, engage at every level. When you're walking through, say hello to the room attendants, and when you go back, people are genuinely happy to see you because never want to be like, uh, well, here comes corporate office. And it's all very formal. And yes, there is a time and place for it. But my advice, and something that I pride myself on is that you communicate and you engage at every level, uh, rather than just at the top, because we've all started at the bottom. And I always say, never forget where you come from.

Speaker A: That's great advice. On that note, what is possibly the best piece doesn't have to be one piece or two pieces of advice that you've received over your career that you. You now actually pass down to people that you mentor.

Speaker B: Oh. I think what I've just said now is that. Right. Respect is number one. Right. And engage at every level. Every step of the journey, I think is important. Right. So whether you're the room attendant, whether you're the porter, it costs nothing to be polite. Right. Number two, bring people on the journey. Right. Don't work in a silo. You work in a silo, you be 10 steps ahead and you'll look behind. There's no one there with you. So in our business, take people on the journey, communicate. And the more you communicate and the more you bring people on the journey, the more successful you are. I'll give you one more. I am employing people that are better than you. Yes. Right. Uh, never be scared, because we're not good at everything. So if. If where your greatest weakness are, you bring the people along with you that are better in that in. And at the end of the day, it's a team effort. And I think that's. That's the key recipe for success.

Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker B: I love that.

Speaker A: If we look ahead a little bit, I suppose we talk about the industry and technology. Pan Pacific's brand represents very distinct philosophies, from the luxury of Pan Pacific to the deep sustainability, um, and design of Parkour Collection. Is there an emerging trend across the segments that excites you or potentially makes you a little bit nervous?

Speaker B: I think authenticity excites me. And I think for Pan Pacific, we don't have 50 brands, we have three. So we have the ability to be very authentic across our three brands. So that excites me because it's very clear. Right. Um, so for us, look, we're very different. You look at a lot of our competitors, 40, 30, uh, a lot of brands, but for us. So authenticity and having the three brands very clear and defined enables to be authentic. So that excites me. AI really excites me. Now, I know people like a little bit scared about it. Uh, I think it will only enhance the guest experience. And for those of us that, or for those that, um, are in denial that he's here. It's part of the business. If it's not part of your business, get on board. Uh, but I think it's very exciting. And um, yesterday we had a full day. Uh, so as an organization, we've just enabled Claude onto our, uh, whole platform. So we're encouraging all of our leaders to actually embrace AI. So we had uh, our uh, consultant come over from Dubai, spend a whole day with me on Glide and how we're implementing into, into our business. And so we've got our global leadership conference coming up, Kuala Lumpur in the last week of October. And I, uh, spoke to our CTO and said, uh, let's get this guy in for a few hours because I think it'd be great for him to come and speak. So I said, got the date available? He said, yes, that's good, good. Just lock it in and let's talk about the content. He says, great. A little bit too early to talk about the content because the way AI is moving so fast.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Let's connect closer because we'll actually have more up to date information, make sure that we're talking about still relevant. And I was just going, that just blows my mind. Right. To go. That I thought, great answer. But it just gave me the perspective on how fast, uh, AI is moving. And I mean you've been in the it, I mean, technology, right. You know, IT is that sometimes you've got to draw a line in the sand and you go, all right, it's moving so quick, but this is where we're going to land. But at the moment it's not like the way it used to be. So I'm very excited about AI. I'm not worried about taking away jobs in hospitality. I think it will take away those mundane tasks that we do, enable us to focus on what matters. And that's all about the guest journey and the guest experience. I just think AI will just make us, uh, do it better.

Speaker A: Yep. And I think we can draw analogies. I mean, um, uh, you know, you mentioned Whitney. You know, when we went from Whitney to computers, it didn't mean that we reduced headcount necessarily. It just meant that we were able to offer a better, uh, guest experience. We were able to start introducing personalization. And I agree that if we use AI uh appropriately, then those boring, mundane aspects of the role will disappear.

Speaker B: Yes. And I think with AI, it's like you can see it's okay for people to use it and you can start to see, uh, if they're using ChatGPT or there's a Claude because it has the tip. Like some presentations have a certain flavor about them. But yes, it's like anything, you still have to read it, right? Because it's not always right. So if you go and punch in a, um, spreadsheet numbers and you wanted to give some analysis, you can't just push send, right? Um, you need to make sure you read it. Or if you go and write an email and then you want to, you know what the audience is going to be this, just rewrite it for me. You've got to check it right? So you can't make the mistake of just say, right, put it in, push the send button. So it still needs that human element, uh, 100%.

Speaker A: And that's one of the things when I've spoken to a few people where they, they're a little bit anxious because, you know, people like you and I, we've been around long enough to know that when we check the answer that comes out of AI. Hmm. Hm. Hang on a second. That doesn't seem logical. The younger generation don't necessarily question as much, uh, part of the issue. And we could be talking about lawyers, for example, because a lot of the work that a junior lawyer will actually do, the research can be done by AI. But if we don't have people that are juniors now, who have we got to question? We need to have that career trajectory, uh, people at the entry level jobs and, and work their way up. If we cut those jobs completely and you retire and where do we stand? So I think we need to be careful from that point of view that we, you know, we don't remove people obviously from junior roles and people still have an understanding of the fundamentals of the business. Really.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I still believe that, you know, I encouraged to start at the business, get into the business. And uh, I was at our hotel yesterday, one of our hotels, um, Pan Pacific Orchard. Beautiful, uh, one of the world's most beautiful hotels in the world. Stunning. And I was talking to our club lounge manager and she's amazing. And I said, she's done such an incredible job. And I said, what's next for you? And she goes, oh, it's good question. She was with our PNC team the other day and she wants to get exposed to banquets and you know, and then she wants to get into banquet sales and. But she goes, I just want to make sure that my number two is up to speed so I can spend the time. And I just went, wow, I love that about our business is that cross exposure, that willingness to step outside of the comfort zone. And that'll never get replaced by AI. Right. That's always going to be all about people. So I'm, I'm not afraid of AI controlling what we do because the end of the day, we're a people centric business and I think we'll always.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, people want to travel and they. To your point, you know, as you said in your downtime, you love traveling, you love interacting with people and, and the technology is not going to replace that at all. No, I think we're in the right business from that point of view.

Speaker B: I agree, I agree. I think it's just there to enhance and, uh, so it's an exciting time, moving very quick.

Speaker A: If we look ahead then, and we say it's, it's 2036, how do you think the industry might change?

Speaker B: Oh my gosh.

Speaker A: Well, any pointers that, you know, like, do we need to start planning for that or as you said, because it's moving so quickly, you just sort of, you know, buckle yourself in and have the right mindset and away you go.

Speaker B: Well, uh, let me look at it the other way. Let's go back to when I started my career. When you started your career. And look at where we are today.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Not a lot has changed in the fundamentals of hospitality. True. Right. We're still there to welcome, to serve great experiences. We want air con that works. We want a great breakfast. I want a bed that's comfy. I want a great sleep experience. That hasn't changed in over 100 years, probably. Um, and I don't think moving to 2036, I'll be retired anyway. But I don't think that will change. I don't think the funders, fundamentals of hospital hospitality will change how we serve it, how the back end works, how we communicate, the personalization, all those things would change. But I think that's just part of the evolution of hospitality. But the fundamentals I don't believe will change. Right. It's like right now, if I go back years ago and I've worked for all the different brands, you look at your SOPs, they're all the same. We all do the same thing. It's got a different logo on the top, to be honest. And there is some key, uh, fundamentals about each brand. Each brand have their own look and feel and flavor and core values and all those things. But fundamentally we do the same thing.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So I think buckle yourself in, of course. But I think it's about embrace. Right. Continue to embrace you must embrace. You talked about earlier about WI Fi, uh, and all those things we used to charge for WI Fi. And then we're like, oh, my gosh, we're freaking out because how are we going to lose this revenue for newspapers? And then they went online. So the evolution of hospitality has been around, and I think it's just the next part of the journey. Right. It's exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. It is. It's an opportunity for growth.

Speaker B: Um, yes. And whenever. We're never afraid. I mean, we are such a robust industry. Right. So if you look at what happens, global financial cry, oh, a bird flu that's happened over the years. My m. Gosh, we. We just come to work, we pivot, we buckle down and we get on with it. So I think we're pretty robust, uh, industry to be a part of. So I think based on that, whatever gets thrown at us as an industry, we'll still be here the next day.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit of a deep question, but is there, based on, I suppose, the change, is there a hope that you have for that, for our industry? And maybe it's the hope that we always will, uh, continue to be a people industry. Uh, going back to your. One of. One of your core pieces of advice, you know, don't forget where you come from. You know, is there a hope that you have for industry around that?

Speaker B: Yeah, there is the hope that is that we continue to embrace, um, like, I love AI. Right. It's like, it's about recruitment. We need to step outside of the norm and speak to someone that may not be everything you want in paper.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But you talk to them, you're like, wow, you've got the great attitude.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Right. So my hope is that we do not recruit through technology too much, where we still take the time to speak to people. Right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Well, some of the, some of the recruitment decisions that I've made are, uh, for those that have reached out to me. But if I looked at them on paper, Right. You would go, you don't fit the bill. So I always say it costs nothing to have a conversation. And let's make sure that we continue to have conversations in our business. And, uh, it's like, I would rather a quick phone call than five emails because I can actually, in one phone call, I can actually achieve everything I need. But recruiting, let's continue to speak to people, not just always look at the piece of paper because you can get surprised and you find these great gems and you go, wow, you know, I Would never have, uh, recruited you off the piece of paper. But you can, we can train skill. I cannot train personality. Uh, I can't train ambition. But, uh, if they've got the right attitude, I can train the skill.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's so true. I remember once I had, um, I was working for a PMS vendor and I was looking for a salesperson and somebody who was a room attendant applied and, um, you know, as you said, based on paper, not really appropriate. Didn't have any sales experience. But she actually called me and we had a bit of a chat and I said, come in. Hired her today. She runs her own company, um, actually teaching people sales.

Speaker B: What a great story.

Speaker A: Yeah. And similar, there was a chapter I employed out of hotels. He was front office manager. He, uh, now lives in the US he used to run hospitality for Microsoft. As you said, if we look at it from a pure, you know, using technology perspective, those people would have discounted. That's a great hope. I like that, that we, that's my,

Speaker B: that's my big hope is that we continue to engage with people and step outside the norm and find things. Uh, because everyone, we all had opportunity in our career and we, and we still. So I have. My commitment is that I need to give back and I need to continue. What I've been lucky enough to give is that. And get, uh, is to give opportunity.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. On that note, if there's somebody who's, um, looking at a career in hospitality or has just started their career, what advice would you give them?

Speaker B: Oh, wow. Step outside your comfort zone. Yeah. Is very important. Um, and love what you do.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What you do. Right. If you want to be in hospitality, find a way to get your foot in the door. Once you get your foot in the door. Now, it may not be the position you want, but if it gets you in the door, then it's up to you to then prove yourself and then you will be given opportunity. Right. It doesn't get handed to you on a plate. You work for it. But first of all, get your foot in the door, do a great job, uh, and an opportunities come. Never give up.

Speaker A: Yep. Yep. And I love that. Step outside your comfort zone. And you're a classic example, you know, that leap of faith that you took to start your career.

Speaker B: Huh.

Speaker A: You just imagine if you said, oh, no, you know, it sounds difficult. Where you would have been today.

Speaker B: Oh, correct. I still to this day, someone used to. I forget who it was that said do something that scares you every day. Yep. But I always say to all the like our sales leaders, etc, and into the GMs. How many cocktail parties do we go to? Our career? So many. Right. And what do we do when we walk in the door? We look for someone we know. Because, yes, we're all guilty. But I always say go to a group of people you don't know and introduce yourself. Because that scares the hell out of me still today. Right. Because it puts any zone. Um, but I say go and do it, and you'll be surprised who you. Who you can meet and the conversations you can have. And again, it puts you out of your comfort zone. So it doesn't matter. If you're starting your career, put yourself out of your comfort zone. Even right now, in my career, I put myself out in my comfort zone a lot. Yep. We don't know everything. Right. We're excited, but you just got to go in head first, engage the people that can help you, and off you go. And if it scares the hell out of you, I think it's a good thing.

Speaker A: It is a good thing. Uh, Craig, thank you so much for the conversation. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today.

Speaker B: Thanks, Brendan. I've really enjoyed it as well. Great conversation, and thanks for the opportunity. It's great to see you.

Speaker A: Thank you.