
10 MINUTE MARKETER · 2025-12-18 · 17 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
40 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
The episode zeroes in on a single high-impact website change: renaming your call-to-action button from the ubiquitous "Book a free strategy call" to something outcome-focused and differentiating. The host draws parallels to Seth Godin's Purple Cow concept - most websites look identical in their CTAs, making them invisible. Instead, they recommend naming the event after the actual value (e.g., "Lead Gen Newsletter Breakdown" or "4X ROI Ad Strategy Call") or using friction-reducing language like "See If You Qualify." They also detail the S2 framework - a two-step email-to-typeform flow that pre-qualifies leads by asking about pain points, then contextually customizes follow-up questions and the Calendly event name based on responses. Real examples include a bookkeeping service that segments callers by tax stress vs. financial clarity gaps, and a past ad agency that positioned calls around proven 4X ROI outcomes. The combination of better naming, one-question-at-a-time surveys via Typeform, and contextual customization has yielded five times more qualified call bookings in their test cases.
Replace it with outcome-based language tied to your actual value, such as the specific result clients get (e.g., '2X Your Leads Intro Call,' '4X ROI Ad Strategy Call,' or 'Lead Gen Newsletter Breakdown') or use 'See If You Qualify' to make it feel exclusive and lower perceived friction.
Use Typeform with one question at a time instead of a wall of text, lead with 'See If You Qualify,' ask about their biggest pain point first, then use branching logic to customize follow-up questions and the Calendly event name based on their answer - this has yielded five times more qualified calls in testing.
The S2 is a two-step lead capture flow: Step 1 is a simple landing page collecting only email, Step 2 auto-forwards that email to a Typeform where you ask qualifying questions one at a time, then segment prospects into different calendar pages or offers based on their answers.
'Free' signals low value and is expected, so it doesn't differentiate you or motivate action; instead, frame your CTA around outcomes or qualification (e.g., 'See If You Qualify' or 'Learn How We Generate Leads via Newsletter') to imply real value and exclusivity.
After collecting a prospect's pain point via Typeform, customize the Calendly event name and follow-up context to match their specific issue - for example, a bookkeeping service might show 'Tax Clarity Call' to one person and 'Financial Numbers Review Call' to another, making the offer feel personally relevant.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode has one genuinely useful core idea - replacing 'Book a Free Strategy Call' with outcome-named or qualification-framed CTAs - plus a reasonable secondary tactic around contextual Typeform pain-point routing. However, a large portion of the runtime is consumed by a Purple Cow summary and self-promotional filler, diluting the idea-per-minute ratio considerably.
instead of book a free strategy call, since we generate leads via a newsletter, it could be a demo. Learn how we generate leads via newsletter, right? Demo colon lead gen newsletter breakdown
we ask normal questions that you would ask if you were a newsletter... And from there, we wrap sales questions, sales qualifying questions inside that newsletter
The episode leans heavily on Seth Godin's Purple Cow - a book from 2003 - to frame an insight about differentiation, and outcome-based CTA naming is a well-circulated conversion optimisation concept. The 'See If You Qualify' framing and contextual pain-point routing in Typeform are the freshest angles but are not deeply counterintuitive.
one of my favorite books of all time in marketing, or just of all time, is called Purple Cow. It's written by Seth Godin
free isn't doing you anything, right? And so they're looking at, okay, I'm not getting anything of particular value
The two co-hosts are practising agency operators with some real credentials - a sold agency, a 200K newsletter, and live client implementations - but neither is operating at exceptional scale or depth, and there is no external guest bringing independent perspective or seniority.
the tagline that royally changed my life forever, frankly, in my first ad agency before I sold it was we help companies make $4 for every dollar they spend on digital ads
200,000 people read our daily newsletter
There are a handful of concrete numbers - a claimed 5x lift in sales calls from webinar signups, a 4X ROI call name, and 200K newsletter readers - but most examples are hypothetical illustrations (the bookkeeper scenario) or self-reported claims without context, methodology, or verifiable data.
I could book five times as many sales calls from webinar signups when I looked at that conversion rate
we help companies make $4 for every dollar they spend on digital ads. back when Facebook ads was a lot less expensive and we had dozens of clients getting over a 4X ROI, directly attributable, before iOS 14
Both hosts are in near-constant agreement throughout, exchanging affirmations ('100%', 'Man, I love two things about what you're saying') with no meaningful pushback or probing follow-up. The conversation is collaborative but functions more as mutual validation than rigorous interrogation of claims.
Man, I love two things about what you're saying about basically using the process of a survey instead of a form
100% and I'm guessing you've probably seen this a hundred times and you don't take the action
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
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Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Welcome back to another episode of the 10 Minute Marketer. Today we're going to be breaking down why you need to change one specific button on your website. Everyone has this button on their website, so I'm making the assumption that you have it because everyone does. I can all but guarantee you have it saying this particular thing.
So let's dive into why you need to change this one particular button on your website to get more booked calls and convert more of the people who land on your website to do anything you want them to do, whether it's fill out a form, book a call, buy your product, whatever it might be. Marketing is about values. Nike didn't call me and sell me this in a catalog. I bought this swoosh because it's ingrained in my soul.
When you have a product that really resonates with customers, the word of mouth grows like wildfire. I am curious to hear, what is this phrasing? What's the wording? What is this button saying on all of our websites that's keeping us from converting more visitors into actual paying customers and clients, man?
Well, one of my favorite books of all time in marketing, or just of all time, is called Purple Cow. It's written by Seth Godin and it basically says you need to stand out. And I tell clients this. I tell my team this all the time.
Don't go looking at your competitors or similar businesses for inspiration, whether it's ad creative, whether it's your website taglines, whether it's anything. Do not go and look at your competitors or at anyone else's because the whole point is you don't want to mimic them, even if they're a bigger company, right? You want to seem the opposite of them or you want to seem different than them in some way, shape, or form, better, faster, stronger, less expensive, whatever it is.
You want to be different from everyone else. And Seth Godin in this book called Purple Cow explains how if you just got off an airplane and you drove through cow pasture on the way to visit your family, when you showed up, if there was just normal cows there, they would say, how was the drive-in? And you'd say it was good, right? But if there was a purple cow in a sea of a bunch of normal colored cows or normal cows, then you'd be like, the drive-in was good, but there was this like, there was this purple cow.
And he says that is remarkable. The term that he uses over and over and over again in that book is remarkable. It's worthy of making a mark about. And what I'm about to break down or we're about to talk through is not necessarily so remarkable, but it just, I want to lay the groundwork and the foundation that every single person who puts this tagline on their website or in their ads or on their landing pages is looking like everyone else.
and normally when you see this thing, you don't do it. My guess is if you're listening, you've seen this thing a hundred times. Yeah. Just like when you're driving through the country and you've seen tons and tons of cows, the one that was the biggest or the one that was maybe the strongest or one that was running faster than the others, it wasn't worthy of your remarks.
It wasn't actually remarkable. It was just slightly different, right? Maybe it was the biggest or the best or the strongest cow out there, right? However, ranchers are going to determine the value of that cow, but it wasn't noteworthy.
It wasn't so different that it stood out and was worth being not only a story, but the first thing that you said out of your mouth when you got to your friend's house that you were driving across the country to, right? 100% and I'm guessing you've probably seen this a hundred times and you don't take the action so why do you do it because we been trained not to take an action on this thing yet you probably use it yourself What am I talking about Let reveal it Book a free strategy session Excuse me for those that are listening, not on YouTube.
That is gross. Book a free strategy session. Every B2B website, especially for service providers, even accountants, marketers, book a free strategy session. that does not tell me what we're actually going to be doing on the call.
That doesn't tell me the value of the call. That doesn't tell me anything other than you are desperate to give away free strategy, which is basically just strategy wrapped in a sales pitch. Period. End of story.
There's a handful of other things you can do, right? First of all, the easiest thing is just to name the event. So instead of maybe I'm just thinking like for my own marketing services, right? Instead of book a free strategy call, since we generate leads via a newsletter, it could be a demo.
Learn how we generate leads via newsletter, right? Demo colon lead gen newsletter breakdown, right? I'm going to explain to you how it works. A lot of people don't know how to generate leads via newsletter.
I could also say, I could also name it something completely different, not necessarily demo, but I could call it a 2X your leads intro call. Like again, outcome. I want to 2X my leads. I want quality leads.
I want more. If I show up to this call, well, it's called 2X my leads intro call or 2X my leads explanation or 2X my leads, whatever you want to call it. That is another way to think about it. Renaming it based on the outcome of your product or service, right?
The other way. You've talked about that in headline copy before. And I think you've been rubbing off on me, man, because I do my own version of the S2 behind a lot of my lead magnets where people, the survey after they sign up for whatever content offer ends with a question of, do you want to, basically, do you want to book a free strategy call? But I don't use that language, right?
And you're so right. It's just here, there, and everywhere. We see it everywhere, like cows in the countryside. But the reason I started offering webinars as a service at demand shift was because I found that by implementing the S2, I could book five times as many sales calls from webinar signups when I looked at that conversion rate.
So my question is, would you like to learn about a framework that helps B2B companies book five times more sales calls with this webinar funnel? So I love leading with the outcome. Even if you don't have it perfectly named, talking about the outcome is going to get you five steps ahead. Yeah.
And I think this is kind of a pro tip on an episode we did a long time ago where I explained how with one of my clients, there's like three main core issues that most people are facing when they decide to work with one of my clients. They normally have one of those three. And so in the type form qualification where it's like, see if you are a good fit to work with us, we ask now, what's your biggest pain point out of these three? Based on their answer, we then contextually change the question, are you open to a call based on their answer?
So let's just say it's a bookkeeping service and you are late on your taxes. That could be one issue. Like you're stressed about being late on your taxes. The second one is that you don't have a bookkeeper and you don't know your numbers.
So the second one would be you don't know your numbers, right? If we would say, what's your biggest concern right now? What's your biggest challenge right now? And you would say, I don't know my numbers.
We would then send them to a question inside of type form that says we've helped hundreds of entrepreneurs get clarity on their numbers and actually lower their tax bill as a result of it or make better business decisions on when to hire people and when to do inventory and whatever as a result of knowing their numbers, would you be interested in learning how we can clean that up for you and give you a weekly update with all of your numbers exactly as they are right And so we been able to drastically increase the amount of leads book because we changing it contextually to their biggest pain point Like we collecting the data and then reselling them back on the data But what you brought up and kind of the example I just gave is I think the other big, almost better in most cases, option to saying book a free strategy call as a button on your website or as a call to action on your website, on your contact us page, which is just see if you qualify.
right because then you can collect information in a way that is not like a wall of text i hate when i go to a website and it's like book a call but before i have to book a call it's like i have to answer six things right type form one question at a time but it's also more of a fun inquisitive game like do i qualify to work with these guys to get this result that i want yeah right and so So I like literally this happened last week. We use the S2 and the type form for one of our clients.
They were getting so many qualified leads through it. And the leads were better because they collected more information that they said, can we put an iframe of the S2 onto our website, on our contact us page? because the pre-selling and the angles of asking what's your biggest pain point, updating the questions, would you be open to a call to those pain points? And a couple of the other kind of secret saucy things we do in that help them close more, but also gather more information.
Or if they don't book a call immediately after, their team can call them. And because it's under the context of see if I qualify, even though they might not be qualified, their team can call them and sell them something else or anything else. So do not put free strategy call on your website, rename it something sexy, rename it something cool. As you know, if you've listened to this show and if you haven't go ahead and click like and subscribe.
But as you know, if you've listened to the show, the tagline that royally changed my life forever, frankly, in my first ad agency before I sold it was we help companies make $4 for every dollar they spend on digital ads. back when Facebook ads was a lot less expensive and we had dozens of clients getting over a 4X ROI, directly attributable, before iOS 14 and everything else. I changed the name of the event in calendar, like the event calendar page on the page that I would send people to book.
I changed it to 4X ROI ad strategy call. Now, it's similar to free strategy call, but again, I'm speaking in outcomes. I'm speaking in, if you get on this call, I'm going to explain to you how you might be able to get to 4X. And if we work together, there's a decent chance that we'd get there.
Man, I love two things about what you're saying about basically using the process of a survey instead of a form. Because a survey, if you use Typeform or any other tool that gives you one question at a time. Well, let me back up. the problem I see this solving and why these two things are important is that every marketer I talk to has basically two goals.
You know, just like a five-year-old has one goal, like Jerry Seinfeld says in that one bid, get candy. That is their goal. Marketers have one goal. It's get leads, right?
And if they are getting leads, the second thing is they need to get higher quality leads because maybe they're getting leads, but they're not the right fit or they're not qualified or sales team is saying these aren't really the best fit, right? So how can you do both of those? By replacing book a free strategy call with see if you qualify, you can make it a better experience for the user. Because like you said, if they see this dropdown, it's like, you're giving away quote unquote free strategy, which is kind of like saying a free webinar or a free ebook.
Like everybody expects it to be free. So free isn't doing you anything, right? And so they're looking at, okay, I'm not getting anything of particular value. And you're asking me to ask, answer a bunch of questions.
No, thank you. Right. But by displaying it one at a time and two by preempting it by saying see if you qualify it all of a sudden a ton more palatable palatable And now if you combine that with I seeing if I qualify and this feels easier because I'm taking one question at a time. And at the end of this, I know what sort of value I'm getting.
I'm getting the chance to learn about a service or a product that can help me with this outcome. Man, all of a sudden, like just look at human nature. You are going to be more motivated to complete that process. And the bonus fourth point is that all the people who aren't qualified, you now have more data on them of, do I even want to keep them in my CRM?
Do I downsell them? What can I do with that information? And what sort of arbitrage do I have there? So yeah, I really love this.
You know, I'm a big fan of the S2 and how that works behind any sort of content offer, whether that's a newsletter signup or a webinar registration. But I think the elements that you and I have been using there are helpful for folks, even if it's just straight, a direct call to action, because let's face it, no one gets 100% conversion on that either. Right? 100% for those of you that are new to the show for context with well first of all if you're new to the show like and subscribe below but if you're new to the show you don't know what the s2 is as we've said many times so forgive us if you're if you're new or if you're not new but basically we send all of our meta ads traffic at the portfolio of marketing max businesses that we have over here.
We send all of the traffic to a simple landing page that just collects their email. The moment we collect their email, we immediately forward them to a type form and we use some trickery inside of the landing page tool that we use to auto send the email captured over to type form so people don't have to re-enter their email. But then we ask normal questions that you would ask if you were a newsletter, because we're a newsletter, 200,000 people read our daily newsletter. We ask normal questions to better get to know our audience.
And from there, we wrap sales questions, sales qualifying questions inside that newsletter, or sorry, inside that type form, and we can push them different directions. So if they're a small business, we can push them to one offer. If they're a larger business, we can push them to one offer. If they need leads, we can push them to one offer.
And even if you have the same salesperson, or even if you're the salesperson at your company, just knowing the ending and being able to customize the Calendly page event name that you that you drop them off on, mapping that back to what they say their issue is or the industry that they're in or whatever will drastically increase the calls booked. Anything else to wrap up? I think that's great, man. I've already thinking about a few clients of mine where we could implement some tweaks here.
I've already kind of pushed them on the outcome, selling the value of the meeting, but we haven't tried. Actually, I've got one client where we've actually got this set up now as a CTA in their webinar where we're going to say, see if you qualify. And I'm really curious to see what the conversion rate is and how many qualified leads he gets doing this. So we're not just talking about this stuff, you guys.
We are actually implementing that in both of our agencies between Max and I. So if you're not yet subscribed, hit subscribe if you're on YouTube or follow on Apple or Spotify. And you'll get more of this of where we're talking about these tactics, but we're actually implementing them and reporting back to you here as a viewer and listener. So thanks for joining us.
Max, this was a good one, man. Thanks so much. See you guys next week. Thanks for listening to the Marketing Max show.
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