He Sold His Dental Practice in 81 Days. The High Lasted One Week | Dr. Michael Filosi

Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more@accenture.com Spotify hey, everybody, and welcome to your next.

Speaker B: I'm your host, Jerome, and we have traveled across the world. I've got Dr. Michael Filosi with me today. Good day, mate.

Speaker C: How you going, Jerome? You nailed that. That's very good. So, yeah, I hear you've been practicing. So right off the top, you got to get a right. So, uh, uh, yeah. Well done.

Speaker B: So you're in Australia.

Speaker C: I am. Adelaide, Australia. So for those listening, yeah, that's where the accent is from. So, uh, yeah, South Australia, specifically. That's the state. So, yeah, I'm in Adelaide and, um, sort of, I think a population of 1.7 million people in Australia down under. That's right. All the. Throw another shrimp on the barbie, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's, uh, that's it. That's where I'm from.

Speaker B: I love it, man. So the world is such a small place because of the Internet, right. We got to connect on LinkedIn, and, um, when I started reading your story, I couldn't believe it. Right. So, as always, people who come on the show, I start out with. So you had an exit.

Speaker C: I did, man. And I love that intro, by the way. That's a cool way to get things kicked off. So you're right, I did have an exit. So I'm a dentist by profession. Ten years ago, I bought a very rundown practice which literally had possums in the walls that nobody thought had a future. Thought I was crazy buying it. Ten years later. Last year, I sold it, and I sold it as the biggest dental practice in Adelaide, in my city of Adelaide. So I went from worst to first. Um, and in that time, obviously, a fair bit happens, right? So. But I was off the tools by the end. I was just focusing on being. Went from being a dentist to being the CEO of the organization and running the organization. And, yeah, last year, I sold to private equity. That's, uh, 11 months ago. So, yeah, I exited last year.

Speaker B: So how. What gave you the courage? Because everybody told you you're crazy. What gave you the courage to make the purchase? Because, I mean, you had, I think, you probably had to risk everything to do that deal.

Speaker C: Yeah, look, it's interesting, man. Like, my, my approach to risk is, right. Like, I'm like a boa constrictor. So, like, that's my spirit animal. So, like, I squeeze the risk out of something and then I'll go and do it, you know, so I'm not a, uh, risk taker, but I, I thought I could do it. Like, I, I think about it in terms of, Right. Like, I look at trapeze artists, and that, to me, looks risky. I'm like, they're up there, it's high, but they've trained all day for it. You know, they've got their partner who they're doing it with. It's not just some random there. They've got a net. So what looks risky to me is safe to them. And it's the same thing with this. I could see how it could work. I didn't realize it would quite get to the size that we did. But I was really confident, you know, that I knew what it needed to be done. I had really sound bones. It was a busy practice. I needed some youthful energy, I guess. So I think that other people kind of, you know, they didn't see what it could become. They just saw the superficial elements of it and thought that looked a bit run down without realizing the bones of it were really good. You know, there was a fair bit to work with. It just needed a bit of money for it, I guess, to bring it up to speed, and then everyone else jumps on board.

Speaker B: Wow. So were there specific risks that you were able to get out of the business so that you wouldn't, um, be in a position where, you know, you actually risked everything?

Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think I didn't have to risk because it was run down. The buying cost wasn't huge. Right. So I didn't have to, you know, bet an enormous amount on it. The, my. The price to buy into the practice was not huge because I just wasn't getting much. Right. But the price of, like, doing it up was enormous. Right. But then I got to see the benefits of that. So the actual buy in price was okay, but then it was like, obviously, you know, every time we ended up buying next store and turning that into a car park and doing two big renovations and things. So they were all enormous costs. But we had proof of concept, right? Like, it was working, you know, and we're busy and so we're making money, you know, most months. So I could see it working, you know, and you just kind of keep going down that pathway and you go, well, you know, okay, we'll do another two dental chairs. We went from two dental chairs initially to 10 when I sold. You went two, then got, we went in increments of two, two to four, four to six, six to eight and then eight to 10. And that was when I sold.

Speaker B: Wow. And you weren't in a chair or on a chair anymore? No, at that point.

Speaker C: So a couple of years from the end, I got off the tools completely and I was just managing, uh, the business, so overseeing the business, mentoring staff, mentoring the dentists, all those sorts of things. So, you know, I was no longer a wet finger dentist as the saying goes. I'd completely transition to being a true business owner. So I'd left the dental part of it aside. I was still registered, still insured, all those things. But I, uh, I didn't have a list of patients. I didn't come into work and then be sitting in the surgery. I was across the hallway in my office looking at spreadsheets.

Speaker B: Most dentists and doctors aren't able to do that. Yeah, they don't get that training when they're going through school. How did you make that transition?

Speaker C: Totally. And you bang on like, I think a lot of professionals, dentists, doctors, lawyers, they all, you know, they, they, they want to stick to the technical aspect of it. So for me, uh, you know, I was a serviceable dentist, but there were people who could do it better than what I could, um, from a technical aspect. Whereas I realized I wasn't going to be the best dentist in my city, but I thought I could have a really red hot crack at having the best dental practice. And the penny dropped for me of like, there's people who've got better hands than me. I'm like, I'm just not going to get past a certain stage. Whereas I thought, I reckon I can have a crack at being the best business owner. So for those watching, um, on the video, like, I'm six foot six, I'm a big guy, but I read my heightened business books. So those books behind you, you can see they're all business and leadership books. And I was just intent on getting better at this thing called business. So you don't learn anything about business at dental school, right, or law school or anything else. You got to upskill yourself yourself, you know. And I was like, well, if I'm going to do this thing called business, I better get better at it. If I'm going to get good at it, I've got to, you Know, it's like any skill, you've got to learn it. So I committed to getting better, committed to learning, you know, read 100 odd books and podcasts and things and just started applying it and iterating fast and know what works. You know, if you touch a hot pan, you don't do it again. And if you something works, you keep doing it, basically. So I enjoyed that challenge more than I did the mechanical challenge with. With patients and, and teeth.

Speaker B: How did you know you had something? Like, there's an initial jump in and then there's the delusion, right? But then, yeah, there's that moment where you're like, we got it.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a really good question. Look, I don't mean to say, like, it's going to sound. There were heaps of challenges, right? So for anyone listening, if you're thinking, oh, look, this guy just got, you know, kissed on the bum and everything went perfectly, that's not it. But I always felt like we were winning, right? And I think, you know, like, you know, your success leaves clues and, you know, patience, what I was trying to do, it was resonating with them. You could see that they were like, they were, you know, we were growing as a practice and we're getting busier and busier and busier. So the whole thing felt like winning. Like, I was enjoying it until I wasn't, but I was enjoying it the whole way along there. And it was, it was really nourishing my soul to see this thing grow and give it your heart and soul and grow into it. But, you know, like, I think that, you know, it came from a low base and what I was trying to do was resonating with people. So it felt. Felt easy in the sense of, like, I knew I was on the right track, right? I was like, this thing seems to be work. I'm getting the feedback and people are booking back in. So, you know, thankfully there wasn't a long period where I was crapping myself or not sure what to do is like, I was getting feedback and going, this is working. People seem to like me. People seem to like how I want to do this. Which is the reason I bought. Bought a practice. I was like, I've got a vision for how it could work. I need to live and die by my own sword. I need to find out if that resonates. And it did. And, you know, it kept growing and growing. And you think, well, you know, I'm going to keep doubling down on that and keep, keep investing in that and keep growing. It, and, um, yeah, so that's kind of, that's, that's the, that's how I went about it, I guess. Just sort of follow your nose a bit and follow curious threads and, and if it works, keep doing it. And, and you know, I'm a very, very hard worker. Like, I like hard work. So what, you know, I, I, I was all in. You know, all my chips were on the table and I just did the very best I could.

Speaker B: Did you? Well, I think a lot of people working for others were like, oh, man, we could do it this way, it would be so much better. Um, and it sounds like that was a bit of what you thought you had a vision on what it could be. What was different about your vision than what you saw in the traditional practice?

Speaker C: Totally. So, uh, it's a really good question. And you're right, I did kind of think, look, I want to give this a crack on my, uh, I think I've got a vision for how it could work. So my view is there's a lot of dental business coaches that they want to try and sell patients stuff. It's about a lot of sales and it's a lot of that sort of thing. Whereas my view was people are clever. They can tell if you care and they can tell if you don't. So just do the right thing by them and they will come back. Don't try and hit them up for stuff they don't need. Small fish are sweet. Do the right thing, do the work that needs doing, but build the trust and they will tell their friends, leave nice online reviews and things like that. So I kind of did the exact opposite of what all the dental business coaches tell you to do. So when I was zigged, I zagged and I was like, you know what? I'm not going to do all those things and all those things you're supposed to do, I'm doing the opposite. And I think, you know, people buy from people and, and, you know, we were very authentic. When other dental websites, I noticed, you know, they all say, you know, Dr. Michael Feloci has got a degree in dentistry. Well, of course I do. I'm a dentist. Like, you don't need to say that. Like, it's kind of like stating the obvious, right? So even things like online, we switched all our bios. I was like, let's make them interesting. Everyone knows we know teeth, right? Like, you know, we know that. Let's talk about ourselves because, let's say, uh, you know, some of those things we started to do and, and made that more interesting. And it resonated with people. Like, I had a patient come and see me, because on there I said that, you know, that my ideal weekend is reading the newspapers and eating my wife's homemade muesli. And it was a doctor patient. He's like, that's really cool. Like, I get a sense of who you are about it, rather than just the interest in teeth. So we still had that stuff too, and we took what we did very, very seriously. But I think that point of differentiation of, you know, of not trying to, you know, of course we're dentists and we're clever. We've got the degrees and things, but showing people who we were, that seemed to resonate. And that authenticity, I think people could pick up on. They're like, yeah, cool. These are the sorts of people I want to do business with. These are the sorts of people want to be looking after my teeth. And. And, yeah, I think people are really clever. They can tell if you're trying to look after them, and they can tell if you're trying to rip them off. So it's really easy. Do the right thing by people. And 999 times out of a thousand, they're going to be happy, they're going to come back, they're going to tell their friends and family.

Speaker B: Yeah, this is interesting. I think the best compliment I got last week when I was speaking in New York was somebody came up and said, you are so authentic, and I really appreciate that. And so to be able to translate that through the website and interactions with the patients, I think it creates, uh, this ecosystem. And, you know, before AI wasn't as prevalent 12 months ago as it is today. Right. But people are seeking real.

Speaker C: Right, they're seeking more than ever, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, so this is fascinating, man. You, you had the success, uh, you, you built it, you grew it. And did you have the belief that once you got to the liquidity event that all your problems would be solved and, like, things were going to be good?

Speaker C: Yeah, look, so I think we all do to a certain extent. So, uh, my decision to sell came on very quickly. Like, I was really, really enjoying it until I wasn't. And all of a sudden, the cost is enormous. Right? But the cost is enormous as you're doing it.

Speaker B: The.

Speaker C: The personal cost, because you're investing so much of yourself into it. Right. Your heart is on the line. And all of a sudden I just stopped enjoying it. And I got really granular with it of, like, you know, why do you do Anything. And I wrote a list of, you know, you do things because it's good for you, like eating vegetables. You do things because you enjoy it. You do things as a gift to others. And I couldn't tick anything on it. So that's kind of what brought it about. So was I prepared for the sale? Look, it's interesting. I, I went against everything that you're supposed to do. Like I didn't have anything to exit to, so I didn't know what was on the other side. And I knew I didn't know what was on the other side. What, which is what they tell you you're supposed to know before you do it. Right. The other thing was by the end of it, I couldn't wait to get out. When I was ready to go, um, I was so ready to go. And so I wasn't just sort of like marching towards the exit, I was like running full throttle and hurling myself out the door with no idea what to do on the other side, you know, So I didn't have a plan.

Speaker B: I just wanted to get so sad on getting out. Like I just. Did you get out? Like, no, no, look.

Speaker C: Yeah, no. Cool. So, so basically I was really enjoying it and last year was a really rough year and it just sapped the joy out of it. Like we had a couple of rogue team members and, and the whole thing just stopped being fun. Like all of a sudden it was just like, this is now just hard work, this is now just a slog. So beforehand the, the joy level was super high, but there was the cost there too, but the joy, because it was, you know, it was always just a bit more. Right. And then when you lose that joy, all you're left with is the cost. And I'm like, this is taking an enormous cost to me, you know, like I, I, if I, there's no joy here, then this, it's just not worth doing, you know, so that sort of. And I realized when I decided I wanted to be done with it, it was like I couldn't wait to be done, you know. So it was 81 days between me emailing my accountant to say, hey, I think I want to sell and the sale date. So in between that time we source buyers. Yeah, I know that's, I can see him look in your face. Yeah, that's what, less than fast, 100%. And I didn't have anyone on the hook. No bias. In that time, I sourced the buyers myself. They flew in, showed them through information memorandum, negotiated, um, non binding indicative offer. They've Got to do their due diligence, the whole lot and then to sales the 81 days. So that's warp speed. Right. And I was pushing it. I wanted to be faster. I just was done with it. I just wanted to get on with my life. And yeah, hence you know the find out what's next the name of your podcast there, you know, so. But I knew that I realized I didn't want, you know, the next decade. I kind of cast my mind forward and I realized I didn't uh. The next decade. I didn't want it to keep going. Like it was basically, you know and I was like, I think I, yeah, I'm ready for it wasn't part of my plans. I thought I'd be doing it for another 20 years. You know, I'm only 42. I sold at 41. And I just. But. But it was compellingly the right thing to do. You know, as soon as I realized it was right, there was no umming and arring. It's like this has got to happen. Let's do it.

Speaker B: So the first buyer closed.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. So I had four. I knew who they were like so all large corp, like private equity backed firms. So I had them all come through. I had four of them come through. One of them was in a bad. They were just like, they just merged with another and they said look, we really like it but it's going to take us several months to get an offering. I said oh, it's going to be gone by then. So three others all put in offers and um, yeah, like the, the one I negotiated, the one that I thought was gonna be the best set of hands to look after it, take it over and um, yeah, it closed. That was it. So um, yeah, that was uh.

Speaker B: Did you pick on highest price?

Speaker C: No, I actually didn't. No. So um, I ended up um. They were all very closely banded so there was not. They're all within 5% of each other. But no, I didn't. There was actually one that was higher that I didn't take. And um, I just, you know, I just didn't feel, I didn't feel that were the right people to take it over there. And I think I would have got a. I knew the team wouldn't be thrilled with that. And you've got to think for yourself as an owner, you know, like I can't make decision just based on the team but at the same time there, you know, it wasn't an enormous amount of difference. I mean it's still a lot of money. Right. Uh, like all these. It's not a tiny amount of money, you know, like, it's, it's a, you know, it's, it's, it's not, it's not, you know, pocket change. But I went with the ones as well that I thought were going to get it across the line. And also I knew they were gonna, they could close deals, right? So it's one thing to get the number and the offer, but then it's like, you know, can you get to settlement? And the group I went with, I knew that they could get to settlement. I knew that they were going to be ones that had the proven track record of doing that. So ultimately, you know, until the money hits your bank, it's not worth anything. And I knew that. Um, yeah, so I didn't take the top offer. But the group I went with, I was very happy to sell to them. And I thought they were the best, best group. And, and as I said, I had the confidence in them that they were going to be able to close the deal.

Speaker B: So, clean deal. So walk out, day one. No. Earn out. No.

Speaker C: Correct. Yep, that's right. So it was walk in, walk out. And I made that really clear when I sold to say, look. Yeah, I don't want to. I, you know, I sort of said to them, I said, look, because I'd shown them a video, right, of, like, how the practice used to look and how it was at the end. And I said, the type of person who can do this is not the type of person you want sticking around either. Like, you want me gone. You want clean air, you want to be able to, you know, start things, like, your way. You don't want the big guy still there. So I said, I don't want to be here, and you don't want me here either. And my billings as a dentist are only 0.6% of the revenue. So it was a rounding error. They didn't, you know, the business didn't rely on me. It was a turnkey solution. So I made that really clear. I was, you know, I'm someone who's either all in or all out. I don't like to kind of be half pregnant, right? So I was like, look, you know, when I sell, that's it. It's yours. Run it however you want. But I'm not, I'm not sticking around. And all, um, offers needed to be subject to that, basically, so that I made that clear from the start.

Speaker B: So the wire hits, or did you get a check? I'm silly.

Speaker C: I get checks yeah, the white. So I was. We got that. It landed in the bank account. So all day that day, I was at a course and I was actually, you know, you're checking your bank account, like, constantly there. But it was that evening it landed, and I actually called them up to check. It was all, yeah, yeah, Michael, we've just, you know, it's a lot of money. We've got a. It's a bit harder. It's not just. They can't just transfer it, you know, so. But I was having a burger into my street, so I had, like, mayonnaise dripping down my hands. I was there with my wife. And, um. And then, you know, like, checking, checking, checking. And I was like, there it is. Like, it's. That's it. It's. It's done, you know. So, yeah, it was quite funny. Um. Yeah, literally, yeah. The mayor running down my hands with this big beast of a burger and, like, checking the account, my phone and being like, yep, it's. It landed. It's done. So that's a pretty cool feeling.

Speaker B: You're eating a burger and you just got more money than you've ever had and you're celebrating with a burger.

Speaker C: That's right. Absolutely. I'm a man of simple pleasures. So, uh, Yeah, I. I'm, uh. I'm a simple guy. Jerome. I, uh. Yeah, so that was. The burger was. Was where we're at. But, yeah, that's. Yeah, it was, uh. I was. Yeah, I had literally, yeah, mayonnaise and sauce running down my hand. When was it? Wagyu.

Speaker B: Was it Australian? Wagyu.

Speaker C: Now I'm trying to think now. What was it? I'm not even sure. I think it was. It was a beef burger of some sort. But it wasn't like a fancy, fancy burger. It was just like a. It was a nice burger. Right. But it wasn't, um. You know, it wasn't crazy, silly. It was just like. I just needed a bite to eat with my wife. So we. We went there. I think we've just been in our daughter's school for something. And then. Yeah, that just happened to be the place where we were when the. Yeah. You know, I think we had a nicer dinner after that. But, um. Yeah, that was when. When the money hits the account. That's what I was doing.

Speaker B: How'd you feel?

Speaker C: Good. Relieved, you know, like, it's interesting. Right, so there's a moment in, um, In Shawshank Redemption, when Andrew, uh, Dufresne, when he gets out of that tunnel, and he just kind of like, throws his arms in the air and it's raining, and he's like, I've done it. I. I felt like that, right? Like, it felt like I'd escaped. It felt like I just threaded the needle. And I felt pretty euphoric, to be honest, you know, so it's a pretty amazing feeling. Um, yeah, when it. When it actually lands and you go, I did it. Like, that's it. Like, um, I'm out. I, uh. So it's definitely. It's a pretty amazing feeling, you know? Like, I think when you see the first offer came through, that was even more surreal. So. Because you work so hard at something and then, you know, you put it out, and then when you see the first offer comes through and you're like. Because you think it's worth something, right? But you're not sure until someone. And then when you see that. I remember just having to go for a walk and being like, wow, like, this is now real, you know, like, someone is paying me money for this thing, you know? Um, and then there were two more offers to come after that as well, but just that first one, which kind of sets the baseline for, like, where it's going to be at. And it's like, you know, like, this is. Yeah, this is happening, you know, and it's. You know, they're not trying to lowball. They're not trying to, you know, come in at unders. So, uh, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker B: Wow. Okay. And so how long did it last?

Speaker C: Yeah, look, a week, I think. A week. And then you. You know, like, I think that there are massive challenges on the other side, you know, like, that's the thing. And I'd spend a lot of time, you know, I'd kind of prepped for it, right? And I still fell in plenty of potholes, you know, So I. I was aware of the loss of identity that some people find, and thankfully, I avoided that. You know, I was proactive with having social circles to hang out with people. Um, and I was also aware that a lot of people jumped straight back into another business, you know, So I knew about all these things, right? All these things that you know about in your world because you're dealing with every day. But I'd read a lot of white papers and then listen to podcasts and what to avoid. And I also knew that people quite often lose the capital, right? So they get this money and then they do stupid things with it. So for me, it was like, just whack it in a term deposit. Don't touch the thing for like 612 months and figure out what you're going to do, but resist the urge to get, you know, to get restless and. And do something with it. So those things I avoided. But then, you know, it's interesting because you. You try so hard at something and then you try and figure out what you're going to do next, you know, and you kind of. It's really odd because I'm a. You know, I'm a pretty passionate guy. And it's funny, actually. It's really good timing we're doing this because literally, I reckon it's been the last two or three weeks. I've just started to get a bit of traction and start to go. I think I can see a path here now. You know, like, I can kind of see it because before that there was nothing. You throw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. You're, like throwing and trying to figure out if it's. You're like, nah, that's not sticking. And you're so used to. I knew what I was doing every day before I go to work. I knew exactly what I was doing. And it works. And you chip away a bit further. Whereas now I'll go try this. And you're like, I really thought I'd like that. But you don't. You go do this. Oh, no. And it sucks because you're like, man, what am I gonna do? Like, I just. Nothing seems to be resonating. Right. So it took a long time to try and figure out what to do next. And it's literally only been the last three weeks or so that things have started to start to resonate with me and I've started to kind of put one foot in the other and start to see a bit of a path forward here and get a bit of traction with what the next steps might look like. After 11 months of sort of a bit like a cork in the ocean, you know, you're kind of at the mercy of the waves and things like that there. And I never kind of lost up and down. I kind of wasn't that far off, but I didn't have any clear direction or sense of what to do next. Whereas the last few weeks, it's just started to go. I think I'm kind of a bit clearer on the direction I might push out in and what that might look like. But, yeah, it's a strange, strange feeling, uh, to be in, that's for sure.

Speaker B: Wow, this is exciting. So the filling lasted a week for you? Yes, but, I mean, you've been out for almost a year. What did you do to deal with the filling? Did you just bury it? Like how did you walk?

Speaker C: So it's really interesting, right? So some people, you know, again trying to listen to what people who have been in similar situations have had happen before. Some find their life goes out of control a bit. So their health goes really bad or they start drinking a lot or drugs or their relationships all get out of control. So I've aware of all those things. Mine was the opposite. Mine went into control. So I was already a fit guy. But I started exercising two, three, four times a day. Right. And I'd have arguments with chat GPT about why I don't look like Superman yet. You know, it was like I just went and my diet got even more and more spartan and more and more healthy. And so instead of kind of like breaking the shackles and going crazy, it actually went the opposite way where everything got bolted down. And I found the lack of achievement through work. Suddenly it was. I was getting that through exercise. Right? And just. But not just a little bit, but it would be like multiple times a day to excess. And so that, that's kind of where I, I guess I, I kind of needed a sense of control maybe. I guess just sort of not having that sense of control in the broader life of what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. I think at least I knew if I go and exercise one, I feel like I've achieved something. But to have um, a sense of control over that and a sense of pushing through hard things and actually arriving at the other end. So it's been an interesting kind of journey of doing again, not for the first time in my life but the opposite of what seems to happen to everyone else. Everyone else eats too much and drinks too much. And I've actually kind of done the opposite of like. Yeah, just so it's sort of. That's kind of where I pushed myself I suppose. Yeah.

Speaker B: You've gone through this process yourself. Um, and self educated. What maybe been the most interesting concept you've come across or most helpful, uh, idea that you've picked up along the way that's made this bearable because you don't seem like you've blown it up. Like there doesn't seem to be a collateral damage. But you were worried about that. You were aware that it was a possibility. 100 but uh, it seems like there may have been tools or tactics outside of having something like working out to take out your stress to help you move through this.

Speaker C: I think you need we're talking off air about it. I'm a bit of a lone wolf in the sense of. I tend to do things alone, you know, so. But I think you need some sense of support or something. So for me, it was the books and the podcasts, excuse me, and things to try and get a sense of. But if not, you need a coach or you need a group to help you support you through those things because it is challenging. And I'm glad I at least had something to try and channel that energy and channel that direction and try. And I read a lot of books on founders who'd exited and what they did next and how they approached it. So I tried to get a sense of learning from others, I guess. And like you said, I avoided those big things. I knew a lot of people's relationships, but blow up straight up because they get that sense of the arrival fallacy, right? They're like, okay, I've sold now all my worries should go away. And they're like, I'm still sad. Why is that? And they're like, oh, hang on, it's my relationship with my wife or something. So I'd heard, read about all these things, and I was aware of them, and as I said, I was able to avoid a few of those, but I still fell into other pitfalls and things. And, and, and it's been. Look, it's, it's. I'm so happy that I sold, don't get me wrong. But there's definitely challenges there that you face, and I think that you need to find something you can lean against to help you through that and help you plot your path forward, because it's not easy to navigate. So I think to those listening, you need something. You need a coach, you need a mentor, you need a group of other people and colleagues doing it. You need something that you can kind of bounce ideas off of that is in a similar situation, um, or has the benefit of having done it before. Definitely.

Speaker B: It's fascinating that as a lone wolf, to hear you say that, it. It warms my soul because I think specifically for men. So often we decide that we're going to do it on our own by ourselves. I'm really smart, I'm really successful. I can figure it out. It can't be that complicated. And always just feelings, right? Like, you minimize it and then you actually get in it and you're in the quicksand, you're in the mud, and you're like, I don't know. But yeah, you know, I can force it. I can do It.

Speaker C: I can totally.

Speaker B: Sometimes the forcing, it just puts you deeper. Uh, and if you don't have something to be your muse, something to investigate, explore, like, you. The human body's, like, one of the most complicated things to move through, right? Yeah, you. But you're. You're working on that. You're sculpting, you're creating. Uh, but to hear you say that is. Is very, very, um, affirming for me, because I think what we do is unique. It's something that very few people in the world can do. And I think it doesn't force somebody to say, I couldn't do this on my own. It's. I want to do this more efficiently. I don't want try to connect all the dots and figure everything out. We were doing, uh, a credibility piece. And they're like, well, how many conversations have you guys had with founders? And it was like, well over 3, 500. How much have you advised on transaction value? Like, two and a half billion is safe. And so it's just like, do you have the actual expertise, like, or is it just your opinion? Right. It's like, no, this is rooted in actual experience. Right. And so, uh, for people who. They're going through it or going through it for the first time. I really, really, really appreciate you saying that. And I never asked guests to do it. Right. I watch a lot of hosts who set up the guest to say the thing that they want them to say so that they can use that to prove their point. And I, from the bottom of my heart, I can't tell you how much I app you saying that, Michael. Um, so you're in. You did exit 6, which is a liquidity event. Exit 7 is the post exit portfolio. I heard you say something along the lines of just put it in deposit. So did you really put it in a bank, or are you investing that in some way to create.

Speaker C: Look, that's probably. We had some surplus cash that we did put in the bank initially. Um, but basically, for starters, when I sold, I had a lot of loans to pay off, right? Like, you know, you don't build a practice the size that we had because I bought the building it was located on as well. So. So you've got a lot of loans that you need to pay out, basically, because if the bank doesn't have the asset anymore, they, like, they need the money, you know, so you can't loan against an asset you don't own. So that's. That was part of it there. But we own the. The building that the practice is located on. We own that. So we still own that. So, you know, we get paid rent from the new, new, um, new new owners of the bill of the business. So, you know, that's one. So we've got a commercial property there. But yeah, there was some surplus funds that, yeah, initially it was just. Let's just put it into, um. Uh, yeah, into a term deposit and, and just, you know, we can draw it down as we need to. But yeah, we didn't do anything crazy with it. You know, it was just stay the course, don't do anything silly. Don't get too restless and throw it all away. So, um, yeah, genuinely, that's what, that's what I, that's what I did with the bit that was left over. It was like, yeah, let's. Let's just do the least risky thing possible for 612 months until we get a better idea, but make sure we don't, you know, in a rush to try and optimize, try and do something silly.

Speaker B: That's very interesting. So what's the strategy going forward? Is it to deploy capital into a new company you own? Is it?

Speaker C: Yeah, so, yeah, it's a good question. My view is that, you know, you make money by, um, concentration. Right. So I made it through a dental practice, but you keep the money by diversifying. Right. So dental practice, ownership, it's a very narrow thing. Right. But that's how I made my money. But you, you make it through that. But then when it comes to what do you do with it all, then you want to reduce risk, so you diversify it. So, yeah, exchange traded funds, commercial property, cash superannuation in Australia, which I think there's like 401k in America, May be the same thing, I'm not quite sure. But, um. So that's, that's basically it. So it's very conservative. It's very boring. You know, like, I think I'm quite happy that my money is boring. I don't invest in crypto or anything like that. And those that do, happy days. Not interested here. So, yeah, I just do do boring things that get. I want to sleep at night and I think the sleep at night factor is important. I think that I'd be surprised if I went back into business again. I kind of feel like I've climbed that Everest, you know, and I'm not keen to. To do it again. So I still very much like business, but it just doesn't light a fire in m me anymore. Um, Jerome. So it's not something I want to jump Back into, um, to deploy capital in it again. I'm pretty happy having taken my chips off the table, to tell you the truth, and just sort of sitting it out for a bit. Um, yeah, that in terms of. From a financial point of view, um, it's funny. When I had the business, you know, I'd check my bank account far too often, like several times a day as the money would come in. And now it's nice because it's not nearly that often, you know, and you check the business spreadsheets, you know, all the time. Right. And then now it's nice to not. To not have that weighing on you anymore, you know, It's a. It's a good feeling. It's a good feeling.

Speaker B: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I think most people, uh, think work optional means one thing, and they find out it's something very different. It's like, oh, I gotta do this and I gotta make more. And it's like, well. Or I don't.

Speaker C: Yeah, totally. Absolutely. You know, I think that's exactly right. So I'd rather, you know, I understand the risk reward premium and I understand that if I did more risky things. Yeah, cool. There's a possibility of making more money, But I want to sleep at night, you know, and. And right now I've done well. You know, at some point, you kind of got to take your. Yeah. Take your chips off the table and not keep doubling down. And, you know, I've done the risky thing. Yep. Cool. I've done that. But now it's a time to not double down and triple down and try and keep. Keep betting the farm on everything. I'd rather. Yeah, I'm happy. I'm comfortable. I'm a simple guy. I like my burgers the street. So I'm, um. You know, it's. It's. I'm happy just taking it pretty easy. And, uh, yeah. Being. Being boring with my capital allocation now for sure.

Speaker B: With. With. With the mayonnaise dripping down the finger, hand and arm. So this is interesting. I've never asked anybody this question on the show, but I think you're. You'll be able to handle it. What are you optimizing for now? I think before growth. What are you optimizing for now?

Speaker C: Love that question. I think, like, you know, a sense of fulfillment. You know, a sense of, like, resting my head on the pillow at night and feeling like that was a good day, you know? So I. I think it's. It's pretty simple stuff. Um, you know, I think that's enough. Right. Like, I think that, you know, I've, I've. It's really interesting you ask that question, Jerome, because one of the things I like to do is like to think in life. It's like, what things have I reached the peak of in my life? And what things is the peak still to come? So I. About the number of friends I've. I've got, I've probably peaked back at university, but hopefully the depth of friendships, the peak is still to come. And you go, you know, my level of, you know, elite fitness is probably past me, but hopefully, you know, the. My enjoyment of fitness is still to come. And, you know, my level of debt, I hope that's peaked, but hopefully net wealth, the peak is still to come, you know, so it's really interesting of, like that thing of what are you optimizing for? But I, I think I'm. I'm happy, you know, it's that thing of like, you're trying to get, you know, complexity or simplicity in this stage. I'm pretty happy with simplicity, you know, Like, I just want a simple life. Um, rest my head on the pillow at night and feeling like that was a good day, you know, like, that was a good day. And, and I don't need a whole lot in my day for it to be a good day. Like, it's just simple things, you know, like, read a bit, spend some time with my wife and daughter, you know, exercise, um, you know, catch up with a friend or coffee if you're into the street or something like that. Like, that's, that's enough for me now. Um, and I guess, yeah, probably just find that other meaningful little, like the hard, interesting, meaningful project to pursue as well, which I'm getting closer to as well. So to give me that direction and. Yeah, that's enough. Wow.

Speaker B: Wow. So was the celebration simply a dinner? Or is there a car? Is there a watch, is there some kind of trophy to commemorate the thing?

Speaker C: Do you know what? It's interesting, right? Like, the most expensive thing I bought after, uh, um, after selling was a trampoline for my daughter. Like, we bought the absolute best trampoline you can possibly get. It's like $3,000 or 3, 500 bucks, but it's like state of the art. It's like. So that's like, I know I'm pretty boring, hey. But, um, like, I'm just having said that, we bought a place by the beach the year before, so that's kind of like my thing, right? So I think we kind of got the nice thing before we got the Payoff almost, you know. So like, I like the beach. It's my happy place. I kind of always found every time something was in my mind, I'd always work on the bees. So it was like you work on your brain, you go read a book, you work on your business, you work on your bank balance, you work on your body. But they're all like things you'd measure. Whereas at the beach, you know, you can't measure how good your day was at the beach. So for me, that's my. It's where I'm happiest, you know. So we bought a place by the beach, which I really love, really love spending time with. It's been really lovely for our family. That was a bit before the sale, but I think that's kind of almost like, you know, if it wasn't going to be before, it was certainly. Yeah, that would have been the thing. But strictly speaking, post sale, yeah, I bought a trampoline for my daughter. Um, but no, I haven't gone any around the world trips or anything like that there. I think, um, yeah, I think I must be pretty boring. I don't know. But like I just like, I bought a lot of books from Amazon, if that counts. I like to read and things. But no, I think nothing of any great note. But if something takes my fancy, I'm happy to. But like, I like my life, I like what I'm doing. Um, yeah, simple guy, simple tastes and I think, yeah, ah, I'm pretty happy with that.

Speaker B: Keep it easy, keep it simple, 100%. I don't think most people understand what enough is, but I think you figured out you're enough and you're playing that game.

Speaker C: Totally. I think the enough thing is super big. Yeah, exactly. Right. I completely agree. Is like knowing when enough is enough. And um, yeah, I'm very content with that of like, you know, I'm not trying to optimize for that of the disease of more always needing more. I kind of like the idea of happiness by subtraction. You know, it's like sort of thinking what would I, what do I need to add to my life to be happy? It's like, what are the things I don't like and get rid of that. Be it, you know, the gardening or a relationship that's not serving you or something like that. Sometimes getting rid of something actually makes you happier than as, uh, soon as I get a pool, as soon as I get the car, as soon as I get this, it's actually getting rid of the thing that's not bringing you happiness.

Speaker B: Yeah, like the business. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker C: I'm glad you said it. Yeah, that's it. But, yeah, at the end, that was exactly right, Jerome. You know, many a true word is said in Jess, but absolutely, at the end, that was the thing that was not bringing me joy. It was, uh, yeah, bringing me, you know, sleepless nights and things. And, and it was just. Yeah, the cost was, was huge and. Yeah. So, yeah, it was time to, to get rid of it.

Speaker B: Man, this has been such a joy, man. I really appreciate the opportunity to share your story and your, Your perspective. M. Most people I encounter, uh, they are not where you are mentally. They are trying to figure out, well, what else can I do to prove and what else do I need to get in order to be. And you're like, no, I am, um, and I'm going to do. And I already have. And so as long as those things are true, I think you can be very, uh, settled and be at peace in the space that you are and live that life that, um, is unassuming and enjoy the freedom that comes with the simplicity. Um, we've covered a ton of ground, Michael, today. What. What's the one thing you want the listeners to take away from the episode?

Speaker C: I think if you're going through this, like, persistent, like, just keep, you know, I found it was certainly challenging for me. Right. And you kind of. You feel like you're trying to figure it all out, but it has been odd the last little bit. All of a sudden, things just seem to click. So if you're feeling, you know, it. It's tricky because in business, you've got your direction, you've got your clear direction, you know what's next, you know what to do next. And then when you sell, you don't have direction. But I think you've got to keep working at it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And you just got to kind of keep trying to get a bit of structure and keep working towards whatever it is. And even if you're not sure, just keep, keep trying, you know, and, and I think that things will land, but, you know, just don't make rash decisions. Don't do silly things, don't bet big, you know, just, just, just, just let things settle a bit, um, while you figure it all out. And I think with time, you get a bit of clarity and things start to stick.

Speaker B: Things start to stick. Uh, just persist through it, man. Finding Nemo Dory says, just keep swimming.

Speaker C: That's it. Yeah, just keep swimming.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Not very much. So that's it.

Speaker B: I think it's appropriate for where you are in the world. And the absolutely you just gave us, this has been phenomenal. Uh, so I'll wrap it here, man. Uh, to our listeners, your dreams should be real. We'll catch you on the next episode.