Is Critical Thinking Overrated?

Narrator: Wonder about the future and how you'll be working and learning. Welcome to you in 2042, the future of Work with your host, Danielle Wallace.

Danielle Wallace: Hello and welcome to you in 2042, the future of Work. Joining me today is Ritra Kulkarni.

Richa Kulkarni: Hi, uh, my name is Richa. I'm a secondary school student in Mississauga, Ontario. I'm the president of my DECA chapter and I'm also involved in competitive dance outside of school at the Erinville School of Dance.

Danielle Wallace: That's great, Richa. I'm so happy you are here on our podcast, especially given that it's you in 2042, the future of work. Richa, uh, how old will you be in 2042 and what do you think the future work world, your future work world might be like?

Richa Kulkarni: So by 2042 I'll be in my early 30s or so and I think work will look very different from the traditional 9 to 5 model we're used to today. I think I see a big shift towards freelancing and flexible work when people no longer feel tied to a single job or a single employer for their entire lives. People are going to start to realize that I can have multiple sources of income or I can kind of do what I want when I want to do it for my job. So people will be able to take more control of what they want to do, how they work and when they work. I also think virtual and remote work will come back a lot. I know it was a huge thing during COVID 19 and then employers wanted people to start going back into work. But I think that there will be jobs that are virtual and remote and people will be working mostly online using a laptop, which gives them the freedom to travel, live where they want, and to design their lives around their work rather than the other way around. I also think hourly or project based pay will become more common, more common than traditional salaries, giving people more flexibility and more time to pursue their interests outside of work. And lastly, I expect a um, strong rise in entrepreneurship. In my generation. There's an incredible amount of talent, especially among children of like immigrants. Many of our parents came from places where they had lots of intelligence and the drive to succeed, but they lacked the resources, money and all opportunities in like the countries they came from. But now in places like Canada and the U.S. their children are growing up with both the inherited drive and the resources to act upon it. And this combination is creating a new wave of, um, ambitious, innovative people which I think will lead to a lot of startups in the future.

Danielle Wallace: Whoa, that is very interesting. And I like the lens that you're bringing to this, because when you speak to things which we've heard from others, such as the rise of more entrepreneurial work, more project based freelance work, and also even more remote work, what becomes apparent is you, your generation, are actually the ones creating that. Especially when you also speak to next generations that also have this drive that they're bringing. These are the people, this is our workforce that will be actually creating this change and creating the environments to best thrive in. And I'm curious though, on that, because for this environment to thrive in, sometimes I feel that it's predicated on things being the way they are now, but carried out into the future. So an example of that is, I swear on almost every podcast that I've had in you in 2042, the future of Work. Our expert guests all speak to this consensus for critical thinking, that this is emerging, ongoing, persistent need that the future generations have, whether it comes through because of AI, we need more critical thinking as a result, or even before that, in our earlier conversations within this podcast. This is an enduring human capability. Everybody, full stop, believes critical thinking is a holy grail. And yet other podcast guests I've also had in the show accurately speak to the fact that this has been an ongoing issue. This is an ongoing issue, and they don't think it's addressed or even solvable within the current school system. This your generation, Richa. So I'm curious, given that other generations are saying you need critical thinking, I'm curious to know what you, as, uh, someone in this future working generation in 2042, what you actually think about critical thinking.

Richa Kulkarni: Well, first, I think it's important to define what like is meant by critical thinking. I feel like it's a word that's thrown around a lot, but most kids don't even know what it means. So to me, critical thinking is the ability to question or analyze or interpret information rather than just accepting it at the face value. I think this skill is important, but it doesn't look the same as it does today as it will in the future. So I think with the rise of artificial intelligence, we're moving towards a world where some forms of critical thinking can be outsourced. AI is literally artificial intelligence, and we're already seeing it help people analyze information, identify patterns, and make decisions faster than humans could alone. Tools like AI assistance and wearable technology, like, you know, those meta glasses, they're becoming a part of everyday life. And it's a trend that's only going to Grow from here. This could be especially powerful for students with learning disabilities or people who struggle with traditional ways of thinking. Instead of forcing everyone to master the same kind of critical thinking, we could teach people how to effectively use AI to support the jobs they're going to have or to support themselves in general. And I always, whenever I'm having this conversation with someone, I always compare it to earlier points in human history. At one point, starting a fire was critical, was a critical human survival skill, and parents believed that every child needed to master it. Today, we don't see that as essential because technology has made it easier. We have stoves or other ways to cook things, but we didn't lose something by moving on. We gained the ability to focus on more advanced problems. I see critical thinking in the same way as technology evolves, we should allow certain tasks to become easier so humans can focus their energy on creativity, innovation, and other things machines can't fully replace.

Danielle Wallace: So that's interesting. So perhaps you're saying that we, again, older generations than yourself, have a very limited view of critical thinking, or maybe using it as a scapegoat, because this comes up all the time, especially when talking about future generations. And even within what you're saying, this levels of critical thinking, or even the ability to be okay with the idea of, yes, we are outsourcing decisions like you've said, and yes, we've already moved on from defining what a critical skill is. Just like the fire example, perhaps we are again speaking in contradiction from all of other many of our past guests. Perhaps we have a more limited view. In turn, though, these guests would argue that no, we. You actually need critical thinking from the start. And how can you properly trust what AI is telling you unless you already have critical thinking? And you can't get critical thinking just from taking a course like you need it through experience. But if you've never getting that experience because it's always outsourced, wouldn't that just lead to a collapse of. A collapse of society as we are thinking of, uh, it. And we're just fully relying on A.I.

Richa Kulkarni: so yeah, it comes back to ethics and stuff like that. We can talk about a collapse of society, but isn't that what's happening with the Internet or with electricity? If all electricity went out today, humanity would not survive. I don't think it would be very difficult. Obviously all our phones would shut down. We wouldn't have any lights, we wouldn't have any heating. It's just such an important part of our lives, and humans rely so heavily on it. I'm not saying that it should all happen at once, but I am saying that I see a future where I could become a super important part of human life and just something that all humans use to make their lives easier.

Danielle Wallace: Yeah, so again, you've got great examples. So if this AI is better at providing decision making, which we are seeing a lot of fabulous advances month over month in the various generative AI components, then perhaps to your point, who is to say that we can actually have more accurate and more consistent decision making, and we can even use various large language models themselves to discern to what your definition was, really ensuring that we can see and ask questions appropriately? Maybe. I think what you're saying is, yes, there is a means of having AI take a lot of that on, so it isn't just solely on the human to have to figure out, fight our way through. Why not take advantage of what technology can offer by outsourcing some of that decision making to AI while allowing us as humans to. Than to be able to pursue some of the more enjoyable aspects or the aspects that we more uniquely want to be contributing, Things that perhaps feel more innovative or creative.

Richa Kulkarni: Yeah, can I actually speak on this? I have another example, kind of.

Danielle Wallace: Please.

Richa Kulkarni: So, essentially, I think critical thinking is important in a sense, but there's some things that we don't need to critically think about, if that makes sense. So imagine you're in English class and you're in grade 10. To be able to have the ideas about a book you're reading, or to be able to critically think about the characters and have a general kind of like, uh, a thinking about how the characters are developing and how the story is developing, that's important. But to write a paragraph on the characters and to be able to critically think on. What do I need to remember on this paragraph? How do I specifically spell this word? How do I format this so it sounds super coherent? Why not just take those ideas, throw them into ChatGPT, and get that to do all the work for you so you can focus on the ideas rather than the formatting and the clarity.

Danielle Wallace: Wow, that's interesting and a good, very concrete example. And again, so amazing because I think we've got. We can have a really interesting discussion even amongst all of our, uh, podcast viewers.

Richa Kulkarni: And people could argue that, oh, just students want to be lazy. They don't want to write a paragraph, or they don't want to learn how to do these things. But no, I would argue the thinking and the ideas. It's more difficult to generate these ideas than it is to learn how to properly format a paragraph or to properly make it sound easy to read. It's harder to think of those ideas and it's harder for that kind of thought processes instead of just learning how to memorize, how to do something.

Danielle Wallace: And if we look at it even further though, could we not just outsource an entire piece so not do any thinking at all in that example or perhaps other examples where we're outsourcing the entire thinking about. Tell me about the character development about this, like not even doing the thinking ourselves, just completely outsourcing that to AI. Tell me about what the themes are, tell me what the underlying emerging issues that are cohesive with today's society, whatever the critical thinking elements are. Could we not just use AI for that?

Richa Kulkarni: So this is where it starts to get a little bit dangerous. In short, yes, but I don't think it's for everyone. You have to kind of see what kind of learner the student is and you have to kind of see like what their kind of goals are. AI, from what I've used it and I've used it a lot, I've never had AI give me a piece of information that another human could not give me. So I've never had artificial intelligence doesn't mean more intelligence, if that makes sense.

Danielle Wallace: Right.

Richa Kulkarni: So essentially AI is doing work for me faster, but it's all work that I could already do if I put the time into it. So I don't think humans can train AI to think of new ideas, if that makes sense. Only humans can do that. So if you're going back to like entrepreneurship and stuff, I don't think that AI will be able to invent and innovate and create new things as well as humans can. So it's a little bit dangerous when you're outsourcing the idea ideas from AI because then you're going to be like stuck in development and stuff. Because AI can only really teach you what you already know. It can just do it faster.

Danielle Wallace: That's a very good point. So that truly breakthrough, the totally completely innovative ideas, while we can attempt to achieve that with AI, even as I think out into the future it is difficult to bring together one's own human experiences as well as the breadth of experiences to form something that's cross industry novel breakthrough within a particular domain that ignites growth. Yeah, that's a good point. That would actually be difficult. And then the humans are still needed for that. And then interestingly though, what you're also saying is that for some this need that. We keep talking about this holy grail of critical thinking. Not everybody needs it anyhow. Not everybody needs it right now. And yet we're forcing it upon people to various degrees. And we can argue on that within the school system. The other thing becomes very clear to me is that the world, again, uh, older generations than yourself, are looking at this future trajectory of this Future workforce in 2042 with our past experiences in mind and somewhat limiting. So we're either assuming there is this atrophy of critical thinking skills. So holy smokes, everything's going to just fall apart if we're just solely relying on AI and what that might do, or conversely, that people will have the same critical thinking skills we have now and things just plug along in a linear way like we see now, as if we're predicting the future to be as linear as the past. What's becoming clear to me, reach in what you're saying. It's a lot more nuanced, it's a lot more uneven. I see now this future is a lot more ups and downs in terms of human capability, in terms of human skills, and specifically this need for critical thinking, because it comes to be a lot more complex than I think anyone else is assuming. People just think you have the skill. I got the skill from working, being in the world, talking to people from school, whatever. That's false to assume that is just transfer to the future. And it's equally false to assume it doesn't happen at all. It's so much more uneven and it makes it even more apparent that we can't predict at all how things are going to be in 2042, unless perhaps it's someone like yourself who is going to be that person making change, creating these innovative breakthrough ideas that I think yourself and others like you will be bit more of the answer and will hold that key. More so than myself and many of the experts I have on this podcast, podcasts. It's a lot more complicated than we think with that. What do you think the future holds? Is it like an. Is it rosy again? Thinking about 2042, is it just a big fog? Is it uncertain?

Richa Kulkarni: So essentially I, I think we're the first generation that grew up with social media. Not social media specifically, but short form content. So TikTok, Instagram reels, Snapchat spotlights, that kind of stuff. Now I think this is going to be the biggest issue when it comes to the future. I see like in my, um, in my school and in my circle and just a lot of people I know there are other kids who are very, very ambitious. These people work very, very hard. These people want to do a lot with their lives. And then there's kids who are not lazy in a sense, but they're a little bit more reserved. Maybe they don't want to do as much, they don't have as much ambition. And I think it all comes down to initiative. Nothing is going to really be handed to you. You have to go and get it. You have to go and apply for that job. You have to go and try to start that club at your school. You have to, like, do extra work when it comes to it. And I think because of short form content, it's just so easy to scroll. People are not taking this initiative because they don't see the reason to do it. So I'm a little scared. In the future there's going to be a huge discrepancy in wealth and in success. I think there's going to be some people who are very successful and I think there's going to be some people that are doing very badly.

Danielle Wallace: What you say makes so much sense. And importantly, this discrepancy is already here. And perhaps the fears that we're seeing again are the concerns and the upside from technology is only exacerbating, which is already apparent.

Richa Kulkarni: Absolutely. And I think that's what people in your podcast, um, your guests that you have, they're concerned about. They're kind of sensing that this is going to happen and they're maybe sensing that maybe more kids are lazier or they're not. They're going to be on the end of the spectrum where you're not as successful in life. And their fear is that this is happening because of AI and because that, oh, everyone's brain is going to become so soft and mushy and nobody's actually going to be able to learn or actually be able to critically think and take care of themselves in that sense. But I disagree with that. I think that what's making people lazy is the fact that their brains are not being exercised for important things. So we're just mundanely learning how to do things instead of being able to think creatively and outside of the box. And how you think creatively and how you learn things and how you develop ideas is by actually going into the real world and doing things like, for example, taking co op, joining clubs, going somewhere with your friends after school, going to the mall even. You get experiences. You learn things from going to the mall. At least you learn more from going to the mall than scrolling on your phone all day. And I think that's one of the bigger issues. And I think if we're very concerned about the younger generation, then that's what needs to be focused on. It's the phones.

Danielle Wallace: That's an interesting point. And then on your own experiences. So when you speak about the initiative and drive and seeking experiences, so I think about your own work, uh, as president of deca and what you are doing purposely, and the club is doing purposely to generate thinking and actually applying these in the real world. The last question I want to tackle again was brought up by other podcast guests. And this speaks to what you just said, this importance of actually having experiences, actually getting outside, whether it is to the mall, whether it is anywhere but actually having these conversations or having experiences. And other podcast guests were worried because there is less focus on that from many different factors. Why, even from their parental pushes or not. What are your thought on this lack of human skills that again, others generations older than you say are lacking in your generation?

Richa Kulkarni: I think it's one of the worst things that's happening right now. I think that especially in your developmental years, you need to be outside, you need to be learning new things, you need to be going somewhere, you need to be building immunity even by, uh, being outside. This is how ideas are made. Actually. You make ideas by being exposed to a lot of things and learning and then by being in silence or being bored a little bit or on social media. There's not really good quality ideas, if that makes sense, like you're mostly getting memes or like just funny things. But if you actually going out and what I mean by out is like physically outside of your house, you're learning things and you're getting to see kind of how the real world is. And that's really going to help in just like your mental health. And it's also going to help you develop ideas which is needed for the future. And I think that's a better way to learn critical thinking.

Danielle Wallace: That's great. That's very important. Also coming from yourself, being a member of that generation and your ability to articulate some of the things that are happening, the undercurrent that the rest of the world is not seeing, which is already happening as this undercurrent, and then ways, then perhaps we, uh, collectively as a society can encourage, uh, really the encouragement, like you're saying, to go out, like physically out, to have experiences, to therefore have ideas. Which segues back to what you were saying earlier about the ability for your generation to have these huge breakthrough ideas. Well then using AI as that sidekick along the way, but still really having that ability to drive where it drive the world where it needs to be driven. And then for those who don't want to be driving the world, that's okay too. A very complex, super, super interesting discussion, Richa. Uh, really appreciate your time.

Richa Kulkarni: I don't think there should be like any kid in the world, anyone my age, anyone teenager who is doing no extracurriculars. Extracurricular. I see it as like a huge, very important thing, especially for like someone like me. I'm currently enrolled in a four credit co op at my high school. And I immediately jumped on co op because I knew that's how I'm actually going to learn. Of course theory isn't important and I'm going to have so much of my life to learn theory. And you're going to be forced to learn theory. If you're a kid, you're going to be, you're going to school. But extracurricular for me is so important. I wanted to do DECA because it's a really great club where you can't really just learn theory. And that's it. You have to actually practice talking to people. It's kind of like a speaking club. And you have to be able to think on the spot and you have to be able to do like human interaction, like socializing, networking, that kind of stuff. Same thing with like if you're joining a sport, you're actually talking to people, you're outside, you're doing good things. But I know especially for people my age, there's a lot of people who are doing nothing after school and they aren't involved in something. They're just on their phones and they're doing their homework and they're on their phones and doing their homework. So even if they have great grades, which is great for them, you still need to be doing extracurriculars. I think extracurriculars are just as important as curriculars.

Danielle Wallace: So maybe what's missing as we speak about this holy Grail, maybe it's not critical thinking itself. Perhaps let's unpack that. Maybe what this holy grail is actually having experiences, like real, um, offline experiences that is very thought provoking. Richa, thank you so much for your time and we look forward to how you, Richa, uh, will be changing the world in 2042. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of the future. Subscribe now to stay current.