Ep. 408: "Be More Human" - Embracing AI, Robotics and the Future of Workplace Strategy with Kevin Sauer, MCR.w of Nhance.ai & Sauer Strategy Works, LLC

Speaker A: Get out there and spend time with people, listen to people, talk to your business leaders, talk to other people in the field, talk to people outside of your field to really understand what's happening and bring in new ideas to kind of what you're doing. So, uh, yeah, be more human.

Speaker B: This is the Workplace Innovator podcast where we talk with corporate, real estate and facility management leaders about the industry trends, challenges and technologies impacting your organization. Organization. This show is powered by Aptura, the global work tech company providing software solutions for people, workplaces and assets to enable you to work your world. Hey, folks, welcome back to the Workplace Innovator podcast. It's me, your host, Mike P. And I continue here on my quest to bring you new interesting guests in the world of facility management, corporate real estate and the workplace. And I have a mission to get some folks on that. I feel like I've known for a long time, have interacted with a lot at conferences and on LinkedIn, but they've not yet had a chance to sit in the hot seat with DJ Mike P. So we're going to solve that problem today by bringing in a great guest. His name is Kevin Sauer. He is a global workplace strategist with so many credentials I can't even begin to describe them. So I'll let him do it as I welcome him. From Seattle, Washington, everybody say hello to Kevin Sauer. Kevin, welcome to the Workplace Innovator podcast.

Speaker A: Thanks, Mike. Appreciate you having me on. It's, uh, been a while. We kind of ran into each other at Cornet, uh, and things and I avoided your booth at that time, but great to finally, uh, get a chance to connect and chat.

Speaker B: I couldn't track you down on the show, uh, expo hall floor, Right? Come on. I'm not that kind of guy.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I'm not that kind of guy. But I do love interacting in real life, irl, as the kids say. And we have seen each other at Cornet. Are you an IFMA guy as well, or just Cornet?

Speaker A: I am, yeah.

Speaker B: Ifma. Okay, well, you're based in Seattle, I guess. It's, uh, still a long journey down to Anaheim this fall for World Workplace. Will you be, uh, making it there by chance?

Speaker A: Um, we'll not make it to Anaheim this go around. Um, but, uh, we'll head out to Chicago in the fall. Um, but I mean, I head up and down mostly Silicon Valley, so I try to spend a lot of time in the Bay Area, uh, in part for vitamin D, but also for connections and just kind of being with the vibe of what's happening with AI technology and all that. So, um, it's kind of a regular run. I'll be heading down there again tomorrow.

Speaker B: Oh, cool. Okay. So you have a vitamin D shortage living in Seattle? Is that what you're saying? I have the same problem 100%, only because I'm always wearing sunscreen. We were joking about it before clicking record that. I do have a plan to head to the beach this summer, everybody. But, you know, you look at me and I'm, like, not going to be baking in the sun. It's going to be under an umbrella, you know, fully covered in water babies. 70 plus. But anyway, Kevin, water wings on and water wings. Absolutely, absolutely. With my B.O. box playing some great 80s tunes. So we'll talk about that in a second. Music is certainly a part of the conversation here, but I want to give everybody a chance to get to know you a little bit as far as your career journey. You have this amazing, uh, LinkedIn profile. I encourage everybody to check the links below and introduce yourself to Kevin and tell him you heard him here on the Workplace Innovator podcast. But what would you want people to know about the work you do?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, so I'm Kevin Sauer. Um, ultimately, I'm a failed engineer. I thought I was going into engineering very quickly realized that was not my course in life. So, um, fortunately, early in college days, managed to switch over and fortunately had a mentor that kind of set me up for what I needed to do and not do to get through this successfully. And also had a family that really, uh, supported kind of 360, um, learning. So as I dove into architecture, I realized, well, I need to understand what I'm actually getting myself in for. So I ended up working in construction, worked for city planning, worked for architectural firms. So I kind of understand all the players within that as I went through my education to kind of understand, one, do I want to actually do this or not? And two, what. How do I interact and how do I understand what's going on here? And that set me up for a pretty good trajectory. Um, got in, started working in architecture, got laid off pretty quickly because we had one big project, and right as I was graduating, they said, you know what? The project's wrapping up. It was great working with you. We don't have any work. Sorry, time to a dance. I wasn't deterred. I actually jumped on a plane two weeks later, flew off, ended up working in, uh, Belfast for the university there. And then that started kind of a bounce around, kind of back and Forth to Europe, um, uh, for work and play, and decided I actually needed to go back to graduate school to make sure that I kind of had the credentials to get licensed in architecture. And along the way I also realized that stereotypically, uh, or typically architects are terrible business people. So I also got a Master of Architecture and an mba. So I kind of balanced the business side of that and then was trying to figure out my next step. Um, met a girl, followed a girl to Seattle. I'm still here. And started out the architecture.

Speaker B: Follow the. There should be a song in there. Follow the girl to Seattle.

Speaker A: I think there is. I was going to say we should kick it off with Talking Heads. Once in a lifetime. How did I get here?

Speaker B: Oh, I love it.

Speaker A: So that would be like the theme song for it.

Speaker B: Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. How did I get in?

Speaker A: It's great. I showed up here, found, um, that Seattle is a bit of a provincial market. If you didn't go to school or grow up here, it's a little bit difficult to get in. But managed to finally get in with interiors firm. Was there for a number of years, started doing projects for Microsoft and said, well, I wonder what it's like to be on the client side. So I was able to flip over onto the client side and actually become the design vendor manager. So now, um, I'm managing all my competitors from the last week and great perspective to understand that there was a miscommunication between kind of the architectural teams and the client. So I was able to kind of work through and solve that. And a couple years in, they said they were going to bring on a workplace strategist and start a workplace program. I said, I have no idea what that means, but sounds really cool. People place, technology. Fantastic. How do I get into this? So I pitched it that, uh, hey, I'm hungry, I'm interested, I'll figure it out. And I was fortunate enough they took me on as, uh, a workplace strategist. At the time, there were two of us, uh, we split the company, um, 50 50. So my counterpart took corporate headquarters and I took everything outside of the US Because I love international travel and kind of learning more about what happens. And that set me on a trajectory to travel around the world and spend a lot of time, um, doing interviews, focus groups, surveys, observations. Really understand how the company worked. And then how do you translate that into place and technology? It's a fantastic run. A lot of key learnings around the difference between cultural, uh, corporate culture, um, country culture, work process, Things like that. And then how does the physical space actually support or hinder that? Um, it was a great time.

Speaker B: What we talk about here, Kevin, these are the key issues covered in this very short podcast. So I want to get to some of it quickly, if you don't mind me just kind of cutting you off and kind of wonderful story. Didn't mean to give you the uh, uh, you know, the hook early, but it's like I could talk to you for 20, 30 minutes about that I'm sure, because you've been to so many places, you've seen the world, you've seen the uh, impact of data and technology and what it does to workplaces today. And here we are in the middle of 2026 with so many people listening to us from the perspective of a facility management or corporate real estate leader trying to do what's right for their organization and be a workplace innovator. So I wonder, when you said, hey Mike, sure, I'll come on your show, what do you think about what does it take to be innovative in the workplace today?

Speaker A: I think you have to really kind of challenge prior assumptions and also not get caught in the trap of what's been done before. I think, uh, probably the greatest thing ever happened was Covid, um, because it really kind of shook things up. Challenge assumptions. I was big into driving kind of activity based working, shared desking. And there was always a pushback of, oh, we can't do that for any number of reasons. And then suddenly pandemic comes and wow, that's no longer an issue. We can actually do that. So I think it really changed the dynamics and the understanding of what is the relationship between work and place. And now I'm um, even more excited about AI because it starts to bring together a lot of the elements that um, as a human or as an individual, it's hard to kind of think about all the different, um, elements that come together to support people in the work, the type of work they're doing and what that could look like in the future. And now we can actually kind of crunch that um, and test out theories and hypotheses much faster. And I think it's really going to revolutionize um, our industry, uh, in good ways and bad ways. But that's kind of the way of uh, the world.

Speaker B: Take it. All right. Yeah. The good with the bad. Well, we'll talk more about it. I want to hear your views on AI and its potential and its power. And maybe if there is a downside, the warnings you might issue to my Audience of workplace leaders. And I want to get into some of your priorities and what you're working on today and what you've learned and. And maybe as a fan of this show, I know you were going to probably tell everybody that during COVID or during, uh, some part of your journey, you found the Workplace Innovator podcast and hopefully, uh, learned a thing or two where we're feeling a connection. And I know you have. So thank you for being a listener. And I can't even go on, um, too much about that, but I do appreciate it and I can't wait to learn more about what you've been doing and how it may help my audience because we want to get practical and give them some takeaways. But, you know, we mentioned it briefly. I got to come back to music really quick. Talking Heads. Fantastic reference earlier, but what else are you listening to, Kevin, what's on your playlist? What gets you inspired?

Speaker A: Well, Mike, like you, I grew up in the 80s, so I'm really tied into electronic music. Um, I mean, Vince Clark was kind of really my idol. He's, um, kicked off Depeche Mode back in the Speak and Spell days, went on to form Yaz with Allison Moyet, who I just saw in concert last week, and then went on to Erasure. And so it just kind of that new music era with electronics and synthesizers and all that was just, um. That's kind of what gets me going. And still listen to that. I kind of bring in some other new music as well, but, uh, I'm pretty well connected to the 80s. That was my formative years, if you will.

Speaker B: Same here. Alison Moyet.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And Depeche Mode and Erasure. That keyboard. Come on. Here we go. Kevin, how did Allison sound? Don't go. Come on.

Speaker A: She's movements, um, are a little bit slower. Um, those. Love the 88s dance moves, but yeah, great voice. Um, she's still doing it. Did a lot of the favorites. I don't think she expected the reception that she got because, I mean, a lot of people were there just for her. This was a three band event. We had Soft Sell Alison and Human League. A lot of people there came to see Allison and then actually left after she was done because that was it. That capped off the evening for them.

Speaker B: She is our generations. Adele meets. I don't know any Whitney Houston. I don't know they're all blending together in my mind, but what a voice, what a powerful voice. I could talk the rest of the time and talk about new wave electronic music. But we have to get back to the topic of workplace and technology and strategy. So tell me a little bit more, Kevin, about uh, how we can approach some of this stuff. Actually, I want to ask about an inspirational quote because I love the inspiration that comes from my audience when you share maybe a book or a quote that has inspired you and may help them.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that's an old one, but the one I keep going back to is um, from Henry Ford. Um, if I asked people what they wanted, uh, they would have said faster horses. Um, I've always throughout my career looked for is there a faster, better way to do this and what is the underlying need? It's not. And that's kind of core to workplace strategy. You need to listen to um, your customer, um, your client, whoever it is, and find out what it's. What are they actually trying to achieve? What's the why behind what they're doing? And is there a better way to get there? And often requires some change and a little bit of um, tug and pull to get them across that line. But it is a journey to a place where you'll find that things um, are better, uh, and it frees you up to do kind of better work and actually move your career forward. So that's why I've gotten to the practice of really trying to focus on people and how do you actually give them a great experience and enable them to do more.

Speaker B: Excellent. Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. And it's something that you obviously have a chance. As I'm scrolling your LinkedIn profile here, Kevin, some of the current assignments you have or contracts, you describe them as you want, but I mean from uh, the head of US Operations and client delivery for Nhance, which you said is a AI delivery tool of some kind

Speaker A: of a unified platform that makes building smarters, um, you can think about it as a building operating system that connects systems, spaces, people using AI data and design to really inform everything from daily operations to portfolio wide decisions. So it's kind of that software layer that brings everything together.

Speaker B: Very cool. And I saw you did a video online for FacilityQuest and uh, it looks like you're currently at FlexPaths as well. Why do I know FlexPaths? That name sounds familiar.

Speaker A: Change management. So they're huge in the change management field and getting more into the future work. Um, the thing that goes across that is really, it's kind of fractional, um, something. When I first got into workplace strategy and joined an end user consortium, we talked about at what point do we have free agents? Because we all get into these jobs, we have our expertise and our passions, and a project comes along, it's a great fit, you do really well, the project ends and there's always that gap between the next piece. So now you're doing kind of meaningless work, the company's overpaying you, so there's higher overhead and it's not great for either party. But going into fractional now, I can kind of pick and choose and say, here's the things that I'm really good at and passionate about and I get paid for the work I do, and when that's done, I'm done. And I have flexibility, schedule to get back a little bit of work, life balance, and be able to kind of dabble with different companies and really kind of keep my mind fresh of what's new and different. What have I not thought about? And also I love connecting the dots. Is there a way to kind of bring separate products, um, people, ideas together, um, to create a better whole?

Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, no, it sounds ideal in so many ways. So in the time we have remaining, I'd love to hear some of the things you have been working on, what you've been learning, maybe things that you haven't heard me address here on this show or my guests, uh, talk about enough. What do you think we should be focused on here in the middle of 2026, Kevin?

Speaker A: I mean, obviously the big buzz is AI and it's getting people comfortable and fluent enough that you get past kind of experimentation stage. So I love experimenting. I've got four different platforms running. I pay the 20 bucks a month for all of them, and I can burn a lot of productive time experimenting. So the next step is getting agents so that they start to take work off my plate. So rather than me going out and hunting for workplace articles, I've got my research agent that goes out, collects everything from the week before, gives me summaries, gives me links so I can kind of dive into content I want. I'm working through trying to get that into my email and then going to the next spot. I need my digital assistant to kind of take care of kind of all that administrative work so I can focus on things I really want to do. And so you think about that from the workplace perspective. Um, ah, there's great examples like OpenAI came to a coordinate event and shared how, um, they're using chat to come in and look at facilities, ticketing, and the system can actually look at, um, a ticket coming in, um, employees as I spilled a coffee. So wet cleanup in the conference room, the agent can look at it and go, uh, oh, that's a high priority. And there's two facilities, people within proximity. We're going to send them right now and reprioritize the work to get that cleaned up. And suddenly, um, things are happening faster, requires no human intervention. So they're saving 50 hours a week initially when they put this together. So you're finding time savings, but also getting to those priorities faster without having that human intervention, which allows then the team to focus on more strategic things that they need to do long term. And I think that's really important. Um, the other piece I feel gets kind of lost in the mix is robotics. Maybe we're starting to hear about that. You've got your robotic assistance, um, and there's a lot of areas that we're already using them somewhat quietly. But, um, doing roof inspections used to be if you had an issue with mechanical on the roof, someone's got to go out there, they got to get access, get up on the roof, put on their safety gear. Now you can just sit in your truck and fly up a drone, um, check it out, check the sensors, um, through the BMS system and diagnose at a distance and say, okay, I need to actually go up and do something, or no, I need to order a part and get away. Reduce the risk, speed up the process and think about, uh, what weather ideas there are. Um, probably the best example I have is I went to a concrete plant, 100 year old concrete plant. Always drove by it in Seattle, thought it was very cool. They opened a tour and their big thing is they had one of the Boston Dynamics, um, robo dogs as, uh, their security is that we have a hazardous environment and we needed to keep it safe. And so now we have a robot that goes around 247 to make sure that everything's safe, secure, it can see air detection or anomalies that humans would never pick up. So we're more efficient, uh, we're safer. And it's like, well, if 100-year-old concrete plant can do this, why aren't we doing this more in corporate real estate? So I think we've got some opportunities there as well. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And you sound pretty optimistic about it. So you're going to cornet. You're talking about these things. You're going to ifma, uh, at different places. I think we are now here in a place where we can say yes and yes, AI will disrupt the way we have done things, will need us to upskill, requires us to Know better. The human intelligence, emotional intelligence, the insightful stuff that only humans can kind of glean from things. But we can use these tools and we can use these technologies to inform our systems better and then be more efficient, more productive, create, uh, those better experiences. And we don't have to have this kind of looming AI apocalypse, uh, doom and gloom about losing jobs and, and so forth. Are you in agreement with that or do you think I'm missing?

Speaker A: I mean, there's certainly risks out there, I mean, even on the side of, um, deep fakes, particularly with our older population. You can go online, get all the ads of, oh, look at that, uh, this doctor, that expert supports this product or this service, and it's all fake. You can go research that and find out. No, this is. They're using unauthorized video, they're creating AI video. So with any new technology, there's always bad actors that, um, make it challenging because they're going to cause disruption there. There is risk, absolutely. Uh, but I'm optimistic that the good outweighs the bad. As long as we kind of work together to figure out how do we put guardrails in place and safeguard as much as we can so we can all progress further.

Speaker B: Well, what do you see as the future of our particular community, the FM and CRE industry? What do you think my listeners who have a role to play there need to be thinking about?

Speaker A: It's complicated, obviously. Um, particularly with offices becoming. We're kind of in flux still and we've. We've kind of getting a little bit more stability in terms of how many people are coming in. What's that look like? I mean, there's certainly value in bringing people together, but it's much more sporadic. So how do you first figure out the building envelope? What do you need to provide? How's that flex? And I think that's where technology can kind of help look at patterns and even look at reconfiguration. I m. Think I could see in the future that you got your robotics team, and as you start to see things change or there's a team wants to come in and do an event, you can actually then start moving things around, actually curate every separate event that happens in the office more fluidly than you can today. And then the FM teams are really focused on actually being the coordinators, make sure this all goes together and understanding what has the highest impact, connecting much deeper with the business. Uh, is what we're doing in facilities making a positive impact, a positive ROI on the business? And are we connected, if not let's rethink that. Is there a better way to make sure that we're a partner to the business, not just kind of a service?

Speaker B: Yeah. No, absolutely. And I hope everybody listening at this point knows that my position and my philosophy is all about this holistic view of the built environment, where the workplace and facility management and, uh, the real estate elements are all just pieces of a bigger puzzle. In fact, we debated, uh, Kevin, whether to have you here on the Workplace Innovator podcast or the Asset Champion Podcast. With your expertise in smart buildings and kind of the, uh, uh, impact of data flowing across the entire built world, you could speak to all of it. But as I promised, the time goes by. 20 minutes has passed, and I need to kind of wrap up with you. So I will encourage everybody to reach out to you and hopefully learn more about the work you do. But in these final couple minutes together, what would you share with my audience as we head into the future of the workplace together?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is get out there and spend time with people, listen to people. Um, I mean, really listen. Go out and talk to your business leaders, talk to other people in the field, talk to people outside of your field to really understand what's happening and bring in new ideas to kind of what you're doing. I think that's really, um, that human element. I mean, getting back to actually, um, being human, connecting. I was just telling someone that, um, stopped texting me to say, can you call me? Just call me. It's like, if I pick up, we'll have a conversation. We've just saved time. If not, I will text you saying, I'll call you back. So, yeah, be more human.

Speaker B: Be more human, everybody. I love it. Kevin, well said. Great discussion, great conversation. It goes by too fast, but I do appreciate it, finally having the chance to talk with you here. And we'll continue the conversation at the next event where we cross paths, or call me anytime and we'll talk more. But until then, thank you so much for being on the Workplace Innovator podcast.

Speaker A: Great. Thanks so much, Mike. I really appreciate it and looking forward to catching up in person.

Speaker B: Awesome. And thank you all for joining us today. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. If so, please consider sharing this discussion, this podcast episode with a colleague or a friend. Anyone who you think might like to join us as we continue here on our journey to encourage and inspire you to be a, uh, workplace Innovator. Peace out. You've been listening to the Workplace Innovator podcast, powered by Aptura, the epicenter of the future of work. For more about how we help organizations to engineer a, uh, thriving environment by enhancing their employee experience, experience, workspaces and asset value, please visit eptura.com.