Women of Inspiration® Podcast - EP 0158 - Kya Sainsbury-Carter

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hi, my name is Monica Kretschmer, CEO of the Universal Women's Network Women of Inspiration Awards and support her. This is the Woman of Inspiration podcast featuring business leaders, entrepreneurs and change makers who lead, inspire and motivate. Tune in as we put women into the spotlight. Listen to the inspiring interviews of women paving the path for others to follow. Learn the career paths, leadership, wisdom and stories of women who lead by example and inspire us to dream big. Get ready to be inspired.

Speaker A: You.

Speaker B: Hi, my name is Monica Kretchmer. I'm the founder and CEO of the Universal Women's Network Woman of Inspiration Awards. And this is the Woman of Inspiration podcast where we speak with women who lead, inspire and motivate. Now today we have a very special guest. We have Kaya. She is a globally recognized sales and marketing executive who spent more than 20 years helping shape and scale Microsoft's advertising business into a, ah, global powerhouse, generating more than 18 billion in annual revenue across search, native display, video, retail, media and strategic partnerships. So Kaya, I'm excited to have this conversation with you because you've had a remarkable career. Your leadership roles have spanned across, uh, several sales, strategy, operations, partnerships and executive leadership. You've earned a reputation bridging strategy and execution, leading with authenticity and cultivating deeply trust based relationships beyond the boardroom. Kai is a passionate traveler, proud mom of two sons, and someone who believes leadership is ultimately about people, connection and impact. And now after more than two decades at Microsoft, Kaya is stepping into a brand new chapter one centered on evolution, reflection and what's next. We'd like to welcome Kaya Sainsbury Carter to the Woman of Inspiration show. We look forward to diving in your remarkable journey, your leadership philosophy and what truly means to lead with both power and humility. Listeners, get ready to be inspired.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. I am so happy to be here, Monica. So happy to be part of your journey and the amazing platform that you've built. And what an amazing opportunity in the moment of change to, to reflect and talk with you about women in leadership. I'm super excited to be here.

Speaker B: So you've spent more. We're going to dive right in here. So you spent two decades at Microsoft leading the sales, strategy, operations and partnerships at the executive leadership level. Looking back, what were some of those defining moments that shaped your path to the executive table?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, the way that I think about the defining moments and the defining path is really that I gravitate toward and I thrive in moments of ambiguity and change even though they are also very stressful. And even though they make your hair go gray and sometimes are pretty hard on your family, that's when I feel at my best. And so, as I think back on my career, there have been these large moments of something happening in the industry or something happening in our business that's very dramatic and existential and intense, or building up a new business may not be existential, but it's important. And it's a moment of potential change to come for the business. Um, and certainly moments of personal change and ambiguity where I really have taken those deep learnings, those moments of reflection when I think, can I do this? Am I the right person for this? What am I getting out of what in the moment can feel so intensely chaotic and wild? And of course, when you reflect back on those moments, whether it's a week, a month, or even years later, and you can see them for what they are, you recognize that you were in this huge moment of shift. You were in this huge moment of learning and recalibrating yourself and your capabilities. And what I find is, of course, there are moments when I think, enough, let's have relative calm for a while. But I always go back to these things and in fact, seek them out. So I've taken multiple jobs over the years at Microsoft, where I've gone from running a big org to being an individual contributor because I want to learn something new. I want to be a part of a project where I'm not yet qualified to be the person that's leading the whole team. And those have always been moments of there's something crazy happening over there, and I want to be there.

Speaker B: So I think what might help listeners is finding out maybe a little bit about your career path and journey. So what would. What were you like as a young girl? We have lots of young listeners or moms that are certainly working with their daughters and try to carve that path. But what was young Kaya like? Did you have that same spirit, spark for in curiosity back when you were a little girl? And what did you want to be like? Did you see this as a path for you, or what was that path?

Speaker A: Uh, I would say yes, yes and no. I come from a family of almost all artists and teachers, and so I was surrounded by artistry, by people building with their hands, and people who were super committed at a deep values level to creativity and ownership. And in reality, I am not an artist. I do want to be a writer. That's one of my goals. But I'm not an artist. And so I was always a little sort of Odd man out in the family in that way. But I also didn't know anyone in business. I didn't actually know what that was. But I was extremely driven and extremely interested in travel and international relations and understanding how people go and create things on a multinational level, even though I didn't really know what that meant. But to be honest, I was really like, I'm gonna be a writer that I. I come from this creative family and this is my creative outlet, so I'll be a writer. And I had a really great conversation with my mom, and as many girls do, I didn't probably listen to most things my mom said, but in this moment I did. I was having a conversation with my mom about what I should study in college and about writing. And she said, listen, Kaya, you hate being poor and you don't like financial ambiguity, and that's what being an artist is. And I think you should go to business school and you can write on the side. And so most of the time I would have said, ah, uh, what do you know? And not listen to that. But somehow I saw the moment that it was time to actually really take in what she was saying. And so I applied to business school and really the rest is history. I went to undergrad business school. I got my mba and I loved it. I loved the artistry and creativity of leading businesses and dealing with the. All the many things that come that. That are unexpected, that you have to learn about and react to in the moment. And so there was some of that was serendipity of just listening to the right thing at the right time. Some of it I think I created for myself. And I think in terms of what do listeners take away? The innate drive to build something, to create stability for my family, to create stability for myself, but also to be a part of something bigger where I thought my skill set would be useful. Can take you in a lot of different directions and often in very unexpected ones. And so did my family think I'd be working at Microsoft? Like, absolutely not. That was not in the cards or on the table. And one of the most interesting jobs that I've ever had. I worked at a startup called Art.com and I loved that job because it combined this dynamic of my family, this thing that I never was a part of and always felt like I was like knocking on the outside in at this beautiful, beautiful creative world. And it combined it with my business, like my actual job, where I went there to create a new line of business around engaging with artists and photographers and bringing their Original artwork online for print, on demand, and for sale. And I actually worked with one of my uncles who was a painter to bring his artwork online through our dot com. And it was like this culminating moment of both worlds colliding and living together. It was really beautiful.

Speaker B: So those are the special moments that you're like, okay, I'm on the right path for a reason. Because if we're all doing the same thing, those opportunities wouldn't happen. So that is really interesting. So that path to the C Suite, there's so much awe. Ah. And wonder about what it actually takes to get to that C suite or get to those positions. What were some of those pivotal moments in some of the decisions that you've. Obviously the decision that gleaned from your mom to go into business school. But what were some of those pivotal moments and decisions that you made that really solidified your decision and your clear path to the C Suite?

Speaker A: I think the. Those moments are really. I would categorize them all as taking moments where I took a risk. And I say that in the context of I m am not a personal risk taker. I'm not an adrenaline junkie. I don't go do dangerous things. I'm financially relatively conservative. But I have been willing to take risks in my career to do things that are not on the normal hierarchical path. And that means that I probably could have moved up faster if I had stayed in one track and become an expert at that track. But those have absolutely. When people ask me internally or when I'm mentoring, how'd you get here? Absolutely. No question. Those are the moments when I'm gonna step off the leadership track and be an ic, and here's why. And that turned into this whole new skill set and partnerships you called out earlier. I took an IC job that was about managing a very strategic partnership and a very strategic moment. And of course, ended up learning the whole business that partner was in and then ended up building a team around that business. And then that team grew and took in other functions. But if I hadn't made that one singular decision, none of those things would have happened. And so I think it's so easy to be caught up in getting kind of moving up the ladder and getting to that next level of responsibility, scope, pay, and full respect. Of course, that's part of what we're doing at work. But it is always the moments where I try to put myself in the mode of, what am I trying to learn next? What's that thing I haven't done that's important to Me or is there a person I want to go to work for? And I would kind of do anything because I'm going to learn so much from them that take me on that next stage of the journey in ways that are unexpected and usually pretty remarkable.

Speaker B: Sounds like you had a really great belief system in your capabilities and what you could bring to the table.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, I would say, I think it's a combination of the lack, the fears and doubts and imposter syndrome that every single. Not every single, but let's say most normal people have and which I have deeply. I absolutely have deep confidence challenges where I'm asking myself, am I really all that? And my practical self, which is, I have done a lot of things. I have accomplished good work. I have impacted people's lives. I am capable and recognizing that. Again, while I don't take risks in my personal life, I would never put myself and my family in danger to do something cool.

Speaker B: I.

Speaker A: This is one place where work is a place you can take risks if they're smart and thoughtful and calculated with an understanding of the possible negative outcomes. And I believe in my practical ability to understand what's needed and amass the right skills and the right people, most importantly, who have the right skills to get things done. And I do believe in my broad leadership capabilities to understand problem statements, to bring the right people together to solution against those problem statements, and to act relatively quickly when, uh, you're balancing what level of quality you're trying to output with what level of resourcing you can practically put towards something. And I'm okay not always getting an A right. Sometimes that's going to be B quality work, and that's okay. And I think I've done a pretty decent job of understanding that, that dynamic. So, yeah, I, I'm willing to try a lot of things.

Speaker B: So what wisdom would, um, you have to share about ambition and the sacrifices and the pushing the boundaries, or that trusting your gut instinct to go down an unconventional path that you would share with women that I think that we need to hear more honestly and have those conversations. So what kind of advice would you give them about what you've learned about taking sometimes those calculated risks?

Speaker A: No, I think the turning point for me because I, uh, wasn't. I don't. I wasn't always confident in taking risks. I did it anyway. But m. More on. On need, like going far away to college or. I only applied to one college. My gosh, thank goodness I got in. But I'd say my biggest piece of advice is really deeply Understand your personal boundaries and value system. I mentioned that I'm financially fiscally conservative for myself, not as a political statement, but for myself. And, and that made me not take risks.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: That, that pushed me in a direction which was like, have great insurance, Go to a company that has an excellent retirement plan. Which, those are good things, and that's important. But it didn't. It really pushed me in the opposite direction. And I have to give my husband a lot of credit, who is very much of a risk taker. And on the opposite end of the spectrum on these things, who sits down and looks at what's the worst possible outcome? Well, you're not going to die. Uh, maybe it's not going to work. And maybe there's a financial outcome. Okay, what's the worst possible outcome from that? You'll go get a different job. Okay. And the worst possible outcome from that.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Is the five whys or one of those types of frameworks. And that's what I started doing. Okay, If I go and take this IC role, what's the worst possible outcome? I don't like it. They don't like me. It wasn't the right thing. I wasted a year. All those things are actually fine. Those are not major risks. Those are minor risks. And what are all the reasons to do it? The person that you want to work with, the problem you're going to get to solve, the things you're going to learn, the places that you'll have, the tables you'll have a chance to sit at. And so that's my mental model on these things, which is, I don't. I, uh, wouldn't describe myself as an ambitious person for the purposes of being ambitious, but I would describe myself as a person who wants to do epic. I don't want to apply my time and headspace and time away from my family to things that don't matter. And if aligning myself to that next epic, uh, thing requires me to do something that feels a little risky to me but is within my risk boundaries, my risk profile, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker B: If I like doing epic too. I love doing all that great big, juicy vision stuff, making that's. We're only here for a short period of time.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Jump in with both feet. And so we're calling this era. And I don't know if you feel it, but I believe that this is really a power era for women where the visibility, the influence and the leadership are all becoming very powerful tools for change. So, Kaya, in your view, what responsibility comes from a woman in a position of power today. And how can leaders use their influence to create more opportunities and visibility for other women?

Speaker A: Of course, there's tons of responsibility that, that plays into being in a position of leadership authority. Obviously you have responsibility to your business outcomes, whether you're self employed or you have shareholders or you work for someone else. You have responsibilities to your customers and that I take so seriously. You have responsibilities to your people and you have responsibilities to lead within your value system and within the value system of your employer, whoever that may be. And I say that as the broader landscape of leadership is, let's say theoretically and ideally starts gender free, right. Those are just the responsibilities, whoever you are, what, whatever you may be bringing to the table. And of course, as a woman, you are also a role model for other women who are asking themselves all of these same questions. What's my risk profile? What are my parameters for decision? Do I have the right and ability to take chances and make choices? And who will lift me up when it feels really scary or when I, I need it? And I'll be honest, most of my managers in my life have been men, almost all of them. And I have had like anyone does, some really incredible ones who I will absolutely never forget and some marginal ones who I. It's probably better to forget. And so I think you can be inspired by and lifted up by, by anyone. But as a woman, I absol. Feel a very strong responsibility to create space and always hire the very best people for what they bring to the table. But that also means making space to meet the very best people and to meet a diverse group of people so that you're not just in an echo chamber. And so I think all of that is, is why being a leader is hard. Because if you could just focus explicitly on one thing, deliver business outcomes. And it was like that easy. That sounds easier, right? But you have to focus on a broad, multi dimensional set of needs and requirements. And I'm in this unique moment in time where just yesterday we shared with the market that I was leaving this job that I've been in for the last three years and this company I've been at for the last 20. And I've had the opportunity to get a lot of amazing like hundreds and hundreds of these notes and emails and messages from people reminding me of a time when I lifted them up, of a time when I really made a difference in their lives. To their families, to, to their thinking on their career, whatever it may have been. And it's just been such a gift because ultimately that's the thing, right? Businesses are made up of humans, and you only get to business outcomes when humans and now working with AI, but still humans are operating at a high level of capacity and outp. And you only do that when humans feel seen. And I know I got a lot of notes from women saying I needed to see you there to believe I could be there. And of course that's not like a groundbreaking insight, but it's still a really beautiful moment when you have it. And I am deeply committed to creating those moments for myself, for others. And I feel lucky that I've been invested in, in a lot of ways that it makes it all about paying it forward and investing in others.

Speaker B: Beautiful. I love how you. How we can share a little bit of that today on the podcast with such a pivotal moment in your career. Like, how are you really feeling about it right now? Like, when you pressed send on that LinkedIn post, did you just run and go do some gardening or.

Speaker A: Honestly, uh, we're in our end of the fiscal year period and so we're doing our, uh, rewards process. And so I actually wrote two people's reward conversations right after. So I didn't even have a chance to think about it. But I, uh, feel really good, actually. Obviously these things are mixed emotions and all, but so much of my self has been wrapped up in this place and this business, and it's been. And it's been beautiful. I. What my younger son, both of my sons commented on that LinkedIn post, and my younger son really made me laugh because he said something like, to my second sibling, Microsoft, because Microsoft is just woven into the fabric of my family and who we are. And so I certainly felt like, gosh, I. This may be this crushing thing of this crushing moment of loss. And I actually felt really light because I've given it my all and Microsoft has given me so much. It's been a good value exchange. And I think there's something powerful about knowing when it's time to go apply yourself to something else and passing the reins to other great leaders. It felt great, actually. I feel really good.

Speaker B: I do have a question for the very end, and I'm going to save it for the very end because we're going to talk about what's next, but I'm going to. I pulled a little bit of something that you wrote in your post and that kind of spoke to me and I think it speaks to a lot of women. So listeners, stay tuned. We're going to say that one to the very end, but before we Move too far along. You did mention your husband and the support. And of course with universal women's network, inviting men to the conversation is really important to us and the importance of allyship. So I'm asking you, as a woman in a position of power, why is it so important that men are part of this conversation? And for sure as a boy mom as well. And when it comes to advancing in women in leadership and business, why do we need to really ensure that we have all of those voices represented and men in the room that are as our support her champions?

Speaker A: Yeah, I love talking about this, certainly as a boy mom in particular, but I think it starts with inclusion is only inclusive if everyone's included. Right? Inclusion can't be predicated on exclusion and that's the whole definition of it. And that doesn't mean that you don't need sort of moments in time with individual communities and groups of people. But at a macro level, if men aren't included in the conversation, then it becomes like anything does, an echo chamber of supporting oneself and doing all the work to support oneself. And that's exhausting. Right? Like when you have more people who are at the party who are part of the mission and part of the, the support for a given community, it becomes more powerful. And I also have these moments where, you know, I, I, I hear people who feel like men shouldn't be included in some of these conversations. And it's a little bit confusing to me because again certainly there are moments that need to be in intra community, but men have played a powerful role in helping me understand the business world around me, who have opened doors that I have then had a chance to kick open further for others and have been huge allies of mine in ways that were really authentic and beautiful and that helped me pay it forward to others. And I know so many amazing men. Obviously you hear about a lot of terrible things in the world that make you wonder. But in my life I have all of these amazing men. My husband is such an incredible supporter. My sons are obviously I'm obsessed with them and I just couldn't love them more and respect them more. And I work with a lot of incredible men as a person who has had a, for a long time had a majority women leadership team. I work with some really incredible men who as they learn and they become part of the conversation in a more substantial way about the experience that women have around them, have a lot of incredible input and energy to bring to the table to be part of the solution. And, and uh, I don't see Another way to do it.

Speaker B: I am a boy mom as well, and I, to be honest with you, I'm a little nervous about his ability to navigate the rooms as eloquently as I see young female leaders. Just because they don't. We just don't have those role models for men. I don't see that in the same way that we have such great role models for women. Very intentional role models outside of the hockey arena. They're the good examples about paving the way forward for others and including in lifting and championing for women. I love to hear that. I'm definitely on the same page as you, and if any of these supporters are listening, you know, a safe place is only always over here. So we'll take you all. Let's start that conversation. I also want to talk a little bit while we're talking about role models. And over the past decade, of course, I wanted to really amplify women and celebrate the achievements of women through the Woman of Inspiration Awards and through all of these other avenues in these ways, through media that we're able to do that. But I would love to know who are some of the women and men supporters who have really helped champion you and what did that look like?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, uh, thank. I love the opportunity to talk about some of the amazing people in my life. And as I mentioned earlier, almost all of the managers I've had in my entire career have been men. And so I will talk a little bit about some of these folks as well, and some of the moments that were really powerful to me, uh, and I'd say powerfully unexpected when I felt like I wished I had a female leader. And then these men stepped up and impacted me in quite remarkable ways. So one. One of my early managers in tech is a man named Roberto Moctezuma. I worked for him when I worked at Compaq Computers in Houston. And I was pregnant and really freaked out about losing my career and what was going to happen and if I would be able to do it.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And then I had my older son, Mason, who's now 25, and I just wasn't handling it well. I was. Had postpartum depression. I was. We're, uh, not in a good place. And. And when I was coming back to work, we were doing a layoff, and so I was talking to him about what was going to happen with the layoff and who would be impacted. Of course, it was a very hard conversation. And I said to him in that conversation, why don't you just put me on the list? And keep someone else who is ready to be here. Because I am, um. I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't know what's going to happen when I come back to work and if I'm going to be ready for this. And I was very emotional and hormonal, and I said, just put me on the list. And he said, I will not. I will not make your major life decisions for you. You have not even given me or yourself a chance to understand what it's going to take to support you coming back. And instead of putting you on the list, you, uh. I will ask you to please think about what it is that you need as far as you know it now, and give me a chance to engage with you on that. Because I can't imagine anything that's not doable. And this was a while ago, and it was one of the most powerful moments I've ever had. Because I worked in the Latin America division, it was mostly men. I never really would have thought to say, where can I pump? That just seemed like such a weird conversation to go have with my mail manager. But I said, where? Kind of, where will I pump? And he was like, why don't you just, when you need to just leave the meeting, tell people that you're leaving the meeting, go to your office, lock the door and call back in and mute yourself. That works for me if it works for you. And of course, we were fortunate at the time to have, like, offices where you could be private. It wouldn't have even occurred to me to ask for that because it just seemed like a, uh, taboo topic. And when I said it, he was like, yeah, anyway, check done. Next.

Speaker B: Easy.

Speaker A: What else you got? And I came back to work, and that totally changed my life, because it was hard and I did struggle. And I also knew that I was absolutely, unquestionably supported by this really amazing human.

Speaker B: And so where is he now? Because I think he needs to hear this.

Speaker A: We have not actually been in close touch lately, but he. Last I saw, he was doing consulting. He's on a bunch of boards. He's a brilliant entrepreneur. And. And I think still doing something at, uh, now hp.

Speaker B: Cool. Props.

Speaker A: Flowers to him. M. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Great story. And it's just. I think what we forget sometimes is that the men in the world, in our workplace, have wives, have daughters, have female presence, and they kind of know that these things are happening. And then it's just an opportunity now to make a change in the work environment. Because I truly do believe that a Man that is a supporter at home is the same person in the office, in the network. It just depends on the culture.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And so he built that culture.

Speaker A: Yes. And it was a long time ago, and it was unexpected, and it really. I was pretty young, and it really changed my perspective on the fact that, yeah, you can be a mom. And that was so simple. Just go in your office and call back in. Oh, no one's gonna be weirded out.

Speaker B: Get off the camera.

Speaker A: Yeah, off the camera. Fair enough. And. And over the years, obviously technology is better and remote work is a thing, and lots of things have changed that are enablers, but the biggest enabler is leadership.

Speaker B: Fabulous. Anybody else that you want to give some flowers to?

Speaker A: Yes, I definitely will. And actually, it is another band. But I worked. I had the opportunity to work for Rick Vanderkoy for, I think, eight, eight years at Microsoft. And I remember that he's a fabulous leader and a fabulous human and a really interesting, cool guy. Uh, and I remember this moment where I was managing a large strategic relationship. It was very complex and intense relationship, and we had a lot of internal goings on, strategizing about this partner. And I had one partner internally in particular, another senior leader, more senior than me, who was very intense. And I found him really. He really put me in a place where I didn't know how to react to him. Even though I don't think he was, like, doing anything intentionally, I found him very intimidating. And finally Rick said to me, like, what's going on? You know, I know you have an opinion. You state it clearly, you have a strategy, but when we're in these rooms, you are silent. What is happening? And we talked about it, and I shared how I felt and why I was feeling that way. And we strategized together. And he said, okay, so here's the role I'm going to play when I see you folding into yourself in these forums. I'm going to create the space for you and I'm going to tee you up because I know that you have an opinion on it, and I want you to step into that space and see how it feels, and then we can talk about it and we can work on it together. And, um, it completely changed the trajectory of my career. Just that, that experience of having someone say, I see you. I'm not judging you for this. I don't think it's a, ah, it's you lacking in some way. Um, but also you do need to work on it, because this is. It's not helpful. Um, we're not getting all of you in these conversations and, and then, and then being actionable about it. And of course then it's incumbent upon the person, it was incumbent upon me to respond and step into that space and take up a little more space, even though I felt intimidated. Um, and I think that it has changed everything in terms of even me being in this, the job that I, that I just loved.

Speaker B: Incredible. Well, props and flowers again. Um, you know, I want to bring. There was someone that gave you flowers in my last podcast that I did with, um, Jen Katula, and she brought something up and I, So I want to ask you about that too. And you might have some more, um, others that you want to bring to the forefront. But you were described as a leader who had a velvet hammer. And I'm just like, I had this mental picture of this, this strong, powerful woman that just, you know, she was bringing it down and people wouldn't know what hit them, but would still be respectful of where it came from. And so I thought that was like a really incredible, um, way to describe your leadership. So maybe you can share a little bit more about the Velvet Hammer. And of course, um, Jen is remarkable. Um, Simo with Microsoft Advertising.

Speaker A: Yes. Well, that was so kind of Jen. And she is so fabulous. I gotta, I gotta give her a lot of props. It's been so fun to work with her. Um, she is one of the most interesting people I know because she's very technical. She's an engineer by training and also the most positive, uplifting, just kind, interesting to engage with people. She's so optimistic. Um, she's, she's really a delight, uh, to work with. Um, and yeah, Velvet Hammer. Honestly, I was so humbled by, by this nickname. I thought it was such a compliment, um, when someone that I used to work with gave, uh, it to me, um, because it, it's really speaks to who I am, which is I like to get shit done. I'm very direct. I, I want to move the business forward with speed. I'm, you know, as we talked about earlier, I'm not afraid to take risks. Uh, and I, I don't like to, I don't like to mess around. And I believe in being kind and being humane. And I think the most powerful thing that you can accomplish as a leader is the ability to do both well and to hold yourself to a very high bar. That, you know, I had someone say to me once after they behaved poorly in a meeting with others, um, well, you look, I'm an executive and sometimes that's going to happen. And I was like, oh, I mean, that's a choice, though. Ah, that it doesn't just happen. It's a choice. You make that okay for yourself. And, And I'm not going to say that I've never behaved badly in a meeting. I mean, that would certainly be untrue. It happens. But, uh, but also, it's not okay. Um, so for me, Velvet Hammer is such a compliment because it says that I am accomplishing that goal and, and rising to that bar that I've set for myself, which I think honestly is more important than ever right now with the pace of change and the excitement around technologies today, which is objectively exciting. Um, it. It can also create an excuse for people to, you know, be less kind or be less humane because things are moving fast, and I think that's a low bar. And, and sorry, one last thing. Someone, uh, that I used to work with, Rob Wilk, shout out Rob Wilk. He works at Yahoo now, um, actually gave me a hammer that he had glue gunned red velvet around as a. An award that he presented to me at an internal event. And I have it on my desk. I look at it every single day. It brings me joy. I think of Rob, I think of that time, and I think, like, you know, this is the bar, and I'm always striving to hit it.

Speaker B: Sounds like that would be a great book. A velvet hammer.

Speaker A: Well, Monica, you heard it here, right

Speaker B: here on the Woman of Inspiration podcast, where we make dreams come true.

Speaker A: That's right. I love it. Well, I am going to write a book, at least one. And I had somehow not thought of that, but so thank you.

Speaker B: So I can do a forward for you.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Well, fabulous. I am just enjoying this conversation so much. Um, you know, there's. We're almost out of time, but there are a couple questions I do want to sneak in here. Um, you know, celebrating women is really probably one of my greatest joys and missions, is just to put women to the spotlight. There's. Every woman has a story. And so why do you believe that it's so important that we intentionally celebrate the achievements of women and leadership?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the way that I. The way that I think about it, beyond as a human, really loving to celebrate things because the world is a heavy damn place. And celebration is a. You know, I have a. I have a friend who always reminds me that joy is an act of resistance and celebration is a part of joy. And so in general, that's part of my philosophy. Um, but also when you. You Know, celebrating individual moments needs to add up to a culture of celebration, a culture of viewing people's inputs and outcomes as something worthy of celebration. And when you build that culture, which then is, is a more scalable thing, uh, than, than the individual moments, you know, you build psychological safety, psychological safety builds innovation, innovation builds outcomes. And so kind of, you know, like what we were discussing about the velvet hammer, it's that you can take moments of joy and build them into something that is more structural as a strength, something that builds a moat around your business from a competitive perspective. And both of these things can coexist. And when you're lifting up women and celebrating the work of women, you're not only creating those individual moments and contributing to that culture, but you're also saying to the culture that inclusion matters because not just because it's about being human and humane, but also because it's about generating outcomes and generating better outcomes. So, yeah, for me, it is such a holistically important part of the formula of business success and personal success. Because, you know, again, I'm in this sort of weird, interesting, cool, personal moment where people are reminding me of moments. I celebrated them, um, and what it meant to them. And some of these are 20, 30 years later that when I remember it myself, I think, but that was so cool. It was so worthy of celebration. You are in a position where you should be seen. And, uh, you know, you connect yourself together with all of these people in your life and it's. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful chain.

Speaker B: Well, I am, um, super excited that we're like the first coming out podcast to, um, celebrate this next chapter for you. And you know, I said earlier that I was going to draw something back. I have, by the way, I have, like, so many more questions. We're gonna have to do this again. But, um, when we talk about. You said something and I'm going to read it, um, I'm excited to reclaim my identity. Just for me, not tethered to where I work or what I do, but tethered to who I am, what I'm interested in, the people I surround myself with and the values that ground me. So I just, I. When I read your post, I'm like, oh, that's such gold. Because I really do find that whether you're building your business, and I mean as a business owner, I know this, you're tied to the brand, and whether you're working within a large business or a company, you're part of that brand. You said, you know, like your Mason's like, Microsoft's my baby brother. Right? So you know what, I just thought that was really interesting and cool for you to say. Now I'm reclaiming, um, my identity just for me. And so, um, after 20 years at Microsoft that you've carved a beautiful career. What is this next chapter about reclaiming and redefining who Kai is beyond the role?

Speaker A: Well, thank you for asking. And yes, this is the coming out podcast, so it's so great to, to have a chance to talk with you about it. Um, a few things. I mean, first of all, I am going to decompress and enjoy the Pacific Northwest summer. And if you've never spent time here in the summer, highly recommend 10 out of 10. Um, and I have a big swing ahead of me and I am, um, um, going to figure out what that is. I care a lot about conversational advertising and how the industry does that well, and so I'm interested in potentially something there. I have a vision of convincing LEGO to hire me to run partnerships with the music industry because I have so many great ideas for Grateful Dead inspired LEGO sets. Um, so if you know anyone at

Speaker B: Lego, Lego, are you listening?

Speaker A: Hello?

Speaker B: This is how it happens.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Um, you know, I've been, been talking to, um, a couple of, um, startups and other folks about doing some advising. Um, so in general, I, I want to explore some things that are really interesting to me and then I want to take a big swing at them. And uh, we talked a little bit about writing. I am a passionate writer. I, you know, I'm gonna get back to that moment with my mom and I'm gonna circle back to, to writing something. Um, and so I, uh, I'm going to, I'm going to work on that a little bit. And my husband gave me a very uncomfortable challenge, um, that he wants me to learn how to drive our boat by myself and I feel very inadequate. And so apparently I'm going to take a boater's licensing class and learn how to do that. But, um, yeah, it's going to be a busy summer and I'm super excited about all of it. Um, I've been thinking about Microsoft for a really long time and I am so excited to have the opportunity to think about some other things.

Speaker B: M. Well, I'm sure you're going to be widely missed and not forgotten and always part of that, Always a Microsofter. So, um, yeah, I can see that continuing. Um, I also want, before we let go, a, ah, couple rapid fire questions. What is a book that you're Currently reading for all our book lovers here. Yes.

Speaker A: Well, I'm currently reading the Hail Mary project or Project Hail Mary. And I've got to say, do not read the book. Went so close to seeing the movie. This is my new, my new insight. But it's, it's a great book, but I think they're too close together. Um, and another recent book that I really, really loved, um, was the Correspondent. I. It's such a beautiful book. I really recommend to everyone. Um, really lovely.

Speaker B: Um, an app you can't live without.

Speaker A: Uh, music apps. I am a huge music lover. I listen to music all the time. Uh, my husband and I go to tons and tons of live shows. And so you do not try to take Spotify from my cold dead hands. Um, and little Plug to Nugs, which most people have never heard of. It is an app that streams live shows and it is Chef's Kiss. Exceptional.

Speaker B: Beautiful. While listeners can hear the Woman of Inspiration podcast on Spotify. So that's a nice little plug there. Um, and one word that defines this next chapter of yours.

Speaker A: I think I'm going to say values. Um, I've always been a very values based person and I think there's just going to be so much interesting and exciting stuff out there to think about and focus on. And, um, I'm really excited to align choices to values, um, and to purpose.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Well, those, all of those things are right in my wheelhouse. We're gonna have more conversations. Um, and this wouldn't be the Woman of Inspiration podcast, of course, without finding out what your definition of a woman of inspiration is to you.

Speaker A: Uh, I mean, the women that inspire me are women who have, and use agency. And, and I don't know that that's, that's female only. But, um, it's, it's hard to step into your power. It's uncomfortable. It, uh, doesn't feel right sometimes. And the world doesn't tell you that you have agency. The world tells you, in fact, that, that you don't. And so women who exercise real agency over their own choices and have deep courage and conviction are so inspirational to me because they remind me that even when I'm scared, which is more often than anyone would ever know from the outside, um, that it's still a choice.

Speaker B: Bravo. Love it. Love it. And wrapping up this amazing Woman of Inspiration podcast with Kaia Sainsbury Carter, what message would you have for our listeners to remember about her potential voice and to lead with courage, authenticity, impact, anything to leave our listeners with today?

Speaker A: I would leave our listeners today with the fact that, um, you know, life, life is heavy, the world is heavy, things feel hard, especially right now. And the thing that gives me joy every day, of course my family, my, you know, amazing husband and children is, but is also my female friends. Um, I am so lucky to be in a community of strong, fierce, loyal, funny, smart, hard working women who love me and are not afraid to tell me when I'm screwing up and who are not afraid to celebrate me when I merit it. And it's a game changer. And so surround yourself with a community of strong women who love you and who call you on your bullshit and who celebrate your wins. And, um, and really everything is. Everything else is noise.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Kaya, for spending this time on the Women's Inspiration podcast. Listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast session, I'm going to say, please share widely. There is going to be someone that needs to hear any of these messages that we shared. There was so many, um, amazing nuggets of wisdom. Um, thank you again, Kai. I look forward to having a bigger conversation. And congratulations on your next chapter.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Monica. I really enjoyed being here.

Speaker B: Thank you.