Win Make Give with Ben Kinney · 2026-10-30 · 32 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
29 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Bob Stewart brings a personal challenge to this episode: the struggle between making himself useful by repeatedly solving the same problems for people versus actually helping them grow and become independent. After realizing he'd solved an identical issue for someone two months apart, Bob and Chad map out a diagnostic framework for helper relationships. The key insight is that surface-level requests often mask deeper issues - the person frustrated by a broken button might actually be drowning in financial pressure, or someone saying they lack time might need to reconsider priorities or leverage AI tools rather than have the work done for them. Rather than jumping into solution mode, effective helpers ask: Is this an emergency? Is it a skills gap, resource constraint, or repeated broken commitment? What can they own? What realistic next step will they commit to before getting further help? The episode resonates particularly for business operators, managers, and anyone in advisory roles who regularly field requests for help. Chad and Bob emphasize that genuine help builds capability, not dependency - a lesson parents know well but professionals often forget.
Hosted by Win Make Give Podcast Network. The show scores 43.5/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
Ask whether you're providing relief (solving their immediate problem) versus fostering growth (equipping them to solve it themselves). If you solve the same problem for someone repeatedly after they've agreed to handle it, you're making yourself needed rather than helping them grow.
Ask: Is this a true emergency? Is there a skills gap, resource shortage, or broken commitment? If it's a skills gap or resource issue, help them close it; if it's a repeated broken commitment, you may need to stop helping. If you decide to help for growth, agree on what they will own and what realistic next step they'll take before you provide additional support.
Often because you solved their problem without helping them understand the underlying value or teaching them how to do it themselves, so next time the same issue arises, they come back to you instead of handling it on their own.
Agree on a clear, realistic next step that the person will own and commit to doing, and make it clear you won't provide additional help until they complete that step - this prevents the cycle of repeated requests for the same help.
Step back and ask genuine clarifying questions like whether anyone died, is bleeding, or going to jail - help them recalibrate what actually constitutes an emergency versus what's just urgent-feeling, and distinguish between their emergency and yours.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode surfaces a handful of practically useful questions (what is needed, what can they own, what can I honestly offer, what happens next) but buries them in significant filler - an extended vacuuming tangent, a dog-story recovery, a Costco gas anecdote, and a house-cleaning digression. The actual insight could be delivered in under five minutes.
Did I just help somebody and give them relief, or did I assist them in a way that's going to allow them to grow?
agree on a clear next step they can realistically take and make that a precursor to any other help that you agree to give them
The central thesis is a repackaging of 'teach a man to fish' for a business-coaching context, and every supporting idea - ask clarifying questions, set commitments, don't over-promise - is standard coaching canon. The 'promise' technique and the 'increasing choices vs. control' framing have some rhetorical freshness but nothing is genuinely counterintuitive or first-principles.
Are you increasing their choices? Are you increasing their ability, or are you increasing your control?
I'll say, you can get it done by Friday. Yep. I say, promise. Promise me you can get it done by Friday.
There are no guests - this is a two-host format with Chad Himes and Bob Stewart, who appear to be internal operators at a real estate company. No professional credentials, seniority, or domain expertise are established; examples come exclusively from unnamed internal interactions.
Chad Himes here and Bob Stewart there
the role I play inside of our company
All examples are anonymised and thin - 'a lady,' 'somebody,' 'a person two months ago' - with zero metrics, dollar figures, company names, or research cited. The most concrete data point in the episode is the podcast episode count (676 entries since February 2020), which is unrelated to the topic.
had a lady that came to me, and she's like, I know that you guys talk about, you know, setting this thing up on everybody in my database
I went back, I even pulled the recording. I had my AI summarize the recording
Chad occasionally pushes Bob to re-state key points and frames summary questions decently ('Say that again, Bob Stewart'), but the dynamic is overwhelmingly mutual affirmation with no genuine pushback, no challenged assumptions, and no productive disagreement. Follow-ups rarely deepen the idea.
Say that again, Bob Stewart.
Are we helping or are we just making ourselves needed by talking and nobody's actually listening anymore?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
There is a fine line between stepping up for someone and enabling them to stay dependent. When you keep solving the exact same problem for the same person, your help isn't changing their situation - it's just making you their first call next time. True generosity builds someone's capability, choice, and dignity. Controlling help keeps you at the center while hiding behind good intentions. In this episode of Win Make Give, we tear apart the difference between giving real relief and feeding your own need to be needed. Learn the four critical questions to ask before stepping in, how to handle pattern rescues with employees, friends, and family, and how to give support that actually drives growth instead of resentment. Hit play to audit your help, establish clear boundaries, and ensure your support actually builds the people around you. -
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Foreign, Um, to the Wind, Make Give podcast. Chad Himes here and Bob Stewart there. Bob. How you doing today,
Speaker B: Chad? I'm pretty good, man. I'm pretty good. How you doing?
Speaker A: I'm recovered. Wait,
Speaker B: should I tell the story I just told you on the podcast? No. No,
Speaker A: you should not. We will keep that story between us. Uh, I was just gonna say, Bob, sometimes we film two or three or we record two or three episodes in a RO day based on how our schedules work. Uh, I needed a few minutes after the last one again, I don't know what order they'll drop in. It was an interview with tj. Sweet. Uh, tj, thank you.
Speaker B: I
Speaker A: had to go cry in the corner. I told you I was gonna go cry in the corner when the episode was over. Not because TJ was mean to me. Uh, TJ told a dog related story. And I cannot, to this day, I will not watch Marley and Me again because I just know the whole movie. I'm going to be crying when we get to the end, folks. Chad does have emotions when it comes to dogs and cats. The rest of you, you're on your own. Uh, um, Bob, so. So I needed a little recovery time.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: On that one. Forgive me for. For taking it. Folks, I want to give you a behind the scenes Pete at When make give. And Bob and I, I mean, we've been doing this a long time now. Bob, I think you said we've broken 600 episodes or so.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I want to say that's what my instinct, um, AI assistant told me earlier.
Speaker A: They went out there, checked it, found 600 or so episodes at least. Um,
Speaker B: yeah, 676 entries from February of 2020 through October 12th.
Speaker A: Okay. So I
Speaker B: did count some trailers we've dropped in there, counted a couple of replays that. Where we've run back an episode. I know we replayed the well series at one point, but. Yeah,
Speaker A: got it. Okay. So to be fair, so we're. We're rounding down because we're figuring some of those are duplicate things that are run in there. So we've done 600 episodes on this, folks. Sometimes we, uh, come. I mean, we never come scripted, but sometimes Bob and I come with a lot of notes in front of us ready to go. This is not one of those episodes. Right. Sometimes I tell Bob, just show up because I've got something and it's out of left field, and I don't want him to prepare. I want to catch Bob off guard to get real authentic so he doesn't have time to come up with a story in advance or whatever that might be. This one you worked on, Bob, uh, and you sent over to me about, uh, 30 seconds or so before we began and said, chad, here's the outline for today's episode. I don't really know which way we're going to go with this. I just had some thoughts, scribbled them down, turn them into this, and let's see what happens, folks. That's what happens here at winmake. Give. If you have a topic that you're sitting out there going, hey, this fits in that health, wealth, leadership and legacy concept of win, make, give. And I want to hear Chad and Bob's take on it. A few of you have done it before. Just message one of us on Facebook, email us. You probably have our email if you're listening to this. If you don't, it's pretty easy for both of us, right? It's my name, Gmail dot com if you want me. Uh, Bob, if you want to put yours out there,
Speaker B: wait by email.
Speaker A: Yeah, Easiest way for them to message you. Which one of the ones do you want to give?
Speaker B: Uh, how about I'll make it easy. Bob@place.com.
Speaker A: there you go. Bob@place.com. uh, and you probably have our phone numbers. We've given them before. If you want to text us yet if you have a topic, Bob and I sometimes will do a lot of research on it, and sometimes we'll take your topic and I'll tell Bob. Uh, Bob, we got a request. And here we go. Right. So we're ready to go. So we're gonna have some fun with today's episode. Bob, tell me before we get into today's episode, what inspired today's episode that made you say, I want to dive deeper into this topic.
Speaker B: So a couple things that, um, uh, I'll give you, like, the over the overarching, like, theme, like, um,
Speaker A: don't use real names.
Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, that's fair. Um, day in and day out, in. In the. The job that I play, the role I play inside of our company, I struggle. This is like a personal thing. I struggle between. I get a lot of people reaching out and they need help.
Speaker A: Yep,
Speaker B: they need. They need. They need help. And. And I struggle with where the, uh, where my line is between, like, am I helping them or am I, like, making myself needed by them? Right. And like. And this happened yesterday where I had helped somebody, Chad, with. With a thing. And. And after I'd got done helping them with it, I stopped and I'm like, I Think I've done that exact same. I think I've helped that person with that exact same thing, like, two months ago. And it made me even. I'm like, am I losing my mind? Or like. Like, am I having deja vu right now? And I, like, went into my text and I'm, like, pulling up communication with that person from, like, a couple months, and I'm like, yes, like, I did help them. And it just made me go down this path of, like, am I doing people at this? Like, am I helping people to, like, not to their benefit? You know, like, it makes me ask the question, like, did I help you today or am I, like, setting you up to help yourself? I guess.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So I don't know. That's kind of where this comes from. And I. This happens to me, like, every week. There's something where I'm like, am I having deja vu right now? I feel like I've, like, I didn't help that person clear that I helped them get past their little thing they needed that day, but I didn't equip them, Chad, to, you know, actually not need me anymore. Really.
Speaker A: Right. So what you're saying, Bob, is you help them, yet you set them up to need your help again in two months from now, one more time to say, bob, I'm here again. Oh, yeah, let me do the magic button thing that I do to fix it instead of. Let me teach you how to solve this so next time it comes up, you can handle it on your own.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Like, did I help you or did I set you up to help yourself? Really? Right.
Speaker A: Okay. All right. So that's what we're talking about here today, right? Helping people. Sometimes we do it again and again and again and again. Bob, would you find that that's just because it's easier for me to say, get out of the way, I'm going to do it. Or is it because we think we're actually being helpful when those situations occur?
Speaker B: I think that all, like, uh, most of us. I shouldn't say all. I think many of us have, like, a propensity or we lean towards wanting to be helpful. Like, wanting to. To feel needed, maybe to. To help somebody else out. Like, that's a pretty common. I mean, you look at young,
Speaker A: especially men. I don't mean to cut you off, Bob. It. And I'm not being, um. Especially men. Right. We. We. We want to solve. Right. Men always want to fix. And women are always saying, will you just be quiet and listen? Right. It's. And I Always refer back to white, uh, men can't jump. Right. I, too, have been thirsty. Right. If you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about there. Um, that's what you're talking about, of us having that natural instinct of as people, not just as mammon, as people to help others.
Speaker B: Right. But it's like. But how do you know, like, which. Which side are you falling to? Right. I think that's what I want to try to uncover a little bit, is like, you know, so I. I have a couple questions, Chad, that I've. I've, you know, I've started really trying to figure out, like. Like, what am I doing here? Am I helping this person? Or. So the first one is like, um. Because, by the way, like, sometimes people come to you, they just need, like, relief. Right? They just. They have a problem, they need relief, and they need that, and you can give them that relief, and that feels good.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: By the way. Right. Um, but what. What they really wanted, and maybe they didn't even know it or what. Maybe what they should have showed up is looking to grow.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And so there's this difference between, did I just help somebody and give them relief, or did I. Did I assist them in a way that's going to allow them to grow?
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Right. So, like, I start. I. I want to start by thinking of things, like a couple of questions. So first one is like, am I solving their actual problem? Right? Like, is it the one we want to fix? And I'll give you an example. So, um, had a lady that came to me, and she's like, I know that you guys talk about, you know, setting this thing up on everybody in my database, but, like, I, you know, how did she. She said, uh, you know, I don't really have the time or something. I said, look, I. I can. I can help with that. But her problem wasn't that she didn't know how to do it or she couldn't. She couldn't. Her actual problem, when I got digging in with her a little deeper, was she didn't understand the value of going and doing that thing.
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: And so, Chad, had I just been like, hey, let me solve that problem for you. Right. The next time that thing came up again, and she thought, uh, oh, they're telling me I got to do this. She would have just come back to have us solve the problem again because she didn't understand the value of solving that problem herself. Okay? So the. The first thing I'm looking at is like, hey, when somebody comes to me, like, and they're asking for something. Is that actually what they're asking for?
Speaker A: Okay. And, Bob, the first thing we should do when someone asks a question would be to come right back to them and ask them a clarifying question.
Speaker B: 100.
Speaker A: All right? So in her situation, she didn't understand the value of it. You might have come back with a question that said, do you see the value of this? Right. And that might be one of those questions that we're regularly answering. Yes. If my mom's VCR is still flashing 12, I might just go push the freaking buttons and set it for her. Um, because she's got her cell phone now and she doesn't even care yet. We need to ask more questions before we just solve their first question, because their first question is probably not the real question that they're dealing
Speaker B: with. Yeah, it's. It's. It's very rarely the. The root. Right? And so if we go solve their. Their question, we did not help them grow or understand it. Like, uh, here's another one that. This happens to me all the time. People come to me and they go, hey, can you fix this thing? I'm so frustrated,
Speaker A: right?
Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah, uh, yeah, let us get this thing fixed for you. Right? But their frustration isn't coming from that thing that's. That's not working. That button they pushed that didn't do the thing. Right? Like, and sometimes I used to, Chad, when I would be confronted with this, I would think, like, what? Like, why are they even worried about that? You know? Like, that, uh, don't worry about that. Look over here. There's all this over here. That's what you should be focused on. But I realized that, like, when somebody would come to me for the broken button thing, it wasn't because the button was broken. It was because, like, when I asked deeper, it was because they. They didn't know how to use it, or it was because they were having a really hard time in their business, and they had a lot of pressure financially on them, and they're like, you know, they were coming off as irritated by this button, but the reality is they just have, like, a lot of pressure in their life. So there's. It's very rarely that first thing they're asking about that we could solve for them that wouldn't actually help them grow is the actual thing they're coming to us for. That makes sense.
Speaker A: Yes. So, folks, remember, when someone comes to you with a question and a lot of people don't do this, instead of answering the question, ask a question back to get clarity on what the question truly is that they're dealing with. Right. I had a guy, I was at, uh, Costco getting gas. Bob. And the most frustrating thing about getting your gas at Costco is you have to put two cards in the thing, right. It's not just swipe my payment card or tap it or whatever. It's. I got to put my Costco card in first. Then I go. And it was not reading the, the credit card. And there was a helper. And I had him come over and he said, what's your frustration? Right? Because he could see I was being frustrated. And I said, it's just, it's not doing this. He said, show me. Right? And of course I did it. He said, what if we attempted this? And he showed me another way to get the card to actually read. And, uh, he said, why don't you give this attempt for now. He's giving me a solution to my problem. So next time I show up, if this doesn't work, he's shown me that that might work to alleviate my frustration. It wasn't a deep, meaningful. Oh, no. I really needed, you know, something completely different. Yet he was able to find multiple solutions to give me of ways to do something.
Speaker B: So, Chad, I tend to immediately go towards solution mode. Help you
Speaker A: with
Speaker B: that one thing you brought, which is probably not allowing you to grow. Uh,
Speaker A: yes.
Speaker B: Right. And so I've tried to slow down a little bit. And like, when I get these, when I get these things, I'm trying to assess, like, what do they need right now?
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: Like, is this. Was this like. And then, like, where's the gap between what they need and, and like, how they're going to actually get it right? What. What's the gap between what they need? Or give you an example. So let's just say, um, that lady. So in our world, I'm talking, she didn't know why she had to set a market report up that was going to educate her clients, right. She was just like, I don't know, it doesn't seem that value. And so I was like, immediately we're like, okay, we need to get these things set up for her. I could go do it like that and off she'd go. But she wouldn't have saw the value in it. There'd be no growth for her. So, um, it wasn't an emergency. That's like the first thing I was like, is this an emergency? No. Some people come to you with the things. They consider it an Emergency. And sometimes you have to make really hard decisions to go, that might be an emergency for them, but that's not an emergency for me or some people. Chad, you've had these people in your life around you. Everything's a frigging emergency. And you got to just know that. And you got to back them off of the ledge, right? You're like, okay, look, it's okay. Did anybody die? No. Is anybody bleeding out? No. Is, like, anybody going to jail really soon? No. Okay. It's probably not an emergency, right? Like, um, so that's the. And so then I start to look at, okay, is there a skills gap here?
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: And a lot of times what I would do is just. I would go do the work so they didn't have to enhance the skill. I've gotten a lot better recently. And look, AI makes the, like, a lot of times the skill gap. We can just have an AI assistant go plug that skill gap, right? I can't tell you how many times I've said, like, which AI assistant are you using these days? And they tell me, and I'm like, okay, huh. Have it. Go do that. Like, it can close that skill gap for you. Um, occasionally,
Speaker A: one of them set up my new fire stick for me. Do you know, can I just have, like, Claude or one of the connect. Can they just take care of that for me? So
Speaker B: Elon's robots that can actually walk in your house and plug the stick in or whatever. Um, and then it could be sometimes, like, a lack of resources, right?
Speaker A: Like,
Speaker B: it could have been for that lady that she just had a lack of time, right? And so then, like, if I go solve her problem for her, like, maybe that wouldn't have been good, because next time she's also going to have a lack of time. And, Chad, I should have had a conversation with her about leverage and a virtual professional or her AI assistant, like,
Speaker A: or prioritizing or whatever it might have been.
Speaker B: You got it. You got it. And then the last thing, though, and this happens to me all the time, is like, is this a repeated thing where we've already done this before and they are not kind of keeping up their side of the commitment that they committed to the last time we had this conversation. And that was what drove this whole thing. Because when I went back on that, you know, I told you, hey, I'd had somebody on here. And two months ago, I'm like, I'm pretty sure I had this conversation. I went back, I even pulled the recording. I had my AI summarize the recording I'm like, will you go, go listen to this recording and tell me, did this person agree to do a couple things that I just asked them again two months later to do that they agreed to do? Yeah, sure enough, they had agreed to do that previously. And so it became like now if I, if I. It became a different conversation. Chad.
Speaker A: Sure.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: And Bob, it's a great question when someone's coming to you and asking them. Right. And you might think that what Bob's saying, ask these questions in your head. What if you ask him out loud? Bob, let me ask you about this. This you're coming to me with blank, whatever it is. Bob, let me ask, is this truly an emergency? Is there a skills gap? Is there a lack of resource to get it done, or is it that there's a commitment you're just not keeping that would never have put you in this situation in the first place?
Speaker B: Yeah, because my, like, I, uh, don't want to sound pump. My time is valuable, especially as, like,
Speaker A: everyone's time is valuable to them.
Speaker B: Yeah, Right. And as I move through my day, because I know that at the end of the day, things getting shut down, Chad, I'm going to go spend time with my family. Like, I got to get the things done. And so I'm making a decision around your answers to those questions of how much time I'm going to commit to helping you or am I going to try to potentially, like, help you grow? Or maybe if you're. If it's the last question and it's like you've made commitments before, we've tried to help you get with. It could be that I'm just like, I, um, unfortunately, I have to wash my hands. I can't help you.
Speaker A: Right. You've proven to me that I can't help you because you keep dropping what you say you're going to do, which is practice, so that you're better to do it and I can help you go to the next level. You're absolutely right, Bob. Which would lead us to question number two. Which is.
Speaker B: Which is if I decide, like, okay, this is something I do want to engage. Right. And I want to do it from a growth perspective. Like, I don't want to do it. I'm just gonna, like, if I decide. Yes. And I'm always just helping them. Like, we could all go do that because I clearly, they came to me. I have the skills to go do whatever they asked for. Right,
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Um, but if we decide, okay, like, I'm gonna use an opportunity to help this person grow immediately, I'm thinking to myself, what can they own?
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And then this is really important. And by the way, half the people that ask. It's more than half, 80% of the people that ask you for help when you agree on what they can own to go help themselves essentially grow. Here's the next, uh, agree on a clear next step they can realistically take and make that a precursor to any other help that you agree to give them.
Speaker A: Say that again, Bob Stewart.
Speaker B: I agree, Chad. You agree. You're gonna let me. I'm gonna help you. And we agree. I'm gonna help you. We're going to have to figure out, Chad, what is the realistic next step you're gonna do on this thing? And maybe I'm going to coach you through how to do that. Right. But, um, you are going to own it. And I am going to. When we leave there, I'm going to say, okay, Chad, we agreed that's the next step. Right? You have to take that next step. And then when you take it, right. If you're not sure what the step after that is, you can come back. But I'm not helping you again until you take the next step. Which again goes back to the last question, which is, did they commit to doing this before? Now they're back later asking for the same help that they asked for because they never took the stinking step we agreed to.
Speaker A: Yeah, and it's hard, folks, because naturally we want to just help the person, yet we can't. Especially parents should understand this a little more. You help your kid, you help your kid, you help your kid. Sooner or later, though, folks, your kid can't do it on their own if you just keep doing it all the time for them. You have to help them help themselves because at some point they're going out into the real world.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh,
Speaker B: yeah.
Speaker A: So,
Speaker B: right. It was. I mean, I could think of lots of examples of raising these boys over the last 10 years where it's like, I could have done that thing easily. In fact, I struggle with those things.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Like,
Speaker A: I could just make my kids bed for them and just have them have a nice clean bed and said, no, I've got to teach them how to make the bed. And now they have to own making the bed every day. And if it's a little sloppy, it's a little sloppy. Yet it's not my job to keep doing it for them or feeding the dog. If they're agreeing to have a pet in the house or whatever. It could be, folks, so what is needed right now was question one. Then Bob's asking, what can they own in there
Speaker B: and what is the next step and what are they agreeing to before I allow myself to be additional help?
Speaker A: Okay, then the next question, Bob, I'm going to ask is,
Speaker B: this is one that, uh, like, I. Probably, for the first decade of my career, I just never asked, but it was like, what can I honestly offer you as hell? And a lot of times this goes to just time.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Right. Um.
Speaker A: Because they're gonna want all day if they can get it.
Speaker B: Sure, sure. If I could. If I could do all that for you. Like, nobody's ever gonna say, well, I don't know. Very few people are gonna be like, wow, you're willing to help me with that much? I don't need that much. I only need half.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Whatever you're willing to give, they're gonna take. And so it's like, what can I honestly offer? Like, what kind of resources? Like, if somebody came to me, if. If one of the people in our company came to me and said, hey, we. We really need help on this thing, there's a bug over here. Like, I have to be honest about, like, okay, what development resources do we have? Can I freeze some of that up? How much is it going to take? And I might have to say, sorry. Like, I could tell you I'm going to help you, but I don't have the resources to actually go do it.
Speaker A: Okay,
Speaker B: Right. So we have to, like, really, um. And don't promise
Speaker A: over. Promise under. Commit.
Speaker B: No promise. Or things that you can't actually deliver.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: That's, you know, seems obvious, I guess, like, today in my brain today. But that was not obvious to me for 10 years. Like, I just kind of wanted to feel needed. Would. Would. Yep. Yeah, we can get that done. And then I'd hang up and I'd be like, oh, God dang, why did I even do that? You know?
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: Never felt like that. Why did I even offer to help?
Speaker A: Okay. And folks, that's an important one to remember of, um, what can I honestly. And Bob made sure that word was in the notes there. Right? What can I honestly offer? Because we want to give people everything we can to help them so that they think we're that much more awesome and special and. And appreciate us and. And all the things that deliver yet, folks, sometimes we can't give everything they want, and we have to realize what we can honestly give and where that ends. All right? Otherwise, I mean, you'll be on, uh, an appointment that'll Go three hours longer than it needed to because you didn't commit to. I can honestly give them an hour. They'll take four if they can get it out of you, to help them learn, grow, do what they or not do so that you can do for them. Bob, you had four questions. The last one
Speaker B: would just be like, what happens next? Like, you're gonna. And hopefully, like, I think question two, maybe line that out, right? We're gonna get them to agree to it,
Speaker A: which was, what can they own? Yeah, that was question two.
Speaker B: And, like, literally, what is the next step? But it's like, a lot of times when you're helping, it's kind of this ongoing thing, right? You'll be like, all right, here's what I would do. Why don't you go out and try that and. And then let me know how that goes, right? It'd be something like that. And so it's like, no, I used to be like, okay, and then let me know how that goes. Right? Today, like, especially internally in our company, it'll be, all right, here's the advice that I would. I would give you. Here's the tool or the resource or the person I'd go grab to help with that. Um, for me, what happens? And I always do this. I'll say, what's a realistic timeframe that you think you can get that next step done by? And they'll say, Friday. And I'll say, are you sure? Yep. Now, I've started out in this recently because Ben does this to me all the time. I'll say, you can get it done by Friday. Yep. I say, promise. Promise me you can get it done by Friday. I promise I can get it done by Friday. And that's. And then we agree we're going to. We're going to check in on Friday.
Speaker A: That's a magical word, isn't it?
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A: Because when someone says promise, now, you're going to hesitate and go, can you give me till Monday?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Well, actually, you know what? I got a pretty full day on Friday. Uh, yeah, totally. Like,
Speaker A: that's a powerful word, that.
Speaker B: Probably 50% of the time I say that the answer. The answer changes to account for whatever it is their little
Speaker A: brain
Speaker B: is calculating.
Speaker A: Right. And you never know that something's going to come up and you're going to be like, well, I don't know, maybe the kid's sick to tomorrow morning all of a sudden. I. I can't deliver by Friday. I said I would. That. That's a great one to re. To Then revisit Bob on Friday or whatever that day would be, and make sure they're doing what needs to be done. Uh, I think that's a powerful, powerful one. So your questions were, what is needed now? What can they own? Right. What can I honestly offer? And then you added in what happens next? Which probably really comes back as. As tied to that. What can they own? Because that's going to be what happens next. If this is asking and giving that clear, clear guidance at the end of it. I think you had a statement written here in your notes for me, Bob. I really like this, that says, are you increasing their choices? Are you increasing their ability, or are you increasing your control?
Speaker B: Yeah. Uh,
Speaker A: and I think that's a really powerful one because the more you do for them, the more control you have, the more times they just. I mean, I don't know how many times my lovely wife just hands me her phone and make it do this, because to me, it was always just easier to say, give me the phone and I'll set it up to do that for you. Instead of showing her and helping grow that skill with her, it was just give it to me now. She just hands me the phone and says, it's not doing that thing right, folks. Are you increasing your control? Are you increasing their choices? Are you increasing their abilities? Who are you truly making this about,
Speaker B: Chad? Um, I. You know, the. The backdrop of raising children has made me, like, kind of analyze so many of the things that I've. The ways I operate. And. And this is one where, you know, I. I want to be the dad that's teaching my kids growth and. And how to. Even as I sit there and watch and go, oh, my God, I can't believe it's taken him this long to tie his shoe. I wanna, like. I wanna.
Speaker A: I wanna leap in and just tie that damn thing back.
Speaker B: I just wanna tie that shoe so bad. Right? I can't do these things. And, I don't know, my wife and I kind of joke and battle about this because she wants to do everything for our boys all the way. I mean, she wants them to live in her basement when they're 30, you know?
Speaker A: Yeah, moms seem to want that. Dads
Speaker B: are
Speaker A: like, get out when you're 18. Yeah,
Speaker B: it's not get out when you're 18, but it's like, we got to prepare this kid to be ready to go into the world. Because, you know, I didn't know what it felt like to go into the world. And so the more you're. You're prepped. And, um, you know, I knew how to do laundry. Why? Because I did the laundry at our house. Like, I don't know all these little life skills that our kids don't necessarily have to do, but. But, you know, we want to actually help them grow,
Speaker A: you know, And I've said it before, Bob, my mom never taught me any of that. I love my mother. Mom, I love you. If you're listening to this episode, uh, it was when she went away because she was a travel agent. So she would go away on a trip for, you know, the, the resort was bringing travel agents to promote the resort. Every time she went away, my dad was like, all right, you're learning a new skill, right? You're going to learn how to vacuum the house that your mother always keeps clean because I'm not going to do it. And then when my mom would come back, he'd say, he knows how to vacuum. Let him do it. Right. Or you're going to learn how to do your own laundry. You're going to learn how to make your own lunch for school. Dad was helping where mom was not helping. Right. She was doing for me in that regard and, um, making herself needed as we. We tie it back into what the original question was. You
Speaker B: know, it's funny, um, you mentioned vacuuming. I love to vacuum. It's like little known fact of. I don't
Speaker A: tell Nita. Me too.
Speaker B: I, um, I don't. I. I think I can. Like, I just had a chaotic childhood and I can always remember I felt some semblance of control when I was vacuuming and I used to try to make the lines do the. Like. I can nail that in my house. Today I got this downstairs that, like, when you, if you do it right when you walk in, you're like, oh, wow, right? Uh,
Speaker A: do you go for like the major league baseball outfield where you like double direction, so you've got the strike. Everything's going in one direction
Speaker B: with the. And I got the pole and you know, up at the top, it's. It's all matching. Like. Yeah, like I, It's a thing. But it was, it was always my. I don't know, that was one of my, my chores growing up. And it was always a place where I felt like in this chaotic childhood, I had some control over what was happening.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, and that's the, you know, my mom teaching me that skill, which I don't even know if it's a skill. I think in a lot, in a lot of cases, you know what's funny. She would. I remember I would start that, and she would come home and say, like, did you vacuum? And I'd be like, what do you mean? Yeah, I vacuum. She's like, doesn't look like you vacuumed. And so then she was like, vacuum like this. And she actually taught me the skill. And then. So then I got good at it. And, um, like, I got. I actually had confidence. Like, I was a confident vacuumer, which is weird, but, like, I think anything you can instill in a kid that gives them confidence or they think they could do it well is. Is good. And so I don't know.
Speaker A: Let me ask you the question, Bob. When was the last time you vacuumed?
Speaker B: Oh, I like, I have one of those cordless ones from Costco that the. You know, the electric one. I like every day.
Speaker A: Okay?
Speaker B: Every day. I do it in our. I do it now in our. On our hardwood floor. My kids are 9 and 10. They. They're like a walking crumb. So there's crumbs always in the kitchen. So, like, every evening, I'll vacuum up the kitchen or whatever. But. All right, Little. Little fact, or maybe not little known. You know, we have cleaners that come to our house once a week, so I don't get a chance to really vacuum much anymore. So about the only time I vac vacuum and do that down here in this basement, which Chad can see in my background, is whenever we've had guests come over and they've taken their shoes off downstairs and been through it, and it doesn't look down here like I want it to look. Then I'll run the vacuum cleaner across it, uh, so that when I come down into my space, it looks clean and lined up. And
Speaker A: so, folks, we learned a valuable lesson from Bob about leverage today, which is when you have people come clean your house, you don't need to clean it the day before. Let them do their job. Right. I
Speaker B: mean, that's not what happens,
Speaker A: by
Speaker B: the
Speaker A: way, right?
Speaker B: We clean the night before.
Speaker A: No. All right, Bob, you were talking to us today about, are we helping or are we just making ourselves needed? And a great way, I think, to remember the questions you asked us and the remembering this. Are we increasing their choices? Are we increasing their abilities, or are we increasing our control? That'll quickly answer the question for us. Bob, what's the closing point you want to. You want to take out of this episode from.
Speaker B: Um, I would just say the next time somebody asks you for help, like, you know, it's a recognition thing, like, take stock in the way that you actually go out and help them. And did your help end up, Chad, leaving them a better version of themselves, or did it just feel good to you to help them a little bit and they didn't actually grow from it?
Speaker A: Great question to think about, folks, as we're taking it away, here's what Bob and I want to know. Did we help you, or are we just making ourselves needed by talking and nobody's actually listening anymore? Folks, remember, if there's an episode topic you want, send it in. If we're helping, let us know. Shoot us a message, shoot us an email. We gave them to you at the top of the episode. And as always, share these with other people. That's what really lets us know that you're listening and the episodes are making an impact. Until our next episode, as always, do good.
