#360: Rob Mattson - Walking the Earth, Aircraft Carriers, 2ndLap Podcast

Speaker A: Well, we'll get to the procrastination part in a little bit, but. Here, here. Welcome back to Wild Business Growth. This is your place to hear from a wild entrepreneur turning wild ideas into wild growth. I'm your host, Max Branstetter of Max Podcasting. This is episode 360. And, uh, as if we're not usually corny enough on this show, we're coming full circle in this episode. Today's guest is Rob Matson. Some call him Robbie, some call him Gramps, some call him Rob. And he is a longtime friend, longtime fan of the show from the early, early, early days. He is a Navy veteran, served as an aircraft technician on an aircraft carrier. He has had a very successful sal career, and he has walked the equivalent now of about one and a half times around the Earth. Uh, he had a goal to do the walk the circumference. Circumference of the earth by age 50. And, uh, he's still going, so we'll talk about that in his awesome second lap podcast. It is Rob, Robbie, Gramps. Enjoy the show. Alrighty. We are here with Rob Matson, also known as Robby Matson, also known as Gramps, uh, the man with three names, as he's known by anyone. Uh, good friend. We've come back way. We've actually never met in person, but feels like we have because we've been connected online. Uh, shout out our mutual friend, your, uh, old Navy buddy Patrick Fransco, for introducing us in the first place. But Pat, what's up, Pat? Uh, this is episode 360, and we're coming full circle with this podcast because not only have you been a fan of this podcast and a big supporter of this podcast from the early days, you are someone who literally has walked the equivalent of walking around the entire world. So360 feels like a fitting episode for you. Rob, Robby, Gramps, thanks for joining. How you doing today?

Speaker B: Fantastic. I'm, uh, grateful to be here. Thankful. And the irony in the numbers in my life, like when I finished walking the circumference, and I don't want to steal a lot of the thunder, but I finished on PI 3, 14, 20, 22. So there's these number things that show up. And being episode 360, I mean, uh, it's impressive. It's great. Thank you.

Speaker A: I appreciate that. Were you listening to, uh, Lateralis by Tool and got the Fibonacci sequence going when that ended too?

Speaker B: No, half of what you said, I'm like, what is he talking about?

Speaker A: All right, that's one of those songs and backgrounds of songs. You either know it or you don't. So, uh, okay, we'll spiral out of that one, so.

Speaker B: And I'm a fan. I am a fan of Tool, so it's surprising.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I'm sure we'll talk music, too, but I want to start off with something that you and I haven't really talked about before. But I know it's a big part of your background, how you and Pat connect in the first place. Your time in the. Want to say, early 90s on the USS Kitty Hawk, aircraft carrier in the Navy. I'm, um, someone who grew up loving behind Enemy Lines. Uh, obviously, Top Gun, those movies. I just think aircraft cooler. Cool ears, shout out, uh, what's it. What's. What's the show? Full House, Dave Coulier. I think aircraft carriers are some of the coolest things in the world. Can you share what life was like on an aircraft carrier?

Speaker B: I followed in my dad's footsteps, and I was gonna say it's kind of ironic. Same name, dad. Uh, when we go and you look at LinkedIn, we have our names in reverse. So, like, one has Robbie quotes in the middle. Rob Matson. The other one says Rob in the middle is Robbie Matson. And I can't remember which one of us did, but I followed suit because he had done it first. Um, I've gotten his, you know, his, uh, retirement envelopes for years. You know, the supplies, stuff like that. Anyway, so he. He watched, and I struggled with meningitis in college, and so I was forced to, hey, this is going to happen, or you could join the Navy. And I was like, hey, I'm going to do that. I went and, uh, because of Top Gun, was very, very interested in joining the military all of a sudden. And I think it was the motorcycle. And I did buy the motorcycle, and so I ful. All of that. I think the leather jacket, um, didn't play volleyball as much as maybe I should. Uh, but my humor is not going to get any better. Um, but yet you did my podcast. You know that you still invited me the asvab, which is the score or the test you take to decide what you could do in the military. I took it. And basically I had. I think it was a 99 out of 100 or 98 out of 100, and I could do whatever I wanted. So I actually decided at first I was going to do ET which is electric electronics technician, more nuclear. So, hey, I'm do something different than what dad did. He did at. And then Ultimately I, uh, got talked into doing Aviation Electronics Technician, which is at same thing he did. And so I went basically joined, went to boot camp, went to a school which is to learn how to do this stuff, and then was stationed with a squadron attached to the Kitty Hawk. So I was never a Black Shoe as they call them, you know, the guys that are ship's company. I was always a Brown Shoe or an Airedale or uh, you know, I had the wings of, on all of our ranks and ratings, um, showing that we were part of the squadrons. And so I was part of that. And then similar to like watching Top Gun, you know, not all of the pilots names are actually on the plane they're flying, it's on the squadron planes, but they rotate through the planes. And so it's like. Anyway, some of the things that they show in that movie ultimately are nothing like what it is. And then some things are very, very close to being like it. I met Patrick within a couple months of joining the squadron, so call it just shy of two years in the Navy, uh, because I had to go to boot camp school, um, then go to the other. And then anyway, so it was quite a bit of time in just over a year and a half, um, before. And then all of a sudden I was on the squadron, I met Patrick and he was an AT as well. And it was like, hey, great, we met each other. But he was doing this cool thing called troubleshooting. And I was part of the basically where you're gonna, you know, do each individual shop. And so I was in the AT shop. And uh, part of that is, you know, being in the military and the stuff that they don't show you in Top Gun is, you know, you have to kind of earn different pieces. And so I did the first three months of the first six month tour, actually temporary assigned duty or TAD to the mess hall. And so I was washing dishes and serving food and things like that. Getting scalded with hot water, uh, for the first, you know, 90 days of that. And then I moved in and had all these clean uniforms and everybody else was all dirty and nasty because for the first 90 days they were working and I was, as I said, getting scalded. But I did that, I worked nights, so I got to shift my whole body, you know, and I would basically like have breakfast for dinner and vice vers. And that was fun and I enjoyed that. Learned uh, how to drink a lot of coffee at that point in my life. And then I got to do at the end of that first one so right before Patrick actually was, Patrick was leaving the Navy and I was transitioning, actually into being a troubleshooter. Um, my dad flew out to Hawaii and did a Tiger cruise with me and got to fly, you know, spend a week after the end of a cruise with us. We did flight ops and they got to eat in the mess hall and do all the things we do. And even though he and I did the same thing, he was a reservist, so he never actually got to experience it. So it was kind of really cool to experience what I was doing through his eyes and actually learn now that I'm older, what perspective is, you know, he thought it was super cool. And I'm like, yeah, some of this sucks bad. But I can see how you would think it's cool.

Speaker A: So I guess what's the misconception about, uh, besides working in mess halls, what's the biggest mess conception about working on, like, an aircraft carrier and with these, like, crazy powerful. I think it was F18s that you were working with.

Speaker B: F18s? Yep.

Speaker A: That's the Hornet or Super Hornet.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: That's all I know about planes right there. That was it.

Speaker B: We were Hornets. They were. The Super Hornet was out when we were in, um, VFA 97, which is what I was in. And we actually have a Facebook group, so. Shout out. Hey, we've. Whatever. I'm m. One of the admins. But we were running, I think it was AB. They then had CDs. And then the Super Hornets were EFS and the different letters were 1 seeder versus 2 seaters. And so I believe ours were seas at that point then. Um, so anyways, we had like the oldest planes and all the new guys had that. And so there's that kind of misconception. Like, hey, you're always going to have the latest and greatest. And we were kind of like the Bad News Bears and that. Like, we were like making these things limp along. Uh, shout out. Patrick will know some of these terms. But, you know, we had a Hangar Queen, which basically means we had an airplane that sat in the hangar, uh, the whole cruise. I think one time, just because we didn't have enough parts to keep 10 of them going. Which you don't want to advertise that because the enemy's like, hey, whatever, we want to go attack them. And no, they're really strong, whatever. Like, no, they don't even have a full set of planes because they're trying to keep limping along with old technology. So anyways, Shout out. I normally go really positive. But that's probably the negative thing I've ever said on a podcast.

Speaker A: No, I never, I never thought about that before. That's cool. I think. Statute of limitations is there. The hangar queen will forgive you, but yeah. Can you put into perspective the feeling of just uh, being around a plane that's either landing or taking off at an aircraft carrier?

Speaker B: Max, it's like incredibly humbling to be around an airplane. And I've been around airplanes and interested in airplanes and when I lived in Alaska as a kid, my dad had tons of friends that had either float planes or small planes. And I've held the, you know, stick and flown and, and all that, you know, is youth and you get around, you know, an F18 and I mean it's like being around a Canon. It's like being around a uh, dragster. If you've ever been around a dragster or ah, a NASCAR or some sort of high performance piece of equipment that is just, you know, if you get too close to a certain place, it's going to suck in like a Ginsu. You got to watch out for that as well as the back. It's you know, similar to like a horse. You gotta, you know, make sure you're in the right place during the right time. Incredibly humbling. I've got permanent hearing damage just because they're extremely loud. And for being a troubleshooter you have to be able to have the muffs on and be able to communicate with the pilot and so you can't have double hearing protection. And so um, at some point I'm going to go in and they're going to start paying me disability because I've had permanent hearing damage uh, since I was 20 years old. But anyways, long story, you're around a very powerful machine you're kind of ducking under because it's, you know, you've got them all stacked together so you're very conscious of space. They're usually chained down. So you're not only trying to avoid the plane, but you're also looking or not looking. You're uh, not able to see the like trip wires if you will, that are, they're kind of sometimes even feeling with your pants. And you've got your pants then in the center stained with a brown from the chain rust. Got all these memories that you're, you're bringing up as I'm thinking about the, the life of that. But yeah, you're, you're ducking around and then if you're up there doing flight ops, then you're also dealing with planes that are actually launching and, you know, landing and trying not to get, you know, vaporized as that's all happening, so.

Speaker A: Well, I'm glad you're not vaporized. I'm gonna. This is gonna be a hard cut from, you know, the fastest machines on earth and above her to one of the slowest things we can do as humans, which is walking. And so I think, ah, when I think about you and what you've done in your personal brand and now you've got the Second Lap podcast, which I'm fortunate you had me on recently. Really, really cool.

Speaker B: It was fun.

Speaker A: You started walking at some point and now you've kind of made it part of your identity and obviously there's tons of positives that come with it, but you've now turned it into media platforms as well. And so there's a really cool story there. I actually don't know what's. Why did you start walking every day in the first place?

Speaker B: I've thought on this a lot while walking. Uh, you know, one walking as.

Speaker A: As one does as one walks and thinks, yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Well, I call it defragging my hard drive when I'm walking. I'm actually fixing the realigning and things like that. Um, but if I go back, I would go back and I would tell you that as far as I can remember, uh, we as a family live in Alaska elementary school. We did cross country skiing, cross country running. We were doing 5ks and 10ks as a family all of my youth. So it was always, uh, physical downhill skiing, mountain bikes and living in Alaska. Mountain bike in actually mountain biking kind of terrain, off road and different kinds of tires and just kind of craziness like that. And, um, even, you know, up to becoming part of my first business, my, my partner and I, we would, you know, in between sales calls, we would pull off and change shoes, kind of like Mr. Rogers for, for those that remember who that is. And we would go for a walk for an hour and have a water bottle with us and just have kind of partner meetings, team meetings. They, you know, talk through. What did that sales call just mean? How do we, you know, sort of a, you know, they'd call like a postmortem or a debrief or a, you know, an analysis. We would do that while walking. And that happened and progressed. And then I had kids and, you know, I grew to as large as I think I ever was. I think it was probably 225 or 230 pounds, six, uh, foot tall and I was like, why am I not doing this? Fast forward. I started to walk, you know, kind of occasionally, uh, mowing my. The lawn or different things, never on a consistent basis. Uh, then I basically got divorced. And, you know, I think there's this time where everybody gets sort of slapped in the face with something that was mine and with me. And so I bought a Fitbit. This is probably my 12th one, maybe, or 13th. And I've had this one, um, the one right before this, the longest. I think I had five years. And then it shorted. Bought this one, and then it started working again. So it's down in the drawer, and I have a backup to the. Anyway, so, uh, 12 of them in. And I started measuring sort of the walking. And I was doing it, and I. I was, hey, I wanted to do this daily. And it was. It was passe. People were doing, like, contests, like a daily contest. Hey, who can walk the most? And, um, you would do things to sandbags so you could be the winner and things like that. So that started going on, and then eventually. And fast forward to the meat that you're looking for. And you may cut right to this. So this may be the intro. And boom.

Speaker A: We're gonna cut. We're gonna cut. Uh, we've been recording for 15 and a half minutes. Uh, but you are listening. Have heard four seconds. So thanks for. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker B: I would not be surprised. Uh, we're at minute three. I listened to these, and I was gonna bring the headphones. I have them over there. I'm not gonna stand up and make. You have to whatever. But I had wired in at the time, and I would bite on the cord, because when you're walking a lot, they would fall out of my ear. But if I would bite on the cord or whatever. And so I probably have some sort of cavities that came from all the electromagnetic impulses that I put into my face. Um, but I started to listen to podcasts, and I started to listen to books, and I started to listen to people. And David Goggins was on with Jesse Ixler on Joe Rogan's podcast and talked about, um, living with a Seal, which was the book that he did. And I was like, this is interesting.

Speaker A: And by the way, for those picturing, like, a zoo living with the Navy seal. For, you know, for those. Not the seal, the animal.

Speaker B: So, yeah, yes, yes. No, no, thank you for.

Speaker A: It sounds like a kid's movie, actually, if you first think about it, if

Speaker B: you get to see the COVID of it, it's pretty funny because there's a, uh, you know, curly head, stir crazy kind of, I think Gene Wilder, when I think of him, and his wife actually refers to him as Gene Wilder. Like, but then there's this guy screaming in his ear, and that's David Goggins. But we listened to them talk, and I was very fortunate to listen to all that. And then David Goggins book came out. And so I basically was probably the 10th book that I listened to on audible in the time I was listening. Been walking at that point three years, two and a half years. Three years. And I listened to it and he was basically, the short version is when you get done the way that we are brought up as humans, when you get done and you are winded and gassed and feel like you just gave the world everything, you've given 40%, you have that much more capacity, capability, you have more. But yet there's things in circuitry and. And systems that want to protect you and. And save you and keep you sane and alive and all those other things. And I say that lightly. And so I took that and I was like, hm, well, I've got this much time. It was 20. What was it? 2017, 2018. Right in that time frame. And I had just over three years until I was going to turn 50 years old. And I'd been walking and I did 2,500 miles the first year of my Fitbit without reading this book. I did 3,500 miles the second year without reading this book.

Speaker A: Book.

Speaker B: And I think I did four, 800 miles the third year. And I had read the book and this is when this all started. And I basically went to. Through the restaurant business would say I went through with. I did a soft opening and I started to see, how could I do this? I want to do 12 miles a day. That's how I can get to this number that I want to do, which is 24,902 miles on my feet, max. I failed miserably. I couldn't do it. Like, I could do 13 miles and then I would do 12 miles, and then I would do 11 and a half, and then I would do 8, and then I would do 11and a half and I would do 15. And I'm like, damn, I can't. And I'm a traveling salesman. Like, you know, your dad is a sales guy. Like, it's. I'm a. Like, I'm traveling. I'm a Southwest Airlines. I'm doing all these things and it's like, man, I'm still trying to squeeze in four hours walking like every day. And how do I do that? And I realized I could do 84 miles a week. I failed I think once in three and a half years to do 84 miles in a week. Every other week I did 86 to 112 miles like I I over. Which made it so that I actually finished 28 days earlier, four weeks early. So instead of my birthday of April 11th, I finished, as I said, 314 high 20, 22. And now you brought up second lap. Now we're sitting at 38,100 and something as we speak. So we're halfway through lap two.

Speaker A: Congrats on that. That's a lot of walking.

Speaker B: It's a lot of walking.

Speaker A: Call you Christopher walking, but that's the

Speaker B: best joke I've heard you say today.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's the only one. So, yeah, it's really cool that you started doing this. You obviously saw there were benefits and then you set a goal for yourself. And this is like a big goal. This is not like I want to run a mile by the end of the month. This is because it's a lot, a lot of miles. And then you did the work to figure out, okay, what's actually the equivalent of walking the circumference of the earth. So congrats on making it this far. 1 1/2 so far. I have a few logistical questions because I'm just really curious behind the scenes. So first of all, schedule wise, how do you work this time into your day? I mean, you're a traveling salesman, you're busy with your day job as well. How are you still able to get everything done, including work and walking in

Speaker B: the early days and through lap one, that completion, uh, it was all hands on deck and it was get everything done. And it was sometimes walking on the treadmill until midnight and sometimes even till two in the morning because I could preload, like I would wake up in the morning and I'd already walked two miles the night before technically, but it was that counted as that day. So that's the, that's the problem with their system is it's a 12 to 12 and because it's at midnight, it sort of throws things off. And then in early days, and I'm not going to go down this tangent, but I've probably walked 290 to 350 miles that are untracked because of them and their technology.

Speaker A: The Lost Mile, it's like the lost tapes. The Lost Mile is the secret, secret life of what happened on those walks. No, I'm just gonna.

Speaker B: Yeah, it didn't happen because I don't have it recorded technically. But I would get on a plane in Dallas at 10pm and I'd have my 12 miles in. It's like I, I'm gonna get this done before I get on a plane. Well, I can't sink at uh, you know, 33,000ft. So when I land in Seattle, I've already gone past one morning in Dallas, so my Fitbit started reset. So when I land, I get credit for 150 steps. I don't get the 25,000 that I did the whole day before. So it did that a bunch in the early days. I think they fixed that glitch. So there were a lot of matrixy kind of learning things that it went through. But it's, as I said, started to say all times. Like I would get up in the morning and it's amazing. Which you can do between 5:00am and 8:00am, um, you know, you can get a couple, couple hours of walking and then, um, I would walk during lunch. Um, as time went on I learned because I create my own schedule as, you know, a, ah, sales guy that I would do, you know, the 2ish hours a day of the mandatory either training or sales profile. You know, the, the, the where people are sitting like I'm doing now and sitting in front of a screen, those people. Instead of doing that, I would have my phone in my pocket and I'm walking and I'm participating that way. And I would do that or I would have, you know, just where I didn't have to have a presentation. I can talk through pretty anything. And so if my engineer, I was gonna say se, uh, systems engineer was there, he could presentation and I could talk while I'm walking as well. So I would just prioritize walking. Um, when you get to the grocery store, I would park as far out, if not walk to the grocery store, uh, as possible, anytime, anywhere that I actually had to get in a car. I would end up walking maybe close to 500 steps from the car to get into wherever I was going anyways. Because that, that's just what I would do is you, you, you find ways to do it. My house has a, a central part where the stairs are and I can walk in circles. And so in an hour I can walk a lot. Yeah, like, I can walk a lot. And I would do like patterns on the floor because we have tile floors. I mean, I'm giving you the warped sense, you know, kind of like Things because I'm, um, trying to keep going. But yeah, you just walk anytime it's possible. And to the point where we set. We're one car family. We sold the car because it's like he, he's made this goal and he's not going to ever get in a car by himself.

Speaker A: Next, you need the Fred Flintstone mobile, where you can get your steps in while moving in the car too.

Speaker B: I could see this, the whole Tesla and self driving. I could see you sitting in the passenger side of a self driving Tesla with one of those pedal things that you have so you could be actually moving while you're doing it. I tried doing so my equivalent of that. So where my brain goes during the circumference of the earth walk or Circumference Earth 50 is what my tagline was when I was doing that. I flew to India. So I traveled for a day and a half. So I was walking up and down the aisles of the airplane. Oh, uh, yeah, while we were flying and people were looking at me and you know, with all of the stuff about people and whatever, you know, I was like, hey, guys, I have to keep walking. I'm literally walking around here. So like. And in any case, like I said in sporting events, I would walk around the field while everybody else is sitting down in the chairs watching soccer. You know, those kind of things, Max. Like, literally, if it's possible, I would be on my feet.

Speaker A: Well, uh, speaking of feet, the I know that you've gone through lots and lots of shoes. What tips do you have for keeping your feet in good shape, keeping, you know, just like your joints aren't aching too much? Because like you, I've heard stories of especially those who do like ultra distance stuff. And I mean, well, Goggins is one of those, like super ultra distance marathons, things like that. Like some of the blisters and, uh, you know, it's almost like you can get trench foot at some of these tough mud or stuff like that. Like, how do, how do you keep your body and your feet and your mind intact for doing these long distances?

Speaker B: I take, uh, a lot of my life from the movies that I've watched and the lessons and the learning that we've got there.

Speaker A: This is why you run like Forrest Gump does that.

Speaker B: You know, got the textbook, Lieutenant Dan. It's amazing, the miraculousness of you choosing that movie, Lieutenant Dan. He basically says to Forrest and to Bubba, when they're there, he holds up a pair of socks and he says, socks, take care of your feet. That's the magic. I change my socks on average four times a day. Like, every time I go for a distance of walking. When I come back, I put those socks in the laundry. Hey, they're gonna get cleaned up. I buy socks and, um. Paul Tangent. You buy the kind of socks that have a lifetime warranty that if everything goes wrong, you just write the thing and they exchange them. So we've been. Instead of. I used to throw them away before I knew that was the thing. Like, I would wear socks out because I'm walking all the time. And then we found that out. And so when I wear them out, my wife does this program and sends in. We get like eight at a time because we just sort of both use the same brand and, and do that. But I change my socks after every walk, which is roughly four times a day. Um, so there's nothing there. I, uh, spend a lot of time in bare feet when I'm not wearing Brooks.

Speaker A: So Brooks is your running shoe or walking shoe brand of choice?

Speaker B: Brooks Glycerin is my brand. And I've had. I think I started with 12s and now they're in 25s. So, I mean, I've gone through all these model changes.

Speaker A: For a second when you started saying that, I interpreted that as shoe size. And I'm like, your feet are just growing. You have shack feet.

Speaker B: Oh, he's so awesome. No, my shoe size is actually a 12. It's. I think it's 11 and a half. But because you walk so much, learn, you always get a little bit bigger for your feet swelling. Um, especially when you're walking 12 miles a day or 16 miles a day at point sometimes.

Speaker A: How often do you switch those shoes up? Um, get new. Get a new pair.

Speaker B: That was the. For the joints, I can start to tell where. When I'm getting close to four, probably 450 to 500 miles, I know that it's time to get the shoes. I've gone past when it is. And so I can. I'm, um. You can't see me, but I'm rubbing my knees, my knees and ankles. Like, that's where you can feel it. And it's achy. And you're like, man, I need a new pair of shoes. Then we go through new kicks day, and you wear those, and those are. It's an amazing day. Super comfortable. I tried the tricks where I bought two pairs and I would alternate days. So I would wear a shoe and then I wouldn't wear it the next day, and then I would wear it. The day after, I got no extension of life. All I did was have to manage which pair I wore yesterday by, you know, leaving one set tied and the other one untied and things like that so I wouldn't, you know, break the system. And, uh, it gave me no increased effectiveness in the shoe. So it, at the high point of my walking, it was literally 29 days. I hit 29 days. I need to do a pair of shoes.

Speaker A: You're like, on like a lunar schedule there. Pretty close to it.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: It ties just into all your walking. But, uh, as we hinted at before. So you started over the past couple years, the Second Lap podcast, which I think is brilliant because you were, I mean, we talked about it when you had me so kindly on your show, but, uh, you know, we had talked in the very, very early days about you doing this and what you're doing and, and your goal. And I want to start a podcast, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. Things like that. Something that, uh, anyone who starts a podcast goes through those. And you had so many great ideas and so it's really cool to see it come to life now. But I think second lap is that much cooler because, yeah, it would be great to start something along that first lap and kind of follow you as you go through your goal. And of course you're posting throughout, but there's nothing wrong with having a. You're doing the second lap again and now you're talking about what you've learned the first time. You're talking about what you're doing on the second time as well. Uh, for anybody, like, I highly recommend checking out your show. You literally walk and talk. So it's like while you're walking, while you're getting closer and closer to your goal each time and you're having these amazing conversations, I also have to say that you're some of the best I've ever seen at, ah, just getting people to have real conversations and genuine. And you don't need to plan out like a 20 bullet point outline or scripted questions, anything like that. Like, I think, you know, we can all agree conversations are good for people and good for connection. And so that was one of my favorite parts when you had me on was, of course, yeah, we talked some podcasting stuff, um, we would talk some technology stuff and that realm. But, you know, probably two thirds of that podcast was talking about how I became a, uh, father over the past year and talking about how Jamie's doing and how my outlook on life has changed. And that stuff is so fun to connect with upon. And I'm sure it was fun for you to look back at, at that time of your life too. So for sure we're just going to talk for 10 minutes about, you know, compliments for your podcast. But no, I, for you, I think what has it meant to you to be able to kind of add this layer where now not only are you walking, but you're also connecting with people during it and you're talking about all sorts of things and it's kind of all under this Second Lap brand or Second Lap podcast.

Speaker B: I think, you know, when we started talking about doing a podcast, had a plethora of ide. And you know, you throw in add and you throw in, you know, all these things that you're doing and you know, I'll put a pin there and I'll pause that. When people are getting excited about people and their goals, they're. They're really excited as people are getting close to their goal. So when I started this whole process, you know, it's. I got to walk this in three and a half years. People, they lose interest in 20 minutes, you know what I'm saying? And I'm trying to be funny, but I'm being serious as like people get even without add, they're like, okay now. And I've learned that as a sales guy, you know, if that 20 minutes people start looking at their phones or they start moving around, it's because you need to tell a joke or get them to stand up and sit back down and, and do something. We're just, we're a domesticated wild, wild animal. And I was two and a half and then one and a half and you know, a half a year. And so I was always, uh, far enough away that that never really entered my mind as that's going to be the identity I'd have to. Once I get there, I can have that identity. But it kept me from, you know, I never had a shoe brand or, you know, Brooks is. Brooks has taken between me and my bride before she found a bigger toe box. And she's not a Brooks person. We could talk about that. But before she changed, she was brooks for probably 50 pairs. And I've gone, uh, 130 pairs. So they've gotten more out of me than they will get out of a lifetime of most individual runners. And I'm still walking, but I got nothing from them. Ah, no endorsements, no free pair of shoes. And I even started this whole campaign. Walkers are, you know, People too, you know, because their tagline is Brooks Running. So I then got an Instagram and I made it Brooks Walking. And I tried all these things to get in their face, and. And nobody cared because I wasn't there. And so I got past that. It became, hey, I accomplished 25,000 miles on my feet. I did most of it in 12 miles or 84 miles a week. 12 miles a day. You know, I did it in these things. I had a broken toe, I cut my foot. I traveled around the world. I went on vacations, and what, one week didn't even have the Fitbit on my body. And that's. That was during the, you know, the thing. So I. I did these things to. To throw landmines in my own way. In addition to the landmines. They're just there as a natural human. And then all of a sudden, I was there and I had it. And so I started to do these podcasts with. He goes by Food is Fuel, New York City, uh, Ryan. I started talking through V. Friends, um, big into Web three. And so we started talking. This was the podcast that he did. He interviewed me as a podcast before I even started doing my own. And so I did his. And he and I had kind of a jam. And so we did kind of what I'd say probably close to 26, 28 episodes. So we did half a year where we did an episode a week, and we just talked to each other and we kind of went back and forth.

Speaker A: And that was on the, uh. For those listening, that was on the V. Dads podcast, right?

Speaker B: Yes. It wasn't. It didn't. We. We hadn't moved it in, and it didn't have really, its own identity. So we were sort of, uh, you know, triaging and helping each other. And. And as we said, we. I'm feeling around in the dark a little bit. I don't know exactly what I want to do. And this is. Hey, I've seen some people where it's like, you and me, we could just do a weekly podcast and just talk, and that could be what goes. And then it's like, well, how does it be different than other people? How do I do something that's different? How do I do something that people are going to remember? And other than the technical difficulties, which you are going to remember, because I'm moving, wireless is not ubiquitous, and I've been in Wireless since 1998 and experienced it. It is so much better than was, but it's still not perfect. And if you're moving, you're going to deal with those things. Um, but anyways, long story short, Ryan, um, had some changes in his life and so I found myself sort of an island. And I had met Ronnie, um, my current producer, current better half, uh, 51% of second lap. Met him at, uh, VCon through Patrick. So back to the six degrees of Kevin Bac.

Speaker A: Of Patrick Fransco. Yeah.

Speaker B: Of Patrick Francisco for sure. Uh, but Kevin Bacon makes it so that the people will pick it up and we'll get more likes on YouTube. I'm trying to tell you, I'm trying to learn these things. Thanks, Kevin. I appreciate you. Saw all your movies. Um, Footloose.

Speaker A: Footloose.

Speaker B: Okay. That might be a. Maybe a clip. It might start that. The movie with.

Speaker A: Oh, I thought you're gonna ask me to cut it. Yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, no, no, no. We're now at. We're not at the six minute mark, folks. Folks. Um. Oh, Ronnie and I got together. Yeah, we had talked to VCon. We had touched skin, we had become friends, we had shared some NFTs, we had done some things. And he had a podcast. And I don't know if he took pity on me, but he sort of, hey, uh, I could help you with some of these things. I could help you with this. And I was like, hey, if we're going to do this 50, 50, I can talk to everybody in the world, I can do whatever. But if it doesn't go in the right socials, if it's not the right tags, if it's not the right product coming out the other end, and you and I talked about this. This was the magic sauce that I had to come to terms with. And most people that I do the podcast with don't fully understand yet. The parts are worth more than the whole, like the whole YouTube shorts. The back to the whole people have 20 minutes worth of, you know, attention span. My podcast has a lot of times for 45 minutes, um, I'm defeating my own rule. I'm going too long yet. Ronnie can cut it up into 50 clips of opus through opus clip or whatever it is, and he can start posting it on different socials. And he's slowly, you know, as you said, you don't want to get flagged and stuff. So he slowly turned the spigot on, you know, four a day and now five a day and six a day. So we're trying to hit the right people, but we're, we're really trying to spread the news and I appreciate you highlighting the podcast, but we're really trying to Spread the news and help a younger generation to have conversations, to learn the lessons, to hear some of the skinning of the knee or bumping of the forearm, the scars that we have that keep you from becoming maimed or worse. We want to be able to share those and we try to do it in a humorous way. And I think one of the things that I find most curious is curiosity. Like I really have become, you know, more and more and it's getting faster and faster and I'm wondering when it can slow down. And I can't remember if it was you, somebody that I was talking to. As the podcast things were, were kind of coming to terms and I don't know if I credit you. It might have been Brian. Um, Guy was in. Another. Guy was in the Navy with, with Patrick. But they were like, you've consumed all of this stuff. Like it might even be Dr. Danita, who was a guest like two episodes ago. They're like, you've consumed all that. You need to get it out. Like, you need to share it with some people. Like, you've. It's not like I was going to boil over, but, you know, they do share with you that, you know, to learn the best things in life, you get to the point where you're. You're teaching like you're. You're a mastery of it. And I've been waiting a long time to say this. I'm glad your podcast is where I'm going to use it. They say 10,000 hours of anything makes you like a professional. I've walked for like 15,000 hours now or whatever it is. I'm like, I'm a double platinum professional procrastinator and walker. Like, I've got a couple of double majored in both those.

Speaker A: Well, we'll get to the procrastination part in a little bit, but, um, I think that was my best joke ever.

Speaker B: Start the whole thing with that. That's the clip. Half the people won't understand what you just said, so you might have to go back.

Speaker A: They'll get there eventually. So I guess whether it's with. Whether you're doing it, uh, you know, walking and talking and doing a podcast or not just high level. If you kind of zoom out. Why would you recommend walking, you know, for anyone who can. To add as part of their daily repertoire.

Speaker B: We all talk about health, we talk about mental health, we talk about how to be a better person. We talk about all these things. All of them require action. So I equate walking to action. And it gives you that ability for me, I locked in when. And I don't know if he'll be a bad guy at some point. So if the future he's a bad dude. Remember that we're all in this disclaimer. Polaroid. Yeah, disclaimer. But I watched an HBO special, I think it was on with in Bill Gates brain or something like that. And he would take these pauses in life where he would grab a bunch of books and he would go off and he would consume them and walk and think about them. And so that was part of what I was thinking as I put the earphones in and I started to do the circumstance of the earth by age 50 challenge with myself is I started I want to be like Bill Gates. I want to be smart. I mean, he was the richest man forever. When I lived in Redmond, Washington, going to to Redmond High School. He would be Bill sightings that you would see working at Microsoft. And so it was like, man, I want to attain that. And so walking gives you that time. I said earlier, defrag your hard drive, which is you do all these things and you're in the midst of something and all of a sudden your kid comes up and you have a kid now. So I can use this as an example and you understand you're in the midst of dicing onions and this beautiful human comes up and grabs your leg and you go off and do this thing and you come back and hopefully your onions aren't stinky because you were gone for too long, but you finish up kind of doing your thing. Well, in our, uh, mental world, we rarely come back like, so it's like this garbage in your head. And I think it's why we have certain dreams or nightmares, or we don't sleep well or we eat bad, or we do all these other things, have anxiety because we have these thoughts in our head that never get to end. I use the walking to have that way to clear that out. But it's really been me going to school. It's been my ability to learn that curiosity thing. I said my big thing. Now I'm kind of a snob when it comes to it. I want to listen to autobiographies read by the author, read by the guy that it's about, and listen to their tone and flexion, where the humor comes from, their body language that comes through because it's them that they're reading, reading. And I want it to be over four hours because each book costs $12. And so it's like a financial thing. It's just really hard for my brain to get around. Hey, I can just listen to a three and a half hour Joe Rogan podcast and it's free. I don't have to do this four hour book over here. Um, but I want to get as much out of each as I can. I think that. And so walking for me and why Back to your original question is it gives people an excuse to go out and do something that's going to be good for their mental health and they can take the opportunity through AirPods or wired headphones to do something else or go with a partner and have a conversation like I do with usually somebody that's stationary on second lap. That was the last plug.

Speaker A: Well, that's a wonderful note to end on and would uh, be a perfect place to wrap this up. Um, but I'm going to screw it up because I really want to do some rapid fire Q and A with you.

Speaker B: Please do.

Speaker A: Yeah. You ready for it?

Speaker B: I'm ready for this.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm ready.

Speaker A: Let's get wild. We're stretching. We're doing some, some tibia dorsiflexion. That's my favorite workout from high school football. I remember, uh, well, it was my favorite workout. It was just a function.

Speaker B: I hope that's real.

Speaker A: It is. It's when you, when you're stretching someone, I mean, it's usually with the partner, when you're okay, you grab the, the front of their feet and like pull, wait, the top of their feet and pull it down towards you so it stretches your shin. Okay. Shin muscles.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, I guess, uh, yeah, I guess you dorsiflex your tibia anyway, more where that came from. Alaska. So, yes. Super cool. I mean, I've always been fascinated by Alaska. I haven't been there yet, but I definitely want to go there at some point. It just seems endlessly beautiful and also endlessly huge. When you see the realistic maps, it's almost intimidating.

Speaker B: Ginormous.

Speaker A: Yeah. What's like your elevator pitch for why someone should. Should either visit or move to Alaska. Live in Alaska.

Speaker B: So I moved to Alaska as a kindergartner. Spent the year of uh, fourth grade in Utah and then I left Alaska in the ninth grade. So was there during the youth. I give that as context of uh, if you'd asked me then, I'd have said I don't want to be here. I want to be back in California with my friends. I want to go swimming. We would go to Hawaii on the dividends from living in Alaska every year. And I would love to be at the beach. So I'm a beach person. So I would have said that I did cover it as a, um, as a sales guy in my early fatherhood. So I would go up and I would, you know, sell industrial products and drive around up to Fairbanks, things like that. And going back as an adult, I would tell you that it's so awesome. I mean it's like, you know, untarnished world. There are some dense populations of humans that you can go and get your supplies and be around, but you can easily, you know, get on a float plane or get in a car and be gone and away. We'd spend all um, weekend from Friday night through Sunday down on the beach in Alaska in a camper that my parents left there. And we'd go fishing and just outdoors and you know, downhill skiing and you know, riding up on this chairlift above the clouds and then skiing through the clouds. I mean just all of that stuff being in rivers and hip waders and a moose walking in while you're fishing for, you know, salmon. All that's happening like a uh, bear standing up against the outhouse of the cabin you're renting at a lake. You had to fly into a, ah, you know, thing and then somebody pulling the trigger of a gun so the bear would run off and not maul us all and, and eat us. And that all happened rapid fire. I tried to rapid fire back to you.

Speaker A: Let's hope you weren't in the. I can't imagine how scary that is. If you're in the, if you're sitting down at an outhouse, we don't talk

Speaker B: about what you're doing.

Speaker A: But a bear scratching outside, oh my God. Geez.

Speaker B: We were, we were at the campfire in the outhouse was up behind us. So no, the guy that would have been, that was a shitty situation.

Speaker A: All right, all right. Sales, uh, we haven't dove dived much into it, but uh, I mean you've had an incredible sales career. A lot of big name companies, especially in like the tech space, the cybersecurity space, uh, for anybody in sales. What's, what's like your best sales tip? Just quick tip on sales.

Speaker B: The, the oldest one is two ears, one mouth. Listen more than you speak. You know, them talking is you winning. Ask open ended questions. So they're once again they're talking. I mean the old ultimate goal is to get them talking. I use it to get my biggest secret hack to add, which is in the midst of the presentation. There are times where I will go where? I will go to Bermuda. And then I come back and there's still a room of people. And I'll look at the room of people and I'll be like, what was I talking about? And they'll either, they'll either know. And if they know I know they're listening and hey, it's a cue and I can have whatever. And if they have no idea, I start over, I go somewhere else. I like, uh, we don't remember you. And it's like, okay, I used kind of my. What does it say? Using my negative is a positive. So I would say that. But sales really is, you know, about people liking you. People buy from people they like. You know, that's why I think. And I've had numerous conversations, thousands of conversations with adults. And we do all believe that AI will never take over the job of a salesperson because people want to talk with people. They want to, they want a human interaction. And I'll say this to you, I hate talking to these automated systems on the phone where you just push the worst. Yes. It's like, just want somebody to hear my voice.

Speaker A: Oh, we just did a, um, I actually mentioned it on uh, when you had me on your show. You know, we had this. Cousins get together in the city a few weekends ago and then we had a big family style meal at Carmines after, which was great. And it all worked out. I'm not kidding. I, I had five or six different calls with Carmines to get that reservation and make sure there were enough high chairs because Carmines has some automated system where. How can we help you? What are you interested in all these things? And to be, to specifically be like, all right, we have a group of this many. We need this many high chairs. It eventually got to the point where they were just like, sorry, I can't help you. You know, it's like. And so you need to, you need to talk to the host or hostess.

Speaker B: They don't let you. They've changed the systems. Where it used to be, I'm going to show my age here. But you used to say zero. And you come up and say, no, but I want operator. You hit zero again. You would know it happened and zero again. And then it would, it would hear you the third zero. And then it was like the pound sign. And then it's like, you have to know Morris code now in order to get past or you can't get to a human ever. And I just. Anyway, so I don't think salespeople will ever be Replaced. You'll get replaced by a bad salesperson or one that can't use the technology or the tools, the things you can't get behind the time. But you're always going to have a human because people, just, as I said, they just want it. So. Listen, more than you talk war movie,

Speaker A: you mentioned Top Gun was very inspirational for you. Besides Top Gun, what was your. And I know that's, you know, kind of romance as well, but what is your favorite? If you could watch it on repeat on a plane. What's like another war movie that you put right up there?

Speaker B: Max, I don't like to watch the war movies as much as I did when I was youth. I really have.

Speaker A: That's fair.

Speaker B: I take my TV time, and I give my TV time to, uh, to X or Twitter. For those of us who are old enough to know they used to be a bird. I kind of give my screen time to a different way. Yeah, um, I've tried, and I really. My thing is lead with love. Leadwithlove eth. If you're into Ethereum, I'm really about either fear or love. You get to choose, and I'm choosing love, so I'm leaning in that way. I have sons. Uh, you look at war movies differently after you've had a son. You had a daughter, you maybe look at differently after a daughter. I can't remember, um, that far back anymore, because the daughters were first. I've seen all the ones that I would say are worthy of the awards. They have Saving Private Ryan, I think, um, the first 20 minutes, no real conversation. Just those doors opening and the guy next to you's head exploding. And then the realism of being that. I've been on an aircraft carrier and around people and thinking all. You know, I'm very much. Because I listen to books more than I watch movies. My. My brain is a better movie projector than that. Whatever. I. I kind of shy away from. But I would also, um, say that I grew up in a family where my parents were huge. Uh, like Dirty Dozen, Magnificent, um, Seven, Anything. Um, with the Duke, all those Telly Savalas. I'm trying to think of all the guys. I mean, I just. All the old war movies. My mom was really big into those, and even with a son. So I just kind of contradicted myself. Really crazy, but. Or Clint Eastwood. You know, all those kind of things. You know, those were kind of dating myself. I don't know the new ones, like Full Metal Jacket.

Speaker A: Now you're dating yourself because you called Full Metal Jacket A new one.

Speaker B: And it's probably 30 years old, right?

Speaker A: It was, uh, Yeah, I mean, it's got to be 80s from the 90s.

Speaker B: It's got to be 90s. I'm trying to bring it. I'm bringing it north.

Speaker A: New ones would be, uh. Oh, I actually really liked Warfare. Would you watch Warfare? Warfare was really good. I watched on a plane a couple. It was. It's just in one of those classic movies where it's so innocent at the start and then it just spirals out of control in it. But it's like all pretty much in one set. It's crazy.

Speaker B: That's our. That's our version. My wife just watched all seasons of Homeland in a seven week period and I got to watch all of it and it was like very reminding of the whole Saddam and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, I have one. I know I keep going back to this, but one more military adjacent question for you. What is the song that was either like your guys, like Pump Up Song or that you listened to before you got deployed? Like what. What song do you think about when you think about that era and when you were serving?

Speaker B: There are so many pieces of music that take me back to that time. Because not only was I, you know, in the Navy and Hair on Fire and being that whole thing, I was, you know, having two children and becoming a father as that's all going on. So that's happening. And it was 1996. So, you know, Michael Jordan is winning, you know, the NBA champion for either the. This was it the second 3P do you know, it's like I'm trying to

Speaker A: think when Space Jam came out and then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: So back up from there. Um, you know, what year was he a baseball player? That's what you got to figure out because that's, you know, kind of the defining thing in there. But I have these shirts where I had to wear it, you know, because I was a Seattle supersonics fan and my fan. Other family was in Chicago and so the rivalry because they were in the Whatever. But, um. Back to the music. I can always come back around the tree 3. I would go to either anything on the Top Gun album just because you're gonna take. Why it's the association.

Speaker A: All the Kenny Loggins stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, Kenny Loggins. For me, I would listen to while I was reading books because I didn't have audible at the time. I would listen to Discman. So I'd have the CD and then have the earphones. And I, uh, remember, um. Uh, The Smiths. I grew up on everything. Acdc, everything, Van Halen, everything. You know, sort of like that. And I just. It was anything but country western. And I would tell you with Kenny Chesney and a couple of these guys that have gone in and bastardized David Matthews, I'm even listening to a little bit of country western now. So I've. You put music on, and I'm probably gonna start moving my head.

Speaker A: Well, that answer was tnt. It's a dynamite. So. One of Jamie's favorite post, uh, bath songs, by the way.

Speaker B: Fantastic.

Speaker A: Rob. Thank you so much. Uh. Oh, I had one much lighter one to throw in just because you mentioned it. Are you a crier when you chop onions?

Speaker B: I've tried every single. What do you call them? Mama's lesson or whatever.

Speaker A: Wives tale, wife's wife's tale, everything.

Speaker B: Nothing stops it. A good onion one that's gonna be really good in your flavor. Because I like onions. Like, I like raw onions. I like sauteed onions. I like burnt onions. I like all.

Speaker A: That's a whole. That's a whole other thing. Because I can't stand raw onions. But I think sauteed onions are some of the best flavor and smell in the world.

Speaker B: My parents tried to punish me with onions. Didn't work.

Speaker A: No jokes on you.

Speaker B: I love them. Yeah. Jokes on, uh. Because I lived in Seattle, showing my days before I graduated in high school out of Southern California. Moved a lot. We were home of Costco. And you go to Costco and you get the ketchup and a row of raw onions on the top of it, and you get the flavor and the heat and the crunch and all that. It's just. Sorry. Awesome.

Speaker A: That's great. I love little quirks like that. I have the same. I cry a lot when chopping onions also in general. But like, I'm the same way where it's like you. There's nothing. Like you can kind of try to close your eyes, but that's not safe while chopping. So I don't know. I just learned kind of recently that not everybody has that, like, some people don't cry while chopping onions. Just blows my mind. So crazy stuff.

Speaker B: You can kind of duck your head out, like if you do the kind of duck and dive.

Speaker A: Yeah, but all the. All this is not safe for chopping.

Speaker B: No, no, no, no. Everything. Like I was thinking when you started doing the. I know what this is. But you did that. I was like, no, you're right. Everything is knife safety avert. Like anything you do to try and avert. I mean, I mean, I guess you could put the. Whatever is cotton balls or something up your nose. I've never tried anything like that. That doesn't sound. Yeah, never mind. Don't do that.

Speaker A: Well, as uh, as Bill Raftery says, onions. So Rob, Robbie Grahams, thank you so much. This uh, has been an absolute blast. I know it's been a long time coming. Thank you for, for having me on your show and for obviously that naturally led into this as well. It's like it's a long overdue you coming on here. So appreciate all you're doing. I strongly recommend everybody check out Second Lap podcast. I know you're on all the platforms. You're on Apple, you're on Spotify, on YouTube as well. YouTube even do live streams, which is awesome. More power to you. That's a whole other bag of worms in terms of tech issues and all sorts of things. But you're up for it. So, uh, where else, Rob, uh, whether it's social media or anything else you're doing, you know, Web 3.0 space, like what's your main CTA? What do you want people to check out to learn more about you?

Speaker B: The best way to find me, because in my world, especially when we're looking at web3 and a lot of these ex people is I want to be a doxed real human. You know, you're not talking to some bot. And so I am R h m a t t S o N and all of the socials in a blue check mark fashion so that you know it's me and I only say that and if I tar, if I type R h m a t t S o, you should see how many people are trying to look like they're me with, you know, all the way down. And so uh, it's uh, I guess it's flattering because they're doing that. But yes, just check, check, check me out. I'm on Instagram and Facebook both, as I said, blue check mark. Just to make sure people know that in this sea of digitality of people that you know that you've got a buoy of me over here that you can know that you're Talking to a 54 year old man that's got uh, Einstein and Johnny Cash telling you what you can do for the world.

Speaker A: Well, uh, and smooth sailing. And uh, you know, hopefully a lot more smooth sailing than a blues from a Folsom prison or anything like that.

Speaker B: But Rob, good one. Thank you. I'm grateful. Appreciate you.

Speaker A: Back at you. Final thoughts. Just literally one line. Take us home here. It could be a song lyric. Could be your outlook on life. Just send us home.

Speaker B: Hug a human every day. Make sure it's 20 seconds. It's when you get the best amount of positive, uh, events.

Speaker A: Rob, you are lucky that this episode wasn't edited down to 20 seconds. Ralph, no. Thank you so much. Absolute blast. Long, long, long time coming. Really, really appreciate all you do. Uh, make sure to check out his Second Lap podcast. And for those of you wild listeners, wild viewers out there, make sure to subscribe to wild business growth on your favorite podcast platform or on YouTube. YouTube is axbrandstetter for the video versions and you can find all things Max podcasting, the podcasting to the Max newsletter. Anything else about the show@maxpodcasting.com I hope you all have a nice Memorial Day weekend, uh, in the US at the time of this recording. And until next time, let your business Rob wild. Bring on the bongos.