Episode 59 - Hollywood or Hospitality

Speaker A: There seems to be a real dichotomy in between what owners are thinking and experiencing and believing and what the everyday human being is experiencing, seeing and believing, um, at all of these events. And I keep seeing all this optimism, optimism, optimism. And it feels very unearned optimism to me.

Speaker B: Okay, ready?

Speaker C: This is it. This is the show. What's with the Pineapple? A podcast from the Michigan Restaurant and Lodging Association.

Speaker B: Pineapples don't grow in Michigan.

Speaker C: No, not native to Michigan. Let me write that down. Putting, uh, a, uh, hospitality spin on what exactly is going on in Lansing. Shed some light on the industry, specifically in Michigan. I think we're gonna have some good guests.

Speaker B: Uh, what is with the Pineapple? What's with the industry? What's going on in Michigan?

Speaker C: We can edit this if that's not right. Right.

Speaker B: Crown and core. We did. We did. What's up with Michigan's history or what happened in Michigan's history last week? And now it's crowning Core's turn. What did you bring to the table, Justin?

Speaker C: The highlight of my week is that we're doing crown and core. Why would it be anything different? What's yours?

Speaker B: Right, so the crown, which is the, uh.

Speaker C: I feel like how I just deflected immediately. Yeah, I'm used to it right out of the gate. All right, hit me.

Speaker B: My crown. So to remind people of the highlight of the last week or the last month, now that we're not doing this with each episode is people's response to America as they've attended the World Cup. My assumption is that you've seen none of this because you're chronically offline, and it's really dug your heels into that part of life.

Speaker C: I promise. We didn't prep this in advance, but I did see one. And the Australian guy who talks about Texas Roadhouse.

Speaker B: Oh, I haven't seen that one.

Speaker C: Oh, my God. I was sending this to people, and I don't do social media, but it was so good. And I was like, is he really being authentic, or is this an actor hired by Texas Roadhouse to tell you how great America is? Because he starts talking. He starts. And this is a good segue into, uh, who. Who we are. But he starts talking about the free bag. He's like, it's just a free bag of peanuts. They just give it to you. He's like. And then the bread comes. He's like, I didn't order bread. Of course, I'm not even gonna try to give you the Australian accent, but this guy has.

Speaker B: Can you just Give it a shot.

Speaker C: Nope, there's no shrimp on the bar. I'm not even gonna try it.

Speaker B: Come on.

Speaker C: No, it's not great.

Speaker B: Deflecting again.

Speaker C: That will be used against, uh, me later. Anyway, so he talks about the bread. The bread's amazing. He's like. And then the meal is really reasonably priced. He's like, but then everyone wants to say, yeah, but in Europe and Australia, we don't tip. And isn't tipping awful? He's like, you want to tip these people? These people are the best people. I swear to God. This is his actual take on Texas Roadhouse and how joyous he was to be here in America for this match. And going to a Texas roadhouse was transformative to his life. And by the way, this was a worldly individual, someone who was articulate, well spoken, and this was his take about America and how fantastic Texas Roadhouse is. God bless America. He's like, he goes, I don't know why all Americans are so angry. This is such an amazing thing you have Texas Roadhouse.

Speaker B: It gives you nice perspective.

Speaker C: Love that. The power of the industry, the power of a tip culture.

Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like he was a plant, but I'll have to look that one up. Uh, the one I saw was someone just saying, do you guys have sunsets like this every night? It's like, do you not have sunsets in other countries? Like what? It is interesting to watch the fascination and it helps with the day to day viewpoint that we have. So it's been really refreshing. And that has been my crown and also yours, seemingly. See, isn't this segment nice?

Speaker C: And it's, it's, it's, it's hitting all cylinders today. Honestly, how great the US has been also has been a. Just a really exciting, pleasant surprise.

Speaker B: I haven't really been following.

Speaker C: Oh, they've been so much better. I mean, they clinched going in to the next round after two games. They don't even need that third game.

Speaker B: Oh, wow. Yeah, maybe I'll have to tune in now. I don't get a lot of TV time in this phase of my life.

Speaker C: I hear you. I m hear you.

Speaker B: All right. My core, my hot take. I actually wrote this down in my phone a few weeks ago as I was experiencing it. I'm not trying to be negative, but this is a piece of advice for our operators listening. If you have your menu on your website, which you should, you should have your menu available to view. Don't make me go through an ordering process in order to view the menu. Just let me look at the menu. Every time I go to certain, certain businesses, I have to put in my zip code and they want to see where the closest one is and all of that. I just want to see what the menu is.

Speaker C: Sure. That's a lot.

Speaker B: It's. And it could, it could turn people away. And I'm turning my core, my hot take into a piece of advice for our listeners. Something to be aware of with the user experience.

Speaker C: The retail cousin of this that I feel like I deal with all the time is you go to a site and you want to, uh, you're interested in looking at whatever the retail thing is. And hold on. Spin this wheel and we're gonna get a special discount for you. And oh my gosh, you just got the best discount in the world with this bin. We're gonna need your email address. And if you know, every once in a while you'll feel like, all right,

Speaker B: fine, yeah, it's worth it.

Speaker C: You're like, I just wanna look at this pair of pants.

Speaker B: Or I want this, I just want this vest.

Speaker C: Right. We do love vests around here.

Speaker B: You do.

Speaker C: And then it's just need your email. Oh, and by the way, also just gonna need your cell phone.

Speaker B: Oh, wow. So they can text you the code so that you can access.

Speaker C: Now I've, now I've just to find out that I don't want these pants.

Speaker B: It's creative marketing. Uh, there is usually an X out.

Speaker C: You have to look for it very hard. Very hard.

Speaker B: So you've given out your personal info to a lot of platforms.

Speaker C: I mean, I can hit unsubscribe pretty easily, but, like, do I have to?

Speaker A: Should I?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Make this a little easier for the consumer. All right, that was a fun crown and core.

Speaker B: Lock it.

Speaker C: Yeah, let's, uh, segue.

Speaker B: All right, Pineapple Express, we have a couple of stories here. So fast food traffic has taken a hit in May as higher gas prices settle in. Maybe they'll start to go down soon. I don't know. But historically, whenever gas prices are pushed up by a, uh, supply demand event like war, fast food restaurants with drive thrus tend to take the biggest hit. And May traffic numbers seem to support this. QSR traffic declined minus 1.6% year over year in May, which is a step back from April's negative 0.8%. Visits have been recovering since November 2025. But then they have slipped again. What's your take on this, do you think? It would seem to me like people's natural next step would be to actually, if they are eating out, they're going for a cheaper option in the quick service space, but they're actually making more for their dollar if they're going to be going out.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think as costs go up, people always scale down. Restaurants as we've talked about before, are so embedded in the culture and in the day to day lives of most Americans that the idea of just, well, I'm just going to go home and make a can of tuna fish or something does not really resonate with a lot of Americans. So they find a way to scale down. If we're at a point where, uh, we have the increase in gas prices is working its way through the entire supply chain and impacting the value segment of. That's a concerning sign. Right. If they're even seeing traffic declines. But you're seeing it everywhere. You're seeing in every aspect of this industry, uh, the costs are going up even in the distribution size. Interesting article that mainline distributors, right. Have had to try to pass on a surcharge because the diesel prices are higher than even the standard unleaded that you and I use. So it is a, uh, challenge there for those who are getting the basic distribution that they need. Right. The food stocks coming in, the commodities and it's going up in that side of the equation as well because that has to come from somewhere. Right. The distributors are dealing with those costs and it all just keeps flowing down the line, making it a little harder for the consumer. Which is why you see some of these traffic issues. It's tough.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'll end that story with a silver lining. That new research from the National Restaurant association does show that 50, 56% of consumers have spent their discretionary money at a restaurant recently.

Speaker C: This is what I'm saying.

Speaker B: Okay, moving on to our next topic. This is kind of a, a big one here. Jersey Mike's has surpassed Chick Fil A to become America's top ranked fast food chain in customer service.

Speaker C: Well, this is not true. In the Winslow household, Chick Fil A still reigns. But Jersey Mike's has been on the rise for a while. I like a Jersey Mike's. Don't get me wrong. Chick Fil a still king in the Winslow household. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker B: Yeah, Jersey Mike's Top Chick Fil A's 11 year run atop, uh, America's fast food customer satisfaction rankings. According to the 2026American Customer Satisfaction Index, they scored an 84 out of 100 and Chick Fil A scored a 83. So it's close. That's almost a tie as far as I'm concerned. But yeah, this is interesting because Chick Fil A is the golden standard, right? It's what you think of in every way. And yeah, still is the golden standard for their.

Speaker C: I think of them at our own custom day that we just had and the level of customer service and it's showing up. It was a free lunch for everyone with many options. Chick Fil A continuing to be the place, uh, people wanted to go. And the level of the team that they had there that day was so overly optimistic and happy. And you just people you want to gravitate towards. Which is why Chick Fil A again, in. In my household, still still number one and will be for a while. But, uh, Jersey Mike's, the kids. I will say this. The kids do like a Jersey Mike's.

Speaker B: Jersey Mike's is good. Yeah, it is good. I don't really have one near me, I don't think. But yeah, we just went to Chick Fil A a few days ago too.

Speaker C: I will say this. I don't even know if it remembers Jersey. Jersey Gian School Jersey Sub Place is still my wife's number one.

Speaker B: I agree.

Speaker C: On the power list of all subs,

Speaker B: that was probably one of my biggest cravings when I was pregnant.

Speaker C: Oh, nice. Which number?

Speaker B: Uh, for the meal. Oh, gosh, I don't know which one it is. It's the Italian combo. Something. Something delicious. That's my go to. Yeah, the one in where I live. I guess I shouldn't say. The city just closed right when I was pregnant and that was really a bummer for me. Okay, let's move into pineapple plaudits. I'm excited to talk about this one. And I know that you are not Storm Cloud Brewing Company. Have you. Have you heard of it?

Speaker C: I have no hate towards Storm. I mean, listen, I know you don't

Speaker B: have hate, but you don't have the passion that lives in my soul.

Speaker C: A thousand percent true. For Stormcloud and Frankfurt in general.

Speaker B: Yes. Have you been to Stormcloud? I feel like we've talked about this, but I don't remember.

Speaker C: Great brewery.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Very good brewery.

Speaker B: So they just celebrated their 13th birthday this past weekend. We happened to be up in Frankfurt for our wedding anniversary. They had a big celebration. I've been going there since. I have a photo. Since 2013, before I was even 21. I was not drinking, just to be clear. But yeah, all the way from back when they just had beer and popcorn to now where they have a full menu. They have a distribution center. So they have been long term members, I think since 2013. Actually they've been a member of the MRLA, so. So I wanted to give them their plaudits and wish them a happy birthday. And I think we need to get them on the pod. I don't know why I haven't done that yet.

Speaker C: I expect this. I mean, you're booking this 80% of these gigs. I think anytime now, uh, Stormcloud and maybe the mayor of Frankfurt can find their way in here.

Speaker B: I'm on it.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Okay. One more plaudit that we have here is that Pine hall has opened at Hudson's Detroit. Uh, earlier this month. On June 11, they opened up, uh, their first brick and mortar to open at Hudson's Detroit. It's located on the 12th floor of the building. It, uh, features two bars, 300 seats, and a 3,300 square foot wraparound outdoor terrace.

Speaker C: Have you seen photos? It is beautiful.

Speaker B: It is beautiful.

Speaker C: I need this place. No, I have not. I have not yet. Just waiting. Andrew Lieber. Listen, any invite that you want to send, I'll head over. Let's have a meeting at Pine hall

Speaker B: and uh, a drinker tail.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's exceptional. I mean, I think it's really interesting. This is the first time Danny Meyer, world renowned restaurateur Danny Meyer, is investing in participating in the Detroit restaurant community. I think that's a big sign of the state of, of the culinary experience in Detroit. Right. We have, we're, we're kind of riding a heater in Detroit right now with, to say the least, Michelin, uh, ratings, frankly going on right now. We don't know when or where, but with the announcement coming out, uh, probably next spring, ish. On which restaurants in Detroit will get a Michelin star, which is very exciting. And then to see, you know, really, I mean, the, the OG of New York hospitality, Danny Meyer coming to Detroit. That's big time. Um, and I'm excited about it. I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tease a little bit a restaurant business story that's gonna be coming out. Maybe by the time this podcast airs, maybe, maybe it'll still be a couple days. But they're doing a big feature on, um, the Detroit restaurant scene right now. I did an uh, and I'm pretty excited to read it because they're excited about the where, where the scene is now from where, where it was not that long ago. Um, and some, some good national exposure for what we know and have known for a long time about how Great. Our, uh, restaurant scene is in Detroit.

Speaker B: Yeah, they're kicking off this new series that they're doing and starting with Detroit, which I think says a lot within itself.

Speaker C: Absolutely. All right, Emily. I am very excited for our guest for this episode. Uh, with us today, Glenn Hossman. He is the hospitality industry's most well known podcaster. That's how I know Glenn. Commenter, event host, and moderate moderator. His no Vacancy podcast series has been named the number one industry podcast for 2026. It's fifth time in that slot. Glenn, my God, that's amazing. He's also been recognized.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was fun, but I'll shut up. Sorry.

Speaker C: Hey, man, I'm not done praising you. I've got so much more here, so much more to hit on.

Speaker A: Highly uncomfortable. I'll be quiet.

Speaker C: That's, that's the goal. Uh, he's also been recognized by the International Hospitality Institute as a top social media influencer in hospitality for 2026 and named one of top 50 most inspirational people in global hospitality in 24 and 25. Everyone's aspiring to be Glenn Hosman. He publishes the novacancynews.com hospitality, uh, news site, as well as a professional speaker, consultant, strategist, board member for various organizations and so much more. The no Vacancy Live podcast attracts the biggest names in hospitality, including major public companies, CEOs, industry leaders, including, by the way, many members of the MRLA board of directors. Uh, additionally, he hosts no Vacancy News Today, a news and analysis program focused on hospitality headlines, and Friday Night Audit, a comedy focused happy hour show that's, uh, been named the number nine top industry podcast. Well, he thinks it's funny. At least. I think that makes sense. Also a good one, by the way. It is a great way to wind down a leak a week. All right? He has been quoted in leading publications such as the New York Times, USA Today, Washington Post, Forbes, MSNBC.com, uh, CNN.com and the Chicago Tribune. What, we couldn't get you in the Detroit News? We gotta. Let's get some Michigan based lunch here.

Speaker A: I know I was in the Detroit airport this week. Maybe that's getting me a little bit closer.

Speaker C: Underrated airport, by the way. We love DW here. All right, I can't keep going on forever, but if you have not already been listening to Glenn, make sure you track them. Um, you can, you can find them at glenn glen@novacancynews.com and at traveling glenn with two ends on all your social platforms. All right? I've made you awkward as long as I possibly can. Glenn Houseman, welcome to what's with the Pineapple podcast, man.

Speaker A: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm really stoked to be here. This is awesome.

Speaker C: This is great. I hope. I hope this goes a million different directions. We never anticipate Emily's gonna freak out about it, but we're gonna make this fun. That is the goal.

Speaker A: That's what it's all. That's what it's all about, man. Right. Having fun conversations. Ah. Hopefully, uh, get people more excited and passionate about our amazing business.

Speaker C: It's a Tuesday morning. There are no cocktails involved, unfortunately, but we're gonna find a way to get through this one.

Speaker B: Speak for yourself. I. You don't know what I have in this drink over here.

Speaker C: Emily, you've got the first question, if you can. If you can get it out.

Speaker B: All right, so let's start with a little bit of history, Glenn, how did you get into the hospitality industry to where you are now with the number one industry podcast?

Speaker C: Number one industry podcast, Glenn. Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah, I've been doing this podcast now for more than 10 years, which is absolutely crazy to think about. I even did another show before that, working for somebody else for 100 episodes in a couple of years. But I originally started my career in, uh, music and entertainment side of the business. I live here on Long island at a long time in Manhattan and Brooklyn for years and years and years. But right after college here in Long Island, I don't know what the hell I want to do with my life. So I was at, uh, good old Tower Records. If, uh, any of the old people.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Remember that.

Speaker C: Bring it back to 90s.

Speaker A: Yeah. They had all these free giveaway magazines, right? And I'm like, I picked one up and I'm reading. I'm like, I could write better than this. My buddy's like, dude, that's what you should do. And the light bulb went off. And I said, yeah, I'm gonna do that. So I became a music, uh, and entertainment writer. And pretty quickly in I realized that because you're a music and entertainment writer, they don't have to pay you any real money because we're supposed to think it's cool to hang out with famous people for free. And then the people that interviewed famous people kind of. I don't know what they were all about. They were. They real, real suck upy. And this is in. Now, mind you, this is in the 1990s, this before the Internet, and I already felt all that ickiness and gro and I love live music. So I stuck with it for about 18 months, going to concerts and hanging out with bands and stuff like that. But then I answered an ad in uh, the New York Times and I got myself a job at Hotel business magazine in 1996 and moved from Hollywood to hospitality. The best decision I ever made in my life. That kind of went from, kind of went from there.

Speaker C: Those are two distinct and different crowds. How immediately different and more and more business oriented did it feel when you went to hospital?

Speaker A: Oh well, uh, I worked for hotel business for a while and then I went and I started doing freelance stuff. And while I was doing that I also worked for my buddy. He was a music video editor. Now this is 1998, 1999, 2000 at My Music. My buddy is a music video editor for uh, basically the entire uh, hip hop scene out of uh, New York. And this is when videos were costing like a million dollars a pop and a million dollars was real money. So I was writing stories for hospitality magazines while running my buddy's music video company and hanging uh, out in the uh, rap scene in the late 1990s as well as uh, rock scene earlier on. And the juxtaposition between the two industries are incredible. It really is the yin and the yang. And the entertainment stuff, it felt very take, take, take. But in our side of the business it's give, give, give. And that's where happiness comes from. And that's where I think grounds us all as human beings. And I think that's overall while I gravitated towards hospitality because the take, take, take mentality and the um, the sense of entitlement by a lot of celebrities, not all, and the people that work for them just cause a lot of toxicity in life and it's just not worth it. And I think that a lot of well balanced people wind up going into hospitality because they like to serve.

Speaker C: That is 100% true. And I can't even the word toxicity and Glenn Halsman in the same sentence doesn't make any sense to me because you just bring so much positive energy all the time, which is why you are always invited to seemingly every conference. I'm not even sure if you have a home address. You might just have a traveling roadshow. That seems like you are literally every show and conference available.

Speaker A: So when as we're recording this last week I was in San Antonio at High Tech and the Hospitality Creators Summit and I was sitting next to this one guy, Scott City. And he's awesome. He does not have a home m. He has A storage facility somewhere in Florida he occasionally stops by at. So I'm on the road 150, 175 nights this year, but that guy's really, uh, really crushing it. And by the way, I sat by my pool all weekend and just stared into space and it was magical.

Speaker C: That sounds fantastic. Well, you're. So you're getting the sense of the industry, the pulse in real time, all the time at all of these different events. What are you seeing out there right now? What stands out to you is unique about the now for this industry.

Speaker A: Unique about the now is I think there's a couple of things going on. Overall, I think the, uh, there seems to be a real dichotomy in between what owners are thinking and experiencing and believing and what the everyday human being is experiencing, seeing and believing, um, at all of these events. And I keep seeing all the, this optimism, optimism, optimism. And it feels very unearned optimism to me because I see a lot of people very strapped, unable to, you know, have run up debt, are unable to pay their bills, seemingly coming unglued. And this, uh, to America's thing has been something that I've been following for the last year, year and a half right now. And I'm still trying to figure out what's going on. So I'm glad owners feel optimist and I'm glad that maybe they know something, I don't know. But I'm really stuck with this real nagging feeling that underneath it all, something really bad is happening. And it gives me a lot of, Gives uh, me a lot of pause in thought about what's going on. And the other thing I see not to be, uh, too, too dramatic, everybody. The other thing is when it comes to technology and dealing with, uh, artificial intelligence, we've definitely moved from the NOW with more AI, AI kind of flashy messaging to how it's practically being used. It's no longer. Everybody's thinking about it. It's going to be the savior for all things. I think the industry is settling on, um, thankfully empowering people to be better at their job so people can serve people is becoming the theme that's come clearly into frame with me in every single interview I've done on technology. I was originally freaked out that it was going to be the race to the bottom for profitability, but I'm seeing the race to the top with profitability when it comes to, uh, that. So those are the two big things that I'm experiencing right now.

Speaker C: Put a pin in that AI conversation because I would Think we do want to go down that road and have that conversation. But you talked about the two Americas and it's triggering for me a question I actually was asked by one of our members knowing that you were going to be on. And so this association on the hotel side is maybe excuse, less corporate, more family owned resort, right? Think Northern Michigan and there's a million different mom and pop style, uh, resorts for your, your pure Michigan. Spring, summer, fall, maybe winter for some, for some of you more adventurous types.

Speaker A: Not, not me, not you.

Speaker C: That is not you. Yes, I am seeing what is clearly a desert background for, for you there in your, in your, in your screen. But uh, but in Michigan that, that makes up a disproportionate of our state uh, association membership and probably a lot of other state hotel associations. And the question that they get is they feel the pressure. They, private equity is knocking on their door. They know the potential that is yet to be fully realized in Northern Michigan property. Whether you're talking Mackinac island, whether you're talking Traverse City, there are some highlight areas where you're really seeing the pressure come on from private equity. Where do you think that lands in the marketplace? You think we're at a saturation point in that? Or is private equity going to have a broader, uh, larger stake in this industry? Because we've seen it on the restaurant side and it is not closely tied to hospitality.

Speaker A: No, I, I don't see any reason why it's not already on the technology side to fold it back into that. It's all private equity. P E, P E, P E. It's driving that and venture capital. It's all, it's driving the entire tech business right now. And uh, I don't think private equity and family owned businesses are going to work together. They may sell out and retire. But if you have that entrepreneurial solo spirit suddenly taking direction from uh, private equity that doesn't understand your business, doesn't understand what the true meaning of hospitality is, it's going to be a problem. And I think guys, we're seeing this just generally speaking across the board when it comes to hospitality. The change of the industry from the uh, Cummins, Wilson, Harris, Rosen, those types of founders mentality to, and there's not a smack at them, but the Cornell graduate that's focused more on real estate and that it's just, it's too disparate ways of thinking. And I think right now there's a silent battle going on between that family owned or the Maverick Hotel spirit and that Wall Street Mentality that's trying to, uh, corporatize and profit as much as possible. Not going to say anyone's evil or bad, but I think the reality is you got those two sides that are really quietly fighting against each other right now.

Speaker C: Yeah, there's a lot of liquidity out there chasing opportunity and it's found its way into this industry. Where do you. So do you think 10 years from now there's a much larger stake of PE and how do you manage? Because you've talked about AI being fused to try to find a way to put hospitality forward, making you more efficient so you can use more time to be with your guests and front human facing. How, how does that, how does that match with private equity? And you know, if you look into the not too distant future, where are we heading with that?

Speaker A: Well, I'm not sure it does match, but first of all, I appreciate you giving me a chance to make prediction in 10 years from now, because I could say anything.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. No one's going to hold you to.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. I think by then, um, Skynet will have taken over and the conversation will be, uh, moot. So it doesn't really matter. But assuming Skynet does not take over by then, I think we're always going to have a yin and the yang between corporate and the independent hotelier. That's the incredible thing about this business is you can't stop creative entrepreneurs from living out their dreams. And they're also, I think, kind of like the farm team for the big corporations. You see it with great M brands such as graduate hotels that then graduated to corporate ownership and now those people will probably go on and create something else that's unique, different and stays ahead of the trend. So I think there always will be opportunity for entrepreneurs and I think that people that love travel and hospitality will always have access to properties that were created by, uh, amazing people focused on the world of hospitality as well.

Speaker B: I agree with you. I think that there's. I for whatever my opinion matters on this subject, everything. Right. I think that there's two lanes and they will continue to coexist. It's just how will they match up with one another? I'd like to sort of into my lane of thought on this topic overall, which last week you mentioned that you were at the first ever hospitality creator summit and I believe you launched this.

Speaker A: This was your summit, it was not mine. I was the opening speaker.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: But it was not. It's created by Anna Blue and Anthony Melchiori.

Speaker B: So you launched the summit as the opening speaker. Not in concept.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And we know, we know Anna had

Speaker A: nothing to do with creating. And Anna's amazing people have asked me to help create events a lot. It is way too much of a headache for me. Not something that's my passionate about. So Anna Blue, you rock it for doing it. So thank you for her for doing it.

Speaker B: Give Anna her credit. Yeah, she spoke at our Women in Hospitality Leadership conference a couple years ago. So what was the inspiration behind the Creator Summit? And I also want to put Justin on the spot who refuses to use social media. And I'd like to use your expertise in this moment to convince Justin that he needs to be using social media for our industry as a representative.

Speaker A: Well, we'll start with the latter.

Speaker C: This, uh, is dangerous territory. Glenn, be careful.

Speaker A: Seriously bro, if I, if I had nothing to do with social media, I would literally be living in a van down by the river. My entire career now today is simply because of the advancement in technology and social media and my ability to communicate with people in this sort of way rather than on a piece of paper that gets printed in a factory. I thank every day for this goodness, even as the corporate overlords kind of tighten their grasp on us. But while the Internet is still, uh, free and open and relatively, uh, a good place for me to express my point of view, then I'm going to continue to do that and hopefully people will follow me along. So now the other question was what again, Emily? Oh, the Creator Summit. Yeah. Anna thought, um, this was really the perfect time to get started with it because there's really been an exchange, a big change in media. I started no vacancy news 10 years ago in the podcast because I saw a big change that was going on in media in general. The opportunity to create content marketing driven materials. So I'm like, I could follow my dream, I could do something I wanted to. In this vein now, flash forward 10 years later. There's a lot of other great creators that have joined me in this space. And that's why six, five, six years ago they started doing the hospitality, uh, awards for podcasts and all of that because finally we had started to arrive. But now in this juncture is the perfect timing because we, the creator community are really supplanting traditional media and the way that we, uh, the way that people make decisions. And Anna saw a great white space to be able to help connect the dots, bring in some forward thinking brands like alliance and Margaritaville and my place, hotels that work with people like me and Others like me, um, to try to get people to understand how great this sector is and how much you can change the way you do things, to kind of get yourself out of your old, uh, marketing methodologies. So kudos to her on that. And then, you know, it was just a great day.

Speaker B: How do you think that operators should be using creators or influencers in their marketing, or better yet, in my opinion, becoming creators and influencers themselves for their own content?

Speaker A: It's really, I think it's essential for, for them to be able to do that. We've become a lot more crowded in terms of the messaging we get. I don't think you could escape any minute without advertising banging on your head. And if you're in particular segments in hospitality, if you're a hospitality franchise company, if you're a hospitality technology company, if you're trying to be seen in front of customers, it's very difficult to do it in the traditional ways. Emails don't typically work. It's very difficult when you're at all of these conferences, they cost a whole lot of money. You know, um, by partnering with somebody like myself, it's a lot easier to get into. You get a trusted name. If they like your product or service, they'll highlight you, they'll work with you to be able to deliver your messaging in a way that works for me. Um, I'd like to understand company strategies and create stuff behind that to help them. So I think we're just at the dawn of a new era on the way that we buy and sell and communicate and learn with each other. And it's really awesome for all of us in the creator community to be finally getting that representation.

Speaker B: So you think that Justin should become, um, an influencer for our industry in Michigan?

Speaker A: I think Michigan is missing out on an incredible opportunity to finally be known by people.

Speaker C: All right, this is a perfect segue for the question that I have wanted to ask you from the second you agreed, which is you're number one in so many different ways on here. Driven primarily by, not exclusively by, your analysis is good, but people have so many choices for content now, so many means, uh, to get the kind of information they want, but they want to find a way to get it in a way that doesn't feel like you're taking the medicine you don't want to have to take. Like, you know, you have to do it, but you don't want to do it. You find a way to make it. Very entertaining, very engaging. We have tried to make this, this podcast an avenue to Take hospitality news in Michigan in a way that hopefully is a little less like taking medicine like than some of the other means they could be. My question to you is because your personality drives all of it, right? And your enthusiasm and your optimism is right there. That is making you number one. How do you know where to draw the line between appropriate cheekiness that is fun and engaging and holy shit, that is inappropriate. And we probably shouldn't be venturing down this road.

Speaker A: Just kind of figuring it out over the years.

Speaker C: All right, you're winging it.

Speaker A: Yeah. I grew up, I grew up in a pre Internet era, so I was allowed to say a lot of dumb stuff that I'm not going to be held accountable for 30 years later. So I figured out what those boundaries are. And the biggest thing that I figured out is I really try to be very self effacing and never take myself seriously. I'm always the butt of my own jokes. You know, I'm not. I try never to make fun of people and I always just try to, you know, f around in a way that, um, just makes everybody happy. So that's the line I, I kind of take. Right. Make fun of myself, never others and just kind of put a lot of positive energy out in the universe and be as authentic as possible. And all that stuff comes back at you.

Speaker C: You're the Charles Barkley of hospitality industry news and podcasting, right? Like, Charles is a legend, but he also is self effacing in his jokes, uh, the time and people. People love that man. He's also definitely authentic. So, uh, you are the Charles Barkley of hospitality news.

Speaker A: I've never sunk a three pointer, but I do appreciate the.

Speaker C: Well, he didn't sink a lot of those either, but he was a hell of a rebounder.

Speaker A: I don't know much about basketball. That's about the best I could do. I was in San Antonio. I'm a New Yorker. I was in San Antonio. Yeah, the Knicks were there. And, uh, everyone's like, you big Knicks fan? I'm like, I'm like, yeah, no, I wish I was. I don't want to take credit, but, but in 1986, I was all about the Mets. Let's just say, let's just say that.

Speaker C: There you go. One time to shine.

Speaker B: Justin always finds a way to weave in basketball. Most of the time I've lost and I just kind of encourage him as we go.

Speaker C: It is the prism through which I experience life. It's, it's, it's.

Speaker A: I do not, I do not get sports and One of my secrets for, uh, networking and stuff like that. I do not know sports. I do not like sports. I do not find interest in sports. Sports are great. I'll go to any sporting event with my friends. Freaking fun. But I'm not into it. I'd rather talk about the business of sports than so and so players. So my big secret for those of you out there who don't know a particular subject is take the information in the first conversation you have at the cocktail party and then say it very confidently in the second conversation you have. Cocktail party, and they will give you more information and you continue to, uh, fake your way through. And you can use that model to fake your entire career. I've been doing it for decades.

Speaker C: It's a brilliant.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker C: It's a brilliant strategy right there. I think we just found our lead right there.

Speaker B: I'm gonna have to listen back to this in the edit and just see if he's been doing that to us in this interview. And I just haven't noticed.

Speaker C: I love it.

Speaker A: I don't know, uh, me. Me and my on screen personality have become one now. So, uh, I've become as authentically myself as I can be on air. Just as, uh, they said in Spinal Tap, just up to 11.

Speaker C: That's all right.

Speaker B: So I know we asked you to look 10 years ahead earlier, but if I asked you to look six months ahead, so the stakes are a little higher there.

Speaker C: Yeah. Gonna be held accountable to six months, Glenn. Just be careful.

Speaker A: Fortunately, you wouldn't know this, but in the, uh, Internet era, uh, people don't remember anything past 24 hours.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker A: Think I might be.

Speaker C: Very short attention spans or five minutes sometimes.

Speaker B: If you're scrolling. If you're doom scrolling.

Speaker A: Yeah. What are we doing here again? I'm confused. Are we.

Speaker B: Where am I?

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, m. Am I signing up to save, uh, more on my auto insurance? I don't know what's happening.

Speaker B: Sign on the dotted line. So what trend are you seeing? Or you could foreshadow that you think operators aren't paying enough attention to but will wish that they had six months from now?

Speaker A: That's a really good question.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, I think in six months from now, they're going to have to really be paying attention to some more financial realities, I think. I don't think things are going to get any cheaper. I think it's becoming a lot more complicated out there. And I really do think whatever bubble this is is going to burst. The top 10% of uh, American society supporting 60 plus percent of all spending combined with I think ah, 13% now of uh, mortgages are in default or something like that. Credit card debts, uh, the highest it's ever been. You could already see the auto market kind of plummeting so there's a lot negativity out there. So I think in six months the, the folks that are too optimistic will uh, hopefully come back down to earth and be able to better focus on problem solving to create great value in order to include profitability from a total revenue perspective instead of just focused on stuff like uh, pushing rates.

Speaker B: Are there ways that you think operators. We kind of touched on this and then moved on. But are there ways that operators should be using AI in, in that category without losing the human touch?

Speaker A: Oh totally. You got to just figure you could use AI for the actionable insights to create those human interactions. I have been providing information to hotel brands for decades upon decades and they still do not know me or leverage me at all. They should know by now because there's enough information out there and AI hopefully will help them do this that I love going to see concerts. I'm a person that would travel to do that. So why do I continue to get things to play more golf like places here, the incredible JW Marriott, Desert Ridge where I hang out in the pool. Because I don't golf. But brands never get me right. They don't really understand me. And I think the other thing is that we got to pull back a little bit on the overall loyalty programs. Get more towards being human uh, beings. We're not. I think we're getting to the point where we all realize that it's all about. The companies are all banks and they're all about credit cards and passing money to each other and we're just being used as a pawn and all that. So I'd like to see a little bit more connecting to us as real human beings.

Speaker C: I'm gonna bite my tongue because we could aggressively agree with you and go down a whole rabbit hole here that

Speaker A: we're not gonna do that.

Speaker C: No, choose not to. But, but I'm in concurrence with you right.

Speaker A: Right now anymore. Our career so far.

Speaker C: I like that. This is what. Listen, we will pivot to the lightning round where we have some fun questions to ask you uh, that are more personal. I'm going to ask now this is. I'm going to go off script. We usually have a preset, we'll get to them. But I do want to ask.

Speaker A: Wow, I've had my team writing answers

Speaker C: for the entire team's been working around the clock. I want to know, but you said you travel for concerts. Have you gone to the Sphere in Vegas, uh, for a specific show? And if so, what's your favorite show that you've seen at the Sphere in Vegas?

Speaker A: I went through three shows at the end of April, beginning of May, April 30th, May 1st and 2nd. Last set of Fish shows over there. Overall I've been for 200 fish shows.

Speaker C: I can see this.

Speaker A: Yeah, four in 2024. I did a dead and company show there as well. And then I did uh, three shows like I said, just this past, uh, April, May, which was awesome. The technology has gotten a lot better in the last couple of years. Pretty cool.

Speaker C: For sure. For sure. Does that mean that. That does. I listen. Is that a perfect segue to the last song you listen to is a specific Fish song? Is it a Dead song?

Speaker A: Uh, no, it is not. I don't. I love, love, love that. But I don't necessarily listen to that when I'm sitting at home in my backyard. I just discovered a band that I never heard about called uh, the Dead South. They're out of Saskatchewan and they're basically just like guitars and a bass and they all look like cowboys from like the 1800s kind of deal. And their whole music is in that kind of energy and vibe. I also for just for some reason watched a documentary on Squeeze and have been listening to Squeeze non stop over the last couple of weeks. And ah, an awesome band called called Krung Bin, which is you uh, should check out as well.

Speaker C: A Saskatchewan reference.

Speaker A: A H R U. Yeah. So my musical tastes are all over. I love absolutely everything uh, musically and in Vegas besides Fish. Just in the last year I saw ah, like Barry Manilow, uh, Santana. Oh yeah, Sammy Hagar. Um, I've seen uh, you know, Journey there. Poison. I've seen Scorpions. Uh, so like every, you know, I like this.

Speaker C: I'm glad I asked that question. And I can't believe we got a Saskatchewan reference because I like this crazy uh, band called Rural Alberta Advantage, which is uh. Same region. Same region.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker C: All right. Crazy stuff.

Speaker B: All right, I'm gonna go off script really quick too then. Electric Forest is this weekend in Michigan. What's your favorite music festival to go to? We're just doing different lightning round questions.

Speaker A: All right, so here's uh, here's, here's the deal. I'm too old to do a lot of these music festivals now. I Used to love doing it. Now, for those of you who don't know, Fish was actually the creator of the Modern Music Festival. And the first one ever was 30 years ago this August, or I think it's this August 1996, maybe August 1997, where they took an Air Force base over decommissioned Air Force base over in Plattsburgh, New York, and did three days of um, them and camping and art exhibits and all of that. And then those people that helped create it went to go on and start to do all these other festivals. And this was all before Lollapalooza. So the best one I ever, ever, ever, ever went to was the end of 1999 into 2000 when the whole world was freaked out about Y2K and technology ending. My buddies and I rented a Winnebago. We drove from New York to the Everglades in Florida, where Fish played multiple concerts in on a Seminole Indian reservation, including a New Year's Eve set that went from 11:45pm until 7:00am straight. Wow. Uh, unbelievable. So that was the best music festival.

Speaker C: Now that is a jam band. 11:45. That is insane. That's a really good answer. That's. That's insane. That's. I, uh, like that dedication, by the way.

Speaker A: Yeah, man. Also, I was. I was at the end of my 20s, so I, yeah, I can party all night and do all of that,

Speaker B: you know, unaffected by the. The non stop. Well, I'm glad I went off script for that. All right, we'll hit you with two more. What is the last show that you? Streamed?

Speaker C: Do you watch tv? Does Glenn have time for tv?

Speaker A: I don't really watch tv. And which is really funny because I grew up loving tv. I am a total creation of being Home Alone and watching game shows and talk shows and all of that kind of stuff. I was the type of kid that could tell you the entire primetime schedule for all the major networks, including going back to Dumont in the 1950s, what shows they had all the way through the 80s. But somewhere around the post TiVo into the streaming revolution, I lost complete interest in TV as I started to travel and my attention span changed and I can't watch anything. But I did just watch a bunch of episodes of the Scrubs reunion show because I really love that particular show. And I'm going to do the Malcolm in the Middle reunion coming up next.

Speaker C: The Scrubs re. Uh, reunion I did watch. It was pretty good. It was, it was a lot of nostalgia. But, uh, it was, it was good to see that one back. I like that, that's a good call. All right, favorite tourism destination. We, we would love to. We would love you to name a Michigan reference point, but listen, you are not held to the confines of the men's state.

Speaker A: I got one, I got one for you.

Speaker C: What do you got?

Speaker A: So shout out to my, my brother, Chris Green, president of Humanitarian Hotels. Got to go up to their property on Mackinaw island as well as the St. John's Golf Club outside Detroit. Crazy trip up there and back to do our Friday night audit show up there. But boom, my mind was blown. Going up there and get. Being taken up to the property on the, you know, the Inn at Stonecliff, on the carriage. It. And how it forced you to slow down. And I hadn't felt anything like that since I grew up on Long island in the 70s and 80s. Going out to Fire island, which also had no cars. So really, really cool. I highly recommend it. Taking that super fast ferry across and seeing that amazing bridge that should never have been built but somehow was while going over there is awesome. So highlight, uh, highlight to that and I'd love to get back up there so much.

Speaker C: All right, I'm going to pitch this right now in real time. Next year for our summer board meeting, we will be on Mackinac Island. Our chair of the association owns Mission Point Resort on Mackinac Island. Let's, let's find a way to get you in as a, as a speaker and we'll do a whirlwind tour.

Speaker A: Well, I got a book coming out in January, so that might be just the excuse.

Speaker C: Perfect. Book tour. I like that. Let's, let's do a plug for the book. What is, what is the, uh, the title of forthcoming book?

Speaker A: All right, so the, the book is really kind of the, uh, the synthesis of uh, my personal growth as well as amazing, uh, stories of hospitality heroes and other folks that have overcome stuff. So it's called Stop Running Scared and it's all about how you should, uh, channel fear into positive energy to drive your success instead of keeping you away from being successful. So should be. It should be a hoot.

Speaker C: Pencil. Pencil me in for purchasing that one. That. I like that.

Speaker A: Yeah, it should be great. I talked, I got like. Because I, I'm so fortunate and I was the first, you know, I was the OG podcast. So I've gotten a lot of incredible interviews in. So um, I use material that I have from like world renowned hotelier, the late Harris Rosen, uh, Sheila Johnson. I have an interview in there with the first Air Force pilot who is A female from the country of Botswana. So really cool people, different people that we don't normally think about that are outside, like the, uh, the Kevin's Wilson type of variety, uh, of person that we spoke about earlier.

Speaker C: Perfect. All right, we're going to get you out of here with one more question. Emily, what do you got?

Speaker B: All right, what is your go to cocktail or beer of choice?

Speaker C: It's like. It's like we're on Friday night audit right now.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm. I'm a, uh, tequila straight, uh, tequila kind of guy at most, most of the times when I'm out and about. However, I do know realistically that that is not necessarily the best way to continue to network over a long period of time. So lately I've been drinking a lot of Modelos, particularly on Friday night audit, because they're a little bit lower in alcohol. I'm a sucker for blue. Uh, moon as well. Uh, Allagash white, I really like as well. And, uh, up in your part of the world, I had a spotted pig, and I've been chasing it ever since.

Speaker C: Oh, nice. Very nice. That is not one choice. That is a man, a connoisseur of the industry right there and its offerings. I appreciate that.

Speaker A: How lucky are we to get to eat and drink and experience all of these different things with, uh, amazing, awesome professionals?

Speaker C: It is a blessing every day to be able to represent this industry. Glenn, it's been a blessing to have you on. What's with a Pineapple Podcast. Thank you for making time for this. This has been really great.

Speaker A: Thanks. It's great seeing you. And I guess I won't see you online.

Speaker C: Yeah, probably not so much online, but in person in 2027. All right, we're going to. We're going to. We're going to be doing a full tour for Stop Running Scared.

Speaker A: The heart disease Gets to me. Then. Then we won't see each other. But assuming I'm alive, that'd be awesome.

Speaker C: Thanks, guys. Love to see you. Thanks, Glenn.

Speaker A: Sam.