NFT Gucci Sweaters In The Metaverse

Speaker A: Foreign. We're, uh, back on Zoom, but now we're across the planet again. Are we? Yeah.

Speaker B: How's California?

Speaker A: Honestly, not too bad. I've been on. I've lost count of how many walks I've been to, and then I've scheduled so many baseball games. So I'm just. I'm just glad to be, um, you know, have. I'm just glad to have my window open without inhaling copious amounts of dust.

Speaker B: Uh, uh, yes. And I'm baking 125 degrees. In other news.

Speaker A: But how's. Yeah, how. How's everything been on, uh, your end?

Speaker B: Uh, you know, not bad. I've, uh, I've been obsessed with this, uh, new game recently.

Speaker A: Oh, what's it called?

Speaker B: It's called Stray.

Speaker A: Oh, is that the one where you play as a cat?

Speaker B: Yes. You are a cat.

Speaker A: Interesting. Okay, what do you think of my

Speaker B: wildest fantasies have now come true? I'm a cat.

Speaker A: Right. Nice.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, it's really fun. What I love about it is that there's a dedicated meow button. So you press oh, and you just meow.

Speaker A: Seriously? Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, it serves certain purposes in the game, but you could just like, randomly walk and meow. And, uh, I think it's very interesting. Like, I saw somewhere online that there was basically a voice actor cat who was recorded for the, uh, for.

Speaker A: For.

Speaker B: I think it's one of the developers cats or something. And, um, you know, all the, like, little things they do. Like, you know, you can kind of sneak up in places and fall asleep sometimes and scratch things, and you could be a cat.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker B: It's fun. It's very well animated, very cat like.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, one thing I heard about that game is, like, you, um, it's been like, the map's been so well designed for, like, the nap spots and everything, but there's also, like, places where you could just stop playing with the actual mission, just be a cat. So, like, you could knock basketballs over and you can knock vases over and stuff.

Speaker B: Oh, I've knocked everything over. I've just gone everywhere. I can knock anything over and just knocked it over just because I can.

Speaker A: I love that. What. How's, um, do. Do you think they're ever gonna come out with an Oculus version just so you can actually be a cat?

Speaker B: Oh, I hope so. Can you imagine, like, you know, lift the controller up to head level to lick your paw?

Speaker A: That would be. Honestly, I'm surprised no one has done that yet.

Speaker B: It'll happen soon.

Speaker A: Give it time. Oh, yeah, but, um, yeah, uh, being

Speaker B: able to explore an open map as a cat, I think is one of the greatest advances in modern science.

Speaker A: I agree. Yeah. Definitely the right, um, direction to put all of mankind's ingenuity in. Yeah.

Speaker B: Because why not? What else are you going to do, like, cure shit? We can be a cat.

Speaker A: Nuclear fusion. Who gives a crap?

Speaker B: Meow.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Or fusion to power the servers on which. Or a cat.

Speaker A: So. Exactly.

Speaker B: Right. So this is. Now the game is not a purely open world game. It's a very large, explorable world. But there's still, like, game mechanics that you will have to, like, you know, adhere to. Um, so not truly open world. Um, so it's not a metaverse per se, which is our segue into today's. Today's topic. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, um, again, not an open. Not open universe. Um, you get to roam. There's not that much customization, it's not that much personalization. But people have been, you know, spending hours and hours and hours finding just like the side quests in this game and, uh, the side games. Like, I don't want to ruin the game for anybody, but, um, so it's all about like, finding clues and there's like a robot that hangs out with you as well. Um, yeah. So it's like imagine if, like, Luke Skywalker was a cat and R2D2 was kind of helping him get along because. Kind of thing.

Speaker A: It's a good way to put it.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's really good. So this again, we're bringing to the topic of the metaverse again. Now, I think a metaverse, there isn't one formal, kind of agreed definition, but the definition most people go back to is A, open world, B, highly customizable. C, no fixed game mechanics. Um, D, ability to create game mechanics on a case by case basis, um, with like, dedicated physics but no dedicated objective.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: So we've gotten tastes of it at various points in, like, gaming and computing history. You know, there are games that are like, on the brink of being a metaverse, but not quite then games that are straight up designed to be a metaverse. But then again, you. That's when you stop using the term game. Think, um, of like, remember when GTA Vice City came out, like the first real 3D open world, and it just blew up, blew everyone's mind that this game existed. Yeah, you know, that's, that's one, um, Think of world, uh, of Warcraft. Right. Like, obviously there are game mechanics there, but you can still freely roam the worlds.

Speaker A: Yeah. That was another thing that I was going to mention. Like I've heard of a lot of. Um, so there's this one game I used to play called Arma. And then I know GTA 5, um, the right term for them is basically like role playing servers. But they're basically like. Yeah, there's no objective really. Like you, you join this like society or community and you, you decide to become a cop, for example. Um, the objective is to be just a normal cop. But you still do. Like the way you behave in the game isn't like wizards or dragons or anything out of the imagination. It's like, it's just you're, you're living a second life in that. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So. And, but, oh, there's second life. Don't forget that one. But.

Speaker A: Oh, that too.

Speaker B: Yeah. So in GTA 5 you can basically become a terrorist and then just turn off the PS5 and go home pretty much. But yeah. So this kind of like people's appetite. So earlier I was having this discussion, uh, with somebody who's currently at a fund and saying long term retention rates. The way you kind of analyze your cohorts is in time period one, it's pretty high time period two, substantially lower. Three, substantially lower, but a little less so than two. And then at some point you kind of normalize out to a point where you're only losing like 0.1% of your cohort anyone given time. Maybe up and down a little bit here and there. That's what it looks like. Usually across tech.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, it's the standard. It's what you get when you have, when you know you have a functional like consumer product or B2B product or whatever it is in a game. I'm talking about a one off game, that line always intersects the x axis at some point, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Typically a game is not something that you are invested in for extended periods of time over a very long period of time. So who's still playing Super Mario right now? Or even like, you know, the headline Call of Duty games from five, six, seven years ago? Who's still playing them? Like nothing, you know.

Speaker A: No. Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: So the franchise needs to keep rebooting to keep users engaged in a metaverse or in a game that leadens towards the metaverse. It's a little different because it's just a common place where different game mechanics can apply.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it doesn't kind of rely on the typical like SaaS workflow of just like consistently needing to add new features, add new things for there to be continued retention. Right.

Speaker B: Because what's keeping you there is the open world and not necessarily what you're being forced to play.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. So if I play like, you know, FIFA, it's. I'm stuck in the game mechanics. I can't just roam the stadium and talk to, you know, NPCs and that kind of a thing. I have to play the game.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Whereas if I'm on Roblox, I can just mess around as much as I want, meet up with my friends. It's kind of my social network. It's kind of my, you know, some people, it's their phone, they don't even talk to people, you know? Um, yeah. So that's the metaverse. Now, what was absent in the metaverse up until now? So prior to the current modern like NFT discussions, when it comes to metaverses, um, we've been able to sort of simulate real world activity, but not perfectly. So. So in economics, what you'll notice is there is no such thing as an experiment, truly. You know, because in economics, people act the way they do because they're interacting with actual scarce resources and they bear an actual cost for their decisions. So an economic experiment where I give everyone $100,000 in play money doesn't generate the real results as not the same as having people actually spend $100,000 of their money. Metaverse, we start to get a taste of that. Uh, I think there's two notable examples where human behavior is truly modeled. Well, with certain metaverse, uh, worlds minus the whole financial component. And I'll get to why that is in a second. So have you heard of Eve Online?

Speaker A: That sounds very familiar. But is it an older thing or is it new?

Speaker B: It's not that old. Took off in the last decade. So basically it's this metaverse where you're a space faring civilization and you have trade routes and open markets and unregulated finance, even more sophisticated finance, like taking positions on certain instruments over time, that kind of thing. Um, and this was used to basically finance a war where various factions were destroying their competition, taking their trade routes, taking their assets, that sort of a thing.

Speaker A: Interesting. Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, because there was a real functional in game economy with zero regulation right now, again, um, not perfectly tied to the real world because. Not a perfect analogy because there's no real money at stake. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then think of World of Warcraft. So did you know that World of Warcraft actually fairly accurately modeled a pandemic?

Speaker A: World of Warcraft did, yes. Oh, interesting. I haven't heard.

Speaker B: So there's. Yeah, yeah. So there's a. There's basically a level in World of Warcraft where, um, basically you face this character who has this ability to get your player to bleed.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Right. And the idea is your player continues to bleed unless of course, you defeat that character and then the bleeding stops.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Now this was supposed to be restricted to one particular PvP zone where combat would be allowed.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: But what happened was some, you know, bug from Blizzard side is the bleeding never stopped, even after you left the level.

Speaker A: Oh.

Speaker B: And if, uh, if the bleeding ever touched anybody else, they too would start doing the same thing.

Speaker A: So touched as in like, if you're. If your character just briefly like went by or interacted with another character.

Speaker B: Right, yes. So if you splattered somebody with blood, they immediately started bleeding as well.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And you, you can imagine the pandemic, like physics that took part then.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So what happened was an end stage pandemic on Blizzard servers in multiple worlds where people kept. Were bleeding and then heading out to other parts of the open world and infecting people there. And they infected more people and they affected even more people. And uh, what happened was a couple days in, you had the entire thing just like be full of corpses.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Of course, Blizzard could counteract that because they control the servers and they can just go rewind to a particular time, which is what they did.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But that event is actually relevant in epidemiology today.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: So, okay, that. And there is actual epidemiologist, I believe, at Duke University, who went into epidemiology purely because he was actually a World of Warcraft player when that happened. And it just captured his imagination.

Speaker A: Right, interesting.

Speaker B: So, yeah, so here's the thing. Metaverses can model human behavior, human interactions, and the rest of it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But we've never had real money changing hands and being relevant outside of the metaverse. In other words, we want to get there to be a real economic experiment with real cost, real losses, real gains.

Speaker A: So by that do you mean you want whatever economic system that exists in that metaverse to be tied to the real life economy? Basically, yeah.

Speaker B: In other words, if you're doing really well in a game, you can actually sell the money or go to foreign exchange and get US dollars for your whatever.

Speaker A: I think we've seen a very, very early iteration of it, um, with 07 scape old runescape, um, where people used to. Basically this wasn't really a true economy economy, but it was basically like bets and wagers for fights. Um, so you'd put up some amount of money, um, and then you'd fight. And then if you win, you just take however much, um, your opponent put up. And I do remember having a lot of conversations with friends in high school where it was basically like, oh, um, like a thousand coins in game is a dollar in real life. And they've racked up billions and millions and have actually created a little weird market of accounts. And you can just trade accounts and switch accounts and people set up shop and basically went, oh, uh, if you give me your account that has this much coins, I'll fight and I'll ensure or I'll guarantee that I'll give it back to you if you basically, uh, what was it? It's like, I'll give it back to you with this much coins, but then you have to give me a cut of it or something like, um. That was the closest kind of brush that I've had with something in game. Actually having real life economic ties.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's one way to think of it. So here's the thing. Why have these brands not engaged in the metaverse for all this time? Why has it Gucci and Nike and the rest of them been knuckles deep in the universe as they have. Sorry, knuckles deep in the metaverse as they have been in the last couple months? Because part of their. Well, uh, a good chunk of their business plan is built around the concept of artificial scarcity. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And if I can just copy paste a Gucci sweater 10,000 times over in Roblox, who cares?

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So now that we have a certain, you know, um, uh, uneditable, um, kind of unique digital item, thanks to the blockchain, it makes sense for them to begin to interact. And then you can tie the metaverse item with a real world item. In other words, if I buy a Gucci sweater at the store, they can then transfer it to my wallet, and then my player in the metaverse can wear it.

Speaker A: Right, Right, right.

Speaker B: And then you have purely digital items, which is, you know, I'm a flight sim guy and I can buy a 747 and when I'm tired of it, my money isn't just gone, I can sell it secondhand to somebody else.

Speaker A: Right, exactly.

Speaker B: So you start having these in game real world economies. Uh, a tangential discussion would be, are people playing the game only for the money? Because then you have implosions like Axie Infinity and some of the other ones

Speaker A: I think, um, are people. Not to cut you off. But there was another discussion that was held Also of, um, one of the amazing things that you can do with computers nowadays is copy and pasting and just rapid duplication with very, very minimal energy or resources. Um, and that of course doesn't work with any economic model we have running in real life. Um, there was a couple of people, I think it was surprisingly, um, Keanu Reeves, if I remember this correctly, um, who basically was asked about NFTs and he was like, it's creating an illusion of scarcity, um, which is why he doesn't want to get into it and all that type of stuff. And that kind of spurred a lot of conversations on my timeline about, um, if you buy a Gucci sweater in real life, that's awesome because not a lot of people can afford it and that's the one thing you have. But is that something that people want to take into a metaverse where you can literally go, everyone gets this one thing?

Speaker B: Well, consider this. Say you're playing a game, right? And there are a Web two game open world where there are certain playable characters that are very rare. So it's a status symbol to own one.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And if you want one, you either have to play a billion hours to get enough credits to buy it or buy it cash outright. Now in the cash outright example, that money goes directly to the actual developers, whoever's running the servers.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And you don't actually own the item despite having parted with a good chunk of your own money.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: But suppose you own it and then you could move it to an off game marketplace and rent it out to people and earn some money on it, or sell it, uh, depending on market demand and what happens there. It does introduce elements of scarcity to the digital world. And you can have what's called a phygital asset, a physical and digital asset, where it's a bit of both.

Speaker A: Interesting. Okay.

Speaker B: In which case the physical aspect is a little more easy to. It's uh, a little easier to verify it as genuine if you have the NFT with it and you can check which wallets it's been transferred to and therefore physical ownership as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Right.

Speaker B: Like if I got it directly from Gucci's known wallet, then you know it's mine.

Speaker A: Right? Exactly.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um,

Speaker A: I think before we continue this, the one thing that I think we need to. The major assumption that we need to make or the kind of foundation that we need to clarify is when people say that, okay, you buy a sweater in real life and there's an NFT that's tied to that sweater and that's yours? Um, what does that actually mean? Because most of the discussions I've had with NFTs is like, oh, monkey JPEGs. You own a monkey JPEG. Someone copied pasted it. Don't get salty like that type of discussion. So, like, what does what like monkey jpegs. And physical items aside, like, what is an NFT itself?

Speaker B: Okay, just one point to your monkey JPEG thing. You can copy paste my image of it. If. If that monkey JPEG was a playable character in an open world, you can't copy paste that.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: Okay, so an NFT is a non fungible token, Right? So let's rewind a bit and ask what is a fungible token? So the dollar bill in your pocket doesn't buy any more or less items in the real world than the dollar bill in my pocket or the dollar bill in anybody else's pocket.

Speaker A: Right? Right.

Speaker B: M. That is a fungible dollar bill.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Now let's talk about exceptions to fungibility as opposed to outright non fungibility. Suppose those dollar bills are stolen and a number of bills marked sequentially are now blacklisted, so it becomes difficult to deposit them in a bank. So now technically, you've broken the fungibility of the dollar bill because it has a serial number that is tied to theft. Right. If you steal Bitcoin from an exchange because you broke their security, and you transfer that Bitcoin to an external wallet, that wallet has the same problem as the dollar bill. That wallet number is now poison because people know it's tied to theft, which means they can screen for it when you're trying to transact online. So if there's a central repository of known addresses that are problematic, it's a little difficult to spend the bitcoin. Okay, so those are exceptions to fungibility. What is outright non fungibility? Outright non fungibility would be, remember cryptokitties, which was really maybe the first example of this?

Speaker A: Yeah, it popped up on Twitter a couple of times.

Speaker B: So if you're 700 years old, like me in tech years, you may remember the 1990s when you kind of woke up in the middle of the night to feed your Tamagotchi.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: And your Tamagotchi was non fungible because you had that particular Tamagotchi and it was in your physical pocket. Cryptokitties is really the digital equivalent where the non fungibility of that cryptokitty is its signature on the blockchain, its index on the blockchain. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So cryptokitties, each one is unique in its Own way similar to some of these profile pics. Uh, they can be bred to create a new one. And the new one in and of itself is also unique. So that is a non fungible token. It is any item, whether it's a profile picture or uh, um, a player in a game or a digital item that a player can wear, um, or even a contract. Um, it could represent an individual stock or a bond or some other uh, security, um, that is identifiable with a particular number. Uh, similar to the numbers issued on each bond. Each individual traded bond has its own number registered with the Treasury. Um, all of those items can be represented in cyberspace as non fungible tokens.

Speaker A: Okay, got it. Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's those items that are going to be relevant in uh, a metaverse. And now that that is no longer a weird futuristic concept, thanks to everyone's uh, infatuation with using NFTs as profile pictures.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You have these digital items that can't be copy pasted, right? You can copy paste my profile picture, sure. But if we're in an open metaverse where I have an F22 Raptor that I used to fly around the place, you can't copy paste that. You're going to have to acquire it or buy it from me or something.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Meaning now we have in game economies, right?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And not experiment because there's scarcity, right?

Speaker A: Yeah. And a real life equivalent of that would be um, like uh, I can have the Mona Lisa hanging behind me. But you know sure as shit that that's not a the Mona Lisa, it's just a forgery or something like that where the art equivalent of copying and pasting art, but we all know where

Speaker B: the real one is, right? Except in the digital world it's a little easier knowing that it's real, right?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So if Monet was known, was alive today and known to have a particular eth address and he minted some of his purely digital work on that address and then you send me something that looks like a Monet, I can tell whether it's a Monet or not because I can tie it to his original address. I can look on the blockchain and see how this NFT has actually changed hands and how at one point it was minted by Monet with his known address and it's like, oh, it's real.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Get it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think the metaverse is. Some of the discussions feel super early.

Speaker A: Right. Interesting. How so?

Speaker B: Well, how many people are actually using Sandbox or Decentraland or some of these ETH based metaverses.

Speaker A: True. You don't hear much of that. What was actually kind of surprising is I think it's safe to say, or to assume that we're kind of heading into a crypto winter right now. And one of the first things to fall in terms of hype was NFTs and any aspect or idea of a metaverse. So I haven't heard, heard much of those.

Speaker B: You still have substantial volume being traded and a lot of securitization going on. So it's definitely not debt. I mean, it's come down a bit, but it's not like it's down 90%.

Speaker A: That's not it.

Speaker B: So on the crypto native metaverses like Sandbox and Decentraland, uh, and some of the other guys, what I've noticed is it's kind of not super active.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So I think at most I don't have the numbers in front of me, and I may be overly generous here, but weekly active users aren't north of 50,000.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So that's really nothing.

Speaker A: Right. Makes sense.

Speaker B: But I'm going to give you a couple of numbers that are going to blow your mind in terms of potential and how far things have come along.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: How big do you think the wearable NFTs market is in 2022?

Speaker A: Wearable NFTs?

Speaker B: Yeah, dollar figure. How big do you think it is if we annualize the first six months?

Speaker A: Interesting. I, uh, want to say like 100

Speaker B: mil, maybe roughly about a billion.

Speaker A: Wow. And that's only billion dollars.

Speaker B: Right. How much money do you think is made by selling custom skins in Metaverse games like Fortnite?

Speaker A: Interesting. So I know that that's a big market and see us go, because I was a part of it growing up in high school, like in high school. But Fortnite's definitely a bigger game.

Speaker B: So across all of these Metaverse games where skins can be sold, how much do you think they're doing in sales in a year?

Speaker A: I want to say maybe 500, 600 mil.

Speaker B: The number blew my mind and I checked it twice before we came on here. It's $40 billion.

Speaker A: 40 billion.

Speaker B: It's $40 billion.

Speaker A: That's across small countries. Economy, basically.

Speaker B: The video game economy, uh, by the way, is larger than professional sports, music, live concerts and movies combined.

Speaker A: That's hard to wrap my head around. That's pretty crazy.

Speaker B: What percentage of Apple's App Store revenue, uh, comes from gaming, uh, related purchases?

Speaker A: Oh, App Store. I remember we had an episode where we talked about how big of A monopoly. The App Store is. I'd round it up to five, Bill, maybe five billion.

Speaker B: But what percentage of the App Store's revenue comes from things like microtransactions and personalization and stuff in games?

Speaker A: Uh, let's throw a number out there and say 50.

Speaker B: 50%? Yeah, it's around 67%. It's about 2 thirds.

Speaker A: Wow. Okay. Yeah, two thirds. Interesting.

Speaker B: Right? So remember how I said Decentraland and Sandbox barely have people playing them?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Now, how many people do you think are in VR based gaming and only Oculus?

Speaker A: VR based gaming only? Well, Oculus is a leader, of course, so I want to say, like it is. So this is the one thing that's interesting about Oculus because, uh, it's. It's from what I've seen through ads, it's making its way outside of gaming, too, because a lot of the ads that you see on Oculus nowadays are about working out or about, like, learning about something, doing that type of stuff.

Speaker B: So all of these in the Metaverse.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I want to say, like, not a billion, not 500 million. Like 100 mil would be my best guess.

Speaker B: There's about 11 million people on Oculus.

Speaker A: 11 mil. That's not bad at all, too.

Speaker B: And there's. And there's. It's growing very fast. And there's a lot more on other non Oculus systems, including HTML PC Vive and Steam and the rest of them.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I'm talking about just Oculus, the base entry level. Right.

Speaker A: Interesting. All right.

Speaker B: And this one's going to blow your mind. So, uh, again, Sandbox, Decentraland, hardly used.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: Have you heard of Zepeto?

Speaker A: On my timeline, but I haven't looked into it too much now.

Speaker B: So Zepeto is a very kind of East Asia focused, um, uh, East Asia focused metaverse.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Okay, so Zepeto has approximate. Actually, you know what? I like this number thing. Throw me a number. How many people in Zepeto? Zepeto not monthly active. I'm talking about registered users and the Zepeto metaverse.

Speaker A: Okay, so Zepeto, if it serves East Asia, East Asia is very big market. Um, so like, 5 million.

Speaker B: It's around, um, like a quarter of the population of China. It's 300 million. It's 290 million users.

Speaker A: Jesus Christ.

Speaker B: And how many of them do you think are monthly active?

Speaker A: Well, 300 mil, I think, ideally maybe is like half of them. So maybe 150, 200.

Speaker B: Um, it's more around 20 million. They're monthly active in the Metaverse. Wow. Right. Okay, so MAU is the core metric for people like Facebook. So they're competing with social networks, and they're killing social networks. And then another one. So Asian emerging markets are very, very into this. And who do you think the user base is? Who do you think? About 50%? Um, actually, approximately. I think 60. I'm not 100% sure. This number, I think it's around 60% of the user base is young. I think that was given.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Also female.

Speaker A: Interesting. So are they like sausage? Yeah, I would think so, too, because it's just because of, like, the culture around that type of stuff here. Right. Um, interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah. So there's broad relevance in that market in personalized virtual spaces and personalized, uh. Branding.

Speaker A: Right, branding. Okay.

Speaker B: So all of these brands suddenly want to get in on the metaverse, because that's where everyone is.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: Right. And it's just beginning. And these are the numbers they're putting up. Imagine trying to launch any app where one quarter of China is signed on.

Speaker A: That just, like, from the engineering perspective, that makes me nervous as hell. But I see it.

Speaker B: This is the Metaverse, and the Metaverse is going to get way, way more offensive. Uh, sorry, no, the Metaverse is going to get way more immersive, um, with virtual reality. So I spend a lot of time, you know, in virtual reality, flying my jet fighter and bombing things, Right?

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: So I've gotten to the point where, like, if I'm casually going out with, you know, uh, a friend who happens to own a Cessna, and then, like, he has a heart attack, I'm. I'm fairly okay landing it. This is how delusional I've gotten, thanks to Meta. Metaverse immersion. I have put hours in that thing, Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now that brands are interested, they're looking at catalogs of items. Because in E commerce, when Metaverse meets E commerce, anything and everything you do in E commerce is built around the catalog. How many items do you have? Um, how many varieties of it and how much information do you have on it? What are your photos? Like, how immersive is it? That kind of thing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So no catalog, no E commerce.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Imagine what would happen to Amazon sales if it no longer had pictures.

Speaker A: Oh, those would tank. Because I think pictures are definitely a very, very big part of it. But even the one thing that I'd add as well is, um, um, basically the depth or the ingenuity behind designing the catalog. I feel like there should be basically a field of research into designing catalogs. Because what's very interesting on platforms like Amazon is like, uh, if I look up screwdrivers, there are specific search filters that pop up about what type of screw you want and, like, how many inches and all that type of stuff. So, uh, it's pretty impressive. Like, catalog building is a core of E commerce for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, when I ask my friends for a screwdriver here, they just give me an orange juice that tastes funny. So clearly they're not very familiar with catalogs.

Speaker A: No, not at all. Like, the E commerce hasn't reached quite as much as other things have. Yeah,

Speaker B: wink, wink. Anyways, so there's. There's nothing more personal. There's nothing more personal than a user's own face and body when they're trying on digital wardrobes in the metaverse.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: But that's still not absolutely totally photorealistic lifelike just yet. Especially not with standalone headsets.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Like, you need a really good graphics card to physically, uh, build you and make it wear clothes. Right?

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker B: But as far as the metaverse goes, augmented reality is a bit of a stepping stone for a lot of people, especially when it comes to physical and digital items. When you can buy a physical item and also have the digital item that your person can wear. And there is a company that's actually made massive, massive strides in getting people to adopt augmented reality. And most people don't even realize it's augmented reality. You know what company that is, right?

Speaker A: Augmented reality. I haven't heard of big strides in that area in some time. Actually.

Speaker B: No, there is one large publicly traded, uh, brand that has a lot of people hooked on ar. And again, they don't even think about it as ar.

Speaker A: Interesting. So when you say ar, do you mean, like, do filters count? Like face filters and that type of stuff?

Speaker B: Warmer.

Speaker A: It's like Instagram, Snapchat. Are the two that come.

Speaker B: Snapchat.

Speaker A: Snapchat. Interesting.

Speaker B: Okay, right, so how many users do you have on Snapchat? It's around 300 million, right?

Speaker A: Tons. Yeah.

Speaker B: And the ones who use it are using AR basically daily. You know, how many times per day?

Speaker A: Quite. Like, I'm trying to remember my friends, they, yeah, they send quite a couple of snaps. And I'm sure like 70% of them have filters on, so. Quite a bit.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right. I'm just making you look bad by not being able to guess very, very specific numbers. It's around 6 billion times a day. So every time everyone uses some dumb, stupid little fucking filter, right? I mean, Crying Face has been used 1.3 billion times a day.

Speaker A: Just. Oh my God.

Speaker B: Sorry. Not well, actually, no, that specific filter has been used 1.3 billion times. Can you imagine? Now imagine the data that creates for Snapchat and how well they can train their algorithms. Like you know what they call their meshes? Basically this wireframe of your body that they can fit the clothes over.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So these lenses are used to create 3D images of your face and your body. And these meshes become so precise that they can accurately map all kinds of clothing with all kinds of textures and accommodate any kind of body type doing all kinds of different poses.

Speaker A: Interesting. Right? Okay.

Speaker B: And now you can go on Snapchat and you can try things on. Right. True things from actual brands.

Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: So you can stand in front of your um, bathroom mirror and try on your um, bikini print, uh, leopard print bikini. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, no, there's another one. I think, um, Cartier actually got, got into this game of if you show your wrist, you can try on some of their watches.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Which is actually pretty impressive. Like, yeah, like out of all places. Like I understand the whole mesh building on face filters, but detecting a wrist is actually pretty impressive.

Speaker B: Yeah. And now if there's an app called Wanna Kicks where um, I've tried that out.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can, you can

Speaker B: try shoes on and buy them that way.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: So this has solved the issue back in the 90s and said nobody's going to buy stuff online. You can't try it on. Well now you can try it on.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And the meshes will make the fit pretty realistic. So in the past 12 months, Snapchat, their 300 million users have tried on digital items, everything from sunglasses to dresses, around 5 billion times. So it's changing consumer behavior, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And some of the core issues in E commerce right now are like cart abandonment.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I think that, well that would be the issue. And most of the time people abandon carts because they're afraid returns would be a hassle or they're not totally sure how something's going to look or fit or the rest of it.

Speaker A: Right, yeah. One thing, it's actually surprising seeing that because to put the founder hat on a little bit, I was doing a deep dive into metrics and that type of stuff. And uh, for E commerce applications, one popular metric is just how much value has been left in an abandoned cart,

Speaker B: which is a lot.

Speaker A: That is a ton.

Speaker B: I think it's around 70, uh, percent the number of E commerce carts that wind up abandoned.

Speaker A: Right

Speaker B: now going back to Snapchat, and how they've gotten everybody hooked on augmented reality. Suppose I try on, uh, some aviator shades on an AR app and I buy them. Now, I'm going to get the physical item in the mail, but I'm also going to receive the NFT for the digital item, which means a ray ban can now increase in some. Sorry, they can engage in some much, uh, better enhanced, uh, consumer outreach, and they've built a community because now I have a Ray Ban nft. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Also, my Metaverse character can now throw on their aviator shades when I'm flying around in my F22.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: So this is this kind of blending of physical and digital worlds. And younger generations have already made it abundantly clear that they want to engage in the metaverse much more than generations prior, now that the metaverse is not some stupid pixelated dump, but rather this very realistic.

Speaker A: Now, I do have a question about that that's actually very interesting. So, yeah, say, for example, I'm walking around with my brand new Ray Ban sunglasses, and then, um, walking down the street, someone steals them, takes them. I can go to the police and give a description of them, but anyone can go, no, those are mine. I bought these. Or, no, I got this at a thrift store or something. So when you're working in a universe that basically verifies that everything you have is yours and there's transactions proving. So, um, yeah. Does that mean that theft in the metaverse is kind of impossible?

Speaker B: Well, theft in the metaverse would require me signing over a digital transaction, giving you the item.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker B: So kind of difficult. And in the real world, I can go to the cops and say, yo, this schmuck stole my shades. And I can prove it. He doesn't have the nft. I do. And I can prove I received it from Ray Ban.

Speaker A: That too. Yeah. Because that would be hard to forge. Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: Which, by the way, I'm glad that you brought up, uh, the fuzz law enforcement.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker B: So we're talking about all kinds of different applications for NFTs that are relevant in the E commerce and the metaverse and that kind of a thing. Right. And, uh, we've already said that's relevant because people are paying $40 billion a year for digital items anyways without actually owning them. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. There is a market for it, for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. So what else can you do with NFTs that aren't just that? So the way I see it is NFTs are going to replace paper. And by paper, I mean offline agreements. I think eventually all kinds of intellectual property will be secured by NFTs. They get minted by whoever produced them. Right. So if I have a record label and I sign some new artist, this artist produces music, the music can be secured with NFTs.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. The actual track and the rights and the rest of it. So I have an undisputable record, that it is mine.

Speaker A: Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you can create copies of NFTs and number them individually. Uh, you know exactly who played which one because there would be digital signatures on each one.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: And think of the contract that I had with the artist prior to them recording, uh, their album.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: That contract can also be on the blockchain. The text of the contract is secured on the blockchain and it is signed. Instead of squiggles and ink, which anyone can fake, they can sign it with their actual wallet that's unique to them.

Speaker A: True. Right.

Speaker B: Now suppose there's a dispute and we want the contract amended. How do we then go and change it? Well, you can have a multi sig contract where the third signatory would basically be a local court. And in order for anything to be changed, all three need to digitally sign as well. So if an offline activity such as a legal challenge in a court produces a court order that uh, uh, a contract will be trashed or amended or re signed or whatever it may be, um, then the court may be in possession of a wallet of their own that allows them to be the final signatory on these kinds of things.

Speaker A: Right. So it's kind of like.

Speaker B: And there's no paper.

Speaker A: Yeah. If it is a transaction, it serves as escrow, if that makes any sense. Kind of. That's how I'm able to make sense of it at least.

Speaker B: Well, escrow requires the trust of a third party. We're talking about dispute resolution where we just need a person to vote, Right?

Speaker A: Oh, right.

Speaker B: And in terms of escrow, again, for the artist to be paid, there could be an escrow contract on the blockchain, um, that stipulates that, hey, you'll get paid as soon as we get X number of listens on this record. And this record is secured by an nft. And now we know exactly how many lessons we got because it's the number of people who've actually, um, activated, um, whatever part of the contract that allows you to play the song.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So there's real world monitoring of these kinds of things and real world enforcement of contracts. And eventually the record label itself can, instead of doing a Delaware C corp, can be a dao true.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's the one thing I realized is, um, when the NFT craze first started popping up, it was the music industry. And a lot of startups that came up as well were just very, very fixated on the music industry. Just because, whether it's like Scooter Braun and Taylor Swift or any other issue with management basically screwing, uh, artists over, um, it was always something that NFTs could have solved or having a direct transaction or proof of that transaction solved.

Speaker B: Yeah, the whole uh, Kesha and Dr. Whatever his face was solved a little easier. You're thinking anything that exists in the real world is a one of one or a one of a limited series object. Literally everything from a sweater to a contract to a legal agreement to uh, a, uh, business entity, to a linked LP to whatever it may be. We can just completely forget the paperwork and move this entirely digitally. Now, aside from getting rid of the paperwork, one thing that it gets people to do is agree to a universal format of an agreement. Imagine I want to buy a house in California. That process is extremely different from the purchase of a house in, say, Spain. Suppose I want to buy a micro fragment of a house in California. Suppose I want to spread my assets by paying for half, say $50,000 worth of an apartment building in California and $50,000 worth of apartment building in New York City today. There is no real way to do that without going through all kinds of paperwork, the cost of which will exceed my investment. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But if every one of those buildings was a DAO or was an asset that was secured IP wise, ownership wise was, uh, an NFT that was recognized by the city as proof of ownership, recognized by all governments as proof of ownership that then can be used to issue synthetic tokens against, so that 100 unit apartment building in Brooklyn, uh, the NFT that proves its ownership is secured on a protocol that then issues a million synthetic tokens against it, and the ownership is fractionalized and I could buy as little as a couple bucks worth true assets.

Speaker A: It uh, basically democratizes or just makes available or accessible investments in things like real estate and that type of stuff.

Speaker B: Well, it's hyper fractionalized, hyper secure ownership with extremely low transaction costs, even for the most illiquid assets, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And on top of that, it's a unified legal agreement that everyone agrees to no matter where you are in the world.

Speaker A: Uh-huh, exactly.

Speaker B: So the transfer of $100,000 worth of so and so building in New York City from me in Kuwait to you in Los Angeles is just a smart contracts execution where you send me US dollar coin and I send you the tokens for the ownership and that's it, we're done.

Speaker A: As opposed to all the paperwork and the pain that needs to happen today,

Speaker B: as opposed to needing lawyers and weeks and months to do it.

Speaker A: Right. Yeah. So it makes it seamless, seemingly seamless

Speaker B: and trustless because it's happening on blockchain. The blockchain contract is going to execute the transfer. You can't, you can't take the shares and run away.

Speaker A: Exactly, yeah. Because I definitely see that, uh, escrow

Speaker B: accounts that release them once we've both paid.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I definitely see the benefit of that in real estate. The benefit of that and pretty much anything like music, entertainment. Um, generally speaking, if you want to buy tickets to something, um, you want to make sure the tickets are not forged, that type of stuff, having any ownership of anything. Yeah. But there is, there is a very interesting thing that brings it up because, you know, obviously I work in govtech and you know, putting govtech's prejudice against any web3 technology aside, there's a lot of instances where, you know, the. I think the easiest thing to point out is voting, where there's a lot of speculation about forged votes, fake votes, votes coming from dead people, um, that type of stuff that can honestly be fixed. If you, you know, say, for example, that the city government has, um, you know, a contract or a ballot and there's a valid, verifiable transaction, um, of that ballot from one wallet to another and then that transaction returns with a stance on it or with some, some vote taken on it. Um, if you have that, that would be very hard to forge as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. So if the city issues you a specific, um, nft and you vote by sending that NFT to one of two addresses for each candidate or whatever. If you want to send it to Trump, uh, eth, or Obama. Uh, eth.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: And you end up with a final tally instead of waiting God knows how long for the Supreme Court to rule and overturn everything.

Speaker A: True. So

Speaker B: it's just we do away with the issue of trust in middlemen, which is, I think, something that can be applied very, very broadly to all kinds of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I see that. Because I think a lot of the issues where deals have fallen through have been because of middlemen. Um, the biggest example of which, uh, it's actually pretty funny. So I'm going to preface this by saying everything is alleged because there is a lawsuit that came out because of it. But, um, this kind of falls into the bucket or container of entertainment where Freddie, uh, Freeman. So Freddie Freeman, basically for anyone who doesn't know, was a player on the Atlanta Braves. Uh, baseball player at the Atlanta Braves, spent, um, the first 13 years of his career there. And then on the 13th year he won the World Series and I think he was the MVP as well. Um, so very, very big player, massive reputation, uh, Atlanta Braves, um, household name. And when his contract was up, there was a lot of speculation about where he was going to go. And to the fans, from the fans perspective, it kind of seemed like the Braves moved on because they immediately just signed someone else who played in Freddie's position. And Freddy was like basically heartbroken, shocked, and then ended up taking a deal with the Dodgers. Um, so when the Dodgers visited Atlanta this season, I, uh, think a month ago or like a couple of weeks ago actually, uh, it came out that allegedly, of course, nothing, none of this is true. Um, yeah, but, um, uh, what's it called? So the Atlanta Braves actually extended an offer to Freddie, but his agent, um, basically didn't tell Freddie about that deal. So Freddie never knew that Atlanta wanted him. And like, I think what would have happened is either that deal was ignored or it was rejected by the agent on behalf of Eddie, of Freddie. And uh, yeah, so when he heard out, heard about that, like all sorts of legal stuff came up. But that's another instance where like middlemen, you know, as much of a reputation as you can build with them sometimes do screw things over for you.

Speaker B: First of all, I don't know how the hell that was legal or if it was legal, because even in real estate, for example, if your realtor gets an offer for a property that you've listed with them legally, they have to tell you what the offer is. No matter how crap or great it is, they have to share the offer legally. Um, how the hell his agent got away with that crap, I have no idea. And I don't know, I'm not sure.

Speaker A: Yeah, all I know is Freddie, um, basically reached out to the media and said he's self represented now and he's trying to figure out stuff with his agency. Not sure what the outcome of that's going to be, but in terms of baseball drama, this is definitely the biggest story.

Speaker B: To your point, I think a judge very recently somewhere, um, actually ruled that airdropping somebody, a court summons counts as notification. So you can serve them by airdropping an NFT that says the court says you have to show up.

Speaker A: Interesting. Seriously, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. So all kinds of insider Traders from Coinbase now about to get NFTs. Let's say, hey, second district or wherever says you're fucked.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's interesting. Oh, uh, man, can you imagine then any, anything is going to airdrop everything.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: I mean airdrop my birthday party. Invites are going to be airdropped to everybody.

Speaker A: Yeah, basically birthday parties. Or like even if it's, if it's like a invite only event where you need to RSVP just airdrop to everyone around you.

Speaker B: Um, well that's being done already.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But another big thing as well, um, listening parties. So I know a lot of celebrities hold those. So like imagine if you go to one area that's unknown, uh, and then you just airdrop everyone. The album that everyone's going to be listening to.

Speaker B: Well, I mean you would need their addresses.

Speaker A: Oh, that too. Yeah.

Speaker B: As opposed to the Apple product definition of airdrop. But

Speaker A: true.

Speaker B: Yeah, but most people, here's the thing, I think a lot of people who are in the space have a number of addresses, right. So I have my Azizhayat eth, which a lot of people have used to airdrop me. Random shit. And again, this is public stuff, so you can go look at it. You can just go put my actual ETH address in any uh, uh, chain explorer, like blockchain and see everything I own. Um, but that's my public address. Um, I have a private address, the address of which I don't share, which I keep a lot of other stuff at.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: I think that's the way most people are doing it because again, this is your bank account, but I can Google your balance.

Speaker A: Yeah, which is interesting because I mean, I think transparency and that's all great and stuff, but then that does have its boundaries, but I mean that's where private, private addresses kind of come in. Yeah, I mean, I think, because I think what's interesting and just putting on like the Silicon Valley hat is imagine, okay, like you get a kid and then you need to give your kid a citizenship and then like a Social Security number and then a wallet, like a private address, basically. Yeah, that would be, that would be pretty crazy if it actually happened.

Speaker B: Or imagine passports start, like digital passports start getting issued as NFTs where they know it's not fake because the only way to know that it was a fake is if they look at the transaction history and see that it did not come from so and so wallet, uh, associated with the United States Department of State.

Speaker A: Right, exactly.

Speaker B: So, uh, if the Department of State has a known wallet from which Addresses are issued or passports are issued, they can send you your NFT passport.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And then no matter what anyone tries, how are they going to fake it? The only way to fake it would be to break into the State Department and issue fake passports.

Speaker A: Exactly. Which is super, super difficult to do.

Speaker B: Right. So, yeah, that's your passport, nft, your credit card, nft, your driver's license, nft.

Speaker A: I think the one thing that definitely needs to end up happening to NFTs is the same thing that happened to nuclear fusion, which was basically like, it's going to have to go through, uh, some sort of rebranding. Because when you hear NFTs or when you go to a networking event and you mention NFTs, you see people's eyes kind of glaze over and it's like, oh, boy, we're going to talk about bored apes. We're going to talk about Those images, those JPEGs, whatever they may be. But if you rephrase or rebrand NFTs to Lord knows whatever it may be, and then just resell the technology as this isn't something for some random tech bros or crypto dudes or whatever the hell, this is a general lifestyle thing that you can sell, um, I think it would get pretty far is what I'd say. I have spoken to a founder before, um, who was basically in the Web three space building something where, um, artists can have their own equivalent of a Shopify, where they could sell, um, their own NFTs and kind of send them to people's wallets as they're being purchased and that type of stuff. Um, and the one thing he said that is potentially going to give him a advantage is he's not selling the blockchain or any of the Web3 technologies. He is using that, but that's working in the background. What he's selling is the benefits of it repackaged for the everyday person to understand.

Speaker B: Here's the thing. Netflix would be impossible without aws, Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Right.

Speaker B: But nobody's like, Netflix does not advertise itself as being on aws, because people don't give a shit. They just want it to work.

Speaker A: True. Right.

Speaker B: At some point that's gonna happen on Web3 when we stop selling something as a Web3 item. It's just digital. And by the way, there's Web3 in the background powering this.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: And that's when everyone will have it. In the same way that Snapchat got everyone to use lenses and AR without ever calling it ar.

Speaker A: Right, Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: But just branded as Lenses.

Speaker A: Exactly. They just called it, like sooner or

Speaker B: later, like, you know, you're going to find ads at your local, like, post office saying like, get your BC passport right now. What does BC mean? Blockchain. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I think eventually once that happens, and then once the management of wallets and the creation of wallets becomes a little bit easier, more streamlined, those would be the two key factors for mass adoption. Not only in specific metaverses or in any sort of Web3 specific application, but just general life. Driver's license, passports, credit cards. Basically what you mentioned. Right.

Speaker B: When it becomes as spectacular and amazing as a database.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Just a, uh, thing.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's a very nice future to be a part of. Honestly, if anything you have, you have proof that is yours. Theft wouldn't be that bad. If your Social Security number is an NFT and then someone tries to use that to put up your house for sale or do whatever in your name, it's like, well, that came from a wallet that's different than the one that, that SSN was issued to.

Speaker B: And also they can't sign the transaction.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because they can steal a Social Security number, but they can't steal my, um, private key. Meaning they can't sign the transaction to actually do the transfer.

Speaker A: Exactly. I'm sure this is just a hunch of mine, but I'm sure somewhere in DARPA there is research being done on this because there's no way this tech is being overseen.

Speaker B: Oh. I mean, I would pay a lot of money just to get like a one hour tour of darpa, see what the hell they're doing.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's like Iron Mask.

Speaker B: Uh, if anyone from DARPA is listening, because like, I mean, we have, we have our analytics and we do know that a lot of people in Virginia listen. Virginia, dc. So yeah, if anyone from DARPA is listening, actually check the metrics. This doesn't say Langley or just Alexandria and some of the places but Roanoke,

Speaker A: we do have Vermont. That is pretty remote. So maybe.

Speaker B: Yeah, one guy listening in Vermont. Uh, hi, Lincoln.

Speaker A: I know who he is, so appreciate you listening.

Speaker B: Yeah. So if anyone from DARPA is listening, please like send me an email. Yeah, uh, I really, really want to tour.

Speaker A: We'll do a tour. We'll promise not to tell anyone. We're going to walk out of there

Speaker B: like, it's like Chuck E. Cheese. Like, cool.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's like. No. What was it? There was one guy who was actually given a tour and he was basically like, what did he say? He's like, this is this is Iron man level stuff that's being worked on in there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's fun.

Speaker A: Good times.

Speaker B: The thing is, like, they probably think because they're around it all day, every day, it's probably not even that cool to them.

Speaker A: Oh, true.

Speaker B: You know what I mean? It's like, uh, oh, the alien is complaining again. Shut it up.

Speaker A: Why is it talking about, like, villages and shit? Just shut up. Whatever.

Speaker B: It's like, man, we should have killed him at Roswell.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: Should have stomped him out when he was on the ground, right? I have to deal with this margin babble.

Speaker A: Uh, anyways, anyways, what's the rest of your day look like?

Speaker B: Um, I just want to walk a little.

Speaker A: Honestly, I feel I might. I might do the same. Go for a quick walk and then get back and put out countless, countless

Speaker B: numbers you have to put out.

Speaker A: Put out what?

Speaker B: You're going to put out.

Speaker A: Put out fires.

Speaker B: You said put out.

Speaker A: I don't know what that means.

Speaker B: That means give someone your put.

Speaker A: Well, no, definitely not that.

Speaker B: Not for free. You owe me money. All right?

Speaker A: Or equity. Or NFTs. I'll take anything.

Speaker B: Uh, anyways, okay, you can do me for eth.

Speaker A: Just like you write your wallet address on a notepad. There's, like, tears on it. It's like, uh, fine.

Speaker B: Or better yet, you have, like, a QR code transtamp.

Speaker A: Oh, man.

Speaker B: Uh, uh, I'm getting a QR code tramp stamp. All right, we should. Later, pooches.

Speaker A: See? Yeah. Sam.