VRS670 - When Hospitality Leads and Tech Follows

Speaker A: When I sold Cottage Link rental management in 2022, we were running at, uh, 85% direct bookings. That didn't happen by accident. We'd been at it for 20 years booking direct long before Airbnb was even a concept. For most property managers, though, direct booking remains one of the hardest things to build. Guests arrive through the OTAs, they stay, they leave, and you're left with almost nothing you can use to bring them back. That's the gap Today's sponsor, uh, StayFi, is designed to close, and I'll be telling you more about them later in the episode. This is the Vacation Rental Success podcast, keeping you up to date with news, views, information and resources on this rapidly changing short term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's what's not, what's new, and what will help make your business a success. Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer. And as ever, I'm super excited to, to be back with you once again. 30 years is a long time to be in any industry. Long enough to watch it go from something barely anyone heard of to a global phenomenon that has fundamentally changed the way people travel. And one of the things I love the most about being at this point in my career is that I get a front row seat to what's coming next and more specifically to to who is coming next. Because over the years a pattern has emerged that I find really exciting. New voices arrive in the industry all the time. People who bring experience from completely different worlds. I noticed this from Verma, um, last year. They walk in, they see what's happening, and then they decide they have something that they can contribute. They end up on panels, on, um, podcasts, on stages worldwide. They start sharing what they know, they ask hard questions and they're pulling the conversation forward. And they're not doing it for the title. They're doing it because they care where this industry is going. And I don't want to call them influencers because that word doesn't quite capture it. These are practitioners and thinkers who happen to be also very generous with what they've learned. And I've noticed with real pleasure that more and more of these voices belong to women. I think of people who've been on the show recently. Neelie Khan, Ella Meziborski, M. Sidi Mittal. Women who've come into this space from different backgrounds and are now shaping how we all think about it. And now I'm going to add Sabrina Mulligan to that list. I met Sab at the Scale With AI conference in Brighton where she was one of those people you watch on a panel and you think, I need to have a property conversation with her. She was on a panel that was moderated by Richard Vaughton and also had Shahar Goldblom on it. And they were talking about whether you can build things, whether you use platforms that have AI integrated into them or whether you can actually build them. And it was a great conversation, really enjoyed it. So Sab is the head of guest experience at, uh, Zing, I think. I think that's how you pronounce it. I will ask her. It's spelt Z. Z Z I N G. It's a fast growing property management company based in Malta and she brings a perspective on AI hospitality and what it actually takes to scale without losing the human side of the business. And I knew that you guys would want to hear this, so here she is. I hope you enjoy this conversation just as much as as I did. I'm so happy to have with me today Sabrina Mulligan, known as Sab. I have heard about this lady so much over the last few months and I had to have her on, particularly after seeing her talking at the Scale With AI conference in Brighton a couple of weeks ago. For those of you who listen to me regularly, you know that I am, um, passionate about bringing the women in this to the fore because there are so many fabulous women and I love to see this new generation just joining us. I was talking to Richard Vaughten yesterday, Sam. Um, and we were having this discussion about we're old now, we're about to tip off the edge. So it's good to see, it's good to see the new generation beginning that journey. So thank you so much for joining me.

Speaker B: A pleasure. And I actually, I was with Richard yesterday and I mentioned that I have this session and he told me, sam, you're doing really well. And to land a spot on her best once, it's like he triggered quite a few butterflies.

Speaker A: I said, ooh, oh, uh, he's such a sweetheart. I've known Richard for 30 years now. He was probably one of the very first people I met in this industry going back into the 90s. There was a forum called Lay My Hat and it was a UK based one and it was all these people who were just doing their own rentals and talking about it and complaining, but sharing information. And I just Bought my first properties in Canada and I found this and I was still living in England, but I was managing these properties and the people on that forum helped me out so much. Richard being one of them.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's a, he's quite a force, basically, as are you. But at the moment especially, or maybe because obviously I, I am, um, more involved deeper in the industry, there is such a nice mood basically in our space and there is so much knowledge sharing, which I love. So there is a real community feel. And I think that's so important because you know what, as the STR space when it comes to tech, we're doing really well, so we're moving really fast. So there are property managers who of course are anxious or there is a bit of fear, but even their small steps sometimes. So much more than a lot of hotel, uh, legacy brands have taken so far. So we should be proud of ourselves and also take a minute to say, yeah, we're moving forward as a collective.

Speaker A: You're absolutely right. And I've seen over three decades in this. It was so slow to start with. And you're right, everything is speeding up anyway, we're going to talk about a whole load today. But before I started recording, you were telling me that you were born in Canada. That was really surprising because I knew you're currently in Malta and you have this Maltese background, so that came as quite a surprise. So you better start that story again. Briefly, what took you from Canada back to Malta and how did you get into this industry?

Speaker B: Okay, so my parents are both Maltese. They moved to Canada, fell in love in Canada. Uh, they met basically during a holiday. They had dream kids in Canada, decided to move back to Malta for the island life, raising children, the weather. And me and my brother and sister, I was eight back then when we came to Malta. Then my youngest sister was born in Malta, So we are four children. Yeah. And I've been in Malta for 38 years now, so I'm like 100% Maltese. However, of course, there's a special place in my heart for Canada. Uh, I still have friends who I meet who are my schoolmates in Canada, so I have very fond memories. So it was incredible to connect with you as well because I feel the property.

Speaker A: We met face to face in Brighton a, uh, couple of weeks ago for the scale with, uh, our AI conference. And always, as ever, when I mentioned scale, it's got a big shout out to Damian, Damien, Sheridan, Louise Brace and everybody else that is associated with scale. They do such a fantastic job. And I know you've been to several of their conferences. What is it about them that you like?

Speaker B: Knowledge. Knowledge sharing, the community, the support, and the fact that it's not just commercial, but there is really a sense of we want to move forward and we want to move forward together. The speakers, they are thought leaders, right? Sharing panels with incredible talent from so many different parts of the world as well, and also understanding that we might not all have the same business model. Some of us have diverse portfolios, some of us have luxury portfolios, but the seven guest moments remain the same for us all. And I think our anchor is we exist because we are so passionate and, um, in love with hospitality. And I think this is a really important message because when it comes to AI and tech, there's a lot of noise. And I think where we anchor and say, let us just stay in our playground or zone of genius. And like, we are hospitality people and tech is a tool that's going to make our hospitality louder.

Speaker A: We're going to talk a lot about hospitality and tech in this discussion, but tell me, you're passionate about hospitality, but you didn't start in hospitality, so you came from all sorts of. You talk about diverse portfolio. You have a diverse portfolio?

Speaker B: Yes. Okay. So I spent a decade working in media production, producing, basically, and, um, scripting, worked for all of the major channels in Malta, uh, and also for a very small channel called Wine tv, where I had the opportunity to interview a lot of wine families. Basically, that's where I really started falling in love with storytelling and that craft. After that, I spent another decade at ICE Campus, which is one of the leading tech academies and the Mediterranean. So I had the opportunity to work with Cisco, Adobe, the Digital Marketing Institute, and really dive deeper into tech and the delivery of it. But hospitality, uh, has always been a very special place in my heart for hospitality because I love being a guest, I love traveling, so I know what a guest feels and expects. Right. And also because I love the idea of hosting. And so my goal was, how can I host? Like I have a boutique, but then still scale our local portfolio like, there's no ceiling. And I cracked the code when I said, oh, we need more tech in our formula to be able to move at the speed that we set for ourselves.

Speaker A: So when did you join? And now you're going to have to. Is it Zing? Is that how you pronounce it?

Speaker B: So I joined Zing now three and a half years ago. Very small portfolio. We had 50 properties back then. I joined as head of team over the last 36 months. As of today, we're hitting 650 keys. Yeah, the scaling, that's awesome. Incredible scaling. Very strong team, Fast growing team as well. Then last year it was a Saturday night and my guest experience team member called me yet again and said, hey Saab, I can't manage the shift. And I ended up doing an eight hour shift instead of spending time with my eight year old daughter. And I said, I've been hearing about AI for guest communications. I just need to figure it out, learn more. And I let curiosity drive me because again, although I worked for a tech academy, I am not a, uh, tech talent. And this is really important because just because I get plonked onto panels talking about AI, people might think that my mood is tech, but it's not. I think the flavor I bring and so many other hosts bring is that the art of hospitality combined with the curiosity to see how we can deliver even more of an elevated guest experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, you're absolutely right. That conjunction of tech and hospitality. And I'm seeing some companies that are going off in a direction I don't like, uh, in terms of automation and talking about you never have to talk to a guest again. And I saw that recently and it was like, this is not where we should be going. And I don't think that is a common thing, but it is. I'm just a little unhappy to see that. But this is not where you're coming from, clearly. And I'll go along with what you said about tech as well. I talk AI all the time. I've been immersed in it for nearly two years now. And yet give me two wires and try and plug them in or try and do other things that could be termed tech. And I'm totally out of the picture. So I get you, whether you don't have to be tech enabled and tech savvy to understand how AI, uh, can make us to better operators. But I've listened to a few podcasts you've done and I've heard you talk on panels. And um, let's start with talking about burnout, because that's something that you have talked about in the past, that people wear burnout, as you said, as a badge of honor. What does that mean? And what does it tell you about where the industry was and what you think could change it?

Speaker B: Burnout and busyness as well. So again, I walked into the SDR space and specifically the short term rental space. Right with this. Ooh, this is hospitality. We exist to delight guests. It's all about designing experiences. And my first show was Vacation Rental Summit also really um, great show. And I walked in and I was expecting this kind of energy but instead conversations were all like we had to meet a guest at three in the morning because the key code wasn't working and then we had to answer calls at 5 in the morning. And it's we're receiving 200 calls a day at check in time. So much friction and people. It felt like with my beginner's mind which now I realize was a bit of an advantage because it's an outside. They're looking into the industry. I'm like oh wow. It's like we're almost like flaunting our friction and flaunting our failures rather than. It's almost a competition of who answers the most calls and who is constantly their family.

Speaker A: Yeah. Who's the most stressed amongst us.

Speaker B: Yeah. But that's again with my decade working like with tech people.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's like I said, oh, how can I fix this? Right. How can we start to also as saying that we're disruptors and we want to be tech first. How can we implement tech but tech that is silent. So the hospitality is loud. So I really agree with you. I hate it when people say I don't want to speak to a guest ever again. My message in scape by was AI is giving hospitality back to humans. And I think also to link to your message about all the incredible female talent that we are surrounded with at the moment. I think slowly I started to realize when I started getting more involved in AI with our tech partners, that is where we bring a different flavor and bring something different because of the female energy, because of the host mindset, because you can recognize that 10 check in is at 3pm you can say welcome to the islands. We're so happy that you've chosen to stay with us. And so I started realizing that when it comes specifically guest communication, AI lives on brand and ah, it doesn't necessarily should just stick in the tech container. And that's how our adventure kicked off as well with this.

Speaker A: Okay. Just unwrap that as if you can. So tech lives. You say tech lives in brand.

Speaker B: AI lives in brand.

Speaker A: Yeah, AI lives in brand. So unwrap that a little bit. What does that mean?

Speaker B: Okay, so when you have an AI agent for this communication you have the luxury of being able to design your digital twin. And so again one of my pain points was as we were scaling employing individuals who, if you're employing hospitality people, they don't want to answer the same questions over and over again they feel that they deserve more. If you are employing call center people, then they're giving call center answers. And so when I realized that I can design policies so that our AI agent Zoe can mimic mirror the way I would answer across my seven moments. And I can add the friendliness, the local expertise, the flavor, the element of host. Be our guest. Right. Like Bernice kind of. I started realizing this isn't a uh, tech, yes, it's a tech tool. But the difference between one AI for guest communication and another is can you make it your own and can it align with your core values? Can it really reflect how your best in class team member would reply to a guest? Mhm. And then where AI does it better is I believe guests want quality in the reply speed and experience. They want their answers in a language that they chose. They want to add a layer of not just recommendations, but if you have a video and you're getting important, send that link, they want a reply instantly. So if you will manage to build policies where at ah, 10 in the morning, at 3 in the morning, you're still delivering the same level of quality of a reply, that's where AI starts to win. Right, because you have more control over your brand messaging.

Speaker A: Tell me more about Zoe and how did you create Zoe and where does that. What I get particularly interested in is how the human gets in the loop. How does Zoe know to pass over to a human?

Speaker B: Okay, again, just to give you a bit of context, at the Moment Zoe manages 90% of all communication across our portfolio of 650 keys. So for example, today she answered about 1,200 different messages conversations. Okay, she is zing from Zoe. Okay, so she is our AI agent and even in policies that I have designed where people ask, are you AI or are you human? Of course she explains that she exists to give quick answers, but also she can rope in our human team at absolutely any time that the guest wants. So we've layered in Zoya's support for me and actually calling her Zoe was really important, not just on the guest front to build a bit of a ah character out of her, but also internally because although we have quite a young team, in the beginning there was still a bit of resistance. A bit is kind. There was still resistance when it comes to AI. We're all human. Right. So am I going to be placed? Is there no space for me? So last few months I've also created a job description for our AI agent, Zoe, and we've had to revise the job description of our humans as well.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So they know what their expectations are now and where Zoe starts and stops and when they are expected to step up basically and deliver. You ask me, when does she know when to escalate? It is all in the art of designing policies. I consider it to be a gift because I have the opportunity of sharing how to design policies in our podcasts and in sessions. And I love this because especially with hosts who feel that they are almost allergic to tech, when they understand that a policy is basically a framework of I call it TRT and garner t trigger, what is triggering this communication r reaction? How would you react in this instance with this guest T, the second T tone, the empathy, the friendliness, adding in examples of what you would say and then most importantly, the guardians, when will she stop promising? When will it? Or she stop promising and escalate to the human T. And so when you realize that you're just building a policy with that framework and then honestly adding that one framework into your preferred AI to generate more policies for all of the moments that are required in your guest journey, from pre booking to post sale.

Speaker A: Okay, you talk about the seven moments. Let's just go through those. And I'd like to just to capture how those policies fit into those seven moments, because I know you tell the story about when you started your AI journey. You just didn't have those policies written down. So I think I'm going to ask you to go back a bit and unwrap how you create. How many do you have? Do you have 20? Do you have 200? So let's start with when you realize that you didn't have them written down. How did you start doing that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think maybe because I'm female also, I say this unapologetically. I am not ashamed to say that my AI journey, my first hit in the face was like, so AI is making a mess because you have no policies. And I feel that I'm, ah, not the only one who is in this space. Especially when you're scaling right and you're scaling so fast and you're depending a lot on the humans in your team, know the drill and they just continue to answer or take action and you don't really have the time or space to say, what are my sops? Uh, what are my playbooks? So I think this is what happened to us. And again, our excuse is we really were honestly scaling fast and building that momentum. But the thing is with AI, if you're not going to get your foundations right and if your policies are not going to be set, then AI is not going to amplify your mess.

Speaker A: I use that expression all the time when I'm teaching. Whatever you have in place, AI will just amplify what you have in place until you start defining what those frameworks are, uh, what those policies, SOPs, whatever you want to call them, are. Uh, AI will just amplify the mess that's currently in place.

Speaker B: Yes, but also because we are human and tend to get a bit stubborn, sometimes we get defensive and our reaction is only, AI is crap. This isn't working. This is not working. I told you it's not working. And we make ourselves feel better by just being very. We just shut it out. So then, uh, I was like, okay, we're building policies here, not just for AI but also for our team as we scale, right? We're building our own playbook, basically. And I said, let's simplify. What are our seven guest moments? So before they book at, uh, discovery, at moment of booking, and then I have arrival and access, arrival at the property, access being codes or keybox, whatever a PT box called varivaland access. Okay? Then I have during this day, if something happens, if something goes wrong, and then my number six is at checkout, okay? Recently, in the last maybe two, three months, I've introduced number seven, which is come back. So because not. Not just because of AI, but also because of our automated messages which are designed to be triggered via OTA channel and WhatsApp, there is this opportunity to re engage with guests who gave us a positive review in particular. And the gentic AI now is really helping us even further. But to reconnect with guests and either see if they are interested in coming back to the island. And with staycations, this is popular especially or refers to a friend. And that is where I close a look. Now, when you see that there are only seven guest moments, then everything you are designing within your journey just falls in that bucket, basically. And I think what it gave me is a lot of clarity, which led to confidence because when I started, it was always noisy. Two years ago, it was just like. So it always gets very loud, especially when you're like very hungry to learn and you're listening to a lot of podcasts and following and going to all the events, lots of information. So sometimes you just need to be a bit grounded and really map it all out. And this for me was a subway map. I actually still have this sketch because then I took it a step further and I want the tech to support me in the three rails, which are distribution operations and communication with owners and guests. And so that is all we need, no matter where we are in our journey.

Speaker A: Do you have a standard process of writing out your sops?

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, so when it comes to AI, I use my own NOW framework which is TRT and guardrails, so everything fits there. I also though have a separate playbook which is dedicated to brand, which I love. Um, again, so I dive deep into who is Zoe, how she answers, uh, what engagement is with a lot of different examples there. So again, when you're building this, yes, I am not going to like sugarcoat it. You are putting in the work. But again today with Zoe answering 1,200 messages, that's saving us money but also ensuring that we have consistency in our replies across. I also then have a third playbook, so it's guest experience, brand playbook and my third playbook is local expertise and travel quizzes. So whether, uh, we talk about Malta's weather or its election season or policies which are very specific to our islands. And from there we unleash the designing itineraries which are aligned to a guest, so which are intentional and that's really beautiful to bring.

Speaker A: After 25 years in this industry, I can tell you that direct bookings don't happen by accident. They come from staying in touch with your guests and building relationships with them over time. And that requires data most operators simply don't have. Stayfi solves a problem that has frustrated property managers for years. When guests connect to your wifi, StayFi captures their contact details not just from the lead booker, uh, but from everyone staying in the property. Over time that adds up. I've seen portfolios collect tens of thousands of guest emails in less than a year. And, uh, larger operators are now building lists of 50,000 or more and using that as a genuine growth channel. But the data is only useful if you do something with it. And StayFi handles that too through automated emails, post day follow ups and campaigns designed to bring guests back. One operator I spoke with grew direct bookings from 0 to 30% in about a year and a half. Another team generated $35,000 in repeat bookings in their first six months from email marketing alone. If you don't have the capacity to manage it yourself, they now offer a, uh, managed email marketing service where their team handles the strategy and the execution for you. They've also made setup more accessible with a new hardware option called Adjunet, which runs up to 40% cheaper than previous systems. Head to stayfi.comvrsuccess to learn more and get 50% off your first three months. So what platforms do you use?

Speaker B: So our DMS is gexty. So that's what I call the engine. But then the brains that sit on top, that's boom. So whether it is operations or our, uh, integrated messaging, guest communication. Now my new playground, agentic AI, which I have the pleasure of working very closely with them on, because I have a bit of a different framework than what everyone is talking about. So I love experimenting there. And so they are our tech partners. What I appreciate about Boom. Is that they actually entertained my I need this to feel like brand. I don't want my AI agents to sound like Kevin's AI agent. Yeah, Zoe needs to be zing. And they went with that. Not everyone did. And so in the beginning, I think I used to get these looks of AI agents. What are you not understanding Sabbath? It's like this is an AI agent for guest communication. Fake news. I don't want fake news. I want full conversations. So I didn't find a bit of a wall there. And we explored it together. And so. And again, that's the beauty of this space. A, uh, collaboration. What can you bring to the table? How can we work in par? Right.

Speaker A: So, yeah, I love to hear that because I've had this conversation with a few vendors when they've been pitching me. I've got their pitch decks and I go back and I say, okay, how does a company's brand fit into this? How are they explaining their vision, their mission, their values? How are they explaining their avatars and the people that they're speaking to? And I got this almost blank response. Uh, it's everybody. It's the industry. No, it's not the industry. Everybody's so different. And, um, I love that, that you have gone into Boom. With your passion for your brand and making sure that everything that's coming through speaks in your voice. Because that's what this is all about. It's allowing the AI to work for you, but to still speak as you would and to express what your company is all about.

Speaker B: Yeah, for me, and like, I feel really strongly about this, the tech should not be felt by the guest. So the guest should have absolutely no clue basically how automated messages work. And if tech brands can create such beautifully designed, intuitive or beautifully built intuitive tech that really, a guest feels like they are supported basically throughout all seven moments and throughout their guest journey. That's when a tech brand becomes a champion brand. The tech is silent. Hospitality is what should be said. Can I give you an example of course. Okay. Uh, my example would be with psychogenic AI, right? And this was a pain point when we started scaling because we like celebrating birthdays. And in the beginning when we started, I remember one of my first ideas was, if you are celebrating your birthday during your stay, then I want to give you a cake, I want to give you flowers, I need to meet you. And because also you're coming to an island, right? And people expect island people to have an, uh, even higher rate of friendliness. Basically. What was this, like Moana island vibe? So we're island people. We should be. And when we're scaling, that starts to break with a gentle. So with one prompt, basically. And there's a difference between prompt and playbook, but with one prompt, let's say that for now, Agent Ki is checking all the check in forms, reading the passports, basically pulling a list of guests who are celebrating their birthday during their stay, presenting me with that list. And then my human teams are the ones who make the call or deliver. And that's when it becomes this beautiful waltz between tech and humans. I don't need a human anymore to jump from tab to tab, move from one platform to another. Look at all of those. And even if you're not scaling, why shouldn't you do it if tech is going to do it faster and better than you?

Speaker A: This, uh, brings me back to an example I quoted, I've been quoting for years. And this goes back to about 20 odd years ago when my son and his wife, they were just fairly newly married and they did a Far east tour and they were staying in hostels, they were in their very early twenties, staying in hostels and really roughing it. And then they decided that they would really blow everything. And they went to stay in a Hilton, it was in Thailand, I think, and they went to stay in a high end Hilton. And it was my daughter in law's birthday and um, they'd just come back from an excursion, they were back in their hotel room, they were sitting on the balcony, having a glass of wine and there was a knock on the door. And when they went to the door, one of the managers was there with a birthday cake and a card delight. And this is 20 years ago. So this was hospitality. And I've spoken about it a lot in the early stages of this podcast because I've never forgotten that. But I remember Andrea saying, how did they know? And, um, they said, if they collect your passport when you arrive, somebody manually looked through all those passports and figured out who was having a birthday. Now I mention that because you said exactly. This is exactly how AI works so perfectly. There doesn't have to be that manual checking through of passports anymore because the AI will do that. And it doesn't have to be somebody compiling a list. AI compiles a list, presents it, but it is still the person who delivers it. It's just they now have more time to spend to do that. And uh, uh, this is just this lovely progression. Hospitality hasn't changed, it's just given people more time to deliver it. Now pendant wither.

Speaker B: You feel like showing up for your guests, right? To tie in what we were saying about burnout and busy. Because when you're burnt out and busy, you really don't feel like meeting a person at all. And for me, what I am trying to really highlight is that this space, it's all about feelings and the right feelings. And when we manage to delight the guests exceed their expectations. When my agentic AI now can tell me, you know what, Heather stayed with you twice, she always asks for green tea and an extra pillow. And I can put that in your room. Before you ask me, I have made you feel in a very cold and fast world for a split second you say, wow, they know me. This is how we build loyalty. Because loyalty and point, this is a whole other discussion. But when it comes to loyalty, how we're talking about loyalty in this industry is very much transaction point. And you unlock something that's not loyal to. Loyalty is making you feel wanted and special. And then it's no matter where Zing will be open in a few years time, you look for the brand then. So let's feeling. And this is why I think I won't say females anymore because I always get flack about it. Individuals with female energy who can really be emotional about the fact that people are spending money time making memories. Like I say, if my daughter travels with me twice a year until she's 16, that could be just 32 trips, right? So please, anyone I stay with, please don't ruin it, Please make it special. And we are the Guinness Heather. So I don't know why we forget we know how we want to be treated. Nothing to deliver.

Speaker A: It's an expensive thing to go on vacation. It always has been. I think, uh, it still costs money, but it's still people have valuable time. They don't have much time to do it now. And when they do it, it has to be special. So I think you just got to go that bit more overboard to make it an experience to remember. I want to step into Something you just mentioned reviews. And I think I can't remember what you're mentioning reviews in relation to, but I've been thinking a lot about uh, reviews and sentiment analysis and the fact that there is so much in guest reviews now that can tell so much about a trip and what people like. How do you deal with reviews? I think you are now expanding into that whole sentiment analysis type of research. How do you do that?

Speaker B: So a few things here. When it comes to reviews, there is the AI which can obviously answer reviews over a four star rating. Right? And that's what you want. Because if you're getting under four stars, it's not about designing policies for the AI to apply, it's about addressing those gaps with the team so that they don't happen again. So there's that part. Then there is also the part of like why I'm um, over dashboards and very much more into agentic because a dashboard is going to give you all your information when it's too late. The guest gave you three star, but that guest lets go. How we have redesigned our policies and how agentic AI helps as well is when you arrive, you receive an automated message to make sure that you're happy with what you found in the property. Right. And I'll uh, give an example here as well if you'd like. And if something is bothering you, the AI is smart enough to translate that negative feedback into a service call for the team, continue the conversation with you. Okay. And then close that service call and what gets love is that you took action. Okay. You'll find guests who are very difficult and just want their money back. And you. But like a lot of times guests who are with their intention of making memories and they're in holiday mode actually, if you can fix it fast, you are winning their farts even more. Right? And then there are also the guests who are maybe shy or embarrassed or don't want to waste time calling you, but they will answer a WhatsApp message to tell you. We had a guest recently. She told us, uh, apartment is great, but there is a construction site and the balcony is a bit dusty. And our plan was to have a barbecue tonight. So that was the feedback she sent us. An hour after she arrived, Zoe answered her, opened a service call for the housekeeping team nearby, continued the conversation with the guest. Guest told us we're going out for a late lunch. Zoe told we have permission to enter. She said yes, guest arrived back and the balcony was clean. Yes, you've won. The guest, she wouldn't have. She was so nice. She probably wouldn't have bothered us, uh, because again. But then she would have written it in the review, probably. Right. So it's also about how the saves. How can agentic AI save us during this day, not when it's too late.

Speaker A: In the dashboard, you mentioned earlier that there was resistance at the outset. And it's something that we talk about a lot in the ambassador course where we talk about communication and how you communicate your adoption and implementation of AI to the team and how important that is. How does your team feel now that this has been in place for a while?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, um, really proud of this because, hey, I understand the fears. Right. I also understand and appreciate that part of their fear was because they had a lot of negative experiences with chat bots and sometimes on some of the biggest brands in the world. Yeah, I keep answering and then they tell you, okay, well open it to it. So it's. When I sound like this, what is, um, talking about? Basically, why does she want to do this? So again, one of the reasons why I called her Zoe is because first Zoe started to handle, uh, the shift that everyone hated. Nighttime example or on a public holiday, for example, or Sunday. I had a special group, we used to meet three times a week where we also talk about what is Zoe? How is Zoe answering incorrect? Because again, Zoe will make a mistake and you will see the title of the policy. You will go and you will edit that policy and Zoe will not answer incorrectly again. Right. If you take action, that's not going to snowball. So that's again, one of the benefits of AI that you're training it. But then it's not going to sway back to the original if it's designed well. And so when they started realizing that, again, the common question, they're not answering anymore. And yes, let's have, we have more time to. Let's see what collaborations we can come up with because again, this is short term rentals and people want to live like a local, especially when their bookings are coming from particular OTA channels like Airbnb. The mindset is I want to immerse in their culture. I want to ask a question about their language. I want to know about if there are any, I don't know, festas but feet in the area. So that's the mindset of the traveler. Right. Are there any kids programs? Where can we go swim? Which is off the beaten track. Where can I go which isn't necessarily on Google. Right. There is this, I call it the difference Between a, uh, tourist and a traveler. The travelers for me. Right. And we want more travelers. Basically, I would like to attract more travelers. Right. Rather than people who are honestly interested in saying, I have a photo memory book of my time on this island. So when they started realizing that, oh, they have more time on their hand. And also we can attract a different type to join our guest experience team. People who are very obsessed about hospitality and curious and are really about the guests. They want to speak to the guests. They have no problem in saying, can I meet you? Do you want me to come and give you a tour of your room? They want to show up. They don't want to hide behind the computer and just answer, how does the Jacuzzi work? Five million times there. Then everything starts moving forward. So, yeah, I, uh, think that was really important. Not just from a guest front, but also giving Zoe AI a bit of a role within our team structure and making it clear of where AI starts and where it stops. And, again, communicating. Right. Which we never really, uh. It's hard. It's not as easy as it sounds, Again, especially when you're scaling and you're moving. But the art of this is to read almost like you are a booty.

Speaker A: Yeah. And to do that with 600 properties, that is something else. So AI obviously is helping you scale at speed as well. So if you've got somebody listening to this who is a property manager and they've been watching AI from the sidelines, and I have to say, the majority of property managers I talk to are doing exactly that. They're a little head in the sand. They don't understand where to start. They've probably used the platforms, they're probably using ChatGPT perplexity, but they just don't know where to kick off from. What's the one thing you'd say to them based on your experience and what you've been through over the past year or so?

Speaker B: So I think I was thinking about this on the plane ride back from Scale AI, it's like where we're at. This is your choice. You can either experiment and build, or you can stay in your zone of genius and be a hospitality player, but choose the right tech partner to be by your side where you can really design the policies, come up with your playbooks, which are aligned to your goals and your brand values, and the tech will just move itself because, again, there's a lot of noise about the building it. And I have so much admiration and appreciation. And I follow. Like Sidi, you mentioned. So amazing that's just not me. Right. I want to focus more on the hospitality and this is why it's nice working with different talent because you can really stay in your lane. So I think choose your tech partners wisely. Also ask the right questions when you are stress testing tech. Right. I think we should just kill all these demos. No more demos. Show me how your tech reacts. When at 2 in the morning my guest is locked out, go with the hard question. So we need to flip a bit of how this plays out, especially in these expos and in the events where we're just kind of putting pitches. Right. We need the product to be better than the pitch.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's overwhelming. It's so overwhelming. Everybody's there, uh, saying, this is what my product, this is what my AI does. And for me it's always telling people to go back to setting your foundation in place. Once you've got that foundation, then you can start moving from there and getting the things out of your head and, um, document what you do. And before you start even thinking about working with AI, so you're working with platforms, you're working with boom. Does your team use any other. Are they using Claude or ChatGPT or is this all proprietary and what you've built in yourselves?

Speaker B: So yeah, we do like even something as basic as adding a new policy for our AI agent, right. We just put in our framework with, let's say we want to add a policy about, I don't know, a heat wave, weather conditions, extreme weather conditions and how to answer that. Right. So it's still the same framework but then I would put it in my case, I use perplexity. So I put it in perplexity, right. It would give me the framework. I take the time to read it though. So also ownership on this policy, right? It's not just a copy paste, easy to just get policies, but make it your own and then run it again and then test it and as well, I was very surprised at Scaly UK because I spoke to almost all of the tech players there. Don't experiment with guests M make your own fake booking, make your own reservation and test that policy and test all your policies every couple of days and see how your agent is reacting. You are in the driver's seat here. AI is not taking over. You are there and you have this gift of a tool, I think. So use it well. And I think also be careful of all the noise. And again, this is why my seven guest moments and three rails keep me anchored. Just understand that what you need is very Contained. Right. And do the best hospitality that you can.

Speaker A: That is a great point to wrap this up, I think. Do the best hospitality you can. You've given us a lot here, Sab. I've come away with your TRT and your seven moments and frameworks. I'm sure people are going to really dial down on this and think about it. So, uh, just one last question. Where does Sab Mulligan go now? Uh, are you in this forever? Do you have ambitions for the future?

Speaker B: So what I know for sure is that I want to remain in the SDR space. I am a hospitality person, so I think that is where I can bring value. I'm also very creative and I think that kind of helps in this space. So that is where I, uh, know I can add more value myself. And what can I can bring to the table? I'm not gonna lie. In the last 12 months, I did fall deeply in love with this AI journey. And again now even deeper when it comes to AgentIQ. So being able to design in such a way that really it's hospitality first, I think super important. I think tech brands need to be hospitality players, basically because they are building for hospitality, so they need to know what the industry truly needs. Basically, you can't have people who are representing tech companies and they don't know what our pain points are. So hopefully I'll continue to dive deeper with tech companies that kind of understand the importance of brand, understand the importance of guest loyalty, and also appreciate that scaling is different for everyone. It doesn't necessarily mean numbers.

Speaker A: You've articulated that beautifully. Thank you. And I expect to see you in conferences, panels, podcasts, webinars as we go forward. So thanks, Sab, so much for joining me. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

Speaker B: Heather, thank you so much. Forever a fan and keep up the great work. You are such a thought leader and I appreciate you.

Speaker A: Thank you. That was a great conversation, uh, with Sab Mulligan. And I love her energy, the way she thinks forward, but most of all, the passion for hospitality that she has that just shines through every single thing she says, even when she's talking about AI. She is just proof that the two can mix together really well. We can use AI to expand on what we do in the hospitality area. So it will be interesting to watch Sab as the years go on and see what she does in technology or in AI and in hospitality. So there were a number of things in that discussion that got me thinking, and I know I said a couple of times I talked a couple of times about the AI Ambassador course because most of what she was saying feeds right into what we teach, what we talk about in the AI Ambassador program. So if you are interested in doing something with your company in the same way that SAB has done with Zing, then this program is for you. If you haven't started to incorporate AI into your company, everything we talk about will give you the foundations and the framework and the playbook to begin developing your own program and um, platform to deliver better hospitality through AI. So if you're interested, the next cohort of the AI ambassador program does start next week. It starts on the 6th of July and you can join right up until then. If you're interested, please let me know. If you want to have a discussion with me, then I'm more than happy to get on a call, tell you what it's all about, what it entails. I know it's coming in the middle of the summer season, but quite honestly it will dovetail very neatly into what you're doing and almost immediately help you with the busyness. So get in touch, let me know and we'll have a chat about it and see if it's a right fit for you. I'd like to thank you as ever for being with me always. Just great to have you here and we will continue the AI conversation next week. It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the show. Notes for the episode@vacationrentalformula.com we'd love to hear from you and I look forward to being with you again next week.

Speaker B: Sam.