Why the Judgement of Paris Still Matters

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Speaker A: Welcome to Strategy Sessions by Thirsty bandit consultant. Episode 30, why the judgment of Paris Still Matters. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Strategy Sessions. This is Corey Krajczek and I'm here with Rachel Brown. Rachel Brown, happy 30th podcast today.

Speaker C: Really? Wow. Big day across the board.

Speaker A: I know, right? Uh, I know we, it's so funny because this, this podcasting thing is so new to us still after 30 episodes, but I feel like every podcast we celebrate the, the next podcast like it's episode number 23. Like, but, you know, it's, it's not that these are hard, but you know, there's a ton of stats out there right, as to the shelf life of, of, of podcasting efforts. And so I think for us to celebrate the relevance and our, um, longevity in this endeavor is, is worthy. So sorry for the listening audience out there, but Rachel and I are very proud of the fact that we've reached a nice 3, 0, um, which is also halfway through season two of our podcast. We try to tackle 20 of these, um, per season. Uh, and you and I haven't really connected, but I, I do have some really fun, interesting guests on the horizon for, um, for the second half of, of season two. But, um.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: How you been, man? Been all right.

Speaker C: Doing good. Trying to stay cool in the heat, but doing good otherwise. Yeah.

Speaker A: Drink any good wines recently?

Speaker C: I hate to even say. No, I haven't. I did have. What did I have? I had a sparkling. Oh, no. What was it? I'm going to forget A, uh, sparkling Riesling recently out of Washington. That was pretty good. But that's, that's been my last, I think my last one that I had. It's been a little bit for me. I had a margarita, if that counts.

Speaker A: I mean, I'm not going to, going to bash you for that. I had too many margaritas the other night. We, uh, we make them at home.

Speaker C: It's the season.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's okay to take a break from time to time. Um, we did crack open a Magnum bottle of 2019. Timing is everything From Chadds Ford Winery.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and drank it over several session. Several nights. Uh, and it poured really lovely. It was really, really delightful. So that was always a fun one. For again, for those listening at home, um, or the former winery both Rachel and I worked for, we would do, um, really Bordeaux style blends, um, every year and come up with really fun, fanciful names for them. Some we would bottle in 750 format and we, we set aside a, some for, for 1.5 liter formats too. And our 2019 vintage, uh, the name was Timing is Everything. And, um, you know, I still believe that. I still believe that in life and in the vineyard and in the cellar that when you decide to, um, do certain things, your life decisions or your, uh, winemaking decisions, timing is, is everything. And so that was a nod to that when we, when we named that all the way back in 2019. And it really was an enjoyable, um, pour that we had the other night. So it was fun to go back to that.

Speaker C: I think I drank mine, I think I drank mine over Christmas and it did really well.

Speaker A: Oh, you had a magnum too?

Speaker C: I did. I had one left. And I think we did it at Christmas. We did like a smoky pulled pork with it and it was really good. It was devoured. It was gone by the end of the night. So you can imagine how everyone was feeling at the end of Christmas.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, we know how that gets. You know, it's funny, I was just working on, um, tasting notes for, for a project we're working on and I shared them, um, with, with someone. I don't, I can't remember. It was one of our investors or just a partner. And it, you know, we use the word drinkable, right? And they're like, what is a drinkable wine? Yeah, I said, okay, let me explain. Yes. Is it, uh, all wine theoretically is drinkable, however, uh, you know, uh, lower tannin, lower alcohol, you know, fruit, let.

Speaker C: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: All the vegetable, if you're really, if you're really feeling it. Um, but no, you know, drinkability is, is obviously subjective, but I can't help myself but gravitate towards those wines that are drinkable. You know, something that you, you know, can easily pour yourself a glass and then pour yourself another glass and then pour yourself a third glass and say, wow, I'm really still enjoying this. Which is not something that you can do with, with every single bottle that's out there in my, in my humble opinion.

Speaker C: No, I agree, I agree.

Speaker A: Um, but hey, so for today's topic, however, um, we are going to geek out a little bit on wine and we're going to get back, as you, as you said in pre production on our soapbox, and talk about A topic that was very relevant a few weeks ago, which was the 50th anniversary of judgment of Paris. Um, so for, for those of you who don't know, 50 years ago, um, in late May of, of 1976, you had a, um, British wine merchant, Stephen Spurrier and a wine instructor, Patricia Gallagher, um, organize a tasting in Paris. Now, a lot of people think that it was actually a competition, um, but it was really, really more of like an exhibition. Um, from, from what I can understand, um, the judges were more like guests who were, you know, files and, you know, wine geeks and people in industry. But it was, it was really intended to do kind of a fun lineup against California and French wines. And we see this, and we'll get into this a little bit more during our podcast today. Um, with emerging regions doing this now against California and other established wine regions. But, uh, with the. Obviously the thought saying that don't pay attention to the label, don't pay attention to any preconceived notions you may have. Just taste this wine and give it your honest opinion and assessment. And obviously the wine world was turned upside down, not so much because of the results. It was really more because of the way that the message was delivered. There was only one journalist in attendance at the time, um, George Tabor of Time magazine. And he used the opportunity to really announce sort of this coming of age for the US Wine industry and California wines in general. And so, uh, you know, I wouldn't say it was sensationalized, but it definitely probably received more press and publicity than originally intended. And, and has firmly been one of these points in US Wine history that turned the tides. I mean, it really helped build what Napa and Sonoma and so many of the California wine regions became over the last four decades. Now, obviously, and we've talked about this in the podcast before, um, industry right now is having a challenging time, know, trying to decide what it's going to be for the next 40 years. But the heyday, you know, the heyday of, of California wine coming right out of the late 70s into the mid 2000s, um, a lot of people point back to the Judgment of Paris. And so there's been quite a lot written about this, um, over the last month, month and a half, um, and one particular article really struck a nerve to me. It was actually, it was a really. It was a great article. I don't want to say it was a bad article because it was very, very thought provoking. And it provoked me to write a kind of a counterpoint article to It. But Shana Clark in Vine Pair, um, wrote an article back in at the end of May, um, Entitled, it's been 50 years since the Judgment of Paris. It's Time to Move On. And really how she frames it is that it's a trope. It's been played out. You know, we get it. It's an underdog story. It's the California wines. You know, we're, um, put up against, you know, the big, bad French, and we're just tired of talking about it. Stop regurgitating it. Stop coming up with different riffs on it. Like, we just need to move on. As a premise, I. I can understand why she wrote what she did. Um, I do find it interesting that some of the quotes that she have in the article, um, really play towards more of sort of my defense of the fact that the Judgment of Paris, I think, is still relevant, more relevant today than ever before. And, um, that's where I kind of want to, uh, take our conversation on today's podcast. So, uh, this is one of those. No guests besides Rachel and I on our soapbox talking about things. Uh, so I wrote an article. It's coming out in Grapevine magazine, the summer edition. And the title of that article is Celebrating the Judgment of Paris at 50 and why it's Still Relevant Today. Um, Rach, just initial thoughts. I know you got to read the article. I know you and I kind of share kind of similar vantage points and philosophies when it comes to this. Um, it's still relevant, right? Like, I'm, um, not crazy. Like, it's not played out.

Speaker C: No, no. There's so many states that are still the underdog, that are still fighting to be heard, that are still trying to, like, prove themselves. And I think, like, obviously with PA background, right. Like, we see it all the time of the California versus Pennsylvania, like, debate. Like, same way that, like, California versus France at the time, like, it's still happening. It just may not be on, like, a, uh, global scale like that one was, but it's still happening, like, in our own backyard, where we are still kind of trying to fight to be seen.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And this isn't really trying to be, like, chip on our shoulder, you know, us versus everybody. But what I. Where I think the irony lies is that maybe it's been forgotten that California was in the same position 50 years ago. Right. And so, uh, and I also think current market conditions expose some of the flaws to the industry. Right. The same pretentiousness and, um, stigmas that. That are associated with you know, non Old World wine producing regions. Right. Again, that, that sort of, that ire and that distaste was directed more towards the young upstarts in California 50 years ago, but now you have west coast

Speaker C: producers doing the same thing, doing the

Speaker A: same thing to other emerging wine regions.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so for me, that's, that's where I feel like we haven't learned our lesson.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: California, you know, forgets, forgets where they

Speaker C: came from, that they were once in the, you know, in the ring, trying to, to prove a point. And like, you're right, it's not us versus everybody, but it is kind of like trying to, trying to get your name out there a little bit. So like they were where we're kind of sitting and like, you're still trying to like, move up through the ranks and do all this stuff and it's like we're, we're still here. The playing field just looks a little different now, but we're still like, we're still in it.

Speaker A: And I get it. Right. I mean, we, uh, we know that the reason why regions are called Old World.

Speaker C: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Is because they've been producing wine in those regions for hundreds and thousands of years. And so they have this prestige that has been accumulated over time and a reputation most mostly rightfully so, has been adorned to those regions because of the longevity and what they've produced from a consistent basis of quality over, over a long stretch of time. So California did not obviously have that luxury. And all of the emerging wine regions that we see today don't have that luxury. However, we must be careful not to paint with such a broad stroke and saying every wine from an Old World region is quality and every wine from a, uh, region that's younger is not. And we know this from obviously all of the New World examples that have come on this beyond California, whether it's your Australian wines, your South American wines, your South African wines. Right. That have really been able to take the mantle and say, hey, uh, we're doing some really awesome stuff in our neck of the woods. Uh, where I would love to see a little bit more grace given is with the regions now that have the 40, 50 years of experience, like Pennsylvania, like Michigan, like Texas, like New York. Right.

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker A: And say, you know, these guys are doing some really exciting things. Yes, of course there are a lot of people that aren't making great stuff too. But let's, let's hone in and focus our efforts on the ones that are doing the really quality stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I Mean, I. I think I've talked to you about, you know, I have family in Texas, and I was just there last year, and I was going through driftwood, and I was going through different wineries and, like, what they're able to do with, like, Tempranillo and like, Alianica, like, it's incredible, like, the wines that are coming out. I'm a big Virginia wine fan, like, and they've gotten a lot of recogn of late, which is phenomenal, and it's. It's very well deserved. Their Vanier is some of the best. But there are so many regions that, like, locally, you know, that we could drive to, even through Jersey and Maryland. Like, there's so many places that are doing such incredible stuff. And then they're being. They're being innovative, too. They're taking the hybrids and they're giving them new faces. They're doing so much stuff. Like, really, I think I. I mean, really just could get on my soapbox so hard. But I'm gonna try to like it. You know, there's over 10,000 different varietals used to make wine. Right? Like, every state is making wine now. Like, you have endless options, and a lot of it's gonna be really good. So to, uh, you know, only parcel out where you're drinking from, I feel like, kind of hurts you inadvertently in the end. How do you learn? How do you grow? But there's so much cool stuff happening in wine right now, and it's from regions that get glossed over a lot of the time.

Speaker A: And the onus say again, we. We must be also careful to not paint with a broad stroke because, um, you know, unfortunately, some of your most powerful and most influential voices within wine still are and, you know, entrenched. Entrenched in these, um, beliefs. Right. But I would say from a consumer perspective, as we know, you're. You're. You're a lot of those consumers that possessed those, um, blinders when they. When it came to what they were selecting in the aisle are aging out at this point. And younger consumers are definitely way more willing to embrace new, different. Whether that's packaging, whether that's enclosures, whether that style. Right. I think we've talked about this on the show. If not, we've talked about it in. In other, um, forums that, uh, the question used to be, I only drink Cabernet. Where's your Cabernet? Right. Or, um, we only drank Burgundy. Right. Um, now the question is more often, what do you drink? What do you like? What are you most excited about. So that onus definitely falls on the shoulders of people in industry to mhm. Hopefully perpetuate a more positive, um, inclusive outlook to regions. You know, don't, don't feed the flame of sort of uh, uh, of past mistakes. We all have an opportunity to change the narrative. And it really burns me sometimes when I'm on social or I see younger, younger people and I say I see younger. I mean pretty much anybody under 50 right at this point or maybe you know, under 60 writing with, with uh, being scathing towards any region that's not a traditional wine producer region. I'm like, really? Like, come on man. Like it's.

Speaker C: And like too. I mean you go back to this of like, well, if it was given to you without knowledge of what it was, like when that is removed, what what is the result? Right. Like, I think it's, I think it's hard you to, to have that and then to try to be able to articulate like how many people have had to explain like even just in this part of the state, like what the wines produce, why they're different, how they're different. And like that's kind of where I feel like so much of my calling as like an educator is with wine is to be like, look, like this is why, like this is why it's not a one size fit all. And like those, those moments, hopefully they're impactful, hopefully they stick. But like that, like you're right, that's where it comes from us to even explain the differences, give you something different, give you something fun and to like shed some, some light on that.

Speaker A: Well and, and the other part of this that's, that's interesting. I don't know if it's a, it's not a good thing, but it's, it's just, it's just the way of the world right now is that, you know, climate.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is, is forcing your hand in the matter. Right. I mean there are regions around the world that from a typicity, uh, standpoint cannot produce wines that are reflective of what they produced several decades ago because the growing conditions are not the same. Right. Ask any grower in, in Burgundy or Bordeaux or you know, uh, you know, other places, you know, Rhone Valley, other places around the world, like they are met with different challenges. And then talk to winemakers leading the charge in England.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Making incredible sparkling wines because now all of a sudden they can grow. Mhm. Beautiful high acid, you know, sparkling. So you know, you're gonna, we're gonna be forced to make these decisions one way or the other. Um, but you do need to throw out some of the preconceived notions that these types of wines only come from here. They're the best. And these types of wines come from here, and they're the best. What I would love to say is, every region just say, you know, we do really well. We do some things really well. We do some things not too well. And these are, you know, these are the varieties that perform best in our region. It's taken us a long time to get there, but. But it's still a moving target. You know, it's never. Nothing is ever going to remain static, and we're going to continue to experiment and come up with new things. But in this moment right now, these are the wines, these are the things that I'm most jazzed about, because this is what I think is showing so well over the last handful of vintages.

Speaker C: Well, which is honesty. Like, it's transparency. Right. And I feel like a lot of. I, I don't know, I feel like maybe a lot of it is like, hush, hush, like, oh, we had a crappy harvest. We're struggling with this, which is like, you can't control nature. That's part of it. Right? So, like, how many times have, uh, we even seen, like, wines that we thought were gonna do one thing that ended up doing something else, that got blended, that turned into sparkling, that we never thought we were gonna turn into sparkling? Like, I think just the more transparency and the more we can just kind of be open to this, the discussion of all this, the better. Like, I don't really think that it hurts anything because everyone's struggling no matter what. Like, all those, like, really high end regions, if they're doing stuff like they all have pitfalls, there's no way that they don't. Like, it's not, uh, physically possible to have a perfect growing condition with every harvest. So, like, to your point, you know what's really good right now? The sapling, the Chardonnay, the sparkling is phenomenal. The reds are soft this year, but if you're grilling, it's good. Like, there's, there's so much stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And, and, and that's what makes wine, in my opinion, so unique when compared against any of its other alcoholic beverage counterparts. Right. Is that it's, it's constantly an evolution. You, you embrace the differences from year to year. You speak to what the land was telling you from that particular year. Terroir. Right. Your. The growing conditions, the, the, the weather. You know, the challenges, I mean this year in the mid Atlantic because of the late frost and the frost damage that we saw all across the mid Atlantic, there is going to be a story of resilience. The fruit that comes in on harvest this year, I think our producers will be speaking to it to a degree of pride.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: You know, you know, look what we were able to produce when mother nature threw us a curveball. Yeah.

Speaker C: To survive like truly.

Speaker A: Right. And are they going to come in a little less ripe, a little lower in sugar than they'd want? Are they going to, you know, time will only tell what the quality of that fruit will be. But assuming that it is quote unquote drinkable, um, I think that you will have producers very proud of what they share in bottle because yields will be substantially down. They'll have navigated a very challenging growing season and did what they could with the hand that they were dealt. And so that story is important and how us as retailers and experiential marketers and tasting room associates take that knowledge and share it with the consumer.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Is where that onus shifts.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, but you know, the other point of this is wine is also has always been about discovery. Mhm. Right. So worrying about new regions, you know, taking market share from old regions or um, you know, there not being enough room at the table for everyone, I think is um, foolish. I think that we should be embracing an expansion of category and knowing the variety of consumer interest that's out there and having pride in what's in the bottle. And there's certainly enough to go around. There's enough interest to go around even with a younger consumer being inundated with a deluge of other beverage options including anti alcohol and na, um, and all of that, there's still enough people out there that can appreciate this. It's just how you craft it and how you position.

Speaker C: Yeah. And all these producers that if, you know you're popping up in new regions. Not everyone knows everything. So even from, you know, our side as professionals in the industry, it never stops. And the more that we learn, it makes us better for the people that do come in the door so we can figure out what they like. It all, it's really all just cyclical. It all kind of like, you know, spins back around. But I just think there's so much out there, the world is so big that to not have a uh, level of openness to try something new, to drink a different wine one day, I just, I feel like it hurts you in a way. You know, and it may be your new favorite wine. And, you know, this is a little bit of a side tangent, but, like, it kind of fits where like, every wine that you recommend goes to a memory. Right. It goes to a moment, it goes to an experience. And like, that new wine can solidify like that moment. It's like, it's just, you know, it's hard not to be romantic about wine, I think, in that way. But, um, there's just, there's so much happening out in the world and it's just, it's so cool to see it. And hopefully these regions that are still fighting to be heard get heard and like, kind of find their place on the map.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, and then that kind of takes me to our last, uh, point and really the. One of the last points I have in the article, which is, um, you know, back last month, UC Davis did their own version of a recreation of the Judgment of Paris called the Judgment of Davis, where they had, um, open submissions for Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay. Anyone could submit. And lo and behold, two of the wines that were selected as the best of the tasting were Meadowbrook Winery of New Jersey and Walt's Vineyards of Pennsylvania. Um, I mean, we've been familiar with those wineries for quite some time. I would venture, guess that, that most of the, the, the consumers in the US have not. But, you know, it came as a surprise. Question mark, did it really come as a surprise? Not to us.

Speaker C: Certainly not to us, no.

Speaker A: Right. Um, but this goes back to that power of blind taste.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: It strips away any, any preconceived notion and forces the judges or the tasters to grade on merit and not what the bottle looks like. Mhm. Or the origin. And so, I don't know, I felt like it was such poetic justice that 50 years later we have a New Jersey, a New Jersey Chardonnay and a Pennsylvania Chardonnay represented in the top wines tasted in the. In the judgment of Davis. So I thought that was a really neat thing to see and obviously support our arguments. Right. For this. Um, but that goes back to the whole topic, you know, from the very beginning, is that, um, we've got a lot of work to do. Right. As an industry and as adjacent industries within hospitality and even as consumers. Right. Got to kind of force ourselves to still, uh, you know, think outside the box a little bit and, um, embrace something different for a change. Um, but it's. I think we're all, we all have to do our part in order to see success There. And I do think it's one of the things that can help dig us out of the current place that we are as an industry, um, by embracing new and looking and not being afraid of change.

Speaker C: Not all change is bad change, you know, especially if it can lift so many things up all at one go. Like, you know, growth is uncomfortable, but like, that's how you kind of know it's working, I think a little bit. But it's. Yeah, I, I have high hopes. Hopefully, you know, in the next couple of years things start to change and you and I will probably never stop talking about this. I'm, um, I won't. I'll shut up. I'll never shut up about this. But I, you know, I'm, um, I'm hoping that if like, there's more people like us in the industry, then this is something that can slowly kind of start to roll and change and grow. And then maybe in 10 years we're like, remember when be kind of cool.

Speaker A: Yeah, it would be super cool. I'll take 10 years. I'd rather be 10 years from now than 30 years from now.

Speaker C: That's true.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's for sure. The, um, the thing I've been, the thing I've been using most recently, um, when, when talking to people that have had a negative experience with local wine is um, not trying to defend everything that's out there, but just impressing upon them that you're not looking hard enough.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Right. Like you go to, you go to a restaurant, you have a terrible experience, do you stop going to restaurants altogether?

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker A: Or do you try another restaurant? Yeah, right. Like, don't let one experience ruin it for, for, for you. Mhm. You know, and I think that, you know, I have always felt some sense of, I don't know if this is an extension of like civic responsibility or pride. Right. But you know, we, we try to support, locally, we support CSAs, we, you know, support our local farmers. We do everything we can to, to try to celebrate what's being grown and produced in our backyard. Um, from the economic impact down, sometimes it does just taste better too. And um, so I find it a challenge that I want to go out and actively seek. And I recognize that not every single thing that I'm going to try is going to be great. Um, that does not deter me from continuing to look so that I can find the, the, the wines that are doing our region proud and can be set on an, on a national stage like the, the judgment of Davis and prove their worth, you know, in a blind set.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, they're out there. It's like, it feel like it's so much less forgiving. Like, you go to one winery and have a bad experience, you're like, that's it. I'm done. But, like, yeah, you know, exactly right.

Speaker A: So open your minds, people. Look harder.

Speaker C: Yes. Be open to the universe and local wine.

Speaker A: Yep. And take a look at my article if you can, um, coming out, um, very soon, uh, in the summer issue of Grapevine magazine. But, uh, I think that's enough. I think the soapbox is bowing under our weight, our collective weight on it. So, um, we'll use this opportunity to sign off, uh, episode three zero. Thank you so much for listening to us in another episode of Strategy Sessions. Uh, and we'll catch you again here next time.

Speaker C: Cheers.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining us for Strategy Sessions. Please like follow, share and subscribe at Thirsty Bandit company. Tyler redick here from 2311 racing another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with Chumba. Jump in at chumba crew casino.com let's shamba. No purchase necessary. BTW group void where prohibited by law. CTNCs21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.

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