Becoming a Change Agent in the Insurance Industry with Courtney Davis

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Uh, Welcome to the Voices of Risk Management, the premier podcast that gives listeners a 30 minute peek into the minds of risk and insurance leaders. Now kick back and explore the world of risk management with your hosts, Hunter Fosnaught and Katie Crow.

Speaker C: Welcome back to REMS UM 2025 in Chicago. We are so excited to have Courtney Davis with us today who is the Executive Vice President and Global Education Practice leader at Hub International. Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker B: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be back and speaking with the both of you again.

Speaker A: It's amazing to see you again, so really appreciate the time. How's, uh, rims going? Are you enjoying the conference?

Speaker B: I am. This is the first time I've been here for the full conference and I forgot, having not been here since 2022, how large it is, how many people there are, and more excitingly, how many people. I know it's not the universe I'm usually operating in, but it has been amazing and nice to like, reconnect with everyone, especially in my own city.

Speaker C: Local too.

Speaker B: We love that.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. I, I, I, the location. I wish McCormack was maybe a little closer to, like, the Loop, but I love being back in Chicago and the restaurant scene is just, um, the best. I think it's a great city for eating, if you're into that sort of thing.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I remember someone's like, what restaurant should I go to? I was like, um, can you put in parameters? Do you want Italian? Do you want steak? Do you want seafood? Like, you need help? Because you can have anything you want here.

Speaker A: So, um, this is one of my favorite type of episodes where we had you on a couple of years ago, one of the questions we asked you, we reviewed your career, you told us how you got into insurance, and then we asked you, like, what, what could be next? I don't really recall your answer, but here we are. And there was a next. And you, uh, left the University of Chicago Risk Management, and now you're at Hub. So can you take us into that journey a little bit and why you did it and your, your experience so far?

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, naturally, I've been in the industry now for about 18 years and it's always been dedicated to educational institutions. Half of that was on the brokerage side and half of that was at the University of Chicago. When I was at University of Chicago, I didn't really have any intentions on leaving. I really loved the environment, what I was doing. It was challenging. There was always something new to navigate. But naturally, I'm a go getter and I always want more. And so the opportunities for more was one of two ways. It was to continue to build your portfolio to get things like internal audit compliance, erm, or kind of shift to, uh, another avenue, which would be to work myself to be like a COO or something of that nature. Fortunately, I think I kind of hit the ceiling as to where I could go at the institution. And it was time for me to explore something new. And so, um, I made the decision to leave while I was finishing an MBA program. And ultimately from having conversations over years, it did take me some time to come. Uh, Hub International was really where I wanted to be and ultimately was the best fit.

Speaker C: So what about that company felt so good? Like what, what about that? You're talking about fit? Like, what did that, what does that mean to you? And within that context, like, what really drove you to, to them?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So we began talking almost two years ago. So if you ask anyone, it's like, this is the longest hiring process ever. But the timing just wasn't right at that point. Um, because I think I just got risk manager of the year. I was going to send the board of United Educators and I was just starting my MBA program. Um, and again, I was really happy. I've never really gone out to look or explore, but the conversations that I had with people were really amazing. And I had the opportunity to build something myself, um, because the education practice didn't exist. Although there was clients, there was no one in that leadership position. So that was something that was really attractive to me, to me. But beyond that, it was the people who I met with. So through the interview process, there were certainly people, they said, you know, we want you to talk to this practice leader or this executive, which was great. But a lot of people I've known in the industry and have worked with for years were starting to go to Hub. So I had my back end channels and I was talking to them and they said, this is my favorite place that I've worked at. Having now been here for about 10 months. I totally feel it. Um, so it was really the people and the opportunity. Because just as much as the opportunity is great, it's who you work with because you work together all the time, but you also make each other successful too. And I want to have a good time while I'm doing it.

Speaker A: I think that's key. I think I love the last part too. Like it's not just getting the job or growing. Like you got a finite time on this planet and let's enjoy it. You should be, you should enjoy it and be challenged and growing.

Speaker C: So, yeah, we all work so hard, uh, all the time.

Speaker B: All the time, yeah.

Speaker C: If you don't like the people you work with, then like, what are you doing?

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker A: So that, that's amazing. What is it? Um, so Hub has kind of been, uh, very successful, but it feels like they're kind of growing up a little bit and they've got a huge footprint of, you know, smaller offices that they've acquired now, but they're kind of getting into the larger account space. Is that correct?

Speaker B: That's exactly right. And that's also why we structured a new commercial lines, uh, strategy as we move upwards from mid market to larger accounts. Um, and so I think we are, you know, as capable as any firm out there with the talent. And so I think we're making that investment and really thinking strategically and holistically about how we approach the marketplace, uh, in total.

Speaker C: So what's maybe something that surprised you about your transition that you weren't expecting to happen or maybe is something you're like, oh, I never thought about kind of that I was shifting from the risk management to the broker side. Is there anything that surprised you?

Speaker B: Um, on my job description, it definitely said you may travel 25% of the time and you know, my boss is awesome and definitely, you know, make your own schedule. You have a young daughter. Do what you need to do. I'm m on the road all the time. But I love it. I do love it. But I thought it would be to meet with like, clients and prospects and things of that nature. I'm meeting us, which is great. So again, I keep talking about the people because I'm going to different summits and meeting all of my colleagues and it's always like, have I met you yet? Because you're on the phone virtually and you know, you see people, then m, you're getting in touch and meeting people in person. Um, I'm kind of on this road show to introduce myself, but also talk about what we're doing with the education practice. So I mentioned we're going to summits, but I've been to like sales meetings and other initiatives and chief marketing officer meeting, chief sales officer meeting. So I'm meeting our people, which helps me then add to the value proposition when I'm trying to sell or, you know, tell people why Hub, huh? It's great when you start with that foundation of the people and you know their capabilities and you personally met them and you're trusting Them. So I started with the travel aspect because I didn't think I was going to be on the road as much as I have. Um, but it's been awesome. That was the biggest surprise. Could not be more accurate.

Speaker A: Yeah. 25%. Yeah.

Speaker B: So in a sense, 50, 60, 70%.

Speaker A: It's close. Round up 30 or 40% in the blueprint here for successful specialty practice. Isn't it really educating and engaging the entire network so that they can identify opportunities and leverage your expertise? Is that what you're trying to do?

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I'm trying to do things differently and new and try different strategies. So in addition to getting out and meeting the people, my. I was surprised. This is another surprising thing. The press release didn't go out until my fourth day on the job. When I left the university, I didn't promote where I was going. It was a secret because we're like, there's gonna be a press release. It's be gonna to be huge. It's going to be great. And so I'm meeting with people on day one, the office, and someone emailed me. It's like, hey, I heard you're a new practice lead. I have a question. I was like, how did you even find. I was like, so the word got out. But it is about connecting with people because the goal is to grow, to educate and to expand what we're doing. And so some of the ways we're doing it. Every month we have a practice call with the entire practice and the members of the practice. Um, I do a series called Coffee or Drinks with Courtney and Diane playing off the cd. So we do like, uh, once a month, if it's in the morning, you may have a coffee. If it's in the evening or afternoon, you may have something else that you like, whatever that may be. But it's an opportunity to connect. And sometimes we'll have a topic, but it's just like, what do you need? What's top of mind? What's the latest trend? And it's nice to go into meeting with not having a plan for something, but just also being able to connect and address an immediate need. We also have monthly carrier conversations inviting the market to come on and talk to us. I'm going to introduce something new, like First Wednesday wedge to help our producers with new solutions that they can immediately push out out to the clients. So it's exciting to. To build, grow. I'm listening. There's no right or wrong path, but just want to do things new. Sometimes corning, like March Madness, Cross Sell Challenge. And all my emails had a basketball theme to it. Thank you, Chat. GPT.

Speaker A: Oh, I like.

Speaker C: That's cool with all of this. I want to get drinks with you.

Speaker B: We are at rims.

Speaker A: That's so cool. Uh, I have no reason to believe you're not going to be wildly successful. I think Hub is very lucky to have you. So, uh, thank you from the voice of Risk Management for letting us be a part of your story and tell your story. Uh, it's pretty rare that we get a guest back who actually made a change. When we asked them that question a few years ago. Um, pivoting really quick. Last time you were on, we talked a lot about diversity in the industry. Um, and this continues to be an area where we've got a long way to go, I think. I don't think anybody's really arguing against that. Um, can you provide some insight into maybe some things that are working that you see companies or organizations doing and identify maybe some where you see areas of opportunity or improvement?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So one thing I always like to start with is like, the association work. So where I'm at today I largely attribute to the foundation of the first brokerage I work at, but then also the network of ermia, that's the RIMS for higher education institutions. And, um, we may have talked about this a bit before, but I really leaned in deeply to make sure that I could see the representation in the association to be that voice and change agent. So some of the things we've done in that association is we have the Be the Change scholarship, a, ah, strategic goal that focuses on diversity, equity and inclusion. Um, but one thing that I noticed over the years is that the number of professional of colors continues to grow. But sometimes it's really hard to, like, see it when you're with thousand people at one time. So I remember when we were in Indianapolis, we took a picture. I was like, I want to get all the professionals of college gather and take a picture. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is great. Uh, we're gonna do this every year. And then we're like, we'll take it a step further. We started the professionals of Color community to bring something together to help support one another. We thought it was gonna be mostly professional. It ended up being more personal and supportive in nature as we go through the things that impact us all. And then when we got together the next year, I got that other picture. We were even bigger. And we had music at our celebration the first time we got together the last year, we were like, triple the size of what we were. Um, and then it's building upon, like, getting representations from different types of institutions. So sometimes you have to be that change agent yourself. But that's just an example. In association, I always try to make myself available to other people so that they can see themselves in me. And so anytime I get an opportunity to speak, to talk about what I'm doing, to talk about the challenges, I do that. Uh, I love mentoring. I'm finally at the stage. I'm like, I don't think I'm a young professional anymore. I'm like, it's time to give back directly. Um, so on Hub, we have a Hub, um, a Black Inclusion Network and a women's network. We did a panel for Women's History Month, um, of black women who are trailblazers in the industry. And there was a woman who got in there and was like, I need help. I need, you know, how do I go about finding a mentor? I said, I will be your mentor. Like, reached out. So sometimes it's being intentional, one off. Sometimes it's trying to support an industry as a whole. Um, I think even no matter what company I've worked in, I've always asked the question, like, what are we doing? And you don't stop until you see the change that you want. And so hopefully, you know, just speaking up and using my voice and being confident, because if I don't, then who will?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess I could share a little bit. Like, I've learned a little bit. And through, like, relationship with you in listening is what does inclusive really mean? And I've come to the belief that until you have, uh, more people that look like you or maybe comfort, it's never going to be truly inclusive. How. How could it be? Right. It would be very similar if I went to an all women's conference. I would not be. I would not feel it would not be an inclusive environment just because I would be the only male at a female conference.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So we have to fill up the funnel and get our message out and make a pathway for people of color. Correct. I mean, isn't. Can't we do a lot more than this? What's your thoughts?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, it's nice to see more professionals of color, but it's also, what levels are the professionals of colors at?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like, we need to see it at the executive track. And how. What are we doing to support that pathway? Um, because it's. It's not easy for anyone to work themselves up. And I, um, think there's a lot of talented people out there, no matter what their background is. But I think that's probably the biggest gap that we have in the industry as a, as a whole. Um, and I think that that's a great opportunity for leaders to kind of dive in and look and see what we can do to make sure that we continue to be uh, diverse, especially when we know there's going to be fewer people. A lot of people are going to be retiring soon.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And so how do we be more representative of the communities that we live and work in?

Speaker A: Well, well said. And I think, you know, especially from the producer side, which is a large job function in our industry, um, historically very white, very male. I think it's getting more female. We, uh, certainly have some, some wonderful, uh, you know, female leaders from the production side here. Um, but it's still pretty white. I don't even know a delicate way to say it. Uh, I'll just, you know, say that it is.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, and um, I think getting more folks educated on like you can have the career you can have. If you're a successful producer, you can make a lot of money. Um, I know producers that fly on private jets. Like, it's like it's not just like a healthy. Goals.

Speaker B: Sorry, Goals.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker C: Remember me?

Speaker A: Yeah. For the record, I don't. Uh, but um, you know, and I, I want to, I want to help, but I don't always know how to help. And I also feel that from our company partners as well, sometimes there's a genuine desire to educate the next generation, make it provide a better pathway, but they don't always know how to help. So I don't know if you have any thoughts or on how to specifically.

Speaker B: So I think a part of it is where are we going to recruit and attract new talent into the industry? There's amazing schools out there, um, at the collegiate levels that have risk management and insurance programs. Once you've committed, you already know that pathway you're going to go. But a lot of people don't really know about this industry and all the different routes and avenues, whether it's a brokerage, a third party administrator, an insurance company, risk M. There's so many different ways you can go that education needs to happen like at the high school level. Right. So getting out to the different communities to tell them about this career path so that maybe they want to go to a school that specializes in it, or maybe they just want to see this as a career path and opportunity So I think it actually starts a little bit more at a foundational level of kind of creating the interest and the flow of people, but then also different leadership programs, I think are a great opportunity. Whether it's from a production perspective or just creating that leadership track and route, um, I think that that's a good way to support creating mentorship programs. But just being truly intentional, um, to support the next level of talent, to create those opportunities, I, uh, think is what we have to really commit to.

Speaker C: I think you said it so well earlier about being a change agent and how important that is. Like, what. What are some of the skills that you've learned over the years to allow for you to be able to really to lean into that position and be that change agent that you're. That you're seeing?

Speaker B: I think it's, um, being confident and using my voice. Um, you know, some of the things that I talked about, uh, through Ermia, for example, those were hallway conversations where people are like, we should do this. I said, okay, I'll go ask the executive director. Like, no, we need to talk. No, we just. Sometimes just have to. Sometimes you just have to act. Sometimes you just have to ask, because if you don't, then you'll never know. And, um, we had a. Last night, we had a women's, um, event. Our moxie event. And the thing that kind of took, like, I took away with was, no just means not yet. And, you know, you have to learn that when you're a producer and things like that, like, you just don't give up. Um, so you have to ask the questions and just do it and not be afraid of what the repercussions are. Um, to take that leap and that step forward.

Speaker C: I love that. That takes so much courage, too. It really does.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Both of you. I, uh, look up to and respect. Ultimately. No, I legitimately mean that. I mean. And I've been at dinners with Katie, and it has not been an inclusive environment at all. And. But, Katie, you're. You got to be smart, too, right? You can't every. Every. Sometimes you have to ride it out.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Or it's a personal decision you have to make. That's not easy because you're also a professional. Right.

Speaker C: I feel like sometimes, too, especially for, um, frankly, I think people who are not white men. It's like, we have to be smarter. We have to be better. We have to, like, show up bigger and like, that. That's a lot to ask.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker C: You know, I think that's part of the problem. Just generally that we see is like, you're expected to be there. We have to prove that we should be there. And I think that's one of the things that we constantly are trying to overcome.

Speaker A: And it's not fair because, like, you have to. It's almost like the extra mile. Like, you. Not only do you have to be. And, uh, I understand. I didn't know that, but I've learned this, right? Like, it's, it's, it's not an inclusive environment. It's not fair. But that's the, that's the current road. Like, you have to be exceptional, Right. To really stand out. Right.

Speaker C: And that's why it's so important to have people like yourself who have that tenacity and are really able to just lean into that and be like, you know what? I'm not asking to do this, I'm doing it.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: You can ask for forgiveness later, but we gotta do this now because that. You have to be that change agent.

Speaker B: Absolutely. But allyship is super important as well. Um, I do it because I have to do it. I have a daughter, she's six years old. I want to make sure that the world. She wants to come into insurance one day, although she wants to be a teacher, which is amazing. But if she wants to come insurance, I want it to be diverse. Right. Like this imaginative world of. It's fully diverse, equitable, that would all be great. And so I'm doing the work to help ensure that happens. But it shouldn't always be on the person who's of the minority to do the work. And so some of your earlier questions. It's got to be on everyone. Everyone's got to be accountable, even in the face of adversity or challenges. It's got to be on everyone to really do that. Um, because we shouldn't always have to fight as hard.

Speaker A: Well, I think you're at a great company and that is a platform to make some change. And I also know, like, we work closely at the institutes with Kate Gillimo and Chris Kahn and both advocates for diversity, wonderful leaders. And, um, I think I speak for Katie and I here. We're huge fans of you and we want to do whatever we can to elevate you and your voice, um, as a true leader, um, not just as a black professional, but as a risk, a thought leader in education. I don't know anybody better. Um, so just the future is bright. We want to help you. So thank you so much.

Speaker B: I appreciate it. And I appreciate the opportunity to have this dialogue to kind of come full circle. Maybe there'll be another circle we come back to in the future. But I really appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker C: Yeah, we love a Venn diagram. Let's add another circle.

Speaker A: Just don't forget us when you get

Speaker C: too high, when you have that private chat, like, please call.

Speaker B: I'm manifesting it now. I am manifesting it now.

Speaker A: They have WI fi. We can record on the pod. On the. On the. On the G5. We love, uh, to.

Speaker B: Let's. Let's make it happen.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Let's make it happen.

Speaker A: Yeah. We will hold that down. Courtney, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, Sam m.