How Customer Experience Builds Loyalty, Trust & Growth - With Gemma Jones

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Smart Connector Podcast which helps entrepreneurs generate more impact, wealth and success, attract others for all the right reasons and become a Smart Connector, the architect of your amazing business and life. This podcast is sponsored by Virtual Non Execs, the world's number one peer to peer board advisor community which connects thousands of investors, entrepreneurs and advisors globally.

Speaker C: Welcome to the Smart Connector Podcast. My name is Jane Baylor and I'm here with a wonderful person today, Gemma Jones. Welcome Gemma.

Speaker A: Thank you Jane. It's lovely um, to be here.

Speaker C: So Gemma is a customer experience expert really. She's been doing this for a very, very long time. She has 20 years experience in sales and marketing, B2B manufacturing, all of those industries, building materials where customer experience is actually critical even though people don't necessarily think that way. So we're going to really get into that today. But also I wanted to say that Gemma is also a client of mine because we started working together, didn't we Gemma, just after you left corporate, it was a real pleasure to see how your offer evolved and I really learned a lot myself about customer experience from gemma, particularly in B2B environments. So we're going to get right into this, but before we do, um, Gemma, tell us a little bit about your time in the employment.

Speaker A: So I um, started, I left university with a business degree and then um, went into marketing initially. So I worked my way up that sort of marketing ladder to marketing director level. But then I also decided to expand my experience across the organization. So I've done trading director roles for example, looking after the P and L. And then customer experience came across my desk as well and I took responsibility for customer experience and that's where I really got frustrated with the lack of sort of frameworks and um, sort of support out there really particularly for sort of non standard industries if you like. So there's lots about customer experience in the mobile phone industry, the building society, you know, and sort of financial industries because they're regulated but very little for everyone else. So my challenges actually became my real passion and sort of developing a team, building a framework. Um, and that's where I really got into the whole customer experience thing as well. So um, I kind of combine my knowledge on all those areas now and the challenges from a client point of view to help businesses with their own CX challenges.

Speaker C: Yeah, and the interesting thing about customer experience is it's not just one of those side topics, is it Gemma? Um, uh, in fact your customer experience a lot of the time is basically how you communicate your brand isn't it. And it's. It's what? It's the be all and the end all of everything, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. I think there's a common misconception that customer experience is just customer service. And then it's the responsibility, the customer service team to look after the customer and everybody else can sort of ignore it. But actually customer experience is that end to end experience. So right from that customer first learning about your brand or even recognizing they've got a need for a product or service like yours right to post purchase. So, um, it's everything. So every single touch point with the customer, um, and every single employee in the organization has a responsibility for customer experience, which is why it's so important that it's very, very much embedded in the, in the strategy of the organization.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's what we were talking about earlier, isn't it Gemma, that this isn't just something that you can hand off and say, you know, to a junior person. Okay, now let's focus on customer experience. It is very much a responsibility that sits with the senior leadership, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think for me it has to be led from the top. You know, that the leadership, you know, you set the culture of the organization, you set the business vis, you decide how the budget is spent. And so, um, you can't just sort of say to some team, oh, do customer experience and then make them fight for the budget. You know, customer experience has to be something that's intrinsic to the business strategy. Um, but you need to support your team as well. So it's a two way thing. And to be able to justify customer experience improvements, for example, you need to empower that team to link the their customer metrics to their business vision. So you know what, what financially, because at the end of the day, we're all in business to make money, aren't we? Or to be profitable. We've got those business goals. So it's about empowering the team to make sure that doing the right thing for the customer, uh, equals improvement in those crucial business metrics.

Speaker C: Um, so Gemma, in terms of you personally, what was it that made you so passionate about this topic? Because I know this isn't just your work. Is it something that you really, really care deeply about? So I' love to hear where all of that started. Really?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think I've always loved the customer side of the business, whether that's in marketing, whether that's in sales, whether it's in the sort of service, um, customer service side. And I think when you see the benefits of improving that customer journey and involving the whole organization, it's really empowering. And one of the really great things about customer experiences is, you know, you very rarely get excellent customer metrics without excellent employee metrics. So actually it's a tool that really improves the motivation and the engagement of the staff because if you empower them to do the right thing for customer, those interactions with customer are much more positive and it's, you know, it's win, win. And so I think from that point of view it is a very sort of people orientated discipline if you like. But equally as I say, there are lots of frustrations out there for businesses. And when I can see businesses struggling in the way I did and I can now help them by giving them a clear framework, supporting them through the process and actually taking some of the sort of mystery away from it as well. And there's lots of jargon out there, um, but actually it can be quite simple if you've got the right support and framework.

Speaker C: Yeah. So tell me about some of the frustrations that you experienced, um, personally when you were on the other side of the fence. Gemma. Rather than helping businesses from the outside get this right.

Speaker A: Yes. I think when you're not looking at the end to end customer journey, what you'd find in any organization, large or small, is that you tend to find that people work in their silos so people stay in their swim lane. So if you're marketing, you know, you're focused on that area. If you're sales, you're focused there. If you're manufacturing operations, you know, you're focused on your swim lane. And what happens is we all think we're doing the right thing for customer. There are very few of us that go into work and, and don't want to do the right thing. But actually if we're not joining that, uh, up, what happens is customers very often feel like they're dealing with almost like different companies. And I've sat in, you know, customer meetings where I walked in to see a customer and they've been really angry and frustrated because somebody in the organization said, oh, that's not me, that's nothing to do with me. You'll have to speak to so and so or oh, that's a different part of the business, that's not me. And obviously from a customer perspective perspective, you're all one brand, you're all one business. Yeah, you know, so, so, um, it's about businesses joining the dots for the customer behind the scenes to make sure that Experience is really seamless. We use the word seamless a lot. But actually it really is, is critical because we all like to deal with businesses that are easy to deal with, don't we? You know, when you think about your favorite brands or experiences, it's that ease, it's that seamless journey. And so actually being able to bring those, all those functions together and get everybody understanding what happens to the customer throughout the whole customer journey really helps you to identify what matters most to the customer, where you can make the most impactful, um, improvements. And you bring everybody along then. So you work in like a collective organization rather than a set of departments, all trying to do the best as they see it.

Speaker C: Yeah. In that fragmented way. Because this is why it's so critical to. Well, it is brand, isn't it? Customer experience is brand because it's the consistent expectation that a customer has in their minds about what they're going to get when they spend that money or invest that, you know, time, effort or whatever into you. And how can you possibly have that if you have the situation that you describe? It's impossible, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think more and more now, um, even in B2B, for example, I've seen a real shift even since the sort of COVID times because B2B was sort of left behind a little bit previous to that. So there was a lot of talk about customer experience and digital and that sort of those high expectations that we have as consumers. But we were almost expected to leave those at the door when we went into the workplace and accept that, oh, we were still sending faxes or, you know, if things were a bit more tricky or you had to learn how to deal with companies. And I think because we all went far more digital in that period nowadays we, we definitely compare our experiences as a, as a private consumer with those experiences we have at work. So there's no excuse anymore. Every single business, your customer is expecting you to understand what they need, deliver it really quickly, really effortlessly. So, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really, a really, really good point, Gemma, because as you said, businesses are made up of people. People are having experiences of, uh, smooth, easy customer experience and customer experience where there's friction all the time. Every day we're out there, aren't we? Buying stuff, consuming stuff, having experience and exposure of different brands. So how can it not affect us, as you said, when we go to work Makes perfect sense.

Speaker A: Sorry, Jane. We know that, you know, we, we like to talk about positive experiences as well as consumers now we do also like to talk about negative experiences. And unfortunately, human nature, particularly in the UK culture, is that we tend to, if we have a bad experience, we tell twice as many people about it as we do the good experiences. So, you know, we all love. And obviously social media now is kind of exploded that, hasn't it? You know, so rather than telling a few people, um, you know, that you might be working with or living with now, it's like you tell everybody, your entire network, but equally, you know, 72% of consumers, for example, will tell positive experiences to at least six people. And if you think about that in the workplace as well, that's really, really powerful. You know, if you're telling your peers, your colleagues, your network, and it's, it's actually a really brilliant way to organically grow your customer base as well. So lots of people, you know, we spend a lot money on marketing, um, and selling to customers and trying to acquire new customers, but actually sometimes we forget that advocacy piece. And it works just as brilliantly in a B2B environment as it does in a B2C. So you've got that really positive influence of not only pleasing that current customer and increasing their revenue that they spend with you, but also them being a real advocate for your brand. And I've had some clients who really, um, increased their advocacy by working with customers, asking for those recommendations and really growing their client base in that way.

Speaker C: And of course, anybody that, uh, has come from a marketing and sales background, as I have, and you have, we all know that acquiring a new customer is much more expensive than retaining a, an existing customer. That is the fastest way to grow the profits of any business is to look after your existing customers and give them such an amazing experience that they can't wait to come back for more. And as you said, they're going to be loyal advocates. It is really something that I would have thought no company should be overlooking today.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, Gemma, in terms of good examples and bad examples of customer. Customer experience, let's look first of all at the, at the B2C space. So the consumer environments, do you have any particular favorites there when you come to a, uh, you know, a way your favorite brand treats their customers, for example?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think there are some really good examples out there. And I often try and take it away from kind of like my, my area of expertise. Let's, let's move, let's move away from sort of manufacturing and building materials and things. B2C, you know, a really good example, Ritz Carlton. So the luxury hotel chain. So most people have heard of them, even if they haven't stayed with them. And some of the things that they do are really around that personalization to the client, so they really get to understand their customers, um, and what makes them tick. And I think that that really, um, helps because it really enhances the experience when you're there in their hotel. So, you know, when you walk into a hotel, if. If those. Those people know your name for a start, but also know, you know, what you like to drink, maybe you know, how you like the room set up, what sort of excursions you might want to go on. I was on a call the other day, and, um, a chap was saying that he'd actually booked Ritz Carlton to take his wife away. And they'd sort of asked him questions at the start, and he'd not really thought about, um, the questionnaire he'd filled in. You know, just sort of like, you know, filled it in, forgotten about it. But then when they arrived in resort, you know, there was sort of like a live sort of quartet sort of playing music for them. And it was all personalized to his wife, and she. And she thought he'd done all that, and he was like, you know, the best husband in the world. And actually, they'd done that, you know, based on the questions that they asked in a really sort of simple, you know, unintrusive way. But it really enhanced the experience. Like, me and him look like the best husband in the world. It made her think, oh, this is brilliant. You know, he's done all this for me. And of course, the client experience was just out of this world. And they really go to town on that. And one of the key things that they do is empower their team. So one of the things they do is each staff member, um, they have a $2,000, um, allowance that they can use to make guest experiences really special so they don't have to ask permission. So if I walk in, for example, and perhaps, I don't know, I'm with the kids, and one of the kids has lost a favorite teddy bear. They could actually, you know, get someone to go out and buy a replacement. They don't have to ask a manager and get it signed off and all that sort of stuff. They can just use that to really make my day. Absolutely. Awesome. And I think whatever. You know, a lot of other luxury hotels do this as well. I mean, one of my favorite hotels is Gleneagles up in Scotland. You know, we've had some lovely stays there. And again, the Staff, when you walk in, you know, greet you by name and, you know, we got married up in Scotland and when we walked in, we actually got hugged by the guy on that, you know, he was like, married, you know. But it's just that, uh, it's that empowerment of staff to do the right thing for customers. So I think they're really good examples where actually that empowerment creates those fantastic experiences and they encourage their staff to. They actually say they're ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen, which sounds a bit archaic, but it kind of gets the point across, doesn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah. And, and as you said, it's congruent with their, uh, brand. I mean, nobody expects them, that they're not kind of trendsetters, are they? You know, you go there because you expect something that is traditional but really special. So, yeah, it's congruent. And what about, what about bad examples, Gemma? Is there, uh, are there any bad examples of, of, uh, customer experience that you think, you know, what if I could get in there, if I could tell them what to do, I would definitely tell them to do X differently.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, to be honest, that, uh, I come across them all, you can imagine doing what I do, and, you know, there's lots of people. You only have to go on LinkedIn to see everybody sort of ranting about bad experiences. I think it is where the company just seemed to lose track of what experience the customer's having. And I hate to mention the sort of really super big brands and things, but for me, like Amazon are a good example of bad and good. So I think, you know, in terms of their returns, for example, it's so easy to return to them and they do one of the things I always recommend, which is they trust customers first. So if I don't want something any longer, I can just package it up, send it back to Amazon and they'll immediately credit my account. Now, if they get that product back and it's not what it should be, then they'll take it back off. But they're trusting me first as a customer. They make it super easy. But then on the other hand, I've had a very sim. So I've had a very different experience with Amazon whereby their drivers keep trying to drive through my front garden to deliver to the village. And we live in a bit of an out there, you know, we're a bit in the sticks. But they are convinced, even though it's not on any kind of map, that they can drive through the garden. They can't. They get Stuck. I've had them reverse into ponds and all sorts of things, but it is impossible to speak to anybody about it, you know, and I've tried to. I've tried all the different ways to communicate with them. And then, you know, when I finally got through to someone, they were in a call center in a different country, and they were clearly reading from a script. So, you know, they kept saying things like, oh, they're terribly sorry, or having these problems, but they weren't actually answering my issue. And so I think companies get it wrong. But I would say if there's anywhere where consistently we get it wrong for the customer is where we lose sight of them as an individual, what their needs are at that point and what they're going through. And so that, that, you know, you can see that across probably just about every bad customer experience you've had when you think about it.

Speaker C: Yeah, and there's. There's such a, uh, clear difference there. So on the one hand, when you were talking about the hotels, you feel as though right from the start, there's somebody that knows you and understands you. Whereas in the example that you were talking about, Gemma, when somebody said, oh, I'm so sorry, you had that experience, really. So you had that experience, but without actually offering any kind of a solution or really reflecting back at you their understanding of why you weren't happy then. It's all to do with attention, isn't it, really?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And understanding that customer. And I think that's why we talk a lot in customer experience about personalization as well. So the more you can know your customer, um, you know, and them as an individual. And that's why, obviously, CRM is so key in this. But, you know, know your customer as an individual, um, then it empowers your, Your staff to know what's important for them because, you know, we're all different. And, you know, people might, you know, put customers in the same bucket in terms of, oh, oh, you know, they're both similar age, similar, you know, demographic, you know, they shop in the same. But actually, we might want completely different things in terms of experience. So it really is understanding, um, those customer needs. And that's where obviously, your employees come in. Because, yes, some people can invest in hugely expensive CRM systems to identify individuals and needs and record it. But equally, smaller businesses do a phenomenal job because their employees really get to know and understand their customers and really treat them like individuals. And that's hugely powerful.

Speaker C: Yeah. So why is it that you think, you know, B2B has taken such a long time to catch up, Gemma, because, um, of course, in B2B environments, customers are worth a lot more typically, aren't they, than in B2C environments? So do you think that it is for that reason that people just think, oh, you know what, it's just to do with personal relationships and there doesn't have to be any frameworks or any protocol in place. Is it that, that or are there other reasons why organizations have ignored this issue for quite a long time?

Speaker A: I, I think there's a few things. I think traditionally it was, um, we perhaps had fewer choices in, in B2B, you know, if you went into a department and they already purchased from M1 Company, sometimes it was very difficult to move away from that, particularly if there were sort of, lots of golf days and, and incentives and all that sort of stuff thrown around. But I think, you know, businesses have moved away from that quite a lot and legislation and rules have changed around all that as well. So I think there's less of a. That sort of network now, I think, and anybody, you know, procurement teams now are really professional and of course they've got the Internet as well. They're comparing all the deals and the offers, you know, so there's much greater visibility about alternatives that are out there. And even if they're not actually viable alternatives, certainly leverage in terms of understanding the different prices and being able to sort of use that in negotiation. But I think the other thing is B2B, we often have quite complex routes to market as well. So instead of just dealing directly to your end consumer, you know, in my previous roles, I've been dealing with distributors, I've been dealing with installers, I've been dealing with, um, you know, sometimes people like architects or contractors, and you're dealing with homeowners, sort of end consumers like, like URI and end users for products as well. So it's much more complex to try and understand all those different routes to market and what all those different customers in the chain need. Um, but equally we know from, with our marketing hats on, that very often we have to market to people that we aren't transacting with. So I might actually be transacting with a distributor and selling my product to them, but actually I'm marketing my product to the end user or the installer. Uh, so it's quite a complex thing to track if you haven't got the frameworks. And again, that's why, you know, I was so passionate about developing what I do in terms of creating those clear frameworks. Creating those clear ways to journey, map complex routes to market and then helping businesses to just understand, right, okay, well, what matters most to the customer? Uh, where are the biggest issues and really focusing on that. So it's, you're not trying to sort of eat the cake all at once if you like. You're really focusing on where, where the best return on investment is.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you know, you make a, uh, very important point. Return on investment. As you said, everybody's in business to make money. That is very, very important. And your work has consistently proven to achieve a very good ROI for businesses who have actually taken this seriously. Isn't that right, Gemma? Um, um, yeah.

Speaker A: I mean there's lots of different examples really. I mean one that springs to mind is where we've got real issues with communication around customer. But it's only when you start to map the customer journey and look from the customer's point of view that you start to see where the real frustration is. But you start to then understand, for example, why are all these customers ringing the call center constantly? Why are we getting these huge volumes of calls, particularly at certain times in the week? And by really understanding that, uh, and by then looking to automate some of the most simple communications. So for example, in this day and age, you really shouldn't have customers ringing you up saying, when's my delivery going to arrive? Because we can automate that. You know, we can text them, we can, we can make it really, really simple. So actually having people answer the phone to tell them that is a real waste. But you've got to kind of identify where these issues are first. And then what we did with this company was, uh, we introduced some real simple messaging and automation around those deliveries. So we made it really clear to customers when they were going to get products, um, and made sure the communications were hitting at the right time. And that took the calls into that call center down by 25%, which really meant four fewer heads. But this is not about making people redundant. What the business decided to do was to utilize those people to then create added value. So use them to sell, use them to advise customers on sort of technical applications and things where a human adds real value. So the ROI on that project was about 500%. So it was a, it was an absolute no brainer because, you know, not only are you reducing costs by, by implementing it, but you're actually increasing the revenue by utilizing those people better. And uh, so you can have some real wins like that. Um, there are lots of cost savings when you start to analyze that customer journey as well. Because when you start to look at what really matters to the customer now, you often find that you're still doing loads of things for customers that they really don't value anymore. You know, legacy stuff, processes that have just always been there, um, and no one's really questioned. And when you know what really matters to the customer, you can really review those internal processes and take some of the fat out there as well. And again, improves it for customer, it improves it for employees. You usually find employees working with the process. They, oh, you can. We should have done that years ago. You know, why, why have we never done that? But if you don't ask, you very often don't get so real opportunities to save cost as well. In terms of roi. And as I said at the start, it's so important that we make sure we're linking those improvements for customer to those business metrics. Because if you walk to the board meeting with the CEO and your fd, you know, they don't just want to know that the CSAT's gone up or the NPS has gone up, it's the. So what, what does that mean, um, in terms of the bottom line, what does that mean for the long term success of the organization?

Speaker C: Well, totally, Gemma and I think that your client side experience has been invaluable in that respect because you know that this is all about, there has to be a business case for what you do and it really isn't just the fluffy stuff as people often say about marketing. Oh yeah, it's all about, you know, prettiness and, you know, making things nice. It's not about. That is actually, it is about saving money and making money at the end of the day and making it more sustainably, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that the thing is, you know, it's, it's really, you know, we know the economy is difficult and looks to be heading through more difficulties every time you switch the news on. But you know, I think wherever you are, it's always a challenge, um, in terms of businesses and looking at that long term future. And I think, you know, if you compete on price, obviously it's always a race to the bottom. Other people can replicate that. Ah, even if you've got a really unique product, other people, there's nothing stopping other people saying that it's as good as your product. Even if it isn't. You have to spend a lot of money marketing and promoting that to get your messaging across. And even then people can replicate, um, and sometimes, and again particularly in B2B, people will still accept that your products are best, but go elsewhere because they're under pressure to reduce costs. So actually, the way to really differentiate brands long term is to build those really lasting relationships and knowing your customer really, really well, knowing what makes them tick, and it's just delivering consistently time after time after time as well. I think that there's a bit of, um, a misunderstanding about customer experience that we talk about this customer excellence and people do talk about these amazing excitement experiences, you know, where, where a company really goes over and above all the time and it's just incredible. No one can really sustain that constantly. What outstanding customer experience is really about is having a really clear promise to the customer. What is it that we're promising to you? What are you paying your money for? And you deliver that really, really well and consistently time after time after time. And, and that's our outstanding customer experience. And then as a customer, that makes me think, oh, well, uh, I know that other products a little bit cheaper, but am I really going to take the risk, you know, for a little bit of cost saving when actually I know if I go with this company that I'm going to be able to deliver my project, it's going to make me look good. I've got absolute confidence that it's the right products, it's the right, it's the right supplier. So, so it's, it's that lasting relationship and that trust and loyalty that really creates that brand differentiation for me.

Speaker C: Absolutely, Gemma. You know, I couldn't say it any better. You know, trust, loyalty, differentiation, a consistent expectation of that quality, experience. It's what it's all about, isn't it, really? That is what success looks like.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you know, as I say, it's proven time and time again in businesses, um, where you improve that customer experience. Experience, um, and you do absolutely see the results, you know, in B2B, um, I've proven that customers who are promoters, so they score you a 9 or a 10 in NPS, for example, spend 20% more, um, in pound note terms than customers who are scoring you a 7 or an 8 because, you know, they repeat purchase from you, uh, they give you more of the basket, you know, they'll buy the accessories and the sundries from you. Many of them stop questioning the price because, you know, they just know it's the right product, it's the right business to deal with on the job. So there's absolutely the, the sort of financial incentive there to improve the customer experience as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, so, so Gemma, uh, you know, if you are, uh, if somebody is listening into this and they are senior leadership in a business, large or small, they may be thinking, well, is this for me? Maybe our business is too small? Or maybe this is just for big businesses getting somebody in like you to do a strategic review and then, and then give us some frameworks. What is, what is the ideal size or the typical size of a business that you can help and why?

Speaker A: I think, uh, you know, the point about customer experience is you can use it with a small business. So, you know, smaller businesses, yeah, you might not have consultants, you know, in to help you. But actually I developed um, an online learning module course. So it's 12 modules, um, and I support that, uh, with calls and things. So actually for smaller businesses you can take yourself through some of the simple steps because if you've got a much smaller team, um, it's easier to sort of get people in a room and to work on the process. And you can do this in a really simple way. You know, you start small, you can track your customer journey and then you can build upon that, uh, when you've got the confidence and when you've got all your stakeholders bought in. For slightly larger organizations, um, where you've got a number of different departments or different branches or stores, for example, then it is often worth getting someone in just to support you with that framework and perhaps running some of the workshops to galvanize the team at the start because obviously you need to win people over, uh, and the team need to understand, you know, these are bright people you've got there, um, but they're all coming from their different understanding of the customer. So actually bringing them in and galvanizing them a bit with some exercises is always useful. But I always recommend that, you know, businesses, if you've got sort of, you know, around about 100 people upwards, getting a CX champion team together is a really valuable thing to do. So get a group of people from the different functions and bring them together to work on um, your customer experience piece, you know, so that there's real buy in across the organization and then you can work with someone like myself or you can do, you know, some, some sort of online modules, however you decide to do it. But um, yeah, it's always good to get a group of people cross functionally in the, in the business to make the start. But one of the things I do is I offer a free CX health check, I call it, before I work with people. And what that does is it allows you to benchmark m your organization against CX best practice before you take the leap. Because all businesses are at different stages. Some people say, oh, we've got a customer promise, but it's not actually. It's a business vision. It's you telling everybody what you're doing. It's not you telling the customer the what's in it for me. But that health check allows you to kind of see where the gaps are, uh, see where the priorities could be for your business. And so you know that if you do then decide to explore more, you're confident that you look in the right places, um, and focusing where you're going to get the best return.

Speaker C: Yeah. So for anybody that's listening, if you're in the leadership team of a business or perhaps you own a business, large or medium sized or small, the message is really clear that customer experience is something that is going to drive up your profitability, your customer loyalty, your overall perception of your brand. And it's not going to cost you, it's it. There will be obviously some cost in the short term, but as Gemma said, she's got some online resources, so you can just take her online resources and then run with it with a little bit of support from her, or she can do a full audit and consultancy if you have the resources to kind of do that and maybe the complexity in the business. So wherever you are in terms of your own business journey, then customer experience is something that cannot be ignored. And Gemma is here to help, right?

Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. And always happy to just chat with people as well. Um, it's just questions about customer experience. I think sometimes it helps for people to put it into context and get that understanding.

Speaker C: Yeah. So before, before we wrap up, Gemma, I'd just like to talk about your experience obviously of us working together and really about, um, how it was for you making that transition really from, you know, your, your Many, many years, 20 years experience in corporate, working in, as you said, kind of different departments as a professional and with all that expertise and then actually going out there and launching your own services. Tell us all about that journey and why it was that you sought some help from me and what that experience was like.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, I think I'd, um, You know, as I've said, I went into that sort of business and then, and that career side early on and I've absolutely loved it, you know, and I've had some amazing experiences in the, in the corporate side, but I think I'd got to that stage where, you know, the kids were a little bit older, which gives you a little bit more freedom because still costs you a fortune. No one warns you. Oh, yeah, massive. I think it gets easier when you got. Get older. It doesn't, no. But, you know, it gave me that little bit more freedom in terms of timing and things as well. And, and, and I just got to that point in my career where I really wanted to focus on the, on the areas that, that I was really, really passionate about. Um, and so it was the right time for me to sort of move and do something different. Different. But it is, it's quite a leap. It's a huge leap and I think it's been amazing and I've learned so much. I think you get to a level in organizations sometimes where you spend a lot of your time managing others, leading others, making sure everybody else has got the development they need and all the things around them. And you spend a lot of time meetings and actually when you start your own business and it's just you, there is no one to fall back on. There is no, you know, it expert to. Or, you know, social media expert to just do this or just do that. For me, it's all on you, which has been brilliant. Um, I think I learned more in that first six months than I'd learned in a long, long time. You know, the gray matter m going again. But at the same time, it's quite daunting because you've gone from being this. The part of this big thing to it's literally just you. And you wake up in the morning, you think, gosh, right, what do I do next? Because it's all on me now. You know, whether. Whether the sort of paycheck comes in or not, it's all on me. And I think the reason I found it really helpful to seek your advice, Jane. And I think, you know, people think, well, you're. You've got m marketing background. Why do you need support from somebody else? But it's a very different thing marketing a brand and marketing a big organization. So I used to do loads of social media. I set up, you know, Facebook pages when it first came out for installs and all that sort of stuff. But when it's about you and, um, when it's about your sort of personal branding and your business, it's a very, very different thing. So it's very different to marketing an organization and, um, you know, speaking up at a conference about a brand that you're passionate about and that, you know, in the product ranges. When it's about you and your Personal offering. Um, I think that's where I found it really, really helpful to have your help and advice. And again, I talked about frameworks. For me, I think that's what you gave me was a framework to work to. And when you've got so much in your head and so much excitement about this new business and so much learning, having a clear framework and someone saying, right, what we need to do next is, is. Or you know, the Met M, you know, you need to develop that messaging and, and it just takes a lot of the noise out. I think when you've been in big corporate for a long time, you over complicate things because there are so many steps to everything and so many different ways. And when you're running a small business or if you know your own business, it's much simpler. But one of the hardest things is to create that simplicity. You know, it's um, it's a real skill. So I think that's where having someone who'd been through that had a really clear framework for me to work from understood the challenges that I was going through at the time was just massive. Yeah, it really, really helped. And anyone who knows me knows that I wouldn't say that if I didn't mean it either. We Yorkshire spoke a very, very honest and straightforward, um, but yeah, it was a huge help to me at the time. I think it really, it really helped me to just sort of launch myself into it and have that confidence.

Speaker C: That's amazing, Gemma. And as I said, it was such a pleasure to support you on your journey. And in fact, um, you know, you also came via, uh, one of my other clients, didn't you? Who also achieved success. Ah. And he'd been in exactly the same position as well. And um, I really do think that's when, you know, people need it most because it is very, very different working within an organization. And as you said, even though you had the, you know, the marketing and the sales background, I mean, that was great for me because there were so many things that instinctively you understood. Once we started working together, it's like, yeah, you know, and it all clicked into place very, very quickly. But it's just very different running a campaign for a large organization with a large budget and a whole team you can delegate to, to actually putting together an offer, uh, that revolves around you, your expertise and you know, you're something that you're very, very passionate about. It is very different. And um, you know, it's uh, it is important, I think, just to have some help along the way. It just gives you that head start, doesn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think even if you've got lots of, you know, friends, I was, you know, I'm very fortunate. Lots of friends and family and peers, ex colleagues and things helping you. But very often people by the very nature, sort of tell you what you want to hear. And I think having someone who perhaps doesn't know you, but knows what you're trying to achieve, just get that clarity of vision and you hear what you need to hear, um, as well as, you know, then getting, you know, getting all the support. I mean, I know you, you sent me some very supportive messages and sometimes, you know, just having you at the end of the year, uh, you know, at the end of the line just to sort of bounce things off or, you know, am I on the right track? You know, uh, how, how did you get over this initial problem was really helpful. So, yeah, definitely, if anybody's thinking of leaving corporate, yeah, definitely, uh, recommend a conversation with yourself. Jay.

Speaker C: Oh, thank you so much, Gemma. That's been so lovely. Well, I have to say that it has been an absolute pleasure really, to kind of dive deep into this amazing field of customer experience and the whole CX thing, you know, with you, Gemma, today. Thank you so much for joining us. And if anybody wants to get in touch with you and maybe, you know, get, get you to take a look at their business, um, what's the best way for them to contact you, gemma?

Speaker A: I'm on LinkedIn, but also, um, I've got a website, so StellacX, you can book a call with me on there, um, or there are contact details on there so you can, uh, get in touch and yeah, we can chat about customer experience.

Speaker C: Yeah. And if you're, if you're listening into this on the podcast and that will be in the show notes as well. So thank you so much, Gemma. It's been so great to have it, Jane.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Jane Bader is the Smart Connector, a London based, passionate serial entrepreneur, uh, brand marketer and business growth exploder who helps overlooked and undervalued consultants and sector experts generate consistent scalable revenues through becoming the go to choice of their dream clients. If you've enjoyed this episode, we'd really appreciate you liking, rating and reviewing the podcast on the platform you've heard it on. And check out the links in the show notes if you'd like to connect with Jane or any of her guests in person. Thank you for listening and come back soon.