544: Say "Yes And" to Change

Speaker A: Welcome to the Selling show where we unpack, repack, and break down exactly how CEOs, founders and senior executives sell their ideas, point of view and personal brand to the people who matter most. This is your host, David Newman. And you are in the right place if you want to build market eminence, amplify your influence and attract high value prospects, investors, partners, talent and media opportunities with less chasing and more confidence. Let's go. All right, my friends, I hope you're ready. I hope you're sitting down. You are in for a real treat. If you've ever come across resistance, if you've ever come across, let's say, uh, not a smooth road ahead, whether it's in sales, whether it's in leadership, whether you're an executive, whether you're an entrepreneur, the obstacles of people just not giving a crap about something that's important to you. I want you to get ready for my next guest, Mr. Avish, uh, Parashar. Welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you very much, David. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker A: So the new book, we got to get people this book into as many people's hands listening right now as possible is say yes and to Change. And I love the subtitle of your book as well. How to harness Change, Unlock brilliance, and Transform apathy into Excitement. And this is true, I'm guessing personally, professionally, uh, in a corporate setting, in an entrepreneurial setting. For the people that don't know you, for the small, tiny handful of people, one person, the one person listening who's like, avish, uh, who now. Yeah. Could you share with us a little bit about the professional journey that brought you to the work that you're doing today, and then we'll dig into some of the big ideas in the book.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So, uh, I'll try to keep this as brief as possible because we're talking about 30 years. But, uh, I started doing improv comedy in college just for fun. You know, I. I did theater in high school, but when I went to college, it's like, look, you're gonna be an engineer. You don't have time. You got to focus on your studies. And then improv came along and, well, that was the end of that. So after college, you know, people had told me that, oh, you're good at this. You're going to keep trying performing. And I hadn't even considered it then. I was like, oh, yeah, maybe I should do that. So after college, I started my own improv group in Philly with the dream of turning it into, like, the second City. Of Philadelphia didn't happen. But since that was my goal, I started reading and immersing myself through that process on every book on leadership, on goal setting, on marketing, on business. And I started seeing these parallels between what I was teaching in improv comedy and what people are saying and what I was seeing in terms of business growth and personal success. So, you know, when I decided it was time to move on from the improv group, I kind of had in my head the idea of being a speaker and a trainer. And I didn't know what else to do with my life at that point. So I said, all right, let's launch this business. And that was 03, and this is now 2026. So, uh, it's been a long time, but that is what I do now. And I really honed in on this one idea from improv comedy called, uh, yes, and which is one of the first things you learn is the difference between yes and. And yes, but. And honestly, uh, I saw most people who are talking about it in the real world having a very limited point of view with yes and M. It's very much a creativity technique. You come up with an idea. I say yes, and let me add to that which works in improv, but as I dug deeper, you know, that doesn't work in the real world. So. Well, I can't always agree with your idea, but I realized it was a perspective. It's. Am I seeking first to, you know, to use covey. Am I seeking first to understand or to be understood? Um, am I looking to dig deeper or show you my point of view? And, and that's the idea that everyone resonated with. So that's kind of where the speaking business is now. It's really showing the idea of yes and, and how organizations and individuals can use it specifically with change. So change isn't just something to get through, but it's something to kind of leverage and, and build off of.

Speaker A: Now, you mentioned in the beginning part of the book that, uh, there's kind of four different Personas that you wrote the book for. One is the change leader. One is the change weary employee M. One is the improv curious or. Yes and curious the way you just explained it. And then there's also the yes, but skeptic, Walk us through just very briefly what those four different reader Personas are and how. What, what light bulb moments they're likely to have from some of these ideas.

Speaker B: Sure. So the change yearning leader is, uh, I honestly believe, you know, we have a cynical view of management leadership sometimes Uh, I honestly believe most managers and leaders come from a good place and they want the best of their people. And frankly, the people I want to work with are the leaders who want the best for their people. And I think there are leaders out there that when they see a change, they, they believe in their people more than people believe in themselves. They just don't know how to get them there. And I think the light bulb moment they're going to have is that it's not about dictation, it's about engagement. So. Yes, but is very much about. Oh, yeah, but let me tell you why you can do this and let me show you this PowerPoint slide about this change, why it's going to be so good for you versus the yes. And like, let me talk to you, let me engage you, let me ask you questions. And that's what the leader is going to take out of it. The change. Weary employee is the employee who has change constantly thrust upon them. Reorg. Oh, uh, we're going to roll out new values, new technology, new regulation. And they're just exhausted. Which is what leads to sort of the third point about apathy is they just get apathetic about it. Like, I don't. They're not resisting anymore. They just don't care. And so what I hope that person will take away is some ideas and techniques they can use to shift their apathy and weariness into excitement. Like, look at it in a different way. This is an opportunity, but not in like a rah rah. Everything is great. But what are some small steps you can take to start embracing and using the change? And the, the last two are pretty straightforward. The improv. Curious. Is there just people out there that like the idea of improv or. Yes. And they heard about it and they want to learn more about it. This is the book for you. And finally, the yes, but skeptic. Um, I think even in the book I say I don't really care. Like, read the book. Uh, I'm not trying to argue with you. There are some people that come in predisposed to not believe in this. Um, I hope that by reading the book I will change your mind to give it a try. Um, but right now I'm like, these are the ideas as presented. You can't please all the people all the time. If you're a skeptic and you're just looking for something to tear apart, great, Tear it apart. You know, you're still reading the book and I appreciate that.

Speaker A: So I love so many things about this book. Avish, some of it is specifically around busting some myths. Uh, either busting some myths or democratizing and popularizing some management and leadership ideas in plain English that almost everyone can understand. Understand. So in the second category, you do a really masterful job in explaining without a whole lot of dense psychological language, why change feels so hard. Share with us some of the, uh, some of the reasons that you write about, about why does change feel so hard for most mere humans?

Speaker B: Well, change, we're sort of wired to not change. You know, going back, sort of psychologically, change usually meant danger. Right. You leave your cave, you come back and oh look, that branch wasn't there before. Why? And then, oh, maybe a tiger like knocked it over. Maybe there's an opposing tribe and they're like whatever. So our brains are getting wired to notice change and look at as get your defenses up. Uh, the world has changed, but our minds are slow to evolve. So we're sort of wired to look at change as something to be cautious of.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Number two, it's just the world we live in is just more and more overstimulated. So we are just, it's, it's not even resistance, it's cognitive overload when you just don't have time. When you, your mind is so full of all the change going on around you and all the things that are being asked of you and just the way the world and economy is going, we're constantly being asked to do more and more with less and less couple that now where we all have these brilliant mega computers in our pocket, where it is so much easier to shift into an apathetic mode and scroll for an hour versus engaging or being quiet or shutting down. So just our minds are not ready for change because it's easier to shut down to protect yourself than to actually look at the change and try to lean into it.

Speaker A: One of the things that I found, again, this is sort of the macro concept behind the book. Uh, one of the things I found really enlightening is when anyone, a salesperson, a leader, an entrepreneur, an executive, a department head, they're trying to push through a change, the first thing in their mind is they're aware that change is hard.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But they're expecting resistance and how to overcome resistance and how to beat down resistance and all of this convincing and persuading and sweating around. How do I get people not to resist this idea? And you, you brilliantly put. And I've observed this now that you've shown me. I've observed this in many, many Situations. The real enemy here is not active resistance. Could you tell us what it is and how to fight that real enemy?

Speaker B: Sure, absolutely. Um, yeah. Resistance is not the real enemy because when someone is resisting, they're still engaged. They're. They care. They're trying, They're. They're contributing. The real enemy of change is apathy, because, number one, uh, resistance is visible. You can do something about it. Number two, like I said, that person cares with apathy. Apathy often presents as compliance. We. We don't know it's there because it's stereotypical, right? You think of apathy, you think of someone's rolling their eyes across their arms or huffing, and you know that happens. But really, apathy is more just someone sitting there with their pen in their hand, just listening to you. And when you tell them, oh, here's a change, you say, okay, because they just don't care. They don't have the energy or emotion to argue, even if they think it's a terrible idea. And we've all been there. I've had plenty of ideas where I've been, like, sure, that's fine. Like, I don't care. It's not worth it to argue. That's the real issue, because you don't even know it's there. And this is what leads to, like, what. What are the trendy terms these days? Quiet, quitting, right? That's not resistance. That's apathy. The Gen Z stare. Not resistance. Apathy, Right? Burnout. Checking out all this stuff that lowers productivity, you know? And then all of a sudden, someone leaves for another job, and you're like, oh, I didn't even know they weren't. Weren't happy. Like, it's harder to spot. So it's also the greatest opportunity because if you think of, like, a standard distribution bell curve, you've got, like, 10% of your people are actively resisting, and you notice them because the squeaky wheel. But really, for every one person who's resisting, you've got, like, five or 10 people that are just sort of checked out, you know, uh, we. As speakers and you. I don't know if you. I mean, you work in a slightly different market. Um, but we love the Gallup polls, right? It's like every year, and it came out again this year, and the numbers about the same. The percentage of employee US employees that are disengaged is 70, 69%, 52% disengaged, 17% actively disengaged. That's the bell curve, right? It's like. But you're going to focus on that resistor, which is a pain in the butt too. They're hard to change. So it's harder to change not the real problem. And you have much greater opportunity trying to re engage your kind of disengage people.

Speaker A: So smart. So smart. And I totally agree. All right, hang on. We gotta back up the truck here. Beep beep, beep, beep. Do you have a copy of my new book, Market Eminence? No. Well, you can grab that. It's available in audio, paperback and kindle@marketeminence.com. that's right, my friends. Market Eminence.com. go check it out and then come right back to this episode. So smart. So smart. And I totally agree. One of the things that you talk about with the parallel of the yes and mindset, uh, as far as an improv game. Yes and yes and is an offer is what you write about. And all change is also some form of an offer. Talk about this concept of an offer and how that works in improv and then how that translates into change leadership.

Speaker B: Sure. So an improv in offer is a very general term. Um, but an offer is anything you are offering to the scene, to your partner. It could be a line of dialog, something you say, an action you take. Because in improv, since you're co creating in the moment, anything you do, you're offering to the scene. Like, here's how I'm adding to this. And there are strong offers and weak offers. And you know, that's like an improv theory. What makes a strong offer versus a weak offer. But everything's an offer. And a lot of times what makes an offer work or not work is not the strength of the offer itself, but how the other person responds to it. So you could give me the most interesting offer that you could. We could be doing a scene and you could make this really interesting offer. It turns out that you're a paid hitman that has only become friends with me over the last year to kill me. And if I'm like, oh, uh, that's fine. I kind of been looking to die anyways, like, funny line deflates the scene. It's not going to go anywhere now. Right. But you give me a totally mundane offer like, oh, Avish, I brought you a cup of coffee. And I could be like, coffee, David, you know I'm allergic to coffee. Why would you be trying to feed me coffee knowing that now all of a sudden I've created interest from a mundane offer. Okay, now translate that to the real world. All I'm, um, not one of these people says, every change is good. Right. That's just Pollyanna. Like, uh, hey, it's all going to be great. Some change is bad, some is terrible. But all change is an offer. And like an improv, it really comes down to how you respond to it. And if you respond with a yes, but that's deflating it, that's creating negativity, and that's not allowing you to move forward and innovate and unlock your own brilliance. If you respond to it with a yes, and then you can start really, that's how you start harnessing change. When you look at it as an offer, not just something to sort of get through and push past.

Speaker A: And as far as a mindset shift, I think some people, cynical people, who we don't like, we don't like cynical people. But if cynical people read this book, I think they're in for, um, a little bit of a wake up call. Cynical people will say, avish, I can't say yes and to everything because I don't know how it's going to turn out. Right. Um, what I'm saying yes to is this big giant question mark. So you have a section in the book that talks, I think, somewhat brilliantly about the power of stepping into uncertainty. What do we gain when we step into uncertainty?

Speaker B: Well, the sort of clever answer to that question is, I don't know. And that's the point. So in improv you learn that in the uncertainty is where the magic happens. And there's a whole embarrassing story in the book about this terrible improv show we did where we all sort of had the ending in mind, so there was no uncertainty, which made the whole exercise terrible. Um, but when you. The whole reason we don't want to step into uncertainty is because we don't know what's going to happen. But think about it. If you have a goal you've been trying to achieve for a long time, just can't quite figure it out, or a problem, you're like, I don't know how to solve this thing. The answer, by definition, is in the unknown. Because if it was in the realm of what you know and are certain about, you wouldn't have the problem anymore or you'd have achieved the goal.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So if we want to innovate, if we want to find opportunity and change, we want to do things differently. We have to step into the uncertainty. Number one, like I said, that's where the new stuff is. And number two, that forces you to be creative and I think, as I say in the book, I think all people have an inner creative genius. Um, but the only way to tap into inner creative genius is by forcing yourself to think in new directions. And that happens when we step into uncertainty. When you're. The whole point of routine and habit is to lower cognitive load is to not think. So by stepping into uncertainty, we have to use our creativity. But then that's creates the opportunity for brilliance.

Speaker A: One of the things that I also like is that this is a fairly, uh, some people might think is a fairly soft topic. Like oh well, you know, some people are more flexible, some people are more open minded, some people more go with the flow. But you have a framework. You have a six step framework. Uh, which just happens to be an easy to remember acronym for yes. And Y, E, S, A, N, D. Could you please walk us through that framework and share a little bit about each of those six segments?

Speaker B: Sure. So yes, yes. And is the acronym and I call them steps because the best term, you don't necessarily have to do them in order, but they're like six pieces of the framework. So why is yield to what is. You can't embrace change if you've got your head in the sand, um, wishing it was different. So you have to yield and accept it. Then the E is explore and express your core. We all have our strengths and our weaknesses. And you know, change is an opportunity if you lean for you to lean more into who you are. But first you have to figure out what that is. And I think that's. I think it's a big tragedy how many people don't do that, just sort of live lives without ever thinking about how they really want to express themselves. The uh S is start small and take small steps. One of the biggest things in improv, again, if you plan too far ahead, you're. You lose it. One step at a time gets you there. A. I just talked about access and apply your inner creative genius. Uh, the N is notice and nurture emotions. We like to believe we're all creatures of logic and we just need the strongest reason. But at the end of the day, we're actually emotional creatures. So we have to understand that and harness the emotions we want that are productive. And finally the D is dig deeper. Uh, because surface level thinking only generates surface level solutions, which I believe may have been a line you gave me when I was initially brainstorming this book with you. Uh, I did. That line gave me you. But surface level ideas generate surface level solutions. If you want to connect and really innovate you got to dig deeper and not just respond right away.

Speaker A: So one of the things that you have in the book, I love the structure of the book because the structure of the book is you go through all six of those in detail. There is a lot of interactive components to this. So you have sort of a, um, there are action steps, there's exercises. There's also a part that I think most people upon first reading will identify with, which is what happens if you skip this step, talk about some of those pitfalls and what's, what's the function of that section? What happens if you skip this step?

Speaker B: But it's sort of, the function is sort of a sales, uh, 101 type thing, right? It's, it's you. I don't want to jump right to the advice because I mean, you are certainly in your business and work, you can tell people what to do and why it's important, what, um, the benefit will be and they'll run off and do nothing. You have to let them know, hey, here's the pain sort of of not doing it. And so that's what the thinking was there. It's to get buy in. Because these ideas are a little out there. Like if I was reading, if I was writing a straightforward sales book, I probably wouldn't need it as much because everyone knows, like, oh yeah, if I don't sell, I don't make money in a book about improv comedy. And yes, and you have to let people know why this is important. And so, you know, hey, if you don't yield to what is, you could have the best ideas, but you're never going to apply them because you're sticking your head in the sand. If you don't express your core, you're going to be living someone else's life or you're going to, you know, never really fulfill your true potential because you'll never know what it is and so on. So those are, that's the reason for those sections, to get people really thinking about themselves and what they've done thus far and what if they don't change and try some of these new things.

Speaker A: And so by the way, I also love the sense of humor throughout the book. One of the sections is, you know, because you talk about self examination and self expression and you know, um, how that affects your performance and how it helps you avoid things like feeling stuck or stagnant or burned out. And then some people might be thinking to themselves, you know what the problem is, Avish, I'm kind of a jerk. I'm just kind of a jerk. So in the book, you have this amazing section called, well, what if I'm a jerk at my core. I'm curious what made you put that in? Or what feedback have you gotten from your speaking audiences where people go, avish, uh, the problem is I'm really a jerk.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I put that in there. Um, you know, very few people have actually literally come up to me and said that. I think. I think those people just tend to walk away. I've had people sort of dance around that a little bit, say, well, I'm a little bit negative or cynical. Uh, but, you know, thinking through a book, you're always thinking about, like, what are the questions people are going to have? And. And what are the holes in this book? And, you know, I thought about that. I'm like, I thought about people I know who wouldn't necessarily. They're a jerk. But they might say, well, that's just the way I am. Right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And I think, what if I'm a jerk? Is just sort of a. A more fun way of talking about it. But I think a lot of people say, well, that's just the way I am. I can't change. And that's who I am deep down. And that's where I say, like, look, you got to. You got to decide. I don't think anyone's a jerk. I think you, um, there things in your core that you're expressing in a jerky way, and you have to ask yourself, like, is that who I want to be? And again, this kind of comes back to the yes, but skeptic type thing. Like, look, if you're a jerk and you want to be a jerk and you want to get bad results and, and anger people and not have close relationships, then that's your choice. But I think, you know, and neuroplasticity sort of bears this out that, that people are malleable. And you can change how you express yourself. So you can have the exact same feeling deep down, and you can express it politely. You can express it like a jerk. You can express it empathetically. Like, so that's not an excuse. Um, you know, it's not a reason to be like, oh, this won't work for me because I'm a jerk. Like, no, I won't work for you because you're a jerk, because you're choosing to not let it work for you.

Speaker A: So let's tie together this concept of change, which, again, some people find hard, with a corporate value that I think is really important. I think a lot of companies are taking it even more important today in the age of AI, which is human creativity and human innovation. How does embracing this model and sort of living it on a day to day basis, where does that connect with ideas like corporate innovation and thinking much more creatively in the age of AI?

Speaker B: You know, I love the reason I'm still doing improv after 30 plus years instead of getting a real job is that it is uh, for me it's just the purest form of creative expression. You know, because you're everything. You're the writer, the actor, the director, you know, everything in the moment. And because it's so fast, just whatever is inside of you comes out. And I think that bears out in the book a little bit, especially with two of the steps in the framework, the explore your core and access your inner creative genius. Like the entire section on your creative genius has shows you how to access your creativity that so many of us lose touch with as we, we grow up. Um, and I think the problem, the directive that we get or that companies give is we need more innovation or you got to be more creative. Like all right, well how do we do that? And a lot of that comes to yes and versus yes, but in fact I just posted an article on LinkedIn about this that uh, a quote I heard years ago and I don't know who said it and I've looked up and tried to find it, but is that the most sought after quality in employees is creativity?

Speaker A: Oh yeah.

Speaker B: The most rewarded trait in employees is compliance. So we say we want creativity, but when someone comes up with an idea that's a little out of the box. Oh yeah, but that's crazier. Yeah, but be serious. Or if someone tries something new and fails, they don't usually get rewarded for the attempt and the learning. They get criticized for failing. And so when we embrace a yes and mindset, we start creating a culture that allows it. And the final piece of that is to me, yes and yes but is a simple way to build psychological safety which you know that uh, Google Aristotle did this research internal to find the common traits of highest performing teams. The number one trait was psychological safety, you know, not skill or experience or intelligence. And it's just the feeling that if I raise an idea or an objection that or um, a question that I'll be met with respect and I won't be hurt for it. And to me I, I rephrase that on my own terms. It just means that if I feel like if I have an Idea, a question or objection, you're going to say yes and to me instead of yes, but. And you build that psychological safety, people are more willing to try new ideas. I mean it's just once you make that simple shift from but to end and build a culture of yes and which I like to help people to do. Um, that's how you, you know, that's how you open up innovation and creativity within your people.

Speaker A: And this also, I mean you're sort of tackling this, uh, not only innovation and creativity, but this also reminds me of Steve Jobs who pretty much asked his people to do the imposs. Right. And every major technological leap. All of his engineers said, no way, can't do it. Don't have the technology that doesn't exist. And he says, well then you have to invent it. And you have a great, great story in the book about you and Mike doing the 48 Hour Film Project, which is in the chapter about start small, right? And then see what kind of magic can happen. So creating even a short film from start to finish in 48 hours, many people would look at as a Steve Jobs type. Oh my God, that's impossible. There is absolutely no way, there is no human way that a bunch of people can make a worthy film five minutes long, you know, whatever. From start to finish, from the beginning to getting the assignment of what's supposed to be in the film to delivering the finished film. And in 48 hours, please share that story because I think there's so many lessons in there will do.

Speaker B: And uh, some people say it's not impossible. And those people are called filmmakers. When I, when I did it, we had no filmmaking experience. So in the fall of like oh two I believe I auditioned to be an actor in this thing called the 40 Hour Film Project. Got into it. You make a whole movie, you get an idea, you get your criteria at 7pm Friday, by 7pm Sunday, you submit the finished like 10 minute long film.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and it just looked like so much fun. And me being a person always likes to run things, my first thought was, ooh, when it comes back next year, I want to run a team. Even though I never made a film before, when I talked to some friends who would be kind of into it. But the following year, the, the film, instead of coming back in the fall, it came back in the spring. So that's six months less. We had to sort of get our ducks in a row. Um, and my one friend, he got the email first. He forwarded to me. He's like, oh, this Sucks. There's no way to be ready for this this time. And me being, you know, chip on my shoulder, not being like to told what I can't do. I'm like, really? Now at 53 year olds old, I might say to, I might go back to be like, look, I think we can do this. Instead, I just ignored his email and I reached out to my buddy Mike. He was in North Carolina at the time. I wasn't feeling. I'm like, hey, listen, this might be terrible, but I'll put up the hundred dollar registration fee. You ought to make a movie. It might just be me, you and my camcorder. He's like, yeah, let's do it. So once I got one person on board, small steps. I then reached out to the whole friend group, including the one who said he couldn't do it. I'm like, I'm running the 48 hour film project. Who wants to be a part of me? And all these people started saying yes, including that one friend. Um, and then just stuff started happening which is, you know, one person knew someone who had camera equipment and could shoot it and one person happened to work as a film editor and it just came together and it was one of the most fun things we've ever done. And we did four more after that. Some of them won some of the local awards. And you know, one, there was like one national one, ours was in the top 30 in the nation. Like, and the important thing here is it worked out great. But even if it hadn't of just the effort and the idea of stepping into something impossible, I think it opens up creativity, it creates energy and you're going to end up somewhere. Like, you'll learn something, you'll try something. So I love that story because it was just like a, uh, how are you going to do this? I have no idea, but let's try. And I think that's the improv spirit and that's the, the yes AM spirit.

Speaker A: Holy smokes. So much value in this episode. Listen, if you are loving what you're hearing, feel free to download, subscribe, tell a friend, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to the selling show. Now back to the interview. Well, at the risk of digging, uh, a little deeper into this before we land the plane, uh, talk about the dig deeper chapter, because that's where things kind of get a little bit more profound, a little bit more personal transformation. Share, you know, share a little parting wisdom about dig deeper.

Speaker B: So dig deeper is really. And it's funny because this idea actually came to me later in the writing the book process. I don't know what the D originally was, but, uh, I was doing a lot of research and interviews with leaders. And the one unifying theme that came across from leaders who successfully navigated a change is that they asked questions and listened to the answers. They didn't launch in with their brilliant ideas. And I realized that's. And I did talk about for years as a communication tool. Yes. And is about digging deeper. If you come to me with an objection to my idea, I'm not going to say, yeah, but David, here's why you're wrong. I'll say yes. And David, tell me more about your point of view. Yes. And why do you feel that way? Yes. And what is holding you back? Because then a lot. You know this is sales 101, right. The objection is never the objection. It's something deeper.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And yes. And is about digging deeper. And so, number one, as a communication tool, you dig deeper. Number two, into yourself. Like, what are your motivations if you're just kind of, oh, this change is happening. I guess I need to, um, just work every weekend for the next six months to get it done. Okay, well, why? Well, because there's so much to do. I gotta modify this. Well, why do you need to modify that? Oh, well, because the new system's not going to work with the old system. Oh, well, why, you know, can you find a new way of linking them, like whatever it is? Like. I'm just thinking hypothetically. But by digging deeper, you open up more innovation and you get to the real issue. I think so many people waste so much time and effort by addressing the surface level without ever stopping to think, does this thing need to be done? Is this the best way to do it? And what are my other options?

Speaker A: Yeah. Really, really. Great. Well, as we're coming to a close, I've got two final questions for you. The final, final question is where can people lear about Avish, uh, Parashar brilliance? Where can they get the book? All of that. But before we go there, if you were to leave one overarching idea with people about, uh, everything we've talked about say yes. And to change the whole conceptual framework around unlocking your brilliance and being more resilient and tapping into more innovation and creativity, what would the overarching takeaway concept that you would like to leave people be?

Speaker B: I would say it starts with awareness. So just start paying attention to your language and even your intention. Because you could say, you could say yes and actually mean yes, but I've seen this in improv games like let's go over Chinese food. Yes, and I don't like Chinese. Like you're missing the point. But pay attention. Are you shutting ideas down immediately? Are you immediately responding with a uh, yes, but. And just see. Can I change some of those to yes ands? Because so many it's so ingrained, um, that we don't even realize we're doing it. So just start paying attention. Are you stepping into uncertainty and possibility? And then you can start making some of those changes. But asking people to jump right in without awareness is never going to work. So start by paying attention and see what yes buts there are. And can you start changing some of those CS hands?

Speaker A: Very smart advice. Now, where can people go to get connected and stay connected to more Avish Parashar Brilliance what links can we put in the show notes for people?

Speaker B: I would say the three best are. My website is avishparisher.com. there's info on the topic, the books, video clips, TEDx talk. You know, if you're looking for a speaker or trainer, consultant, that's a place to find me. If you want the book, the links are on the website, but you can also go to the book title. Say yes and2change.com. Uh, and I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so, uh, you know, we can link to my LinkedIn if you want to connect with me there.

Speaker A: Excellent. And again, all of those links will be live directly under this episode@thesellingshow.com Avish Parashar, you are a mensch. You are one of the good guys in this business. People need to connect with you and they need to say yes and to change.

Speaker B: Thank you sir. You are awesome.

Speaker A: And that wraps up another episode of the selling show. Hey, tell you what, if you like us, uh, rate us and review us on Apple podcasts, subscribe, tell a friend. Go grab the notes and downloads and extras@the sellingshow.com See you next time.