How We Helped a Healthcare Business 3x Revenue

Harry Hughes: Hi, and welcome to our first ever guest episode. And we're joined today by David, who is the co-founder of Linear. Now, Linear is the fastest growing orthodontics brand in Australia. They specialize in clear aligners, which some people know them as Invisalign, they're an alternative to Invisalign, essentially a clear set of a kind of form of braces, if you will.

U we've been working closely with David and his team now for the past year or more. And the journey for Linear has been pretty substantial. The growth has just been off the charts. And so we just wanted to bring David in today, have a little chat about what he was doing leading up to Linear and what that growth trajectory has looked like.

So welcome to the pod, David. Do you just want to kind of because this is something that I actually don't know at the moment. So Do you just wanna kind of give us a bit of a background intro into what you were doing pre linear? Like what did it look like from a career perspective?

David: Pre-linear will wind the clock back to sort of my uni days. So at uni, I was doing a business degree. And then after I graduated, went and joined PKF, the accounting firm. I did about two years as an accountant before realizing I absolutely hated it.

And one other unit I actually studied a bit of Chinese. so I thought, why not? just quit accounting, move over to China and sort of continue my language studies over there. So I did that.

quit, over to Beijing and I spent about six years after that in Beijing, sort of studying Chinese, doing bits of work here and there, for a little bit. And then I really wanted to start my own business, my own thing. It's a sort dream I've had since I was at university. And when I was over there, I thought the oral care industry was a really interesting market to play in for a number of reasons.

And so I decided to dip my toes into toothpaste while me and another business partner of mine were looking into toothpaste. We met a bunch of dentists in Melbourne and Perth and talking to them is what then led us to invest in Linear and or Chris O and talking to them is what led us to starting Linear together really. Harry Hughes: So did you actually start a tooth face business? Or were you just looking into it?

David: We got pretty close. We got pretty close. Actually, we actually started in whitening. So we did.

We wanted to create a whitening business called ICO. We got about two years into the R &D of ICO. So we had the packaging was all done. The branding was all done.

We had shops set up in WeChat, which is a Chinese platform, and also on Tuba. which is another sort of, it's kind of like the Amazon of China. And we pretty much had everything ready to go except for placing the initial sort of initial order about 5,000 units. And right before we're about to launch or about to buy this MOQ Minimata, I was like, I might just check to see that I might as well engage a lawyer and check to see that we're all legal here.

so We engaged a lawyer and they said, do you have the, you know, a cert form medical device license? which is something that you apparently you need, you need in China, but you don't, don't need in, Australia. So it's something I'd never heard about. And we were like, the cert form medical device license.

What's, what's that? And then like, this is what it is. And this is how you apply. And this is the criteria to, to get it.

And it was something, it was ridiculous. It was like, you need 50 staff. you need to like meet XYZ requirements. And we had absolutely, were just two dudes at the time.

So we had absolutely no way of meeting any of those. And so we're like, okay, well, we can't do one anymore. So we'll pivot to toothpaste. Toothpaste didn't need a medical device license.

And then we got sort of about two years into developing toothpaste when we met the dentists in Melbourne and Perth. And they were... complaining about a sort of situation in Australia where a lot of people were turning away from Invisalign because of the price point. know, 8,000 12,000 were pricing out a lot of people.

But what was happening was that a lot of those people were going to at-home clear alignment companies, which were removing sort of all clinical oversight. They're very cheap, they're very convenient, but also quite dangerous. And so these dentists were seeing a lot of patients coming in with complications and issues. And so they were like, well, there's obviously a lot of people that need these services, these more accessible, more convenient services.

But there must be a better way to do it when we're not risking people's teeth. so, yeah, discussions with them and chatting through that, we then decided to go in business together and start Linear. And back to be stuck toothpaste, no, COVID hit. And so we did have a choice to either start it or not.

Unfortunately, business didn't seem or China at the time didn't seem like a good place to start a business, especially during COVID. And we decided to bin the toothpaste idea and go all in in linear. Harry Hughes: I had no idea about the toothpaste journey. And so really I guess the the USP then for for Linear compared to because I guess if you were an outsider, right, looking into the clear line of market, you would think that it's pretty tied up, right?

That it's probably a hard industry to to try and wedge yourself into and to create something from scratch. you obviously at the moment there was or I guess over the last few years, you've got, the big dominant player which is Invisalign. which most orthodontics sell invisalign right across across the world or certainly across US, Australia and the UK. And then the opposite to that is then the DIY treatments, which we've seen come and go.

I mean I've seen plenty of them come and go in the UK. You've obviously had the same in Australia. And so I guess really where you then saw the gap for linear was that nobody was handling that sort of duality of doing both the DIY at home combined with still visiting a dentist. Now I think one interesting question that I do have off the back of that is do you think that that's just a geography position?

Like what I mean by that is do you think that that's just because Australia is maybe slightly behind and that there was just an opportunity that was ripe in Australia. Whereas like I know for example there were already brands that were kind of working on that model in the UK. Do you just think that Australia was the perfect place to start it because it was naturally not quite as advanced like as the UK and US? Is that fair to say?

David: Yeah, think the UK was potentially more developed. The US didn't really have a strong hybrid player. Singapore at the time had a hybrid player, Zenon. I think it was just perfect timing for us to come in.

Australia didn't have a hybrid brand in the market. And so when we entered, it was really just your major players on the B2B, Dennis directed side. So Invisalign, ClearCorrect. and then your major players on the at-home side, which would have been your bite and your smart direct club.

And so from an outside looking in, it probably does seem quite intimidating because you've got these billion dollar companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars on, especially the at-home alignment companies are spending hundreds of millions on ads. But when you delve deeper than the service level, you realize that... the at-home aligner companies really had some fundamental underlying issues and the fact is that they were extremely unsafe. There was no diagnosis, there were no x-rays to identify underlying issues.

There was no licensed medical practitioner that was responsible for the case. So there was really minimal to no clinical oversight. And so a lot of patients were beginning treatments and they were having major complications and no way to resolve them. So they end up having to come to the dentist and get invisalignable.

Often they had complications that needed to be fixed alongside that. that when you delve deeper, then you were like, okay, there does seem to be a gap here where maybe we can bring in a model that gives people the accessibility that they want. It gives them a more affordable price point. And it does make the process more streamlined and convenient, but still maintain that level of clinical oversight and safety that's absolutely critical for an orthodontic treatment and treatment when we're moving teeth through the bone.

So yeah, was kind of good timing that Australia didn't have a hybrid model and that we sort of identified that as being a a potentially powerful product to start Harry Hughes: Mm. David: offering people. Harry Hughes: And I think also what's interesting is that it's a business where you've got two sides, right? You know, I come from a marketplace background where we always had the chicken and the egg problem.

I mean, with linear it's not quite as strict as that. But we had issues in terms of do you first build up the suppliers or do you build up the consumer side? You still have that issue to a point, you've still got to build up dentists and a network of dentists that can actually execute on this treatment and supply the treatment but then you've also got to fill up the consumer side. So Just take me back to when you first started Linear, what did that look like in terms of how did you approach it?

I assume that you had to spend time first and foremost going out and finding dentists as providers first. David: Yeah, So the first thing that we ever did was go out and find dental partners. And that has to date been by far the most challenging thing we've ever, ever, ever had to do. know, the dentists get inundated every day with people trying to sell them things or work with them or partner with them.

And so they're very apprehensive towards partnership. arrangements. you know, we, in the early days, me and one of my business partners, we actually drove all the way up the East Coast, starting in Melbourne, went to Sydney, Gold Coast, Brisbane. We spent about two months in Sydney, just driving around the streets going door to door to door, I think we went to about 500 or so dental practices that we knocked on and try to talk with the principal dentist and get them on board.

mean, often you're getting, you're getting stonewalled by reception. So, yeah, that'd be like, come back tomorrow at lunch. He's not free today, but I can see he's got a slot tomorrow at lunch and you come back tomorrow at lunch. And they'll be like, sorry, he's just stuck out for lunch.

How about you come back like Thursday for at like Harry Hughes: Classic. David: 2pm and you come back Thursday 2pm. like, yeah, sorry. Like he's just not available.

So you just keep getting stonewalled by reception. And sometimes you get onto the dentist and again, like they're very skeptical about working with you. So we got out of that 500 clinics that we approached in Sydney, we got two that signed on. But that too allowed us to start marketing in Sydney.

And that in itself was a godsend. Harry Hughes: And then did you progress that same door to door sales approach when you went to the other state? 'Cause obviously now you're in a position where you're essentially providing across all of the major states in Australia, right? were you doing door to door dentist recruitment across all states, or was there a point where you were like, there's an easier way to do David: We did.

Harry Hughes: this? David: Both, yeah both. We did do that. We did door to door in every single city that we wanted to be in.

we did Gold Coast, we did Brisbane, we did Adelaide, and we did Perth. And then after that we started running ads for recruitment. But that was later when... our guest platform and our brand but it was more developed.

The thing is if you start running ads when your brands, you know, we had nothing. We had a shopping website that, you know, was not not optimized whatsoever. We had no patients really with no brand, no reputation. And so it's kind of hard sending dentists to landing pages when there's really nothing that's built out around the brand.

So I think the door-to-door really helped in the early days. And then as we scaled, we could start introducing other strategies, like running ads. also tried our emails as well. Harry Hughes: the the ad side on the dentist recruitment has obviously been it's been quite an interesting project for us as well, really.

Like coming in, we manage both the acquisition side for consumers, but we've since taken on the acquisition side for for dentists and helping you guys out there, which has also been interesting because you're essentially targeting B2B within Meta and I know that we talk about this on loads of our podcasts and often talk about it on LinkedIn as well. which is just how effective Meta can be targeting businesses through using completely broad targeting and literally just dialing in your creative to talk to the end consumer that you want.

Ultimately at the end of the day, the person that runs, you know, the lead dentist that runs that practice, he is another human being that's also scrolling on social feeds. So therefore, Meta is the perfect place to target them. And you can target them extremely well, Meta. And Linear is a great case of that.

we get numerous leads, each month that comes through on relatively low spend as well. We just, hyper target from a geography perspective and we'd really dialed in the creative, as well as creating a new landing page that speaks to the dentist themselves, talks through social proof, talks through case studies, talks through exactly what we bring to them in USPs. And that process is now really dialed in and working well. And obviously it's made the acquisition side for dentists for you much, much easier.

David: Definitely. Harry Hughes: one question that I did have was is there anything that when you started out in in this market, was there anything that you really underestimated at all? you thought would be easier than what it was and that now you've started you've realized this is actually pretty hard or has it been pretty smooth sailing? David: yeah, the hardest thing or the thing that we underestimated most about this month was definitely like how hard it was going to be to acquire dental partners.

It took months, months and months and months. And it was just, it was just acquiring sort of one at a time. just chipping away at it inch by inch. just took, you might get like one every couple of months.

You know, all of those long hours on the road, driving around, staying in motels. It was brutal. you drive 13 hours, you get to a new city, you go to some dentists, you check in at the, you know, at the time we were absolutely broke. You check in at some pretty, pretty seedy, seedy motels.

And then it's just day in, day out of driving around. I think we underestimated how difficult it would be to convince them to partner with us. I think we thought we had a fantastic offering, an offering that was really beneficial to dental clinics and dental practices and could really help drive drive business from their perspective and also it was a great offering for patients, know, being able to provide a more accessible solution that still maintains safety. yeah, it was really tough convincing those first partners to come on board with us.

But, Harry Hughes: naturally healthcare is gonna be a sceptical market. both from a consumer side but also from a provider side. whenever it comes down to health it naturally it's you're gonna be sceptical, if it's supplements, obviously people are less sceptical, but when it comes to actually changing the structure of your face and the anatomy of your body, obviously then there's naturally from a consumer side there's much more scepticism than also for those providers that are going to be treating physical human beings with it, they're also going to be skeptical.

But it just goes to show really that how powerful social proof and trust is. once you had those first couple, then it can start to snowball because you're like, hey, look, we've already got, these two dentists over in Sydney. We're getting X amount of customers we're filling their books already. and then that just immediately just brings down that that trust barrier.

So it just goes to show those hard yards and getting those first couple, that's obviously when it pays off and then it can just snowball on from there. going to the consumer side then. we're still back in the early days, you've got a couple of dental practices, you're probably in a couple of states by now. What were you doing from a marketing perspective to then target your consumers at that time?

David: We started with Facebook ads and Google. So we were running, I think our very, very first ads were some Facebook static ads. We had a model shoot that we, that we did, which we actually did in Singapore for some reason. And so we had a few, a few model shots.

we had a few product images. I think we did a little shoot where we put like, we stuck aligners to rocks. and with fruit and different foods and things like that, I guess to evoke different elements of the aligning material itself, it being hard, but soft and flexible and comfortable. Which was interesting.

And I think we just started with a couple of product images, a couple of model images. And I think we also had an animation that we played as well. had a rotating rock. animation.

The things you do in the beginning will surprise you, but that was our kind of start and we launched that on Facebook. Harry Hughes: Nice. And was there anything that you found was consumer acquisition particularly hard or was it easier than what you anticipated when you first started? David: When you first start, think the platforms will give you the lowest hanging fruit.

So it might seem relatively easy. month, it gives you kind of that impression of okay, I'm getting a few leads here. we're gaining traction, we're gaining momentum, but you do get punched in the face pretty quickly because it doesn't last long and your ad's fatigue. and your cost per lead absolutely skyrockets and then you're floundering and you're like, we need content, what do we film, what do people want?

And then it's a massive learning curve from there. Harry Hughes: So within the healthcare industry, depending on exactly what you're selling, there are different regulations that you need to be adhering to. I understand that in in the clearer liner world those those guidelines aren't super super strict, but there are some guidelines that you need to adhere to. for example, We can't run very clear, strict before and after transformation photos.

I mean you can, but they get shut down pretty quickly. so what have you been doing from a content and a marketing perspective to work around not being able to just completely push transformations all the time? David: Yeah, I think when you can't push testimonials all the time, you've got to sort of move away from just marketing, clearly marketing before and after and clearly marking that the emotion and the emotional reaction that people get after they see their results, which is in advertising.

You just have to get a little bit creative in your content. what we would do is we got quite good at filming patient journeys rather than the specific outcomes and rather than the emotion behind the transformation. What we found was people really liked watching people go through the linear process and go through their treatment journey. It almost feels like people are vicariously living through the person that they're seeing online.

So watching those videos and being able to see patients and creators on Instagram or TikTok go through the steps of linear and go through their own treatment really helps people get insight into the world of linear. helps give them a really good understanding of exactly what the treatment entails, exactly what the process and the flow is. And that content performs really well. again, when you can't focus on testimonials and results, you need to get creative with your other pieces of content.

Ones that we found were really effective were patient journeys and patient process videos. but also just educational content. we had a whole network of dentists that we could utilize. And so we thought it'd be fantastic just to get these dentists on camera and get them speaking about what clear aligners are, who's suitable, what's the process, what's important, what are the health benefits of straight teeth aside from the aesthetics point of view.

And so that... informative content from respected individuals and clinicians also is really effective and really helps to build the brand and build the credibility and also give people a lot more information and insight into what clear aligners are and how they straighten the teeth. so, we would use a lot of patient video. We got good at filming patient journeys.

We got good at filming educational content. with our dentists. And then you also just get a bit creative with your product photos and your model photos and you try and build a world and build a brand around that. You just can't be as reliant on results as you might want to be.

Harry Hughes: And I think what's great at the moment is that with with Linear, we've certainly found a really good point where we've tested so many different angles that we've really of dialed into the angles that we know work well. And what's been really, really effective in certainly in your account is having just a really solid mix of types of creatives. So, like you said, we've got those polished creatives that are coming from the licensed dentists. So that comes across as that healthcare trust, like, yes, we are safe.

This is who we are. I'm a licensed dentist. I'm telling you about linear. And these are the types of cases that we can treat.

That's been incredibly effective from an acquisition standpoint. But then also combining that, as you said, then with a whole tranche of UGC videos, but then also having static images alongside that, where we're then talking direct to insurance or to price. And having that huge variants of different angles to go at, that's where we've been able to really tap into that extra growth and really to drive down the CPLs for you guys at Linear. I think just touching base on the UGC is I think that's been a real, real interesting one for Linear because we've worked with other brands in this space before and most of the work that we were doing with them was focused entirely on heavy static image and just basically pushing price and pushing for getting them in the door for a consultancy with the dentist at the first point.

And most of that was just being done through statics. But with Linear, we've kind of taken this approach of your kind of classical direct consumer econ brand where you're leveraging and you're pushing creators to go out there and create their own content and create their own stories. And that has been the biggest both creative flywheel in terms of being able to create multiple bits of content from one creator, but also from a trust perspective and also maximizing reach for the cheapest possible cost.

And really dialing into UGC content for your clear aligners has been a huge, huge unlock. And that's where at the moment we're pushing that so hard. at the minute, our goal is just to try and get as many content creators as possible to continue building on that flywheel because as we mentioned the other day on the call, that is the quickest and most effective way for us to scale out this ad account at the moment. And I think that is one of the biggest levers for us to continue to grow and to scale what we're doing from an ad advertising point.

Because as we said, there's only so many creative variants you can make of a pricing static. But when you're working with different content creators, the amount of content and the variation of that content is never ending, as long as obviously you can keep the flywheel of creators coming through the door. just just kind of go on. David: The thing with creators is there's such variability in their personality, in their look, in their tone of voice, in their intonation, in the b-roll that they chop the clip with.

So you do get so much variance. And then when you have an enormous quantity of posting for you and even just a constant wheel that you can put on ads, it really builds that social proof. which is such a crucial component of getting people to trust your brand and see you as a credible, reliable brand. So I think it's the social proof paired with the fact that people want to almost see, feel and experience the journey before they're even on it.

And these sort of come with me videos or pieces of content with a flywheel of creators really helps. people feel the experience and taste the experience before they come on board with us. Harry Hughes: so we started working with you around I think it was like just just over twelve months ago. And obviously the journey that we've taken with you has changed somewhat during those twelve months.

when we first started working with you, I know that you were working with an agency before us, which I think is kind of an interesting journey going from an agency to another agency. But during that twelve months as well, we've gone from just working on purely from like a pay media perspective and also briefing in the creative. And we're now in a position where we're not just doing the paid, but we handle your CRM in terms of trying to build and make the pipeline more effective, working on retention, basically kind of working on that whole system, right?

From not just trying to get you a lead, but also how can we then optimize from lead all the way through to that customer actually invoicing you. So obviously that's been a a big change over the past twelve months where we've kind of gone further and further down the pipeline where to the point now we're literally covering the full pipeline with you guys. it'd be super interesting to know what it was like in leading up to before swapping agencies and what that kind of look like for you guys.

David: Yeah, so before, before stopping agencies were actually still with another agency and they were, they were okay. They, they helped get us to sort of where we were at the time. So they did obviously help us grow to a certain point. the problem was, is we were marketing on Facebook and our cost per lead was, around 40 to $50 per month.

then the variability. between months was also quite high. some months our CPL would be around $80 or $70. And we'd be sitting there scratching our heads like, why is it so high?

And the main problem that we had with the previous agency was that there was sort of no responsibility taken on the creative side of things. So there was no direction or strategy or advice given to us by them on, what content do we need? Why is this content underperforming? What kind of content, what formats, what copy, where are our deficiencies that we could improve on or what content could we give you that will help lower our CPL and really deliver us more leads in the end?

Essentially, with our previous agency, it was really them saying to us effectively was we'll take your content, we'll create the ad sets and we'll run the ads and we'll optimize, but we're not going to give you any ideas around or any strategy around the content itself. And so we were really left to our own devices in terms of coming up with ideas on what do we film? Do we do influences? Do we do photo shoots?

Do we need product photos? Is it all video focused? Should we do static? as people that were brand new into this environment and into this, we'd never started a company before and we hadn't run ads before.

And so we really had no idea what content we should be providing. And that was one thing that I loved when we signed on with you is that you would give us these massive briefs and we would have these meetings and you'd be like, okay, we need 30 new pieces of static creative we want and what levers are we pulling? We really want to focus on pricing. So we want 10 to 15 statics on pricing, 10 to 15 statics focusing on insurance.

And then within that, we are also going to split that up into five pieces with this kind of copy trying to pull these emotional levers and then another five pieces with this copy trying to pull these levers. And so just the... The support and direction on what creative we should create was astronomical. It was really incredible what kind of briefs that you would pull together with examples and that really helped guide us to produce the content that was needed to then get our CPLs down.

That's why our CPLs came down. Now they're sitting at what, like a lead of $15, $16, which is a third of of the lowest cost per lead that we were getting with our previous agency. So you couldn't even compare it. think especially as a startup founder, you really need guidance on what creative to produce because you have absolutely no idea.

so having you plug in and give us these really in-depth briefs and letting us know, OK, I mean, we weren't even running static ads before. We partnered with you. Because I just assumed that we're in the world of film, we're in the world of video. No one uses static anymore.

But static hats are so powerful as well. We were literally just running video ads and very few video ads, which is probably why they're performing poorly is because they would fatigue and then the CPLs would skyrocket. And so even just coming on board and saying, hey, we need you know, we need 50 pieces of static and like, static, why do need that? But the static is obviously really effective in conveying concise information really quickly to people.

Harry Hughes: I think like one of the reasons why we do that is because especially within Meta and and and you guys are in an aggressive spending phase right over the last twelve months, we've been applying more and more spend month to month, like we're scaling at a very, very quick pace here. And you can't always produce that amount of creative video content all the time. And so what you need to do is you have to be able to scale into the same market. And so you have to try and think about other ways in which you can scale into the same market at that kind of speed.

And one of those ways is by creative variance because what you find there is that when you produce those different angles, so for example, you've got a static that's talking about pricing, that will find a different target consumer than the UGC content of a twenty five year old woman talking about her get ready with me and know her going to pick up and get her clearer liners fitted. They will speak to two very different consumers and that's how we have managed to scale out the the accounts so well is by having such a broad range of creative because it each bit of creative will speak to different individuals and that's what's been so effective.

And that's why we've not only been able to scale your lead volume so much, which is that's been astronomical in itself, but also maintain that really good CPL because usually what What you sometimes see happen is that when you're growing an account at that speed and you're gaining that many conversions, you will naturally see a creep on your CPL. But we haven't seen that. And in some instances, we've actually seen the CPL continue to decrease as we've actually continued to scale out, which has been great.

And from an agency side, what's been super exciting for us is yes, we've dialed in this acquisition model in a in a really great way with you guys, but we've been able to come in now and say, okay, great, we've got the leads coming in the door. What's actually happening post lead? And let's jump in and let's look at every single data point possible between the point that they start their journey with linear. And that, as we've been working on over the last six months, that has for me been the most exciting part of all of this is great, we've got them in the door.

Now let's make that journey to them basically being invoice and becoming a paying customer as efficient as possible because it's all well and good us generating let's say a million leads in a year but every percent you can convert more that's just direct revenue without having to spend more. So yes acquisition is great and yes we'll continue to pump money and we'll continue to scale and grow that but let's make the post acquisition as effective and as efficient as possible. And that's been super exciting because we've been making heaps of changes over the last six months and uncovering new data points, then making changes off the back of it, creating tests and so on.

David: Sorry, I was just going to jump in. Yeah, I think particularly in a business like ours where it's not just, it's not a product. So, you know, it's a product and a service. So the journey doesn't end online.

It doesn't end with the person, adding something to cart and then checking out. And that's the end of the journey. It starts online and then it's taken offline and the patient then has to, or the lead then has to be booked in for an appointment with the dentist. And then there's a whole flow that happens after that before they become a patient, before they convert we receive the payment for services.

And so one half of the journey is running the paid ads to collect the leads. And then the next is the lead nurturing journey to convert that lead into a paying patient or into a booking and then that booking to a paid patient. And so I think that's where we really unlock the second stage of growth is when we actually brought you in to review our CRM, and really help us build out our nurturing flow. And that includes things like SMS's, emails.

scheduling of calls with sales consultants, the follow ups that happen after that, the activities that are set after that, and then all of the email correspondence and SMS correspondence that happens off the back of that to try and push people or encourage people to book in a consultation with the dentist. And then post having the conversation with the dentist, what is that sort of nurturing sequence after that to then convince them to proceed with treatment? yeah, stage one of growth was really bringing you in to take over the paid advertising component and really scale our spend and scale our creative.

And then the second piece of the puzzle has really been bringing you in on the CRM side, the nurturing side, to really scale and refine how we're communicating with patients, our email sequences, our SMS sequences, how our sales consultants. schedule calls and communicate with our patients and Harry Hughes: Mm. David: help push them further down the funnel. Harry Hughes: I'm not entirely sure what you can what you can share and what you can't share here, but if there's any kind of insight you can give in terms of the growth because, I've certainly seen it from from our acquisition and actually scheduling people in with both calls with the sales team but also consults with the dentist is that there are some areas that we're in where we have jammed dentists up to the point where there's waiting lists in some instances, right?

Like it's it's scaled so hard that it's almost hard to keep on top of. that's that's actually now becoming a challenge in the business, right? Is that the the acquisition has got to such a point where it's like, wow, we really need to scale up other parts to be able to handle the amount of demand that we've got. I don't know what you can share in terms of growth numbers but what's it looked like over the last a couple of years?

David: Over the last 12 months, we've 2-3x revenue, which has been absolutely fantastic. Like what you said, the problem now that we're facing is sometimes we're maxing out our current network of dental partners, which is why we're also running so many ads to recruit new partners and expand our network across Australia and then overseas as well. I mean, our ad spend has also, gone from around 20,000. per month on paid media.

So now I think we're at what 70 or 80,000. So we've been able to scale spend significantly whilst really still keeping CPLs down, way down and now very, very consistent. We really haven't seen CPL creep at all, which has been fantastic. And so yeah, it's really been...

a matter of scaling spend and then seeing sort of exponential growth off the back of Harry Hughes: that that ramp in spend as well has been been over a short period of time as well, which is which makes it kind of even even more impressive. Is there has there been any time throughout your journey of linear, but has there been like I mean I've previously ran a startup, I kind of know how brutal the slog is. R1 unfortunately failed after after five years of running it, but there's always kind of that point where things start to click and start to work and you're like, hold up, we're on to something.

I can now see how we can scale this. this is now moving exactly where we want it. Was there any point in which you hit that moment where you were like, Yeah, we're we're onto it now. David: Yeah, probably two moments.

One moment was probably like the third or fourth month after partnering with you when we would just get consistency in our lead volumes, in our CPLs, in our consults, and in our payments, in our conversions. That is... one of the most relieving things, first couple of years or first few years, you're just sort of going through this major up and down, you're swinging left and right. And so some months you'll have these bumper months where leads are up and bookings are up and then you'll have these other months where it absolutely tanks.

think getting consistency with you really helped. then I'd say probably the biggest point was would have been April this year. So it's not even that not even that long ago. Just after we've implemented our scheduling nurturing system.

So allowing patients to schedule calls with our sales consultants directly from our website and also creating email and SMS nurturing sequences off the back of that. And my God, like, I think it was, it must've been March. What do you mean March? And the sales girls books are just like absolutely reamed full of scheduled calls.

Which hadn't been in the past. really, previously we were just doing like a lot of cold calling, so cold reach outs and no, no sort of scheduled calls at all. And then we were sort of, after we made this, these tiny little changes that we made. created us this absolute influx of scheduled calls and off the back of that schedule calls just so many bookings and then from so many bookings, you know, become so many patients.

And so yeah, I think I remember me and Nick were in Hong Kong, Hong Kong seventh and we were looking at each other, I think we'd done like 40 bookings in like one day. And we were just looking at each other and we were like, man, remember when like 40 bookings in a month was like a good month? You'd be like, you'd be happy with that. And then we've just done like 40 in a day and like, geez, it's pretty crazy.

And so you got to Harry Hughes: Yeah. I I rem I remember getting the Watson David: kick yourself a little bit sometimes. Harry Hughes: Yeah, I I remember getting the WhatsApp from you. just saying like, bookings are absolutely flying.

it's such a nice message to wake up to and just to see how pleased you guys were with the scale and growth that's happening. Just to just to kind of close out then, what's What's next for you guys on the horizon at Linear? where do you see the next twelve months? what's the big goals for you guys?

David: Goals are still just expanding our network further across Australia. ideally hitting other states that we're not or other cities that we're not hitting currently. So Canberra, Tassie would be one. It's continuing to expand our network of partners across the cities that we're already in as well.

And then the US is a big project of ours. So we're currently launching in the US now. And over the next 12 months, hopefully we can really start to scale that. across many more states and cities.

that's really exciting. Harry Hughes: Yeah, the the US is going to be super, super exciting. I can't wait to see how that unfolds. awesome.

David: Yeah, said. Harry Hughes: And final question for me, is there anything exciting you in your in your personal life at the moment outside of Linear? David: Lini is mostly taking out most of my personal life at the moment but a bit of skiing is coming up so I've got a weekend thread bow that I'm looking forward to at the moment. Harry Hughes: that would be that would be mega.

That would be so so good. David: and soon in January we're coming over to France. I'll be close to you so you'll have to pop over and come skiing with us. Harry Hughes: That's that sounds awesome.

Well look, thank you so much for your time today, mate. I really, really appreciate it. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening. But cheers for joining us today.

David: Likewise, thanks so much.