TV advertising has decentralized

[upbeat music] Welcome to the Rebooting show. I am Brian Morrissey. This is part one of a two-part special edition of the show that we recorded last week at the TRB lounge at Nobu at the Possible Conference in Miami Beach. We call this TRB Conversations.

We ran the first edition of TRB Conversations in Las Vegas at CES, and we'll have another one coming up at the Cannes Lions next month, off to France. These conversations are powered by exco, smarter video technology driven by real-time machine learning, built to help media owners maximize revenue across every screen: web, mobile, CTV, and digital out of home. To learn more, go to ex.co.

That is E-X.C-O. Thank you to exco for their support. In today's edition of TRB Conversations, powered by exco, I have a series of discussions with executives from Roku, Spotify, and Fuse Media about how the TV advertising business is being reinvented much along the lines of digital media.

You know, it took a while, but the internet is swallowing TV as well. This has long been predicted. I've heard this for a long time, because TV always operated completely differently than how digital media operated. And I, I was always having completely different conversations than my colleagues who covered the, quote-unquote, traditional or the linear TV side of the house.

And now everything is digital, and so many of the same dynamics from what used to be called internet advertising are being ported over to what used to be called TV advertising. So this first conversation, I talk with Lauren Benedict, the VP of ad sales at Roku, and Lauren reinforces an essential truth of digital media. There's a lot of power on the interface layer. About 125 million viewers tune into Roku every day to watch TV, presenting a golden opportunity to turn that attention and intent to watch into brand advertising opportunities as part of what Lauren calls a hits and habits strategy.

Welcome to TRB Conversations, powered by exco. We are here at Possible in Miami Beach. I'm joined by Lauren Benedict. Lauren, thank you for joining me today.

Thank you for having me, Brian. Let's- It's nice to be here. Yes. Let's talk about what's working in streaming from your point of view, 'cause you're, like, on the ground level with, with Roku.

So what is working? Y- yes, exactly. So, well, I've been with Roku for a year, and I oversee our global sales and partnerships for the company. So it's been an exciting, it's been an exciting time to sort of see the evolution of what's been happening in CTV and streaming and the role that Roku's playing for the viewer in terms of how they're accessing their content, and then for brands in terms of how they show up in a truly integrated way.

And so as we sort of lead into the upfront buying season, we're talking a lot about how fragmented this TV marketplace is. Yeah. Right? How challenging it is for brands to show up and reach audiences at scale in a really, like, consistent fashion.

And so you think about the upfront timeframe, and you think about, you know, the big networks, and they're all about, you know, they're talking about their big sporting events, the live sh- you know, the live events, the season premieres, the finales, all of these- Yeah... media moments. And those are more important than ever now because it's very- Exactly... infrequent because we're all just on our phones or something.

100%. So those... We, we like to sort of refer to those as the hits, right? Those big media moments.

And we love them because they're all on Roku. We, you know, we elevate those, those media moments. They're, you know, on our platform. But it's really kind of only part of the story.

And so we talk about, at Roku, we see our viewers coming through our front door 25 days out of every month- Yeah... to watch content. So they turn on their Roku, and they come through our front door as the lead-in to TV. And so when we talk about those hits, it's really kind of only part of the story, where we have also the viewer that's coming in every single day and seeking out what they wanna watch.

And it could be, you know, that comfort show. It could be the hits. But so it's sort of pulling together all of that content for the viewer and helping brands reach those audiences at scale, regardless of what they're coming in to watch. And so that's where I think it's been really exciting for us to be able to marry the hits and the habits for brand marketers to be able to reach audiences at scale when they're seeking out what they wanna watch, and they're, they're really paying attention to sort of the content that's around them- Right...

and they're sort of seeking out there. So, so we can really kind of help surface that content- Yeah... regardless of what those people are. And you're, like, the interface layer, right?

So, like, I mean, that's the sort of the, the habit part of it is that, you know- Yes... people go to the interface layer versus... I mean, I guess there's... I don't know if you see this.

There's probably, like, multiple habits within streaming in that, like... Okay, I wanna watch, like, Love Story. Oh, it's so good. I don't know why I'm thinking this.

It was just dis- discussed last night at dinner. [laughs] Ugh. [laughs] But I w- and I'm like, okay, I gotta figure out whether it's on FX. Is it on Amazon?

Is it something like that? And that there's, like, very directed viewing, but then- Yeah... I'm wondering, are, are you seeing that, that people are watching Roku? Yes.

So, so- You know what I mean? Like, we used to just, like... I used to just turn on ESPN. Like- Yeah.

No, I mean, I... It, it's, it's a really, it's a really good point, and so the, the sort of thing that a lot of people don't know is 50% of all streaming happens on Roku, right? So we talk about kind of being the lead-in to TV or sort of that front door to the consumer experience. So when they power up their TV, to your point, that's the operating system.

And so we're really kind of breaking down how the viewer can find content and how brands can show up in that passion in sort of the one, two, threes of what we're calling modern TV. So the one is the operating system- Mm-hmm... and that's really where we're the number-one operating system in the US, and that's that home screen, if you will. That's when they're coming to find Love Story or, you know, what's, what sporting event, whether it's the Super Bowl or, you know, the NBA playoffs.

Whatever it is that they're looking to watch, we can kind of be that, that sort of escort or helping people find in- that content through our front door. And we see those viewers, 125 million of them, every single day. So that's kind of one sort of area. And then the second piece of this, sort of the two of the one, two, threes of modern TV, is the Roku Channel.

And that's our, you know, our fast, our free ad-supported- Yeah... streaming TV. It's our, you know, our streaming service, and what a lot of people don't know is that the Roku Channel is aTop five rated app in the comfort zones of, like, Hulu and Disney and YouTube, and when you look at ad-supported, it's actually number two. So it's a really powerful proposition where we've got sort of that front door where ads can be integrated into our operating system and reaching audiences at scale when they're seeking out what they wanna watch in a very highly personalized, you know, viewing experience.

And then we've also got the Roku Channel, which is content where brands can also be, you know, kind of reaching audiences as they're, you know, tuning into their daily habitual- Yeah... TV content that they wanna watch. So I was a reporter at Adweek for, like, seven years, and I was doing the, like, internet stuff, or digital stuff- Yes... they started to call it.

And then I had all these colleagues at Adweek and at Mediaweek that were covering, like, TV. Mm-hmm. And, like, the conversations were like... Like, honestly, I didn't understand, like, the words they were using a lot of times.

John Console, if you're listening or watching- [laughs]... I had no idea what you were talking about, and I was like, "This is a totally different world." TRPs, CPPs- Yeah, yeah, yeah... GRPs.

And, like, you know, and then even, like, the up-fronts, I mean, from, from the beginning it was like... I mean, just, like, as, like, a young reporter, I was like, "This doesn't make any sense. I can't believe this is done this way," even back in, like, 2008. And I think the question has always been, is, is TV gonna become more like the internet, like, or is it gonna, is, is, is it going to sort of force...

Because, like, we're, we're here at Possible. There are a ton of ad tech players who used to be doing things on webpages- Yeah [laughs]... and now they're doing things in streaming, and I, I get it. It's more valuable, right?

Like, but how is the ad ecosystem developing in streaming different from how the digital advertising ecosystem has, has functioned? Sure. So, well, I sort of like to take a step back, and obviously brands wanna show up where viewers are tuning in, right? Yeah.

And so when we think about obviously the sort of tipping point of what became streaming CTV and where audiences are watching their content, sort of that's, that's sort of proof point one. But to sort of answer or address your, your question, it's all, in, in my mind, it's all about sort of creating currencies and measurement tactics that solve business problems for brands in terms of helping understand not only the audiences they're reaching, but how they're impacting the KPIs that matter to them, and that could be upper funnel, that could be, be all the way down to purchase behavior or true business outcomes.

And so to take it a step further, what we've seen, and, you know, sort of critical to, or sort of case in point to what is happening here at Possible, is, you know, Roku's taken a, an approach of being open and interoperable in the marketplace. So we actually surpassed a really cool milestone two weeks ago where Roku is in 100 million homes globally, which is really exciting for us. And why that matters in the context of the question that you're asking is because every single one of those homes is a logged-in, authenticated viewer.

So what that means is we know a lot about the viewer in terms of having a lot of deterministic data or signal in terms of what the streamer's watching and their streamer's journey, and that signal becomes really, really important as we think about what brands, how brands want to tran- you know, plan, buy, measure, and, and sort of optimize against different KPIs that matter to them. Yeah. And so we've taken a, an interoperable approach with the marketplace to take our data and marry it with partners' data, or whether that's, you know, retail media networks or, you know, working with third-party DSPs to make sure that we can start to have currencies that are more like for like with the performance lens that is kind of marrying, you know, business outcomes with the power of sight, sound, and motion.

Right. So long way of answering your question, but hopefully, I do think it's, like, about- Right. Well, TV was always branding. I mean, there was DRTV- Yeah...

but, like, it was more better thought of sight, sound, and motion- Yes... with, you know, emotions and telling a storytelling and whatnot. And the internet's always been a direct marketing medium really. Yeah.

And so, uh, I, I'm always interested in, like, where, where CTV will end in that, like, sort of continuum between, like, brand and, and direct. And n- with performance eating everything, it's going to be obviously a mix. Ex- exactly. I mean, I think the other piece of this is where linear TV or TV was very much sort of designed for a very specific set of advertisers, probably 2,000 brands that- Yeah...

could actually get a 15 or 30-second spot on, you know, a primetime show or the news or a sporting, live sports event. CTV has very much been n- the, the, the supply's not democratized, but in terms of being able to democratize it for brands, a diversity of brands. And so what I mean by that is it's not just about, you know, the big Fortune 500 brands, but now- Right... the sort of, like, the mid-tail and the SMBs that can also be on the big screen surrounding the best content.

And at Roku, we've got our self-serve platform that really does allow for brands of all sizes or advertisers of all sizes to really scale into CTV and execute a campaign that's as simple as, you know, the way they would've historically executed a- Yeah... social media buy. So it's really, like, helping the small to medium-sized businesses scale into the bay, into the living room and still having some of the like for like not only execution tactics, but really, like, the measurement behind it that allows them to sort of compare it to their digital channels.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much.

Thank you for joining TRB Conversations. Awesome. Thank you. [upbeat music] In this next conversation, I speak with Katie English, the global head of ad sales at Spotify, about how Spotify is using AI in advertising and beyond.

The mandate? No performative AI, sticking it all over the place. Welcome to TRB Conversations powered by Xco. We are here at Possible Miami Beach.

I'm joined by Katie English, the global head of ad product at Spotify. Katie, welcome. Hi, welcome. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So I wanna talk about, what else, AI and how it is changing- GreatThe ad product at Spotify. 'Cause you guys have been, I think, like, on the forefront of figuring out how to integrate- Yes... AI in the advertising product.

AI- Yes... has been integrated into everything- Of course... these days, sometimes with, you know, uneven results. Sure.

But tell us how you are thinking about it at Spotify. An excellent opening question, and of course, I knew we would talk about AI. It is such a buzzy, hot topic. We are really excited about the new power it is unlocking.

We're thinking about AI as really an amplifier, so it's not meant to replace. It's not meant to just sort of automate away. Mm. It's really meant to help augment what humans are doing, which we're excited about.

One of our principles in the product team is no performative AI, so to your comment around- Okay... mixed results, we're trying to avoid that. We really- There's a lot of people trying to hit OKRs by shoving AI in places it doesn't necessarily need to be. Right.

We wanna just sort of tack AI onto the end, put a little, like, glimmer in the UI and call it a day. Yeah. That is not how Spotify is approaching. What we're really thinking about is how we can solve real problems with AI.

I'll give you a perfect example. We are in an audio space. Not every advertiser has audio assets readily available. Exactly.

We've introduced some tooling into our ads manager suite over a year ago using generative AI to help advertisers make audio assets. It's been a huge force multiplier for advertisers who want to activate in our space but don't exactly know how to approach audio. In my example, I think it's a really good showing off of how AI can be a useful tool, filling a white space, as opposed to just sort of AI for the sake of AI. It's been really effective.

So how does that, like, work? 'Cause I- I know you guys were doing things of- Yeah... like cloning, like, people's voices and whatnot- Yeah. [laughs]...

in AI, which I'm interested in. I'm, uh, open to my voice being cloned. Come on down. We're happy to help.

Yeah. [laughs] Particularly for monetization purposes. We can scale you. This is great.

Yeah. [laughs] But tell me about how that works because I think one of the, one of the questions I always have with AI, and this might be me, like, as, like, a writ- Like, I know AI writing when I see it. Yeah. And I think people know it's not this, it's that.

100%. And there is almost... And I, again, I don't know how widespread this is. There is almost, like, a discounting effect of, like, AI content that is starting to, to take hold, and I feel like- I agree...

as people rush into shoving AI everywhere, there is the risk of it being devalued. It gets watered down. Yeah. If everything is AI, then nothing is special anymore and unique.

I completely agree. Let me talk about... I can talk about some of the tooling and the tech. Yeah.

But let me talk about the advertiser controls first 'cause I think that's the more important place to start with is- which is giving advertisers sort of full creative control. So what we think about is what are the prompts, what are the controls, what are the levers we should give advertisers so they feel like it's their creative voice? A brand is so carefully curated. The way you create your identity and your brand voice and your messaging is really intimate and personal to the brand.

AI should not erode that at all. It should be a tool that you can use to really bring that brand voice to new formats and to new audiences. So for instance, in our Gen AI tooling, we have a really large suite of voices we can choose from. This is where I'll talk about the tech.

You got a product person here, so I'm gonna tech nerd out just a little bit. Yeah, let's do it. We use employee voices, which is really fun, but we blend them so they're anonymized, and most of our voices are powered by our own proprietary first party tech, which we're quite proud of. We give a very wide menu of options, a very wide menu of tones, of sort of energies that you can apply to it, so the idea is that there's no one size fits all outcome that comes from using these prompted tools.

We also have a full library of extensive music, background tracks, et cetera, so the end result is really a very interesting Mad Libs of creative inputs from the advertiser, and it sounds really genuine, and it reflects the brand voice. We're really proud of that. It's kinda fun. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I want my voice to have an English accent- Come on down... if we can do that.

[laughs] We can, we can dabble in that, sure. Happy to try. [laughs] But how about on the video front? Yeah.

There's, I think, a lot of opportunity in that space, and I see that as sort of one of the next forays in this sort of generative space. Where Spotify has focused to date has been on audio, obviously, because that's where we see the most friction in advertisers coming to Spotify for the first time. But we of course have an immense amount of video inventory. Our video pods, for example.

Mm-hmm. People like to watch- Yeah... conversations like this live. So I think empowering advertisers with that tooling becomes an important next step in our m- maturation process.

Yeah. And I think the end result should be how you scale the number of advertisers that, that can be, like, on the platform. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, I think the one...

I think the biggest home run of digital advertising has been search advertising, and, like- Mm-hmm... a lot of that i- is, is because it's... You can have millions of advertisers when it's, like- Yeah... text and snippets of text.

Yeah. Obviously, advertisers love sight, sound, and motion. Mm-hmm. And the question is how you end up scaling it 'cause it's always been a fairly small, and, uh, only the largest companies typically have run- Yeah...

like, TV ads. Yeah. Less so on, like, radio, but- Sure. I think that's where AI becomes a real force multiplier.

It's an amplifier. It gives everyone sort of democratized access to the ability to do that scaled way of interacting with your audience. So when we think about on Spotify, our generative AI tooling has created, I would say, something to the tune of 20 to 30, 30,000 iterations of ads so far for several thousand advertisers, and we're seeing that number growing exponentially day over day, so the adoption has been really strong. For us, that signals that there's a real appetite here, something we're really excited about, and that means that we can really continue to scale that access to what you can access on Spotify.

Yeah. And how about the ad exchange? Like, give us an update on what's working there.Ah, so exciting.

So we're really, really proud of the growth that we've seen from the Spotify Ad Exchange. We launched just about a year ago. Mm-hmm. We've seen over 200% growth year over year in the advertisers active on the exchange, which is really exciting.

We've got integrations with something like 30-plus DSP partners at this point. So what we're most excited about is this momentum in bringing sort of Spotify access to advertisers everywhere, really giving a broader menu of choices for how you wanna buy with us. So if you don't wanna be in our ads manager, which we love, or if you don't wanna interact directly with us, of course, you have full access through any DSP that you want. So that growth story has been really impressive.

We're really quite proud of it. Yeah. So what is one change that, that we should look for in the next year in this space? Ooh, in AI space or in the Spotify Ad Exchange space?

No, no. [laughs] Just in, in general with, like, you know, audio. Let's just keep it to, to- Keep it-... sort of Spotify domains...

keep it constrained. Yeah. Sure. I think what we're most excited about is really continuing to prove out the true measurable value of audio.

You know, there's this idea that audio is out of focus, and we really challenge that idea. Audio is absolutely in focus. I say this all the time. We've somehow decided to value our eyes more than our ears, and I don't know why that is.

So- Yeah... we're really, really trying to c- encourage advertisers to use a full suite of measurement tools and really understand the very real performance-oriented role that audio should play in your buy. Yeah. It's funny.

While, while we are doing this by video- Yeah... I am, I, I am an audio-first- Yeah... podcaster, and I resist it becoming all video. Yeah.

I think it changes the product. This is my own personal belief. I like that. And I also think that I've created a lot of ty- types of content.

Mm-hmm. And audio, the human voice has a, a resonance to build a connection with people that is, I think, different than, than video, even though video obviously includes- Yeah... like, voice. I think it, it...

there's something different about it, and I know everything is going to, like, video podcasts, et cetera. However, I'm, like, staunchly pro-audio because people always write me and tell me what they're doing- Yeah... while they're listening to, to me. Mm-hmm.

And being part of, of, of habits. I mean, we always talk about- Mm-hmm... habits in media. Huge.

Being, being... Integrating with existing habits, walking the dog, doing the dishes- Yep... et cetera- Yep... commutes, is just as valuable these days as a companion.

One million percent. We see it in the Spotify user base. They spend on average two hours a day interacting with the app. They tell us it is an essential, critical companion to their day.

And you made such a great example. You're walking your dog. You're folding your laundry. You're in these really, like, intimate moments in your life, and you're bringing audio along with you on that journey.

So for advertisers to really tap into that sort of personalized experience is incredibly, incredibly powerful. It's really in focus, and it's really necessary. Yeah. Well, I was listening to Spotify on the way here, so.

What were you listening to? I was listening to music. Oh, okay. Fair enough.

[laughs] Awesome. Thank you, Katie. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time.

Thanks for having me. Really enjoyed it. [upbeat music] And in our final conversation, I sat down with Patrick Courtney, the chief business officer at Fuse Media, and we spoke about how the worlds of programmatic advertising and TV advertising are colliding. Welcome to TRB Conversations powered by XCO.

We are here at Possible in Miami Beach, and I am joined today by Patrick Courtney, the chief business officer of Fuse Media. Patrick, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me, Brian. So you've, you've been in the digital media space, but now you're kinda, like, in the TV space as it is meeting the digital media space.

And, you know, I've seen, like, the, you know, the story play out, and we've both, like, in, in digital media. And TV was always kinda separate to it. So what right now is happening to TV as it meets digital media? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, thank you for having me, Brian. I'm a big fan of the rebooting- Thank you... and your podcast. It's, it...

Like, this conference is like a, is a sort of microcosm that you just walk around and you can feel what's happening, which is technology, programmatic advertising. It's all coming for television, CTV. As more of television becomes, moves into streaming, the streaming advertising business is moving into television. It's all kind of colliding.

And so streaming economics are much different than traditional linear pay TV economics, and there are some harsh realities that people are starting, just starting to, I think, understand. We are working with partners who historically have built their businesses either in digital media or are just finding themselves starting to have exposure into CTV. You know, they might have IP. They have content libraries.

They have an audience potentially, but they don't know how to navigate television, streaming television, and that's across whether it's programming, how to source content, scheduling. If it's a f- a linear network, there's a, there's a science and an art to scheduling, to monetization, how to, how to sell this stuff, and we've been doing it for 20 years on the traditional linear side of the more of the programming, scheduling- Mm-hmm... operating channels and networks and content.

And this programmatic business is something that we leaned into back in 2018 when we started doing fast channels, and we've gotten pretty good at, at programmatic as well. And where direct sales and programmatic, which those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive either, are, is a real value. It's a real asset to know how to sell television, and so we're helping a lot of brands do that and navigate that, navigate this very disruptive and uncertain space. Yeah.

So I mean, you're changing the business, though, in some way. I, because I always feel like everyone's operating their old business and building, like, a new business. Yeah. I feel like w- with you guys, the old business is the paid TV business, and the new business is more like a B2B infrastructure business.

Yes. I will say the pay TV business is, is still a c- it's a current business. Um- Yeah, I know. I know.

[laughs] It's not old. I know. There's still a lot of people- I don't know. How am I supposed to say it?

Who may be age-wise, you know, say- [laughs] If I say legacy, if I say legacy, people don't like it, uh, you know, like- Traditional... you know what I mean. A little more traditional. Traditional.

Okay, fine. Traditional. I like traditional. Yeah, we still have pay TV networks, and we still, you know, we still s- pay very close attention to how that landscape's evolving.

But the growth areas are in streaming, and our partners across our, you know, traditional media relationships and, and i- u- understand this. They're all going through it, too. Everybody's going through that. Right.

Where a little bit, a little, you know, call even five years ago, it was a little more contentious about what you were doing in streaming versus what you were doing in traditional, and now all of that stuff is kind of merging together, and we're finding ways to work more harmoniously with partners to navigate that aspect. But yeah, it's a, it's a little, you know, innovator's dilemma that we have this traditional business that is not as... You know, the, the, the fixed costs are still there, and it's not as lucrative as it used to be, and but we need to invest in these growth areas.

And so we're kinda having, we're kinda stuck between these two places. But what we've been able to do is lean into partners who need the infrastructure that we have. Right. And we can, we can leverage this infrastructure, which has, has sort of moved us more into a B2B-like business.

You know, the Fuse Media programs, schedules s- sells, and monetizes streaming networks and content across streaming television, whereas historically, Fuse was this, the bright orange Fuse logo that people, you know, when, you know, ask, they, they, they, "Oh, I know F- I know Fuse." It, you know- Yeah... 20 years ago on the, on the, as a cable network, a music channel, all that kind of stuff. And we still have- I had a T-shirt.

Yeah. I mean, it, it was great. And, and f- and for a very long time, there, there was that audience that was, that was there, but we're, we're starting to realize that there are brands that grew up in this kind of new paradigm of connecting directly with audiences in these other, these alternative environments outside of pay TV cable, and we are realizing that we can work with them to build streaming television businesses, and that's starting to prove out- Yeah... to be pretty good, a pretty good business.

Are you, are you seeing the sort of fast gold rush kind of, like, taper off a little bit? Like, I just, like, wonder, like, how many fast channels can there be? Yeah. I mean, [laughs] I, I- It seems like there's a long tail that's, that's happening in fast.

There's definitely a long tail. There's definitely a, a consolidation that's happening, both on the platform side and those who operate fast channels. They're... Call it a, a gold rush, or it...

The, the viewership is there, right? Like, there's, there is a lot of viewership. The money hasn't followed quite as quickly. And so- Okay, so but there is viewership that, that- Oh, yeah...

can be monetized. Yeah. Okay. There is a lot of viewership.

Uh, to your point, you know, there is a very long tail, and do you need that long of a tail in these environments? Probably not. There's probably gonna be some culling there, and there's gonna be a sh- a shorter, m- you know, smaller amount of channels. There's also other things happening around personalization and, you know, machine learning that's, like, a- allowing for people to see just the channels that they typically watch, and so y- you're kind of eliminating the long tail, and it kind of works itself out that way.

We've invested historically in multicontent channels. We work with strong brands. You know, we just announced that we're working with Complex for Complex TV or Billboard for Billboard Español TV. We work with El Rey, Robert Rodriguez's Latino-focused brand, Out TV, the largest LGBTQ network.

So we partner with strong brands that have that staying power, and they have diversified businesses. They build audiences outside of television, and then we program the, program that. We have partnerships with all the studios to help make it feel like it's a network, and it's a, it's feels like cable. Those seem to have more staying power than, you know, a lot, the other 1,490 or so channels that are out there.

So w- that's where we're, we're investing. But I do think that more, you see more people focusing on A- AVOD, like on-demand content- Mm-hmm... for d- y- leveraging their libraries. There's a lot more licensing going on across the fast ecosystem.

They feel like, "Okay, well, my, my fast channel's only gonna have so much viewership, but if I license my content out, I have a lot more exposure across the, the entire ecosystem." So there's a lot of stuff that's going on there. I think it's just gonna take some more time for the advertising industry to understand how to buy CTV, how to buy fast in particular, and AVOD, and that's just, you're just gonna have to kinda survive that transition period. Uh, how are you seeing, you talk about working with digital media that, that are, they're not, like, TV native or, or, uh, you know, brands, right?

Like, getting into fast versus, like, their YouTube strategy. Like, wouldn't there be, like, an argument that since YouTube is primarily, now I think majority watched on TVs, that- Yeah... that's kind of, like, the TV strat- Like, why, why do you need a different strategy? I mean, look, there's been a lot of talk about the Nielsen gauge and whether, h- how accurate that is, but the last one that I saw, YouTube was, like, 13% of all television viewing.

So I mean, the vast majority of television is not happening on YouTube. Now, don't get me wrong. YouTube is growing exponentially. They're doing okay.

The younger- Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to go into why YouTube is, is great. Everybody should have a YouTube strategy.

But there is a, a massive opportunity that's outside of YouTube, and I think brand, like, I think all media companies are figuring out how they can diversify, whether that's, you know, getting into events or commerce or whatever. But there's still a lot of viewership happening outside of YouTube, and outside of YouTube is a much more complicated environment, right? I mean, you have to have distribution agreements. You have to have operational infrastructure.

You have specs and standards for content delivery. You have all these things to get yourself into all these other environments, and that's what we do. So when you have a strong brand with a- Yeah... a good library of content, and you need to get it into these other environments to capture that other 80% of TV viewing, that's where we come in.

Awesome. Patrick, thank you so much. Thanks, Brian. Yeah, appreciate it.