Ep 100: Unlocking Mental Fitness & High-Performance Leadership with Anna Mosley

Speaker A: I think recruitment agencies need to be more accountable for the questions that they are asking in that recruitment process. And I would be asking growth mindset led questions, finding out how hungry are they, how do they respond to curveballs, how open are they at, uh, learning new stuff? There's not enough questions like that. But unfortunately when we recruit just people who are really skilled, but really skilled, it could well be that that comes with a big fat E.

Speaker B: Anna Mosley, welcome to the Purpose Led Leadership podcast. Delighted to have you on the show. We've connected through a mutual connection. Um, tell the audience what you actually do.

Speaker A: I am a high performance coach and an international motivational speaker. I've got a business called 80 Growth Academy and we get leaders and teams mentally fit, adopting growth mindset to drive high performance culture in businesses specializing in the recruitment sector.

Speaker B: Ah. Uh, yeah. Well that's, that's a good thing. I want to dive deeper, delve into mentally fit. What does that actually mean?

Speaker A: So mental fitness for me? Well, firstly, it's a term that implies it's something you've got to work on daily. Which is why I love the words mental fitness. Mental. If someone's mentally fit, then they have clarity of thought. If you've got clarity of thought, it means that you are able to be in the now. We are only in our power when we are in the now. Wouldn't you agree? But don't. But don't most people spend their time with thoughts about the past, worried about what went wrong, pissed off with someone, or worried about the future? Know, anticipatory anxiety? It's very hard to be present. So mental fitness is a reflection of being present and being able to choose your response to whatever is going on around you. Now that takes skill. There's quite a lot involved.

Speaker B: I think the word response is important there because, and I've been guilty of this as well. So, um, you know, not as much nowadays, but reacting to stuff. And I think, I think I've done lots of psychology and work on myself. I've still got lots to do. But that ability and that skill set to, to breathe and pause is a skill in itself, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. You've got to create what I call an opportunity gap. Really simply for me, that is a deep breath. Mhm. But creating a gap between your first potentially unhelpful thought, which could be angry, anxious, and then realizing that actually a thought isn't a fact. Can I view this situation through a more helpful lens? And it's that self regulation is a really important starting point.

Speaker B: This thing I'm reading at the moment, I think I saw you talk about this on a different podcast where uh, you're better off almost, uh, confronting these so called negative feelings like shame and guilt and anger. And what I've done is write those down and then look at the actual opposite of that. And how can I flip that from not a negative to a positive, but what's what. What sort of techniques have you got around that kind of, you know. Because we all get negative thoughts, don't we?

Speaker A: Of course. Yeah, of course we do. And us humans have a negativity bias. We're more likely to worry. We're more likely to be fearful. I think it was Myers Briggs that I think it was, um, I think 64% or 68% of people have, are more likely to be negatively focused. We go to bed worrying about what we did wrong.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Rather than what we did right. I like when it comes to thought management, I like to talk about the importance of neutralizing your thoughts. We don't want to talk about unicorns and fairies here. Right. I'm not looking for everyone to have positive thoughts all the time. That's totally unrealistic. People have probably heard of toxic positivity. But what we got get good at is owning our second thought. Our second thought, Chris, because the first one might be unhelpful, but knowing you've got the choice to reframe.

Speaker B: Do you think that negative thoughts will always be there? It's just how you actually manage and, or how you manage them.

Speaker A: I do agree they'll always be there. But I think you can impact the ratio of helpful to unhelpful thoughts. Definitely. And I find the deeper our foundations are, uh, if we think about our, our foundations represent in our beliefs like the beliefs we have about ourselves and about life. The more helpful our beliefs are, uh, the deeper our foundations, the more helpful that ratio is.

Speaker B: I think that's right. Because I mean the, the education system doesn't help us, does it? We talk taught about algebra and longshore drift and God knows what else. Well, I think we should be talked taught about emotional intelligence and all this kind of.

Speaker A: So do I.

Speaker B: You know, Emotional regulation.

Speaker A: Yeah. I remember we had a subject, uh, called general studies at school when back in the day when I was doing gcses, which seemed quite forward thinking at the time. Absolutely. Kids need to be equipped with how do we. How do they create high self esteem from within.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: How do they manage their thinking? How do they start the day? Right.

Speaker B: I want to delve a bit Deeper into that. But why don't we go backwards a little bit, if you don't mind. And I ask everyone this on my show, um, paint us a picture of your journey since school include kind of, you know, any kind of adversity. Because I'm quite keen to understand. I think the best coaches in this world are the ones that have been through what they're teaching their coaches to be, to get through. As in, you've had some lived experience as well. So give us, give us a bit of an overview.

Speaker A: Well, going straight back to school, I mean, firstly, I've been really privileged to have a, uh, really lovely family upbringing, which I'm incredibly grateful for. In terms of school, what I would say is I was always a massive people pleaser. I wasn't the person you're looking at right now. I found it really hard to say no to anyone. I was very gullible, I was sporty. So I managed to have. I did manage to have quite a lot of friends. But there were no big issues at school other than me recognizing that I was way too much of a giver and wasn't confident in my own skin. But I was also always a high achiever. I had a mum that. I have a mum who, um, was a headmistress. So I was not because of her, but I was brought up in society, I suppose as well, to be chasing like the A stars and the marks and being the best. And I felt that pressure from a very young age and arguably I put that pressure on myself to an extent. But this chase to be the best trans transferred into what I, I would call perfectionism. And the perfectionism really did get very out of control throughout my career. So I was head girl at school. I've, um, captained a lot of sports teams. I was a real high achiever. And then I ended up getting on the l' Oreal grad scheme later on in life, which was very competitive. And it was chase, chase, chase. I'm good enough because I've done that. I'll only be good enough if I do the next thing. Chase, chase, chase.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, um, unfortunately, because of this lens through which I was viewing life, which I was always looking at what wasn't good enough, where I should be better, comparing myself to others. I wasn't very authentic at all, to be honest, Chris, As I say, people pleasing, lack of boundaries and just chasing all the time. And unfortunately, that took a really dangerous turn when I was in, um. I had some quite big roles at l' Oreal and beyond l' Oreal But I remember after my second child, this quest to be the best mum in the world and the skinniest and the best wife and an incredible global leader. I was working full time at the time, was just such a heavy weight and the inner voice just got brutal. It got really dark.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And um, after months of panic attacks and crying, opening the door to strangers, really strange behavior that I had never seen before. I recognized that I was 10 out of 10 on what I call the stressometer. I was out of control. I could never be present. I remember the mum guilt of just not wanting to tend to the cries and not being able to be a good wife for my husband. And it all came to a head, um, driving to work one day when I had a full on breakdown. My body just completely gave up on me. I was trying to achieve 110% and it's not possible, Chris. And um, I got to breaking point. At that point, literally my body wouldn't move. I sat in a car not knowing what the hell to do. And that was the eureka moment of shit. This isn't the life I want.

Speaker B: Sometimes we have to be stripped right back like that, uh, don't we, to realize what the hell we're doing.

Speaker A: We do. It was extreme burnout. But I think for anyone listening who can relate to my story of, you know, thankfully having quite a good upbringing and doing well in life, there's still such danger trying to chase to be the best. And, um, it really can have a detrimental outcome. I think perfectionism is one of the most dangerous thinking styles out there. That constant comparison.

Speaker B: Where did all this stem from? Then you talked about, you know, um, not being able to say no, being very gullible, being a giver, people pleaser. Uh, nothing's ever good enough. I mean, from a young age. Right, so where do you think, do you think that's hereditary or do you think it's indoctrinated from other sources? Was it. How do you. Because I mean, I think, I think it's a very, very common thing, isn't it?

Speaker A: It is. And I don't want to go too deep with this, but I do think it's partly to do with, um, the Catholic church a little bit. So I was brought up a cat, I was brought up a Catholic. It was always about helping everyone else and saying yes and being a good girl. Uh, I talk a lot about. I used to have good girl syndrome. I've labeled it good girl syndrome, which was always have to be good, clean nose. And I dressed like a boy As a kid, I played. I rolled in the mud, I played football. But I felt this pressure that I really should be in a dress and looking clean and saying the right thing. So there was a bit of that going on. And that good girl syndrome resonates with a lot of women that I work with.

Speaker B: With. Yeah.

Speaker A: Because I think it's a societal thing, that women should be on their best behavior all the time. And I think that was. That sat behind my expectation of myself. I always had to deliver to prove I was good enough to please others.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But you can't go through life like that, Chris. No. It's inauthentic.

Speaker B: When you say. Yeah. When you say a eureka moment. I don't, um, believe for one minute that you kind of went from sort of one personality to another. You got. Was it a transition? What that was, that was a turning point. So tell us about kind of like that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So the, the eureka moment was in the car. My body wouldn't move. And a voice, there was literally a voice that went, this is not the mum or the leader or the life you want to have or be. It is time to do something about it. And I knew at that point I needed to step out of the corporate world.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I got myself an incredible coach. And I went through a, a process of what I would describe as deepening my foundations, building my self esteem. I'd never had high self esteem before. The world thought I had it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because I seemed confident, but I wasn't really confident at all.

Speaker B: I love your lens on you being inauthentic. Because people think that being a people pleaser, being a nice guy and doing all these things is, is authentic and genuine. But actually there's, there's evidence to say that it isn't. Right.

Speaker A: No. Because it can clash with your values. Right. I didn't know. I didn't bloody know anything about values until I became a coach. But I now know that that was a massive value clash. And I do. I've coached thousands of people and there are a lot of people who recognize when I'm coaching them, they, they learn for themselves that, ah, I've been living my life through someone else's lens or, or by someone else's values. Usually parents.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or maybe sometimes it's societal. It's religion based.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I really think we need to know who we are.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What we want out of life. And we meet. We need alignment with how we're actually living our life. So there's an audit I do with my clients to see Whether the gap, where the gaps are.

Speaker B: Okay, let's hear about that. Gives a little bit of an insight.

Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the sessions that I uh, that I offer is called a life audit. And what I'll do is I'll draw out the, the life values and sometimes I do career values as well of a client as in how they truly want to live their life. What are the things most important to them? We rank them in order. I really go deep with why, why does that matter? And then what I do is get them to rank, uh, to give a mark in terms of a percentage of fulfillment against each of those values.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. It's where they are now and how important they think it is. And then. Well, if it's, if it's 10 out of 10 importance, why are you spending half an hour a week doing that?

Speaker A: Exactly. But you know what shows up all the time, Chris, is that those percentage levels of fulfillment next to, let's say their top five values can be 5%. Yeah, 30%. And it is like an effing wake up call. Yeah, the most beautiful wake up call. Because they're like. It's the misalignment that has been causing that feeling in my gut that something ain't right.

Speaker B: Because, because I do a similar thing. Like there's six things in mind. Business, personal development, relationships. I won't tell them all, but uh, where I went wrong personally was I built a massive multi million pound business, but I put 99 of all my effort into that business and then I kind of lost everything because I thought achieving these business goals would sort my life out. But actually the business is one element of your life. It's about being, you know, the CEO of your life. Being, you know, it's about life.

Speaker A: CEO of your life. Yeah, uh, yeah, exactly. There's something missing. It's not just about the money or the job title. I'll tell you what else is really interesting, Chris. When I've um, I've coached some like senior execs from big, from big businesses who've gone into retirement and then really struggled. And that is because all their self esteem had come from the job title and the money and the respect and they'd never really process the person who they really were. Like I teach people to reflect on their qualitative traits. Uh, I am kind, I, I am progressive, I'm a great learner. Rather than I am rich or I

Speaker B: am this title that is all you need is. I think that one of the most important things you can learn is, is, is, is Self love. Not in an egotistical way, obviously.

Speaker A: No, of course. And in a sense of power. Yeah, that's how I would describe. It's an inner sense of power that enables you to live that authentic life in true alignment. It's a beautiful thing. And let's be honest, at the end of the day, when we're, um, on our deathbed.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker A: Does it really matter how much money we earn or.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, the job title we had, it. It matters that we. We were a good mum or dad or whatever.

Speaker B: So you're kind of going through all the anxiety and the pressure that you had as a youngster and then now being, you know, I can feel your energy. It's amazing, infectious. You know, you don't become, you know, a great speaker and, you know, overnight you say it must be a journey, but it was a journey. What sort of trials and tribulations have you had along that way? Because things like public speaking, for example, it's not easy. I'm sure the first time you did it, you were shitting yourself and kind of stuff. I don't know.

Speaker A: Well, weirdly, Chris, I'm one of the very few people that always love speaking, so that. Yeah, I never struggled with that. I think in terms of my speaker journey, because I speak globally now, as you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: My. The thing to share there is, which I think might really help people listening in is when you've got a strength, because it was a strength, even like being ahead. Being head girl, I did a lot of theatre when I was younger. I always was quite confident speaking in front of people. But the learning for others listening in here is when you've got a strength, go and make it better. Because I remember signing up for quite an expensive speaker course, which I'm still investing in.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, um, I remember some people going, why have you gone and spent all that money already? Good speaker. I said, uh, because I've got a growth mindset and there's always more to learn. And now that I've learned, you know, the psychology behind speaking, anchoring, where to stand, body language, how to appeal to all the different social styles in the audience, stuff that I didn't know before, Chris, it's taken me, it's elevated me to another level.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And it, for me, it's about unleashing the extraordinary. That's the strap line for 80.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And for me, the ordinary with speaking was pretty decent, but now I'm unleashing the extraordinary.

Speaker B: Yeah, go back to the 80 rule, please. Because I think. I think People want to be this. Most people want to be like, you've got to give 100 all the time. I don't think that's necessarily achievable.

Speaker A: I think it's. I think it's foolish is what I think it is. I think anyone will know that if you've given 100 over a prolonged period of time, it will lead to burnout and physical symptoms. I am really passionate about teaching people that you can achieve 100% performance if you apply the 80% rule 99% of the time. Course, there are times when we have to step up to 100. Right. If I'm on a stage, I'm at 100.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course.

Speaker A: Um, if my kids are off sick and I'm juggling work, I'm at 100. But I'm so mindful of protecting my. Let's call it energy management, Chris. That's what it is. I've got to recharge my battery and also I want to be pouring into all these different cups of life. Like you said, it's not just work. No.

Speaker B: Sometimes the best thing you can do for your business is step away from it and do something non business related. Like for instance, I've got a PT now four times a week and it's 12.

Speaker A: That's great.

Speaker B: 12 till 1. It's an immovable meeting.

Speaker A: Non negotiable.

Speaker B: Literally. And that's transformed my ability to be more present in business. Is that, is that kind of approach, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. Because you're more productive in business. Right. Because you are putting your own oxygen mask on first. And I think, I know you're so passionate about purpose. Purpose. It is about also having a passion or a hobby. The number of clients I've said, what's your hobby? And they're like, um, I don't think I have one.

Speaker B: No, it's really important, but we've got

Speaker A: to do more of what makes us happy.

Speaker B: Yeah. So you, you started to work for some big brands like l'. Oreal. Talk us through from there on forwards. That's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, so I've been coaching and training for probably six. I've lost track of time now. Six, six or seven years now. 80 Growth Academy launched, uh, January last year, so it's about a year and three months old. But I've. When I started training and going into businesses, what I was passionate about is taking this mental fitness for high performance message into the corporates.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I've worked with some great brands. LinkedIn, L', Oreal, Boots, right. Sackler, um, ghd.

Speaker B: How did you get into those big brands? That's not an easy thing in itself to do that. Was it just your passion or was it your, your ability to network and sales or was it. How did you break into these?

Speaker A: Well, firstly, I believe that relationship capital is way more important than financial capital. So I've got good, great connections, people who knew me as a high performer at l' Oreal or knew me from uh, previous. Chris, you've got to use your network. Right. But the other thing is, is that what we're doing with 80 Growth Academy is so refreshing. It is, it is really disrupting the training industry and these big brands are like, oh, this is, this is different. Anna is very real. I, uh, like that it's complicated topics made simple. Yeah, it's a refreshing approach. It's quite an edgy brand. Whereas training in the past, Chris, can be so bloody boring.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think with the advent of more social media and you know, things like, we'll talk about vulnerability, but even five, 10 years ago, things like mental health and vulnerability, they were, they were kind of shunned or laughed at. I think now this like uh, a currency in itself is have vulnerability.

Speaker A: These big companies are really interested in wellbeing now, aren't they? They have been for a while, yeah. They're also interested in being high performing. And what I'm doing is bridging the gap between the two so we're getting leaders and teams mentally fit so that that company can get better commercial results. So that's the beautiful.

Speaker B: So I bet, I bet you get a lot of kind of. There's different types of leaders, isn't there? There's, there's the ones that they. Yes, there are, they know it all. There's ones that. Yeah, you know, we'll talk us through what you found in terms. And you know, I think that um, I think the best leaders, the ones that want to, want to learn, basically, in my opinion.

Speaker A: I couldn't agree more with you. Let's talk about what I see more often than not, though. Unfortunately, um, firstly, most, most leaders have never been taught how to lead. Most people, and that's not their fault. Um, and companies need to take more accountability for this. They've often normally been put into that role because they were good at their job. So that doesn't mean they'll be a good leader. And for that reason, unfortunately, what I see more often than not is poor leadership. In fact, I see a load of managers that don't know how to lead.

Speaker B: Yes, and there's a difference between managing and leading obviously, isn't uh, there.

Speaker A: Yeah. And many people don't realize the difference. So I would describe managing as being transactional. You're in the weeds. It's the uh, the nuts and bolts of the. It's very important. You've got to wear that hat. But leading is about the bigger picture stuff. It's visionary. It's about, um, it's about developing your team, unlocking the leaders of the future. It's. It requires more headspace. It requires the headspace to have a growth mindset, to think bigger and beyond management.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think management is possibly more kind of. You can look at sort of data and factual stuff where I think maybe task driven. Yeah. And I think maybe leadership has things like. They call it soft skills, but things like empathy, compassion, vulnerability.

Speaker A: Definitely.

Speaker B: Intellig.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. But what I see more than often, uh, well, I'll tell you. So I'll tell you the six. I've got to remember them now. There's six bad bosses that I've identified. Right. Um, and they don't take much explaining. So one of them is the dominator. Uh, that is the boss that uh, is really wants the power and the. And the team are scared and that fear means that they don't innovate. There's no ideas. They just, they don't enjoy what they're doing. There's a high turnover rate. The next one is the perfectionist leader. And I used to be the perfectionist leader, so I very much identify what I used to be. The perfectionist leader is obsessed over the end result. Highly critical of their team. They don't notice the small wins or the progress.

Speaker B: And that's really demoralizing as good or better than them. M. No matter what.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's a lot of pressure and they don't have a very balanced life themselves so they model this unhelpful work life balance. Often another one is the thief. The thief is the thief is the boss that nicks the credit for what you do. I've had one of them before.

Speaker B: I've been a dominator and a perfectionist myself in the past, but I don't think I've been a thief. But I probably have been guilty in the past. Who knows? But yeah.

Speaker A: The other one I've been in the past is the people pleaser. Uh, as you. Which won't surprise you. Even though I was a pretty good leader, I wanted everyone to be my friend. That actually isn't cool. And so uh, at times I didn't toe the company line or I didn't see things from a strategic point of view because I'd rather keep my team happy.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think a good leader, a good manager, good coach, often knows what hat to wear, when and to whom. So some people want a bit of a cuddle, some people want a director kind of kick up the ass. But. But if I was to summarise it, I think that you need to tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. What do you think?

Speaker A: Absolutely. You gotta tell people what they need to hear. I think that is the coach hat that a leader should wear at times. Yeah. Guiding them to that bigger picture. And then we've got the, um, I'm too gooder.

Speaker B: I love this.

Speaker A: It's fun, isn't it? The I'm too gooder. Ah, is the boss that sits in his ivory or her or their ivory tower. And, uh, they just look down at the minions and there's no rapport building. They don't make them. They don't go to the warehouse to see the team.

Speaker B: They're not asking people to do what they're prepared to themselves kind of situation. They're just. They're above all that, right?

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And then we've got the stuck in the right leader, and that's the fixed mindset. My way or the highway. They don't think bigger.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so they stifle, they stifle growth because no one wants to give an idea to someone who's so fixed.

Speaker B: So what I found out on my journey is, you know, I do, uh, operation sales and we can do all that kind of stuff, but it's these kind. Often it's the ego, it's the personality, it's the makeup of. So how do you break down, you know, a dominator or perfectionist? You know, they're set in the ways. How do you. What sort of techniques do you. Do you use?

Speaker A: Well, the first thing to do is share what these avatars, if you like, are. Because we can all relate to one of them.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: No one's perfect. I, uh, would like to sound perfectly imperfect. I can relate to what I used to be. So it's educating on what these avatars are to raise awareness. Because self awareness is critical in leadership. It's like, what are my blockers as a leader? And you know what, it goes way beyond leadership. What are my blockers and limiting beliefs as a person? I like to see the leader as a whole person. It's about their whole life.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Leadership's Just one aspect of it, as we've said.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we've got to get people firstly, wanting to make the change step one.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, of course.

Speaker A: Secondly, then we've, we've got to deepen the foundation so that they have the headspace to be able to be more self aware. And then we've got to get them self managing or self leading more effectively. Like catching themselves out when they're being a perfectionist. And then you want them trained so they're thinking, oh, I've just realized I focused on what wasn't good enough with my team. I'm just going to go back and say, well done for what did go well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So self awareness is a huge part of the puzzle.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: But let's not forget the mental fitness piece at least come first.

Speaker B: But that's an ongoing thing, isn't it? Mental fitness, that's not a quick fix, right?

Speaker A: It's not a quick fit. No. But we can. I, I do teach leaders early doors how to build high self esteem and high self belief, which helps stabilize that mindset. Because if you think of it like a building, when people have got, or when a leader's got shallow foundations and they've got low self esteem, which many do have.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And they, and they've got unhelpful beliefs. For example, I can't deal with conflict in my team. I can't manage upwards very well. I always have to say yes to the boss. When, when they've got those shallow foundations, it means that they're building which is their mindset is rocky.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And when we've got that rocky building, it represents unhelpful thinking which could be, that could turn into the perfectionist leader. Uh, or the leader that overthinks or that catastrophizes. We need these leaders to stabilize the building, so to speak, before they even think about leading the rest of the team.

Speaker B: So specifically then, is it, is it teaching them to talk to themselves in a better way as an example?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's one, that's one aspect I think once you've built higher self esteem and I teach people how to do that by notes, by noticing that. It sounds so basic, Chris, but noticing what they have done well, having a record, I call it the evidence list of things, things that they have done well and what it says about them. Because we really want to be linking an affirmation to evidence of things that we've done. So I take them, there's much more to it than that. But I take them through that process of building Their self esteem. And a byproduct of that is a more helpful inner voice.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: But then I want them to take control of starting their day with the right inner voice.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know that cheerleading, you really can control the voice in your head.

Speaker B: I think half the battle is though it's almost befriending them because, because, because uh, a leader can be that a leadership role can be one of the loneliest roles. And uh, often, often they're entrenched in, in the performance of the business and the team and as you say, it's understanding what makes them tick. Outside of work. Do they have a hobby? What are the relationships like? What's their diet like? Are they exercising? Having a conversation around kind that kind of stuff can be just as valuable as improving their communication in the business as well.

Speaker A: Definitely. And it all relates to their productivity and their focus. They're happy outside of work, they'll be more focused. I talk a lot about, you may have heard me talk about this stressometer, this idea that like a revometer in a car that goes from like 0 to 10. We want leaders being able to self lead, bringing that dial down. You know, exercise helps with that. Eating well helps with that. Sleeping enough helps with that. Because if they can keep self leading and bringing their dial down that keeps them in what I call the high performance zone.

Speaker B: I love that. I think that comes down to experience because I've had burnout three times. I'm m never going to get it again right now.

Speaker A: Not going to allow it.

Speaker B: I'm not going to allow it absolutely. Because right now I'm known going I'm running around like a blue ass fly. But I'm counterbalancing that, insisting that my diet's good and I'm working out. I'm only working a bit harder because I need to but, but I know for a fact if I don't keep up my, my um, my workout or my, my thing, I'm going to fall down. So it's just kind of like it's knowing that sometimes you have to move and shake a little bit, isn't it?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, you do. But you do need non negotiables in your life and you've got that. What did you say? 1 till 2 or 12 till 1 12.

Speaker B: 12 till 1. 4 times a week. That's. Yeah.

Speaker A: How powerful is that though? We should all be time blocking. Not, not just for, I don't know, strategizing or having your one to one should be time blocking for your bloody.

Speaker B: It's in, in your Diary. Absolutely.

Speaker A: Date nights.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If you've got a partner.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Huh. Exercise like you're doing. We should be time blocking for our life.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And seeing ourselves as a whole person.

Speaker B: I think I've been guilty of this as well. I think a lot of people in this world, Right. That they, they're purposeless. I don't mean that in, in a distant, in a, in a um, derogatory way. That's it. In terms of like we go to work, we get our money, we spend it, we go to work. It kind of can be quite robotic if we're not. Not sort of have a, have a wider lens and self awareness of. Right. Why am I actually doing what I'm doing apart from getting some, some feedback from my colleagues or whatever, you know.

Speaker A: And this is why I flipping love doing this um, this um, life audit I mentioned earlier, where I get ah, people to stop. Stop the crazy rat race of life and reflect on what, what is my life like right now? Because we're all in autopilot.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I use that word a lot.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker A: You might have heard me say that. 90 of our thoughts are the same as yesterday. We're all just on repeat driven. You know, your thoughts are driven by the programs running in your brain that have been going on since uh.

Speaker B: Your mind is so cluttered. You've got to kind of like declutter your mind, create some space in your mind and enjoy the times where you know. Because I'm, I think you're like me is like we're better now. But I used to have to do something, you know, even sitting on the sofa. Oh, I, I didn't feel I was productive by just sitting down and actually just stopping. The ability to do nothing, pause, not even listen to music and just actually stop. It's things like that that is a hard skill in this day and age.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because we are ah, so impulsive, aren't we? And like I have an urge to check my phone all the time and I hate, I hate that. But that's why I say you're only in your power when you're in the now. And it's just, you have to be disciplined. Not only do you have to be mentally fit, but you have to be disciplined to do that. And that's when you will do your best work. Be the most creative you can be. Tailor your approach or whatever it might be. It's hard to do it. Even as a coach, I find it hard to do it.

Speaker B: You can get the best ideas when you're stepping away from Things and kind of, it's, gosh, yeah, you know, but it's hot. It's, you know, leaders just feel as if they need to be on 24 7. That's, that's, that can be. I say slow down to speed up.

Speaker A: I say, yeah, but it is foolish not to, it's foolish to have your foot to the pedal. But they think that they're doing the right thing because I've been there, I thought I was doing exactly what I should be. Overworking, showing up all the time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I was never showing up for myself, let alone my family.

Speaker B: So you've done some work with lots of different recruiting businesses, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I've honed, really honed into the recruitment, um, sector specifically. Although I work across all industries.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I flipping love recruitment because it is a really vibrant, it's a vibrant space. I love the challenges that agencies face. I love the curveball because, yeah, what I'm teaching is, is leaders and teams to be able to respond powerfully to change curveballs. Um, adversity. I mean there's a lot of rejection.

Speaker B: There we go, there we go. It's not taking it personally and all that kind of stuff, isn't it? You know?

Speaker A: Yeah, there's the rejection aspect but there's also like the market's ever changing. So yeah, I love to get teams firing on all cylinders from a, uh, performance point of view. But I like to get them so resilient that they become ultra agile. And I think in this market recruitment agencies need to be incredibly agile, especially with the fast paced tech changes and everything else we've got going on.

Speaker B: I think you're so right. I, I, I think process, market mapping, understanding of the recruitment is really, really important. But I think in recruitment because we're dealing with people and their ability to just literally change their mind on a whim. And we're not saying a book watch, a car, a pen. It's a person. You know, there's so many different things that can happen. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's coaching and training and instilling a sense of, of resilience, isn't it?

Speaker A: And calm under pressure.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Plus we want that recruitment team comfortable, being uncomfortable. We want them stepping out their comfort zones to try something new. So there's a phrase I love which is if it ain't broke, break it now. That goes hand in hand with my um, strap line. Unleash the extraordinary. I want to get recruitment teams in the right headspace. They're mentally fit, their dial is down, the stressometer is down and therefore they're thinking how can I make this, this better? How could I communicate more effectively to close that deal?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: How could I adjust how I approach, I don't know, the marketing team or whatever it might be.

Speaker B: But also no doesn't always mean no. You can turn things having, having the, the ability to ask the extra question. Uh, and actually um, sometimes a human being will say something to you and you'll interpret it one way but without being curious and asking questions and going back. It's just having that confidence to challenge.

Speaker A: And I think as well this favorite, my favorite word you've just said there is curious like curiosity.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is an amazing thing. And, and I know we're probably going to speak about vulnerability but you've got to be vulnerable. Allow yourself to be vulnerable to be the one who asks the questions.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's really is a strength.

Speaker B: Talk to me about your own vulnerability then. What examples have you?

Speaker A: Well, I can remember many examples when I wasn't. I used to hate stepping out of my comfort zone and unless I was the best, I wouldn't try it. The thing now I have heart on my sleeve all the time. As you can probably tell you're similar and I love that. And, and guess what? You connect, uh, you connect with people to a whole nother level when you're real.

Speaker B: Do you get nervous and anxiety and that kind of stuff or not?

Speaker A: Now I very rarely experience anxiety unless it's something to do with my child health wise which uh, has happened. And then I have to really. I know how to manage it though.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank goodness I've got a good toolkit in my back, my back pocket. But in general I don't create anxiety. I have a firm belief that anxiety does not happen to us. It's something we create. And therefore because I know how to keep my self esteem high, it seems impossible for me to create it to a bad deal.

Speaker B: So people who suffer from anxiety and they hear you say you're self creating that. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's a really, that's a difficult one. I would only really dig into that with a coaching client who I have educated on what is interesting.

Speaker B: I think, I think, I think there's something. You're right but I think I'd. Let's explain this. What, what, how do you create your own anxiety?

Speaker A: Yeah, well let, I'm going to answer that question but I just want to firstly say that when we, when we feel powerful, we can't create stress and anxiety. We can't m. It's impossible. We can't create crappy thoughts when we feel powerful. Right? When we feel powerless, that is when we create stress and anxiety. I like to make things simple. And that is it's fact. That's the case. So therefore, to answer your question, is it not incredibly powerless to think that anxiety is happening to me because it gives all the power to this thing?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I am in my power. If I recognize that it's the lens through which I'm viewing the curveball, the divorce, whatever it might be. It's the lens that's creating the thoughts. It's the thoughts that's creating the anxious feeling in my tummy that's making me shake or whatever. But we've got to track back to the lens. So I teach people how they can remain in their power in the now by managing that lens. And if you manage it effectively, and yes, it takes some training, but not much, you will reduce your anxiety.

Speaker B: It's. You're feeling anxious, but doesn't make. Doesn't mean you are anxious. Is it that kind of thing?

Speaker A: Well, your thoughts aren't fact, but the feelings of anxiety are absolutely real. You know, the physical symptoms real.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course.

Speaker A: But Chris, if I was to, um, imagine myself having a headache now over and over, I would, I would have a headache, I shit you not. So we can mitigate. So if I am feeling on edge because of the girls or whatever, something's wrong with them, had some real health issues with one of them, which has been hard, it's okay now, actually. But that was tough. And, um, I know that I can, if I view it through a helpful lens, if I control the control. The controllables is a great phrase. Usually when people are creating anxiety, it is anticipatory anxiety. They are worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So, yeah, there's a great phrase that I said to someone just earlier today, which is, anxiety is like paying interest on something that hasn't even effing happened yet.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I am so all over energy management. Why the frig would I waste my energy on that?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I get that. I think there's some studies on it. Like 85% of what you think is going to happen doesn't happen anyway. Kind of, you know.

Speaker A: I know, wasted energy. Right. So it's really helping people. Obviously I can't do that in one podcast, but it's helping people understand that we've got to take the power back. We've got to stay in the driving seat. We've got to learn to manage that lens.

Speaker B: And I think it starts with things the simple. Not simple, but, you know, learning to breathe and pause and kind of.

Speaker A: That's really helpful.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, that's, that's helpful, isn't it?

Speaker A: There's lots of great techniques, but I think there's no better technique than building your self esteem. Because that inner sense of power as I like to call it just means that it's so much harder for your brain to, to throw up. Unhelpful thinking.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You're more likely to feel calm.

Speaker B: Talk about, let's talk about fear as well. So I've, I've had a. I know you've, I've looked at your stuff and you do, uh, people with addictions and

Speaker A: phobias and in the past I have

Speaker B: all that kind of stuff. And I did my first speaking gig at the Expo. Um, now I remember that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I saw you very pleased about.

Speaker B: Well, uh, done you. I've got, I've got some more stuff coming. Um, and I've still got a bit of fear around it. So what advice would you give me or anyone around that sort of public speaking thing that. It's one of the most common things, isn't it?

Speaker A: Basically, but absolutely. Well, there's. God, there's a lot of, a lot of techniques that um, that help when it comes to public speaking. I guess the first thing to acknowledge is that honestly, everyone in our audience that they're rooting for you is the first thing. Right. So you've got to have the right lens on. I'm going back to the lens again. You've got to go on that stage with the right lens.

Speaker B: Do you think that the more I keep bloody saying I'm scared, I'm fearful

Speaker A: of, of public speaking, self fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker B: Become that.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. We got, we've got to stop labeling ourselves. Um, I'm someone who gets nervous when I go on a stage. Well, your body's just going to respond to that. Why aren't we visualizing how we want our body to be? So what I would suggest, one thing as a technique is visualize yourself having already done the talk and you're feeling powerful, you're feeling really chuffed because you can trick your body in the present moment to thinking it's done something that it hasn't done yet. So that's one technique. Another great little one for you is, um, it depends on your personality type. But what you watch or listen to before you go on that stage really matters.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So whether for Someone that is something really uplifting and motivating. So because I'm such a high energy person, surprisingly what I watch before I go on stage is videos of my kids. It chills me out.

Speaker B: Yeah, you've got, you've got the energy and you've got really sort of got your pumped enough already because what.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Because what I've learned is, is you want your talk to be like a song. And although everyone does like my energy in general, I don't just want to be up here like that. I want to start chilling and I want to get them excited.

Speaker B: A lot of it is like, although you've got to project your voice to the extent. But isn't it like literally trying to have a conversation. Talk. Not talking at your audience, it's talking to them, would you say?

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And it's being you. I think you'd be really brilliant at that anyway. But a lot of people change who they are and like, don't just be real. Yeah, be yourself. I'm quite colloquial and um, relaxed in my style, which, well, that's just who I am. It would be stupid to put on an act. But I also think body language plays a big part, Chris. Like how you stand before you even get on that stage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like power posing really helps.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So what is your. We're talking about purpose and it's the purpose the leadership podcast. But how would you describe what is your purpose?

Speaker A: My purpose is to unlock the potential of as many people as a possibly can. I mean I've got my sights on unleashing the potential of millions of people around the world whilst. Whilst still unleashing m. My own.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So unleashing the potential of others while still unleashing my own and modeling to my girls because I've got 10 and an 8 year old Millie and Daisy that absolutely you can have it all. Yeah, that's my purpose.

Speaker B: So you'll continually want to evolve and learn and grow yourself.

Speaker A: I will always have a growth mindset and I think it's a really wonderful trait in people. I mean I was drawn to you because I could tell you did my mentor, Adam Stott, who you. Um, we've had a loose conversation. He has got such a growth mindset and he is so successful and I admire that.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I actually choose not to spend too much time with fixed mindset people.

Speaker B: But that's a massive point, isn't it? Who you surround yourself with. I know everyone says it but it's so important. So true.

Speaker A: Yeah. You are the average of the five.

Speaker B: I've moved negative people out of my life and that's awesome. I think, I think that's, I think saying no to someone else, saying yes to you is that, that all builds confidence and mental fitness, doesn't it? All. That's all this kind of stuff.

Speaker A: But it's a sense of control, isn't it? You know what I said earlier about you? It's about feeling powerful. The more powerful you feel, the more helpful your headspace. It's a very powerful thing to say. I choose not to hang out with them people anymore. I choose to time block the PT four times a week. I'm choosing that this is all to do with feeling in the driving seat. And at the end of the day in life as a human, you want to be feeling in control.

Speaker B: What's your Achilles heel, would you say what you, what sort of things do you think, um, hold you back or cause you issues still, even though you've done lots of work on yourself and you're an amazing coach, you're still.

Speaker A: However, there's always stuff to be working on. It might. I laugh at my. Because my strengths are absolutely my weakness organization. I can be quite. Okay, well, uh, in terms of what I'm delivering to business, it's top notch. But behind the scenes, behind the scenes I'm quite messy. Um, I get really excited about new things. So for me completing tasks, I have to. I've learned how to self manage. You know, one of my major messages is self leadership. But I've learned that I have to time, block time to complete a task. Otherwise I know I will be going to like 10 different things.

Speaker B: Oh, I do this all the time. If you give someone two days to do something or you give them two hours to do it, they'll do it in whatever time you give them to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's, it's this, it's the shambolic preference that I have which actually I know I annoy myself with it. M. That is my downfall.

Speaker B: You want to take on as much as you can and just. Is that what it is or.

Speaker A: Well, I just, I like the bigger picture stuff, Chris. I like being in a room of people. I love people. I don't like boring, mundane tasks. But if you're going to run a successful business, you have to have the discipline to do the shit you don't want to do. And that's what I find hard.

Speaker B: Can you give me some examples of when, um, you've had to kind of be quite fierce with, with Someone or the leader and kind of like give them some, him or her or them some home truths, all that kind of stuff, you know, some examples around, you know, turning someone around maybe.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I won't name any names because obviously it's confidential. But there was someone in quite a big business recently who, who is an absolute high achiever. So how many did they have in the team? I think that's six. This is a very like C suite level. Six people in their team. One of the most intelligent. They worked. I won't say what, in fact I won't say the um sector because I think the person might guess who I'm talking about. But they're incredibly intelligent. They're known for their intelligence and they're a red personality, meaning they're really bothered about results. So they're very fast paced, very intellectual. Now when we did like 360 degree feedback of their team, what came back was this bloke is amazing at what he's achieving in terms of the results for the business. He's driven it forward. However, he has zero empathy.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: We feel like he doesn't listen to us, we feel he talks over us. Um, we feel that he, it's his way or the highway. And there was all this fallout like he wasn't appreciating the journey. And it was an incredible turnaround coaching him. I wondered how coachable he would be at the beginning. Uh, and long story short, by the end of this, I think it was probably three months of coaching and us having meetings with his team for him to present what his commitments were off the back of what he'd learned. He has become so much more of an empathetic leader. He has shared with a real growth mindset, shared what he's recognized as his drawbacks have been.

Speaker B: But he's much more approached, approachable as well.

Speaker A: And he's commit and he's much more approachable. He's committed to what he's going to change and he's involving them more in conversation. He's not talking over them, he's giving them space. And that's been a. Ah, uh, the company was shocked at the transformation because

Speaker B: I think, I think, I think some people get the, the, the perception that a leader is someone who needs to be um, stoic, dictatorial, ruthless and you

Speaker A: know, that's the dominator, isn't it?

Speaker B: And we don't want.

Speaker A: No. But this is why, this is why leadership is the hardest role in any company, Chris. Because you've got to wear so many hats.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it really, it is nurture, uh, not just nature. I know I would say I was born quite a natural leader. Uh, but my God, I've learned what I've known today. I would be such a better leader now off the back of what I've learned than what when I was back at l' Oreal or these other companies.

Speaker B: Yeah. Give me some examples of your own challenges as a leader yourself. I'm sure you've had some as maybe some.

Speaker A: Some back in the day. Oh, yeah. Well, the people pleasing thing was a big one. So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I remember defending my team to the hills and it really clashing with, um, well, let's just say the top of the business and them saying, listen, you, you were not considering the bigger picture and the company needs enough. And I was just so fixated on protecting the team. And now I think, wow, that isn't leadership. And why did it matter so much that everyone had to love me? Well, I know why. Because I had low self esteem and all I did was look for validation all the time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I don't do that anymore. So that's, that's one thing. Um, and another thing was expecting everyone to live up to my ridiculously high standards of that ex perfectionist. And that's not fair.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And. And I must admit, I did think on a lot of occasions that my way was right. And now I appreciate that these different personality types that are out there have so much to bring to the table. Like someone who is, who is ordered and organized really compliments me.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: It's not all just about the fun people.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think as well, what I've learned is my ability not to. Not to judge too much too quickly. And it's difficult not to judge people, isn't it?

Speaker A: And we can't help it. We do it as humans. But yeah, we got to stop ourselves. Again, that's about creating the gap between a first thought of not sure about him or her.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And thinking actually give them a chance.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So what else do you look for then? Because recruitment is about, um, I. Well, my business called base mindset behaviors, attitude, skills and experience. I think companies, they hire on skills and experience and they get rid of people on behaviors and attitude and they don't qualify that sort of piece.

Speaker A: This is interesting in it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yes. I don't think we should be recruiting just based on skills at all. I think the most important thing is attitude and mindset.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: And, um, I think recruitment agencies need to be more accountable for the questions that they are asking. In that recruitment process and I would be asking growth mindset led questions finding out how hungry are they, how do they respond to curveballs, how open to our are they at uh, learning new stuff. There's not enough questions like that. You can teach the skills later, can't you?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: But unfortunately when we recruit just people who are really skilled but already really skilled, it could well be that that comes with a big fat ego. Now ego is a big fat blocker in terms of progress because yeah, you get people pretending not wanting to get out of comfort zones because there's shame and blame and yeah, it gets messy. But there's a lot of that in recruitment, isn't it?

Speaker B: Of course, of course. And then um, one of your fortes is I think is creating high performance culture. Would you say? Yeah, how'd you do that? I know you've only got like 10 minutes left so.

Speaker A: Well, in short, we, you create high performance culture is almost like step seven of us of a seven step process because.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, to answer it quickly, it starts at the top. Forget having a high performance culture. Well one, if you've not got the mission and the values covered, which I know you'll be purpose of the company. Right. That's number one. Next, you've got to get the leaders mentally, mentally fit and modeling a growth mindset because we're not going to have a high performing recruitment team if they are not resilient. And I mean extraordinarily resilient, not like average resilient.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And agile. Um, and for me, high performance culture, what does that look like? It is about having greater connection within the team. It is about a model of continuous feedback from leader to staff and staff back up to leader.

Speaker B: Communication is so important, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. It's failing forward. That 10 takes vulnerability.

Speaker B: What's that?

Speaker A: So failing forward is um, trying something new and being brave and trying something new and then version one is better than version none. And then you audit. How did that thing go? What worked? And if it didn't work, you pivot and you find a new way to the result. And, and they're the companies that will get to the result quicker. Uh, there's too much fear in other companies of I'm not trying that new thing. If it ain't broke, don't break it. And that's where my phrase, if it ain't broke, break it comes from. Try the thing.

Speaker B: I always say that if you've done something well, without being too much of a perfectionist, trying to think about how you can make it even better, right?

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Growth mindset thing again.

Speaker A: That is a growth mindset and that's unleash the extraordinary again. Life's too short for average, Chris. And markets are too tough for average. Do we want to have competitive edge and be market leader or not? Because that ain't happening if we're average.

Speaker B: What I like about you is you're very clear. You're kind of like. You kind of simplify the complex and I think that's, that's a school in itself, isn't it? You know all these things, anxiety and high performance and kind of like in this day and age. I think that's really important to kind of cut through the noise and.

Speaker A: Yeah, that is something I'm really passionate about doing. It's not. I appreciate you noticing that because there's too many long words. Research studies matter. I mean I've got evidence coming out my ears in terms of research studies but I present it in a simple way because I know it sticks.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And um, when it comes to training and companies so often it doesn't stick because it is over complicated a lot.

Speaker B: Often what they do is they have these great training sessions and there's no follow up at all. There's no measurement. You can have the best training session in the world but if you're not then tracking the performance, uh, difference of that then.

Speaker A: Yeah, accountability is one of 80s values actually. Because that is something I noticed that many companies have missed that then they have one hit wonders if, if that in terms of training and then nothing transpires to a result. I'm passionate about delivering commercial results and cultural results.

Speaker B: Yeah. So um, why would, why, why recruitment then? Is it because it's a people business? Because it seems to be a good match for your skill set. But why are you.

Speaker A: It's definitely a good match for my personality, isn't it? Because it's a, it's a fun industry, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I, I like the um, I quite like the egos that I often find and I say like as in I know the potential of breaking that down and once people have got rid of that ego, which is just a defense mechanism, you know, that's the shield. Once, once I can teach teams to become more vulnerable. So that's the opposite of ego is being able to be vulnerable. Right.

Speaker B: Because you get the archetypal. You've never made a placement in your life. I bet you're not from recruitment. No, I'm not from. I bet you get all that, don't you? Or not. And if you do, you just not. Don't laugh for it, but you just cut through it.

Speaker A: Oh, you mean if people say, but you've not been in recruitment. Well, interestingly, people really like that. I haven't been in recruitment. Yeah. Because all the matters is.

Speaker B: Yeah, so.

Speaker A: So it's always good. I mean, this is growth mindset. Right. It's great that I've got, um, experience across multiple industries. Tech, parent, beauty, you name it. Banking. There's a lot of value to be taken from other industries.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker A: But. But all that matters is that I can help people break through their fear, their stress, and their overwhelm. And the fixed mindset that is very present in recruitment. It's not just in recruitment. It's everywhere. Right. But the ego things. An interesting one.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So to summarize, then, if you were to sort of summarize some, um, of the best ways for someone to get over, like a negative mindset, fixed, um, mindset. I know we've touched on it before, but you know what, the sort of top three or four things you'd like to leave the audience with in terms of all the stuff that you do.

Speaker A: Okay. Gosh, that's a hard question. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna try and nail this. Right. Ready?

Speaker B: I'm ready.

Speaker A: Okay. Firstly, if you. If you ain't changing it, you are choosing it. That's the first thing I want to say to people. If you ain't changing it, you are choosing it. So let's not moan. Let's not be what I call below the line and blame. Let's take accountability. So this is all about taking action. Second thing I just want to repeat, because I think it's useful, is please remember that something you can choose is the lens through which you're viewing everything.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Whatever that. Whether it's road rage or, uh, a client that's being difficult, you can choose your response. So just stay in the driving seat. Take. Create that opportunity gap.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And. And be on a quest to live a life that is smarter, not harder. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Stop aiming for 100%. And apart from the moments where you actually have to.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And try and live your Life by this 80% rule, because I promise you that you will achieve more than you ever thought you could. As a result of that clarity, you

Speaker B: seem extremely, kind of resilient around when hits the fan or whatever happens. It's almost like it's. It's like I think you're, uh, you give me a vibe of kind of like, is this is happening? Well, no matter what it is, good, bad or indifferent, it's happening for me, not to me. Right. And I think that's what I'm getting.

Speaker A: That is brilliant. I couldn't agree more. Life is not happening to us. We don't want to believe life's happening to us. I am happening to life.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I should have mentioned earlier, uh, it's probably useful for people to hear that I did spend quite a lot of time delivering a specific mental health program called the Thrive Program. And that's why I know so much about all this mental fitness stuff. You know, I've helped thousands overcome, like you said, phobias, addictions, all sorts, which is why I speak so confidently. And for me, it's. It's a beautiful thing to be able to bring that breadth of experience, having helped so many different types of people from, from kids to CEOs.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Into this, into the recruitment sector and other industries to help drive high performance culture. I just love the Commercial League.

Speaker B: I love that. And I think it was Einstein that said this. You've got two choices. You need to think the world's against you or the world's fought for you. And picking up on what you said about in public speaking, people are rooting for you. I think that. I think that if you've got mental health challenges at the moment or you've got anxiety, that's okay. In fact, it's normal. It's embracing, in fact, that can be a superpower. It's kind of like almost. Almost I would call surrendering. And that's difficult to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you do feel anxious before going on a stage, whoever's listening, because we meant m. Most people do get worried about speaking it. How the words you use, the way you frame and label that change the word. It's not anxiety. It's excitement. It's excitement. You can fake it till you make it. When it comes to this voice in your head, you really can. Your body does not know the difference between what is real and what's not.

Speaker B: That's true.

Speaker A: Right. It doesn't think about dreams where you thought you thought you were getting chased or falling off a cliff. Your body thinks it's real. It's not real. So why don't we fake it till we can make it with our positive, helpful thoughts?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And what we'll do is get our, uh, body feeling calmer.

Speaker B: I've got my, my affirmations on my phone. I've got Some uh, I've got some values. Values on my, on my, on my wall and stuff like that. Do you do things like meditation? Would you recommend anything or sort of anything else like, like that, my thing.

Speaker A: I don't meditate that often, but I really appreciate it when I do.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because everyone's got their own thing like mental fitness thing that they like. I say everyone, some people do. We all should. Mine is getting out of nature, Chris. Mine is walking. I love nature. Um, walking my dog. That is when I have my best ideas. That is when I feel grounded again. And I see that as a power move. I also see a power nap as a power move.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love a power nap.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Don't do that enough. But 20 minute power nap, you are going to be more productive. So all this is smarter, not harder.

Speaker B: Good. It's really good. Yeah.

Speaker A: So to anyone m beating themselves up because you took a walk, you're actually being really clever. Well done you.

Speaker B: Before we go, what's the future looking like? What do you want to achieve the rest of your life? You've already achieved a lot actually. You're like speaker of the year. You've got all these awards. You've done some great things, haven't you?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm really proud of how far uh, I have come, but I have got big ambitions, that is for sure. I definitely want to be speaking on massive stages around the world. I want to become, become a uh, world class, well known female speaker because there aren't many of them. Yeah, certainly not many with energy to see you.

Speaker B: Can you see that, doing that?

Speaker A: Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm on the route, I'm on route for that and I want to grow 80 Growth Academy and get it in as many businesses as possible to transform not just the lives of those employees but the commercial results. I want to prove that we can absolutely drive growth by starting with mental fitness first.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then everything, everything else falls into place, isn't it? You get your, get your, your, your, your brain and your, your mental fitness. Right. Then you tend to want to then look after yourself physically and um, the people around you as well, don't you?

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just the only missing piece that people haven't maybe, uh, necessarily understood up until now is that mental fitness does translate to high performance.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And you look at any, you look at any athlete and they prove that, you know, they're so mentally fit and in control of their mind. And we need people in business doing the same.

Speaker B: Anna uh, that went really quickly. An absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: No, I really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: You're welcome.