Creating a Sales Flywheel with LinkedIn, with Neal Goyal

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: So, uh, we have Neil Goyle on the pod today. Um, Neil is actually, uh, I actually met. I met you what via, like our sales process with Disco. I think you, you were, you were probably on, on like about joining the team and randomly popped in, um, close to closing. So I think that's how we met. But yeah, Neil is, uh, VP of Strategic Sales at Disco. Just joined a couple months ago and I really just loved a lot of his content. I love how he thinks. And we were just having a super casual talk like last month and Neil started sharing a little bit more about his story with me and I was like, holy shit, like people need to hear this. And so I invited him onto the pod and I'm really excited to have you today.

Speaker A: Hey, thanks so much, Parthi. I'm thrilled to be here too. I've been following your journey, I've been following what you're building and obviously, yeah, uh, we first actually met when I was first joining Disco. I think it was like in that first couple of weeks. Um, and since then, um, it's just been amazing getting to know you. So really excited to have today's chat and uh, dive in deeper.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Um, let's maybe go back in time a little bit. Tell me a little bit more about, um, you're sure? I saw, I saw that you were at Google. Um, I think I joined Google in 2015, so you were probably on your way out. But tell, um, me a little bit more. Go back in time. You started your career at Google and it sounds like you've really made a sort of name for yourself in the kind of like D to C E com sales space since then. Tell me your story.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, I think my path into software and E comm is like an unconventional one. I think it was like a realization of who it is that you want to serve over the course of your career. And I think I had just this late career realization of a Sales is the profession that I want to be in. And number two, the who do I want to serve in that sales function or profession? And I fell in love with E commerce actually. Really during the time I was at Buildfire. Right. Um, uh, at Buildfire, uh, again, mobile app player. A sliver of what we did was in the E commerce space and also E commerce. And Shopify had played an instrumental role in my wife and I really kind of get it. Finding our footing in the middle of our career pivots too. So we had essentially built a brand together, uh, started it from our living room table like most Shopify brands have a very similar story. And it was a really monumental moment in our lives that showed, wow, what's really possible in the world of E commerce. How, uh, Shopify had lowered those barriers to entry down to the floor so anyone could set up, ah, their own brand virtually overnight. And that's where I fell in love with Shopify. That's where I fell in love with E Commerce. And so as I pivoted into a sales career and a sales function, and then as I joined Tapcart, I realized, like, that's where I really wanted to spend all of my time. Right. Um, I wanted to, uh, you know, decide, like, hey, who am I going to serve? I want to serve people that I understand because I was a merchant myself at one juncture, and I really respect people with a certain level of grit and hustle, which is exactly those brand founders that I have the opportunity to interact with right now. So with all of that I had made, I had formalized my sales career in the E Commerce space. Um, and I think really where things took what I would describe as a turn, um, straight north was really at that time that I joined Tapcart ever. After having tremendous success at Build Fire previously as their top performer, uh, for a couple years back to back, and then moving to Tapcart and instantly becoming, um, the top performer over there, a lot of people look at it like what might have caused that. And a lot of that is driven by the fact that the love for who you get to serve, the excitement you have for the customers you're getting to face each day, is the largest part of success in sales, if you truly love that and truly enjoy that. And so that has been a large part of the story of my success in E Commerce, uh, uh, as things got started.

Speaker B: Very cool. So it sounds like this is very personal for you. I'm curious, what was the brand? Um, you. You guys are on. You and your wife.

Speaker A: Yeah. So the brand was called NBT Threads. It was a, uh, apparel brand that focused on humor for, uh, moms and children. And it did extremely well.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, it taught us, uh, e commerce 101, um, and it was a large part of us falling in love with the space as a whole. So when we, When I pivoted into the sales career, like, everything I did day in and day out, whether it was prospecting, whether it's having conversations, whether it's, uh, during the sales cycle, it's just kind of pointing back to, like, my life, uh, as a merchant, as a founder, as, uh, someone that was putting blood, sweat and tears into something. And so I think that helped me a lot in that process where they talk about, um, an empathetic sales process or how to show empathy during, uh, that process. And that's a really hard thing to do if you haven't lived the life of the prospect that you're facing. Right. Uh, it's very easy to be sympathetic to the challenges that they're trying to solve, uh, going through, or the problems that they're trying to solve. But in order to truly place yourself in the shoes of your prospect, you kind of have to have walked in their shoes for a period of time. So I think that was another thing that, uh, played a large role in me developing relationships in the sales cycle, uh, that were quite strong right out of the gate.

Speaker B: They, I think they, they say that, like, the best sellers are truly, like, business consultants who can help you think through your problem. It's not really about trying to sell you a solution. It's really trying to help you figure out how to solve a problem that you're having. And so I think because it sounds like you've been in their shoes, um, you almost have this unfair advantage where you have this first party perspective on, like, oh, yeah, I've been there, done that. Totally understand where you're coming from. And regardless of what it is you're selling, like, I, I think you can probably, like, understand how it kind of slots into, into their world in which in a way that maybe a lot of people, like, don't quite understand because they haven't been there. So that's, that's really interesting. Um, um. And, uh, so, okay, so you started, you started, started there at Bullfire, and then you moved to Tap Cart. Tell, um, me a little bit more about your story at Tapcart. Like, is, is that roughly when you started really thinking about, uh, building this online Persona or, like, starting to like, educate publicly?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It was, it was probably maybe just two months into my time at Tapcart where I realized that, you know, um, we're obviously trying to make a pretty upmarket move, uh, at that time at Tapcart. And then on top of that, the way to make that up, uh, that upmarket move was through a true outbound approach. Right. In other words, being able to choose your ICP and go after that icp. When I joined Tapcart, we were a hundred percent inbound lead motion. Right. Which is amazing, don't get me wrong. Like, if you have people saying, like, hi, I'd like a demo, your solution I'd like to learn more. Like, who doesn't love that? Right? Um, so that's a great thing. And that's what took Tapcart to where it was, uh, up until really the time that I joined. But I think the challenge without Inbound is yes, you have people that are, ah, higher intent, but they may not be your ideal customer, they may not be that perfect fit customer. Um, they may have hit or miss success with the solution. These are likely also the customers that'll probably pay you the least over time and probably be the first to quit when things don't go well. Right? Whereas what the outbound, uh, approach really allows you to do, it allows you to say, hey, listen, here are the small sample set of customers that would absolutely crush it with our solution, we are a perfect fit for the problems that they need solved. As a result, they're going to completely win in huge, in a huge way, stand at the top of a mountain that they absolutely love. The solution willing, um, to pay a premium for the service and stay forever. Right? That's what Outbound gives you the opportunity to choose who you want your customer to be. So as I joined Hack Art, that was like the number one, I think, directed where um, uh, the nut hadn't really been cracked, there attempts had been made. But, um, I, there wasn't necessarily a proven playbook. Email as a channel had already been kind of dwindling, right? In performance, you're seeing reply rates dropping, I mean, year after year over the past five years, uh, open rates, um, and a lot of like, misguided signals with what email the channel was, was doing. Right? And as a result I'm like, what is the other avenue to be able to get in front of that right audience? Um, and for me I'm like, okay, we have this opportunity here where my prospects are clearly spending time on LinkedIn, right? So why not use that as an opportunity to meet them where they actually are? Like, are they spending their time in their inbox? Not really. Are they spending time, uh, answering phone calls? Not really. But they are spending time consuming content on LinkedIn, right? So what can I do to meet them there? Right. And, um, and that's where we, you know, in terms of the success out of the gate, like fast Forward the clock 7, 8, 9 months from that point, we went from a 100 inbound lead motion to about 70% of total pipeline being created on the outbound side. Right? Like a complete flip. And what did you see in that regard? You saw larger customers coming into the funnel, sales Cycles, uh, being uh, more tight because we understand what their pain points are prior to them coming into the sales, uh, cycle. You see larger contract values, longer terms, like all the things you like to see in a high quality customer that's also you can view as a partner. Right. You saw that happen virtually overnight over the course of seven months and over a lot of that is where I kind of just like did by testing. Right. Like I joined as an account executive at that time. Um, we had a BDR team but at the same time the BDR team at that point really again were trying everything but leaning too heavily on email where we weren't getting the outcomes. So what was the largest trigger in my mind is that concept of meeting the customer where they are. And that was on LinkedIn. I started, you know, posting on LinkedIn. Right. I started posting and it was quite wild because um, I was like, okay, this is hard. This is like, does not feel comfortable at all. Um, there was parts of me that would say like, am I saying the right things? Am m. I am m. I. Is my writing style something that people will like? Um, do I have typos? Am m I saying anything of worth? Oh my gosh, I'm putting myself out there. Oh my gosh, does that sound cringe? Like all these kind of self talk things that happen, they happened to me when I started posting on LinkedIn. Right. But uh, the one thing that kind of helped me stay on track was, listen, this is not going to hurt you. There's no way that this is going to hurt or hurt you. This is going to only help. Right. And I think it's going to create some kind of benefit for me in the future. I just don't know what that benefit is. Right. So just keep putting one foot in front of the other every day. Just keep doing. And I think that's where I started. Like I'm um, an individual that once I find something, I stick to it. I, I'm like literally every single day on that. I mean like, if I was that way in the gym, I'd, I'd have an eight pack by now. But I don't. Right, right. You know, like, but uh, but, but when it came to building Pipeline, uh, I was absolutely obsessed with finding the ways that I can do that. And I genuinely believed with a leap of faith that this would actually, ah, work. Now listen, this is like three we're talking about three years ago. So social selling wasn't new.

Speaker B: Right? Right.

Speaker A: People were doing social selling at that point. Um, but social selling at that point was like, hey, hit a connect request, pitch, connect pitch, connect pitch. Um, and I think even the social selling gurus out there were teaching that mantra, like, it's about what you say in the message that's going to get that response. No, just the mere. In my view, the concept of initiating, uh, a connection with somebody and asking for something out of that first interaction just to me seems fundamentally ridiculous because what would you do at a cocktail party? Would you just like, walk up to somebody and ask them for something in your first interaction?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: You'd shake their hand. You'd get to know that person. You'd look to build a relationship, find a common ground, and then makes a series of deposits that increase their view of the value you can bring before you make that ask in return. Like, those are all fundamental social behaviors that we kind of forgot right, when we moved into a social selling mindset on LinkedIn. So, um, for me it's been just like a relationship building thing, a trust building thing. Um, and that was a huge determining factor, uh, of my success at Tapcart. Right. Um, it came down to, you know, like, over the course of, let's call it, you know, three, three and a half years, I closed 33 to 34% of Tapcart's net new revenue. And that's not because I was like the best seller. That's not because I just had every, um, all these great tips and tricks. No, I just had more pipeline than anybody else. Right. It was a function of pipeline math. And so my success in building that pipeline was through building relationships on LinkedIn.

Speaker B: I, I like, I like a word you just use. You said deposits. Um, that's not the first time a seller has used that. They said, like, you need to deposit before you can withdraw. Um, you need to provide value before you can ask for somebody's time. And I think a lot of sellers are forgetting that today, um, your first interaction, like, even with cold emails, a lot of people are immediately like, can I get 30 minutes of your time? Um, without really giving them a reason, a reason, uh, to take that call, or, um, having shown that they can provide value or make their lives easier. So, um, I think A, like, meeting people where they are, like in your case, like you mentioned LinkedIn, and then B, also actually showing that you're a person who can provide value, value for free and build that relationship before you ask for their time is really important. I think even in my, in my journey, um, I've been, I've been probably posting on, on LinkedIn for the past two years now. Um, I think we, we both have like very similar follower counts. A lot of people just come to me for advice and eventually it turns into a sales conversation. But people just ask me for stuff. They're just like, oh, how do I think about xyz? Um, or you mentioned this. I'm facing that problem too. Um, how like, like what are your thoughts on that? Here's how I'm thinking about it. And so it's kind of crazy. It's almost as though I am selling one to many in public. I'm talking about ways in which people should be thinking about problems without necessarily like obviously mentioning ourselves at letter drop and hand raisers. Kind of like self select, self qualify themselves and come to me or at least drop breadcrumbs to let me know like, hey, this is a person we're talking to. Um, that's my experience with it. I'm curious as to what is your methodology behind um, social selling? So we mentioned that the whole connect and pitch doesn't work. What is your methodology, um, here. How do you actually m do the selling part of social selling?

Speaker A: Yeah, great question. I think first off it's uh, understanding two parts touching on what you just uh, brought up in the concept of making deposits and withdrawals. Like can somebody walk into a bank, a bank that they don't currently have a relationship with right now, and say, hey, I'd like to, like, I don't have an account here, but I'd like to make a withdrawal? Like, can you do that? You fundamentally cannot do that. In order to, to make a withdrawal, you need to make a series of deposits in that bank account over time. And once you make enough deposits, you can choose to make a withdrawal. That is the exact type of mantra you want to tell yourself in your mind is that like, listen, if I'm asking for something, I need to give things in advance. I need to give value in advance of that in order for me to earn the right to ask for something in return. Now asking for something in return, and we'll come back to this a little bit on the how of the strategy part of things. But like even sending the connect request in the first place is still in a form of asking for something. Even if you don't even have a message, you're asking that person to accept you as a connection. So then how do you add value to that person prior to that connection happening? And I think that's a key part of this whole social, uh, relationship building journey. That's going to be a Key part of it, the other part is that think of buyers, uh, no matter what category they're in, think of consumers, no matter who they are. Every single human being today has a shorter attention span than they did five years ago. Like I think, ah, the TikToks and Instagrams of the world have programmed us to have a shorter attention span, to only get ah, enthralled by hooks or something that really catches your eye. Um, and holding the attention span is harder than it's ever been.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: That's why email as a channel has broken. The emails don't hold attention like they once did. So if we know that we're programmed as a society to have a lower attention span, I think what we forget as sellers is that we need to eradicate that short attention. Spanish, uh, ourselves in our own process, in our own mind. In fact, we're programmed for instant gratification, right? It's a truly a different sales generation where expectation for instant gratification, it's higher than it ever has been.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: When, when you go back to a more traditional time in sales, sales came from building relationships, building trust, earning that trust, working hard in order to, you know, prove oneself that they're even earned the right to the conversation. And I think right now we're predisposed as a sales generation to expect an immediate response and if we don't get the response, we move on to the next.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and so I think it's a pretty disproportionate, uh, change as it pertains to what needs to happen in the seller's mind. That's already happened in the receiving, uh, mind. When you then think about the concept of LinkedIn and where that, what you just described, you're like, hey, I'm able to have these like organic conversations that may not be sales focused, but you put some content out there and the conversation started, okay, that's a, that's a classic textbook thought leadership right there. Like you have, by putting content out there, you're telling everybody kind of like what you know, what you're about, how you speak, how you think, what your uh, point of view is on the world, a sector, a topic, an issue. And you're going to have people that, just like you said, self select and get drawn in by what you're saying, right? In that process of getting drawn in, they're inherently deciding that they trust you as a thought leader, that they value what you're saying, that they want to learn more about what you're saying, even if it's off topic. And you're a trusted mind that they would, uh, whose brain that they would want to pick.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: All of those things play a very critical role at all parts of the sale funnel. Right. The real question is, it's like, okay, if I, and uh, I would love for you to answer this question, right? If I as a seller had the opportunity to walk into a theater, this beautiful theater in New York City, and the entire audience, seats in the audience are filled with decision makers and economic buyers of my target accounts, and I had the opportunity to be on stage speaking in front of them about any topic in the world, would I as a seller want that opportunity?

Speaker B: Hell yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, so now the question is, why is it that 99% of people don't post on LinkedIn, 99% of sellers don't post on Link. Less than 1% of sellers on the planet post regularly on LinkedIn. That is the stage where your prospects are spending their time. That is a stage where they're consuming content and yet 99 out 100 don't step foot on that stage. Why do you think that is?

Speaker B: I think, and I see this because we sell to, I mean, I have to deal with enablement for a lot of customers with our product and stuff like that. So I do see this. I feel like there are two parts of this. One is almost like a top down or like historical legacy component to it. It's just like, let's keep doing what we think worked for the past decade or past two decades. And so if you're a very tenured sales leader and you're coming in, you need to sort of like you want to dictate like how your team is run. Um, a lot of them are just like, hey, like we were making phone calls 20 years ago, we're going to do phone calls now. Don't get me wrong, that works like we cold call at letter drop too. We send cold email too. Um, but we strongly like, to your point, we know the stage exists, um, and email and calling are, are just like components. But the stage helps us like warm up people and identify the people we should be emailing and calling in the first place. And I think a lot of people are ignoring that that stage exists and they're just trying to brute force it in terms of one, one to one. I think the second. And so that's like a cultural issue. It's just like top down. Like people fundamentally don't understand this concept you just mentioned, which is like, we have the stage. Um, I think the second issue, the second Part of this is there are people who agree with you, agree with what you just said right now. They're like, yes, like Neil, you're right, I wish I could be more like you. But they don't have the confidence that they have something that's worth saying or they don't know how to, to say something that's going to resonate with their buyers. Um, or they're shy or they've been led to believe that LinkedIn and Twitter and all these platforms are cringy. Um, it's the classic like, here's what I learned about B2B SaaS from like changing my baby's diaper type situation. And so I think there are all of these misguided notions about like what this platform is and what it's for and that that sort of like blocks them from seeing it for its true potential. And so I think those are the two reasons I've seen as uh, to why people don't do this. One is purely like, I don't believe either I don't believe the value and I'm just gonna keep doing what I, I know to do, or I believe in it, but I don't know how to play the game or I'm shy or I'm uh, afraid of judgment, etc. So those are my two leading hypotheses as to why people are not taking advantage of this as much as they, they could be.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Um, that resonates. I'll take a slightly altered view on that. And I would say that the first, divide the sales, uh, professionals into two categories. One comprises of the 70 to 80% and the other comprises of the 20 remaining 20 to 30%. About 70% of all sellers are incredibly average in their skill sets and desire.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Skill sets and desire. And desire is the key part. Right. Software sales as a profession is generally, uh, quite a well paying profession. Right. Especially now. Right. And as a result, because it pays relatively well, um, you have a tendency for people to be perfectly okay with hitting 70% of quota and 80% of quota. And they're like satisfied with that. Right. Or if they hit 100 of quota, they think it's absolutely like great. Right. And don't get me wrong, it is. Right, great when you hit quota. But there's a different breed, 20 to 30% that view the 100% of quota as their table stakes, that view it as a baseline for their performance. They wake up thinking like, how can I exceed the standard benchmark of my performance day in and day out. Right. So let's separate those two breeds. Right. Then, um, uh, let's focus on the breed that matters, and that's that 20 to 30% divide them into a couple categories. Some, just like you mentioned, may not believe in the value of social selling. I think I would put that at a minority. But every one of those folks in the top 20, 30% are spending their time on LinkedIn, too. They already know that their prospect is there, too. They know that's, that's probably the easiest way to gain some kind of connection with them. Like, it's no secret that that's probably the easiest way of connection. So I think it actually comes down to this overwhelming imposter syndrome that, that can plague anybody.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And it did when I was getting started, too. Again, am I saying the things that are, uh, going to be of, uh, value to my audience? Are people going to judge me? Are people going to hate on me, criticize me? Um, there's a spotlight in me. Is that cringe? Uh, is my copywriting good enough? Oh, my goodness. Am I going to get enough likes or engagement on my post? Right. These are all thought processes that enter our minds. And it's totally normal. Like, it's 100% normal. And it actually won't go away, like, likely ever. Right. You'll always ask those questions. It'll just get better over time. But the key piece in understanding, like, where you turn that corner is like, once you decide that I'm going to get outside of that comfort zone, once you decide you're going to push yourself beyond those limits, that's when you realize that, okay, this is not as hard as I thought it would be. I'm, um, one of the very few people doing it. Because anybody who decides to wake up and start doing it one day, you immediately move to the top 1% of your category in terms of visibility. Right. Those who become most visible are also the ones that end up building the most relationships over the course of time. That become thought leaders over the course of time doesn't even mean you need to be an expert in anything. But by virtue of putting yourself out there, you naturally become a magnet, which naturally turns into generating pipeline. And in my experience, that top 20, 30%, it's not about those that can master a sales cycle. It's those that have the most pipeline that are the ones that live at the top of that leaderboard. So I think, uh, the largest part of it is, is just like kind of getting out of your own way, getting out of your own head and putting one foot in front of the other, uh, taking that leap of faith that, hey, I think this is going to amount to something really substantial in the end.

Speaker B: Let's, let's talk. Okay. Let's say I'm a seller. I listen to this podcast and now I'm like gung ho about this. I'm hungry. I'm like, I want to be a top 1% seller. And I listen to this podcast and now I'm committed to doing this. Talk to me about your actual strategy in terms of what type of content you're producing that can drive pipeline, how you're thinking about engaging with people in comments, connecting with people, um, timing it with your sales cycle and your target accounts. Talk to me a little bit more about, like how does, how does someone strategically think about executing on this?

Speaker A: Totally. So there's three parts, right? Three parts to creating kind of this flywheel effect that can be so powerful for LinkedIn. First, let's talk about what is currently done by 99% of prospectors out there is they're initiating that touch point with their prospect via, uh, direct message. Right? A connection request. Right. Like I mentioned before, that's like asking someone for something before you earn the right to ask for it. But Nonetheless, it's how 99% of sellers are doing it right now in that process, on average, you're getting one out of every four or one out of every five getting accepted for a request.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You don't have an acceptance rate over 50%. It just doesn't happen that way. Especially if you don't know somebody. Right? So one out of four, one out of five, we're talking 20 to 25% are getting accepted. What that also is telling you what that means is that of the ones that don't accept, you officially burn that bridge to have a two way, uh, form of communication with them. If that person either A, ignores you or B, declines you, you lost that entire ability to implement the rest of the flywheel that I'm going to talk about here in a minute. Right? So the number one goal is to get an accept request. Because once you've gotten an accept request, now you a, have a two way mechanism for having a conversation privately. But then also equally important is they are now going to be seeing your content, right? They're able to see your content. If they see your content, that's when they start to form an opinion of your pov, your stance as a thought leader. Uh, they, uh, start to hear your message and whatever you're trying to, uh, teach or convey. Um, and that's what builds that trust over the course of time. But if four out of five are declining your request, how do you even get to that point? So it goes back to this other side over here is like, how do you make those deposits before you make that first withdrawal? And that comes from engaging with your prospect in the comments of what they're posting prior to that connection, uh, request. In other words, uh, cheer them on, show, uh, how excited you are as they are excited for what they're doing. Um, you have, uh, other people at your target account and organization posting content. Uh, you have the company itself posting content. You have the individual prospect posting content. Go engage, go engage. Go meet them where they are. They are creating their own content. They are saying their own things or their company is. So how do you then go to them is you leave a comment. Nobody ever remembers somebody that liked to post. Like, no one ever remembers that. But you'll always remember someone that left a very thoughtful comment, right? Not an AI comment, a thoughtful comment, right? Something that adds value that, that cheers them on. Maybe it draws a certain type of feeling or teaches them something like that comment. Well, all of a sudden you do this with a certain level of frequency over the period, uh, of few weeks, maybe a couple of months, and at some point in the future, then you go send that connection request and they're like, oh, it's that Neil guy. That Neil guy that's like always in my comments. And he always has nice things to say. I don't really know him, but he always has nice things to say. So, uh, accept, right? That's how you get a 4 out of 5 or a 5 out of 5 connect request is by actually giving value, doing something nice for the prospect long before you go make that request or that withdrawal, right? Then once you get that four out, uh, of five, five out of five connect acceptance, then all of a sudden your content means something. Your content's having an impact, right? So it's a full flywheel approach. M. Most social sellers are like dm, dm, DM and like the occasional post. Whereas there's like the actual like commenting long before you go make that first request, increase the probability of that acceptance, and then leverage content accordingly to match whoever you're starting to build those relationships with.

Speaker B: Talk to me a little bit more

Speaker A: about

Speaker B: impact on hard numbers for you. So you mentioned that Tapcart, you were closing a disproportionate amount of, of close 1 revenue and you attribute it partially to pipeline. So tell me a little bit more about the Impact doing um, this has had on both your pipeline and also, I'm curious, like post sale, I mean rather like post, uh, opening up an opportunity during the sales cycle, like what's the impact been on your win rate in terms of staying top of mind or building that trust to want to work with you, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I would love to hear um, personally like what you've seen there, um, a tap cart or if you have any early indicators in your neural at disco, would love to hear that. Yeah.

Speaker A: So when you think about um, the impact of LinkedIn on the sales cycle, uh, you can almost divide it into two categories. One is where you sourced that particular sales cycle or prospect that came from LinkedIn in some form or fashion. And then the second part, the second bucket is, hey, I just have an existing prospect that's in cycle. And how do you use LinkedIn during the sales cycle if you, they may not have been sourced that way, they came in from another source. So first things first, if you source this prospect on LinkedIn, that means they've probably been reading your content, they probably have some familiarity with who you are, they understand your belief system and they've already made a decision to say, you know what, this guy's got enough things that are interesting to me that I'm willing to take a meeting with them. Right. So the probability, um, like I mentioned, success in the sales profession was not a function of managing the sales cycle as a function of having incredible amount of pipeline. And so the more pipeline that ah, that that pipeline came from uh, LinkedIn. But then you'll notice that once that conversation and sales cycle actually starts, the probability of that sales cycle resulting in a close one outcome was extremely high. In fact, for those leads and prospects that were sourced from LinkedIn, the close 1 rate was 81% right. Over my time there. So huge. I mean that's a huge number. Right. The team close rate as an average was 41% which is still high. Right. As a team.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Team wide, 41%. But when it was sourced from LinkedIn, that means that there was already a level of trust there, there was already a level of confidence there, already some value delivered there. So not only did it increase the probability, but it shortened the sales cycle. So the sales cycle was cut by 50% if it was sourced from LinkedIn too. Again, a lot of that trust barrier is already broken through as a result. Right. The second part of the equation is for prospects that are already in cycle, what happens when you actually connect with them on LinkedIn and now you're curating content. During that journey, plenty of sellers will say, hey, I have this prospect inside cycle. Let me hit a connect request. The prospect almost always accepts because you're already in cycle with them and then the AE or seller does nothing with it. Right? Whereas if you are creating content and you've now accepted this uh, request, you are nurturing that prospect with more content throughout the sales cycle daily. Right. Without it being an invasive touch or call or an email, they're just learning something new. And it doesn't even have to be about the specific project that you have in mind or the specific solution or whatever you're trying to sell. It could have nothing to do with that. It could simply be like m, I just like this guy just a little bit more. Does it seem like somebody I would like to build uh, a partnership with? Because oftentimes if they love the solution and like the seller, they're definitely going to buy. If they don't really care for the solution or don't see itself solving a problem and don't like the seller, then they're not going to buy. But if they are 5050 on the solution but like the seller or have trust in seller, it tips the scales in the favor of like, yeah, I think this is someone I want to work with, this is someone I want to be a part of whatever it is that they're building. Right. And that's where uh, for prospects that were not part, not sourced from LinkedIn but were in cycle but then were nurtured with LinkedIn content over the course of that sales cycle, that too was at an 80% win rate.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: For those that I did not have a LinkedIn communication with, let's say I sent them a connect request during cycle and they just don't live on LinkedIn at all, right. Or they don't spend time there or for whatever reason they didn't accept where, where was the average, right. At that team? Average. Right. But when you see there's a touch on LinkedIn, they're just getting nurtured. You stay top of mind as a seller in the eyes of the prospect too. You think of our prospects, right? That they are running their business, they have their day to day job and then they're getting solicited beyond belief by more software companies than ever in our history. Right. So they're being inundated. So staying top of mind is so incredibly difficult. But if you're, whether it's in cycle or sourced, if you're able to leverage LinkedIn, that's your way of staying top of mind.

Speaker B: Um, and that resonates true for me, too, I think. I've had so many deals at this point, probably like even four or five last quarter. I'm thinking about personally where a closed loss opportunity or a stalled opportunity came back to me and responded to me, or it came, like, truly came back inbound or came back to life because of something they saw me post online. They were just like, actually, that's really cool. I want to talk to you about that. Or, I didn't get that out of our first conversation, but you just opened my eyes to something new that I want to pick, and now I want to pick up this conversation. Um, and so, yeah, I think not only has LinkedIn helped me with pipeline building, but it's actually shortened the sales cycles to your point, and actually move deals forward, which were in a place not in a not so great place where they look kind of stalled. So, um, I love that you actually have numbers behind that. And I love that you mentioned that when you sell to, uh, somebody who's not really active on LinkedIn, you see that win rate for that deal, like, drop down back to the median. Um, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing at Disco, because, um, since I started working with you guys, I've seen obviously, like, you a whole bunch. Like, I can't open up LinkedIn any day without seeing you. I'm not even your target buyer. But because I'm connected, I see you every single day. Um, but I'm seeing more of the team at Disco as well. I'm seeing Zach, um, Aaron, and other folks, um, on my feed, like, at least every week. And so I'm curious as to what's going on at the business, like, what have. What are you trying to help other sellers, uh, with over there, and how you're trying to sort of incorporate this thing that you've learned at Tapcart over here at Disco.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, it's been amazing to see the entire team really adopt social selling in a. In a big way. I'm so excited to see it, quite frankly. I think one of the hardest things to do is a teacher, Social selling done the right way, and then, number two, actually be someone that's learning it and putting it into play. Um, and like, yeah, absolutely. The entire Disco team individually has, like, picked up their content creation game and taken it to the absolute moon. And it's making a huge impact, like, literally from day one, right on Pipeline, on brand perception, uh, on an individual level and a full company level as well. Right. So it's so incredible to see the adoption of that. When you think about putting into play though, it's like, go, how do I even get started? Right. How do I even like, like initiate this process if, if I kind of might have done it before? And that's where, quite frankly, I was so incredibly impressed with Letter Drop. Right. Because it allowed me to, who was already a huge believer in social selling, already a huge proponent for the impact that it can drive to truly create a, uh, mechanism for this to be like rolled out across the entire team. Right. Um, and that's what's happened. Like Letter Drop has done so many things. It's helped people like come up with a lot of ideas. Like I still encourage everyone should write their post, create their own content. But what does Letter Drop do? It gives everyone great ideas to, like, what to talk about. It helps the individual say, hey, am m I saying something that's of uh, value? Am I saying something that people are going to like? But if it's pulling it directly from a call recording, that was a customer facing conversation that you had a very enlightening conversation, if that can trigger a content piece, that is a beautiful thing. And so Letter Drop's been absolutely incredible in helping the team come up with, uh, various ideas. Right. On top of that, when you think about who's seeing the content, who's interacting with the content, is this working, is it not? What do I need to tweak to refine the strategy over time? Again, that's another part where this functionality of Letter Drop is incredible. Like, understand, like, is this even resonating with my audience? And if it is, where should I go spend my time with a particular prospect based on the fact that they're actually engaging with my content? Right. So it's a really powerful tool. I mean, hats off to what you build. I actually had question marks around it when we were first deploying it. Um, the whole team knew I was a very big advocate for social selling, but again, had a question mark in terms of like, how it would drive impact. And now fast forward the clock and it's only been what, 60 days of letter Drop being in action and you've seen this entire team completely adopt social selling in a huge way. Right. And that's not an easy thing to do team wide. Um, but obviously Letter Drop was a huge part in doing that. By the way, this is not a sponsored post. It sounded like it, but this is not sponsored in any way, but huge hats off to what You've built, it's been instrumental in rolling social selling and the concept across the entire team.

Speaker B: I really appreciate that. I came in here to learn a little bit more about your story, but I appreciate, I appreciate the uh, the kind words. Neil. Um, this, this was a lot of fun. I'm sure there are people who are going to listen to all of this possibly and still walk away and not change anything tomorrow. And maybe they're part of the 70 that we talked about. Let's ignore them. Like they're not going to change how much ever we talk to them. They're the rest 20, 30% of people who really do, maybe they're, they are, they're, they are ambitious. They do want to win. This might be an individual seller, this might be sales leadership. Um, what would you say to them in terms of hey, I think you should wake up and actually maybe pay attention to the way you're going to market and really think about this social selling thing. Um, what would you say to them, to somebody who's like, maybe like a, like not, not necessarily like, hey, I need to change something about what I'm doing today to, in order to win. What would you say to like wake them up?

Speaker A: Yeah, great call. So again, focusing on just that top 20, 30%.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: That's the top 20, 30% that like sees quota as an absolute like baseline and sees um, like has salivation for more, more, more in terms of performance, um, that they drive from, from the work that they put in. Right. So we're focusing on that segment. If we look at that group, they're, they are often looking at themselves like hey, I'm really at the top of my game right now. I'm doing really well. I'm the top of my leaderboard. And so oftentimes it's actually really difficult for that group to say I want to change something. Right, Right. Typically it's like when you're down at the bottom of the leaderboard and you have the desire to change, then you're more open to making that change. Well now take a look at this. Right. I'll use um, just the E commerce software industry as an example, but it's relevant for every single software category. Right. Four years ago there were 3,000 software companies that were considered part of Shopify's ecosystem. Right. Today, fast forward the clock. There are now 14,000 software companies that are part of Shopify's ecosystem. The number of software companies has gone up by 5 or 6x just in this category alone. But that's true for every Single category, whether you're talking about sales enablement, whether you're talking about HR software, like it doesn't matter what software category, the number of players in the space by virtue of AI, the number of entrants have come in because it's so much easier to build software, so much easier to stand up a startup than it ever was before. So if you were uh, if you're a top performer and you're saying you're looking just one year out, 18 months out, and you say I still want to be on that leaderboard, just know you're probably competing with double the Number of competitors 18 months from now than you are today. And the only way that you're going to be able to maintain that leaderboard status is if you're able to cut through the noise, be able to stand out, capture the most attention from your prospect more than the, the, the other players are. And building a presence online takes time. Building thought leadership and trust online takes a lot of time. So those software companies that are just coming onto the scene, what they don't have on you is that thought leadership. What they don't have is that built in trust. And if you can preserve that, it's kind of like planting the seeds for the future if you want to stay where, with where you are. Because it will take time, it will take um, a method, it will take tripping and falling, it will take trial and error in order to refine how you want your messaging to be. And then also to build that trust circle online, it will take some time to do that. So it's just a function of saying I'm a top seller right now, like, or I'm on the top 20% of a company's leaderboard. Let's say, do I want to stay there? Right. And staying there is a function of standing out from the noise, standing out from the fact that there's going to be twice the number of players in your space this time next year. Right. That's the key thing. If you can put that ingrained in your mind. And then on top of that, remove the, the, did the, the concept of being uncomfortable, like taking yourself outside of your standard day to day and willing to put yourselves out there. Yes. This fear of judgment, yes. This fear of, of like, um, you know, a lot of people watching you as you build that audience. But the benefits that come down the line so far outweigh it that, you know, I look at myself two years ago and all those thoughts that would come into my mind, I'm like, oh my Gosh, like, it's a fool's errand to think about all the things that could go wrong or all the things that you're not capable of doing and rather focus on, like, what's possible. Is this going to build my audience? Is this going to build my relationship with my target icps? And, uh, ultimately, is this going to improve outcomes?

Speaker B: I want to also point out that it's an advantage that kind of stays with you for life, because there's a couple of things here. One, you just have an unfair advantage in e commerce software sales. Just like, straight up, you have an unfair advantage against, like, every other person out there who's not doing what you're doing. Um, and that's, that's followed you across companies. Um, you are able to replicate that at disco the same way that you were able to do that at TapCart. And number two is, forget the audience. You have a skill set. Like, I have a feeling that if I dropped you in cyber, okay, very m extreme example, cybersecurity sales right now, like, sick. Give it 6 months, 12 months, you will figure out how to essentially replicate this playbook in that industry. And then cybersecurity professionals are going to look at you and like, this Neil guy knows what he's talking about. Um, it's a fundamental skill set. In the same way that somebody gets good at cold calling or gets good at discovery or gets good at negotiating, um, or multithreading, it is a skill set that once you've picked up, you can apply anywhere. So, um, I'll finish off on that note, but thanks for sharing your story, Neil. Super inspiring. Um, hopefully people listening to this, um, like, this is the kick in the pants that they need to, like, wake up and be like, I need to change. And I'm going, I'm, I'm a winner and I'm going to go do something about it tomorrow. So thank you for joining us.

Speaker A: Hey, Parthi, thank you so much for having me. Had an absolute blast. Like I mentioned before, really admired the work that you're doing and just, uh, privileged to have this chat with you today. Absolutely.