307. The Hidden Cost of Being Great at Your Job | Billy Keels

Speaker A: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Learn it all podcast with Damon Lemby. Today Damon's joined by Billy Keels, corporate executive turned freedom strategist. He spent 26 years climbing the corporate ladder at some of the world's biggest companies, leading global teams and sitting across from billion dollar CEOs. But today he helps executives do something that most high performers resist. Separate what they do from who they are. And in today's episode, he breaks down exactly how high performers get trapped and the framework he uses to help them debt free. Today you'll learn how to find your optionality number, the difference between spending time and investing it and how to build a backstop before life forces you to.

Speaker B: So Billy, take us back to that morning. October 2012. It's your kid's three year old birthday. You say goodbye to them, you head out to the airport for another business trip, but your heart sinks. What's going through your mind at that time?

Speaker C: Well, you know, I wasn't even expecting the heart to sink. If I could even take just a couple steps back before that because I woke up that morning very proud of myself, like because I was going to be able to attend the business meeting that was this executive business meeting that was taking place in Germany. Um, and I had also figured out how to actually stay at home so that I could see my son on his third birthday. And so I'm all excited. I wake up, uh, the boy's mother. I wake up my youngest son who's like 1 years, 1 year old, um, and get everybody wake up. I mean just imagine like I'm all full of energy, excited and the whole house is like super sleep. And it was for me just to be able to give a, hey, happy birthday. Everybody gets together, you know, like this. My youngest doesn't really understand what's going on. I'm sure that uh, the boy's mom at the time was like just go and we got a chance to do and sing Happy Birthday. And I was super, super excited about that. And to your point, what I, what I didn't anticipate is what happened later and how I felt because I was so excited about being able to be a part of that day. But the further, like as I got in the elevator and I went down the elevator and I started driving and getting closer to the airport and as I got to the plane, what I started realizing was inside I got further from home and I realized that something was not right anymore because I was like going further away from where I actually physically wanted to be that day. And then of course I get on the plane and my you know just uh, the heart starts sinking like the plane's taking off one way and my heart is sinking the other way and it's just like something, something's not right. I get to the business meeting, we go through this, you know, we're in this exact meeting all day. We're figuring out big company problems and you know, working for enterprise software company at the time, SAP, I talk about that openly. A company that I really, really enjoyed working for for many years. Um, there are very few companies where you can sit down with multi billion euro and dollar Ah CEOs um just because you happen to sell the software that helps them solve their problems. Anyway, the, the thing that it really got difficult and challenging for me was the evening that we were having the dinner. Damon. Um, we're having dinner and back, you know because we're in Germany, it's seven something o' clock at night and of course you don't eat that. You don't have dinner in Spain at seven unless you have a three year old. And so all of the, the time were there and I just, I really, I physically felt sick because it was like hang on a second. Everybody that I wanted to be with, especially like my son celebrating his third birthday party and I'm far physically away from, from from where he is now. What that did for me is it made me realize like yes I enjoy my role and yes I enjoy my job but I also uh, wanted to be uh, and am consider myself to be a very present father. Um, and it was just that day kind of crystallized the thing that was oh man, you know what, Every single thing that I do and own is related to my employer. And so because I enjoyed what I did, I enjoyed. I could just mention to you now sitting down with uh, you know, CEOs and not always just C levels but inside of big organizations. I enjoyed that and I wanted to figure out a way to how can I not feel like I have to get on the plane next time or when the this particular day like I want to just feel comfortable by saying, you know what, today I'm just going to not go on that plane. Uh, I'm just going to stay here all day. Uh and you know that was the catalyst for really being able to set out on this journey to enjoy corporate and also to figure out how can I own more of my own time. So hopefully I answered your question. I like we get right into it, man, I love that.

Speaker B: Now in that particular situation, did you have to get on the plane.

Speaker C: My identity had to get on the plane. Yeah. And what I mean by that was. And so, you know, a lot of things that, that happen to us in the moment, Damon, they happen to us in the moment. And it's not until you have either someone who's already been there before you, or, um, you have the, the, the perspective of time to realize, like, at the moment, I really felt like I needed to be in that meeting. And I say that because it was the, the meeting to have the right alliances, the right connections to get the next promotion and the next, the next step up. Um, I'm sure looking back on it now that I could have said, you know, this is a day that I'm absolutely not going to fly, because I did that later in my corporate career.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I made different decisions later in corporate, and, you know, I stayed in corporate for another, uh, almost decade after that happened. And so if I, if I think, did I have to actually get on the flight or I would've lost my job? I don't think so. But did the identity in the title that was wrapped up in the identity of the person that I was in corporate life, did that person need to get on the flight? Well, that person did get on the flight. And so that was the, uh, that was the whole thing. And that's what I was not realizing inside of me, that where I thought I really wanted to go, which was to, to get the next title, to get the next bigger team, to get the next, you know, whatever, next salary increase, it wasn't the thing that was really the most important to me. I just didn't have the words to articulate it at the time when I

Speaker B: first heard that story. Um, and by the way, listeners, and Billy's got a great podcast going along with Billy Keels. When I first heard that story, it reminds me a little bit of myself sometimes, but a lot of my friends and probably a lot of these listeners, high performers, right, where you're not forced to get on the flight and you want to be a great dad, you want to be a great mom, but you, you go on those anyways, right? And so how do you help somebody like that, who maybe their identity is wrapped up in both their work and always wanting to prove that their value and that they need to make more money. How do you help people realize or become clear with what's most important?

Speaker C: Well, first of all, you get lots of different perspectives, uh, from other people. And you mentioned the podcast. You are such a gracious grac guest in episode 614. So your entire community, uh, should go also listen to you in episode 614, where you absolutely enlightened us and brought in the perspective of life and the different opportunities you seek. And also being really real with us and letting us know not everything is, ah, a bed of roses. So check out episode 614 of the Go along podcast and watch Damon, uh, just wow us. Um, but to that point, how do you help someone to recognize that your identity is not the title? Well, first of all, it's. It's to be able to. 1. That person usually has a feeling that something is, is. Is off. Because if you, if you feel like your title is who you are, then there's probably very little that you can do to help that person until they've come to the realization that, um, whatever it is, that they've taken the time to be intentional. Uh, and this is what happens, I believe a lot of times, a lot of times when we are, uh, in our corporate lives, things are so busy, they're so frantic. It's like they say the corporate business, and I like to say, and take a kind of a little joke of it, is the corporate busyness. And I'm talking about the large multinationals and things like that. It's. It's first of all that that person is recognizing just very much like I was. I went through the process and I realized I couldn't put words on it, Damon, but something just wasn't right. I didn't realize that it was a matter of I was fighting against an own identity that I had created. I created this identity of being a high achie or a high performer. I was going, you, uh, know, every other year to the winner's circle, which is equivalent, a lot of people will call it the president's club. Uh, and I started to realize that I was getting lost. I confused the role that I had with the identity of the person. And when you think that the neck that your identity is really going after the next promotion, it's getting the next biggest team and it's getting to another geography. And when you ask yourself what is the reason that you're doing that? And it's because it's the next step, it's the next logical thing to do, well, whose logic is the question, right? Is it okay if you're in? Also, let me take a step back and just be really clear that if your basic needs are not met, none of this is. None of this applies, right? And I say that, um, with lots of humility. Because I watch both of my parents work two jobs to make ends meet like I am. I'm very much talking about, yes, you already have your basic needs covered. You have food on the table, you have shelter, and you have these types of things, and you have a choice. And when you start to recognize that your identity is not aligned with your values, then it's about being able to help walk that person through and say, okay, is it really about being the vice president of sales, or is it about being able to be in a structure or design the type of life and lifestyle where you are able to be home on your son or your daughter's third birthday party and not feel guilty about not being at the meeting? That's the part that I didn't have right. Um, or let me not put judgment on myself. It wasn't that I didn't have right. I just didn't have clarity about really where I wanted to go. So hopefully that answers your question in terms of the identity and being able to clearly identify that.

Speaker B: So how do you help individuals who are in a similar situation where maybe they don't know when enough is enough or they don't have that clarity yet?

Speaker C: Yeah, so there's a couple different things that I like to do specifically, uh, with people is. And a lot of it is really focusing on three different elements in terms of clarity. Because you. I believe that nothing changes until you are clear, uh, and you get clear. When you get clear, it does something that is like nothing else. It gives you a very distinct power to, uh, decide on what it is that you want to do. And the second part is even more powerful. It gives you the ability to act, uh, on, uh, whatever that idea is. And I like to start with helping, um, you know, people that I'm talking to is. Is really to say, uh, let's talk about, you know, what is. What is the vision for your life? Like, what is the vision for your life? Or some. I call it the ideal day. Are you able to describe that? Right. And when you get to a point where you're. I'm asking someone to describe the day, and you start to realize, Damon, and you and I have talked about stuff like this, right? If. If everything that you talk about has to do with simply the job in the business, well, is that really what your entire life is? So it starts to become a process of reflection. And the is. Is your ideal life really truly waking up every single day, going to work, getting on an airplane, putting out client escalations, working, um, on your next bonus check and hopefully having time that's left over to be able to invest with your family. I notice. I didn't say spend with your family to be able to invest with your family, but you're completely exhausted.

Speaker B: What's the difference between the two? Let's just stop there for a second. What's the difference, uh, between spending time with your family and investing time with your family?

Speaker C: For me, number one, it's a mindset. It's, you know, when you are investing, you're very intentional about what you're doing. Uh, and when you're spending, it's usually what you have left. Um, and so are you being intentional about the way that you are investing time with your family, your loved ones, others, um, or are you giving them what you have left over? You know, and it happens much more frequently normally because we're not being intentional about it. There's nothing wrong with working, uh, 10 hours. If you need to work 10 hours and you understand why you're doing it and those that you love and love, you understand why you're doing it. Um, if it becomes a way of life, it could be very challenging. Um, you know, I, I enjoy when I'm working, when I am investing time, uh, with my, with my family, with my, with my kids, with my clients, um, because I'm being very intentional about what it is, uh, that I'm doing. I enjoy that I'm investing this time with you right now on the podcast to be able to share a story. I'm very, I feel very blessed, very fortunate, um, to be here, uh, as well. You know, if I was just spending time here, I'd probably be going through the motions. Uh, and so those are, I would say, just examples. One, you know, investing, you're very intentional. Uh, when you're spending, you're, you're just doing what, what you have left. Um, I would say, um, one of the other things about Clarity coming back to, you know, how, how do I help, how would I help someone or how do I help people? Is one is, is getting really clear on your vision for your life, because if you can't see it, then you can't believe it. And, and, um, and so it starts there. Uh, it's also, it's really important, especially for anyone who is a high achiever. You have to have a target. And how do you know when enough is enough? You know, we were, we were talking about this before. Usually you say, hey, I'm going to start when I get to, you know, X amount of money. You know, I will, I'll Build this business on the side that's going to give me this freedom. And, and I'm just going to build it until then. Well, until when, um, you know, do everyone has a particular number? Because if you don't have enough, and I think it was Rockefeller said that you know, had an enough number, like once you get enough then that's enough. You don't need to look for more financial gain, uh, because you, you've achieved that goal, but you have to have a number. And I like to talk about, you know, what is your optionality number when you're in your corporate role, when you're enjoying it, when you're building something on the side, when you get to that certain amount of number, when you reach that number, okay, well then you have options. You can continue to go to your role every day because you want to, because you be, because you want to. It's like I spent the last four years in my corporate role. Um, I didn't need the paycheck anymore and it felt great. I loved being able to go into the office. I really liked my role. Uh, but more importantly I loved the fact that I had control over my time. And then the other thing around clarity, and this is really important because I learned this after I was outside of corporate world, uh, the corporate world. I invested 26 years of my life in corporate and I got a lot of great benefit from the uh, corporate world. Um, it helped me and my family to be able to do a lot of things that you know, quite honestly I didn't imagine. But because everything had already gone according to plan, I thought everything would always go according to plan. And a couple years after uh, corporate life, I uh, realized that clarity also needs a backstop. Right. You'll appreciate this as someone who's been in base in baseball all of your life, has ah, played and also helped others. Um, it's really about saying there is a moment that comes where things don't go according to plan. And are you prepared for that as well? So part of clarity, aside from having the vision, aside from having the number, it's also a matter of being able to say what is the plan? Not if, but when things don't go according to plan. You, uh, know. And for, for me, and this is something I've talked uh, a little bit about, uh, but in, you know, a couple years after being outside of corporate, not only did I have a very, very extremely challenging business, uh, relationship and things happen in, in business. Um, also the, the my one of my life purposes in terms of being Married, uh, that came to an end too. And so it was something that I didn't necessarily see that was. That was coming, was going to happen at the. At this very relatively similar times. And so I realized that that part of clarity was something that I could have done better, had that, um, you know, that plan to help make me more resilient, uh, especially considering that I was living, you know, tens of thousands of kilometers or tens of thousand kilometers away or a couple thousand miles, almost seven, 8,000 miles away. Um, see, I've been in Europe for 25 years, so that's, uh, that's also one of the things between France, Italy and Spain. I know we didn't chat about that, but. But, uh, those are the three areas of, uh, of really helping someone to get clear, um, that I really like to focus on is the vision, what's the number? And also to, um, how are you able to protect yourself in the event that things don't go according to plan.

Speaker B: So in our world today, there's a lot of chaos and a lot of complexity. And what I'm hearing from you right now too, is, you know, obviously you got to have a vision. You talked about, you know, know what your number is, and then having a plan, because things will never go exactly as, as you want them to. You know, you can't have those rosy glasses. Um, and for you, I mean, look, you talked about from a work perspective, you had some things happen, but also your marriage came to an end. What advice do you have for our listeners who are going through these chaotic times of how do you get, you know, how do you get through it and pick yourself up and keep moving? That's a lot. All at one time.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a lot. And I was, um, talking to a dear friend of mine, uh, today many times. We think that when we're going through the storm that we're the only ones. And it's, you know, one of the things is, I would say when we talked about investing before, is when you can proactively invest in relationships that, um, can pour into you before you need them. Number one is something I would say to make time, be intentional about the relationships that you forge, about the people that you surround yourself with, because there will come a moment in life where things don't go according to plan. Mentioned, uh, before I had a personal and a professional thing happening. I thought I was the only one. You know, I talked to friends nowadays on, uh, a call earlier today, A friend who has very challenging personal and professional situation that's happening. And so having gone through that myself, it allowed me to not just sympathize, but it's now allowed me to empathize with others. Um, and so being able to get through that, um, was a, you know, it was a really. It was a very challenging time. And keep in mind, like, I made a life decision. I chose to move, uh, to the. Another continent, to Europe. And so, and to build the life that I had around, uh, my boy's mother and primarily her, uh, friends initially. And so between that and building business and being president family there, it's very easy to get lost in those things. But if I come back to, uh, your question as well, which is really about, like, so, so what did I do? Well, number one, as most high achievers, I didn't reach out to anybody else. Why Damon? Because most people come to me so that I can help them with their issues, with their challenges. And whether that be professionally or personally, that's just the. That's. That was part of the identity that I had that I had gotten used to. And it really took lots of humility for me to be able to say, hey, look, I. You know what? This is a really tough time. I need help. And so then going back to those relationships that I was talking about is a really close circle, but I realized that I could start to open up and share more things and be really, really. I know vulnerable is probably an overused word, but I was really going through a lot of heart pain. It was really challenging. I. You know, we talked about the podcast of mine. I stopped doing my podcast because I didn't want to be in front of the camera. I lost 20 pounds. It was a really tough time for me. But what I did after that is I started. I stopped. I started listening to those people that were pouring into me. And there was so many conversations with my mom and with my dad and brother and sister. You know, they're, you know, on the other side of the pond. And then the friends that are here and the people that I started to allow to. To help share their perspective or just listen to me in my moment of need, that was so helpful.

Speaker B: And how did that make you feel? I mean, when you. So Billy, as a high achiever, right, as somebody, and it's like. And you don't want to be vulnerable and say, maybe you think it's weakness, but it's not weakness. Stuff happens, right? It's not weakness at all. But when you finally were able to open up and have a conversation, whether it's with somebody, with your parents or Uh, a friend. What happened? What did that feel like?

Speaker C: It felt scary, right? It felt like, hang on a second. I'm, I'm. I'm the one who's normally on the other end of this. Like, I'm the one that's there. So it felt very unfamiliar for me. Very unfamiliar. But I'll tell you what it also helped me to do. And, and. And this is something that I, That I realized, and it's something that I've just incorporated in my life is. Is really a part of it is perspective. And, and what I mean by that is, no matter how much everybody else was near me, that was able to pour into me, that they listened to me, um, you know, they. We talk about sitting in the mud with me, just, you know, just listening, not doing anything. What I really realized is that so many of the answers are already inside of me. And it got me to a point where I really started understanding what is, you know, introspection, listening to self, and being able to feel comfortable for the first time in my life of just sitting there, uh, in silence by myself. And so many of the answers were already inside of me. And, like, it took a really, really, um, difficult situation where, um, you know, where I was basically said, hey, look, Billy, like, if you don't stop, like, spinning, like, you're losing so much weight, like, you. Things are starting to happen to you, like, you need to, like, you need to get back on track. And that was some. A reaction that was happening. That started to look like, from a physical perspective, I was losing, like, I lost 20 pounds, man. That, that 10 kilos. That's a lot. Um, and it helped me to understand that. I literally looked myself in the mirror and said, like, this is enough. Like, you. You can't do. Like, now is the moment. Like, my, My life was, you know, I was still able to pay all my bills. My kids were still happy. Mike, like, people had been through much worse situations than me, and probably some had never been anywhere near the type of situation that I was going through mentally, emotionally, physically, uh, financially. But I had to have that conversation with myself. And I'm the person that had to say, okay, yeah, you have lots of support, reach out to everybody else, but you've got to be the one that gets up every day, and you've got to be the one that, you know, starts pushing forward, and you have to be the one that puts your life on the path that. That you want it to be on. Like, you can sit here and sulk all day, but your. Your life relatively Speaking, Billy. It's not that bad. It's really not that bad. Um, um. So it was a matter of having that love, that support, but then also too literally looking myself in the mirror, saying, now's the moment. Um, um. And so, you know, I've continued to be able to, um, invest time with my boys, um, you know, meet wonderful people like yourself and, and other people around the globe and be able to also. Yeah, ah, serve them at the. At the highest level in a way that. That makes sense for me in. In my life.

Speaker B: How do you help someone who has the mindset that the world's happening to them instead of not for them? You know, your typical victim mentality.

Speaker C: Yeah. That. That can happen, uh, a lot. And that is really just. It's helping that person to, you know, is similar to what I. As I was. I was talking about. It's. It's really easy to fall into that victim mentality, even if you don't ever consider yourself a victim. Right. And I'll use myself as an example. Um, you know, it's. It would have been easy to say, hey, look, all of this stuff is because it was happening to me. I didn't feel like it was fair. I didn't feel like it was the right thing, and I had never done anything wrong to anybody else. And it was a matter of being able to say, well, there's gotta be a reason that you're going through this, Billy. You know, and then I started looking into, uh, more and reading more and understanding, like, well, hang on a second. This is really just the perspective that I'm. That I'm taking on an event that has happened in my life. I still have my sons, and it's asking the. It's asking the questions. I still have my health and I still have people that love me. And so does a victim really have people that love them? Are they able to live the life and the lifestyle that they want to live, where they want to live? Um, and it's really getting the person to recognize through questioning or through helping them understand. Like, yeah, there's. You're in a challenging moment, but it's a moment in time. It doesn't last forever. Um, um. And it's a matter of surrounding yourself with the people that are, uh, there who, who love you, who care for you, and, uh, helping them to have the perspective for. That's the thing that I have found, whether it be myself or helping other people, is to understand what is the perspective, uh, of life that you're actually living and going through. Um, because that's when you start to realize that it can be a really a soft moment to say, yeah, you're a victim or you're going through something, but you start to realize, like, yeah, you're going through a challenging situation and you have to have gratitude for what you're going through. And you realize that, you know, tomorrow you're going to wake up and tomorrow's another day, and you have another opportunity to show others that, uh, that you are bringing and putting your best foot forward.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, what I, what I hear you saying, which I think is great, is first of all, putting it in perspective. You know, you're not saying to downplay your pains or troubles, right? Because, uh, they are there and they're making you feel that way. But be grateful for the things you have, your health and your family in this case. And, uh, that's just. That's so important. And also that you don't have to go at it alone. Right? I mean, you don't. You. You do need to do the inner reflection and ask yourself those questions, but you also need to be able to reach out to people. And that kind of goes back to, you know, your step three of having. Having a plan for Doomsday is to proactively pour into your network. Um, and, you know, guys like me and you, we always want to help people. And that's important because, you know, we all, we all know those people who. You don't hear from them until they actually need something. Right. You know, um, it doesn't work that way. You got to be. You got to be proactive. And a lot of people, you know, you and I talked about this beforehand, uh, what happened March 30th, I, um, believe it was with Oracle, where 30,000 people lost their job. Now, that wasn't their responsibility or maybe even their fault, right? But, um, at a point, let's talk a little bit about being a corporate number and how you can help prepare yourself if something like that does happen to you.

Speaker C: Like, this is a. This is. For some, it may be hard to accept or hear, but it's just a reality. Um, every single relationship ends. Everyone, right? Corporate relationship, personal relationship, whatever, they all end when we bring it to the corporate side of things, is where I like to invest a lot of my time is. It's. It's just a reality. Like, you talk about the corporate number, and I remember for the. In my last corporate role, for every morning for 16 years, I put in the same number into my computer. Literally a number. It started with An I. And then I had my number six digits to start my computer, and throughout the day to unlock my computer, I was reminding myself every day that this was my number, this was my I number. And so I had a great ride. Like, I really enjoyed my, my corporate experience. I, I used to say I loved it with perspective. I realized I liked it a lot. I loved working with so many talented people that I did. And I really, really, really liked my job. And it took that day on, in the month of October of 2012 for me to realize, like, part of that identity was starting to shake. And I realized that, you know, what? Come, um, I almost said companeros. It's. I. Sometimes when you're speaking five languages, it goes a little bit and my brain goes a little bit all over the place. But I started realizing, like, along the way, like, that started happening. Um, people that were what I considered at the time, maybe a little bit further in their journey had many years more than me were getting laid off. People that I saw that were high achievers because they had a, you know, didn't get along well with the boss because there was a change in the hierarchy, laid off, but they were high performers, they were doing their job, they were showing up, they were working the hours. Um, and I started realizing, like, I didn't want to be in that situation because I liked my job. I, my, my heart was broken when I, when I, you know, got on the plane and flew to that, to that meeting. And I started realizing, like, okay, in this whole perspective of every single corporate relationship ends, I wanted to be in the position that if it were to end, if my number were called because the boss changed because somebody that was, um, in, you know, uh, in the US or in Germany decided that, hey, listen, we need to. Just like they did the other day you mentioned the Oracle, the 30,000 thing. Like, we need to eliminate 8 billion off of the, of the line, um, of a line item. And my number was called. Like, I didn't want that to affect my life. I wanted to be in control, have feeling that I was, you know, feel that I was much more in control. And I knew that in order to do that, I couldn't just depend on the one paycheck. And, you know, I even wrote about the other day on LinkedIn. I, you know, I, and I have a belief that, you know, the. Every single company is an organism. Like, it is an organism. It has to survive. It has to do the things that keep it alive because it has to actually provide opportunities for other people. So it will do things that are in its best interest. That doesn't make it bad. It's just doing what it has to do. It has to survive. It has to serve its clients. It has to serve its clients and its customers in the best way that it can. And so when I think about this whole, uh, every single relationship ends well. I'd much rather be in the position that if. If it. If I choose to end it, because I'm, um. You know, maybe you're going to get a promotion and you're leaving that role or some other employer hires you and you're going to get a better salary or better benef or you're closer to the beach or whatever is important to you. It's better to be in the. On the side where you could actually make the decision and not feel hurt or lost or, uh, out of control. If your employer, for whatever reason, has to make the decision that today is your last day at the office. Um, and so it's really about being able to be in a. In a. In a m. In a mindset and taking the right actions. So it doesn't matter if the relationship ends. Your life and the life that you've intentionally designed for yourself and your family, if you're so fortunate, can continue regardless. Like, that's. That's the thing that I am really, uh, passionate about and helping other people that are in corporate, especially if you like what you're doing in corporate, continue to like it. I liked it for a really long time, Damon. I, you know, I shared with you, like, my corporate life ended not because I didn't like corporate. It's because I didn't want to keep asking my boss and putting him in a difficult situation because my father got really, really ill and I didn't need the paycheck. And so I didn't want to put my boss in a position where like, hey, look, man, I know I'm working for the Spanish market, but I need to be back in the United States because there's some things that I want to be present for.

Speaker B: So, Billy. So somebody's listening to us and saying, hey, I think that's great that Billy didn't need his paycheck, but guess what? I do m. Need my paycheck. So how do you help your customers? I want to talk more about your customers that you're working with now, but how do you help your customers take those actions, but also make sure that they're balancing. You know, they want to get the most out of their corporate benefits they have while also building Something on the side.

Speaker C: Yeah. So the first part is to recognize that it doesn't happen overnight. Right. It's, uh, it's. For my. My personal journey was eight years, right? It started in that heartbreaking moment in 2012. And at the time, I didn't realize I walked. I was just walking into it. I just wanted to not have to feel like I had to get on the plane again. Um, and so the first part is to recognize that it doesn't happen overnight. Um, the second part is if I was able to do it, then you can do it. The question is now what is the plan to actually be able to do that? And the plan is really simple. It's a simple plan. And you and I were talking about, like, the first part of the plan is really to be able to gain clarity. Because if you don't know what it is that you want to do, then when things get difficult, I promise you, you will stop doing it. Damon, you and I both been there, right? Like, when things are tough, if you're not really clear on what you want to do and why you want to do it, it's really easy to say, okay, well, I'm going to go do this other thing because I'm really clear that I want to.

Speaker B: Is that because you. It, it's either you're frustrated or, or you're just like, well, I, I don't have a direction on this. So I mean, I'm. I'm just going to give up.

Speaker C: I mean, it, it is really. It is. It's about that. Because when we are less clear on what it is that we want to do, then. Then we don't do it. So it's like when you wake up in the morning, you, you, you wake up and you know that you have to leave by a certain time. Right? And it's like my kids, when they wake up in the morning, they're. They're on, they're up and they're. They're out. They know that they both have to be out at 7:30. Well, in order to be out at 7:30, there's some very clear things they have to do. They get up, they wash their face, they brush their teeth, they go have their breakfast. Sometimes they have to study because they got a test and they didn't study enough the night before. But there's very clear steps that they're doing to be able to get out the door by 7:30. Right. That they know that that's what they want to do. Um, but if they happen to really just wake up On a Saturday it's very different because their plans are different. Uh, you know, they don't have to be out the door at 7:30. So everything starts with clarity, which, which was what we talked about before and to your point then it's about really recognizing uh, in your corporate role. Like for me I, I really enjoyed it. And we, and we understand what are the things that you are doing in your corporate role because it's really important to continue to excel. I don't, I don't, I like working with high achievers because high achievers know that it's about not just being average, it's about doing uh, doing more than is expected. And don't get me wrong, one thing is, is every organism, every corporate entity is, expects every role to produce a certain value. And it's more, I'm more than, I've worked with more people that are in sales organizations. So it's really clear like you produce this amount of money. Some of them have um, you know, profitability, uh, targets but most of them are top line revenue targets. If you do anything over a hundred percent and you've done more than the company has asked of you. So one of the questions becomes do you need to continue to do the extra 15 hours a week when you're already doing 60, 60, 65 hours, did you need to do those extra 15 to get to 280%? Or would 200% have been enough if you got 10 of those hours back that you can actually go and take your child to daycare uh, in the morning or you can do the things that you want to do or maybe you begin to uh, invest in yourself. You're maybe building your brand or maybe you're building, you're buying that next building or you're starting your non competing consultancy, right? Because you have more of your time back and you're still going to overproduce, you're still going to get that big bonus check. It may not just be as big as the bonus check that, that you had before. And then once you're able to, to make sure that you are doing the things that allow you to continue to excel in your role, you start to recognize like okay, you've gotten some of that time back, you're still going to overproduce, you're still going to overproduce against what the company wants. And then as I mentioned, you're taking that and you're beginning to build out and having more control uh, of the income that you're producing and the time that you are utilizing. Right. That you are investing. So those are the three steps that I like to look at and that I walk corporate senior leaders through, which is getting, Gaining the clarity, uh, being able to integrate your career and then gaining control of both your income as well as more, uh, of your time. And that's what I like to say and show, uh, gives you the pathway to being able to make your role optional and. Optional. Right. It is really, truly. It's a, It's a design architecture. It's, it is not about saying, I have this option and I'm leaving. No. I was in corporate for 26 years and I was very, very, uh, happy, uh, up until the very, you know, last time that I mentioned to you, it was more about, um, I didn't want to keep asking my boss to fly back and forth because I didn't need to do that and I didn't want to put him in a, in a weird position. So hopefully. Does that answer your question, Damon?

Speaker B: A hundred percent. And I really like how you talk about optionality and, you know, digging through your, Your episodes, um, the other day, uh, one of the things I also liked is that how people talk about. You're just kind of touching on it, about how they get it wrong about money, what money's for. Um, what have you found that money is actually for?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, and this takes it back even a little bit more. So there, first of all, there's the, there's the money aspect and then there's what is. It's, it's truly currency is what most of us are talking about, the fiat stuff. Um, but what it is, is, number one, it's, it's an exchange of value. Uh, and, and what I realize is that it is a tool, right? Money is a tool to be able to, at the end of the day, I believe it's to help you be able to have the, to have the time to be able to purchase time, to utilize the way that you want, to invest the way, uh, that you want. So, uh, but for many, many years, I gave money way too much, um, way too much power, uh, and it wasn't until later in life that I realized that money is simply a tool, um, that should be used to help, uh, others, to help you to contribute to others. And then in exchange, it should be able to help you get, uh, more of your time to leverage the way that you like.

Speaker B: That's what I was looking for because, you know, time is that one asset you can't get back at all. Right. And some of us Forget that, we forget that and you know, you wake up and your kid's 14 years old or you know, all that. So I want to pivot a little bit so to what you're doing now and you've mentioned a couple of times working with high performing corporate leaders before we get into the work that you do with them, what is a pattern or something, you see a trait or something like that across the board in people who are truly high performers.

Speaker C: Most of them really don't uh, need much other than the direction that they're going when they're inside of the corporate walls. Right. Um, because as m, one of the things that I really, really truly enjoy about uh, corporates and especially large multinationals is everything is so well defined. So typically what you need is someone who is just going to be able to execute, to do. Right, the role is defined. And whether you're talking about the um, we're talking about these multi billion euro companies, right, you may have a CEO of a particular region. Well typically they are in a uh, sales capacity. So their role regardless of all the other things that are going on is really to be able to drive revenue. Um, and so that is your role, that's the only thing that you need to do and that's what you focus on. And so ah, a corporate high performer given the scope is typically I would, no I'd say is, is going to be able to um, look at what needs to be done and execute against that target with very little additional direction. That person also is thinking about the people I work with is someone who's also able to bring people together uh, in terms of being able to get them to be, get around a vision, they're able to get the right resources. And when I talk about resources I'm not just talking about financial resources. I mean they, they're right able to bring the right executive support, they're able to bring in the right client uh, reference case that's going to help whoever uh, client situation that they are helping to get solved. And most importantly, most importantly at the end of the day they are able to solve a problem. And whether that is an internal problem, um, through stakeholder management or an external client problem, they are able to get um, problems solved or resolved with very little uh, additional attention.

Speaker B: Is that because the last one to problem solve is that because of creativity, adaptability, learning, agility, those kind of things?

Speaker C: Well usually it's because they, they've understood what, what it takes to one, they're able to clearly identify a, a problem. Um, um, you Talk about agility. A lot of it is understanding, um, the environment that, that they're in and what needs to. What needs to take place. They're usually very, very curious, voracious learners. Um, um, and, and they don't just stay in the theory. Right. They go from the theory and say, how quickly can I apply what I'm learning right now? Ah, to understand what gaps could exist. Um, so, yes, they could start from the theory, but what makes them expert is they take a sound theory and they're then able to apply it, uh, quickly. And they recognize if they're not solving the issue, then they adjust. But I would say it is a curiosity. It's the ability to learn and to adapt.

Speaker B: So what are two or three situations or reasons why somebody, uh, reaches out to you to, to work with you as a coach?

Speaker C: Yeah. One of the biggest things is there are someone who is very similar to that that I described, uh, before. What I typically find is there's something that's happening in life. Um, you know, and, and we talked about a little bit, um, Damian and I, I just want to restate this. Um, the, the, the business that I'm in. I am helping people. And if you're looking at from the outside, you're really saying, yeah, but you're, you're helping people who are high earners. You know, these are people that are corporate executives, and, um, you know, they don't have any problems. Well, the reality is, is they do have problems. Um, I used to think that money solved all problems. 2023 taught me that money doesn't solve all problems. Money solves money problems. And when you have someone who has come and they understand that their corporate life has become their only identity, not because anything other than, well, they really enjoy the title. They're moving to the next role because they want to move to the next role. But they also recognize that their days could potentially be limited. And that's happening a lot more today. A lot more. For whatever reason. I don't know if it's just specifically the AI thing or what's happening, but there is a lot of revelation of people waking up saying, hey, I've just been going through this, going through the motions. Yes, I'm making really good money, but I've missed so many of my, uh, events that I wanted to be at for. Whether it's my kids or my parents are getting older, and I'm still stuck in this role. I'm like, yeah, but you're making, you know, 6, $700,000 and you're and people would go whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a second. How is that they can't have any problems? Well, in your identity you start to recognize that there is a disconnect between your, the identity, the values, the core to being present at the dinner table in the evening when your family is there, not instead of walking in the door four days later. And everybody turns around at the dinner table and is more surprised to see you at home than on the road and talking to you on the phone. Like that person has a problem and I'm here to help that person to solve that problem so that they don't feel that they are just simply there to um, provide benefits, a car and money and things like that. Because not everybody wants that. You just fought, you fall into the trap because you haven't been intentional, you've just gone to the next thing because that's what everybody has told you to do. So that person that I'm helping, helping solve a first world problem, it's an extremely important problem because it's your problem. And when you're going through that pain, when you're going through you know, your family looking at you and don't recognize you, you don't want to do that. You want to be there. You want everybody to, to be more happy that you're home than you being away on the road. Because life just feels different and more calm.

Speaker B: Without giving any specific names, can you, can you share a six out story of working with one of your customers?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, yeah, so like there's a uh, there's a uh, a client I've been working with uh, for, for quite a while and, and when you, and yeah, I won't, I won't say too, too much but um, but I will say that when you look at someone who is a corporate executive from the outside and they're in a you know a high growth industry like enterprise software sales or ah, media or pharma. But on the outside everything looked like uh, things were just perfect for with this particular client, has the right type uh, of job, um, is able to be with family but also spends a lot of time, this particular person spends a lot, a lot of time on the road, had a very successful business that was going on the side. But the challenge that was happening when we first met was all of like home life uh, was going well, young children um, but also too there was less communication that was happening at home, uh, between the spouses, you know, feeling uh, a little bit awkward because the work was everything was the center of conversation all the time, um, things at the office were going well. You know, promotions, uh, were a recent promotion, uh, and also to the team of this exec were performing well. You know, they could always be performing better, but changes in the team that caused additional stress because you have to find. He had to find somebody else or this person had to find somebody else. Um, and also the business on the side, the business on the side was actually working very well. It was working well to the point that it was generating money. It wasn't as profitable, uh, as the, as the client would have liked it to be, but because of the growth, it was causing lots of chaos because there were not true systems in place. So when we started, you know, present at home, not as much as like to. However, there's, you know, some, some stress between the spouses. Um, isn't it. The work was going well and a lot of the focus was actually on the job because that's just what happens. That's where we start. Um, and then the side business was growing, but just, it was really chaotic. There was no structure to it. And over time what we realized is we're working on the first of all on the things that are the most important to the exec, which is being present at home. And when I say present, we're not just talking about being physically present. Still on the road frequently. But now when this, when this client is at home, it's really important that the day that this client is at home, taking the children to school in the morning can't always make it in the afternoon. But the important part is we're not going to school anymore with the phone and on a call on the way, taking the kids to school. It's a 10 minute ride. And we're talking about what's happening at school. Right. We're now also finding, and this is a little bit, going a little bit more, but finding that night every month, right. Starting with the month to have that spousal interaction, you're probably thinking, yeah, Billy, but you're talking to me earlier about clarity. You talked to me about the corp, the career, and you talked about control. Well, yeah, the way that I like to work with my clients, I'm working one on one with my clients. So yes, we go around a core, um, a core framework. At the same time, it's about helping align values and what are the things that are important. And so, um, this particular client that you asked me to think of, I'm thinking of, um, that the most important is family. And so those quality moments and creating that Presence, physical and mentally present. Because that's really important. Most m. Time we forget about being mentally present. Like, yeah, I'm always with my family. Is your phone present? Yeah, well, of course. Well, okay. Well, are you really present? Because I remember when I was in corporate and I was on the phone, uh, many times. You're not.

Speaker B: That's something we all struggle with, you know, beyond, you know, putting your phone away. Do you have any tips, hacks, or exercises somebody can do to either learn how to become more mentally present with your family or at least be able to call themselves out to identify when they're not.

Speaker C: When they're not being mentally present? Well, one. I even instituted this here. Uh, one is just being able to give the authority to have the open conversation and say, hey, look, what are the. What are the values that we want? And when we talk about presence, what does that actually mean? So let's define it. Okay, well, that means no phone while we're in the bathroom. Well, why? Because, well, when we're in the bathroom with the phone, you may stay and, you know, talking for those that have kids and, you know, you may stay in there a lot longer. Well, we want to be present together as a family. Um, so it's not just keeping the phone away, but it's having the conversation. Damon. Like, okay, well, what does presence actually mean to us? Um, and then being able to hold one another accountable. And it's like everything else, it doesn't happen overnight, but when we at least talk about it, then we're not hiding it. And there's not a frustration to say, well, well, you're always. With your phone, you're always doing this, you're always doing that. It's. Hey, remember we talked about when we're. When we're together at the dinner table, um, there are no phones. Or, uh, when. When we're coming, when we're walking in the door of the house. We're not going to walk in the door of the house on the phone having a conversation with someone else. Like, we're going to walk in, we're going to be fully present. We're going to have, uh, say hello, and then maybe, you know, five minutes later, you need to go make a call, but we're going to walk in. Being fully present with one another, it's not taking the phone away. It's just not actively being on the phone. Is that. Does that answer your question?

Speaker B: 100%. I love it. I mean, so essentially is, you know, what are your values? Um, and what is it? And then really defining what, what it means to be present mentally. Uh, present. You know, it's not just being in the room, it's, it's being focused. And as, you know, silly as it might sound, not having the phone in the bathroom, that's a good one. Right? Because you might stay an extra couple of minutes or whatever. Right. You know, as an excuse to do it, you know. And so if you set those guidelines and you stick to them and you have your spouse or your kids, whatever, I know my kids will keep you accountable. Um, I think that, I think that that is a great unlock right there Billy, that um, that you can apply and make direction with that. So getting back to that customer, two part question one. How long did it take from the start of your engagement to start seeing some change? And, and where are they at now with their journey?

Speaker C: It usually happens around three month mark. You can, you can start to see like noticeable change, but it's a matter of, of picking what is the thing that's the most important because these, if you're especially a lot of it. I, I like to, I, I, even when I was in corporate I invested a lot of time in understanding behavior, human behavior. And so the more that we talk uh, about behavior and the more that we're aware of behavior and I like to use a specific predictive um, index is something that um, I, I've used for a long time and it's, it's a matter of recognizing okay, well what is this person's normal uh, behaviors, what's the environment they're in, et cetera, et cetera. And really focusing on, on that one thing and being able to do it consistency consistently. Um, the client's actually now been just, I think just over a year. Yeah, just over a year, um, together and so seeing a lot more uh, presence at home. So that's one of the things that is a, is a focus uh point, uh, at the corporate role, um, not only promotion but also uh, working less hours than was worked before, um, traveling one day less per week as well. Um, and a lot of times I think this ties back to, and it was a great question that you asked me earlier. Like did I really need to get on that plane? Well now with reflecting back on it, I didn't need to get on that plane um, for my own journey. Is it something that I'm grateful for? Absolutely. Because I wouldn't have made the changes that I made in my life. Um, but once I can help other people to recognize, like do you really need to get on the plane or is it the other identity that you're actually trying to break out of? Um, that feels like it needs to be on the plane. And that's one of the, that's one of the really important breakthroughs, uh, that you start to see is how much of identity is wrapped up in a role versus what you actually want to do, the person that you want to be. Um, um. And so I'd say that, I would say that that's uh, that's one of the, that's one of the main, uh, the, the main things, uh, as, as everything done in a hundred percent. Well, no, but there's a lot of, of progress. More presence at home, less traveling, uh, days. And uh, the side business is also uh, beginning to, you know, take more, is taking more structure, um, having more projects. I want to stay kind of ambiguous was having more projects that are, that are beginning to take place. Um, and doing it a way where um, my client, you know, feels very much like the, the insight, the strategic advice, the things that I've been through that worked well, that are also working for this client. Um, and in that setting I'm able to be very open about the things in business that worked well and the things that were extreme challenges and can help from. You know, someone said to me once, like, when everything goes well, like, um, that's one thing. But when things don't go well, that's where a lot of value. You can help other people. And you know, I'm fortunate to say I'm grateful for the things that have happened. And uh, not everything goes according to plan, but I can. Something that I maybe paid full price for in business, I can help someone else, um, not pay full price for.

Speaker B: I like to call it, I mentioned this before, I like to call it the dummy tax. Right. I mean I've already paid this tax and you don't have to pay the dummy tax. You know, question I have is when customers come to you, you know, prospects come to you, how baked is it that they have like a side business already? Uh, or is it typically they come to you with their corporate job and then you help them determine what would be a great, you know, passive income or side business?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's something that I actually, um, the majority, and I would say more than uh, 75% of the, of the people that come and move forward are ah, people that have a side business. They usually are struggling a little bit. They thought it was going to be a bit easier than it was and they're in it and they're realizing okay, now I'm overwhelmed at the office. I'm overwhelmed now with this side business. Um, and so they're looking to figure out, okay, how do I start to put more, um, order around all this chaos that I'm living through. I know that this works, um, but I'm stuck right now. Um, and those are usually more, I would say those people have more traditional, like, uh, they started investing and now they're building out portfolios and things like that. Uh, one of the things we started recognizing is that there are more people that are wanting to say, hey, listen, I have a lot of expertise. I have a lot of, you know, corporate experience that I want to leverage. I just don't know how to leverage this. You know, I have somebody, um, now who wants to, is working with women who are going through, uh, issues with menopause and they say, okay, well I've done a corporate leadership and now I want to be able to, um, take the things that I've learned through my own life experience and be able to, uh, help other women who maybe are incorporate into that. So it's more, it's more moving towards how do I take my own brand that I have from corporate. And maybe I'm starting to share some things on social media, uh, and I'd like to be able to, you know, help and serve other, uh, other people that are going through something very similar because I've been through it myself and I have all this corporate experience. I know these skills are worth something. I've led teams of, you know, you know, hundreds of people or I have, you know, managed, you know, eight, eight figure budgets and, and these types of things. So they're usually on one of those two camps, but the majority of them typically, uh, are already in a side business or feeling maybe a little bit stuck or overwhelmed.

Speaker B: You know, one of the things you just said a second ago is, um, you know that your skills are transferable. And I think that's, that's so true at any part of your career, um, especially later on. And the other thing that you, you mentioned that I want to kind of pivot to as we begin to close up is a, ah, brand. And one of the cool things that both you and I have done for our brand are these podcasts. And um, so I wanted you to share a little bit about, um, I know you even have an episode on, you know, what you learned in your, your five years of podcasting. Because I'm always out there, Billy, trying to pump up people and tell them to start their own podcasts. So for our listeners out there, let's talk a little bit about, uh, how the podcasting has helped or changed your life.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, podcasting for me, I, I've never, I don't. Well, I've never told this story before. So I'm, um, Podcasting for me is like a really personal thing. And a lot of that is because. So number one, I was told by a business coach that I had in. I personally, um, had. I made an investment while I was in corporate. I invested $75,000 in a, in a coach, uh, for a one on one coaching program. Uh, most of my family thought I was absolutely insane. Like, why would you invest that much money? Why would you, you know, why would you do this, you know, you know, so much like, why would you ever possibly invest that much money in somebody who's, you know, you've never even met, right. Person who's living on the other side of the world? And one of the things that, um, that this coach told me was, you know, it's, it's a great way to, to build your platform. I'm talking, this is back in 2017, by the way. And I was just really concerned because I was still in my corporate job. You know, I'm in this, you know, highly visible role. I'm making really good money, you know, quote unquote, making really good money. And um, and I thought to myself, I, I can't risk it. I can't put myself out there. I don't want people knowing that I'm doing something on the side. Like, what will they think? Will they think that I'm not committed because I've got this podcast and then is that going to put my role in jeopardy? Will they, like all of these like, fears that were going through me, like, I can't put myself out there. I was okay playing around on Facebook a little bit at that time because it was like people didn't know if it was, you know, personal or, or it was business. But when you put yourself out there as a podcast at the time, there was a lot of fear around me actually doing it. So I did what any high performer is really committed to corporate is, is like, I'm not going to put this job in jeopardy. So I didn't do it. And I kept thinking, thinking, thinking, in 2020, finally this, um, this thing called the Global Pandemic Happens, actually recorded one episode in January 2020. Um, and then the pandemic happened. And then I recorded my second episode in April of 2020. Just to give you an idea right but at the time, I was told, um, that I should never do the podcast. And this was somebody that I was sharing my life with, like, don't do the podcast. This is not something that you should do. And blah, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of, you know, I thought to myself, wow, you know what? Maybe I don't do the podcast. And I couldn't explain it, Damon. I couldn't explain it, man. But it was like, it was. It was the thought leadership thing. Yeah. That my coach said, but there was something inside of me that said, like, do the podcast, Billy. Like, you're. You're supposed to do the podcast. And I joke around, even nowadays with my sons is like, I, uh, I, like, I remember being in the. In this room, and I'm have this makeshift table, and the kids are coming in, and I'm telling them to be quiet and pointing my finger underneath the table, like, you can't come in because I'm in the middle of this really important thing. Um, and I remember just being so nervous on the first episode and the second episode, and before I knew it, it was like this thing that I was really afraid of, and this thing that I was told don't do. Um, it's been one of the biggest things that's really helped me through one of the most challenging times in my life. Not only has it opened up doors to be able to meet some of the most amazing people, um, ever. Uh, the first phase of my podcast, you know, I sat down with people that had raised over a billion dollars of investment, you know, and had, you know, 30,000 apartment units, and I would have never been able to sit down with them in that short of a period of time without the podcast. Uh, it gave me such confidence, uh, to be able to go out. It gave me the platform to be able to learn so much more and create a network of people, um, around the globe. The globe. And, you know, it really hurt when I was going through my challenging time in 2023 because I stopped interviewing guests because I didn't want to be in front of a camera because I lost so much weight. I felt like my heart was heavy. And now, even today, the podcast is a way for me to continue to, um, to continue just not only to. To heal, but every single podcast episode I go out on, it's like, wow, you know what? I. This. I. I love doing these podcasts. I love being able to sit down and be connected. You know, Valerie connected us, and Damon. I'm, you know, I feel very, very blessed and privileged to know you, um, and this would not have happened without the podcast. Right. And so I believe that podcasts can transform, uh, your life. I understand that there's fear that can go on, especially if you're in a corporate role and you feel like this is going to put you out there. But you know, think about it. Back in the day, like, I don't know, there were three or 4,000, three or 4 million podcasts. Now there's over 5 million podcasts. Um, I never thought I would have a podcast that was in the top 1.5% of podcasts globally and be able to meet and speak to people or have 620 some odd episodes published already. And I still want to do more because I really enjoy it. Like, and I just, like I'm sitting here watching you with the smile and like I'm smiling in my face and in my heart is smiling because of the podcast. And you know, and it's just, um, yeah, I really, really, I truly do love this medium in terms of being able to meet people, in terms of being able to share and knowing that somebody, whenever this episode is published, is going to be walking somewhere in some place on the planet that you and I will never, ever know. And hopefully this conversation has helped them to be able to say, you know what, I'm not alone, or, you know what, yeah, I am going to do this thing. And I'm so glad that Damon and Billy talked about this topic. I didn't think that they would even get onto this topic or somebody's swimming or running on a treadmill. It's just such a, I think it's a, uh, well, I don't think, I know that It's a very, very powerful, uh, medium and I am glad that I decided to move forward and I feel very blessed that have a great team that helps me with the podcast and, yeah, and just to be able to create, uh, new relationships, man. So, yeah, so I could go on and on for podcasts, but, uh, I'm a big believer.

Speaker B: Well, I appreciate you doing that because, um, now it's like preaching to the choir around it. And so many people come to me, curious founders, people in corporate, you know, you, you turn into this podcast guy. I, I, you know, I, I, I am considering it myself and not only will I, uh, share with them my, almost exactly what you're talking about, it gives you more confidence, makes you a better listener. My wife doesn't agree with that all the time, but I, I still think it does. And, and uh, while you have the

Speaker C: why you have the earphones on.

Speaker B: Yes, you are. It. It allows you to step into conversations that maybe you had imposter syndrome before. Like the guy who's, uh, you know, a woman who's a billion dollar 30,000 units. I mean, it gives you. It gives you this. This confidence and, and, you know, you go from your first episode being terrible to your 600s, and you get better and better. But not only are they going to hear my story, but I'm going to make sure that they. They hear yours as well. So. I couldn't agree more, Billy. And for any of you out there considering it, just get out there and do it. So, Billy, as we wrap up here, you know, we started off this conversation talking about, you know, the guilt you had, you know, on. On the way to the airport, you know, as a dad. Right. You know, and, and how it changed your life. But let's add it on. Give me a proud moment. Uh, as a dad, what is something that comes to mind with your boys that makes you say, you know what, Billy? Uh, I'm a great dad.

Speaker C: I think they'll be okay with me sharing this. After going through, um, divorce and things like that. For going through divorce specifically, it was a moment for me to also ask questions like, what are the things that are important for me and what do I. What's the example that I want to set for my boys? And, um, one of the practices that we do is actually we sit down at the table and we say the things that we're thankful for, um, every week before they, you know, before they leave. Uh, like I said, I think they'll be okay with this, but. And it's not a. It's not a. It's not like something major, but just the fact that every single week that I have the opportunity to sit down with both of my sons and we can share with one another, like, what are we thankful for, for as it relates to one another? I feel very, very like that makes me feel very loved as a father. Um, and it. What my hope is is that also for my sons that it is something that helps them to feel loved as well. Um, to be. To be seen, to be acknowledged and something that they will, um, take on and move, uh, take, you know, take and hopefully have with. With their kids or create something else that's. That's special. But when we have that moment together, uh, of what we're thankful for, and gratitude is something that I, you know, I, I'm just very, very blessed, Very, very blessed for those moments because they're. They're small moments, uh, and they're really impactful. And, you know, we fill up this little bottle and it's. It's super cool. Super cool.

Speaker B: Your boys are lucky to have you as dad, you know, and I'm, I'm grateful for the time you spent, uh, with me today and our, in our friendship. Um, thanks to podcasting and to Valerie Bowden for setting us up. Where can our, um, listeners connect with you at?

Speaker C: Yeah, um, the. The best way, like if someone's listening and they're thinking, hey, listen, this, this story really sounds. It resonates with me. Um, you can go to makeitoptional.com I, uh, put together a little guide and it talks you around, like, exactly, you know, other people that I've worked with and helped into some of my philosophy. So that's, that's probably the best way. But, uh, you and I both know I am also very active, uh, over on LinkedIn. And so as you've been listening already, it would really, really, uh, appreciate just sending an invitation, uh, or connection request on LinkedIn. Let me know that you've already heard, uh, Damon and I speak here. It just helps the, the conversation, uh, go that much faster. And then, um, I know you say you should usually give one way, but anyone, um, also sees my name, you can just type in billykills.com and you can find me there. Uh, so with that, Damon, I, like you said, man, I'm very, um, yeah, with lots of humility. I appreciate the opportunity to be here, uh, to share this conversation with you and your guests on Learn it all podcast. It's, uh, really, really special. I love the energy that you bring. Um, you make me feel as a guest very, uh, viewed, uh, very, uh, like you've done your homework. And, uh, I know that everybody that sits on the other side of the platform from you feels very much the same, if not even better, I'm sure. So thank you very much. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and share a little bit of my story. Thank you.

Speaker B: No, uh, I appreciate you coming here and doing this. And I do want to say, I told you this before we started. I want to make sure our audience to go to your. Check out your podcast, you know, going long. Um, I love Billy's, you know, 10 to 12 minute, uh, solo episodes and he refers back to them. There's so many great learning lessons there. And maybe you can send me some links. I could put even, like the, uh, like the clarity exercise and everything. There's, there's a lot of great takeaways that you can get in short time. So thank you so much, Billy. No challenge to our listeners. Are you a corporate number? You most likely are, right? I mean, we all are if you're working a corporate job. So what are you doing to help prepare for that doomsday when things don't go right, you know, because, um. M. Do you have a backup there? You know, and also, I want you to think about, you know, this goes out to my friends and myself. Are you getting on planes that you don't need to be on? Right? And are you passing up? Are you losing time with your family that you should be getting back? Or are you somebody who's got a side business going on and maybe it's going a little chaotic? And if you are, then you need to reach out to Billy, uh, because he could help you. So think about that, everybody, and until next time, stay curious, keep learning, and have a great day. Thank you.