Dignity by Design: How UnDosTres is Expanding Access to Credit Across Latin America

Speaker A: What we're building is not just convenience. We're building access. We're building the Rails to build future access. If those rails are solid today, a lot more benefit can happen to people later on. And now that's been the driving principle of everything that we've been doing over these years.

Speaker B: Welcome back to the ISSUA Academy. Today's episode is about one of the biggest shifts happening in global commerce right now. The transition from cash first economies to digital first experiences. Across Latin America, millions of consumers still rely on cash for everyday payments, but at the same time, we're seeing explosive growth in credit, embedded finance and digital commerce, creating entirely new pathways for access, inclusion and economic participation. At the center of the shift is infrastructure, the ability to approve credit in real time, issue cards instantly, and connect consumers to the digital economy in seconds, not weeks. Joining me today to unpack how this is happening on the ground, first off, we have Arpit Gupta, co founder of Undostress, one of Mexico's fastest growing digital payments and and credit platforms. Welcome, Arpit.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: And our very own Jeff Parker, CEO of Paymentology. Welcome back, Jeff.

Speaker C: Hello, Marisha.

Speaker B: We've had a great afternoon in gcc, so let's dive right in. Let's start with a quick icebreaker. I like to break the ice in the beginning. When people hear credit, they often think about debt. But in emerging markets, credit is increasingly becoming a new gateway into digital commerce, financial identity, and access to more services. So I want to ask you both, what does instant credit actually unlock beyond just purchasing power? And why is it becoming such a critical infrastructure layer in Latin America? Arpit, would you like to go first?

Speaker A: Uh, well, thank you. And that's a great icebreaker, I must say. Digital credit or instant credit is not just, you know, purchase enhancer. Right? It's not something that drives you to purchase impulsively, but it's increasingly becoming part of bringing people into the ecosystem, into digital financial wellness overall, including them into into the mass financial ecosystem that has been accessible to very few people. But today with instant credit, more and more people can have access to it. And it's built on use cases. So it's not driving purchase purchase assets, it's driving relevant purchase when needed and helping consumers do a better job financially.

Speaker B: That is so, so true because it's really helping everyday customers with everyday purchases. And that's what's so exciting about it. Jeff, what's your take?

Speaker C: First of all, I thought an icebreaker was meant to be like, what's your favorite color or something.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, we like to Keep you on your toes here.

Speaker C: Look, I think instant credit adds huge amounts of value. I think it provides cash flow stability. I think in Latam, um, often the issue isn't about having an income, but it's about timing of that income. And so access to credit can smooth that, which I think is super important. I think Arpit touched on it. But I think one of the key benefits of instant credit is it actually gives access to part of the formal economy that isn't always accessible through others. So things like subscription services, some digital commerce, the only way you can access and transact on there is with instant credit. And actually one of the things that I don't think we talk about enough is actually like dignity, you know, if you don't have access to things which other people have access to, I think it's a self fulfillment issue actually. And I think that's what financial inclusion is and that's what we're trying to do together I think is give people access to things which other people have and take for granted. And so I think it's a, there's a huge humanitarian part to this as well.

Speaker A: I'd actually just, you know, second on that very last point that, that he, that Jeff just made that it is about getting this sense of dignity for those who had not been part of some sort of an ecosystem which they see others are easily able to use and access. And it's a differentiator, it's a groundbreaker for a lot of people. It changes their perception of the world, it changes how they see themselves, it changes what they believe the future can hold for them and which is, which is a great thing.

Speaker B: And that's one of the things I love about financial inclusion. It really gives people a sense of really feeling included and being welcome and having access to things that actually everyone should have access to. And that's one of the reasons why I feel like we all actually got into payments. It's humanizing payments and really being customer centric. When you look at how you started Arpit, can you take us back to the beginning and tell us about undo stress and the problems you were trying to solve for.

Speaker A: You want us to walk back 10 years? Okay, 10 years ago the world was a different place. And when we started Undustrais, you know, it was born out of frustration of my co founders. Actually their day to day struggle with payments is what led us to actually start Undustre. And as we started building Undustras, we realized that, you know, what we are building is not just convenience. We're Building access. We're building the rails to build future access. If those rails are solid today, a lot more benefit can happen to people later on. And now that's been sort of the driving principle of everything that we've been doing over these years. But yeah, started off as just a simple pain point that man, I need to top up my phone and I have to go offline all the time. I need to pay an electricity bill and I need to go offline all the time. Why can't you just tap a button and get that done? That started the cycle and we came to realize that it's empowering and we continue to build on that.

Speaker B: I must say it's so incredible to talk to founders like you because it always starts with a pain point that you have personally felt and actually work to find a solution. There's so many people who just say, oh, there's a problem, there's nothing I can do to fix it. But you actually have taken up the mantle to say there's a problem, I'm going to do my part and try to fix it. That is absolutely incredible. So congratulations.

Speaker A: I'm humbled if you think so. So thank you.

Speaker C: I'm very jealous. I have zero ah, capability of starting a business. So actually you do enough of that. Hearing people actually do it from scratch is, it's pretty amazing.

Speaker B: It's always so inspirational. Makes you want to start your own

Speaker A: fintech or anything else.

Speaker B: Another question, when you first building industries, what were you seeing on the ground in many Mexico that told you that the market was ready even though cash was still so dominant?

Speaker A: Great question. Cash is still actually dominant. But that said, you know what we were, our personal frustration aside, right. Obviously we had to build a business out of it. And one of the things, a few things that we saw were great encouraging signs. One of them was, uh, Internet penetration was really high in Mexico at that time. Much higher than most of the emerging markets in the world. Mobile phone penetration was very healthy as well. If I remember correctly that time, um, about 70% smartphone penetration or something. So pretty high. Very decent. A very young dynamic population that seemed to us was hungry, wanted to improve their day to day life. So you know, those factors were kind of important in driving this and driving adoption. And then as we started building and as we started solving for problems, we realized that this is one set. But the real issue lies in infrastructure which just doesn't exist. To build a great consumer experience, you need to build amazing infrastructure that can support it in countries where it just doesn't exist. So we spent a lot of time building the backbone before we could actually scale. And then we started scaling much faster than we'd, uh, ever imagined. And um, it's been a hell of a ride after that.

Speaker C: And take us back 10 years. So when you first thought about it, how revolutionary was the idea? Like what was the, what was the market maturity? Were you, were you copycatting something else? Were you like first to market? How has it changed in 10 years?

Speaker A: In Mexico we were kind of first to market.

Speaker C: Okay, okay.

Speaker A: We were copycatting, honestly, successes in, in, in the east, uh, PayTM, iMax, PayTM. I was part of the early team building PayTM. So that was a huge inspiration and financial WeChat and so forth. So um, yeah, we were kind of copycatting those, but in that part of the world nobody existed simply because, you know, as I said, you can try and then you realize infra doesn't exist. Now the choice in front of you is, it's what do you do? You either say, okay, I'm going to build the infra or you're going to say, I'm going to wait till somebody else builds the infra and hook onto that infra. We said, okay, now when our infra doesn't exist, let's solve for that. When you solve for that, you start building so many other things.

Speaker B: And absolutely, I think two, uh, very important points there. Firstly, the infrastructure and building a solid foundation really sets you up for long term success. And I think that is critical for all of our viewers to understand, really invest time and energy in your infrastructure stack and your foundation layer. But also what you said about the east because we're actually seeing a lot of that come through. So we're seeing a lot of trends from APAC now being exactly what being asked for in lac. And it's across Mexico, it's across El Salvador, Honduras. And that for us is so interesting because you can see that the customer dynamics are very similar, but the challenges are also very similar. And so that it's good to know that that trajectory is, you know, evolving in Latin America. Perfect. Now let's move on. Because moving customers from cash to digital isn't just a technology challenge. Right? It really is a behavioral one. Arpit, what were the biggest barriers that you saw when encouraging users to trust digital payments and credit for everyday transactions like bills, transport or mobile top ups?

Speaker A: All the questions are going to be for me, nothing for him. Right?

Speaker B: You're the woman, you're the star of the show.

Speaker A: So early on it was definitely challenging, uh, the critical element in a country like Mexico or Latin America or even any emerging country is lack of trust. People haven't tried these things. They don't really know if it's going to work. They're afraid if it doesn't work, what's going to happen? Where will my money disappear? Who am I going to go and grab? They're used to going offline and there's a guy behind the till and you can grab him, right? But in an app, who do you go and grab? So those still remain big challenges to onboard more and more people into the digital financial economy. But so how we solve for that is, you know, again, I'm going back to the same thing we saw. Things are broken. Somebody either fix it or wait for somebody to fix it and then, uh, go along on the ride if possible. So we said, we'll fix it. We build the infra. If you look at us, we work with seven or eight different acquirers, balancing load across them because we saw that none of them have the capability to do a great job. So we're real time monitoring every transaction and then deciding at that instance which acquirer is best suited for that particular transaction. Right now, two seconds later for the same transaction, a different acquirer might be better suited as an example. So we built a lot of ways. It came down to experience, ensuring that whatever we are promising, we're delivering on that. One of the key things that we implemented early on was if you think we haven't done a good job, if your product or service hasn't been delivered to you, which is a mobile top up or a utility bill payment, instantly take your money back. It was expensive, but we were buying trust and we were building that trust. So investing a lot in technology, making sure experiences are really smooth, ensuring that if something breaks, there are fallbacks, there's resilience built into the system and you know, if failures are bigger, you know, people are trusting us with their money, so better just to give their money back to them and keep the trust alive.

Speaker C: Clearly Indors Trez has done an amazing job so far, but I think you said at the start that cash is still king.

Speaker A: Cash is still king.

Speaker C: So in your view, what's the main reason it's still king? Is it lack of trust of the digital stuff? Is it, is access to the services like we talked about earlier, Is it a technology limitation? What is it that if you had your magic wand, what is it that would actually change that kind of dynamic?

Speaker A: That's a very tough question to answer.

Speaker C: Uh, honestly I asked the difficult questions Marujah asks, the easy ones.

Speaker A: It's part of your job, right? Why I'm saying that is it's not just one or two things that move the needle. It's a combination of many factors. During today morning's presentations, one of your presenters was touching on that point, right? Like the benefits of cash and the pitfalls of cash. The benefit clearly is it's touch and feel, it's universal. Everybody will accept it without questioning in the mind of people. It's also low cost or actually costless. Uh, you know, one of the things that I keep on believing payments should be, should be frictionless, should be free and should be instant. Some places in the world are going in that direction and others are all, you know, more and more pushing towards that direction. So that's a great thing. But cash remains king for some of these factors. The other is just, you know, comfort. It gives you a sense of belonging. I have money, you know, and, and in emerging markets where people earn, um, day to day, income instability is huge. As you mentioned, instant credit helps smoothen some of that a lot, especially when it comes to spends. So in those kind of situations, people tend to just trust cash. It gives them a sense of security, it gives them a sense of belonging to something where they can't touch or feel money. It becomes slightly difficult to comprehend. And then there are many other factors, you know, local nuances and the fact that, uh, certain, you know, X likes something more and Y likes something else more.

Speaker B: So I mean, even when I think back to when we first started in Latin America, right, we said to customer, oh, you know, you can have a virtual card. And they were like, hell no. At the very least we need to have a physical card. Otherwise if a customer can't touch it, it doesn't exist. My money's in a black hole. And so that trust, you know, it really is, it takes a long time to build that trust. Which is why I think your model of making sure that the customer can get their money back quickly if it doesn't work really is you building that long term trust with your customers. That's obviously why you guys have survived 10 years and are still growing at such an amazing pace. So really incredible. One thing I want to look at now is one of the most powerful shifts that we're seeing globally is credit moving directly into the checkout experience. And this is kind of the evolution of embedding those payments. Undo stress enables consumers to access credit directly inside payment flows. From your perspective, Arpit, what changes when credit becomes embedded into daily commerce instead of living inside just traditional banking apps.

Speaker A: In one word, it becomes more useful. It's linked to your purchase behavior, it's linked to your cash needs. It's not that, yes, I have credit lying somewhere, but what to do with it. And it gives you that sense that okay, somebody has my back when I need it. Which is great for countries like Mexico, Latin America, wider Latin America, because a lot of people are uh, excluded from formal finance. And when something as simple as this happens, a uh, magical experience happens for them and they are then compelled to try it out more and more, more and more. And that helps bring them into the formal economy slowly and gradually. A uh, great use case that we have in undos race for example, is that you know, we've seen a lot of times people paying utility bills with debit cards and the card transaction fails for whatever reason. A large chunk of the reason is insufficient funds. And a lot of these people we know are probably earning daily wages or are just stretched for cash for that moment. And now not having electricity is going to make their life worse, it's not going to make it better. So you know, as a solution we activate instant credit at that point if it's failed and if we see the transaction failed because of insufficient funds, you get instant access to be able to pay that, we'll pay it for you, you keep on paying it back to us. That helps build trust as well in our case especially because you don't want to live without electricity or water or whatever, especially when you're stretched. So it's a great enabler is what I believe. And it's definitely game changing just to

Speaker C: build um, on that. If I understand correctly, you're effectively saying that by embedding into the flow you're able to contextualize the payment and so you're able to effectively credit score or risk score or take a credit decision on the transaction rather than the individual per se. And so if it's a daily household usage like buying food or electricity, et cetera, you may score and choose to have a different credit decision than whether someone's going to buying a luxury good or a uh, non essential, let's call it. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. Yes, pretty exciting in terms of where that can take you in terms of the future products.

Speaker B: That's extremely cool. Like when I think about it, you're doing so many different things with that. You're creating better trust, you're greater loyalty with customers. Because the reality is if I just think of it on a human level, if Undo stress is allowing me to get electricity for my family. A, I'm definitely going to pay it back. B, I'm going to stay with you for life because you have my back. That is so powerful. What an incredible use case. Love that.

Speaker C: That's a good use case as well. In terms of, I think you mentioned it right at the start up here. Uh, like there is a misconception in some economies and some in some walks of life that credit is bad. Yes. I think credit can be bad if it's used in the wrong way and it's used irresponsibly. But actually in that particular instance, credit is facilitating actually if they didn't have the electricity, you know, you know, if that's uh, an individual who makes a living at home by doing something, maybe it's restricting them from actually generating wealth and moving the economy forward. Yeah. And so actually credit is a big enabler in terms of GDP growth and economy. So I'd say.

Speaker B: And that's exactly how we should be positioning it.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean I think it has to be done responsibly as well. I mean there's always going to be bad use cases and bad actors, but I think it's like anything in life, it can be used badly or.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm actually, you know, of the school of thought. I uh, used to be credit is bad. Growing up in India, that's what was ingrained into me. Credit is bad. But you know, moving into financial services, really understanding how you can impact people's life with credit done responsibly. I am now a firm believer that credit is a great enabler when done well.

Speaker B: And also just thinking about it, you're also creating a credit history for these customers to then build greater credit profiles and they have been more access being more included in financial ecosystems. It really is this fantastic flywheel that you're creating.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: I'm so, I'm so excited about this use case. But Arpit, uh, like you mentioned, Jeff, let's bring you into the conversation. Jeff, what does the rise of platforms like undo stress tell you about about how credit infrastructure is evolving in emerging markets, particularly when it comes to speed, scalability and of course localization.

Speaker C: I mean it applies to credit I think, but I think it applies to many other platforms as well. I think the rise of fintechs and platforms generally is super positive. I think it's showing that we can go beyond, I guess, niche markets and experimentation. It's actually proving that there is real world usage and that traditional services by the banks are not the only solution. And I think it's showing that we can get real volume, we can get real customers, we can serve real problems. And I think that's only going to be beneficial for fintech's businesses but ultimately in terms of customers, in terms of problems uh, that we can solve. And I think specific to credit, I think you've almost just answered it for us in terms of, I think what it does is it starts to enable us to bring individuals or businesses into a more formal economy that they wouldn't have been able to access before. And we can start to build up credit ratings and credit scores and start to give them access to different products and services they wouldn't have had before. And I think a traditional bank environment, at least in my opinion, would never have got there in this time period. And so if we didn't have fintechs like industries we would still have these millions of people around the world that just don't have access, which is a failing on all of us.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: And I'd just like to add one more thing here. You know traditional finance looks backwards and then decides yes, modern finance is trying to look forward and then decide. And I think that's a huge difference in how both worlds approach the same problem. Uh, and it creates a completely different paradigm then I mean there's other examples

Speaker C: of real time like uh, insurance. Yeah. If you crash your car on the way to work and you need to, or uh, you get a flat tire or something, you need to change it and don't have, you don't have enough money to buy a new tire. If you're able to instantly get instant access to replace that tire so you can go to work and earn the money. Like it's, there's a huge flywheels to you so there's so many use cases and it's so relevant. I think sometimes I uh, live in the UK and you take for granted so many, so many things but you know this concept of actual stabilizing or trying to flatten out income and cash flow stability actually is, is, I think it's one of the biggest problems that we have around the world.

Speaker A: Everywhere in the world.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know when you think about it, these different or modern issuing platforms or services weren't available five or 10 years ago. And what companies like UNO Stress are doing right now to evolve not just Mexico, but it's making the whole region think twice about what is possible, what is the art of the possible, what can you, what can they do to also create better Inclusion across the region. And that's what's so exciting. But the other thing that I also find very exciting is the fact that it's also making banks think twice because ultimately banks were the ones excluding these customers in the first place. Right. They couldn't get credit, they couldn't even get bank accounts. Right. They could get ATM cards at the very least. So it's really helping to change the industry across the board from banking. And I think we're going to see a lot more traditional banks come into play and say, look, I want to do more of this virtual credit, instant payments, how do I do these things? And they'll be looking to the two of you to advise them on those. So that's quite interesting.

Speaker A: Awesome. Yeah, I have a consulting company that can do that.

Speaker B: You can plug that in the comments. Now let's look at what's really powerful about the story. And so far the entire all of your use cases are so powerful. But this is a story that digital credit isn't just driving transactions, it's expanding participation in the economy. Arpit, from what you've seen on the ground, has digital credit changed everyday usage behavior? So how customers are spending for transport, food, electricity?

Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. Although I do think early on a lot of instant credit and digital credit availability sort of led to impulse purchases first. But as consumer adoption has grown on these use, um, cases have changed as well. And one of the biggest is just cash flow smoothening is as Jeff has mentioned a few times, I know a lot of people, I know a lot of people who have really benefited from having access to something like this. As a good case in point, you know, particular example, there's a lady who helps us in our house in Mexico. Her son had an accident and she did not have enough money to pay for the additional expenses that were coming along with it. She had Social Security, but Social Security covers. But then you have a lot more things happening. You know, you need to go three times a day here, there, et cetera. One way for her was to tell me, hey, can you give me some money and can I use some, you know, give me an advance and I'll repay it back to you. The other was start using a credit card. Yeah. And that was the first time she actually started using a credit card. And it came to her, you know, it was incredible for her because it all of a sudden helped her come out of these day to day cash flow pressures and she did not really have to. Coming back to the point of dignity, she did not have to ask me, you know it was a dignified manner for her to continue with those expenses. So that's a great, great way in how you know, all of these things are changing consumption, they're changing how people use and as it penetrates they're going to be more and more different kind of use cases that will keep on coming up.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean what an incredible story but also what an incredible way for her to have access instantly and say actually I need the funds. This is how you can get it right now and it will solve all of your problems. And like you said, going back to dignity, that is, you know, it's so, so important to everyday consumers. Jeff, now this shift doesn't happen in isolation, let's be fair. And partnerships are an important part of enabling responsible digital credit ecosystems. How do you see partnerships evolving or helping build this industry?

Speaker C: Uh, I think we, we had an event earlier on today and I think we talked a bit about partnerships. I think one of the great things about fintechs is the fact that I think we've been, the industry has been very focused on solving niche customer problems and allows you to go really focused and really deep and be very specialized at uh, uh, a, uh, particular thing. What that does mean though is that you don't have all the kind of surrounding ecosystem to actually create products and services. And so I think to be successful in fintech you need to go deep but you also need to partner because you know payments is complex and you know payments requires the payment itself, it might require the onboarding, it might require of regulation, it require some like fraud and transaction monitoring etc. If you try and do all of that yourself as a fintech it, it's almost impossible. And so I think the way that Fintechs have managed to compete and in many instances started to beat the traditional players is because they partnered with, with best of breed and I think the industry is a very in the main a collaborative industry in IT and it looks to focus on what it does best and then pull in best. In Britain I think the Paintology Industrial Partnership is a, is a good example of that. Industrious has a, you know, a great credit product, it has regulatory licensing, etc. And um, we're very proud to be able to support them on the issuing side. And I think I'm sure industrials uses a number of other partners to kind of complete its, its proposition enables them to get to market quickly. Hopefully it enables it to stay at the leading edge of what's happening because all of its partners are focusing on, on those Specific areas. And so I think partnerships will always be in this industry, critical and essential if you want to stay ahead.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Arpad, anything to add on that?

Speaker A: I think they're critical for success. Uh, you can't excel at everything. You pick your battles, you choose those, you go for those, and there are other people doing the same. So you join together and you form an army, and then you're able to fight a bigger, larger war. So you move from battles to wars by forming an army, by partnering with as many people as you can.

Speaker B: Oh, that's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal that. I'm just telling you now because you're so, you're so right. It really is building an army to tackle, you know, an industry that is very, very challenging and very difficult. If you look at regulatory hurdles, risk compliance, fraud, like all of these things, you cannot solve by yourself. And so it definitely is building an army to create a better customer experience. And in your case, it's definitely working out because you have all of these amazing use cases that you've been able to enable.

Speaker C: So I think the thing, and I think we have touched on it, we should reiterate it, is the successful ones are the ones that have identified a customer problem and then they've gone to solve that. Ah, they're not just building a product for a product's sake. It's they see real issues, real world problems, and then they build a solution around it.

Speaker B: Yeah, and we see that time and time again. You know, some, you know, even in the cases of digital banks, it's all about, oh, how do we get reach profitability? It's not always about profitability. If you are solving for something that, that is a problem to you, odds are you're going to have 10 million other customers who have, are facing the same problems. And that's what makes a business actually ultimately successful.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we're all, you know, we're a business here. We're not for, uh, not for profit. So we have, we have to make profit at some point. But the best way to make profit is to solve real problems. And if you solve problems, typically customers will then come and they'll continue to use your product and, you know, profitable. It's a, it's a flywheel.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, Perfect. Let's now talk about momentum. Latin America is now one of the fastest growing regions globally for digital payments and embedded credit. Arpit looking ahead, what does success look like for undo stress over the next year? Is it about products, deeper credit capabilities, geographic expansion, or changing how everyday commerce works.

Speaker A: Wow, that's a really tough one. It's a mix of some of these, right? I mean, um, we operate in multiple areas. We have a B2C business, we have a B2B business. Each one of them is very specific in what it does and how it operates. So you know, for certain things it's definitely product expansion. Especially right now on our B2B side where we see huge opportunity to continue working together with Paymentology actually a lot to roll out new experiences, new products for our B2B customers, for them to be able to issue cards for any kind of a use case at an instance, be able to move money across the world for their users without any friction, without any problems and so forth. And on the other side, you know, geographic expansion is something that comes as part of that if you want to continue growing as a, as a company. It's something that we've increasingly been looking at. So you know, it's, it's a mixed bag. But yeah, this, this particular year I think it's going to be a heavy focus on product, enabling others to really be able to do whatever they want to do and drive more access.

Speaker B: Brilliant. It's all about the customer experience and those products really enable new customer experiences, new use cases and just a better way of doing things right. So I'm so glad that you focus and that we're a part of it now. When we look at the bigger picture and the bigger infrastructure view across the region, what technologies or platform capabilities do you believe will define the next phase of digital credit and commerce? Not just across Mexico, but the region. Arpit, uh, I'll start with you first.

Speaker A: So I think across the world the biggest think is going to be with time, more transaction led and faster decision making. Real time decision making. You know, I'd said that banks look backwards and modern finance is trying to look forwards, but still we rely on some bit of history and we are not making absolute instant real time decisions based on what's happening at that very particular moment. But given the treasure trove of data that exists in this world, there is a huge possibility. And now with Intelli artificial intelligence coming as a layer on top of you, being able to make more and more sense of that data, I think it's a natural way to go that, you know, everything is personalized to me, everything is done when I want it, how I want it, as I want it. And uh, everything is fast, free and frictionless.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Especially in payments.

Speaker C: Jeff, I don't think I've got anything to add it's contextual credit done in real time that's personal to the individual and it's embedded in the workflow. I mean, I think it's. If we achieve that, I think we'll solve some problems.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And as a consumer waiting for you, but it's absolutely, you know, when you look at the customer experience, it's all about understanding your customers needs before they even do. Right. And so frictionless, instant, absolutely critical to ensuring that the customer experience is as smooth as possible. So, you know, when we look at it, that's what everyone should be focusing on. Now I want to look at the final question. The one thing that must change, and this is always a controversial one. So we've covered behavior, we've covered infrastructure, scale and inclusion. So let's, uh, end on the big question, finish the sentence instinctively, if I'll give you a second to think about it. If digital credit is going to genuinely expand access, not just transactions, the one thing builders must focus on is you can choose who goes first.

Speaker C: I'm going to follow on with our topic of, I guess, dignity and humanity. I think that if we want credit to get through the mainstream everywhere, we need to build products that suit us when we're in our worst moments as well as in our best moments. And I think if we can do that and we can find a product that helps an individual at all points in their need, then I think we can get rid of this taboo, that credit is bad. And, um, we can do it responsibly and supportive. Brilliant.

Speaker A: It was supposed to be one word, but that's fine.

Speaker B: Well, actually that is true. We'll let you have it because it was such a good one.

Speaker A: So I just say, you know, solve a real problem because you're talking about builders. Solve a real problem. And that kind of for me completes the entire sentence. Three words.

Speaker B: But yeah, well done. Arfat. You win on the word. Yeah, yeah, okay, but, but it's so true, right? Solve a problem. And like you said, Jeff, if you solve a problem, all the rest will come because it's meeting customers needs. So that's absolutely spot on. And that's all for today. A, uh, huge thanks to Arpik Gupta, uh, from Undo Stress and Jeff Parker from Paymentology for joining us and for showing how credit is becoming one of the most powerful drivers of digital commerce across Latin America. If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to subscribe to the Issuo Academy wherever you get your podcasts. Catch you next time on the Issuo Academy. That wraps up today's episode of the Issuo Academy Paymentology's podcast to innovate, scale and provide impact. I hope you're leaving with fresh insights and actionable strategies to help you revolutionize your card programs and drive true impact in the world. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, please leave a review to help us reach more pioneers like you. Also, be sure to subscribe and follow us for more inspiring episodes and behind the scenes content from Pavementology. Until next time, I'm Merush and Aidu. Keep innovating, keep scaling, and keep striving to make an impact.