Small Steps, Big Shifts: Caroline Chan on the Power of Incremental Innovation

Speaker A: Welcome to the Innovators of Things podcast, a profile series about the builders and leaders of connected devices powered by hologram. On, uh, today's episode, we're joined by Intel's Carolyn Chan to explore how small ideas can lead to massive shifts in wireless, edge and AI. And now to our host, Gillian Caplan.

Speaker B: My name is Jillian Caplan and welcome to Innovators of Things. I am here with Caroline Chan. Caroline, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Of course. Super excited to have you here. I've known you a, uh, good amount of time now and I like I said, I was nervous to ask you to come because you're one of my favorite innovators. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you grew within the industry to become an innovator in the space?

Speaker C: First of all, thank you for having me here. So I have been in the industry for a long time. Good thing that you can't see. You can't see on age. But I came from a family of engineers. Both my parents were engineers. In fact, my mom was probably among the first or second generation of Chinese women. We grew up in mainland China to become a professor of electrical engineering. So it was pretty amazing for her to achieve that. So there's never any doubt in my mind that I was going to follow the footsteps really love math growing up, physics, everything, chemistry, science. But I also like words and also like to read books. As growing up I just have that curiosity that's always bubbling in me if I meet someone. If you are so unfortunate sitting next to on airplane, just a good idea, ask about what you're reading. I'm that person that you don't like to be sitting next to. But I do take a cue if you put on AirPods I won't bother you through that I actually wound up meeting a lot of people that's really interesting and help shape my view. So I came to United States age 18 and a half and enrolled in University of Texas in Austin electrical engineering. And uh, ever since then I've been in the field. So I have spent most my working life in telecommunications side especially wireless. I witness uh, various wireless generation, generational wireless technology, the ecosystem, how they mature from a very purpose built platform, software and offering.

Speaker B: Do you remember one G? Do you remember G?

Speaker C: I started with two G. So gsm, um, gsm, um. I think GSM is considered one, two G right. The TDMA is one G. I started two, two and a half, three three and a half. But the. Set that aside. Julian. I thought the Most important interesting thing is how that technology evolved from um, doing one thing only, which is to allow you to make a phone call and then to set up um, and then allowing you to set up a SMS and then data session and then you browse the Internet, then you do Uber, then you buy Amazon, then you watch streaming tv. Now it's really about enabling robots, enabling things. And gosh, in the future I don't even know what what that uh, evolved to. It's just like sometimes when you think of it, because you mentioned the innovators of things, the innovations you have this people look at elo want to go to space. But many times it's actually small steps that you take. Mhm, monthly step, quarterly step, yearly step to take you to where you are. I want to say, unless you are a founder of Qualcomm, Irvin Jacobs. With that kind of vision, most of us, majority of us is simply taking what we have today and saying could we push envelope, do a little bit more? When you get there you go, can I push envelope do a little bit more. I still remember when you and I first started looking at this Mac we used to call a mobile edge compute. Then we multi access computer. I always thought about uh, if we have the TV agenda is a compute next to it. What can we do with that? What can we do with this? It's just I remember the first draft we made, it was so simple. And now it's a thing. It's this thing that enable AI to penetrate. But we didn't have that. Is it great if you have that vision? But not everybody is Elon Musk, not everybody's Einstein. Majority of us, we can't do it. Just real lives and just say oh, I have this. Gradually you become a momentum. Remember we started as an NMV network function virtualization. People didn't know where to go is to get a lower price. Vray get a lower price. But it is now becoming a ecosystem building, uh, allowing a much more flexible compute power in order to accelerate AI adoption as well as letting AI do more things. Because now you have this combo of fast reliable connectivity with uh, unlimited, seemingly unlimited compute power and storage. You know what that said really become in five years from now, nobody knows. But we know we can take this and do a POC for it, do a demo for it like what you guys just did in Vegas Delta World to show the next step and then someone to build on the next step. Someone was just probably still in high school, but the graduate college joined us. It would take this even Further. So I'm excited. I'm um, really excited.

Speaker B: Yeah. So talking about innovation, people often think they need, oh, this is what I'm building for five years from now. But maybe to your point, innovation is like these small incremental steps where you're building the foundation for what's going to come. Right. Like even if you don't exactly know what that thing is, innovation doesn't have to start with a five year plan. It can start with a two month plan or a six month plan. Right. Is that where your thoughts are on that?

Speaker C: That's exactly. So that might be interesting to share my journey at my current employer, who happened to be Intel. I joined intel after staying at wireless industry but in a system lab, meaning that we're actually OEMs and building entire wireless system that go sell different operators. So when I joined intel it was an idea that we started a new business to run a virtual and open network. I was especially doing radio technology because that was my background doing wireless. I didn't know where that was going to go. I just know that for the many, for all the life that I've been working in, wireless has always been built on asic. Could this be done somewhere? And another way, could we just use a Dell computer and run a network on it? So there was 15 years ago one thought 15, uh, years ago about that. So we started very small. We didn't really have a budget. We just literally. My boss Ross Schooler told me that if I have leftover budget but whoever did not spend this quarter, you um,

Speaker B: get, you get the scraps.

Speaker C: It literally was scrap was me was one of our technology lead. And then we have a marketing person. There's three of us, we run around, we go to everybody. I think of Sweden. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Knock everybody's door. What do you think of this? And then we were literally making up slides on the fly because all we know is that we know what the CPU roadmap is. We know what the Ethernet connectivity connection roadmap is. We know how much storage you need. We just have it chipping away at it. Chipping away at it. Now Vran cloud Ran open ran is a major movement in the industry. Especially when you think about what Everybody talk about 6G. Uh, it's going to be based on that. But when we started really was scrapped. Sometimes $100,000, sometimes half a million. You never know how many people didn't spend that money. Started very small. It's almost like a startup within a company. But you can people do that. You see a lot of people talk about, oh, I started hpe, uh, HP in a garage, famously. And, uh, Michael Dell was in Austin and started building computer in his dorm room. I don't know whether he knew he was gonna be like Delta today, but it started because of a passion, because of curiosity. For me, it's a lot of curiosity. It's what can you do with that? Somebody's paying me to do this. I can't believe it. Oh, my God. The person who also care about it as much as you do. Let's say people always say, how long you've been doing this? I said, I don't know how long intel will allow me to do it. And then you win one poc. I still remember the first one deal that we won was actually in China. It was on top of, uh, a building. So they said, okay, cover this building now cover a campus. We were on top of a rooftop in Shanghai and surveying. And then you got. Then we have Rakuten. Then we have. Now it's at and T. Verizon, Vodafone. When I started, I had no idea.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, yeah, I love that, like, you have a vision, what you want, but you have to build. You can't just. You have to have a pathway to get there. And that's where the innovation is incredibly important.

Speaker C: And.

Speaker B: And you have to be able to pivot. Right. So I hear from a lot of my guests, but they were always curious, right? I hear from a lot of people. I love to take apart computers. I love to build things. I love to. I love to read books. Like you said, I love to learn. And I think that's a really big key to innovation. I also think that listening is really important. The best innovators in the world know that they're probably not the smartest people in the room. And they start with an idea, but they depend on others in order to really build the idea. Even better. And I know that you sit on a lot of different advisory boards and help a lot of different companies. I would love to learn about, like, where. How you help these companies innovate and where you think these companies are doing the right thing in terms of their own innovation as they build their roadmaps out.

Speaker C: Yeah, one thing I enjoy doing is to share, not just sometimes it sounds obnoxious. Oh, I'm sharing my knowledge and experience. Most of the times, actually, I get as, uh, much back as I share because people do tend to. When you say something, people do tend to give you feedback, whether they Intend to or not and help me shape a idea. I recently went to a advisory board of a partner slash customer like we sell through them. And this is probably one of the best advisory people I've been to. It's one of the ones that people came in with not that much PowerPoint. Sometimes PowerPoint kills discussion.

Speaker B: Yeah yeah.

Speaker C: Learn more ideas um on document. They just went through a major sell off of one of the assets and refocusing on a different part of their business. Going through business model transformation which is very challenging we think about for the sales team. So the engineers probably shielded from that but everybody else on the sales side it's a major transformation that adjusted. So they came in very raw and they said this is what we got present to our board. Not uh, their board and I would like your opinion. And they put together, they hand selected. That's what I was told. People in their partners and their direct sell to customers. Both sell with and sell to customers. Even what was even to the suppliers believe it or not and came in and they picked the people they know. They'll be very brutally honest with them. And they got it. They got the brutal feedback. Whether they like it or not. I could see from their face some of them, they were really you know taken aback. Okay we need to rethink about it. But like I told them, I told the CMO M I said this is so intense. I asked for a break so I can pop a addie. I have my head with help. Because when someone presented this weight of material yeah potentially I could tell if they do well, they'll be 10x if you do poorly. This company may or may not be around five years from now. Even probably two, three years from now given the pace of change. You feel that weight on your shoulder. I still wasn't a big board and can see everyone all have that. In fact two of them got into an argument. Two of them. The advisors disagree with each other. They had to be cooled off. It shows you how passionate people are when you presented this weighty ideas that you're considering and giving a really open minded conversation. Not this one. I've decided please bless it. Yes, any of those. It's great, it's fun. You usually go to nice play. They treat you really well. You're like okay great, thank you very much. But you came back and I just basically stamped it. And also this one was like a really good dialogue. I want more of that. In fact I'm coming back. I'm um regulating the conversation. That was entirely thirsty in my head. I'm like, I could use some of that learning myself for my next project. I probably do something like that customer. And by the way, not all of us working, uh, with animals rooms. Think of two of their partners are direct competitors of each other. And they sitting in the room and we weren't gonna repeat who said what, but you could just tell they're very different approach to this company's proposal how to change their business model. They came at it both of the supply. They came at a very different angle. So now it's up to the management to decide which path to take. But I think, gosh, can you imagine? This is like you pay somebody a lot of money and to be PwC Accenture to give you that kind of Deloitte, give me that kind of consultant. I'm McKinsey. And you got it. You got it in one day. Because you said the environment, obviously.

Speaker B: Um, and direct from the source, right?

Speaker C: Direct from the source.

Speaker B: It's not like going through a. Oh, this is.

Speaker C: Yeah, but you have to set up really well to say, um, I'm listening and I'm sharing and I'm vulnerable. Certain degree vulnerability is needed. Time to do things or change your. Change yourself. It's not even just atomic business, but sometimes even relate to your own personal life. I wanted to be a better person. And you have to be somewhat vulnerable.

Speaker B: Yeah. You have to be willing to take the feedback, not just hear it, but actually listen. Right. Be taking it in, not just saying, oh, yeah, yeah, and then go doing what you want. And you, uh, Caroline, are an amazing listener. You're also an amazing talker, which you talked about in the beginning. So don't get stuck next to her on an airplane unless you want to have a conversation. But you're an amazing listener. And I know that you are a big executive and a leader. And because you're an innovator in your own right, how do you really encourage others to innovate too? Like, how do you make sure other voices are heard the same way your voice was heard at this advisory board meeting? So that everyone innovates, not just yourself.

Speaker C: Hopefully that. June, you agree that I don't. I try very hard not to come across that I'm, um, better than you. My team, we are all equal. And when you come across as that, uh, you know it all well, don't give you back. Don't give you the feedback because you make up your mind. This solution is already cooked. And I tried. I wanted to listen to everybody and I. You come in with that, uh, uh, Two years and one mouth and make that mouth smaller. And you definitely wanted to hear and be humble and hear what people have to say. It's really important to know the idea, the feedback that you get. Sometimes you tend to dismiss proper ideas. Then you think about it like, well, the things that you don't think will ever happen. It could happen. The what if scenario that somebody brought to your conversation is actually very important.

Speaker A: M.

Speaker C: These days with A.I. uh, with connectivity. And don't forget, we just came out of pandemic not too many years ago, and we have to be ready for the what ifs and you be ready for this free disruption. So having a minority voice and point of view in any kind of a conversation is important. If you hear anybody say yes at the first 10 minutes, you probably did not have the right people in the room. Yeah.

Speaker B: Or you're not to your point. You're not really being open and you're presenting things in a.

Speaker C: This is the exact. The right question.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I would totally agree, by the way. I think that's one of your. You have many superpowers. I love chatting with you as. But I think that's one of your superpowers is that you come off very unassuming. The first time I met you, I will tell this story, we were in like a suite, and you were sitting at a computer, and you had your computer and your pad of paper, and we had never met before, maybe over email. And you said, hey, you come here. And I'm like, okay. And I hustled over there and you're

Speaker C: like, talk to me about which of

Speaker B: these social events is the most fun to go to. Cause you're at an event and it just came off like, very fun and engaging and unassuming and someone that I could go have a conversation with. And I had later learned that you were an executive. And it just. It wasn't a normal conversation to me. It wasn't like you were talking at me. You were asking my opinion. And no, it wasn't on innovation or technology, but you actually cared what someone had to say. And I think that's very unique and very important as you innovate in your career. So I think that's just. That's amazing.

Speaker C: It's just say, I want to be your confidant, your friend, your colleague. And, um, the relationship doesn't end by business engagement. That's why you and I, beyond what we do in our daily life, became friends. And, uh, we can text each other. We asked for advice and we had the last get together before the world shut down. Remember in Bosnia? Because I flopped. It was like, oh, we're just going to have a mobile congress in Buffalo. No, we're going to have in Boston. We're just going to do it. We invite our uh, closest friends and. Yeah, yeah, no, it's last event I think. And then we sit at home for two years.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. But uh, I just, I think that the skill and I don't know if you do it on purpose. Maybe you can, I don't know, maybe you don't. Maybe it's just who you are. But the skill you have to connect with people and make them feel like their opinion, even if it's about social events and parties is worthy and I was brand new at that point is incredibly important. And I hope that you pass that skill down to your team and you teach them how important it is to your point to connect with people.

Speaker C: I think that's to me it's a life goal. I wanted to know you, uh, I wanted to know what you do, what make you tick. And not everybody is care about that but the people that do became lifelong friends and partners and colleagues and we kept, keep in touch. We keep in touch with you. I keep in touch with some of the people that you and I ran around in the past and I still get texts from them like how are you doing? Have a new phone. To me that is a Life.

Speaker B: Well, listen 100% and as you think about your I will say long career but I won't age you. Your long career, successful career. Is there like something that you seen that you've innovated on that has been your favorite? Do you have a favorite thing that you've grown in your career?

Speaker C: Oh, definitely. It's the journey to do, to virtualize the network. We did. Uh, I was parked in a small part in especially in Vran cloudran openran and I see that now. I know we started this whole journey together on ah, Mac. I still remember we were in. Where was. I was in Germany. That was Munich. We signed the first SC stamped Mac stamped 1.0 we still call that mobile edge computer at the time. Now Mac become this whole edge computer Momentum combined with 5G and soon to be 5G and a half or 6G really is a path to allow AI to transform and penetrate every aspect of our work and lives. I think the potential, the upside is huge, probably way beyond my working life. But I'm very proud that that work that we started 15 years ago when I got hired by my current Employer and say let's look at is another way to deliver wireless network by using a Dell computer not having to build a complete basic just for that. What can is this is a path to it very small not grow to this momentum when you have the open ran vram, the cloud ram momentum plus edge compute. So now you're seeing communication and compute combined together. When cut that together with the power of AI, I can't even imagine what would be like in five years from now. But I think the next generation of engineers going to come in and grab this and really push it and we don't even know what would be called at the time. I actually just right before this I was reading my daily news digest. There was a survey coming out which is done last week and said that 70% of the Genesis wanted to slow down AI. I think it's the fact that there's a lot of uncertainty. People are concerned of what can breathe. It's back to what we. What you and I talked about at the beginning is any kind of innovation. We need to listen. We bring people on board, we take steps. That's achievable, that's measurable. It has uh, a KPI associated with every step. So instead of. Because you could see that people on the outside get concerned and scared because we probably have not shown them, um, the measurable benefits to everyday lives. We need to do that so that we don't lose 70% of the population. Yeah, I think so. I had to read it carefully. But on the surface it looks like the Genesis say slow it down because we don't know where this is going to go. Uh, back to what we said. It's instead of a big ban, we can do it step by step and if we get to that point, but we don't lose half the people that we want to bring along.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think that's an important point about innovation too is that you have to make sure you're not like over indexing or to your point, scaring people with it like small steps. And not everyone understands understands technology the way that you do. Right. So even just explaining it in terms of output instead of speeds and feeds is incredibly important. Like how is this going to help you? Right. And not hurt you essentially. So I love that this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for joining me and sharing your philosophy about innovation and leadership and I can't wait to see what you do next.

Speaker C: Thank you. Julia And I wanted to see this podcast because I think you're doing a really good thing to bring to merge the world of technology innovation with everyday lives. And I would like to see you do more of these.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Huge thanks to Carolyn Chan for joining us today. Make sure to give her a follow on LinkedIn to keep up with all the exciting work that she and her team are doing. Intel. You can learn more about the Innovators of Things podcast@innovatorsofthings.com and please subscribe to the podcast on your platform of choice. Until next time.