Let's Sound Off With Bill Brown: Don't Suck at Recruiting

Speaker A: I cashed out my entire 401k thinking someone stole my identity.

Speaker B: A fake email cost me my dream home.

Speaker A: After I sent my personal information to

Speaker B: a scammer, my AI agent wired thousands to an account I'd never seen.

Speaker C: When billions of people feel unsafe, that's no longer a security problem. It's an economic one. At Jenn, we're building the trust layer for a more fearless planet with products and technologies from our global brands, Norton, Lifelock, Avast and Money Lion. See it in action@gendigital.com thank you for

Speaker A: joining me for this episode of HR Sound Off. I hope that you found it useful. You can find this on all other episodes of HR Soundoff on all major podcast platforms. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, you name it, we're there. Remember, HR Soundoff is created by HR professionals for HR professionals. If you would like to share your story, then reach out to us and let us know. Make sure to hit the notification bell and subscribe to HR Soundoff on YouTube as well as Podbean. And we'll see you again when we next Sound Off. Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the HR Sound, uh, Off podcast show. My name is Julie Turney and I am your host. Remember, the HR Sound off podcast show is brought to you by an HR professional for hr. Ah, professionals magnifying HR voices. And today I am magnifying the voice of, uh, Bill Brown. Bill, how are you doing?

Speaker B: I am so good, Julie. It's so great to see you. Thanks for asking me to be on your podcast. Uh, it's been a couple months since we were, uh, together in person, so it's wonderful to virtually see you.

Speaker A: It's true. It's always good to meet people that I have on the show in person. And we met at Transform. We actually did a panel together at Transform in Vegas this year, which was amazing. And I'm so glad that we, we got to have that conversation and we could share a little bit about that with the audience a little later. But for now, let's start by telling the audience about you. Who is Bill Brown? What is your HR origin story? How did you get into hr? And what's keeping you here? What are you doing these days?

Speaker B: Sure. Thanks. So, uh, who is Bill Brown? Uh, what's my, uh, origin story? Well, I very much an HR nerd. Uh, HR is exactly the job that I wanted to do when I figured out what I wanted to do when I grew up. I started in, uh, retail 30, 30 years ago or so, and I started talking to the director of HR who said, hey Bill, we want to talk to you about succession planning. And I was a young guy and didn't really know what that meant. New to the work world. And I said, why would you care about wanting to also what is succession planning? She, she explained to me, I said, why would you want to do that for me? And she said, well, you do really well. We want to, we have a vision for you, for your career with us. And so I said, wow, how can I do that? And so she sort of took me under her wing and showed me the way, uh, this is the way. And from there I did everything I could possibly do to learn more, immerse myself in the world of HR and uh, HR assistant, uh, all the way up to C, Chief People Officer in the course of my, in my lifetime. So love it. Um, why do I do it? I do it because I really enjoy the people side of it and helping um, leaders, ah, see the value in who we are as people. Because at the end of the day, previously I was an employee just like everyone else, but I have been an employee so I care about what we do to make sure that uh, we have a voice. And ah, I'm grateful that I have a bit of influence and it can help leaders see how to make things better for their employee population.

Speaker A: Mhm. It's an amazing story. You describe yourself as an HR nerd. People love hr. But to say that you're a nerd about it means you really love the intricacies of it and discovering different parts of it all the time. That's what nerding out on HR kind of means to me. But I'm so happy to hear that it was something that you felt that it was that you wanted to do. Because you know, sometimes when you hear HR stories, a lot of people say, oh, I fell into hr. But you were actually quite intentional about developing and growing your HR career, which is interesting.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think it's, it is because there's a direct impact on people. And you know, I, if you know me well and you get to know me a little bit and transform, uh, I can currently love everyone while also sometimes being frustrated by processes and things that people do. But when you're in this space, uh, and you choose to be in a space, you do it because you are impacting individuals and their lives. There's so many things that we do behind the scenes that people don't even understand that we do. And I understand there's sort of a critical mass of, you know, HRS out, uh, to get you or HRS the cop or HRS on the side of the employer. Again, like I mentioned, I was an employee and you know, I have been an employee and I care a lot about what happens to people in the organization because if there's a benefit or if there's a negative impact, it would also affect me. So why would I do anything that's not going to support me selfishly? But I understand the belief that HR has all these sometimes bad intentions and at the end of the day, uh, and I preach this all the time, I have zero power in organizations. As an HR person. You don't have power. The chief people officer doesn't have power. Uh, they have influence if they do their job well. And the CEO and all the CEO, those guys make the decisions. We just help them with policy, practice law, and we guard them so they can do what's best for the organization. Currently, we're also trying to see how we're doing what's best for the employee too. Uh, I do love this role because I have a direct impact on people's work lives. I have, uh, influence on the company culture and the strategy and then, uh, helping see successful business outcomes and driving organizational change. And that's what I love to do and that's why I'm intentional about it and that's why I continue to do this all these years later.

Speaker A: Wonderful. I love this story. Tell us what advice you have for HR professionals who are trying to navigate their HR career right now. They want to become that chief people officer, so they're on their journey. What are some of the recommendations that you would make as, uh, someone is navigating their journey to chief people Officer?

Speaker B: Well, I think first of all, you need to really be someone who can communicate effectively and get to understand the business, not just the HR side. One of my mentors one time said, bill, you're a really good HR person who has lots to learn about business. And so you need to understand P and L, you need to understand lines of business. You need to understand all the things that true business leaders get. So when you're at the table with them, you actually can think strategically about, um, what their next step is and give advice on why you think this is a good decision. Also make sure that you stay updated on all things, uh, employment law related for your state, for your city, for your federally. Make sure that you're building relationships with people across all levels of the business, all lines of business, and really be ethical in every decision that you make. Uh, people may not like decisions that you're making, but if you're ethical and you're fair and consistent, they say, I don't like what Bill or Julie or whoever did, but I understand they're doing it from, they're coming from a good place. Uh, and if you do that and focus on continually learning and being adaptable and flexible and not just black and white, I think that that's going to be something that catapults you to the next level as a nature.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. So we want to make sure that we're business savvy because a lot of times we are not business savvy. But we have to understand the business. We need to understand those P. Ls. So having a good relationship with finance to help us understand how the money is moving through the business and then we need to have good relationships across the business so we understand how each department works and how the people are placed and what are the requirements for that. And then we also need to be able to stand by the decisions that we make. We're making good decisions that are fair for the people that we're serving, then we need to be able to stand by those decisions and be okay with not having the popular opinion. Did I summarize that right? Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, I love how you wrapped it up so neatly. I tend to talk too much sometimes, but not at all. Absolutely. Uh, you know, we could probably talk for hours and hours and hours about the perception of who we are as HR in the day. Again, I love what I do and I love being able to influence. Uh, but you have to be able to give business leaders justification for decisions that you're, you're, uh, stating we need to do as an organization because, you know, not everyone's trying to tell finance how to do their job. Not everyone's trying to tell sales how to do their job, but everyone wants to tell.

Speaker A: Everyone wants to do hr. Oh yeah, all the time. All, ah, day, every day.

Speaker B: So if you can come up at them with, uh, clear policy that they wrote or that's part of the company or clear law or, you know, clear, uh, business outcomes based on things that other people are doing, then their ears perk up and they're like, oh, well, maybe I do want to listen to this idea that this HR person has and, well, let me see the value. And another mentor that I had many years ago said, bill, you always have to give them very quickly when you're new in an organization. Because when you start giving them wins, they see that you're not uh, an opponent to them, you actually trying to set them up for success. If you can do that early on and often then when you say something, hey, grab your Bob or Susan or Mary, here's my advice and here's why I think this is to be going to work or here's why I know this is going to work. You know, this has been done@x company or this is, this is what we're seeing the trends and we want to get in front of it, whatever it might be. So if you can present yourself in a way that is uh, qualitative and quantitative and concurrently you're going to be able to get more buy in from leadership.

Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, you talked about trends. So like where do you go? What do you read? Where do you go to stay up to date with HR trends?

Speaker B: Yeah, like I'm, I just read all the time. I'm always sort um, of a news junkie as you know. I'm, every single day I write something on um, uh, LinkedIn or Instagram. I have 40,000 followers uh, through all my social media and so Google News or hbr, uh, or um, uh, any of the business magazines, just whatever server my news fees are. At this point all I ever do is read HR stuff or gardening stuff. So it just, it comes to me automatically and from there uh, I'm like, oh, this is something I should probably write about because it's a really great article or this is new or this is something that my, my um, followers should probably know. So I just try to come from a place of knowledge and information sharing and would answer your question.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's always great to share information because sometimes I find that some of us are gatekeepers, like we know stuff but we don't share it. So it's always good when you meet hr, uh, people that don't have a problem with sharing resources and tools to, you know, help other HR professionals develop and grow. So I love that you, you do that and that you also share knowledge based on what you write. And as we talk about writing, we cannot forget to mention that you are an author, sir.

Speaker B: Yeah, I am. Uh, my book, I think you can see it right behind me. Recruiting came out last year. It was a, uh, labor of love. It was so fun to do. Took me a while to do it, uh, as most people I think in this space tend to overthink. So I wrote it relatively quickly and then I edited it and re edited it and then re edited and then a friend and then re edited it. So finally it came Out. It's, it's good. Uh, it's my personality. Uh, it's, uh, it's very practical and um, hands on. I'm not a guru or an expert. I love that people sometimes think that I am. I'm just a guy who sees things, sees how they've been successful. I've been mentors, uh, and I just, you know, repeat it and, or um, do it. And that's what this book is. It's just all my years of experience of working with other people who are really smart and I saw success and adopted it and it became my own. So, uh, don't sucker recruiting. It's five star reviewed on Amazon.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: Everybody loves it and I'm very happy. That I did was very nerve wracking. But at the end of the day it's quite an accomplishment. But also concurrently, no one cares when I was stressing out about it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It was out m in the ether and people like it. But it wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it was. I then, you know, going to have my next book that comes out next month. It's called Don't Suck at Culture. And it's uh.

Speaker A: Could you please send me two of those? I need to read those books so we could talk about them again on this show. Absolutely.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a good, it's a good book. I think, uh, it is a great book actually. I wrote it.

Speaker A: Absolutely, sir.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so it's very similar to the way that I write in dsa. Dsar. Don't psycho recruiting and tell, uh, real stories about clients that I worked with. And I have a framework that uh, I'm introducing that I use all the time when I talk about culture with my clients. And uh, it's uh, fun and useful and uh, it can sort of help moving the needle, I think, for some people. But also at the end of the day, culture is not something that's going to change in one week or one month or one year with one guy who comes in with his team to fix things. Right. It's a bigger conversation, but it's really fun to at least start the process.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm a firm believer that culture is everyone's business. I don't believe that culture is an HR thing. Otherwise it becomes a tick the box exercise for hr. And I don't believe that culture has anything to do with pizzas and beers.

Speaker B: Um. What? Julie, it's not about pizzas and beers.

Speaker A: I do not.

Speaker B: That's crazy.

Speaker A: I do not think it's about pizza and beers at all. I think culture is so much more than that. And it's everybody's business, right? I cashed out my entire 401k thinking someone stole my identity.

Speaker B: A fake email cost me my dream home.

Speaker A: After I sent my personal information to

Speaker B: a scammer, my AI agent agent wired thousands to an account I'd never seen.

Speaker C: When billions of people feel unsafe, that's no longer a security problem, it's an economic one. At Gen, we're building the trust layer for a more fearless planet with products and technologies from our global brands, Norton, Lifelock, Avast and Money Lion. See it in action@gendigital.com.

Speaker A: um, the culture of a country doesn't become the culture of a country because of the Prime Minister or royalty, if it has royalty. Right. It's the culture of a country because it's the people who make up this culture. And so the organization I think is the same thing. That culture of an organization happens because of the people who are in it. And so whether that culture is toxic or beautiful is because of the people who are in there that are contributing to the toxicity or the beauty of the organization.

Speaker B: I mean sort of can well known understanding of what culture is, at least for us, is that it's, it's what the shared values are, it's what the beliefs are in the organization and the behaviors that are either rewarded or punished in organizations. And uh, if we begin to understand that it is not just pizza and beers, it's how things are done here in our organization. It's the personality, it's the environment of what the workplace is. Exactly what you said. And it really influences uh, employees satisfaction and performance in organizations and shapes the decisions, uh, uh, and interactions at all levels of each company. And when people, especially leaders, understand that uh, then that's how they can start understanding what might need to be improved or expanded upon based on what exists currently in their organization.

Speaker A: Mm mhm. But I want to go back a minute to don't suck uh at recruiting. I fully concur with everything you said. I think we're speaking the same language where culture is concerned. But there's a constant battle in me as an HR professional when it comes to recruiting. There are just certain things that I don't like to see and I'm curious to know if what I don't like kind of aligns with some of the things that you see in recruiting. I've not read don't suck at recruiting. I'm just trying to, I'm Just thinking about some of the things that I know inherently I feel alone when it comes to recruiting from the recruiter side, the ghosting of candidates or just not having respect for the candidate experience in general. I think what I see a lot of, especially in the US is or in Europe is you have recruiters who get a ton of requisitions to fill different roles and it becomes a let's fill the roles exercise versus, uh, let's understand the business and build pipelines to filter talent through intentionally. So we're building robust pipelines. Instead we're just trying to tick boxes because we've got a bunch of requisitions. And then somewhere in that, candidates get lost because we're not getting back to them to let them know, you know, if they, if they weren't successful. We're not letting them know why they weren't successful. We're not giving feedback. And you think about other roles that you're trying to fill. Lay her down. And, um, because you've tried, treated that candidate so badly, there's no way they're even going to think about applying for that role with that organization again. Right. And I just feel there's so much we get wrong because we don't take the time to nurture a talent pool and create a robust candidate experience. I know I said a lot, but what are your thoughts?

Speaker B: Just taking some nice way back. Yeah. You know, um, in all honesty, in all transparency, you know, DSAR was, uh, born out of many things. It was born out of remembering what the experience was like for me when I was interviewing for chief people officer or director, uh, of hr, whatever it may have been, and seeing how, to your point, disrespectful people were in the process. And I was so shocked. Uh, you know, I was like, I am literally going to be the chief people officer of this company. I'm one of three people after it's all said and done. And this is how you treat me, and this is how you treat other candidates. This is nonsense. So, yeah, one of the biggest problems that currently and still is happening is a lack of respect for candidates and the candidate journey. Uh, not understanding that when you treat a, uh, candidate poorly, it reflects on your organization and your employer. Branding.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, it's, uh, you know, it takes one person to, you know, continually tell their friends how poorly of an experience it was to then know you have no, no goodwill with the candidates.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Overly long processes in the interview. Why am I interviewing for four months for a role?

Speaker A: Uh, six months. Why am I. So many panels.

Speaker B: Why are 17,000 people interviewing me? Why is this person. What is the purpose, uh, not having rubrics to decide, you know, what, how a person's qualified, uh, having lengthy job descriptions that make zero sense with everything as requirements. Okay, so this job posting is seven pages, and there's 19 things that are must haves. And last, I can go on and on, uh, having the candidate be the perfect candidate. The perfect candidate. They have to have 100 of what we're looking for.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So those are the things that, uh, I talk about in the book. But also it's things that we deal with every day with our client base, as, you know, no nonsense. You know, a few things like, I love people. Uh, I'm kumbaya, uh, uh, but I suffer no fools, and I have a potty mouth. I tell you exactly what I. Right. So if you're going to hire me or hire my team, I'm going to be very direct with you about what's happening. This job post is ridiculous. Everyone can't have everything on this thing. You know, purple shoes on Tuesdays. Uh, and, you know, went to Harvard, but also went to Yale, but also, uh, rose at Wharton. Like, this is ridiculous.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What are the three things that the person must have? And if these are the three things they must have, then I'm going to find the most qualified candidate. It's not, uh, the person who you like the most. It's the most qualified candidate. And then we're going to have to have a conversation if we're. If they are qualified and they have these three things that everyone must have as a minimum. Right. And they understand your culture. They understand, uh, the core principles of how and why you exist. Uh, they can add value from day one, all these things. And you say, I don't really know. This is a problem. This is a problem. Uh, so I have a very clear process that I ask, um, employers to follow if they're going to use us as their recruitment process, outsourcing company, and if they can't do it or they're unwilling to do it, that's not for me. I don't need to work with anybody anymore. I work with who I want to work with. So I'm very deliberate about it. And, uh, it makes me happy because then we can see shift and change. If you're going to try to scale really aggressively, then I need to be able to work with, uh, you and my recruiters need to be able to work with you to do things in ways that we know are Going to work. Uh, when you start seeing the shift in, like, wow, we have this requisition open for six months, and we filled it in 42 days with your company. Well, this is why we're very clear. 24 hours. We're going to give you a candidate within 24 hours, you tell us yes or no, right? And then we're going to get the interview process within 40 hours. And then we're going to have only X amount of interviews and only these who are going to be involved. Because we had a conversation about why they're involved, right. Every single time we're going to fill out a rubric, right? People are going to, like, talk to each other about, like, why I'm ranking this person a five and why I'm breaking this person a four. Right? So then we go through. We rank them, okay, this person's this, this person, this. This person, this. Okay, this is the case. Then let's move them here. Okay. If not, why here? Here's why. So it's a really clear process. And when you have these clear processes and you can effectively communicate with the candidate and keep them informed of what the process is, they're going to be interested, they're going to stick around because they understand why this makes sense. If you keep someone dangling for four months and you never tell them what the next step is, you're coy, you're unresponsive. Like, all these things, like, nobody got time for that, honestly. No, they don't.

Speaker A: No. And especially in this job market, people are. People just want to get a job, and they want to get it in the most seamless way as possible. And, um, if they have challenges with navigating this process, whether it's weeks or months, it's just too much. And so we really need to find a more humane way to manage that process. Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, it's true. Like, I. One of the reasons I think we do so well and in this space and we have a great name about it, is that we really treat candidates like people. We treat them like humans. I, uh, tell any recruiter who works with me that we all know what it was like when we were looking for jobs and had a horrible experience. It was. And so we need to think about that. Every single month, we're having a conversation with a candidate and treat them well. And I insist with my clients to tell, how many interviews are we going to have? They go, oh, it's going to be like nine interviews. It's going to be like, this person. Like, no, that's not going to happen. That's not going to happen. Right. Uh, we need to make a decision in less than five interactions. And frankly it's like, well, like three. Right. And we need to be very clear about who is involved and we need to be intentional about it. Why is this guy in accounting interviewing this person in this department when they have no interaction with them? And there needs to be 100% consensus. No, there does not need to be 100% consensus. You are the leader, you're the hiring manager. You can use input. Right? But you need to make the decision that it's ridiculous, um, that employees and candidates, uh, people who might be looking for new jobs are currently employed or people who are unemployed, look for roles, want to find an organization that gives them an easy interview process. They really can understand what the company does, how they contribute to society, uh, and uh, how they contribute to the success of the company in their role. And if they can understand these things, you can clearly communicate it, you can get them interested in it and they want to be someone who can work for you. Right. And then after that, obviously onboarding, it's a lot to do with as well. But um, I'm, uh, not trying to give a master class in this podcast.

Speaker A: Well, masterclass taken, received and absorbed. And I think that our audience will appreciate what you've brought to the table here today. And I would say if you want to learn more, go pick up that book. Don't suck at recruiting because you definitely will need it. Bill, I want to ask you, what are you reading, watching, listening to right now that you think our audience would appreciate? And it doesn't have to be HR related. But what are you, you know, what are you taking in right now?

Speaker B: I read all the time, but I'm not a big book reader unless someone says, bill, you must, you must, uh, read this book. But like behind me there, you know, there's lots of books that I read over the course of my life, but uh, there is, ah, I think Radical Candor by Kim. Kim. Kim Scott. Mhm. Jacob, uh, Morgan. Everyone knows who he is. The feature of work. What else? Uh, Lars Schmitz. Um, exactly. Those are some things that I'm reading, uh, right now. What am I watching? I mean, like that's not H.R. bridgerton. It was.

Speaker A: Oh my goodness.

Speaker B: I mean, it's such a fun show. What a world it would be if it was, you know, if that were reality. It'd be quite fun. Um, but uh, the bear, I can't wait for that to come out. That's a stressful, Ah, but fantastic show. I don't know. That's what I'm reading. That's what I'm watching. Um, outside of work, uh, I garden all the time. Every, like, time I can get time in the garden, I'm out there just literally doing it before I walked in here, uh, to chat with you. So, uh, those are the things.

Speaker A: Nice. Thank you for sharing that. The big question, Bill, what is the biggest misconception about HR that you want to set the record straight on right now, right here?

Speaker B: M. Again, I think it sort of mentioned this already. We have all the power in organizations. We have zero power at all. I mean, I've had friends challenge me in HR about that, the comments. But it's true. Uh, we have a job, like everyone has a job in an organization. And it's really funny. When you watch TV shows or movies, people say, well, in chart XYZ or HR is not going to like this. You know, we are just, uh, we're like any other role. We just have a focus. Our focus is to ensure that we're protecting the company and protecting the employee. People probably hear that first part more than they will hear the rest. We make their decisions. And I mean, I'm so direct and blunt. And I remember there was, uh, a company I worked with and the CEO was making a lot of horrible decisions. And I was in charge of obviously having a conversation. We had weekly company, uh, meetings. He's like, since Bill's going to tell us about X, Y and Z and why we're doing it. And so, uh, this was middle of my career, and I said, I want to be very clear, like, I am communicating this information, but the CEO made this decision. But I'm just the person who's sharing the information with me. And the look on his face was so. He was so upset because he. Everyone wants a scapegoat hr. I mean, honestly, I am literally just following the plan here. And I don't want to make it sound like I'm just an admin, because I'm not. I certainly think that's the biggest misconceptions, that we wield all the power in organizations and we make all the decisions. Organizations, it's. The CEO makes the decisions, that the CEO makes decisions and says, now it's up, uh, to you to execute it the best way. And so that's when we come in and say, okay, if there's a layoff, here's the way that I think is the best way. Here's. Here's some here's choices. Right. And you make that choice, and then we execute it. Do we sometimes, uh, you know, make poor choices in how we execute them? Sure. I mean, like, no one's perfect, but, uh, it's. It's not. We did not. We did not actually, you know, make that ultimate decision.

Speaker A: Exactly. I think to your point, the only time that we do hold power is on tv. We only hold power on tv. And even then, um, but in reality, definitely not. And I. And to your point about being the scapegoat, I think a lot of times that's true. Managers want to make us escape. Go, oh, HR said we can't do this, or HR said we can't do that. Oh, this is something that I'm going to have to run by hr. And then sometimes when employees come after months of not hearing from their manager, they come to us and they go, can you tell me about xyz? My manager said that they had to run it by you. And you're like, I never heard from your manager. No idea what your manager's talking about. And we get, like, all the time. All the time.

Speaker B: I mean. I mean, let me tell you, Patty is my favorite color. Uh, so when managers tried to do that with me when I was in the work world, I was like, oh, your manager said that they had to come to me for this. Let's go there right now. Let's have a conversation.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: I certainly operate a different way than some people do, but, no, that's not going to work out. Uh, we're gonna have this conversation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's not. You make a decision like, what is the policy of the company? Um, you might need to come to me because you don't know what the policy is. Company. And I can share it with you, but it's not my decision. I mean, honestly, this is what the company. This is the company policy, or this is what the law dictates. So it's not me making the decision. I'm really just an information piece who's trying to influence you the best way. That's going to both, uh, take care of the employee and take care of the. The, uh, business. The company.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And again, people will hear the company more than you'll hear the people.

Speaker A: Employees. Yes, definitely. Well, it was such a great time here to talk to you today about who you are, your HR journey and your story and all the wonderful things that you're doing, your amazing book and, um, books for your next one to come. Thank you so much for being here. Bill, can you please tell our audience how they can reach out to you if they want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing. How can they reach out?

Speaker B: Sure. Uh, I have a huge presence on LinkedIn, so you could reach me on LinkedIn Bill Brown and you'll see my face and the shirt. Or you can go to thinkpeopleculture.com and uh, find me there and all of my company information is there. Also jobsensei.com, uh, or don't suck@recruiting.com. there's lots of ways to get a hold of me.

Speaker A: Yeah, nice. Like that. Uh, thank you so much for sharing and wishing you all the best and every success and let's not take so long to catch up next time, but thank you for being here today.

Speaker B: Thanks, Julian.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining me for this episode of HR Sound Off. I hope that you found it useful. You can find this on all of episodes of HR Sound off on all major podcast platforms. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, you name it, we're there. Remember, HR Sound off is created by HR professionals for hr. Ah, professionals. If you would like to share your story, then reach out to us and let us know. Make sure to hit the notification bell and subscribe to HR sound off on YouTube as well as pod me and we'll see you again when m we Next Sound Off. I cashed out my entire 401k thinking someone stole my identity.

Speaker B: A fake email cost me my dream home.

Speaker A: After I sent my personal information to

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