Meet Catherine Mattiske - the Maestro of Change!

Speaker A: The Maestro of Changing behavior, Discovering your inner genius. What is that all about? Well, my guest today, Kathryn Matiski, is going to tell us all about it on the HR and Leadership Spotlight Show.

Speaker B: Hi, Chuck. Great to be with you, Katherine.

Speaker A: This is exciting. I, you're, you're, you're in Australia. So you're my very first international interview. Uh, you're an author, you've been, uh, uh, you're, you're a the Maestro Changing Behavior, which I can't wait to hear all about that. And you, um, you've written books, you're famous world over, you've talked to millions and millions of people, you have Fortune 100 clients. I understand. So I can't wait to hear all about it. But let's talk about who you are first. You know, who is Catherine Matisky and where did she come from? How did she develop all this and how did she become the Maestro?

Speaker B: Well, Chuck, I grew up in Adelaide in South Australia. And for those of you that don't know where Adelaide is, it's down the bottom in the middle of Australia. And so, and my dad was an, ah, entrepreneur before the term was even invented. And so I grew up in a household where dad didn't have a 9 to 5 job. So it kind of made sense to me when I went and got a 9 to 5 job that it didn't really fit with me because that wasn't my upbringing. So I started my own business and my whole purpose was to pay $300 a week rent that I had to pay. And I thought if I could get one or two days of training, uh, in computer training, because that's what I was doing, then I would pay my rent and anything else was just cream on the top. So I had no business plan, I had no idea, I had no clients. So I rang up my friends and said, could I do some computer training for you? Yes. And then that was the beginning of it. I had no intention of actually going into business. None. And after a while I thought, hang on, this is a bit of a secret. I was living in Sydney in Australia, and I thought, this is actually kind of easy, mind you. I had to show up every day and do my computer training. And then I thought, okay, I've been doing it for a while. I thought, what could I do with this business? Anyway, fast forward. Here I am 27 years later and I've never did go and get that real 9 to 5 job. I've always had my own business and now I have met the most amazing people in the World people that, ah, people say, you've met that person. I go, yeah, I know. And I'm just a girl from Adelaide. I've, ah, sat on amazing committees. I've, um, been to amazing places. I've had the fortune of working with really huge organizations where my work has been like a rock in a pond and had a big ripple effect and still is happening years later. Huh. When I go back to those organizations and they say, I did a training program with you 12 years ago when. And your tool is still on my desk, and I go, how is that even possible? So I've had a very fortunate life. It's been up and down like any business, but on the whole I think I've lived about four lifetimes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. So that's great because you discovered. It took me 27 years to discover. For 27 years, I was the 9 to 5 ish type person, HR Director. Then two years ago, I decided I'm going to go out and, and be a consultant. And it's funny, it is the, the dream. But at first you're like, okay, if I can only make this much, if I can make this much money, $300, I can pay, you know, for whatever I need to, and then I can start gaining more clients and going from there. And you've gained tons of clients. Right? So 27 years. Tell us about that. The, the.

Speaker B: Well, it's all been, well, Chuck, it's all been word of mouth really. And um, it's. I kind of, I'm almost stealth in the fact that there's one of me and there's a lot of need. So I'm very stealth and I'm very picky on my clients who I take on. Like they get on the phone and go, well, why should we have you? And in my head I'm going, well, why should I have you? You know, that's, that's where I'm at. And that sounds a bit egocentric, but that's really how it is. And so I, I really look for people who are right at that point where I say, yeah, I can make a difference and I'm going to be valued in there. Not just ha, uh, yeah, we got her in and it didn't have much impact. Not interested in that. So they have to be kind of ready and then I feel like I can make a difference.

Speaker A: Now, the maestro of change, uh, that has been attributed to you. That is on your, um, it's on your publicity sheets, it's on your Facebook page. You consider yourself the maestro. What is that all about the maestro of change.

Speaker B: Well, the maestro, um, someone actually said that about me and wrote it up about me. And it's because what I do actually works. So there is a lot of training out there, both internal and externally delivered to organizations. And if you look at someone like, um, atd, they even have a term called scrap training for training dollars that are spent. That doesn't work. How ridiculous. Wow. In a profession of learning and development is that. That is nuts. Why do we have an actual metric around something that didn't work? Like imagine in finance, if they said, oh, well, here's all the money that we lost. And. And there was a category called lost money, the finance director would be fired. Oh, we lost all those millions of dollars. But no, we can lose money with training, and that's okay. So in walks me and says, we're not going to do that. That's a really dumb idea. To have training that's conducted within an organization that people, A, don't want to go to, B, don't remember anything, therefore, C, can't apply anything. And we put it to scrap training. Ah, we tried that, but it didn't work. That is a concept that is insane to me because in my business, I look at, uh, every dollar, just like I did 27 years ago. Just like I did 27 years ago when I was really counting every dollar. That mentality in my business hasn't changed. So, uh, the reason I got that title, I think, was because, uh, Katherine Matiski comes in, her programs work and they stick, and people do something differently. And that's called a change of behavior. Now, really, that should be the norm when it comes to learning in an organization. I think I shouldn't be any different to that. I think everyone should be able to do that. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so you're in Australia. How does. And I know now, over the last, well, recent, what, two or three years, Zoom has become a big deal. Zoom, uh, type of training. How are you reaching your worldwide clients? Are you traveling a lot or were you traveling?

Speaker B: Well, I was. I was. Before the pandemic, I was, um, out of home for sometimes 10 and a half months a year. So I was. My life was on the road and my family was virtual. And so now with the pandemic, you know, there's been a lot of bad things happen because of the pandemic. Let's not take that away. But one of the great things is I don't have to travel. Fantastic. Right? So that's been a silver lining to the pandemic. For me. And so when the pandemic came along, we were already running 100% of our training programs virtually, because we get a lot better uptake, uh, a lot better retention, a lot better application of learning in a virtual environment than we do face to face. Now, mind you, I spent many years of my life in high heels, in a suit in front of a training room, and now I say to my clients, uh, I'm not going to do that because I'll get a better result if we do it virtually. Now, when the pandemic hit, people look to me to say, hang on, who's doing this? Catherine's doing this already. How does she do it? How do we take all of our training programs that we have now face to face and make them virtual? Well, that was a snap for us because we'd been doing it since the beginning of WebEx, right back in 2006. We had our very first virtual training program in 2006, before any of the technology came out. So that's been part of our life. So the traveling bit for me was simply showing up to clients who expected me to be at meetings and sitting in, you know, lavish boardrooms, which was, you know, lovely because they always had nice coffee there. But essentially it was pretty pointless. So now this is great. You know, this is my, my virtual world. So it's kind of like the world's caught up a bit.

Speaker A: And folks, uh, Catherine. And towards the end of the interview, we'll, we'll tell you how to get hold of her. But I am going to tell you from personal experience, her material, the website, just slick. I mean, really, really well done. Uh, so you can tell it's not something you've put together recently. It's really well thought out. So I hope the folks, when we get to the point that we can give out that info, we'll get a chance to check all of your info out, which, by the way, is, um, surrounded by one of your latest books, um, about an inner genius. What is the inner genius? And am I a genius? Do I have an inner genius? You know, I don't know what. Tell me all about that.

Speaker B: Well, I wrote Inner Genius Unlocking a Genius. I wrote Unlocking a Genius this year because I wanted to really look at what was going on in the world. And I've been deep into learning and development in big organizations. That's where I operate, mainly in the US and in Europe. And so what I wanted to do was to take the concepts that we teach in corporate and to really change and flex the direction of corporate and put that into the hands of everybody. Because what I've noticed over my career is that there's people that just have this spark inside them, and what is it that can ignite that spark? And really, when you're talking about someone's inner genius, talking about, firstly, how do they learn best? Like, where is their sweet spot? And we've all got one. And maybe we don't know what that is, but we've all got one. And then the second thing is the realization that we're all different. So, uh, everybody is different. So if you've got a team of people, you've got people who are basically striving to achieve goals, and they're all different. And then how do we connect with each other? And how do we then go about influence, influencing other people? And we're all in that business. Whether your team is at home, maybe you're a parent and your team is your family, or maybe you're a senior executive and your team is 100,000 people. We've all got people surrounding us that are all different to us. So how do we break through that and say, this is how I show up in the world and hook in everybody? Not just how we learn and communicate, but people who are different to us.

Speaker A: Okay, so it. And I've seen different concepts out there about communication styles and things along those lines. So, um, this makes sense. I love that, that learning style. So if I'm, um, I may learn, uh, something. I'm a manager, right? And I have different people that are working for me, and each one of them has a different. I know. Communication style. But now you're saying also a different learning style. Do you have, um, words or labels for each one of those inner geniuses? Genius, yes.

Speaker B: Geni. Yes. I'm not sure what the plural of inner genius is. Maybe in a genius.

Speaker A: I don't know. Whatever.

Speaker B: I'll have to make something up, won't I? Yes. So we have, um, different archetypes. So, for example, um, I was working with a global pharmaceutical company, and without telling too much, their products are probably in your bathroom right now. And so I was working with senior leaders who were responsible for about 100,000 people globally in their role. So what was happening to them is they would send out a communication and it would hook in some people, generally people like them, and generally people who were visionary and the great inventors of the world, and those people who were really on board with change and challenge and things like that. But then there was a whole lot of people, thousands of them who were different to that. And so what we did was I, uh, went in and said, show me your communication. Show me what you're sending out. And what was happening is that leader was sending out the message in his natural language, which is the way he learns and the way he communicates, and that's called normal. And so when we did his profile, he came out in the archetype profile that he did online that anyone can do. We can all do it. And he was called a futurist. And that's one of the archetypes. And then I explained to him, well, hang on, there's another 11 archetypes. So all the people that are a little bit like you, as futurists, were hooked in, going, this is fantastic. Loving the challenge, loving the change, loving your vision, loving you. All of the rest of it. They were. They were drinking the kool aid. They were right there. But these another 11 archetypes were being left behind. So he said to me, well, what's an example? And I said, well, what about if you've got someone that I refer to as a scribe? So a scribe is someone who's embedded in the detail, who says, vision schmission. Give me what do I need to do in my job today? What's the list? What's the data? What's the approach, all of that, and where's the detail? So we then rewrote that communication because, let's face it, it didn't work. You could send it again and no one would notice the first one. And so we rewrote that commun. And I said, let's put in some words. So I've got a series of words to hook in all 12 archetypes in the one communication. So for people like the scribe, we put in words like blueprint and approach and bottom line and concrete information. And those words to the scribe go, whoa, okay, you're talking my language. So, uh, within that communication, making it balance so that it can be sent to 100,000 people. And it doesn't just hook in one type one archetype. Uh, it hooks in all 12. And this is accessible. It's a, um, formula. And there's very few people that can do this naturally. And people say to me, why doesn't my stuff work? Well, it's because you're coming from your world and you need to say, what does everybody else need?

Speaker A: Sure. And how does that look as far as, let's say I have a company of 30 or 300 or 3,000. Do we start at the top I guess, and we get everyone on board with their archetype, is that it? And then, uh, everyone else takes it and then we all learn to communicate. But, uh, once I know my archetype, do I learn the other archetypes? Are there strategies for communicating, I would imagine, with this?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So step one is whether it's 3, 300, 3,000, 30,000, 300,000, 3 million, whatever it is, step one is to know your appetite. And then if a team does it, then we have a team map. And so then you say, where is everybody in my team? And some teams are really balanced, so there's a great spread of people. And that's, uh, often a really productive team because you've got all different types of people showing. And some people, there's a lot of one type and that's okay. And so then you say, now we know who's who in the team. How do I then use the tools? And I give you the tools to say, here is your map of how if you want to communicate to everyone. It's called the inner genius wheel. And here's the map to plot out your communication so that it hooks in your whole team. Or it may be hooking in all of your customers, for example, or all of your suppliers or people that you don't know their archetype. And then it goes in to say, okay, if Max and Sally are working together, uh, and Max is an explorer, for example, their archetype, and Sally is a decryptor, uh, then Max and Sally, how do you work together? So then they get insight into each other's profile to say, when Max is communicating with Sally, Max better put in all the things that are going to tell Sally why and connect Sally to the story and so on. And when Sally's communicating with Max, well, she needs to then really get hands on and practical about the implementation and the idea and taking the idea forward. And so that's not their natural style. And so then it bridges that gap. And I call that a translation bridge. So how do you translate that message to the other person? And when I wrote the book, Chuck, I wrote the first half, which was to say, okay, here's all the archetypes. And then I gave it to someone on my team to review and they said, well, what do I do now? And I went, okay, now I have to give everyone the tools. So then back to my computer and then I developed all the tools for people to say, okay, just use this tool, print it out, put it on your desk or have it on as an as An PDF and fill it out. Here's all the tools you need. Go forth and, you know, build those translation bridges.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I actually do. This is a really cool take on things. And, um, I heard you on another show use this quote and, and I know we're getting towards the end of our time, but I really wanted you to, to just, um, I just want to throw it back at you and just get that initial impression. Uh, you said there's no such thing as difficult people. There are just different people to you. And I thought that was a pretty cool quote because I use that when I talk to folks about, uh, well, we have conflict in our ranks and people aren't getting along with each other. We need team building. And I said, well, yeah, let's talk about what team building is. And so with what you're telling me and what I've seen, yeah, they may be difficult, but they're just different. And how can we level that? But can you take that quote and run with it?

Speaker B: Yeah. Look, I've been in so many meetings, Chuck, and you have to where people just are at each other. And I was working for a biotech company in, uh, the U.S. and I was on this legal project and it was horrendous. And every day they had a meeting, every morning they had a meeting. And every morning the meeting was the same and the project was going nowhere and everyone sat there, you know, m m. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, good. But. And it's like it was, it was torture. And then they'd get out of the meeting and they'd be going, all these senior people, and they were backyard lobbying, they were doing all of this stuff. And I thought, this is horrendous, horrendous. And I think back now, and I think all that was is a whole group of people who were different coming together, but they'd all labeled each other in this group of experts that were coming together on this really important change that was happening within that organization which could have affected patients lives at the end of the day. So that's you and me. And they're in a meeting room, you know, antsy and hideous. And when I look at this disconnection in teams, no, you know, singing around a campfire, making out where a group of people, lovey dovey is going to work at the very essence, those people were different to each other. And if we can say, okay, of, uh, course we're different. And what is it that you're bringing to the table? Because you have strengths. They were all experts but they couldn't uncover that expertise, and they couldn't uncover who they really were because they'd already decided that as a group, they didn't like each other. And so from there, we say, how can we look at these differences in groups as normal? And. And take the inner genius profile, for example, and say, let's get underneath that. What are the drivers of people? And let's start connecting with each other in your way. Not in my way. In your way. What do I need to do to ignite your expertise? Because, you know, when you see that, when you see someone talking about something they love, and I love this, they come alive. And when they sit that when they're talking about things they don't love, then, oh, yeah, all their energy drains out. So it's about finding that common ground, and we all have it. If we just take a moment to say what is driving that person? Who are they underneath them? You know, they have friends, they have family, they go to parties. Hard to even contemplate sometimes that they have people around them that love them, but somebody does, and so find that. What, why? They got married, they had children. Now that's a movie I don't even want. Right, but how do we actually get underneath that?

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I mean, I. I resonate with everything you just said. Is there anything I've missed, Katherine, that you wanted to tell our viewers and our listeners? Because this is both a video cast and a podcast. Is there anything that I've missed? And then also, how could folks get in touch with you?

Speaker B: I think this whole idea around teams are, uh, simply people that come together, and sure, they're going to have their differences, and that's called normal. That happens in families, in small teams, in big teams, across the board. But it's that of ability to connect. And that is not something that we're particularly, uh, born with. It's a skill that we have to learn through life, and no one teaches that skill. No one teaches us that skill. We learn to read and write. We need to. We learn to sit still in class. We need to. We learn all those things, but we don't necessarily learn how to listen. We don't necessarily learn how to learn. We don't necessarily learn how to connect with people that are different to us. And so these things are simply skills. Just like I taught Microsoft word, you know, 30 years ago, or Excel 30 years ago, that was a skill. This is a skill, too. And this is a skill for now in this world where there's been nothing more important than connection through this little, you know, container, uh, that we're doing this video chat on right now. We're all in our little containers, and then as we go back into offices, we're in bigger containers. But there's no more important time than right now to really step out of your comfort zone, to say, you know, I can up this. I can do a better job. I can show up as a better me, to be better to the people around me. There's no better time than right now. So that's my message to your.

Speaker A: How can folks get in touch with you? How could folks get in touch with you?

Speaker B: And what.

Speaker A: What would they, um, what would that experience be like?

Speaker B: So step one, do the profile. Go to inner genius now dot com. Inner geniusnow dot com. Reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'll help you through it. Whatever you need, just shout out. I've got a big support team behind me, so just shout for help. And I'm in the Mother Teresa phase of my life. I'm just, you know, giving at this point of my life. So just reach out to me.

Speaker A: Beyond Maestro. Beyond Maestro now. That's awesome. Yeah. Folks, um, I'll have all that information in the show notes for you. Um, Kathryn Matiski, I, uh, loved having you on the show today. And ladies and gentlemen, did you hear what she said? If your team is not getting along or they're not getting along fantastically, you know what that's called? That's called normal. That's called normal. So you want to be beyond normal, and you have to check out Kathryn's, uh, website. I'll have the info in the show notes. Kathryn Matiski, thanks for being on the HR and Leadership Spotlight show today.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me.