The $2M to $20M BPO Scaling Blueprint with Patrick Doyle Brown

Speaker A: When you're talking about scaling, we're talking about growing. At the end of the day, you can only be the best at what you're good at. And then you want to surround yourself with people smarter or more, uh, have the ability to adapt and react. There's two forces in a business that you're always working against, and that's time and that's money. The time and money that you saved, you then put more towards marketing and strategic initiatives and, and other, uh, resources.

Speaker B: We are diving into an episode that is going to inspire you with tales of growth and scaling from one of our guests. Today's guest is going to be special because we hand select people who are actively building and growing their businesses, people who know what it feels like to be in your position as a listener of this podcast, trying to figure out what your next growth steps are. And they're going to share with us those insights, that journey, and what they're doing right now to position themselves in a better place for growth and scaling. So check it out if you haven't done so already and subscribe to our channel. We are bringing some awesome business leaders into your circle, into your headphones, into your computer monitor today to show you how to what you can be doing to grow and scale your business. Share the love, subscribe to the channel, and at the end of this episode, see what you should be doing next to grow and scale your business. Hey, welcome back to the show. Today I've got Patrick here with me to give us the lowdown on what he's doing. So, Patrick, who are you and what do you do?

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me on the show, Todd. It's a pleasure to be here. So I own a bpo, and a lot of people wondering, what is a bpo? I like to say we are kind of hidden in the background where we make a lot of things. It stands for business process outsourcing. So, in a nutshell, we help companies that are building and creating product. We do all of the other things that they're not good at, uh, on the administrative side, operations sides, technical support side. So we build, maintain, and create really amazing workflows because that stuff didn't just get there on the shelf. There was a logistics, there was a supply chain, there was order and service delivery. All the minutia of, uh, getting your product to market. We handle a lot of that and we're doing a really good job. If you don't even know we're there, I love it.

Speaker B: It's kind of fun being behind the Scenes like that, isn't it?

Speaker A: It is because you figure you go into a Circle K, you buy a candy bar, you pay for it with your credit card, and you go into your car, gas up and leave. But the systems involved in that require point of sale accounting. You got a payroll system, you got an inventory system, you've got all the cameras going back and forth. And I don't. Business owners, they don't want to, they don't have the capacity nor this capital to manage that, uh, without system systems, process workflows. And it usually starts on a whiteboard and a guy like me kind of designs it, puts it all together and then create a baseline and build it from there.

Speaker B: I love it. I love it. Now that's definitely the flow. Now when I hear bpo, most people are thinking, hey, offshore, onshore, where are you at with your BPO services?

Speaker A: Yeah, so we have a very large center in Manila. Ah. So in the Philippines we also have Mexico and we also have the United States. So I like to say, you know, there are three different types of cultures. The Philippines, Asia, Asian, very collective, very large group focused. Mexico, very, you know, very much between collective and individual cultures like, uh, United States and where the United States. You have a lot of subject matter experts, high tech, high availability to strategize. But since most business workflows need a workforce that can do a lot of the tier one tasks. Yeah. In um, high volume. The Philippines is just, it is the reason why the world's tech companies all have a center in the Philippines.

Speaker B: There's no doubt about it. And I think that most companies would be shocked and surprised to see, uh, how many familiar faces there are in the Philippines. I've spent a significant amount of time there. And uh, and I think that, that, that is, uh, was one of the biggest shockers to me. I saw banks with their own buildings and uh, you know, US Banks and all sorts of interesting brands that I was like, shut up. I had no clue. They have an entire 30 story building here.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, because if you're running a company, do you really want your 300, $200,000 engineer doing data entry, doing invoicing? You can't do that and maintain a profitable business. However, in the Philippines, those workflows, that mindset, that culture, they embrace that type of work and they're very good at it. And in fact they're better at it than a lot of, you know, countries out there. There's a lot of emerging markets too,

Speaker B: but they take it more seriously than others.

Speaker A: I think they do.

Speaker B: It's a career path, you know, it is.

Speaker A: And if you think about the, uh, the Philippines islands, you have 100 million people living on islands, and there's no other industry. You can't just add factories. You can't do things you can in the United States that you couldn't do in the Philippines. It's, it's really their biggest, their best asset is people. So when BPO is people doing a lot of work with now automation, AI and all the other tools that are making it far more valuable than it used to be.

Speaker B: Exactly. You know, I really appreciate you saying that. I also owned a BPO over there for probably 12, 13 years. And, uh, I absolutely loved the people, fell in love with the culture and how willing they are to do jobs that not just people don't want to do, but. But really, to your point, the biggest asset of the Philippines are the people. I. I remember I got invited to speak to a giant youth group over there, and, um, they're like, yeah, take. Take some time and, and inspire them. And I was like, boy, what does that even mean? And I was like, I kept thinking on the whole boat ride over to this island, what can I say to them to help inspire me, inspire this next generation of Filipino to be productive in the world, to be a contributor to the world. And ultimately, the message was almost identical to what you just said. You know, there's two things about the Philippines that everyone in the world loves. The mangoes and the people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, really to be a contributor to the world, what natural resources are there in the Philippines? And it is the people. It is their love of service and their ingenuity. They are so creative at solving problems, sometimes to a fault, that, uh, that they could be solved a little bit better than they do sometimes. But generally speaking, just a fantastic place to BPO and have that those business processes outsourced to.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you, you, you should always maintain some type of core operating, um, you know, here. Ah, you know, within your, Your, uh, you know, community or wherever you're incorporated. Totally. But when you're scaling and you do expand deliveries, um, that's where it really works because, yeah, there's. They're so kind. They're so nice. They, they really, at the end of the day, they will work nights and weekends, and they're very dependable. Now, they're not going to design your core product for you. That's onshore, but blending the two aspects really gives you the ability to execute.

Speaker B: So that's it right there.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if you're onboarding a new customer and you're worried if you don't have enough resources to handle, you know, possible additional work, then you usually will contract with the BPO to provide that backend piece to make sure that you have additional human AI enabled or other resources to ensure that. Because how many times have you heard, I just spent two years chasing this. Well, now I got it, Now I'm scared. How am I going to deliver what I said?

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: Well, a BPO will help.

Speaker B: So, so walk me through. You made an interesting statement there. There's a certain layer of like what you need to keep onshore versus what you need to keep, what you can keep offshore. And I find this a very interesting conversation to have with other BPO owners because everyone's got their different thresholds of pain that they're willing to train on in the Philippines. And, and sometimes, uh, you know, it just makes more sense to do it over there. And sometimes it just makes more sense to just keep that cost high over here in the US because you can't sacrifice that happening over there. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker A: If it's a transactional problem that you can solve, it has to go offshore. Yeah, you know, I forgot my password. Where's my shipping information? Something that uh, is transactional, that may require a person to solve or automation to solve, then that's something that she pushed offshore because it is to the customer transactional. Like I need to activate my card, I need to do this, I need to do that. Okay, now it's done. Have a great day. If it is a technical problem that could be an issue with your core product, like a SaaS product, um, firmware update, rollout, stuff like that.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You may want a blend of a tier, you know, uh, onshore and offshore where you people onshore put map, uh out the upgrades and the new flavor of your product or service. It is directed in the US as ah, the front end but the back end is going to be in the Philippines, you know, doing a lot of the non customer facing work. And I totally agree. And if it's a system where I call it tier three, tier four issue, it stays onshore because those, those are, those are. But 90% of incidences that customers deal with or problems they deal with are tier one and tier two. Now there are some other professions like healthcare and accounting where the Philippines are just as comparable in there but they have, especially in the Philippines, you know, everybody's met or been uh, seen with a Filipino nurse sometime in their life.

Speaker B: Oh a hundred Percent.

Speaker A: Yeah, there. There are comparable industries where you can, you know, have quite a bit of expertise in the Philippines, that can add a lot of value because let's say it's $17 an hour in the Philippines versus $50 an hour. But it's not so much about the hourly rate is there's a labor shortage in the United States. There is not enough people to get this done.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and then when it. When you ever have projects that are seasonal, you need to add volume of human or automated labor and then remove it. Like, exactly. Like a ski shop or a retail store, you're going to be really busy, uh, in the winter, but in summer, you don't want to lay people off, so you hire a BPO to temporarily add staff. So those are. Those are usually the measuring sticks. I will state that. Are, you know, are you having problems with people? Are they, uh, you know, do you not have the labor force, um, usually money. Everybody thinks offshoring or using outsourcing is a money play. Yeah, it's a labor play. Because the. I agree.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree so much. And I also. I also thought of an experience where. Where I was. I remember we did a lot of inbound customer service, and the reason why we did that with our product was, again, some of it was due to cost, but some of it was due to their resiliency and ability to take heat from clients and not ruin the situation. It fascinates me. Uh, I can remember one time in particular where I was in office on our call floor, and I watched this call go to like, uh, 11, 12 minutes. And usually we were resolved within first five minutes of a call. And I watched this call go on, and I got on to listen, and I was observing the call, and this woman was just going to town on my rep, just tearing it her shreds about nothing she could have fixed for this woman. Like, there was nothing she could have done. And I looked across the room at where she was sitting, and I watched her, and she was just smiling. And I remember thinking, there is no way an American would take that heat and maintain their cool and be able to resolve that woman's concerns the way that this person just did. And I was so grateful that for my client's sake, that particular call was resolved. And she completely resolved it in about 18, 19 minutes, but three times the length that we wanted to go. But she resolved it and she smiled the entire way through it. So it was a fascinating episode of resiliency.

Speaker A: Yeah. And we do that for other workflows. For example, um, we probably validate healthcare coverage for tens of thousands of people every week because do you know how labor that intensive that is in the doctor's office to validate a patient has insurance? Instead, we create a workflow that we have your insurance information. Our Philippines teams validate that you have insurance and then when you go to the office to check in, you don't have to do any of that. It's so thus able to add 30% more patients because we create an assembly line of being able to get in and then the um, reconciliation rate of paying the um, you know, from insurance, you know, 200%.

Speaker B: Um, exactly. So there's. Yeah, give me a step back, Patrick, because I want to know. I think, I think what you do is very clear and how you do it. It sounds like you do it really well. And being that you've got three different centers of focus, I think that's the right way to do bpo because you're balancing a lot of different concerns that people have of, uh, where you place your tier one and two tier. Tier two versus tier three, tier four M. I think that's brilliant. Walk me through your growth strategy. Because when you look back at, ah, getting to this stage and this place where you're at now with four different, you know, three different operating centers, really core operating centers, how did that happen? And what were some decisions that you made that kind of triggered that level of growth and trust from your clients?

Speaker A: Great question. And this is actually a question that I'm asked from other founders. How to, you know, how to grow and everything.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So it starts with the customer journey maps. Just pretend you're somebody that could make your product, uh, or service. How do you find them? How do you do this, how to uh, do that? And so for us, we found when someone is looking at possibly solving labor problems or scaling, they went to search for it first. So we built and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into our SEO and you know, Internet marketing engineering, so that when you research outsourcing to the Philippines or Mexico, unity is usually the top three. Because just like a lot of founders and people watching this show, I first began with my network, the people I knew, and I refer to it as guerrilla market. You know, you're calling for sure, this is the problem I solve. So either direct dials, direct calling, or using your network or, uh, going to events. There's three things wrong with this. They're very successful, but sooner or later you run out of friends in your network. You do, yeah. You're going to go through Them all. You can only go to so many events without like, you know I'm an, I'm an amniver. I can only talk to so many people for so long. My social, that's a new one. Yeah. So I can be out extroverted when I need to be but only for a few hours a day.

Speaker B: That's awesome.

Speaker A: So and then you know cold calling or dialing or answering um, and doing uh, those type of email. There's only reach so far. It's really critical that people understand and start content and building out an SEO Internet marketing engine so that when someone hears about you they're going to go online to validate and do a little bit of digital stalking on you.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Are you a valid company? Are you US based? You have to tick off so many boxes. And what we had to do as a bpo, we had to maintain a uh, such a high level of trust because people ultimately my biggest asset is trust. You are trusting me to build your operations team to answer life changing incidents tickets, phone calls in a country you're probably never going to go to. Totally. So how did I overcome that? Well, yeah, you know, you ever buy a house online where you can walk through it virtually? You can do that in my center. You can actually have a schedule call with our management team. I will give you referrals of other clients. So I really want to emphasize to everybody that most of the time when you're hiring outside of the US it's outside your comfort zone. You may have never done it before. This is a uh, this is kind of new to everybody. But once you virtually tour my center, once you go online to verify everything, then you should come with a confident feeling that this is someone who can do the job. And then they find four other five other people like me, they line us up against the wall and they have us fight or whatever. But for all the entrepreneurs and founders talking uh, or listening to this show, it is just so imperative that you pretend you're a prospect looking at yourself. Do you pass the smell test for your website, for your assets, for your content? Do you have case studies? Because it's competitive. There is better. It is very competitive. Nobody wins a prize for being coming in second.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You know everybody like so you really have to uh, you know, it's your storefront. So for us, you know SEO inbound and then when we do outbound campaigns and we do other ones, they often will see that they come to the website to validate what we said in 10 seconds. We got them on the Phone and then we capture them in meetings. That would be that. That's how we grow.

Speaker B: That's awesome. And how does that resonate with, with your clients? Because really, um, I found that as a BPO owner, you really are an agent of change within that company. A lot of times they assume they can just outsource without really truly understanding their own processes, and you become kind of an orchestrator of their flows, more so than they ever had to think about it before. Because you as a BPO operator need to make sure that you're, you're dealing with the right problems and sending the other problems over to them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so I actually have a standard speech I give to all of them is that when we create your scope of work, your service level agreement, we're going to just create a baseline and this is our starting point. And then over time, we will modify that baseline to make it the Filipino version, the Lumpia version, or, uh, you know, whatever flavor we want to use because it is a different workforce and. Ah. And because we have, we have trainers and we have literally people that are trained to take what's inside of your mind and put it into a sop. You know, Love it. How many founders and startups don't even write down their SOPs? Right, right. We write them, um, all down. Yeah. So we have to take what's inside your head, put it on a piece of paper, and then all of a sudden it becomes pretty clear. And then, and then we often say, hey, can you write sops for other departments? And then we're like, yeah, we can, but it might piss you off.

Speaker B: I didn't even charge for that.

Speaker A: Yeah, but we do that all the time.

Speaker B: That's awesome. No, and that, honestly, as I've, as I've interviewed a lot of, A lot of founders and as I've talked with a lot of clients doing similar. What do you find are the common mistakes that they make in creating SOPs? Because I could speak to a few, but I'm curious what you see in terms of their inability to define what that process really needs to be.

Speaker A: Okay, so I'll put them in different categories. The first category, the one I work with the most, is the I'm smarter than you founder.

Speaker B: That's a lot of them.

Speaker A: It is. Listen, I know how to do an sop. Listen, I know. La la la la. Uh, yeah, maybe you probably can, but you shouldn't be. You shouldn't, right? No, your operations, Push and sid. So that's the first one is like, I know how to do it better than you. I'm just going to tell you how to do it. And we're like, okay, Great, make version 1.0 and then we'll modify it to version 5.0. We'd love to hear. So then we have usually a meeting where it's the knowledge process outsource, where we take the workflow from what he usually describes on a whiteboard and put it in and then we modify it and then, and then we try to kind of nicely shove them out of the way.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Well, okay. We know the start point, we know what you want to see at the end. Let us figure out the middle.

Speaker A: Yes. And uh, so that, that's usually the majority is I, I know it better than you.

Speaker B: And like that is hilarious.

Speaker A: Yeah. Am I right though?

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: You, you just nailed it. It's like, I know this better than you. And then they say the start, they say the end. You almost ignore everything in the middle and say, this is how we're going to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, number two, it's the other founder is the, you know, uh, you start. They usually usually delegated to the product manager or the operations manager. That's whatever scope that we're working with in that department. They'll usually, it'll be their job.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But they're constantly chiming in to change things, to modify things. Um, and that's usually fine. It can be very collaborative, can be disruptive a little bit. But yeah. And then the, and then another category is the, uh, I don't know anything about this. I'm just going to give it to you. And then when you do it, you have to be careful that it's also not your fault that you know anything's broken. So there's, there's the, they're that. But I would say most of the founders at the SMB, the mid market level that we work with, they've usually reached a point where they've tried a couple things and they didn't work. And now they're, they're okay. We have to trust now third party company to do it because they didn't want to let go of uh, what they wanted. Everybody wants to build it internally first. Yeah. But after a while, like if you're building an incredible core product.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, do you really want to then be, um, you know, be a manager of a invoice reconciliation team? Does that sound like fun to you? Yeah.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: We will gladly take that off your plate for $10 an hour and all of your invoices you'll have your, you know, 30, 90, uh, uh, age, uh, ar, um, summary activities. Totally will create an amazing dashboard for you. Now go code. Go somewhere else and code Totally.

Speaker B: Now listen, you're speaking the truth, man. And I just want to give an amen to that. Because, you know, one of the things that people discount about being a BPO operator is that the P in BPO is process. And I think that you, as an operator yourself, Patrick, uh, of owning this type of company, have become a master systems creator. And, uh, I never recognized that when I was in the weeds of doing my bpo, but I recognized it long afterwards of, wow, it's amazing to me how many people can grow their business to X million dollars of revenue and never really, really build the right processes and systems that they need to scale that. And so you become the scaling vehicle for them to be able to. To build more sales and, and still

Speaker A: be able to fulfill a good example. And I swear, there's one. It's almost like realtors. There is a web design company on every corner of every Salt Lake street, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, there is.

Speaker A: You have a web design client where you're. You're migrating from, let's say, a WordPress site to a custom site, right? Well, when they migrate all of the website over, it never goes 100% smooth. So then they have to have a team that manually brings everything over. My team does that all the time because all we're doing is typing, copying, pasting from one dashboard to another and formatting it. Right? Yep. I don't know any web designers that love doing that.

Speaker B: I, uh, haven't met one either. No more video editing. Every. Every videographer loves to take the footage, but they hate to paste it all together. Right.

Speaker A: But we'll be more than happy to do that for 10 to $11 an hour.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: You can charge your client 50.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now, listen, this is a, uh, this has been a really interesting discussion because we've touched upon your business. We've touched upon the fact that there's different skill sets and different tiers of support that you need to outsource and where to do that. And we've also talked a lot about, you know, the challenges of building systems and processes that actually can be repeatable and not supervised the entire time. All those things are really, really key components. And what gives you a business to now operate? So what's your advice to people out there who are struggling to justify, you know, like, if they're just not good at systems, how do you help Them see they're not good at systems and bring them into what you're providing. As, uh, a business operator yourself, I use fear.

Speaker A: I use fear a lot. So you have somebody's job that is to do this thing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Now if that person leaves you, there's a lot of words for that. Some of them start with an F. Right? Oh crap. Right, right. When you have a system, that means you're no longer reliant on the fallacy of humans. You now have a system with somebody, let's say they don't show up for work, they get into a car accident, they have a child. Right. There's a lot of beautiful things that happen in this. Well, now you have a system that then takes the work forward, regardless of that human intervention. Because if you don't have a system, you're reliant on usually a single entity person.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And how hard did you work to get to this point only to be sidelined because somebody else had a bad day?

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: But you also want to have systems to protect your people. You, you know, I would like to send you home with your new baby for 60 days. I can't do that without a system right now.

Speaker B: Listen, I'm a firm believer in what you're talking about. And ironically, as I've now interviewed well over 550 CEOs on this podcast, there is a strong connection between people's ability to scale is always dependent on people and processes. So people, processes, and ultimately tools.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I think are the three big killers of growth. They do get resolved when you have an amazing team to rely on like yours. I just want to, I just honestly, I want to give a shout out to you as a process organizer because I think oftentimes BPO operators discount their ability to do that. And so kudos to you for doing that for other companies and my big request for everyone out there who is a business operator. You know, when you're not a good systems guy, and when you are, and when you're not, I highly suggest you talk with someone like a Patrick, if not Patrick himself, and identify shortcuts that you can take in building better processes that will not only eliminate wasted labor and resources domestically that you may not need to take on and burden yourself with, but almost more importantly, to help you engineer the right workflows that are going to help your business grow, whether domestically or offshore. Thoughts on that, Patrick?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, spot on. Because we always, you know, when you're, when you're talking about scaling, we're talking about growing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: At the end of the day, you can only be the best at what you're good at. And then you want to surround yourself with people smarter or more of the ability to adapt and react. Because there's two forces in a business that you're always working against, and that's time and that's money. So BPOs can help scale up a team very quickly, uh, probably quicker than you, and it saves on money. And then in return, the time and money that you saved, you then put more towards marketing and strategic initiatives and other, uh, resources.

Speaker B: The things that make you more money.

Speaker A: That's right. That's right. Because if, no, if you were in the weeds all day, you're not going to get past 10 people. You're not.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Right. Listen, I love this conversation and I feel like, I feel like you painted the picture that I think every business listening to this podcast needs to recognize, and that is focus in on the things that make your business awesome. And if systems and processes aren't your jam, make sure you find strategic partners that can help you accomplish those things and build systems and processes that actually allow for growth to happen naturally and you not getting in the way and being the bottleneck of that growth. Because I don't know about you, Patrick, but that is one of the things I see most frequently is people are the bottleneck and their systems can't be replicated because it's all in someone's head and that person is a human. They don't produce all the time.

Speaker A: So, uh, and owners like to feel like if they create a system versus keeping in the head, they feel vulnerable because now they're not the ones who can fix or do issues. And you need to let that go because ultimately when you have a system supported by an idea, it's just far more powerful because it's executing your idea at scale. You just need to be really, really confident that, you know, the system itself will help you and get you through that, that stage. You just can't. I often say, like, 12 to 15 is a magic number where you need to start developing systems or you're going to stay at 3 million a year or 2 million a year. And that's.

Speaker B: It's hard to get past a million without some good systems and processes. I think that your point is well heard though, Patrick. I, I think that it's. It's numbers of people, it's numbers of revenue. You've got it. If you have any hope of scaling. It's got to happen with, with processes and systems and the right people.

Speaker A: So, yeah, and, and with, without systems, you're not gonna, never gonna be able to enjoy a day off.

Speaker B: Sorry. Amen to that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Patrick, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I'm going to put links to your website below and I'm going to encourage everyone that, that is struggling with their systems and process to reach out to you because I'm, I'm 100% sure you've got a team of people who are amazing at outlining parts of their operations that can likely be outsourced and save them the time and the money to get those things done that are going to enable them to scale. Is that right?

Speaker A: That is right. Thank you so much for having me, Todd. And please, by all means, you can go to my website and link a meeting with me. I would love to hear how I can help your business.

Speaker B: Love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Patrick. Hey, we hope you enjoyed that episode. As with all of our guests, uh, that we've enjoyed on this podcast, we hope you take a minute to reflect on how relevant was that to your growth journey. How relevant is that to your business? If you are not taking steps to grow and scale your business, chances are you're not growing or scaling. So how do you know if you're growth ready? Check it out at Growth readiness. Com, if you haven't done so already. We have a free assessment@growth readiness.com that's right, growth readiness.com and measure up to see if you truly are growth ready. If that magical amount of funding or that magical client popped into your doorstep today, would you be ready? Could you grow and scale your business with what you've got ready right now? Chances are there are some places you're strong, there's some places you're weak. We let you explore that for free@growth readiness.com Click on the assessment at the top right. And we, we challenge everyone that listens to the podcast to go see how growth ready your business is from your perspective as an owner, founder, operations director, or even a sales manager. Is your company on a path to growth readiness? If it's not, reach out. Let us know what we can do to help. We have tons of resources, tons of free stuff and some really, really high quality paid stuff that's going to help your company reach that level of growth that you hoped it could be. On whether you're aiming for exit, whether you're aiming for a, uh, fundraise, or whether you're just trying to sustain the growth you've already had, go to growth readiness.com and check out what you're doing and and if it's working for you. Thanks for being a part of the Growth and Scaling podcast. We hope all these interviews are helping you determine the best path for your growth and giving you real world examples of what you could be doing in your business today.