The Founder Who Sold Her House for 34 Tons of Salt - Samantha Skyring, Oryx Desert Salt

Speaker A: There was a huge thunderstorm up in the Kalahari. And he said, if you want to do this, you know, you need to have buffer stock. And I was like, uh, I'm in. I sold my house and I moved into a wooden Wendy house in the corner of a friend's garden. So I totally, radically downscaled in order to invest in my business.

Speaker B: Yes, that's all in now.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was exactly all in. Being a new single mom, I just had to get on with it. There was no doubt about what I needed to do. I was only going to get one chance to get into Whole Foods. You get invited once, and I was not saying no. And so I just really focused. And I fortunately had networked the year before and got the category buyer's email address. And then I just kept emailing him every couple of weeks. If I was feeling desperate and kind of, you know, contracted and scared because of the situation, I wouldn't write my email. Then I ended up meeting the wife of my current shareholder in a 10 day silent meditation in Worcester.

Speaker B: So a hell of a journey. Just in the early days. Days. What's the level of scale that you're at now?

Speaker A: So we supply around 23 countries. We're nationally in Whole Foods, which was my Covid blessing, and I would say we are a household brand in South Africa. Although I also believe we've got a lot more work still to do.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome back to the Founder Files. Today I'm talking to Samantha Skyring, the founder and CEO of RX Desert Salt. And this is one that I've had a lot of excitement for because this is a brand that I've recognized forever. But I've always been curious about the story and, well, now I got to fulfill my own wish, and hopefully yours too, by hearing about Sam's story about building this business. And it's definitely. I, uh, always thought it was going to be interesting. This is more interesting than I definitely expected. And yeah, not only do we hear about her originally finding the Soul Pan and how she grew that journey bringing investors on board, uh, how she's expanded to the US as well through Whole Foods, but also exporting into 23 countries at the same time. But yeah, a lot of this is just really her story. And the you'll even hear me reflect on this is that her level of intentionality, her thinking towards her vision, how centric she is to her purpose, is not just not only inspiring, but brings a huge amount of clarity to what she does. And there's certain things and like habits and behaviors that she does that, um, yeah, really connect, I think the long term to the short term. And I'm going to leave it that abstract for now because I want to let you just enjoy this experience of hearing Sam's story. So, yeah, if this is the stuff that you're into, you like founder stories and you're not following the podcast, just make sure to do so now. It's the best way to support the podcast and also the best way to make me happy as the host. So thank you. And yeah, let's just get straight into this. This is an epic story. Welcome to the Founder Files, the podcast that's like eavesdropping on a conversation with a successful entrepreneur over a fireside chat. Join me, Cameron Coutts, through this unique experience of unfinished filtered stories and insights from scaling founders around the globe as they share their ups, downs and everything in between. So, welcome to the Finder Files. Nice to have you here.

Speaker A: I love you to be here. Thank you, Cameron.

Speaker B: So, Sam, um, for those that don't know you right, or uh, those that don't know rx, which might be surprising because you're a very recognizable brand in the space that you are in. Uh, and I know that's very deliberate, but just, can you just tell us about yourself and your business?

Speaker A: Um, so Samantha Skyring and I founded Oryx Desert Salt, um, which is an absolutely beautiful salt and a gift from the Kalahari Desert. Um, so it's a mineral, rich, clean, unpolluted, sun, uh, dried salt that comes from a very remote and pristine salt pan and underground salt lake in the Kalahari Desert. Um, and salt is the smallest ingredient in every, any meal, but the most important and the oldest traded commodity in the world.

Speaker B: A big story about salt. Um, it also reminds me of when we first met Property, uh, at the Civitas event. You're actually educating us about salts, right? Because like we know Himalayan salt's a big thing. Um, yeah, I think that's a two point. It's like something that we consume every single day in every single meal, but it's not something I've ever really given any thought to. So just like educate us a little bit about salts, the different kinds, um, and why RX is the best without being super biased about it.

Speaker A: Sounds interesting. The Vega Marketing school, ah, Oryx was part of their brand challenge and they brought, and it was quite young students and they brought up that, uh, products are so often inherited by our parents. Um, although, uh, so so many people know, um, one of the table salts that I, um, think we all grew up on, um, and that became the, the norm of salt. Um, but actually table salt is industrial salt. So it's stripped of all of its minerals, um, it is highly processed, refined, potentially possibly bleached. And they then add anti caking free flow chemicals in it. Because it's used for industry in paint and plastic and textiles and many more, they needed to flow freely, hence they put in a chemical which is a, you know, it's a man made chemical, um, and well, potassium iodide and aluminium silicate and things that the body doesn't really recognize. And it's actually making salt not do what it's supposed to do. Salt is naturally hygroscopic and allows our bodies to see, stay hydrated. So putting in or consuming salt that is very, um, dehydrated because they heated in ovens and then got chemicals to stop it from absorbing moisture is really giving the body quite a hard time. So thank you Himalayan salt, for coming um, into our lives. Um, it's pink, so us ladies really sort of fell in love with it. It looks pretty, um, it isn't from the Himalayas, it's from Pakistan, about 200 km from the Himalayas. But pink Pakistani salt doesn't have the same exotic ringtone as Himalayan. Um, but it uh, created a global awareness of salt. And it fascinates me because it was pre Internet that it sort of came into the market and went global. And for me it was, it's almost a telltale sign that we really needed to switch off table salt and switch onto salt that is mineral rich and less refined. But because of now the global demand, it's dynamited out. It is a non renewable resource and the communities are getting paid $4 per ton. So there's sort of slave labor involved. And then of course sea salt, $4 a ton.

Speaker B: That is ridiculous.

Speaker A: In fact, somebody was telling me the other day they were paying I think 180 rand for 20 kilos. Um, so, you know, and that's imported. That's the shipping. The transport comes from an area that's remote. So yeah, um, it doesn't feel good. It should be five or 10 times the price, especially because it's a non renewable resource. Um, but it certainly woke us out all up and switched many people off table salt. Um, and then sea salt. Obviously we've been harvesting from the oceans for however long humans have been alive and um, on the planet for which is always a debatable, um, conversation. Um, but unfortunately we haven't taken. Not unfortunately, it's very shocking Actually just how much we have not taken care of our oceans. And so 95% of sea salt has been tested with microplastics. Um, there would be industrial contamination. They found barrels of radioactive waste in the oceans, um, plus pesticide, fertilizer runoff into the rivers from all of the farms. So sea salt is not what it used to be. And um, I've grown up and um, raised my son on homeopathy and homeopathic remedies is the essence and the vibrational frequency of something. So sea salt would have the frequency of, um, many other things we don't really want in our food. Uh, the one thing I forgot is the cruise liners dump a billion tons of sewage into the oceans every single year. And I met a marine biologist in the USA, uh, Dr. Stephen Kavanaugh, and he tested some oysters in Ireland and discovered opioids and contraceptives. So the pharmaceutical contamination of how many, you know, western medic medication that so many people are on, you know, some of that we pee out and it ends up in the oceans. So in my world, sea salt. Thank you. No, thank you. I, um, would much rather have this gorgeous drop back to my little shelf. Um, so this is for those of you who don't know, is beautiful Oryx desert salt. And yeah, two, uh, hundred and fifty kilometers north of Upington, they discovered a 55 million ton underground salt aquifer which is renewed and sustained by underground rivers. When we draw it up onto the salt pan, it has not been touched by human hands and it is oversaturated, which is a bit of a phenomenon in the salt world. So in summer at 45, 50 degrees Celsius, it crystallizes in only four weeks. So it literally is imprinted from the beautiful sun, moon and stars and the desert wind. And we bottle it. Um, and so it's just really clean. It's a high vibration, high frequency, delicious salt with all of the minerals and of course with the underground rivers flowing, these ancient rock strata, uh, it's perfectly balanced by nature and we don't add anything, we don't take anything away.

Speaker B: So I mean, you're clearly very passionate about salts. And my curiosity is just where did that start? How did you get, how did you get into like, because, uh, like the interest in salts clearly happened before the business or correctly did it happen maybe afterwards? How did, how did this begin?

Speaker A: Um, so a colleague was selling the salt, uh, in bulk to Europe and he didn't want to make a product for South Africa. He deemed the market too small, which you Know in some, compared to the rest of the world it is. Or compared to America. Um, and I, it was 2007, I'd just had my son and uh, it was also the financial crash. So I'd had an NGO or an NPO called 20,000 Drums. I'd been traveling the country for seven years with a beautiful team out of Soweto and we uh, did facilitated drumming workshops in very rural communities around the country. We uh, ended up workshopping 50,000 children and distributing 15,000 drums. But in the financial crash there was no corporate funding for feel good, happy, spiritual emotional upliftment projects. Um, and I had my little one. So I wasn't really looking for anything. And actually blessings and thanks to um, the father of my child who I introduced this colleague to. And so we started exporting um, to ah, Denmark initially. And then I had to leave Denmark, um, in a little bit of a hurry with a note on the table and I came home and I'd actually already created the brand, um, in Denmark and I had product made. So I arrived back as a new single mom. Um, and I had this product that just needed my attention and you know, feet on the ground and visiting restaurants and retails, ah, retailers, predominantly independents. I didn't, we didn't go into formal retail for a few years.

Speaker B: Okay. So obviously the supply of this already existed. Right? So the, the, this, the salt pan was there and you were just um, obviously buying it and then putting a margin on it and then exporting it. So this person, who or people, business, um, is their single supplier. I mean how big is the pan? Is that? Is it owned by multiple people in sections of it? Yeah.

Speaker A: So yeah. So uh, I mean salt is uh, I forget the volumes, I must look it up. The volumes of salt is astronomical. Um, and so there are many salt pans around South Africa. Um, and this particular salt pan is owned um, by a family and um, by a business. And they have many salt pans, salt, sea salt, um, other pans where they supply epol, it's a low grade salt. Um, but this particular pan in the Kalahari, um, they had been harvesting from for about seven years or five years when I joined and they were looking for volume, so quantity, not quality. But they happen to get quantity and quality. Um, so in fact the uh, Solpan owner was my first shareholder. Um, I sold my house and bought 34 tons of salt. And uh, I could feel, you know, ready after six months.

Speaker B: What's, what's that at $4 a ton in Himalayan salt. Um, I'm joking. But, but it's, it's. It's just, it's. It's just. It's really reinforcing the fact that, like, how. Um, the slave labor involved in $4 a ton. If you sold your house for 34 tons of, of the Salt M. Yeah, A lot more.

Speaker A: And so, uh, maybe it was a tiny house. It was a nice house. I mean, I moved.

Speaker B: I'm sure it was. I'm m. Just, I'm just being facetious.

Speaker A: I know. So it was in Joburg, but I sold my house and I moved into a wooden Wendy house in the. In the corner of a friend's garden. So I totally, radically downscaled in order to invest in my business. Um, and yes, that's all I know.

Speaker B: Hey, that's all in.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it was exactly all in. Yeah. So in fact, my. The 34 tons I actually bought from this colleague and there was a huge thunderstorm up in the Kalahari, and he said, if you want to do this, you know, you need to have buffer stock. And. And I was like, I'm in. Like, I was passionate about it already. And um. And so, yeah, I went and I, I often do things. I'm very spontaneous. I don't have. I didn't have a business plan. Um, I just. Yeah, I just gave all. So I put it into a storage land in West Lake, actually, like stashed a garage, uh, was totally filled to the brim. And so I was. I could feel that the, you know, the, the, the additional cash I had was paying for rent and buying stock and. And so on. And um. But there was this parallel, um, awareness that at some point I was going to run out of stock and I was going to run out of, um, cash and that I needed an investor. Um, so I always wanted to know where was the source and who owned the source, because I believe that there's an energetic quality about where something comes from and the hands that it moves through. And fortunately, I was introduced to the Salt Pan owner, Mr. Brown, um, through a beautiful mutual chef and uh, uh, Craig Cormack, who had been up to the Salt Pan and had an experience up there. And so I just picked up the phone and phoned and said, hi, my name's Sam. This is my product. And fascinatingly, he had discovered or seen the Oryx Desert Salt brand on table the day before. I phoned. And so his PA phoned me back and said, come in tomorrow. And I remember quickly putting together like a flip chart and the articles and the. I'd been supplying, um, uh, La Marque, is it not La Marquee? Um, La Baki was actually the first restaurant that I worked in, in Joburg and um, with Macho Yansa. And so I'd had got good traction over a year. Ah. And so when I went in it was just a conversation and I mentioned I was putting together a business plan and he said, please give it to me. And I was like, wow, what an incredible partnership. You know, the source, the soul plan, the supplier and then me creating a brand. Um, however, um, it took about six months for us to sign and seal and we went to this 50, 50% partners. Um, he wanted 51. But I managed to stick my um, heels in and say no deal. Um, but after a year, um, we weren't profitable, which I wasn't expecting. I was kind of going on that thousand day rule. Um, but I got an unexpected I want to exit letter, um, which you know, I phoned him up immediately. I was quite confused because a week before I had shown ah up, uh, I used to set a meeting once a month, which you mentioned earlier. Um, I did the Sardar course, I think 12 or 13 years ago. Um, and that was pretty awesome for me, I think it was three days. Um, and I really, I mean I'm a proper founder, entrepreneur. I haven't been to university, I haven't done an mba, I haven't done business science, I haven't done any university degree. Um, and it was a beautiful teaching of the different hats that entrepreneurs wear. The manager, the director and the shareholder. So I felt like I was really growing up. I'd set a meeting once a month and I'd go and just share where I was at, what was happening in the sales. And the week before I'd shown up with a new product and he was so excited and he was singing my praises to his colleagues and his staff. And then one week later I got the exit letter. Anyway, he said to me, well, we're still not profitable. And he wanted his um, loan paid back within three months. And um, so that was a blessing because it really ignited and switched on the need for networking. Um, and I suddenly, it was like this was food on my table, this was nursery school fees for my, for my toddler. Um, so I was still quite in survival mode. Very much in survival mode I'd actually say. And, and, and so that in retrospect those crises really are a blessing. You know, even when I started rx, when I left this um, unhealthy relationship, um, being a new single mom, I just had to get on with it. Um, there wasn't, there was no doubt about what I needed to do and uh, and it was an amazing experience. I mean some of the people that I met then, I'm um, I'm still um, you know, friends and colleagues with, we're in the same industry and we have, you know, we meet occasionally and we see each other at trade shows and, and I had to just put any shame or any doubt behind me and to the side so that I could find new investors. Investors and interestingly so I love um, you know, where you put your energy isn't necessarily where it comes back from, but it does come back because I'd had so many meetings to find, you know, another crowd or another person who would invest in, in me and Oryx. And I ended up meeting the wife of my current shareholder in a 10 day silent meditation in Worcester. So we had this sort of connection in silence. And then when we came out of the silence, we chatted up a storm. And she said that her husband and his brother were setting up a business to invest in small businesses to bring both business acumen and uh, finance. And I met with them and about six months later they bought Mr. Brown out. Um, I always say I got two for the price of one because now I had two different uh, businessmen who are supporting and bringing in their sort of IP and strategy and so on.

Speaker B: Okay, sure. I mean it's a hell of a journey. Just in the um, early days, uh, just getting to that point I think before we dive straight back into the story is what's the level of scale that you're at now? Like where is Oryx as a business in the end of 2025?

Speaker A: So we supply around 23 countries. Um, we're nationally in Whole Foods, which was my Covid blessing and I would say we are a household brand in South Africa. Although I, I also believe we've got a lot more work still to do in South Africa. Um, I took a new, uh, I took a new sales rep recently. Well, yeah, gift, gift. I uh, picked up off the street. I picked him up on Chapman's drive. He was stamping the, the slip that you get when you, you know, when you go all the way through. And he had so much joy and, and his in, in the 10 minutes that he stamped my ticket, I turned around and went back.

Speaker B: It's a long time to stamp a ticket as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Um, so he starts on the 3rd of November, but I did a training day with him and went along the Sea Point, uh, road and saw about 24 restaurants and I would say at half or maybe just under half don't have Oryx, which is quite scary. So why is it scary?

Speaker B: I mean it's, it's, it's like I'm comparing that to your expectations because I mean another person could view is like, oh yeah, half the restaurants in Seapoints. If we're using Oryx, does it soul. It's like, wow. It's like, no, it's like it should

Speaker A: be 100 not using. So I guess the, one of the missions and the, the visions is to be on every restaurant table across South Africa. Um, and, and the reason also because it's, it's not only about having. Well, there are many reasons everyone should be eating Oryx Desert salt as opposed to what else is on offer. And uh, it's great branding and marketing for us. I mean that's really where I put, uh, RXD's @SALT on the map.

Speaker B: In fact, I'm even trying to think about it now. I'm like, I'm wondering who your competitors are because I go to restaurants and even if they're not serving Orex desert salts, it's like you're the only one that's branded. And so like, that's why I, I recognize it obviously from restaurants and then also being in retail. Um, but I wouldn't even be aware of who your competitors are.

Speaker A: So they're quite a few. Um, I'm not going to name them, I don't think. Um, the difference however is that we've been spearheading a grinder with a ceramic mechanism for 12 years, I would say. Um, so the internal mechanism, um, and I actually have a brand new little. Um. So please read this when you get this. Don't just pick it out and throw it away. It's been put in with a lot of thought and intention. Just give you the message.

Speaker B: What does it say?

Speaker A: I'm gonna have to put my glasses on for that.

Speaker B: That's okay. Also for the people that are only listening and not watching.

Speaker A: Oh, there you go. Uh, as I have a ceramic grinder head, don't throw me away more than 20 times. Refillable plastic free grind only refill with RX Desert salt and a heart.

Speaker B: I love the fact that you did because I remember when we spoke at Civitas is, um, we were chatting exactly about this and about, about the refill. It's like people would refill it with other salts because it's a nice looking shaker. But then also at the same time people would Throw it away. Um, throw the shaker away as well. But then also be concerned around plastic. And I'm also sitting there as like person that's used your product is like, I had no idea that that's ceramic. Like, we definitely need to be aware of that. So cool. You also moved very quickly then because that wasn't that long ago since we had that conversation.

Speaker A: Exactly. And so we do have on our, for those, um, who can see, we've got a sticker on the front that says readable, reuse real value. Try. And on the Tampa seat it says ceramic grinder. But in this time we all. I don't think, I don't like reading things. You know, I don't go and read the fine print. So, you know, we've been thinking about in which ways that we can get this message across because as you said, so many people are not aware of it. Um, but I did a calculation, um, last year. So I took the refill boxes and the buckets and calculated how many hundred gram grinders that they could refill and it worked out to around 817,000 grinders that I believe we saved from, uh, landfill because there are more consumers and many restaurants that are refilling. Um, so we, we changing the tamper seal. We're going to put a big sticker on that says ah, ceramic grinder. And then on the lid on top, we're going to brand it again and we're going to say refill, not landfill. And we did a poll around this. Should we say refill, reuse real value or should we say refill, not, uh, landfill? And that was the one that came up top. And then the, the plan for the future. So currently our batch code, barcode, production date and all of that is on the bottom of the grinder is um, busy getting quotes to do to get an inkjet coating. And then we have the bottom of the grinder to, to label as well. And I think on the bottom we're going to put don't throw me away. Um, so if they don't get it after three or four puns, then then there's not much more that I can do.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's not too much else you can do.

Speaker A: Yeah. Although, um, I have a post on LinkedIn currently that is a picture of the grinder with the don't throw me away tag. Um, and it's had more than 300,000 impressions. So it's done incredibly well. And it feels like people, the message is starting to spread, which I'm really pleased about.

Speaker B: Awesome. I mean, okay, so you're exporting 23 countries. Um, I'm assuming you're not. You don't have exclusivity over uh, the um, the salt pan with Mr. M. Brown. Right. So obviously you won't be the only, um, distributor.

Speaker A: Not, not locally, um, internationally. Yes.

Speaker B: Um, and is that an exclusivity agreement like M. Again, I'm just trying to understand your edge in the markets that

Speaker A: you're playing in for international supply. Yes, we have an exclusive, ah, supply from this particular salt pan.

Speaker B: Well done for nailing that. But yeah, it's also just really, um. It's always fun to interview someone where it's like I've been. Because again, going back to the point where we, where we started is salsa is something we use every single day. And it's one of those things where like, you've got like the only, besides the, the one logo that happens to be a child chasing a certain feathered animal. Um, ah, that's like the only two recognized brands. Because it's also your point of like, what did we know in childhood versus now? Um, where I'm exactly going with this is it's that even in revive something that I consume quite regularly as like an electrolyte mix now it's like powered by. Because I even picked up the box. I was like, I should actually maybe chat to Sam. It would be really. Because it's like they've got like natural salt in here. I was like, maybe they should supply. And then I flipped it over. I was like, oh, they already do it. Nice. So it's really cool to see that your brand is um, getting into so many different places. And so like, help me understand the kinds of markets that you're in. So I mean you, you say you, you, you are exporting internationally. Is that two restaurants, Is that two retailers, is that through wholesale chains? Um, in South Africa, I mean you're even supplying um, other like consumable product brands as well. So you must be in like many different like, spaces. Must be a lot to keep up with.

Speaker A: So I think that's been the hardest part. Although from the very beginning I focused 50% on food service because salt and pepper sit on a restaurant table. And so I knew that it was free marketing and brand awareness for a, for a sale, um, and retail in. Initially I only focused on independent retails. Uh, because when people, you know, go into a deli, they usually browsing, they don't have a shopping list, maybe, um, have more time, more money. Whereas if you go into supermarket, you've usually got your shopping list. You'll go to the salt aisle. Um, you'll scan for the brand that's familiar, the logo or the look and feel that you got in your kitchen already and you'll pick it up and you'll put it in your basket and run off to the next item on your list. Um, so want you to get the brand out. Also, um, started on the food trade show. So there was good food and wine show in the early days both in Cape Town, Durban and Johannesburg. I had somebody who did the slow food market in Stellenbosch for five years. There was the taste, um, taste food and wine, um, show that I did many of and so that, that amazing connection with consumers that sharing the story. I do the, I do a taste test actually I grind oric salts uh, onto their fist like a tequila, tequila fist. Um, and, and then sea salt and you can actually taste the difference. So that was my initial front facing, you know, starting to spread the word. Um, and then I did, I think in year three or four I did a Sarkta which, which is a sort of Christmas gifting and, and two REIT independent retailers and suddenly I could um, you know, do an order of 5 or 6 or 7,000 versus you know, at that time, you know, selling a grinder for 35 rand. Um, and I, I got all excited and I got really tired of doing, doing consumer shows and, and then started getting other people to do them. Um, so with the manufacturing. Yes. I mean there's still so many brands, artisanal brands that could choose RX desert salt. But again, I mean I don't know how long you've been using revive for uh, probably quite a while and wasn't aware. So again we don't read the labels so we don't get that much marketing. So I prioritized where I was going to get, you know, marketing value. So even the top restaurants in South Africa I did. It was a beautiful moment when Mo Yansa from La Cartier when she tasted and she was like absolutely, I'm not using anything else. Um, so it was a lovely. Nice to have. But those restaurants, you know, the client doesn't know um, what salt.

Speaker B: They're going to take the salt out but they're going to put it into the little thing there and you are going to have like a little wooden spoon or you're going to pinch it like that.

Speaker A: Exactly that. So that's still today, you know I focus and yet um, so especially when we launched in Whole Foods in Covid so In Covid, we lost 60% of sales. Obviously. No food service, no, no tourism. Um, and, and the sold sales in retail didn't go up that much. Um, but what was beautiful about it and uh, something that, you know, the phrase I think I learned in Serdar and something that entrepreneurs talk about or coaches would talk about, work on your business, not in your business. Um, and it's something that entrepreneurs and founders struggle, uh, with because you're so busy doing every aspect of the business. You know, getting the sale, doing the invoicing, packing up the order, organizing the courier. And so it was a lovely moment when I could feel that I started delegating that when I got my first, um, admin staff, um, on board. Shafiq, who is still with me today 12 years later, and he's, uh, now the warehouse manager. Um, and when I started using courier, so I would go, you know, courier the string to Ursi, uh, and Ndebeni who made the cotton bags instead of me driving to Cape Bag and picking it up and delivering it. So I remember that was a lovely little upgrade that I could feel. Um, so when Covid hit, I was staying on a lovely farm in Nuruk and I wasn't going into the warehouse daily. And so suddenly I had perspective. You know, I was able to look at, look at the business from, from a distance. And I knew that I needed to. Firstly, there was that kind of like I am not having put. So that was in, uh, 20. So that was 10 years, no, probably nine years after, um, you know, starting Oryx. And there was no ways I was going to let things fall apart. Like I was not putting nine years of my life and hard work and, and seeing it unravel. So I really put my intention, um, and for me it's been a big part of Oryx is, uh, and building the business is really defining my intention. Um, so I knew that I wanted Whole Foods. I heard about them and discovered them a few years before, um, at a trade show in Germany, an international food trade show. And so I just really focused and I fortunately had networked the year before and got the category buyer's email address. And then I just kept emailing him every couple of weeks so that my computer. Okay, is it the right moment? How am I feeling? Am I feeling desperate? Am I feeling excited? I would like check in with myself and where I was at. If I was feeling desperate and kind of, you know, contracted and scared because of the situation, I wouldn't write my email. Then. Um, so, and, and then I got a Response about six weeks after the third email. And he apologized, um, I'm sorry for my delay in getting back to you. And I was like curious. Buyers don't usually apologize. And then got a presentation date for five months later. And I'd obviously sent through. I created a very beautiful presentation, did a lot of homework in the US Knew exactly what uh, the uh, product was going to go on shelf for, what it was going to retail for. I had discussed it with my business partners um, because Whole Foods and many of the retailers in the US require free fill. So a case of every product free on shelf. And so that is going to be um, a cost. And you also have to commit to three or four times a year of a promotion. Whole Foods specifically currently is $12,000 per promotion. That doesn't include the 15% um, of discount that the customers receive in the Scandac. Um, so it's a big commitment. And I also knew I was only going to get one, one chance to get into Whole Foods. You get offered an invited once and I was not saying no. So um, and five months later um, I got the listing. So just after Oryx's 10th um, sort of anniversary or birthday, um and again that was almost a seed that had been planted. My business partner now Garth, had read the autobiography um, of the CEO of Nike I think it is.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yes. And apparently in that book he said it takes 10 years to get into America and you've got to know that you want to get in. And um, I'd sort of discovered LinkedIn five years before we launched in uh the US and I used to sit, I'd get LinkedInitis, that's what spend hours every day um, sort of searching for very specific people. Food editors, food M press, food media, food bloggers, food influencers. And I grew my connection um, by about five and a half thousand people um when we launched. Because I had in my mind always one day we're going to launch in the USA and I knew that I needed a network. So for me what's been really interesting is there's always this sort of, I find like I have to travel timelines a lot. Okay, so what do I need to do today? Oh that email. But I know that in two years and five years. So I've got two influences at the moment. One um, of which is Dave Asprey. He's the father of biohacking, um, which is the sort of um, longevity health optimization um sector. And I saw him on a video share that a grind of salt in your drinking Water is the smallest biohack. And I was like, I like you and I want you on my team. I want you one day to be talking about Oric salt. And if you have a look on our Instagram feed now, I think he's done two or three posts in the last few months. Um, I've been at his uh, biohacking conference in the USA four years in a row. And so there's this long game too, you know, really. And it was another sort of gift from the Sudha course. Um, they had Ronnie Mule come in and do a share of his experience mounting Everest. And so I often use climbing a mountain as an analogy because if you're going to climb to the top of Mount Everest, you need to know that that's what you want to do. One is get to the top. And because that's your mission, you're going to do the training, you're going to get the right equipment, you're going to get the right people on you. You need a good, um, Sherpa, you know, to take your stuff up with you. And so, you know, you, you create things in order to get to the top. And so that's been, it's been a strong, um, you know, picture for me through, through the years of knowing. One is I actually want to create the next global household brand of salt. Um, and I wanted America first, because once we get America, that just so salt is obviously, you know, you're going to pay 45 Rand for this on shelf. It's a, it's a volume product. It's a volume business. You know, there's a small, um, margin or rand value that we make from each grinder. Um, and when we, when we crack the, the loyalty and the customer base in the USA and we get that volume, then it, it gives capital and you know, will just then kind of spread quite naturally across some, some other.

Speaker B: I mean, so just, uh, continuing from that point that you're making is that I want to connect these, these two topics in that you sold your house, right, going right, right back to the beginning at uh, for 34 tons, right? 45 grand for a grind. I mean you're dealing in a naturally. When you, when you've got something like salt, it's a very low margin kind of business. Uh, on top of that you are also thinking two, five, maybe even 10 years into the future, you're very intentional about the bigger picture. But then also you're doing stuff around dealing direct with consumers and in those consumer shows in the beginning. So like there's this, there's this challenge of you're very intentional about the long run. You seem very present in the short term as well. Um, but you've also got this pressure of a business that needs massive amounts of volumes to be able to grow, to be able to scale. Obviously besides bringing investors on board. How do you manage that? How do you manage the bigger picture with the operational micro detail where you are now. But also how did you manage to get through that process of getting the business to a, a point where it can also sustain you and allow you to grow and flourish.

Speaker A: So I mean I, I have such deep respect for any founder entrepreneur business that has not needed investors. Um, there's no ways I could have, you know, I seeded the company but the amount of volume or the amount of stock we needed and the debtors, the, that sort of um, you know, suddenly you're owed money by a bunch of people but you've got to have enough stock to supply them and others. So uh, that was where you know, firstly Mr. Brown, um, supported and then um, Evolve Capital came in and took over and supplied capital. And in fact just pre Covid, um, we both diluted 5% and brought in more capital. Um, and I mean when we met at Civitas we all had a laugh, I think. Um, you know, George said oh, how many of you are you know, really profitable and like you know, cashing in on the dividends? Um, and it's a curious question because when is that that point where you know it really everything you put in and the, you know, I mean if anyone told me what we're turning over now and we are making a profit but it's um, we certainly not getting dividends. It's all going back into the business. And um, yet the numbers are all there on the management accounts. I can see them, you know. And you know suddenly you scale and so you need a new person and a new computer and then you need a bigger office because we, the first office I was in was I think maybe 50 square meters if that. And then we went to 125. Um, and then we went to 350 and now we're in a 750 square meter warehouse. And I think by November next year we're going to need to upgrade again to. And it wouldn't make sense to go just to a thousand square meters. Would make sense to go to 1.5 or to 2000. Which means that suddenly your rental is so much more, which means you've got to sell more. You know, it's like. But over the last couple of years I feel like we've been.

Speaker B: But the challenge is like not only there you're going and selling more is about the fact that you're selling to Whole Foods as well. And so the pressure on your margin also. So you're getting volumes but your margin's also decreasing at the same time because of the different markets that you're getting into. So although you're getting scale, it's like it's, it's, it's that um, and obviously profit as like um, an absolute number is definitely growing. It's still getting like quite tighter um, as you, as you keep scaling and.

Speaker A: Well, so like in Whole Foods, um, obviously in the beginning, um, we were having to do these quarterly uh, promotions and if you were to amortize that, um, and take that out of the profit, it was much bigger than where it is at now four years later with the volume. So you know, as the volume grows the costs actually come down. Um, so the next container we're sending in December will be a 40 foot container versus a 20 foot container. So we've kind of done the math because you've got, we need to pay for storage in the warehouse but the shipping will be lower. So it's just these sort of incremental. But I think there was a really beautiful moment a couple of years ago and I don't remember it being a defining moment where I realized for so many years I felt like I was rushing towards the end, the end game. I was rushing towards creating this business and doing it and finishing and now I've kind of really settled back into this is my life. I'm loving it. I love the product, love selling it. I love being on trade shows and I'm not rushing to get anywhere. Yes, I know where we want to scale and I mean I want Oryx to be so successful that we good that we start an Oryx foundation and invest in other businesses and invest in the staff, uh, substantially and really make a difference in their lives. Definitely going to have an ESOP when all the shareholders, loans and investments have been paid off. Um, so that for me is actually in a way my driving force now. But it is just my life. Um, uh, and I'm out of that survival mode and, and that's made it made a huge difference. Um, it's allowed me to be more present as opposed to running towards something that, that obviously if you're running towards it, it never, it never arrives, does it? You know, it always stays in, in the distance. It's a bit like, you know, running towards the horizon on, in a desert or something. You know, that, that mirage doesn't, doesn't

Speaker B: ever appear m. Yeah, welcome to me and my striving nature. Trust me. It's something I've been working on in therapy for years and it's still, I'm still in it. Um, but Sam, I'm just trying to like, if you had to talk to me about someone who's got a salt business that sources it from the Kalahari and exports it into uh, into 23 countries through whole Foods South Africa. I picture someone who's a lot more intense, a lot more ruthless, a lot more like profit driven, efficiency driven. And I just, I point this out as the, I think what is the strength of RX is the brand. It is also you, is the fact that you are joyful, right? You, you are open, you are intentional. Like there's um, there's a fun, there's a spirit that comes with this. And you, you've built, you've built an amazing business at the same time. And the reason why I say this all out loud is it's not, not just because of like, biases and how I think about people and businesses and types of businesses, but it's again, just going back to the point of, it's uh, of it's a very tough business that you're in, right? It's, you've got physical supply chains, you've got massive amounts of uh, of produce. It's like you're, you're again the profitability. Because, because top line is vanity, bottom line is sanity. And, and when you've got a business like this, it's out there, it can be quite easy to go insane. And so this is why I'm just harping on about it. And it's not because I've got any, any question, right? It's just like I want you to just share with the audience of other entrepreneurs what it's like to run a business that requires so much attention, so many moving pieces, so much complexity, requires such volume and with low margins and like, uh, I think there's a lot to be learned in there. And so I just want to, I just want you to keep sharing some stuff that you think might be relevant to us or tell some more stories around how you, how you manage your operations, how you manage your, your business, how do you make sure that you continuously scale, um, even as being a spontaneous person at the same time, as you admit, without necessarily getting the business into trouble. Like, ah, like yeah,

Speaker A: So I think one aspect is I feel very on purpose. So this feels like my soul work, um, to the point that I mean this beautiful logo, um, the oryx gazelle. I did a 120 kilometer walk through the narm of desert seven years before I started RX Desert Salt. And actually only a year ago, um, I much if I should say this on camera, I did a mushroom journey. And in that journey I suddenly relived that moment and you know watching these oryx sort of from a distance and they went behind a sand dune and then they ended up running up the hill and skidding to a stop. I was in their path. Wasn't like they ran to the left or the right or you know in front. They literally I was sitting in their path and, and that, that moment and that was only a year ago and I've been and coming up now In December is 15 years. Um, so just really landed more how um and what I said earlier, this is my life, this is who I become in a way and I feel on purpose because salt is so essential for not only our survival but for us to thrive. Um, you know if you're eating table salt you're not thinking properly. If you're eating table salt you actually don't have the right um, um ah, environment for your baby to grow properly because there wouldn't be the minerals. So um, and, and, and you can test it out. In fact I had a lovely um, experience recently where I was in a meeting at 3 o' clock in the afternoon and I kept yawning and I was so embarrassed. Um, you know I realized I hadn't drunk any water and my water's always either got revive or got oric salt in it. And so I chugged down sort of a third of a bottle and I stopped yawning. So salt makes you cognitively sharper. Um, and you know I think even both revive says powered, you know powered on oryx desert salt. And my email signature is powered on desert salt. And um, and people can experiment with eating more salt and putting more beautiful, unrefined, unprocessed salt into their meals, into their water and you sleep better and you can operate better. So I think that's being, being a big part for me. Um, it isn't just a job. Um, and then I think having the vision like really one, I mean so prior to um RX I said I had this um, NGO called 20,000 Drums and I had a vision of 20,000 children in a stadium all drumming together. I don't think there's ever been 20,000 children drumming in a stadium together. One beat, one heartbeat. So for some reason, I think big and I think, uh, I scale in my head very quickly. Is this possible to scale? Even if other people mention business ideas to me, I'm like, oh, sometimes I just go and cringe. Do you know what you're going to have to do to scale that? So I don't know where that comes from. Um, just. I guess some people have that visionary creative aspect to them, which, you know. Thank you, Soul. Um, and mom and dad or however, um, that I. That I got that gift to us. It in that queue before I arrived. I definitely did not stand in the patience queue, let me tell you that. I skipped the patience queue because it was a long line. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: In fact, I had a really, really beautiful moment last week. I got a message from somebody saying, please can John Perlman of 702interview you? And I was like, yeah, sure. As he started introducing me, he said, oh, I was overhearing Samantha in the queue at or Tambo, um, on the Sunday morning, and I'd actually stood up and said to the guy behind him, please, can I. I. Can I just come in the queue? Because I really don't like cues. Do you mind if I skip in? And he was like, why? And I was like, well, I just don't want to go to the back. And then I ended up with this. This interview in 702, which is. So there's a reason I don't like cues. So, um, I digressed.

Speaker B: I mean, I think even putting. Putting that all together is you get what you ask for, right? And so even there is. It's like. Like, uh, being unapologetic is like, I don't like cues. And the funny thing is, is because that's just so. That's just so disarming. If someone had to come to me smiling, and it was like, could you mind if I just, like, stand here? And it's like, like, what? Why? And it's like, I just really don't like cues. It's like, that's just so honest. Like, I. I can't. I can't hate on that. So, like, um, sure. Uh, like 100%. And then. And then I definitely want to have a conversation with you because that doesn't happen every day. But. But connecting that also to, like, the whole. The whole point about you as a founder and also your business, it's like you. You're saying that your. Your vision's remarkably clear, the purpose behind the business Your own connection, motivation to it is, is remarkably clear as well. Um, so I get the energy part. Help me understand the focus element of that. Right, so what is the vision for the business? How do you maintain focus?

Speaker A: I think it's a balance between being in the detail but being in the vision. So, you know, I think we chatted, um, prior to us, uh, coming on the recording. Um, I meditate every single day. Um, and, and part of my meditation is the vision for Oryx. So it's really, really is part of, you know, my, my daily practice. Um, and I'm excited about it. You know, it's, it's a challenge. Um, and so, so, you know, it's been an interesting journey because I like what I do now. I couldn't have done 10 or 12, but, or 13 years ago. So it's been an incredible, uh, journey of watching myself grow and upgrade and watching Oryx grow. And as Oryx grows, I have to grow. So it has been this, you know, you can't scale a business unless you're growing personally. Um, and, you know, the last couple of years I have, um, I call him a wise woman, not my therapist, um, because I think therapist has like a connotation of there's something wrong with you. And I don't believe there is. Um, it's just, you know, in the African, uh, in an African proverb, it takes a village to raise a child. There was always the wise woman or the wise man or the auntie or the uncle. And now we just have to pay for the auntie or the uncle, you know, um, and I've had a life coach who has not only supported me, but supported my relationship with my son, who's now almost 18. And we had a hard, it was hard. He was, you know, down the rabbit hole of his gaming and his fortnighting. And I'm trying to run my business and my son's spending too many hours on computer and we were struggling with our communication and so he would see her, I would see her and we'd see her together. Um, but, but getting support for being, for, you know, managing my situation at home supports me to run my business. So that personal growth is actually, it's not negotiable actually for anyone. We need, we need support, we need mentors, we need people who we aspire to. Um, uh, and in fact, in the early days, and this was like really 12 years ago possibly there was that real entrepreneur, Brian got his surname anyways. It was pre podcast, Internet, uh, Spotify and all of the rest in YouTube. And I had a pile, I think I've still got them somewhere, a of piece pile of CDs on marketing and finance. And I would listen to them over and over. So being inspired and, and, and kind of, you know, looking for the information that I needed, um, has been also, you know, really important for growing the business. Um, and currently where we are at, or I'm at, we're at, um, is um, looking for other investors to also come in to the business. And it's been an incredible, um, six months of just again networking up a storm. And it's the. I love metaphors. Um, so my metaphor at the moment is there's like, um, you know, when you're putting a puzzle together and you put the border first because that's easy because it's got all the flat edges, you know, and then you pile your colors together. Um, so I've got the framework for this beautiful big puzzle, but I'm slowly gathering the pieces. Um, so I actually had a beautiful woman, um, Karina Govenda, um, in the warehouse for many hours today. And she's going to come in and have a look at the business from that objective perspective. Um, you know, if you move into a new home and there's a chip on the door frame or there's a crack in the corner of the bathroom and you go, gee, and you really need to sort that out quickly because that's going to really bug me. And then within two weeks you don't notice it. So I'm quite aware that we've got blind spots and I don't know what my blind spots are.

Speaker B: Um, what's the nature of a blind spot?

Speaker A: Well, exactly. Quadrilles. I'm needing somebody else to come find our blind spots. And where are we leaking? I want to become hyper efficient. Um, I want genius in the team that every person that what they're doing, they're doing it to the best of their ability and they focus on what they need to do. Um, so I haven't been scared of, you know, we were very stretched with people for quite a long time. Um, and I think that's where the personal growth has come because, you know, often founders and entrepreneurs, when you hire someone, you know, you hire possibly lower or at the level that you're at as opposed to hiring where you need to get to. Um, and so we did that already last year and we have actually done that for the last few years. Um, and Artwell Mushanguri, um, our GM currently. Oh, thank you Artwell, for coming in and Putting the structures into the business that we really needed. And so it feels now that I'm really checking out the foundations and just making sure that everything is strong so that we can. I'm feeling a nice scale that's on the horizon.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, uh, super. I mean, I'm still stuck with the metaphor, um, that you gave. Sorry, now I'm making this about me for a moment, uh, because you helped me, uh, clarify that. Sorry, you didn't help me clarify that. It's what you've just given me, uh, a new way to explain something. Because when it comes down to strategy and, like, the main pro, like, the main thing that we do is obviously helping skating entrepreneurs get their strategy out of their heads, but make sure that it's aligned with their team. So not everything is dependent on one person for decision making. But then it's also like elevating that strategic IQ of the business at the same time. So more people can think like strategists, more people can think like entrepreneurs. Um, but in terms of where we start is it's always in the market. So we will do market segmentation and understand the competitive environments that you're playing in and what are the competitive advantages one has in the value proposition. But how we explain that, uh, in terms of why it's necessary, in terms of the problem to solve, outside of just where should we be growing, who's the core business? That metaphor of we start with the border first. And the border of your boundary should actually be about your markets and the customers that you're serving. Right. It's like that. That's. That's where it should be focused now and then, as we start putting in the pieces, how does the vision sit within that? Right. How does the direction. Growth that you want to be in, and how can the different people and the structures and systems and processes and then as a team, how do we start painting this picture together? But it's still the only reason why we have a business is because we have customers. And so, like, having that as the focus and the boundary. Um, I don't know, what do you think of that metaphor and that story? Because it clicked for me. And obviously I'm, I think, like a strategist. And, uh.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting. I kind of, um. In a way, you know, for me, the framework has kind of been the vision, the picture of where I want to get to. But then I just had a thought to myself, but if it's a frame, then it means there's no growth. You Know, because it's, it's static and it's fixed. I was like, just.

Speaker B: I prefer to think like a Harry Potter picture, let me put it that way. Yeah.

Speaker A: Has got moving edges.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and it can grow as you grow. So I guess it's really, um, and I think it's important to, you know, and I, and I really thank my shareholder.

Speaker B: It grows as you grow as well because the broader. The border can expand. It's not fixed.

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Um, you know, in the very beginning, sort of 12, 13 years, 12 years ago, um, and I was asked, um, to do a, you know, forecast and a budget. And I was like, I don't want to do this. And then after I did it I was like, oh, that was very useful. And that was. That, that was a good exercise, you know. Um, and you know, recently we've done this, you know, I mean we do do it every year, but this forecast. But we've done a three year forecast. Um, in fact I feel like I need to go into my archives. I would love to find my original budget, um, that I put Forward to pre Mr. Brown, um, and see how on track I was with that. Because you know, again, it's like, you know, if you're journaling or if there's something that you want, if you write it down, you know, it's almost like you pulling it from the ethers and you're grounding it and you're saying this is what I want. So that, that forecast is, that's where I want to get to. And you know, so it's a bit like the mountain again, you know. Okay. So if I want to get there. Okay. So our contract um, for our warehouse ends in a year. So is it a year left or two years left? So there's always this playing with the bigger picture and doing what's current right now and what is needed for next month or the, the trade shown six months. And it's. So one's going to be quite fluid with, with and spontaneous. Um, but, but very fluid with timelines. Be able to grow into the vision and hold the vision every day and then come down to. Forgot that email yesterday. Get on to that. You know.

Speaker B: So, um, yeah, I'm fully on the same page because I mean I don't like five year plans. When is a five year plan ever gone according to plan? Um, and the way that I also like to think about vision and particularly long term goals, obviously annual goals and budget setting, different kind of story. But the moment that you have anything longer than that, it's like, what are these milestones? What does the vision look like? And the point is it's achieved when it's achieved like the benefit of having that focus and direction. It's like we know we're getting to, but then we can be fluid in how we're getting there. And it's more just thinking about dependencies, like what needs to happen in order for us to get closer to that mark. And then we can be quite fluid within the process. Um, yeah. So I love how intentionally you think about, um, your strategy of your business.

Speaker A: Well, if you don't, you know, how can you get there? That's the thing, you know, even, even in one's personal life, if you don't know what, what you want, you know, how can God or Providence get you to where you want to get to if you don't know where you want to get to? So I think that, you know, having that, that very hyper focused, um, clear picture just makes it easier because then, you know, and, and, and yes, um, you know, I guess it's like a roadmap if you want to get from Joburg to Cape Town, not the other way around. Um, um, you know, you can, you can decide to go on a different road because you know, the N2's got too much, too many trucks on it. But you still know that you want to get to Cape Town. Um, and you might want to stop for a while at a potstallaki. Um, but you know, you just keep, you know, and, and yes, it might and it always does. Um, not necessarily on a road trip, but in a business I think it always takes longer than one anticipates. I mean, yeah, I mean I'm 15 years from launch and um, you know, I've done incredibly well and scaled it. Um, but the profits that I thought would be there are not there yet. Um, so it's been a really interesting experience of business, you know, and what it takes and how much money it takes to um, just to run a business. Um, and at the same time I know that at some point the volume will, um, you know, will um, what's, what am I going to supersede, I

Speaker B: think, or hockey stick. The hockey stick effect.

Speaker A: Yes. The volume will be greater than the expenses and the profit from all of that volume, um, will, will be paying the dividends. Um, and so now, I mean, in fact when we um, launched in Whole Foods, actually pre launching, um, so knew from the presentation that we were going to get a listing because the lovely buyer Chris kept saying, so when you're on shelf. I mean if you're on shelf. And he said it three times in the meeting. I was like, all right, I think I've got this in the bag. Months later we got the listing and then we needed to launch five months, needed to be on shelf five months later. But from that point.

Speaker B: But I mean, I'm also not surprised by that because just looking at your brand and thinking about wholesale, uh, like Whole Foods, it's like a hand in glove, kind of like brand to brand fit.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And, um, so from that first presentation in the September, I knew we were going to get a listing. So already then in the September, I found a new warehouse, um, built, started building a packing room, um, and, or rather started training the staff in food safety. And then when we got the listing, the January we built, we had already moved into the new warehouse from 350 to 750. So sometimes one's got to be. That was the risk. Um, didn't have the listing yet, but I was so sure and knew that if we were going to get the listing, we needed to be ready for that. And so started so, and I think that's where the intentional, the being so bold that um, you just, you make it a reality actually. Um, and so when the hired 10 staff, um, squashed international food safety into three months, it usually takes a year, um, packed a 20 foot container, put it on the water and then I had five weeks before it landed and the launch happened and I took myself off on a little. On a little holiday to Zanzibar just to have a breather. And then I was like, okay, we are about to land on shelf. How are you going to get off shelf? You know, and suddenly it was like a whole new dynamic and like, because

Speaker B: you're on shelf in an environment where no one's ever heard of you.

Speaker A: No. No one.

Speaker B: How did you solve this?

Speaker A: So, um, so we launched in the September, um, in the July, I did a summer fancy food in New York. And remember I told you about Dave Asprey, who I'd already, I'd, I'd send Salt to him. Two years.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, and you'd already, you've got five and a half thousand new connections on LinkedIn from people that, all these food editors and like you, you've been, yes, you, you've been sowing those seeds for ages already and now, now you're just ready to switch them on.

Speaker A: Exactly. So, um, my very first post on LinkedIn was my dream has come true. I've launched in Whole Foods and it had at the time, 23,000 views or impressions or what have you. And they were all to. The only people that I had was 90% USA based, um, at the time. And suddenly, and then I went to the biohacking conference in the September, literally the same month that we launched and suddenly I actually discovered a whole new, you know, you were talking about market segment. For 11 years I had been focused on the foodies. My whole network that I had archived or harvested, I call it in the usa were foodies. And then I went to this biohacking conference which is um, you know, a, ah, collective of people who've got money. Um, so it's a high lsm, but they very embodied. They're endurance athletes, they do gym, they influencers.

Speaker B: They're very deliberate about what they put in their bodies.

Speaker A: Exactly. And so in fact the summer fancy food, it was three days, I had 30 conversations and only one was exciting because the guy was an endurance athlete and understood the importance of salt for hydration. When I went to the um, Dave Asprey's Biohacking Conference, 3 days, 165 exciting conversations and every single one of them knew salt was important and everyone. I didn't have enough stock to supply them, but I had stock on Whole Foods shelves.

Speaker B: That's uh, I just love that again, in terms of the, just the beauty of market segmentation and because like when you're looking at Whole Foods or if you're looking at retailers, it's like for them you've got to have a specific value proposition need that you're meeting and the certain positioning you need to have. But then towards your actual customers, if you're going to restaurants, it's like, it's actually all going to be about taste and like, how do I explain a narrative why the taste is better? But then there's an entire new customer segment. There's like, I don't actually care about taste. I care about hydration and performance. And it's like, okay, it's still the best for that. But it's. But um, yeah, it's just who the person is you're speaking to. But that's the beauty about your product as well is that it's, it's um, the narrative can be flexible, the messaging can be flexible, but it can still be um, as pure as it is. M. That's really cool. Uh, did that happen just organically? Were you already starting to cultivate that messaging and narrative around hydration and um, the health benefits of the salts as well? Um, yeah. The reason why I want to say that is basically what's this balance or ratio for you between very deliberate versus very emergent and spontaneous. Yet throughout all of that is like, you're super intentional. But, like, did it just serendipitously happen? Did you know that that was the path that you want to go down, who you were targeting? Like, yeah. How much of this is. Was, was, was created versus um, happened.

Speaker A: So I think it's, I think it's an end end. So two years prior, I'd seen the video of Dave Asprey, you know, talking about salt in your water's hydration. And I literally, I wrote an email saying Dave Asprey on my wish list. And I wrote or I wanted the, the social media campaign. Um, and I wanted to be on his newsletter and I wanted to be at his conference. Um, and in fact I networked incredibly well and I managed to get some funding, um, out of the USAID for marketing. So they supported, not entirely, but, um, probably, um, about two thirds of that campaign. Um, because they kept talking about, so usa, it supported us to go to the summer fancy food show. And because Oryx's launch in Whole Foods, they kept saying, oh, look at Oryx. You know, we support them at summer fancy food. And they got a listing with, with Whole Foods. And I was like, sure, talk about it. You're going to pay me back one day. And so there was an event where all the bigwigs in USA were at, um, the Premier's house, um, Lou and Hof. And I just went straight up to each one of them and I was like, you know, like, Oryx is the poster child right now. All of the other foodies in South Africa are watching what I'm doing, what Oryx is doing, and we can't. It wouldn't be right for me to fail right now. Like, we need to make Oryx a success. And anyway, managed to do it. So we, and Dave's PA and I just really built a beautiful relationship through that campaign. And, and then last minute she was like, uh, I'm not going to charge you for the, for the table. And she gave me a little cocktail round, cocktail table. I worked that cocktail table and that space around it. In fact, the two ladies next to me afterwards was like, how do you do it? And what I realized also, and this is just a seed to anyone who does do trade shows, I, uh, always make sure I stand in front. If you stand behind your table, you're cutting yourself off. There's a barrier. But if you go in front and you're engaged and I mean, you can see I'm quite like. I like using my hands. Um, and I'm quite tactile, so. And, um, yeah, so. And when there's a good connection with somebody, I'll hug them. And I ended up with the most beautiful friendships from that. From that show, um, and the organizers. And now last year, from just building this relationship with organizers, um, they invited me to be on a salt. To create a salt panel, um, and talk about salt. And so it is, ah, an all and nothing is, you know, segmented. It's the intention, it's the work, it's the show up, it's the prayer, it's the providence. Um, it doesn't. None of them happen by itself. Um, is my belief.

Speaker B: Yeah. So there's. I don't often do this. Um, but I think it's worth reflecting on because, like your kind of secret sauce as a founder, I'd say bring down to like three. Three things. Um, uh, so obviously the one is going to be like, like, like complete purpose and like purpose slash belief. Like, that's the first bit of the Venn diagram I can see there. Um, and it's like not, not any. Like you saying, like, this is your soul's work. You found yourself in the right place. Like, this is the business that you want to be having. Like, there's so much meaning. Uh, you light up when you're even talking about, like, even now you're talking, you're recollecting that memory, and it's like you're lighting up, engaging with other people, talking about just your salt, about. About your business. But, um, there's so much purpose and belief in terms of the benefits that you can do, the people that you want to be able to benefit later on. Um, then that overlaps with the intention and vision side of things. But it's like you're the most intentionally intentional person I've met. Um, and. And really after they're doing like nearly 150 episodes, like, this has been like a very unique characteristic is that the. You're like. Your intention setting is. Is like the best example I've encountered where, where you, um. Forgive me, my tired brain. I've even forgot it. Forgot the, the. The biohacker's name. Dave Asprey. You said Dave M. Asprey? Yeah. Okay, so even there, it's like you. It's like you see him once talking about salts. He's like, okay, I will be there one day. And you write it down and then from there it like, like Things emerge and things happen. And I think if I think about myself and I think about a lot of founders as well, it's like you have these moments as like, oh, like it's not even. I think it's also the difference between like, the purpose and belief is also belief in yourself. Right. And so that kind of combines then with that intentionality because there's a lot of people, me included, which is like, sure, I wish I could, or, or if only. Or like you're maybe one day or. Etc. And it's like, no, like, like I will have that person that will be there. It's obviously not going to be known, but like, that's, that's going to be the, the, the intention. I'm seeing the intention now. It's like I'm going to have Dave Asprey talking about my business. And that intention setting doesn't, doesn't, uh, equate to any kind of judgment or I can, or is it the right timing, et cetera. It's like, I've seen that that's what I want. And when it happens is when it happens. And I think what connects the two of those in terms of purpose, belief, and then with the intention setting and the vision is grounded in like, radical honesty and authenticity because you're not bullshitting yourself, you're not bullshitting anyone else around you. And so being, being that intention, being that vision is you're being radically honest about yourself throughout that process, but then also with the kind of purpose and belief setting as well is you're able to do it kind of wholeheartedly because you are just also being yourself. And so there's nothing to hide, there's nothing to misinterpret. Um, and I just wanted to reflect, reflect that and see if that resonates with you because, um, it's, it's a very, um, helpful reminder to me around what, what a visionary characteristic combination looks like.

Speaker A: And I'd like to add another, uh, onto that sort of foundation is gratitude. Um, I get incredibly excited and so incredibly grateful. Um, in fact, to the point I had an experience and I coined a new word. And I think I've coined it because I searched for it on the Internet and I couldn't find it. Um, is a gratitude gasm, the gratitude chasm.

Speaker B: Okay, that's. That, that, that, that one's new. I'm going to be seeking a couple of those out in the, in the coming days and weeks.

Speaker A: So. And what I realize is, um, gratitude needs to become. In all, I believe that in order to be successful. Gratitude is not something that you, you think about doing. It's, it's who you become. You're just grateful for every. Like I was grateful in the beginning for that first order. Um, when something else happened, I get grateful. And I've actually expanded that to say that expressed gratitude is a superpower because there's. Because when you, you know, when you share your gratitude with others, then um, they feel that gratitude and it becomes a wave or it becomes a movement in a way. Um, and you fuel yourself with your gratitude. Um, and it's not something that you keep for yourself. So, um, I've become, uh, pretty good at sharing my gratitude. If somebody, you know, if something happens, it's just like thanking them, you know, like my, my suppliers and my, um. Um. You know, when I get, uh, When I got world market in the usa, you know, writing like a beautiful email to the buyers or to. In fact I had at one point this. I got this most gorgeous photograph of the oryx in the desert by a, um, internationally renowned, um, Russian photographer. And his two favorite animals are the oryx and the arctic fox. And I would do this beautiful thank you in this message. And so. And even with the dti, you know, they um, I get, um, support, uh, three or four times a year. So the Department of Trade and Industry.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. So, um, uh, businesses, if you, um, are, you know, an SME, um, and your company, um, is audited and you've. There are many trade shows around the world that are either for design or for food or, you know, these different sectors and you can go on a trade show internationally and share your brand with the world. Um, and I would always, once I got my, you know, once I got my um, approval for going and when I got back from the show and I'd had the experience of meeting, you know, many people, I would always send the DTI and the people that I worked with a thank you letter, um, because I wouldn't have had that opportunity without their support. So just. And I think we all love being seen. I think that's, you know, one of, um, probably, you know, humans wounding is not feeling seen. So if somebody thanks you for, even if it's just their job, there's a, ah, you know, there's a. I think there's something that comes back and it's not done manipulatively, but it's genuinely a deep appreciation and a deep gratitude. Um, and yeah, it was really very special actually, um, six weeks or two months ago when I was last in the usa, I had a wild, wonderful, like radically curated trip arriving in Denver, straight into a meeting, another meeting in Boulder, staying at a friend, driving to Telluride for the most beautiful four day food and wine festival that was just exceptional. Um, and then, um, to Las Vegas where I did an in person podcast and then to Florida for another in person podcast and that was on a Friday. And there were new friends that I had met in um, Abu Dhabi the year before. And so I reached out to them and ended up staying with them at their little beach flat north, um, Florida and just spend two days after an incredible, you know, two week trip in a reclining beach chair with this most spectacular ocean. And I felt like I was in a National Geographic show because there were pelicans and sacred ibis and um, little warblers and all these birds. And I sat there for two days doing nothing but listening to music and connecting and laughing and sharing and getting to know these two beautiful new people. And every time I got off my chair and got back on and I reclined it and suddenly I was suspended with these waves lapping underneath me. I'd start giggling and I'd start laughing and then I realized, um, so at the end of this beautiful two week uh, trip, uh, in the usa, which was an amazing food of wine festival and a podcast with Sean Mike Kelly with 12.2 million followers which hasn't come out yet. I'm really excited for that to come out. Um, and then another one was Samael Tejada who's that's just come out and that was on a Friday morning. And often I would just book my flight for that evening and then spend my weekend traveling and then arrive and feel like I've got to dive back into work Monday morning. And, and so I chose quite intentionally to have a beautiful weekend with some new friends and we spent two days on the, at the beach flat in Florida. And it was just the most incredible, uh, temperature and this ocean and spectacular clouds like, just like this, you know, natural art, you know, moving artwork and pelicans diving and sacred ibis and warbles and I felt like I was in a National Geographic show. And every time I reclined my chair and felt suspended over these beautiful lapping waves, um, I just burst out laughing and just, I just, there was so much joy just for being there was, it was such a beautiful experience. And that was when I realized I was having gratitude gasm. Um, and so I'm wishing for all the listeners, um, to just be aware of those moments of pure joy and those moments of, you know, deep gratefulness, um, or deep gratitude. And. Yeah, and give it a name. It's a gratitude gasm. Because then we can create some more of them.

Speaker B: Yeah, I really like that. Um, yeah, I'm definitely going to use that word quite frequently from now on, so thanks for that. Sure. Sam. So where are you at right now? Right, I mean, so you're investing a lot in the business. You're getting a new investor on board. I mean you even mentioned having a GM M. Um, you're obviously scaling internationally. There's a lot going on. Right. So I think what are you, what are you focused on at the moment? What is, what is some of your challenges?

Speaker A: Challenges? Um, yeah, so ensuring that the team is very strong and stable to, for the, for the scale to come in and for the growth to come in. I don't want the team to wobble because then it's, then it's going to get messy and stressful. Um, so I mentioned earlier that Karina Governor is going to come in and just do a gap analysis and the finances and the operations and how the teams are cohesive together. Um, and then just. I've got this uh, list of my wish list. Um, so this week is being very intentional about my wish list and uh, just reactivating any conversations that have gone a little bit cold or just need a little bit of, um, a little bit of water planted on those seeds. Um, and yes, with the new investor, um, there will be a little bit more capital to put into, uh, making the warehouse more efficient. Uh, we want to put in a conveyor belt and an inkjet coating. And so the team aren't carrying trays of stock from inside the packing room to outside. And definitely marketing, um, there's a slight little bit of anxiety. You know, we've been this very little fish in a very big lake being the usa and there's another salt brand that's come on the market pretty hard and strong the last 18 months and they've obviously got a lot of money because they've paid gary brecker with 2.7 million followers. Um, and yeah, I can just see from their marketing they've got, they've got money behind and it's time for us to do a beautiful PR campaign. I have the agency, um, waiting and ready, but I think there's a little bit of work we need to do beforehand. So yeah, just putting, you know, slowly those pieces, I know what they are putting them into the right place so it can just kind of all fall into place. And um, so you Know that the podcast with Sean Michael, making sure that we've got stock now in case that spike comes. M. So again, that's always, you know, planning ahead. Um, and I'm busy planning potentially I want to go live or not live, but be in the States, um, uh, for five months next year, uh, from Dave Asprey's Biohacking conference, end of main Austin. Um, and then the last show I want to do is in December, um, which is a, um, yeah, also longevity, uh, functional medicine practitioner, uh, trade show that happens in Las Vegas middle of December. And I have a long list of shows that when I show up at two or three of those in a month and just keep, um, you know, these, they all have communities that overlap. And when that overlap happens and we seen there and seen there and seen there, then I know that I'm just gonna, you know, exponentially create the community. Um, and yeah, just get the story out more and do do a whole lot more podcasts. And so with the. This, um, mindful Agency. So, yes, Cameron, thank you, like, really appreciate the offer to be on here today because everyone hearing the story suddenly has that connection. We know that storytelling and people connecting to the founder of the brand gives the brand more depth and, uh, you know, they. When they've got more of the details. Um, so with the PR agency, I get 15 podcasts. Um, so I'm curious and excited to see who they're going to be with. And. Yeah, and just keep, yeah, keep showing up, keep doing my breath work in the morning, keep doing my breathing during the day. Okay, I need a moment. It's going too fast. It's too much. Like there's too many things to get to. Just breathe. That's okay. It will happen.

Speaker B: Awesome, Sam. Well, on that note, thank you as well, and, uh, meaningful gratitude. Thank, uh, you for being on the Founder Files. This has been, um, an awesome and very stimulating conversation. Um, to go from someone who's quite tired at the moment and you're. Even though this is remote, I actually would have loved to have done this in person because, uh, your energy is quite infectious. Finally, Sam, what is the one question that I haven't asked you that I should have asked you that you'd like to answer now?

Speaker A: Oh, what? I need to give you the question. Ah. Um, so through this last sort of year and a half journey that I've been on, which, like, um, real things to both my. My wise woman and my life coach that's been able to support me to value myself more, um, I'm looking forward to giving back to founders by curating some events, possibly with Marc Sham at the tryst. I'm in Joburg and here, um, just to plant seeds with founders that if you chose to do what you're doing, you believed in yourself. So just be aware of how much you're doubting yourself now, because you obviously did believe in yourself, otherwise you wouldn't have started what you're doing. So to lean more into and give more attention to the believing in yourself rather than the doubting. And also when it comes to finding business partners, um, is, and I think this is possibly a global, um, may I call it an issue, but it feels like money is given so much value and importance and I feel that founders, um, often aren't given the value of their courage, their genius, the sleepless nights, the time away from their family, the visionary, the hard work, the hours, literally the sweat that goes into building a business. Um, and I really feel like that needs to be given more value both from ourselves. It took me a long time to get to that point place. Um, but generally, um, I feel like, you know, founders, especially when one gets into that, um, sort of getting investors in, um, is just to, to yeah, dig deep into the, the, the, the knowingness of what it is that you're doing and, and, and, and keep building on your vision. Um, and, and yeah, just, ah, yeah, be kind, more kind to yourself. And if you believe in what you're doing, then I really believe that, um, you know, providence and God and all the elemental forces show up for you when, you know, you know, where it is that you're wanting to go.

Speaker B: I'm not going to try to help that. Sam, thank you for being on the founder files. This has, uh, been an awesome conversation and I'm leaving, uh, with, with gratitude and um, with an awareness in the back of my head about, uh, spotting my next gratitude gasm when it happens. Um, thank you for sharing your story.

Speaker A: Yeah, such a pleasure. Take care.