Global Upskilling: Where Do We All Fit” with James Herberson

Speaker A: Welcome to the Education and Empowerment Podcast. In this show, our hosts explore success and advancement through education by interviewing today's top leaders in the fields of education, business and technology in order to provide insight into what it really takes to succeed. This show is brought to you by Forstay, a SaaS enabled online booking marketplace for student and intern housing. Forestay provides turnkey all in one cloud based accommodation software solutions for colleges, universities and organizations. Learn more at offcampus.4stay.com and landlords.forstay.com all right, let's get into the show.

Speaker B: James Herbert sun is the co Founder and Chief People Officer of UH Bayswater Education, a social enterprise and international education that operates 10 year round colleges across the UK, France, Cyprus, Canada and South Africa. Bayswater offers a range of micro credentials in digital marketing, international business and customer service. For every student Bayswater teaches, they educate another from a disadvantaged background. With over 18 years of experience in the study abroad and education industry, James has held diverse roles including agent, service provider, language school owner and charity trustee. His journey began with learning Spanish at AH Melaka Instituto, inspiring him to found and run the language travel agency AnsweringLish. After selling the agency, he launched London Nest in 2010, addressing the need for high quality affordable student accommodation in London. London Nest served many leading language schools before James sold his stake in 2018. James has been Secretary of the Zimbabwe UM Rural Schools Development Program ZRSDP for 23 years. The charity has raised over £500,000 since 2001, funding the construction of an AIDS education center, classroom blocks, teacher accommodation and boreholes in eight rural Zimbabwean schools. In 2011, James formed a relay team that swam the English Channel raising more than £50,000. In addition to his role at AH Bayswater Education, James serves as Vice Chair on the Board of Trustees for English uk, the national association of English Language Centers. He served for six years on the Board of the British Educational Travel Association. James also organized a Guinness World record breaking event for the largest number of nationalities in a language lesson.

Speaker C: Welcome to Education and Empowerment Podcast. My name is Bak Tior and today we have an interesting topic to discuss. We're looking at study abroad sector and figuring out what's going on, where is the future like and what are some of the challenges that out there. In today's episode we going to learn about the uncertainties and we will highlight a very dear friend and inspirational leader that I have get to know and I aspire to be like him and hopefully we're going to learn a lot from this episode. So without further Ado, please help me welcome James. James, you know, your work in international education and the world of study abroad is so inspiring. I can't wait to unpack so many stories and so many inspirational things that you've done in your past. Welcome to our episode.

Speaker D: Great, thank you very much. Uh, the invitation, it's a real honor to be here and I've seen some of your previous guests on the podcast before, so, yeah, it's a real honor. So thank you. Thank you for this invitation.

Speaker C: Excellent. Excellent. So, James, you know, your work in international education dates back to the number of different leadership positions you hold with different boards, such as, you know, English usa sorry, English uk. You know, you've done work through, you know, accommodation. You've actually done work in launching, you know, your own social enterprise where you are, you know, the chief people officer as well as the founder. Tell us more about, uh, your journey. How did you get started?

Speaker D: In many ways, I think I need to start back at the beginning, which was for me spending four and a half months when I was 18, 19 on the Costel Sol in Malaga. And I have to say it was a life changing experience for me. I was terrible at learning languages at school. I Learned French about 7, 8 years and I never saw the value in it at that time. And yeah, I went just before going to university and I suddenly realized, wow, I can speak to people from all over the world in a different language. I can make friends. And it really, yeah, opened my eyes, I guess, to the, to the rest of the world. And so that experience, that time I had there and the experience I've had as a result of it, I mean, I've been lucky enough to go to a wedding, for example, in Brazil. I've been to Switzerland, I've been to America, I've been to Denmark to see friends that I made for my time there. And yeah, that's a friendship and bond. Uh, Bayswater. We often talk about people being like forever connected and I can certainly feel that myself. So that was really how my, my journey and it's always having that kind of contrasting, uh, experience of really not enjoying learning a language when I was at school to then living and breathing it in, studying abroad, being open to ideas, set me on this pathway. And so I always knew I come from a family of entrepreneurs. My mother started her own employment agency. My father was successful in business. And so I always knew that I wanted to go into, into business and to start in business. And it just seemed logical, having later gone to live in again for a couple of Years up in Madrid, in the, uh, David Beckham era, when he was in Real Madrid, it all coincided. I came back home and, yeah, I want to start my own business to essentially help other people have a similar experience to me. And I started up an agency, which is called answeringlish, which I ran for three or four years. I then realized accommodation was one of the biggest challenges that people face. It wasn't always necessarily finding a school, it was finding a place to stay. And so I co founded and ran London Nest with a business partner. And after six, seven years, yeah, I just realized that perhaps I was seeking something with a little bit more purpose in life. I was just selling bums in beds, effectively, right? And I had a meeting of mines with Stefan, who is the CEO and co founder of Bayswater, where we wanted to have a global upskilling business that was based in countries around the world and essentially was answering the question a lot of people have, like, what next in their life, whether they want to go on to study, whether they go, go into the world of work, the one that also contributed to society, because I'd seen the impact it had on my life. And therefore we want to create a virtuous circle to help people from less privileged or disadvantaged backgrounds. And so we set up Bayswater as a social enterprise. And so we have a one for one initiative whereby part of the revenue from every student that comes to Southus goes towards helping people around the world. And as a result of that, we have projects we support in Colombia, in Brazil, in Jordan, and more recently in Mexico. And, yeah, it's been an amazing time, not just focusing on the students that come to solus, but also to help people to have opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have had.

Speaker C: That's incredible. And again, social, uh, enterprise. I learned About Social Enterprise 15 years ago myself in graduate school. And prior to that, I didn't have a name for it. You know, I said I wanted to have a successful business, but I want this to have, you know, like, people to be actually happy. And, you know, back then when I was growing up, well, you either do business or you keep people happy. You know, you can combine too. But eventually I realized that there is actually a way to do it, and it's social enterprise. So I greatly admire, you know, your union with Stefan and the work that you're doing, you know, throughout the world. I want to take us back a little bit, you know, for the purposes of our, you know, audience, to understand the value of, you know, global upskilling and, you know, upskilling, uh, Business in general. So what's going on? Why is it important, you know, why do people need to care about, you know, upgrading their skills? Are there, you know, specific, you know, factors to that? Maybe you can highlight a few stories and cases that, you know, help transform people's lives. Tell us more.

Speaker D: I think you can look at it on an individual's level and you can look at it uh, on a sort of more macro level level as well. What's very clear for employers and um, countries and um, businesses is that people not only uh, leave school and indeed university with an education that is, that is challenging to them. Right. Uh, that is bl for them to prove that they can study in depth a particular topic. And of course that may well have very specific vocational benefits.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: But also now more and more and more than ever, I think before, people are looking for those soft skills that are of course so, so difficult and challenging to acquire.

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker D: And I think when you look at the origins of the study abroad sector, but also the origins going back, you know, centuries of when there were grand tours around Europe when people would maybe involving uh, like say, going off to work in different countries around the world to work for a particular company or affiliate and so on, or in tourism. If you take all of those kind of global trends that been happening over uh, centuries now, the movement of people, education and travel are two of life's greatest adventures.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker D: In those adventures in terms of learning, in terms of self discovery, in terms of gaining confidence, in terms of challenging yourself, in terms of putting yourself in a situation, study abroad can really help to round someone to give some of the skills they wouldn't otherwise have had. And so I think this, this, this need and desire for upskilling is driven as much from the country, from the employer of wanting to have a workforce that is very able and has the capacity to flex and has the resilience and has the confidence to take up uh, you know, serious challenges that the world faces. Right. And I think it also comes from the individual that there's something innate in us that uh, desire to learn, to explore, etc. And so many ways this upskilling trend is the combination of those two m coming together.

Speaker C: That's great. I think something important that you mentioned there is it's also on individual level as well as on sort of maybe even like the national or the regional level, you know, as well. And then, you know, once, uh, things like, you know, global pandemic happens, you realize that it's not just regional, it's actually global. Like you need to be able to have a better workforce and you need to be able to, you know, focus on, you know, the skills that are going to be important, let alone the artificial intelligence and how that's actually impacting, you know, our decision making. But that's great. And I think where we need to unpack this a little bit more perhaps is going to be in understanding the trends in study abroad than youth travel. What challenges do you see then, you know, facing the sector? I mean, is it the instability, is it like internal factors or is it, you know, external factors? What's your vision on that?

Speaker D: I think our sectors always face real challenges that come from outside, should we say, so global conflicts, pandemics, uh, ash clouds, sars. If you go back each decade, there's always oil crises, etc, so there's always big world global events that will affect our sector and will impact people and their capacity to travel. Well, I think if we take that to one side, not in any way belittle that. Uh, right. Probably the biggest challenge I think is facing is that there is a kind of paradox going on whereby in most countries in, in the world there is a desire to increase the number of people that are going into further education and there is an interdependence and inter reliance on international students making up a significant portion of, of those students that are studying in institutions and the impact that that can have and the perceived impact that that can have on other parts of the economies. Right. And so as a result, at certain times, and you've seen this now recently in Australia, you've seen it only at the start of this year in, in Canada, probably for the last 10 years in the UK. Right, whereby governments can set very ambitious goals to increase the number of international students because they do recognize the value that it has and a conflicting goal where unfortunately international education is perceived to be part of immigration, which becomes a political football. And I think that is a, a real conflict that currently exists globally and the way in which each country resolves that has a big impact on the success of the sector in those countries. Another part linked to that, which again goes back to what people are looking for. People are looking for real world experience. So when the pandemic hit, it was very apparent that people did not want to spend their entire days learning online. There is definitely a role for online learning, there's no doubt about that, perhaps in hybrid models, but the route is young people want experiences, they want to be in a classroom with other people learning. And we know from completion rates and success rates there's A lot of data to support those arguments. So people want to go abroad, people want to have those experiences whilst at the same time there are factors that uh, are preventing them from doing that and they want to be able to work and have the opportunity, uh, at the same time that countries are um, narrowing in many cases. And we've seen it, I mean this is probably about 10 years ago now in the UK, but when work rights were taken away for some of the students that were more involved in the language sector in the uk, for example, whole markets dried up over overnight.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: And these were not necessarily people that had ambitions or plans to stay for years or years. They were normally just a, wanting to supplement their income. I'm sorry, that their supplement, you know, basically their spending power when they were in the country and so on, because they're young people, they want to go out, they want to explore the whole of the country. But B, probably really important is that they wanted to come back home, um, with more experience than when they left. And actually that mix of being abroad, being confident, be able to communicate in another language whilst gaining real practical experience that will then help them to differentiate themselves or to get them to the next stage where that stage is a very formidable thing. And if, if progressively come countries are making it more and more difficult to get that experience, it narrows our sector. So I think that those, those are the main challenges we're facing.

Speaker C: That's great. And so let's unpack that in the sort of auspices of, you know, your organization. I mean have you done any, you know, innovation at Bayswater or you know, any types of adaptations or like the first discoveries of, you know, how that may actually play out?

Speaker D: Yeah. So when Bayswater first started, so it was end of 2017, 2018 is when we acquired our first school in London. Um, Steph and I always remarked at the time is that the world didn't need another school in London at that time already the business was very saturated and so we knew that we had to differentiate ourselves. And so going back then we understood that there was a uh, trend whereby uh, many students did not want to spend tens of thousands of pounds to do sign up to a three year degree program or to doing a master's and so on. Yet at the same time they wanted to add skills to their cv. Mhm. They wanted to have it in something that was certified by an organization that was globally recognized. Right. And they wanted to, to have that chance to learn about a very specific topic for a short period of time. So we started what we at the time called our professional courses, but now we more refer to micro credentials, uh, programs in digital marketing. Working with the Digital Marketing Institute, had fashion courses and um, more recently we've evolved our offering into customer service, international business.

Speaker C: That's incredible.

Speaker D: And it's certainly true that it doesn't really matter necessarily what course you're looking for. What we've really, the space we've gone into is if you're learning English in Liverpool or you're learning French in Paris or you're doing digital marketing in Brighton, say. All of our courses have an element that incorporates AI and digital literacy, right. Incorporates making a presentation, incorporates communicating more, more effectively, uh, incorporates critical thinking because those are the skills that are going to make the difference when people go back to their home countries and get a job and can differentiate themselves. So that was really our ah, kind of origin going back to uh, early uh 2018 to have these, these programs. And we can see now there is a growing demand for short courses. There's a demand to be able to say that you studied abroad but not to commit to tens of thousands of pounds that you'll then have as, as debt. And it's. Yeah, it just seems that this is just a natural flow or evolution of the, of the sector.

Speaker C: That's amazing. You know what inspires me is the fact that, you know, micro credentials and micro learning is the opportunity to resolve some of those challenges and study abroad that we addressed. Right. Because of the border, because of the different, you know, costs involved. It reminds me a course I took with Richard Elmore as a professor at Harvard about the modes of learning, you know, how people learn basically. And you know, there is the hierarchical, there is the distributed learning and it kind of showcases that again some people prefer to learn in class, some people prefer to learn outside of class. So there's actually great value and importance in micro credentials. Do you mind maybe highlighting how micro credentials could potentially help with the, you know, rapidly changing work workforce demands in the marketplace. What do you see there?

Speaker D: So one of the things I find fascinating because we do a lot of work with students with work placement that may come for example in UK with youth mobility schemes. So I see a lot of cvs, right. And one of the things I find so funny when I do some work with the students on how they can present themselves better to give themselves the best chance of being invited for an interview, right. Is that there's definitely this prevalence of people self evaluating their levels and I see like a 23 year old that gives themselves 9 out of 10 for empathy. Wow. I uh, guess there's something so slightly amusing. And I don't mean to begrudge anyone. I'm sure There are many 23 year olds out there, right. Nine out of ten. But this idea that you can just self evaluate, it's a bit like hyperbole. Yeah. The best way to demonstrate to people your successes with credibility, with statistics, with facts, with achievements, not to just tell everyone how good you are. And I think this is real crux of it. M Before, one of the great values of going to university was to demonstrate that you'd studied further education.

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker D: One of the great values was the institution that you went to. What we're seeing now is that this association or a company that you went to work for as well in the same way. Mhm. It's a trend that exists. But I think the challenge is the fact, um, that of course as people work for smaller businesses in different countries and you can work all around the world. Right. Or because people now go to different even further afield that may be a smaller, narrower group of institutions or companies. So therefore using those items becomes progressively more challenging.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: So you need to be able to hang your hook or to be able to demonstrate. And so just to self evaluate and to say, oh, I'm nine out of ten or something is not enough. You need to do something in the same way as before to put yourself on an institution. Right. Uh, to demonstrate how you've got, whether for example doing a LinkedIn course or a Google course and so on. In the same way as if you're going to study abroad, you need to have an institution you've gone to. You uh, need to have something that's accredited and you need to have something that demonstrates real value that employers can then either look up or more likely in the interview you can explain what went well, what didn't go well, how you were challenged, what you learned from it. Because that's what employers want to hear. And I think that is what people are looking for.

Speaker C: That's great. So let's reverse that for a moment. How can, you know, institutions of higher education and maybe companies incorporate the MICRA credentials into the programs to make themselves more attractive to the students. Give us a few tips I guess, as to what you've seen to be working really well with some of the institutions.

Speaker D: Sure. One thing I'm working on a lot at the moment is actually this idea of turning the model a little bit on its head because what we've seen with global brands. Mhm. So I'm talking about the business, I'll come on to education as well.

Speaker C: Sure.

Speaker D: But global brands that are expanding to different countries around the world. One of the hardest things for people to export or hardest things for people to replicate around the world are global values or the values of the, of the company. And so what we're seeing is this, this, this again opportunity is where institutions, particularly in the, say the luxury hospitality sector, that they want to align themselves with, um, education institutions. So further up the chain, should we sail further up the stream? There is an alignment between the course that people are doing and the job in which people are going onto. Now of course this is not something new. I mean look at the world of medicine, training, hospitals, etc, there's been, you know, complete alignment before between the study that people have been doing, the vocational skills they've gained in the process and then going on to work for them. And that applies, you know, as much to courses like medicine as it could do to very technical skills jobs as well. But what I'm seeing is this alignment in lots of different sectors where people want to work with educational institutions because they want to be able to guarantee as much as possible or prove the return on investment of if you're going to invest $50,000 or more in two, three years or three years of your life, depending on that, you're going to get that payback in a job at the end. And so I think that the, again, the micro credentials is really this kind of holistic thinking of joining up, uh, what employers want, what the skills they're looking for, with what the students themselves need to be able to get that job. And when that all marries together, then you've got a very successful program. So I think that that's certainly one area that's great. People. Yeah, aligning uh, more than, more than before. And I think what we're going to see more and more is that this could get more and more niche. So you've got very specific courses and very specific outcomes. You know, I know when I went to university I did an economics degree. Uh, yes, of course you could go on to be an economist, but it's quite normal that you could go into a whole array of jobs. I think more and more with the micro credentials, you're giving people very specific opportunities to get the skills they need to be able to do jobs that maybe they didn't have open to them before.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: No, that's great.

Speaker C: And the example that you brought is, you know, truly stands out. I think it kind of paints the picture to, you know, uh, what's gonna the future be like, you know, like the educational travel and you know, youth travel and you know, future of sort of study abroad. There's ton of uncertainty. Right. You know, we always get impacted by different factors, you know, social, economical, you know. But what's clear is that you know, despite, you know, all these challenges, you know, leaders like yourself and entrepreneurs like yourself are coming up with different models to make things work. I wonder if you can potentially expand on uh, you know, the idea of the, the innovations and the models that will help define maybe the next 10 years. Like what do you see being the type of maybe innovations and models that you know, are going to be prevailing there? What's going to be for you know, the, the industry in the times of uncertainty?

Speaker D: Very good question. This is sort of the crystal ball gazing moment. M. Yeah, I think new markets are definitely going to open up. I think that's the direction of travel and we've seen that. I don't think international education is anyway going to diminish in importance. However, I do think there will be turbulence as we've seen. And so I think we have a duty as citizens to always encourage our governments to have forward thinking policies and not get caught up like I said earlier in the, in the podcast about immigration, which is something that could send us off course or at least temporarily. Mhm. I do think more and more this idea about the work experience and so it's not just about necessarily going to do an internship, but certainly we've seen for example organizing company visits, right. So that people can say I've gone to sea and I've looked at different sectors and so on, or inviting experts into the college whereby uh, they can learn about something that they would never otherwise have that opportunity to do. So that real kind of opening eye part to the world of work, I would say they ah, are amongst many of the trends we ourselves also have introduced. Again coming back to this credibility piece, opportunities for students to demonstrate the volunteering that they've done, opportunities through a badge system, opportunities where they can show how they're more employable. Um, opportunities where they can demonstrate the skills. So this kind of holistic learning that often I think in many ways was taken for grant granted. You know, we always say that we, we might have been selling uh, a language course for example. What people really buying was this experience abroad that was, you know, opening their minds. I think now breaking that down and people being able to talk confidently about all the elements that they learn and having an array of skills rather than just focusing on the Technical skills, but also looking at those array of the softer skills is what I see happening. And I just sincerely hope that we will see the time where countries really can work in reciprocal agreements. I've just noticed like India and France have signed an agreement where they, I think they're expecting 20, 20, maybe even 30,000 students to study in France and so on. So countries can collaborate very much together.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker D: Because was it's such an amazing experience and you know, the relationship you can have. I mean I had this a little bit with Beta, the British Education Travel association, right. They did an economic study and I think like the value to Britain is in incredible figure like 27 billion. I think of the incredible of the sector. There is such a sort of ecosystem of companies and people that rely on, on our sector.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: But what is so fascinating is that this relationship that you can create with a country. And so I think where, where countries are collaborating together, they're forging a deep relationship that goes back many, in many ways to the kind of hippie ideals when our sector was created in this post World War II era and so on, that we can forge these relationships between countries, that there are bonds and when people say, oh, I studied in Hastings or in Bournemouth or Liverpool and so, and they experience the people that they met, that is an amazing thing. And we're lucky enough to be in the world of bottling that and selling it to the, to the world.

Speaker C: Right. That's incredible. I had a recent conversation with uh, another educator and we were talking about the importance of, you know, artificial intelligence. And I think the question came up, will artificial intelligence actually take away or uh, replace the educators? And you know, it's scary at the same time, but I feel like, you know, the educators are going to, going to be there as long as they can stay competitive, as long as they can, you know, design right programs to prepare their students. Because again, artificial intelligence is not going to replace. But if, you know, the educators are not doing well, then, you know, students will be turning to artificial intelligence and generative AI to ask for questions and answers. Do you think you can share some piece of wisdom for the educators that are designing the next level of international education programs and maybe shed some light into that topic a little bit. How can they design better programs? Considering the crystal ball effect of, you know, moving into the future? What can they do better?

Speaker D: Well, I think it's all very fascinating because in some ways you've had two things that have happened because we talk, we're actually sort of talking about societal changes as well, aren't we in reality. So you've had a global epidemic pandemic that has affected so much of the way in which we work, the way in which we interact and um, the fact that we've realized a bit like this conversation now. There you are in Washington D.C. and I'm not in Lapland, as you might think from my background, but I'm in London. The way in which we live and the way in which we work and the way in which we study has really been. Yeah, jumbled up and thrown up and we're all trying to work out how that works in the future. Whereas at the same time you've had this massive technological innovation with, with AI. I think it just reinforces. Probably the biggest thing we need to consider is it reinforces the fact that when people talked about 10, 15, 20 years ago, like the global war of talent, right. In reality, the, the opportunity to work for a business in another country was limited to the, your capacity to be able to travel to that country and to work in that country. So there was an economic element to it and there was a border part to it. Right now the reality is that you can have a team all around the world. Speaking for Bayswater, we have a sales team that's based in country in 20 different countries. I have people from 35, 40 different nationalities working for, for Bayswater.

Speaker C: That's incredible.

Speaker D: Previously that relied on global migration or establishing an office or an agency in another place. Now, now it's so much easier, right? So we need to adapt and we need to demonstrate how we add value. And so it's made it easier for companies to work across border. But also at the same time we know that society has shown that we are social beings. We do like to be in offices, we do like to study in, in physical places. And so I think we're just trying to navigate. What does that, um, look like? Clearly, I think the most effective way is to create a, you know, to build relationships with people is so much easier to be done face to face. And so I think there will always be this element of people traveling to an institution to, to learn. But those, those that can do the courses quicker, right, need to have degree programs for three years. Can we use flip classroom, whereby you've got a platform where all the resources are available to you, etc, uh, tailoring using AI in particular to be able to work on the areas that someone found particularly challenging. I think the quality of education can certainly go up and improve and we can do things quicker and more, more effectively than perhaps Before.

Speaker C: That's incredible. James. This is quite inspirational. As we kind of conclude our episode, I was going to ask for a, uh, few takeaways as a summary for our listeners out there. And what I'm hearing from you is that although there are challenges and uncertainty in study abroad, they're actually solutions and models that can help accelerate learning. And you brought a good example of micro learning and micro credentials and how Bayswater is, you know, actually providing that platform, you know, for others. You've also expanded on the different factors impacting, you know, and students can, you know, navigate those challenges. If there are people out there who would like to connect and learn more about the uh, work that you're doing, what's the best way to find you?

Speaker D: Well, I think the best way to find Bayswater on, on our uh, website, Bayswater ac. But I'd be very happy to be either followed or connect with me on um, on um, linked in. I do like to post and share up, uh, some thoughts on both the sector and how we can evolve as an industry and so on. So that would probably be one of the easiest ways.

Speaker C: That's great, James. Thank you so much. Was there anything else you wanted to add before we wrap this episode up?

Speaker D: Well, I just want to say two things. One, first of all, thank you very much for the invitation to come on the podcast with forsay today. I mean it's absolutely great to work with you and partner with you and I've always enjoyed the times we've met up at various different global education fairs around the world and is that time of year. So however people are celebrating. Just wanted to wish you and everyone some great downtime with their uh, with their families and to have some qualitime rest because I think 2025 is going to be a very exciting year ahead for, for many of us.

Speaker C: Excellent, James. Thank you so much. We enjoyed learning from you and I hope that the listeners will see the same excitement that I've seen and will learn a lot and they will set the 2025 for better outcomes for the programs and uh, for the institutions. Once again, thank you so much for listening to Education and Empowerment podcast. This was your host, Bakira Soev. This episode is sponsored by For Stay and until next episode, see you again.

Speaker A: We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the education and Empowerment podcast. This show is brought to you by Forstay, a SaaS enabled online booking marketplace for student and intern housing. Forestay provides turnkey all in one cloud based accommodation software solutions for colleges, universities and organizations. Learn more at offcampus, Forestay. Com and Landlords. Forestay. Com.