AI, Hiring and Career-Ready Graduates with Shalei Simms, Ph.D. (SUNY Old Westbury)

Foreign. Welcome to the Turn One Studio podcast. I'm Elliot Custodio with Turn One Studio, and here we speak with local business professionals. Today's guest, Dr. Shalei Sims. Good morning. The School of Business at SUNY Old Westbury. Good morning. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming. I'm very excited. Oh, me too. So we've had a few conversations on the podcast with different folks in education, and I always find that interesting. I'm a few years removed from education, but one of the common topics whenever we have these business conversations often involves, well, what's next? What's next when it comes to hiring the next generation, etc. So I'm very excited because you're from the School of Business. So we should have some interesting chats today. First things first. Sunil Westbury School of Business. What is that? What's that all about? So school started. We're actually celebrating our 50th anniversary this year. So we've been doing this for quite a while now and really it's been a place where we focus on access for students. So really looking at students who come from all walks of life. We are very diverse population who are very scrappy and really are looking at how can education take them to the next level in their lives and how can it help them support their families, how can it introduce them to new ways of doing things and really be how they can be a pillar in their communities through this mechanism? Excellent. Are you finding a lot of them are inspired to be an entrepreneur or leaning more towards a employee in a corporation? You get both. You get both. I think there's sometimes a tendency to lean towards being in a corporation because it provides, at least theoretically, a sense of security, it has a more direct path. But then when they get there, they find, especially as time has gone on, that entrepreneurship really becomes more and more attractive. Or I've also found, because I taught the entrepreneurship class before I moved into administration, that their families had businesses and that they were sending their children to school to be able to kind of shore up with the kinds of things they were doing in their businesses and then they were going to go back in to work for their family companies. And so. And that ranged from all kinds of, like, if we think about ethnic entrepreneurship, for example, this was a way for them to support their families and. But they saw education as a path for their children and so they sent them to school, they got into entrepreneurship even more, and then they went back to their families to put it in action. That's interesting. I would Imagine. Well, you're probably seeing a wide range of experiences with these kids. Right. Because sometimes when you think of entrepreneurship and you've never done it before, it can be very eye opening. But if they've watched their family go through that, I guess if they're still interested, then it was a positive experience for them. Maybe this is a naive question. If folks want to get involved in the school of business, is this something they can do right out of high school or is this more of a graduate or later into their college experience so they can do it right out of high school? So we are technically an upper division program. So you have to have a certain number of credits to actually be part of the school of business in particular. But there's all the prerequisite classes, so the accountant classes, economics, things like that, that you would take right from the gate. And so if you have an interest in doing so, you would apply to the school, let the application process through that know what your interests and intentions are, that it would be business and you would start those classes right away. Interesting. Is there a specific area of the curriculum where you find most kids find more challenging? Quantitative. Okay, that's really been where. Because people come in thinking that that is the enemy. Right. Okay. And so they don't think about it as another language that they will learn to speak and that it will help them figure out another perspective on the kinds of things that they're doing. And so they're just trepidatious. And is it the fear of shining a light on a deficiency that they think they have? They might not even have the deficiency. Yeah. Okay. So they're entering fearful before they even know that this is something that they can tackle. And if you get the right person in front of the classroom, the right professor can really show you that this is just another language and that you are going to be able to use it. And you really do have the aptitude from the get go to be able to be successful at it. But that's where people, a lot of students, especially because we have a wide range of age groups as well, you'll find that students, especially students who are coming back to school, might be even more fearful. They wait to the last minute to take the quantitative classes and then they realize that their fear was sometimes unfounded. That's interesting. Just from a marketing agency perspective, quantifying the success of a program is important. Sometimes it feels impossible. Right. There are some intangibles there. The art side versus the science side of marketing. And sometimes it's difficult to convey that to a client, are you seeing trends in certain niches among the students or where they're showing interest? So our school has definitely developed a reputation on the accounting side and really because that has been where one, it's a very clear path, two, we've been able to graduate successful people who are then able to look back at Old Westbury, they're great alum, they come back, they hire our students. And so when you think about access education, it's a full circle opportunity. And so that has just garnered more and more attraction. As a result, we are looking to grow the program. So finance as a discipline is something that is still attractive to people. That's an area that we want to grow. We've had new programs. So if you think about the industry on Long island, healthcare has been a significant one for us. And so we started a master's in healthcare management just this year. We're having our first graduating class coming up next week. So that's been very exciting. And the most exciting part about that is that it actually took off far more than we thought it was going to. We've had quite a bit of interest. We have a full class that was coming in that is about to graduate and there's still interest that's going on. So that's really been a turn for us that we're glad that we took. Why do you think that is? I think people are looking for a place where they feel they're going to be seen, they're going to be heard and they're going to get the type of education that they want. It's not that they're not other programs on Long island, but I do think that there is something special about Old Westbury that once the doors are open for a certain disciplines that people want to walk right in. When it comes to health care, is it a logical career progression to go from that to administration or is that just a. Oh, it is, yeah. Okay. I mean, and it's. I. It's twofold, right. I think for one side it's boots on the ground. It is a very challenging profession. It is very taxing on the body. Right. There have been talked about liken it to the types of benefits that police and corrections get because of the type of physicality that nurses require. And so you have those who want longer careers who look at administration and getting a degree and that allows them to prolong what they want to do and gives them another entree into the industry. And so that's where we have come in to be of support that's excellent. I would imagine if you've spent time as a nurse and then you move to administration, you really understand the business from the bottom to the top. That makes a lot of sense. How are you seeing AI affect the curriculum? I know you mentioned accounting and I know that that is one of the stronger areas where AI data and pattern recognition could be successful. So I mean, like every other industry, it's clearly a disruptor and good, bad or indifferent, we all are figuring out exactly what that means. And so we see ways in which we are incorporating it into what we do. We're making sure that faculty are trained on the different platforms so that they are then educated in how they are shifting the curriculum. There's. We are not the same knowledge industry that we were. Knowledge is now a commodity. And so we are working on ways to figure out just how we are re emphasizing that it is a tool that students need to know that the tool can off. Can be unpredictable at times, that you need to understand how you challenge it, how you use it, how it allows you to further what your intentions are. Whatever industry you're in after that, that that's your focus on how your information is coupling with how you're using the tool in order to further your intentions. When it comes to sentiment, I guess among the incoming student body, are they bullish or bearish? Are they, are they seeing AI as a threat to their potential occupation or are they excited to have access to this tool? I know for it's both people later in their career, it's a mixed bag. It's both. It is both. I mean, if you are starting out right now, it is very difficult because businesses are trying to figure out how they're using AI. They have been reticent to hire entry level people. And is that because the assumption is AI is the entry level person? Yes. Okay, right. And so there's. Without understanding what the, what the outcome will be from those decisions, businesses are waiting, right? They're waiting to see what's the best way we can operate efficiently and then hire around that. And so students are nervous about what that means. But by the same token, they recognize that they have to be part of the process. They have to be on the ride to learn what's going on and not wait to see. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. But you also can't sit and do nothing and have things happen to you. You have to be part of what is going on in the world. Learn everything that you can be, have, be in relationship. Because one of the things that we see that has been missing a lot, especially from COVID is is relationship building. All the soft skills that come with how you navigate your life from now to the end of time. Right. And that you still need to focus on those things. You need to be able to understand how I use this tool here. I have this knowledge here, I have these relationships here. And that that builds an entire platform on how you're going to navigate your career and your life in general. How has that impacted the hiring process post graduation? Because I guess when they graduate, they are by default entry level. Right. I mean, it's a challenge, right? It's definitely. You've seen that where hiring is maybe slowed down a bit. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You see it more in some industries more than others. I mean, thankfully, Long island is definitely a pool of smaller businesses. And so not everybody's familiar with the tools and not all using them in the same way. So they want students that are coming in with that knowledge base to bring to their companies. Right. And so you do see that. But on, for larger industries, it's a little more of a challenge to get in. And we're all just trying to figure it out. We all, thankfully, we have, we have expertise, we have patience, we don't panic right away. And so that allows us to really look at what the landscape is, to figure out what's the best way to that we can support our students through that. And by supporting our students support industry. Excellent. So speaking of the soft skills and social interaction, I guess we'd call it stereotypically, if you will, the current generation in college, the concern has been they grew up with devices. They do a lot of stuff without that human interaction. Are you seeing that? And is there anything in place academically to and in fact teach them how to be social? There is more of a focus on how to teach them how to be social, but you also have to have. You just have to be intentional about where and how students engage. And that has to be a full service effort. So in the classroom, talking about ways in which we communicate, when all the classes have presentations at the end. So in that regard, they're learning how to speak, keep eye contact, shake hands, all of those kinds of things. But then on the other side, you also have to have where are gathering spaces where we allowing students to just naturally form those types of relationships, because that is where the real lesson is going to be and how they develop the skill. Once you have been intentional about those kinds of connections being Made. And there's lots of research on how spaces should be designed for that to happen, that that's where coupled with what they're doing in the classroom, that's where it'll really take hold and you'll see it in practice. Are they generally receptive or resistant? Students are receptive. I mean, they don't know what they don't know, but when they get it, they're better off and they know it. Right. And so we can't be afraid of the fact that if students are uncomfortable in the beginning, that that reduces our charge of what we need to do. It's okay for a student to be uncomfortable. That's fine, as long as you're not uncomfortable on the other side. Because the discomfort in the beginning is where the challenge comes in. In our role as the professionals is to make sure that you are challenged the way you need to be, but that we provide the support so that it carries you through, so that you know you can meet any given challenge and you take that skill set with you. When you move from Old Westbury. Fantastic. So for any business owners watching, what should they know about the students coming out of your school? So our students are special. They're special. How did I know you were going to say that? Well, I mean, everybody thinks their students are special, but I think what differentiates ours is that many of them have stories outside that have brought them to Old Westbury. And you're talking about. Then you come on campus and you have a group of people who are similar than students in that they are. They're inventive. They are. I mean, scrappy is overused, but it is apropos here. And. And that they have a certain type of drive that keeps them coming to class every day. And that is the kind of employee you will get when a student leaves a Westbury. Somebody who. Exactly. Right. It is somebody who is coming to work, knows that they have other reasons to do so besides their own personal benefit, and as a result carries that with them wherever they go. And. And so when we have. And you talk about students who don't have everything coming in. Okay. Right. And so there's certain things, like as an example, the difference between my children and me, my parents did not drive. And so there are things about driving that, because I wasn't in a car, were not automatic for me. Right. Those are the kind our students come in. There's certain lessons that you get that for a lot of our students are not automatic. And so they're learning them when they come through the door at Old Westbury. But when they leave, they are transformed. Yeah. And those are the type of employees that businesses on Long island will get. Students who came in with intention and have been transformed by the process and when they graduate, are. Are ready for you to just really work with them to take over what you need to do. That's fantastic. How did you get into this? What was life before Dean? Life before deaning was. I mean, it was interesting. The real reason I came to be in the school of business in particular is that because when I went to college, I was a psychology and sociology major. I went to a traditional New England liberal arts school. I got to do all the things in terms of being exposed to a wealth of literature and opportunities, and it was a great experience. This is not where I thought I'd wind up fast forward trying to figure out where my career would be. I met two women that told me about an organization called the PhD Project. And that organization was designed to encourage people of color in particular to get their PhDs in business. And I went to one of their recruiting conferences and I just was. It was like just a cupid zap. Right, right. And they got me right where I was like, this is where I want to be. I was trying to figure out how to put the pieces together. I. And it was business. It was figuring out how to couple my interest in human behavior with my understanding of what was going on in industry and figuring out, oh, this is how I can put those things together. I wound up getting my doctorate in organizational management. I came to Old Westbury because, one, a Brooklynite and this was near to home, and two, because I knew so many people for whom their lives were changed by going to Old Westbury. And so it just seemed like a fitting place for me to be. And it has been a great experience since then. Excellent. So I'm not going to ask you to predict the future, but what would you like to see change in, say, the next two, three to five years at your school in your position? So what I would like to see change at school is that sometimes people who get the least, who need the most, get the least. And I would really like attention to be paid to the fact that our students have a lot of needs in order to be successful going. And we're talking very basic. We have students who struggle with transportation. We have students who struggle with child care. We have students who just have other really pertinent things that they must focus on that challenges them to just focus on their academics. And so any kind of help in that makes a difference. So supporting with internships, supporting with fundraising efforts or all kinds of ways in which that can happen, I would love to see that grow as a result. Well, I know you guys are part of the SUNY system. Are there mechanisms in that system to help with some of that? There are. So being part of the system has definitely been a benefit. Right. But it's still one pot. Okay. And it's got to be divided by what, like 16 schools or something? No, there's 64 campuses. I was way off on that one. 64. My goodness. It is the largest public system in the country. If not, if it's second to one of the ones in California, we are at the top. Big deal. It's a huge system. It is a very well oiled machine, has its challenges. It's a public entity. And so all the things that come with that, trying to navigate all kinds of stakeholders that you have to please. Sure, but. So that has been, I think, a benefit for Old Westbury. But by the same token, all the campuses are individual. And so you still have to manage what you do, manage how you bring in resources. You cannot control tuition costs. So it is what it is. And so that can present challenges for some campuses. And so all efforts that can come in to help Old Westbury just have additional resources to help the students is great. So we're having, for example, it's our 50th anniversary. I mentioned that earlier. We're having a golf outing. I was going to ask you about that. Yes, we are looking forward to that. The team has been hard at work so that our inaugural outing will be a success. We will at least have a good time. You know, I'm in that. I'm part of a foursome. I didn't realize it was the inaugural, so. And really it is a huge deal. And really you're talking about a very small team. Thank you, team. A very small team that is doing everything that they can to make sure that this happens and that the story of the golf alley is the story of Old Westbury in general. It's lots of pockets of very small teams just getting the most bang out of their experience to make sure that the students are supported, are the students involved in the golf. So we'll have students there, we'll have students from the golf team to participate and yeah, it'll be. It'll be a great time. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Looking forward to it. What do you like to do for fun? What's life outside of school? What do I like to do for fun. I do. I'm a social person. Okay, I can see that. Yeah. So I. I enjoy. Just enjoy family time. I enjoy. I belong to a few organizations, so I do. Like. I'm a member of Delta Sigma Theta, so it is both social and social service oriented. So for example, we're having a book fair this Sunday. So that allows me to get my community engagement excitement going. And then I just like to hang out with family and friends. I like to learn new things. That's part of how we're having the golf island because I learned to pick up golf and I have loved it. So when I had Nancy come on to be somebody who knew how to put on events, and the fact that I like golf, the fact that we have people that enjoy it, that has allowed me to couple the things that I like with the needs for the university. Very cool. I'm new at golf myself, so I. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's new who's going to be participating in this. Yeah, no, this is for all levels of participation. Excellent. So before we wrap up, how can folks reach out to learn more? So to reach us, you can just contact www.oldwestbury.edu. you'll have a wealth of information to tell you about the school and the school of business in particular. Fantastic. Dr. Sims, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure. Real pleas.