Purpose-Driven Entrepreneurship: Chekesha Kidd on Funding Innovation in the Care Economy

Speaker A: Welcome.

Speaker B: We kind of just dive. Dive right in. And I'm excited to be able to ask you some questions, because I look at what you're doing and the impact, you know, you're making, I feel. I felt like as our baby boomers get older and older, the market is changing. Um, but it has changed for, like, the last decade. It's not like it just changed yesterday or today. Um, and. And so, like, it's. I feel like one of the more neglected, kind of abused parts of our society that isn't really, really talked about. And tell me, like, how did you, you know, decide on that part? You know, you've been an entrepreneur, an investment banker. How did you decide. How did you decide that this was going to be your world?

Speaker A: It. It kind of chose me. Um, so this was born out of a personal experience. So I was on a corporate track, uh, working, had just gotten a promotion, and we unfortunately lost my dad. He had been sick for a little bit. Um, but when it happened, it was like this revelation for the family. Like, we realized in the moment that my mom had never lived alone. And she's pretty active still. She's in her 80s now. She's still driving. She has her little beach condo. She's living her best life playing tennis, dancing, et cetera. But there were certain things she couldn't navigate without some support. So part of it was just kind of helping her coordinate some things, like medical appointments or contractors to help around her house. Um, but then the other things were the phone calls that kept coming during the day while I was in meetings. And I was just like, I love you, but you can't call me six, seven, eight times a day during the work hours. So let's figure this out. And half the time, it was just a little bit of loneliness, right? So if you've lived with somebody as a partner for 53 years and you look up one day and they're gone, that's a huge adjustment. And so it became a personal issue for me, trying to help her manage her lifestyle and maintain her lifestyle from afar, because I lived in the New York area at the time, and she was still down in Florida, uh, where I was raised. And it was just sort of talking to friends. I realized this was a huge issue across the board. It wasn't just me and my family. Um, so I started doing a little bit of research and realized, to your point earlier, this is a neglected population that's growing faster than all the other populations. We're going to be 20% of the market of the US population is going to be folks over 65 and in just a few years from now. So how are we addressing them? How are we making sure they're staying active and increasing longevity? So that's how I found my way into this sort of arena. I was always healthcare, but never necessarily looking at older adult populations until now.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because, like, um, my wife's on a mission trip in, uh, North Africa this week, and I only have, you know, eight days of, you know, single, single dad, single dad life. Right? And I sit here and look at someone who's had a partner for 53 years, and now it's just, you know, you're gone without, without your connected other half. And, and I, you know, and I can't even imagine that. That feeling and, and, you know, that pain that goes with that. But then, you know, you know, I'm sure she's strong and resilient, and so she wants to still move on and live life. But there's just, you know, this gap, this, this hold. How did you get into being an entrepreneur? Where did that, where does that origin story start? Or is this. Is this it?

Speaker A: It? This is it. So, like, I, you know, I went to grad. I went to Florida A and M University. I was raised in Tallahassee, uh, went to University of Michigan for grad school and came out to do investment banking. So I moved to New York, um, almost 10 years on Wall street, and then went to client side like a lot of us do. So I was working in a corporate environment. It was literally seeing that there was no resource here. So I actually was originally just trying to find somebody I could hire, right, to do the same thing that we've developed, uh, with Kanumi. But it was just, there was a gap in the market. There was an opportunity, and there was a skill set that I had that I could bring to the table that I knew I could solve this issue. Um, so it was entrepreneurship found me, not the other way around.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Awesome. But so the, the money game is interesting because you've been an investment banker, right? And I was like, just watching LSU's, you know, it's called the money game, right, that they just, they just came out with, um, about, you know, nil and, and, and finance and money that's going on. And so, like, there's money in all kinds of different places. Like, there's crowdfunding money, there's private equity money and different things. And so, you know, talk to me about, you know, how you're raising Enough capital because you're not entering into an industry that you know is, is capital free. Right. It doesn't take any money to, to build and grow a business. So talk to me about how, how you're navigating through, through that world. I mean you come with some, you come know capital experience which is nice, which a lot of entrepreneurs don't.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was interesting. It's it venture is different than private equity or M and A transactions that I was used to is the uh, it's a completely different ball game in terms of the due diligence process, how you want to assess an opportunity, etc. When you're in venture you're really betting on an idea and a founder or founding team. Um, so when I first started I wanted to make sure that this was a venture backable business, that this was a business model that actually made sense. So I bootstrapped for the first year as I developed an idea alongside our COO and our strategic advisor.

Speaker B: Um, because you looked at so many different deals, you kind of saw the difference between a fundable business and a non fundable business.

Speaker A: That's right. So what's the total addressable market? Is there a real problem set? Where can you solve for those points of friction along that work process and who's going to pay for it. And so that's when you start to figure out okay, this is a fundable business because this has a huge market opportunity. Um, and so that's when I started looking at okay, what are outside sources of funding to really get us where we need to be. So we did some friends and family. I had a great friends and family round unexpectedly to help build our mvp. I took that MVP and that idea and that concept. I entered uh, techstars accelerator and then that allowed us to meet other pre seed, uh, investors. And so Comcast is our lead investor right now. We want a pitch competition that uh, Comcast put on around the care economy is what we're calling it these days. Um, and so we won that pitch competition.

Speaker B: I like that though. I like the care economy.

Speaker A: We ah, I like that it's the full spectrum. Right. So longevity in older adults is on one end all the way down to child care. Right. And so all the things in between you have mostly women. I think the average family Caregiver is a 49 year old woman who actually has a job outside of the home on top of taking care of kids and older adults in their families. And so it's like you have this whole spectrum of caregiving that has to take place and all the things that go into it. So it's called the care economy. So Pivotal Ventures, Melinda, uh, French Gates Fund backed the accelerator program, the Future of Longevity accelerator I participated in and techstars, um, and they have done a great job with the holding po of sort of delineate what is the pure economy, how large is it, how is it growing? What are the different subsectors within. And longevity is one of those sectors.

Speaker B: So if I'm a noob, right, and you just spoke a foreign language to me and um, I don't know what all of those things that you're saying are right? Where does an entrepreneur who has an idea, where do they start? What makes them. Let's start with what makes them a fundable venture. What makes them a fundable investment for venture capital?

Speaker A: Yeah. To me, the way I think about it is there could be a small business, you could have an idea that's going to be a cash generation business that turns a profit, but it's local, it doesn't have a huge target, addressable market, meaning you can't really have that business service a large group of people outside a particular local market or a region. But if you have a fundable business, it's something where you're solving a problem, you've developed a solution that's unique, that's differentiated, that's special, that somebody's going to want to buy your service or product above and beyond other people's that has a market potential that's great enough for there to be a return for an investment that goes into it for a venture fund. Um, so that addressable market has to be large enough. So is it a big hairy issue that you have a unique solution for that you can sell to a lot of people so you can make a lot of money.

Speaker B: How does it work, working with a venture fund? Do they take equity in your business? Do they give you a loan? Do they, are they, you know, is it, you know, just an investment so you can go run operations? How does it, how does it work? Do they have decision making?

Speaker A: There are different types of investment. So there are uh, there's non equity investments like grants. So um, the Small Business Administration has different types of grants. Other folks produce different types of brands. Those are harder to find. Then there's equity. Take uh, positions in your company and there are different ways you can do it. You can do it straight equity. We used a safe agreement, which is a simple agreement for future equity, um, for our pre seed round. So you, you actually go pitch your ideas to venture Companies or venture funds, um, they either make a decision to move forward or not. And then you negotiate what the value of the company is or the idea is at that point point, and they get a piece of your equity in exchange for cash. And so that's what we did with our pre seed round. We um, together a safe agreement. Uh, we have three financial institutions or investor, um, groups that are participating in that round and they've gotten a piece of equity for the future when we do a price round for seed which is coming up soon.

Speaker B: And what percentage of your equity did you have to give up to get that startup capital?

Speaker A: It's different. So what we've done is we did a post money valuation cap, meaning that we want to value our future state of our company as we put it, initially at $5 million, now it's at $10 million. And depending on how much money you give, that's the percent you give away. Um, so we've raised 1.5 million, just under 1.5 million on a $5 million um, safe and now we're raising an additional 3 to 5 million in a price drown per seat.

Speaker B: Okay, and are you, are you, do you have revenue as a business yet or are you building, Talk to me about that.

Speaker A: So we're building out now. So we have um, some initial contracts in place. So we've done some direct to consumer. We have beta testers that are on the platform live, they're using it, it works, they're fully engaged. So we're getting some really great feedback on our, our customer service model. Um, and then we have.

Speaker B: So, so it's an app, it's an

Speaker A: app, it's a web app. So it's, it's, it's a, I would say it's a combination of people and technology because the people aspect is something that's really unique and needed for this particular population. So at the end of the day we have a tech enabled platform to allow for scalability, but we have people on the other side of that. So we use social workers, licensed clinical social workers to act as concierge to older adults and their caregivers. And so we can feel it's like

Speaker B: a side hustle for social workers is

Speaker A: a side hustle for social workers. And we pay a little bit.

Speaker B: I like it, I like it. We, we need, we need to stamp that one.

Speaker A: That. I'm gonna say that again. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean social workers need a side hustle. I mean it is one of the hardest jobs in America, right? Having, having, you know, um, being been an Adoptive parent myself, you know, fosters and different things.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I, I, they, they work their butts off for very little reward. And one side or another is hating them, right. The whole way through the process. And it's, it's a torturous journey. And I don't think they're extraordinarily high paid. Well, I know they're not extraordinarily high paid. And so a side hustle is good. I mean, I think all Americans need a side hustle. So if you got a 9 to 5, you probably need some kind of side hustle toward, to build towards your future.

Speaker A: That's true. And in this way, it's like all the pain of, uh, their day to day, nine to five, we can take some of that burden off because we have the technology platform that takes the administration pers, as well as a care coordinator. So they're really just focused on building relationships with their clients and making sure that they're meeting their health and lifestyle goals and helping them coordinate that care and understand their benefits.

Speaker B: Now, how does a, uh, noob, right, go find these, like, three institutions that got you to 1.5 million? How do they, like, where do they, like there? It's such a, you know, it's like. Right, but let's, let's uncover it a little bit for them.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it's really hard. It's a numbers game, so you have to get used to hearing a word. No. Right. You have to develop a thick skin. So you do the research. And out there on the interwebs, right, the Internet, you can find lists of venture capital funds, um, and you can figure out by doing your research or looking through those lists who are the types of funds that actually invest in your industry? Because you need to be very specific. There are funds that are industry specific, that are stage specific. So how early are you in the development process of growing the business? Um, and then there are also that are, that are specific to the different types of founders. So there are funds that focus on women founders or founders of color. So you have to create a short list. And that shortlist is like 100 to 200 different funds, right. And you have to just start almost dialing for dollars. So there are accelerator programs like tech stars, um, there are different pitch competitions like Comcast put on through their lift labs, and, um, which is amazing. Um, and then you just kind of start the process. And so you have to run it like you're running a deal. Right. Like, here are my prospects or I have to go sell myself and sell this idea. To these potential customers or these potential investors. And it's, it takes, it takes a while. Um, and then you find the right fit. And what happens is once you start having those conversations, those investors start introducing you to other investors that they think are a good fit. So it becomes these series of warm intros which are, have a higher potential of converting. You also want to make sure you're talking to other founders. Right. So some of the best leads I've gotten in terms of finding um, venture dollars is through other founders. So there are communities of other founders. You want to join those communities, you want to network with different people. And this project that I just finished, um, or is just airing called Culture Culture, um, Capital, which was amazing. So you. I'm in a group of folks that Comcast has backed other founders of Color, um, through techstars. It's not just your accelerator. You get access to network with people from accelerators all over the world that they've sponsored. Um, and they have different programs and it's techstars for life. So they have different resources. We have a platform where we can access information. They have teams of people that can help you find, uh, other investors that might fit with what you're looking for. It's been amazing.

Speaker B: Wow, I love that. I got to get some of them, you know, on our podcast. How are you navigating? So I get, you get the money, right and I get, you're savvy, strong businesswoman. Right. So. But let's look at the other side of it, right? There's two sides that, that investment banker, maybe I could be wrong. Doesn't come with the background of intense marketing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Intense social. Right. Doesn't come with the intense tech background. So how are you navigating, you know, those two, those two cycles?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was lucky in that, that uh, the, the investment banking was only the first half of my career. The second half of my career on the client side I ran different business units for insurance companies. So, Ietna student health business. I uh, was vice president of group life and voluntary products at the Hartford. Most recently was chief commercial officer at Delta Dental. So technology transformation projects, building out new tech platforms and capabilities, doing direct to consumer as well as B2B marketing, understanding the benefits, sales cycle, managing sales teams. I'd done all that. So that, that's the benefit of being a first time founder. This at this point point in my career is that I have a lot of experience to bring to the table. Um, one of our investors actually come and he's like, you're you're the type of founder that we don't have to think about replacing once the business scales because we know, you know, how to run a larger company as well. Um, which was very flattering. I was excited to hear that. Um, because it's not always the case, right. Sometimes you have some other entrepreneurs that come in and they like being serial entrepreneurs. They like getting it started, doing the nitty gritty at the beginning and then exiting and, and trying something else new. This is something that I'm really passionate about. Um, and it's a skill set that I can bring to the table that it's actually transferable to this particular business.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because some people have these different gifts, right? For me to start a business, to go zero to 10 million is, is, I've done it over a dozen times, right? It doesn't, you know, it's, it's something, something I enjoy taking A company from 10 to 100 million, you know, is something I've done, you know, for the first time in the last, you know, the last few years. And it's like, where do I want to go? Do I want to be a part of, you know, the, the freight train, right, of the future or, or am I ready to go do the new thing? So I, I, I get, I get that part of it. And then you get people who've never done a startup, right? And doing a startup is, is a different type of game because you have to, one, be conscious of the money. Like you have to know how to produce income now. But that's something I'm finding, you know, as you get to the next levels, you still have to be conscious of the money. And what happens is, is when the business gets bigger, it's very easy to not be as conscious to. This is the next profit center, this is the next income, this is the next expense because it starts to get bigger. And so you have to have this financial team that is able to read the tea leaves very effectively because like, I know I can read the markets as well as anybody in the world. Like, I can go and tell you, like, here's the five things that were going to happen this year, right, with interest rates and here's all of these things that were going to happen. But, but if you don't have the, the, the, the financial team within your organization at the same time to make the navigation of that, that, that, I don't know, I called the, you know, tea leaf reading, right? Um, you know, then, then it doesn't do you any Good. You know, to be able to know what's coming if, if, if you're not able to take the, the appropriate actions behind it. So where do you see this market? I mean this is a crazy election, right? I said, I said six months ago, I said it was the first time I didn't know if either one of the potential candidates were going to make it to November to be able to run for office. Right. I said one might be in jail and the other one might not be able to run. Right. And, and it looks like one's going to make it and one, one won't make it. But like, how are you navigating that? You know, how are you finding capital? How are, you know, the market? Like, how are you seeing all of that right now?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting. So the way we're thinking about it is looking at the different revenue streams through our go to market channels and how it's going to play out. Healthcare is one of those industries, you're always going to be there, right? How it gets paid could shift depending on policy. Um, so with us we are looking at a model that not only looks at employer groups as a employee benefit, so we're getting those dollars, um, we're looking at it as third party billing through Medicare or Medicare Advantage plans. And so as things tighten, there's less room in budgets for voluntary services. But what we're doing is making the business case that early intervention and increasing longevity reduces cost over time. So we're one of those benefits or those value adds that's actually worth keeping. And we're hearing a lot of positive feedback even during this open enrollment period because open enrollment for Medicare is starting up and things are a little bit of the wild wild west in that particular market, um, just because it's super competitive. Medicare Advantage is one of the largest profit centers of most insurance companies that they have at, um, so they're trying to protect those profits and make sure they're managing that risk pool pretty well because older people have higher healthcare costs mostly. Um, so we're seeing that we are insulated a little bit because it's healthcare from a lot of the market fluctuations. Um, and we're positioning ourselves as a value add that's worth the risk of paying it out as a value added benefit because we're reducing cost over time. We're building the business case that make it, makes it worthwhile so we're fairly protected.

Speaker B: So when I look at one of the first times like I looked at assisted care, healthcare, um, as an investor, right, Buying Buying, you know, investing into healthcare facilities. I was kind of taken back a little bit at the conditions that I saw in a lot of assisted care, a lot of. A lot of health care facilities. Um, I know I had a friend that dad, you know, got sick during. During COVID Non. Um, Covid, really, but got sick during COVID And, you know, I went with him to go visit, you know, his dad. And there's, you know, four. Four, you know, adults, you know, that, you know, are of age, you know, in one basically room. Right. You know, separated by curtains, know, in different ways. And. And I was just, you know, I. I know that there's parts, like, I've been investing long enough. I know I've been in parts of Philly that feel like, you know, a war zone. I've been in parts of Houston that feel like a third world country, literally. Like, you know, where I still see people on horseback, which blew me away. Right. And. And like, there's different parts of the US but that was an area where, like, I'm in a major city, in a major suburb, and I'm looking at, you know, somebody who actually has been decent financially throughout their life. It's not like they're broke, you know, and they're, you know, paying, you know, an exorbitant amount of money to share a room with three or four other people in their, you know, 80s. And I was just. I was, frankly, I was just kind of disgusted a little bit. I, uh, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's exactly why we're trying to create a solution that allows people to live at home if they so choose and stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. Elder care in this country is a bit broken in terms of you have to spend down all your assets to be able to qualify to get Medicaid benefits, um, because Medicare doesn't cover everything that you would require if you have to go into skilled nursing facility or assisted living. And it's super, super expensive, out of pocket, where most people can't afford private rooms, to your point. Um, and so what's the better solution is early intervention. Working with folks when they're just on the cusp of active aging is what we call it, where they're still young, they're still fairly independent, um, and they want to stay that way as long as possible. So why can't we spend less money up front so that you don't spend so much money on the back end and put yourself in a position where you're sharing a room with three other adults? Um, only partitioned by curtains. Right. And still paying out the nose for it because most, most people can't afford that at the end of the day, which is unfortunate.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think he was in a situation where he had to rehab, like, get through rehabilitation and stuff and that, you know, before he could go back home because he couldn't go up his own stairs. Right. And his house and stuff. It was just, you know, it was very painful for, for me from. For me to watch. And as I look at, you know, I hear this constantly from investors as I'm talking to them, and, and they're trying to navigate their own finances and their own money is like, they have a elderly parent, and they're trying to say, like, what's. What's it going to cost? You know, is it going to cost 4,000, 5,000amonth? You know, and their Medicare covers this much. And so, you know them as a, uh, you know, they're going to cover this much. But, you know, even people that are fairly well off, you know, an extra 5,000, 10,000amonth is significant. It's huge. And a lot. Most Americans. That's not even a unfathomable conversation. Right. For. For. For more than half of America, it's not even a conversation starter. Right. And so it's. It's very, Very, very challenging. And so, you know, I feel like, you know, with your app, you can create. Increase the number of years where people can probably stay at home. Um, and then the other part you were saying, there's. There's a lot of stuff it does in there to help them. Is there, like, education stuff in there where they can kind of learn about, you know, ways to navigate some of the more difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Difficult parts of the journey?

Speaker A: Yeah, we have a, uh, whole thought leadership campaign we call 12 Tips for Successful Aging. So every month there's a different theme to help them kind of navigate life. And part of what creates stickiness on the platform with older adults is that we do social engagement activities that reinforce that idea. So we push out educational materials, through newsletters, through other resources. We have activities for them to do virtual, virtually. Um, and then we create a sense of community. I think that's one of the biggest differentiators that we have with our platform is this entire social engagement piece, creating that community. So they really enjoy that, and it keeps them engaged and sort of in charge of their own life. Right. Um, and so one of the other things that we do to extend the reach, um, for reinforcing those ideas is we have strategic partners so like what you were talking about, not thinking about the cost of five or $10,000 extra a month to take care of an aging parent or loved one. We have a partner with estate planning. Right. So you start thinking about that early. Um, how do you need to set up a trust? How do you need to move assets, how do you need to arrange your life so that you can reduce that burden as much as possible as early as.

Speaker B: Yeah. And if you navigate the estate planning thing wrong, it's challenging because, you know, you'll find attorneys that want to charge you 30 or $40,000 for something that you can get done fairly inexpensively. Right. And you know, do they know the difference between an irrevocable trust or, you know, you know, there's just, there's just different things that they don't know. You know, the difference between, you know, a simple family trust and uh, there's so m. So many parts of that conversation that they're, they're going, they're going to struggle with. So what do you think the next three to five years look like? You, like, take me through what? Like if you were to paint the picture, write a story and put it in an envelope, what do you feel like it looks like?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, uh, was.

Speaker B: I can see it, by the way. I can see taking a little breath there, like. Yeah, here we go.

Speaker A: I'm excited. So we have this whole concept around building this online community. So we started with the care coordination piece. We've built that part of the platform. The next phase is a, uh, marketplace. So we will vet vendors, we will pre negotiate rates and have a self service marketplace as part of the app as the second phase. And then the third phase is building out the social engagement piece. So think of it almost like a miniature version of Facebook just for older adults and their caregivers where they're protected from fraud and predators, etc. And it's a safe space. Um, so that's the vision for the product platform. I think what we're thinking about in terms of the business model is expanding, going outside of just the employer benefits space into value added services embedded in insurance products, um, to really increase the scalability and the growth trajectory of the revenue. And then thinking about other markets. Is this something that we could expand to work with child care, um, adult children with special needs. How do we make sure that the service model that we're creating is really being expanded? And so over the next three to five years, that's the direction we're going.

Speaker B: How do you navigate what to do right now versus when you're going to start to bring in these other lines. Right. Because right now you got to get, you got to get the elderly care done.

Speaker A: That's exactly right. So we're staying focused and I think that prioritization exercises that we do on a regular basis, uh, making sure that we have identified your strategic priorities. And this is what I tell the team is like, if something is not fitting within these strategic goals, it's something we shouldn't be doing right now. Right. Maybe it's a parking lot issue, maybe it's something that doesn't fit with what we're trying to accomplish. But you have to stay focused. There has to be a level of discipline with prioritization of task and what's going to achieve the right targets and goals for your short term and long term right now. Um, and not getting distracted. I think that because there's so many things that you could do. Like people were asking us early on, would we pivot to do childcare as well? And the answer was no. Because we have to create the core platform, um, and fix the right business model ideas, get them fixed and in place so that we can grow. And then once we're at a place where we're at scale, we can start thinking about diversification.

Speaker B: Now where do you guys make money from the individual app user? Where does the income come from?

Speaker A: Yeah, so you have direct to consumer play. So if you went to our website right now, you could enroll your mom if you wanted to. And there's a membership fee on a monthly basis.

Speaker B: We, you need to get on like American Express concierge and like some of those other concierge services where they just add you in as a, as a, as a, as an ancillary service.

Speaker A: That's exactly right. So that's the other avenue is going to B2B2C market and that's where you're going to get scale. So we have um, we sell through different associations as a member benefit at a co marketing agreement so they get a discount. We sell as an employee benefit so it's embedded as in part of your employee benefits packages or your wellness packages. And we get a per employee per month fee off of those, um, populations of employees. And then where you're going is like how can we get embedded with other um, strategic partners, uh, so that we're paid on a per member per month basis for those as well. So that's, that's that our revenue.

Speaker B: Well, you're on, you're on on a fun, fun journey you know, for people right now, they would go to your website, they would go to the um, kanumi.com. is that what it is? Wow. You have a six digit website that's, that's pretty hard, pretty hard to find

Speaker A: sometimes because we made up our name. Right.

Speaker B: So there you go.

Speaker A: Early, early stage. We had a different name. Uh, we got a trademark challenge right out the bat. I was like, there's no way we're wasting money on lawyers trying to fight this. We went through a whole branding exercise to come up with a unique name. So Kanumi is a mashup of kinship and umi in Malawi means servant or to serve. So we're here to serve families is what the name means. And so with Kanumi it's six letters, unique. We paid basically nothing for that website, which was awesome. And it's. Nobody else is going to have it.

Speaker B: Yeah, just to get my own name. At one point in time I had to pay an arm, arm and a fist to get Dutch men in hall. So that was, that was, that was challenging. Someone else had just basically bought it in order to hold it hostage so that I had had to go, go and buy it someday. Right. So, um, I. Buy your own. I always tell every entrepreneur, buy your own name. Like just, just have your own name as your own website. Like just buy it. Because, because if you start having success, somebody will buy it and then you're gonna have to pay an arm and a leg to get you, get your, get your own name. So it's an important thing. Um, as I look at some of the things that are, that are going on right with this economy in the market in the Next, the next 12 months, you know, are you planning on doing a CF? Are you planning on doing a reggae? Are you just planning on continuing to navigate the venture capital? Kind of. What's your plan for, for bringing the. And how much money do you feel like you need to really launch this to the level it's, it's going to be?

Speaker A: Yeah, I, we are planning on staying the course and venture for at least two more rounds. So seed raising another 3 to 5 million and then doing a series A. Um, and we'll determine how much, probably 10 to 20 million. We'll think about it when we get there. And I think once the way we've modeled it out is like once we get past series A, we should have enough recurring revenue so that we can start reinvesting some of the profit from that because we turn profit, um, at that point. Uh, and so then we'll think about, you know, are we looking at a strategic buyer? Are we looking at, you know, going public? How do we, how do we want to grow going forward, but at least two more rounds in the venture.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think in three to five years we're going to have an interesting wave on Wall Street. I think there's been, you know, going IPOs, going public has been kind of, it's gotten kind of quiet. The last, you know, it hasn't, you know, you haven't seen this, this. First of all, it's harder than ever to get through regulatory, get through all the obstacles as a small business to become, you know, prepared to be ready to be fully public. Right. As a company. So it's harder than other ever. And then the second thing is I think it's just we went through this big tech wave of IPOs, um, of social media, you know, and different things. And so now it's kind of like now and then we had some flops. Right. And so, but I feel like, you know, the, the Wall Street's going to be ready three years, four years to go through a uh, massive wave, um, I think a very successful IPOs. And I think if you're a startup, you know, you want to kind of catch, you know, the, the, the middle, the middle of that wave at least. So you know, three to four years from now, going into seven years from now, there's going to be some big. And um, I think ah, AI is going to be a part of it. I think tech obviously is going to be a part of it. And so, you know, there's, there's some fundamental stuff that's happening where the consolidation of money in America is kind of changing in the sense that like you have these giants that just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, but now you have these waves of startups, um, that are getting funded by the giants. And you didn't have that before, right? And, and so that, that's kind of an interesting start. But now we also have the public and America that can fund businesses and fun stuff they believe in. Right. So for me, I think, you know, you were, you know, very investable founder. Right? And, and I think, I think if you did a CF or if you ever did, you know, a reggae, I think, I think you, I think you'd crush it because I think your idea is brilliant and, and obviously it's a purpose driven cause which is, which is critically, critically important. Anything last you'd love to share with our, our audience, our tribe, you know, or how they can get more involved with. With Kanumi.

Speaker A: Yeah. Number one, go to Peacock and stream our Culture Capital series. I'm on all three of the episodes, but we're featured in the third one and it'll give you a little bit more color about sort of that whole purpose driven model. It's funny you said the word purpose. That's actually the name of that particular episode where they featured me was the one on purpose. Um, so love for folks to check us out there, but we also just come to our website. We actually do what we call learn more sessions every other week. So if you're more interested in learning more as a direct to consumer play or if you want to schedule a meeting to talk to us about how we can be a better strategic partner for your employees, for your members, uh, of your organization, we would love to chat and figure out how we can partner with you.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thanks. Thanks for being on and appreciate it having you.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's a pleasure. I'm um, down in Florida often because that's my home state, so hopefully we'll meet soon in person.

Speaker B: Yeah, it would be great. Come, come visit and love to break bread with you.