115: Saying Yes Before You're Ready: Content Systems, ICPs, & Leadership with Ashley Segura

1 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor. 2 - > I'm your host, Danny Gavin. 3 - > And together with industry leaders and marketing experts, 4 - > we'll explore the meeting point of mentorship and marketing. 5 - > We'll discover how these connections have affected 6 - > careers, marketing strategies, and lives.

7 - > Now get ready to get human. 8 - > Hello everyone, I'm Danny Gavin, founder of Optage 9 - > Marketing Professor, and the host of the Digital Marketing 10 - > Mentor. 11 - > Today we are joined by digital and content marketing veteran 12 - > Ashley Segura. 13 - > She is the director of marketing at Search Lab, but her 14 - > path to this leadership role started in a way many of our 15 - > listeners will find incredibly relatable with a simple yes to a 16 - > problem she hadn't yet solved.

17 - > With 15 years of experience, including founding her own 18 - > agency and speaking on global stages, Ashley has moved beyond 19 - > just creating content to building the actual marketing 20 - > departments and operations that make that content successful. 21 - > Today we're going to talk about her transition from journalism 22 - > to marketing, her philosophy on audience analysis and building 23 - > personas, and what it will look like to lead a marketing team in 24 - > 2026 and beyond.

25 - > Ashley, how are you doing today? 26 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : I'm good. 27 - > I'm so happy to be here. 28 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Yes, long time coming.

29 - > All right, so let's jump right in. 30 - > So let's talk about your educational work background. 31 - > So how did you get here today? 32 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Oh my gosh.

33 - > Okay. 34 - > So I have I have an interesting story, which the more marketers 35 - > I talk to, the more they have a very similar background, which 36 - > I just love. 37 - > But I started in journalism. 38 - > I was a journalist.

39 - > I was reporting on the news, on weather events, on local 40 - > community events. 41 - > I was telling people's stories through literal newspapers way 42 - > back in the day. 43 - > And then everything started to turn, print started to 44 - > unfortunately die quite a bit. 45 - > And everything was going to this new online realm where 46 - > that's where you got your stories and Tumblr was just 47 - > taking off.

48 - > And so there was a new way to do storytelling. 49 - > So after I graduated, I had a few articles under my belt, was 50 - > writing for the Time Standard, had like a very what I thought 51 - > clear path to being a journalist. 52 - > And then my insurance agent asked me, can you build a 53 - > website? 54 - > You just graduated college.

55 - > You got to be, you know, hip and tech with all those things. 56 - > Can you create a website for my insurance agency? 57 - > And as a just recently graduated student who was still 58 - > starving and looking for any and all kinds of work, I was like, 59 - > sure, I can Google wordpress.org and figure out how to build a 60 - > website.

61 - > I can piece all of that together. 62 - > And so I did. 63 - > I got a theme, learned what themes were and knew how to 64 - > write content, knew how to describe, because that's the 65 - > full journals and background. 66 - > So writing the website copy came pretty naturally.

67 - > And then he loved the website. 68 - > He was able to start getting customers from it. 69 - > So fast forward to about six months, he reaches back out to 70 - > me. 71 - > He's like, hey, Art, are you able to come and speak to the 72 - > California Board of Insurance agents and teach them what you 73 - > did?

74 - > Because my website is working great for me. 75 - > Like I'm getting found all the time. 76 - > I'm getting new customers. 77 - > I was like, sure, I've never spoken before.

78 - > I've never even put together a presentation other than for 79 - > schoolwork, but sure, I'll do that. 80 - > So I did. 81 - > And that naturally gave me a bunch of different 82 - > opportunities. 83 - > A lot of the people that were in the room were like, hey, we 84 - > want you to build a website for us too.

85 - > We want you to start doing social for us and start writing 86 - > blog posts for us. 87 - > So I realized marketing and journalism, there's some synergy 88 - > here. 89 - > There's instead of telling people stories, I can tell brand 90 - > stories and I know how to capture people's attention. 91 - > So if I can combine all of that, there's something here 92 - > with marketing.

93 - > And since print was going through this terrible journey of 94 - > everything was going online, I saw this as a really good 95 - > opportunity to make my break and join the online world instead 96 - > of go against it. 97 - > And so I got a job at a marketing agency. 98 - > I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could about digital 99 - > marketing. 100 - > And I would take clients on the side and work evenings and 101 - > weekends and did that for years until I went on my own, worked 102 - > in-house, opened up four different marketing companies 103 - > over my 15-year journey, have gotten the pleasure to work from 104 - > SaaS to mom and pop businesses to huge enterprise companies.

105 - > And journalism really helped shape all of that. 106 - > And I get to meet so many marketers now who have a 107 - > journalism background too. 108 - > And now we get to tell stories still. 109 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Looking back, how much of your success 110 - > today do you attribute to that specific journalistic curiosity 111 - > and the willingness to figure things out on the fly?

112 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : 100%. 113 - > Absolutely all of it. 114 - > That and my lovely insurance agent, who he was my family's 115 - > insurance agent for like my parents, their parents, like he 116 - > had been in our family for a long time. 117 - > So I also give him quite a lot of shout-outs because if he 118 - > hadn't have asked, I don't know if I would have found a place in 119 - > marketing, let alone digital marketing.

120 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : But I just love that go-getter attitude. 121 - > Like, so I teach a lot of people digital marketing and 122 - > they're looking for their first position. 123 - > And so many of them are scared to be like, okay, but I don't 124 - > know if I have enough experience or I don't know if I'm able to 125 - > do it. 126 - > And I tell people, like, you just got to like be confident in 127 - > who you are.

128 - > And there's so many resources around you that you're able to 129 - > look if you have a question. 130 - > And obviously you don't want to lie and say, you know, um, I 131 - > can do something when you're not able to. 132 - > But there's nothing wrong with jumping in, getting your hands 133 - > dirty. 134 - > And those are the type of people, right?

135 - > So if you would have said, hey, I've never built a website 136 - > before and I'm gonna say no, your whole trajectory may have 137 - > changed. 138 - > But the fact that you're like, yes, I've got to jump on this, 139 - > it it opens this amazing door. 140 - > So I hope people learn from that. 141 - > Like, don't be scared, just try it.

142 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, and even if you are scared, 143 - > that's great. 144 - > I mean, I've learned to read that if I'm saying yes to 145 - > something and it's terrifying me, I might be on the right 146 - > path. 147 - > And that's worked for me. 148 - > Some people, it it's different feelings and and different 149 - > behaviors, but it be curious.

150 - > Like, don't be afraid to say yes to things. 151 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Yeah, it's kind of like going up on the 152 - > stage and speaking in front of an audience, having those 153 - > butterflies in your stomach is a healthy thing, right? 154 - > If you're not afraid at all, being too overconfident, 155 - > sometimes that can lead you in a in a worse place. 156 - > Ashley Segura (Gues: Absolutely.

157 - > I now get the pleasure of speaking sages around the world. 158 - > And I have been able to travel, which since I was a little 159 - > girl, that was my dream, is I wanted to travel. 160 - > I want to see the world and I want to see cultures in the 161 - > world. 162 - > That's that's what inspired me.

163 - > And that's also a big reason of why I got into journalism is 164 - > well, you can't tell people stories if you don't go talk to 165 - > people and if you don't go meet them. 166 - > And so, because of that, yes, many, many years ago, I have had 167 - > the pleasure of being able to travel around the world. 168 - > And every single time I get on stage, those butterflies are 169 - > still there, but I get to live that dream of I'm getting to 170 - > explore new places, meet new people, meet new cultures, and 171 - > teach at the same time.

172 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So obviously now you're working for 173 - > an agency, but you managed many agencies, like it sounds like 174 - > four or so throughout your time. 175 - > What were some of the hardest hard knocks that you learned 176 - > during that agency owner phase? 177 - > And potentially why today are you sitting in a place of 178 - > working for an agency and not for yourself? 179 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : I wanted to be a one-stop shop because I 180 - > thought, from a business perspective, if a client can 181 - > come to one company and have them do everything for their 182 - > digital marketing, that's the dream for the client.

183 - > That's the ease of experience. 184 - > So I spread myself really thin, trying to learn every single 185 - > aspect of digital marketing. 186 - > And this was right around the time when Facebook ads started 187 - > becoming a thing. 188 - > So then I had to throw in social ads, not just PPC.

189 - > And I quickly learned that no one can be an expert in all 190 - > things. 191 - > You just can't. 192 - > You're gonna burn yourself out, or worse, you're going to give 193 - > mediocre results to your clients who are now expecting that one 194 - > stop shop experience. 195 - > So then I started to hire out and I found contractors that I 196 - > could develop relationships with, whether I was growing 197 - > really fast or growing really slow.

198 - > And I would find people who were experts in just advertising 199 - > or just SEO or things I didn't feel as confident to go down. 200 - > And even then, it was hard to scale. 201 - > It was hard to grow because as more clients would come on, 202 - > there would be bigger demand in some of these areas. 203 - > And it as many people learn, working with contractors or even 204 - > working with employees, there is no crystal ball.

205 - > So I didn't know how long I was going to have clients for. 206 - > I didn't know how long I'd be able to pay people for. 207 - > So that whole business model, it just didn't work long term. 208 - > I made the decision to let's hone this thing in on what I am 209 - > very passionate about and what I know I can lead this 210 - > organization in.

211 - > So restructure the company, completely rebranded, new name, 212 - > new site, new services, everything, and just focused on 213 - > content and social media marketing. 214 - > That's where I was the most passionate about. 215 - > And I knew I could also have the most support. 216 - > I had a good team there.

217 - > Even from that, this was like, goodness, what this was like 218 - > 2016-ish time. 219 - > So social was just like booming. 220 - > And it was every single day something was changing with 221 - > social algorithms or new social platforms were coming out. 222 - > And that was very much so, also around the time period where as 223 - > a company, you have to be on everything and everything needs 224 - > to be unique.

225 - > And there has to be like at least four pieces of blog posts 226 - > every single month. 227 - > Like it was very cookie-cutter and very spread yourself thin 228 - > and see what lands. 229 - > And so, even niching down to those two, I realized that's 230 - > still too big. 231 - > That's still not gonna do it.

232 - > So then went through another process of just opening a social 233 - > media marketing agency that just focused on social, and then 234 - > another content company that just focused on content. 235 - > That's where I found the most success. 236 - > That's where I was also the happiest, and my clients were 237 - > the happiest. 238 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Amazing.

239 - > So, what brought you to leave that world and come and work for 240 - > an agency? 241 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : So, after opening four companies, 242 - > there were a lot of opportunities along the way, 243 - > especially coming from speaking and getting my own thought 244 - > leadership out there. 245 - > A lot of different opportunities started coming. 246 - > And one of the ones that really stood out was the opportunity 247 - > to just focus on one brand, tell the story for just one brand.

248 - > And after many, many years of working with dozens and dozens 249 - > of clients at the same time, also trying to manage the org, 250 - > carrying all of the responsibilities on the 251 - > shoulder, it sounded really, really good. 252 - > And it was like, you know, I do I want to go back in-house so 253 - > badly. 254 - > Like I want to be able to just focus and put all of my energy 255 - > towards really crafting the messaging and positioning for 256 - > one singular company and see what comes out of that.

257 - > Because now they're things have changed once again. 258 - > Now we have LLMs and like now we're in a whole nother 259 - > environment. 260 - > And I wasn't able to continuously learn all of these 261 - > new things and keep on top of everything while being spread 262 - > thin, focusing on so many different clients. 263 - > So when this opportunity came knocking, I was like, you know 264 - > what?

265 - > Let's let's give it a try. 266 - > My company was in good hands, had a credible business partner 267 - > that I was able to step back from and know that everything's 268 - > still gonna work very smoothly. 269 - > And and it was just kind of great timing. 270 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Yeah, and it shows such a beautiful thing 271 - > about our industry, right?

272 - > Some people, if they're in a certain area, you know, let's 273 - > say 10, 15 years, it's difficult to move. 274 - > But in our world, like agency, in-house, in-house agency, 275 - > there's a lot of flexibility. 276 - > So so so wonderful that you were able to make that move. 277 - > And I'm sure that all of the experiences that you had with so 278 - > many different brands just further amplifies your expertise 279 - > and how awesome you are.

280 - > And therefore, I'm sure Search Lab was really excited to be 281 - > able to bring you on the team. 282 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, it it's funny because I'm I'm 283 - > in-house, but I'm in-house for an agency. 284 - > So it's like I'm still not out of the agency life, which is 285 - > where we're, you know, I'm happy and I thrive. 286 - > So I still get to get to hear about client work and still get 287 - > to see like what the different systems and processes are in 288 - > place for local SEO and PPC.

289 - > I get still get to have a pulse on that. 290 - > But I personally, my day-to-day is focused on promoting one 291 - > brand and getting their messaging down. 292 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Very cool. 293 - > All right.

294 - > So on our podcast, we've heard mentorship defined in many 295 - > different ways. 296 - > How would you define a mentor in your life? 297 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : A mentor is someone who does a great 298 - > combination of inspiring, but also holding you accountable. 299 - > I think we can get lost with the mentorship philosophy I just 300 - > need someone to tell me what to do if I'm doing it right or 301 - > wrong.

302 - > It you you lose the mojo of what mentorship really should 303 - > be. 304 - > And that's an equal combination of inspiring you, yet pushing 305 - > you, someone to actually hold you accountable of, yeah, you're 306 - > going through your day to day, but is your battery full? 307 - > Or are you draining it on the wrong things? 308 - > Like a mentor can inspire you to follow that compass and make 309 - > sure that you're you're staying on track.

310 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Do you have any specific mentors that stand 311 - > out as pivotal to your career journey and success? 312 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, I gotta give a big shout out to 313 - > Olga. 314 - > Um, Olga Landrienko, I worked with her at SEMrush and I 315 - > learned so much from her. 316 - > Like it was like drinking from a fountain of knowledge.

317 - > And to this day, I just took her Claude Coer course a couple 318 - > of weekends ago. 319 - > It was a weekend-intensive course, and I'm still learning 320 - > from her, uh, just how to call with her and still getting 321 - > motivated and inspired by how she markets, how she builds 322 - > systems, how she builds frameworks. 323 - > So she is my, what would you call it? 324 - > My um, you're not titled this, but you're like voluntarily 325 - > titled it, like you're like token.

326 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Elected. 327 - > Yeah. 328 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah. 329 - > Kind of like like my token mentor that I have continuously 330 - > followed her journey and been inspired by it, but also like 331 - > compass my roadmap based on, oh, she's diving into LMs and how 332 - > to create marketing workflows.

333 - > How can I be doing that? 334 - > Because I'm a marketing leader too, and I have workflows that I 335 - > could probably be automating if I just take a weekend and learn 336 - > about it. 337 - > Growing through my whole journey of in-house to agency to 338 - > opening up companies, I had several different small business 339 - > mentors that I would get in touch with from uh local 340 - > communities. 341 - > I'm from San Diego.

342 - > So San Diego had a really great small business program that 343 - > would tie you in with different mentors. 344 - > So I had one that would help me with pricing because we never 345 - > price ourselves well. 346 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : One of the hardest. 347 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Hourly rates are everything, and that's 348 - > that's definitely the way to go when you're trying to figure 349 - > out how to price services.

350 - > But I had a pricing mentor, I had a service offering mentor, 351 - > and that was he was the one who helped me go from offering 352 - > everything to narrow down, narrow down, narrow down. 353 - > I also had just like a regular business mentor who I would 354 - > check in with her every once in a while and just be like, this 355 - > is where we're at. 356 - > This is we're having scaling problems or I'm having hiring 357 - > issues, like that, this is where we're at. 358 - > So it's nice to have mentors who have different backgrounds 359 - > and specialties too to help you where you're at today.

360 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So it's kind of like you had your own 361 - > board, right? 362 - > Like your board of people that depending on what you needed, 363 - > you you went to them. 364 - > I think that's awesome. 365 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, that that makes it feel extra 366 - > fancy.

367 - > I did have my own board. 368 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Well, if they say, right, a person needs 369 - > to surround themselves with good people and to be on your own, 370 - > whether it even if you're running your own agency, you 371 - > need that support. 372 - > You need the people to reach out to. 373 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Oh, absolutely.

374 - > By the second, I'm sorry, no, by the third company at a 375 - > business partner, and he's phenomenal at sales. 376 - > He that's just like he shines at that. 377 - > It's never been my strong suit. 378 - > I can get the messaging and positioning and and get the GTM 379 - > going, but then need someone who who's a closer.

380 - > So like together we were able to yin and yang what our 381 - > specialties were. 382 - > And when you're looking for a mentor, it's so great to find 383 - > that that opposite of, well, this is where I am the weakest 384 - > link. 385 - > And this is exactly why I need an outsider perspective, someone 386 - > who is incredibly intelligent in this and has the experience. 387 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So in your current role, you aren't just 388 - > doing the work, you're leading the people doing it as well.

389 - > So, what are your keys to mentorship success when you are 390 - > mentoring others? 391 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Meeting people where they are 392 - > communication-wise is everything. 393 - > I have a variety of people on my team, and every single one of 394 - > us has a different personality. 395 - > Every single one of us has a different communication style.

396 - > I can do a video recording to show exactly how to do something 397 - > and that may work for someone. 398 - > Another person's gonna need that written in a Google Doc of 399 - > here's a step-by-step. 400 - > And then another person's gonna be going to need to be told 401 - > what is done look like, and that's all I need to know. 402 - > And I'll I'll get you to that.

403 - > So taking the time to get to know your team and how they can 404 - > learn and work with you the best is vital. 405 - > You absolutely have to take the time as a leader to understand 406 - > communication styles and be willing to meet people where 407 - > they're at, even if that means sending a Google Doc, a screen 408 - > recording, and what done looks like. 409 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Yeah. 410 - > And that that way you're treating people like humans, not 411 - > just like a resource.

412 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yes. 413 - > That's what ChatGPT and Cloud's for. 414 - > Those those are the resources. 415 - > Those are the ones that we don't always have to say please 416 - > to.

417 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Although it's always good to say please, 418 - > because we never know in the future if they want to get back 419 - > at us, right? 420 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : This is true. 421 - > This is true. 422 - > Lots of like heart emojis, and I'm so sorry, I prompted wrong.

423 - > That was on me, not you. 424 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So I think this is a good segue into part 425 - > of leading a team is building systems. 426 - > So when you are building marketing operations, how do you 427 - > ensure the operational rhythm, like the meetings, the Slack 428 - > channels, the workflows actually support the team rather than 429 - > just add more noise? 430 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : One, it's taking an audit of how much 431 - > the activity is in the first place.

432 - > So, how many meetings does an average person on my team have, 433 - > whether it's within the marketing department, other 434 - > departments, other stakeholders, what does that look like? 435 - > Then also auditing your Slack communications, your channels to 436 - > see what is the frequency. 437 - > Are we chatting each other more than we're meeting? 438 - > Is that an issue?

439 - > Or does that actually work better for this team? 440 - > They like that that open feedback versus having a formal 441 - > 30-minute meeting on their calendar. 442 - > Being able to look at things holistically from the 360-degree 443 - > view of how much time is really being spent on things, that's 444 - > the first indicator. 445 - > And now with LMs, you can connect Cloud Cowork to your 446 - > Gmail calendar, to your Slack, to your Gmail, your inbox as 447 - > well, and literally have it do the audit.

448 - > How many meetings is my team in on a weekly basis over the last 449 - > three months? 450 - > How many meetings did we have? 451 - > How many meetings were back to back? 452 - > What was the summary?

453 - > Like it give the kaizen or whatever you use for your 454 - > meeting transcripts, give them the meeting transcripts, like 455 - > make it so easy to collect that information. 456 - > And then it will clearly identify hey, here's your 457 - > bottlenecks. 458 - > Here's where things did not need to be a meeting at all, or 459 - > here's where Slack channels are on fire. 460 - > They need to be meetings instead.

461 - > Doing exercises like that is kind of like the first place 462 - > that I would start. 463 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So I did a really cool Claude cowork type 464 - > of deal. 465 - > Same thing. 466 - > Like last Thursday, I was like inspired.

467 - > And I just so we we have like our meeting transcripts, and uh 468 - > I basically found a way to automatically find which Slack 469 - > channel they belong in, depending on what was discussed, 470 - > and automatically get it in. 471 - > There was pretty cool. 472 - > Um, but I love your idea of using it as more as an audit 473 - > tool um and kind of figuring out exactly. 474 - > And sometimes we think like only one direction, where it's 475 - > like too many meetings, all right, it should have been more 476 - > of discussions, but I like the opposite where too many 477 - > discussions and it really should have been a meeting.

478 - > Sometimes you don't think about that. 479 - > Um, but it it it's important that that's bi-directional. 480 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Oh, absolutely. 481 - > I mean, and there's so many times in a week, Slack will be 482 - > firing off.

483 - > And it's like, wait, wait, what if we just pause and just jump 484 - > in a huddle real quick? 485 - > Because the huddle would probably take two minutes. 486 - > But if we keep going to the street on Slack, we're looking 487 - > at at least 20 minutes, we're bothering everyone at this 488 - > point. 489 - > Let's just huddle real quick and talk this out.

490 - > But again, if you know how your team communicates and their 491 - > communication preferences and their style, you'll start to 492 - > have those indicators a lot sooner before those slack fires 493 - > happen. 494 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So when you're tasked with building a 495 - > marketing department for a company that has none, how do 496 - > you identify which solutions or roles tire first? 497 - > Do you start with like a generalist storyteller or a 498 - > technical operations specialist?

499 - > How would you approach it? 500 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : It's going to depend drastically on 501 - > where the company's at. 502 - > Like, is this a brand new company or has this company been 503 - > operating for like five years and they just have an incredible 504 - > sales team? 505 - > They've never needed marketing and this is new.

506 - > Those are two different workflows and two different ways 507 - > that I would approach building out a marketing department. 508 - > But if you're like, okay, regardless of the scenario of 509 - > the company, what's a good rule of thumb of where you should 510 - > start building out? 511 - > That's where running a marketing audit, if the company 512 - > has been established, identify what's been working, what hasn't 513 - > been working. 514 - > This is going to give a big bird's eye view of not just what 515 - > social channels and like what your engagement metrics are, but 516 - > where are you getting the most revenue from marketing efforts?

517 - > Whether anyone was doing the marketing before or not, your 518 - > site is still marketing for you, even if someone's not regularly 519 - > optimizing it. 520 - > It's a marketing channel. 521 - > So identify where the biggest wins are, what channels are the 522 - > biggest players. 523 - > And then from there, who do you need?

524 - > Do you need an SEO to further optimize the website and make 525 - > sure every single month it is driving even more conversions 526 - > because that's the number one player? 527 - > Is it all of the PPC ads, the social ads? 528 - > Like that's how I start to identify what roles I need 529 - > first. 530 - > I always want to focus on what's going to give or what's 531 - > going to be the closest to giving money to the company 532 - > immediately.

533 - > So that's where demand gen or a go-to marketer, a GTM marketer 534 - > is going to come into play. 535 - > Let's get that the wheel spinning there so we can make 536 - > sure our product, our positioning, all of that's good 537 - > to go while we're still getting some kind of ROI from marketing 538 - > efforts. 539 - > Simultaneously, you're cleaning up all the operations or you're 540 - > building all of the operations at the same time. 541 - > This is where marketing leaders need to get their hands dirty, 542 - > do some of the execution themselves, especially with the 543 - > small, lean teams in the beginning, hire someone that can 544 - > help put more effort and resources towards the conversion 545 - > engines that are working already, and then simultaneously 546 - > start building out processes, start cleaning up all of the 547 - > operations.

548 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So similarly, when you're leading a 549 - > marketing department, how do you sell the value of invisible 550 - > operational improvements to executives who want to see 551 - > immediate results or jump on trends? 552 - > I feel like sometimes with marketing, like, okay, we got 553 - > the one marketing person, you know, in-house, and suddenly 554 - > like, oh yeah, but we really need this and this. 555 - > And sometimes it's difficult to sell that up the chain.

556 - > How do how do you approach that? 557 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : It is difficult. 558 - > It is absolutely difficult. 559 - > And that's where having someone or some kind of process in 560 - > place that can keep the ROI engine moving.

561 - > So that, oh, we are seeing MQLs, marketing qualified leads 562 - > coming in. 563 - > We are getting sales qualified leads coming in. 564 - > That's happening simultaneously while we're redoing our 565 - > tagline, we're redoing our messaging, we're building out 566 - > ICPs that have never been done before, we're conducting mass 567 - > marketing audits or competitor intelligence. 568 - > Also doing presentations on the results of those and giving 569 - > those to the larger stakeholders is usually really eye-opening 570 - > because it usually doesn't just affect the marketing department.

571 - > One of the first things I did when I joined Search Lab is I 572 - > did a marketing audit and I did an ICP analysis. 573 - > And so I pulled a bunch of transcripts from sales calls, I 574 - > interviewed different account managers on the team, uh, went 575 - > through all of the marketing data and compiled all of that to 576 - > identify here's who we've been talking to. 577 - > Here's who our customers actually are in the industries 578 - > that represent them. 579 - > And here's where we think we want to go.

580 - > These are all three different stories, and these are all three 581 - > different paths. 582 - > So, how do we get on the same page? 583 - > How do I identify who our real ideal customer persona is based 584 - > on these three things? 585 - > Well, that took the owner of the company, Wayne and Opinions, 586 - > that took the director of sales, that took the director of 587 - > account managers.

588 - > Like it involves so many other stakeholders. 589 - > And we were able to come out of that with a very clear vision 590 - > of here's who we actually want to target. 591 - > This is who we actually want to see. 592 - > That took about a little over four months of a process to do.

593 - > So that's a big, that's a big time suck for a marketing 594 - > department to be focusing on. 595 - > But at the same time, we had lead gen campaigns running, we 596 - > had webinars going, we had the typical nurture sequences going. 597 - > So sales was still getting marketing qualified leads being 598 - > sent in. 599 - > And we were able to start in the new year with all right, now 600 - > we know how to update our messaging, our product 601 - > positioning.

602 - > Now we know how to update our advertisements. 603 - > Sales knows who they're going to talk to, what the pain points 604 - > are, like showing the value of what you're doing and how it 605 - > impacts company wide, usually people will start to pay 606 - > attention and appreciate it. 607 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So obviously going through the ICP 608 - > process and there can be movement and change. 609 - > So, how do you help stakeholders realize that what 610 - > they care about, for example, the technical specs of a product 611 - > or of a service might not be what their ICP actually cares 612 - > about?

613 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : So I took the transcripts and took 614 - > transcripts during the discovery call to the actual strategy 615 - > presentation where we do the full pitch to all the follow-up 616 - > calls. 617 - > And I looked for what are the most commonly used phrases, what 618 - > are the most commonly used words, what are the pain points, 619 - > what are the hesitations, and use the actual quotes from 620 - > people, gave them a if I could find them on LinkedIn, I used 621 - > their photo.

622 - > If I couldn't, I gave them like a Canvas stock photo and put 623 - > this into a presentation deck and was like, this is who we are 624 - > actually talking to. 625 - > They don't speak in marketing technical jargon. 626 - > They still don't know what LL LLMs mean. 627 - > Granted, a lot of marketers don't either, and that's okay.

628 - > So we need to simplify things. 629 - > And here's the words that they are using. 630 - > They're literally telling us on calls how to sell them. 631 - > So why not use that terminology that they're the most 632 - > comfortable with?

633 - > And let's put that into our marketing efforts. 634 - > Let's put it into how we converse on the phone with them 635 - > or when we're in person with them or when we're on stage at 636 - > these industry events. 637 - > And having that, the literal transcripts, like you can't 638 - > argue with that. 639 - > That that's facts and data, right there.

640 - > You can't argue, you can't have feelings. 641 - > And that's where a lot of companies get lost is well, I 642 - > feel like a lot of the calls that I have of people look like 643 - > this, or the results are like this. 644 - > No, you got to go straight to the data. 645 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : And thank God we have transcripts now, 646 - > right?

647 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Oh, yes. 648 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : I mean it's a lot easier. 649 - > Ashley Segura (Gues: Thankfully, 90% of the time. 650 - > As marketers, we're thankful.

651 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : True. 652 - > I don't know about everyone else, right? 653 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, exactly. 654 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So I don't know if you had this with search 655 - > labs.

656 - > So it's not really important, but just in general, for a 657 - > company that has an established and loyal customer base, how do 658 - > you advise them to reanalyze their ICP and adjust their 659 - > content strategy over time? 660 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : So usually this comes in a play 661 - > when a company is looking for expansion. 662 - > So this is actually something that we are up against with 663 - > Search Lab. 664 - > Search Lab Digital is really well known in the auto industry.

665 - > We have a lot of clients that are auto dealerships, used car 666 - > dealerships, even car washes, like the auto industry as a 667 - > whole represents a lot of our clientele. 668 - > But it's not all of our clientele. 669 - > So we're also specialists in all these other industries that 670 - > just don't seem to get the attention publicly from Search 671 - > Lab as the auto industry does, because we became known in that. 672 - > And so what we're working on now is creating a bunch of case 673 - > studies, uh, doing Google Business Profile reports, doing 674 - > local search reports in these other industries that we have a 675 - > ton of clientele and a ton of experience in to say, hey, we 676 - > also have something to contribute to the conversation 677 - > of the law industry.

678 - > We just did a study for cannabis industries, trying to 679 - > show how versatile our experience and background comes 680 - > from. 681 - > And that's because we want to grow, we want to expand. 682 - > So this is a problem that businesses usually face when 683 - > they are trying to expand, is they don't want to be pocketed 684 - > in just one specific industry or one specific type of customer. 685 - > But you also can't do it for everyone.

686 - > That one stop shop applies here too. 687 - > You can't be that one-stop customer and be like, all 688 - > customers are my customers. 689 - > Apple, Apple is a great example of this. 690 - > Not everyone in the world fits an Apple user.

691 - > Some of them are so much happier and fit the Microsoft 692 - > demographic and persona so much better. 693 - > And there is nothing wrong with that, but taking the time to 694 - > identify what audiences you would like to go down, what 695 - > paths you'd like to go down, and how that will impact your 696 - > growth, how that changes your messaging. 697 - > Instead of just publishing studies about the auto industry, 698 - > publish them about these other industries. 699 - > Like that's gonna look different for every company, but 700 - > it's usually gonna come down to that growth spurt of where do 701 - > you want to go and how many different customer personas are 702 - > you willing to have.

703 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So pivoting a bit, let's get into content. 704 - > What is one piece of content you've created that still holds 705 - > up years later? 706 - > Or what is one element of your content strategies that you use 707 - > that has stayed relevant over time? 708 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : So I wrote a blog post for Search 709 - > Engine Journal years ago.

710 - > I did one about how to do a content audit and one how to do 711 - > a social audit. 712 - > And I still get tagged in these posts. 713 - > Like this was probably eight years ago that I wrote these 714 - > articles, and I'm still getting tagged in them. 715 - > And what I find wild is that obviously doing a social media 716 - > audit now is drastically different.

717 - > Even just going into Facebook's back end, the business 718 - > analytics are so different user interface than it was before. 719 - > The content audit is the same thing. 720 - > We have access to so much more information. 721 - > We, the tools that we use, like HRFs and SEMrush, how we do 722 - > crawls, like all of that.

723 - > We just have so much more and we can get data so much faster 724 - > now. 725 - > But yet those two pieces are still standing and I'm still 726 - > getting mentions from. 727 - > And I think it's because how I went through those articles was 728 - > a literal step by step. 729 - > Whether you're brand new to marketing or you've been doing 730 - > this for a while, the language fit any type of persona that, 731 - > hey, if you just need to get an audit done, here's a here's an 732 - > entry way into doing so.

733 - > There's, of course, much more technical ways on how deep you 734 - > can go with doing audits, but here's a starting point. 735 - > Being able to create a piece of content that reaches different 736 - > personas is and especially how-tos, that's going to be 737 - > something that can be evergreen, even when the information gets 738 - > outdated. 739 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : And it's crazy because typically when 740 - > you're approaching a persona, it's like very specific.

741 - > But here's a good example where it's kind of general, but I 742 - > mean, still specific to what it's teaching you, but it 743 - > applies to so many people and it actually works really well. 744 - > Have you thought about going back and editing those? 745 - > I don't know if if you would even be allowed to. 746 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yes, yeah.

747 - > Search uh Search Ingenual has reached out and the social audit 748 - > one, they've done some updates too, which I'm very thankful for 749 - > because things have drastically changed and I don't do social 750 - > media audits anymore. 751 - > It's it's 2026, I'm doing just content things, whereas before I 752 - > was way more in the weeds and social. 753 - > I have thought about going into the content audit one and and 754 - > updating that as well, but it's not ranking.

755 - > It was more of I'm able to still be a part of the content 756 - > conversation with it. 757 - > So for search engine journal, I'd be happy to update for them 758 - > for ranking purposes, but otherwise, yeah. 759 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : So we often focus on the creative side of 760 - > content, but you focus also a lot on the operations. 761 - > How do you bridge the gap between a great creative idea 762 - > and a system that can actually scale it?

763 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Oh, it's so hard. 764 - > It's difficult. 765 - > So you have people who are who are the ideas people. 766 - > They are creative to their core.

767 - > They're the ones who get like the best shower thoughts where 768 - > it's like, oh, this is this is a billboard-worthy idea. 769 - > And then you have people like myself who you can tell me an 770 - > idea and I'm already processing in my mind how to operationalize 771 - > it. 772 - > What's the first step? 773 - > What does done look like?

774 - > And what's everything in between and how to put that 775 - > together? 776 - > I think being able to have a combination of the two is where 777 - > this really wins. 778 - > A lot of great ideas die because they don't have anyone 779 - > to bring them to fruition, or there's a lack of resources, 780 - > there's a lack of time and money to make that happen. 781 - > So when you're coming up with great new creative ideas, make 782 - > sure it's something that's manageable with what you have 783 - > today, resource-wise, not what you'll have next quarter.

784 - > Is this something that you can accomplish this quarter with the 785 - > resources that you have? 786 - > What is the value going to be from it? 787 - > How long is it going to take to get ROI? 788 - > Like mapping all of that out will drastically help as you're 789 - > trying to get buy-in on this idea or get operation, 790 - > operational help to make something like this happen.

791 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : All right. 792 - > It's time for our lightning round. 793 - > I've got five quick questions and hopefully they're quick 794 - > answers. 795 - > So, what is one marketing operations tool you can't live 796 - > without that isn't an AI tool?

797 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : That isn't an AI tool. 798 - > Well done. 799 - > That's a good question. 800 - > Okay.

801 - > So clickup. 802 - > Project management. 803 - > Yeah, clickup's my go-to. 804 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : I imagine over the years you've done or 805 - > you've used different prep project management systems.

806 - > Are you, do you love ClickUp the most? 807 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : No, I love Monday the most. 808 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Okay. 809 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : But yes, I I remember very early base 810 - > camp days and very happy we're not in base camp anymore.

811 - > But Monday is my favorite. 812 - > Clickup is what the teen uses and is comfortable with now. 813 - > So I'm in ClickUp. 814 - > It's it's nice.

815 - > It's similar to Monday. 816 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Very cool. 817 - > What is the most recent thing you said yes to before you felt 818 - > 100% ready? 819 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Uh planning a company party.

820 - > I've got like, it's into the quarter. 821 - > I have like eight initiatives all wrapping up this quarter. 822 - > The company party is the first week of Q2. 823 - > And I'm like, yeah, I'll take it.

824 - > I'll I'll put the agenda together. 825 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : You're brave. 826 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Thank you. 827 - > I love the good part.

828 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : I'm sure it will turn out well. 829 - > One book or leader that changed how you view marketing 830 - > operations or leadership. 831 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Let my people go surfing. 832 - > This is just, this is absolutely an inspiring book 833 - > about leadership.

834 - > And it's not marketing specific, it's not operations 835 - > specific, but it's about business and leadership. 836 - > And it's one of my favorites. 837 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Very cool. 838 - > I've never heard of it.

839 - > I'm going to check it out. 840 - > So, in one word, what is the most important trait for a 841 - > marketing leader to have right now? 842 - > Ashley Segura (Gue: Flexibility. 843 - > You need to be flexible.

844 - > You need to be resourceful too, but flexibility because the 845 - > times they are changing. 846 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : And since your career started with a bold 847 - > pivot after graduation, what is the best piece of advice you'd 848 - > give to new grads? 849 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : To say yes, to try new things, even if 850 - > you're unsure and if you don't know if you want to be an SEO or 851 - > content marketer or even in marketing, try it. 852 - > Give it a go and see where your passion really lies.

853 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Before we wrap up, what is your next big 854 - > project? 855 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : I'm gonna be growing the department. 856 - > So that's gonna be a very big and exciting, exciting task. 857 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : How many members are there now?

858 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : We have seven. 859 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Oh wow. 860 - > And and what are you looking to grow to? 861 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Uh nine.

862 - > I'm looking to add some two very core roles onto the team 863 - > and very much so looking forward to the full marketing wheels 864 - > stinning once we have that. 865 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Wow, that's amazing. 866 - > So where can listeners connect with you? 867 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : LinkedIn is probably the best spot.

868 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : How much time would do you spend on 869 - > LinkedIn? 870 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : I spend about 30 minutes a day. 871 - > Some days a little bit more, some days a little bit less. 872 - > Just depends on what my feed decides to show me, whether it's 873 - > a post from three weeks ago or three minutes ago.

874 - > But sometimes I'll rabbit hole, especially when people are 875 - > like, I just did this data analysis. 876 - > Look at what I found. 877 - > And that's a little bit longer. 878 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Cool.

879 - > I think that's a very healthy amount of time. 880 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah. 881 - > It's the only social network that I'm on or using. 882 - > So I think it's fair.

883 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Totally. 884 - > Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us and helping us 885 - > peek under the hood of content marketing and leadership and 886 - > marketing departments. 887 - > This was so valuable, so many awesome quick wins and things 888 - > that our listeners can take away. 889 - > So thank you again.

890 - > Ashley Segura (Guest) : Yeah, thank you so much for having me. 891 - > This was so much fun. 892 - > Danny Gavin (Host) : Pleasure. 893 - > Thank you for listening to the Digital Marketing Mentor 894 - > Podcast.

895 - > Be sure to check us out online at thedmentor.com and at the DM 896 - > Mentor on Instagram. 897 - > And don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or 898 - > wherever you listen to your podcasts for more Marketing 899 - > Mentor magic. 900 - > See you next time.