The Design Business Show 249: Creative Copy for Entrepreneurs with Tepsii

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Mhm. You're listening to the Design Business show. And every week I talk to the creators, designers and founders behind your favorite product launches and brand campaigns to uncover why they do what they do in the way that they do it. Because to me, graphic design is not just what a website or logo looks like. It's about strategically using beauty and language to connect your potential customers to your products and services. I'm your host, Melissa Berkheimer. Let's do this. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Design Business Show. My name is Melissa Berkheimer and I'm your host. And today I'm excited to introduce you to someone who I met several years ago. We were both speaking at an event. I knew who she was prior to that. This was like 2016. So like 8 years ish ago. But anyway, so I met her at an event we were both speaking at. We stayed connected off and on ever since. And her name is Tupsie, and I know her as a copywriter. But I will let her introduce herself because she could probably do that way better than myself.

Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Hi, Melissa. I'm so excited to be here. This is a long time in the coming. So you just described how we first met. It was. The year was 2016. The month was September. It was Miami, Florida. I was like, super sexy, beautiful vibes in this gorgeous hotel. We were at this conference, a coach. And the moment, like, I saw you in the room, we saw each other. I was like, oh, my gosh, there you are. And you gave a phenomenal talk, uh, that weekend about your. About the. A person's like, uh, web website, but like, beyond website funnels, you know, you were talking about, like, sales and personality and authenticity and branding. All these things all together. And. And I was super excited to. To hear you on stage. And so after that, I was even. I've been a fan of yours. So I want to, like, I want the podcast listeners to, like, I want to take them on a ride back. Right. So the way that I first encountered you was seeing copy on a page that was so beautifully designed. I'd never seen anybody intentionally create. And here I am, like, totally, like, hijacking your podcast. I'm so sorry. You haven't even asked me a question. But you. I'd never seen anybody intentionally create a space for words to live or exist on the Internet with such purpose. And so, uh, as someone who understands persuasion and words and psychology and copywriting, I was like, whoa, what is this new layer of this thing that that has been added on, right? So for me I had seen other people. This was a sales page for a coaching program, I think it was. Or course I'd seen people put like minimal effort into their pages and now I saw the words being intentionally designed and I took that and I didn't even realize how I started to use it, but I started to actually write my copy differently and give hints to the designers because they're not all as creative as you. And I would give hints to do this or that or place this here, or put a picture here or create this kind of background in this section because of what I saw from you. And I've never told you that because I. I don't think I even remembered, but I'm. I'm having these things, these AHAs, right now.

Speaker B: That's hilarious. So first we need to get to who you are, because we haven't done yet. But I want to clarify this. So when I was. We both have a lot of back and forth along this because the page, that page you did was, you're talking about was Kimber Luna's Be True brand new sales page. Um, it was like her first. She had done like a hundred K in like course launches prior to that in November. And then with this launch, she had hit like 700,000 plus with her sales. And when we were. I agreed to do that page for her in December of 2015. And then, no, December 2014, I agreed to do that page for her. It was published in 2015. And at that time I couldn't be like, hi, I was the one who did the page because I had already agreed to go work with someone exclusively and they technically didn't want me doing other side work. But I had already agreed to do this and we started it, you know, the year prior. So that's how that happened. But I have so many. Like, I was scared to tell the copywriter at the time who did it was. Who was Hattie Brazely that, like, I felt like there was too much copy in the hero section. I thought she was going to get mad at me, but I was like, we just need to like, cut it back a little bit so we can actually focus on the design. But that page did tremendous things for a lot of people's businesses. In fact, the persons whose conference we were both speaking at that year was her first was Camera's first customer, Carolyn Solda.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. And then, and then Carolyn became my first customer.

Speaker B: That's hilarious. And then when I was talking to you at that event in 2016, I was working with Carolyn. I did her Sales page for that event, like, three or four.

Speaker A: And I wrote that.

Speaker B: Yeah, that page. That's. I forgot that you wrote that page. Okay.

Speaker A: And then. This is so, like, incestuous.

Speaker B: We were talking. It gets. It gets better, you guys. We were talking because we're recording this in early 2024. But we were talking and I was just, like, sharing some of the work that I had done, and you stopped me and you were like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You did camera sales page. You're like, that design was the reason I bought that course and did all these other things with my life. And I was like, what is she talking about? Like, I did that. Paging this had been. So if she launched that February 2016 or 2015, and we're together in September 2016, that's a year and a half apart. Someone remembered something I designed from a year and a half ago.

Speaker A: I still remember it to this day. I bet you. I know. But. I know.

Speaker B: Remember it. But it's like. But that took in my brain, you know, this isn't like, there's not like a national campaign. There's not like a commercial on the Super Bowl, But. But the fact. And not that I'm even going for that, but the fact that people remembered that was like, hm. Got my brain thinking, maybe we're on to something. Then I told that story in, like, my welcoming email sequence. It's probably still there because I haven't updated that ish in a whole long time, which is a whole conversation we could have for another day. But I told that story in my email just to, like, get people to open their eyes about the impact that they have with their work, because you don't really realize it until you. Until it happens. And then it's like, after the fact. So then what do you say? Like, oh, I met someone who remembers a page I did from a year and a half ago. No, you talk about the impact that, like, you. What you said to me opened my eyes. And then here I am writing about what you said to me in an email about you and someone that we both knew. Kathy Steiner said, told you you were in my sequence, and you're like, what? How do I do you remember this?

Speaker A: Wait, somebody found you? M. Did you mention me in your email?

Speaker B: You. So I mentioned the story about how you told me that that page had so much impact. And, like, you, like, stopped me as we were having the conversation, and I was like. I was confused. You're like, wait, wait, wait. You did that page. I remember that Page. That page changed.

Speaker A: Like, basically you acted like you're famous to me. You're, you're bigger than Beyonce to me.

Speaker B: Like that's so that's, that's ridiculously nice,

Speaker A: but it's the truth. So, so I want the listeners to like have a take. First of all, I'm Tepsi. I forgot to introduce myself. I'm Tepsi. I am a very multi dimensional entrepreneur. I am um, officially like, I have my degree in communication strategy, like strategic communication and public communication, but from uh, a department that was in community development and applied entrepreneurship. So I've always had this like drive towards being an entrepreneur. But I'm also, I like doing a lot of things and I happen to be good at doing a lot of things. And it took a long time for me to actually say out loud, I'm good at doing a lot of things because as women we're taught to be like humble and the men are the ones who like, you know, beat their chests. So I have worked with hundreds and hundreds of entrepreneurs. I've got a copywriting program where I teach people how to write. And, and I want to talk later as we talk about this. You know, AI has now been introduced. What is the role of writing? Do we still need copywriters? That's like a really interesting conversation to have. And as a copywriter I was recognized by a lot of people because I kind of put myself out there and visibility was like my, I made visibility my B in that time and I then transitioned into business coaching and consulting. I now do some like offline business coaching and consulting as well. And, and I'm now doing much more higher level strategy and working with entrepreneurs who have big ideas, want to launch big things and like that are not necessarily in our coach market, you know, or content course creation market. I've stepped a little bit outside as well and I'm really excited to be doing that. I am um, from Vermont as well as South Africa and I'm sort of in between both mom to three beautiful, gorgeous, gorgeous girls who are brilliant and I'm super excited to be here.

Speaker B: Oh my God, I'm so excited that you're here. So that's who tepsi is because tepsi.com yeah. And we'll link to that in the show notes over on the website which um, is just the designbusiness show.com this will be episode 249 which is bananas that that's where we are. But to finish where we were and to wrap up. But I put that story about how I met you in real life and how you said to me that that page had impacted you. I, uh, put it in a welcome sequence. It's probably. It's probably still there. You knew this, though, because Kathy Steiner was the one who told you. I believe. I believe it was her. Because, Again, this was 20. This is a long time ago. So. And I feel like we're both moms, so our brains are like, m. My brain is fried. I'm tired. Just in general. But you were like, what. How do I get a hold of this email sequence? Because, yeah, I told. I introduced you, and I was like, here's the story and how that happened.

Speaker A: I wish that you had a video podcast, uh, so people could see my face, because I'm like, gosh, I forgot that part. And, and. And so this is like a very full circle moment. And, uh, for those who are listening, I want you to hear, like, we both, like, allowed ourselves to be a little bit vulnerable. We both allowed ourselves to get out there and talk to people and tell people you're their fan. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. Like, get really excited because you don't know where that's going to take you next. Right. And, like, have something positive to contribute, because I didn't know that that would impact you when I said that that way, you know, I was just, you know, from the heart. And. And it really has taken me very far. So with. In terms of the impact that that page had on me and many others, it taught me that words have value and that the. The design matters way more than. Than anybody had imagined. And. And that when I see my words, like, they're not mine, they belong to the entrepreneur I've written for. I write in their voice. But when I see words I've written on such a page, I feel honored. I feel so delighted. And what happens is I actually end up sharing. You know, my people end up buying the offer from my clients even. And, like, the whole circle, it comes full circle. It's an, you know, like an, uh, ecosystem. And it's taught me that collaboration is so much more important than competition because if we can work together, we can get so much further. The other thing that it taught me was to make friends with designers. The designer is like, you're, you know, if, If, If. If this was a marriage, one of us is a husband and the other is a wife. Because we need to. We need each other. Right? You need the copy to make the design. I need the design to make my copy shine. So we're Codependent. And it's super important to keep that in mind.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I would also like to say that the cousins and the aunties and the uncles and the grandparents are the marketers and the SEO people and the developers and all of us who live in this world, marketing, advertising, design. Branding, whatever the f you want to call it.

Speaker A: Right, right, right.

Speaker B: Yeah, I believe. And that's one of the things I think we've done a pretty good job with on this show, was talking about how the cohesion of those different disciplines align. But having these two personal experiences, stories aside, you could learn a. I guess, like, how to kind of recircle back a billion years later. It's not a billion years, but like eight years later. Because I was 32 at that time. I'm 40 now.

Speaker A: I'm, uh, turning 42 this year. 40. I'm turning 40 as well. Not 42.

Speaker B: Well, I'm 40. Yeah, I'll be 41 this year. But I was. I'm 40 now. So that's how. That's just what I'm going to say. But I'm so curious to know, how did you. Because one of the things I really love about this show that I think that we do a good job of is. And I could say that we've done been here for like a billion episodes pretty much. But how did you start. Like, how did you get your start in both copywriting and how did you get your start with business? And can you give us a synopsis? Because I think that that's like, so many young people graduate from college or they're like, okay, I want to do this new thing, and everybody, you know, can start a personal brand now. It's not foreign. It's not a foreign concept. Like, I feel like it was when we first started. And now I'm seeing people I went to high school with, like, starting to, like, build their brand, and I'm like, here I am. Um, I've had one for 13 years. Haven't really emailed my list in several months. Haven't really been consistent on social media. It's like, okay, girl, time to. Time to get out your own. Time to get out your own way. But can you tell?

Speaker A: Well, that's the challenge, right? I just had a call with a client. We're talking, and I mean, m. I took notes with this client, trying to remember, teach them or not teach them, but like, reinforcement. Working on the business versus in the business. It's so difficult, right. That that juggling act that you're doing is such A challenge. And it's something that all of us have to. To consider. But I got started, so I just remembered this. I'm having, like, a lot of aha. Guys. Like, I promise you, I didn't, like, have a history. History of smoking weed, but my memory has not. After having the third kid, I. In 2009, I, like, had graduated from college. I left college when I was younger, went back in my mid-20s and finished. And I was looking for a job. It was a recession. I couldn't find one. I had a really keen interest in black hair. I happened to be an African person with Afro hair. And it was like a time where, like, there was this movement for us to embrace our hair. And there was this line of hair care products that I ordered online. And I really like the products. And I reached out when I went to their website. It was a bad website. And I saw that, like, they weren't communicating with their customers. But I didn't know anything about, like, digital marketing or anything like that. I just had this, like, hunch, and I reached out to the president of the company and I was like, hi, sir, I checked your website. It's kind of bad. And I wonder what your marketing strategy is. And I like your product and I think you could have more followers. And at the time, there were these online communities of people who are passionate about their hair and talking about products, and his was getting mentioned a lot. But some people were, like, iffy about it because of the design. So I reached out to him and he embraced a random person because I had been googling, like, how to start a business, how to start a side hustle. Couldn't find a job. It was a recession. So this guy hired me sort of like randomly. I sent him a proposal and I said I could help him. And I didn't know what I was doing, but I created a Facebook page for him. Back then you could, like, still, they weren't monetizing Facebook much. So you could still make your business page on a personal page, invite all your friends and start marketing your thing there, right? So I started with that and I started just adding people. And then I went into, like, forums and communities online and I started, like. I saw people having these hair challenges. You know, seven days of, you know, moisturizing your hair really well or, you know, deep conditioning or whatever it was, and I started hosting challenges on behalf of this brand. I was just doing what I saw other quote unquote influencers doing before. There was a formula to this. I was just doing it. But I Wasn't an influencer. I was a regular, like, part of the community. But now I had a brand that I was, like, behind, right? And the guy said after I started helping him, his. And, uh, he also had a subscription to Constant Contact, which is an email marketing system that he had a list for. I didn't even know that email lists were, like, a thing. I didn't know that, like, the fortune is in the list. I didn't know anything. But I was like, hey, I've seen you sent some emails. Your emails suck. I think I should do your emails. I didn't know what copywriting was. I didn't know anything. But I created an email schedule for him and I went in there and I set up the autoresponders and all this. And you wouldn't believe he was only paying me $600 a month. But he told me later that he. He had a 600% increase in sales from the first month on that I was working with him. But he didn't value what I did because there was no name for this, right? Like, we. It was 2008, 9. There was no, like, digital marketing system in place. So he didn't really understand it that well. And when the board of directors wanted to cut costs, he was like, ah, uh, we'll cut the 600 that were sending to you, and I'll do it myself. And he has been chasing me since that day when he let me go. Because when he let me go, I had the idea that, like, if I can do it for him, maybe there's a way to do it for other companies. I wasn't there yet at doing it for myself, but it was just like something that dipped my toe in the water. And that was 2009. It was, like, left there dormant. I left it alone and I forgot all about it. But I was googling how to start a business, how to have a side hustle, how to work from home. As a mom, you know, all these things because I. The work life balance was what I was chasing. And eventually came m across Marie Forleo's B school ads. And this is something that's so important because one of my great friends is named Amanda Bond. She's an ad strategist. And at some point she told me she felt like quitting. She was like, this is so what is meaningful in what I'm doing? It was locked down. There's people being killed, riots, police brutality, blah, blah, blah. She's like, what's the use? What am I. What am I doing? I'm an ad strategist. I teach people about ads. Like, what is the purpose in what I do? And I remember telling her that if someone like you didn't exist, I wouldn't have found Marie Folio's B school. I wouldn't have tapped into these communities. I wouldn't have then seen Kimra in B school, who then she had figured out something the rest of us hadn't yet figured out. And she was two steps ahead or one step ahead enough to be someone I could want to follow and purchase her program. And once I got into her program, I got into an ecosystem. And that was like, five years after that initial online venture, you know, with working with that, um, hair company. And one thing I told myself was, if I'm going to spend the money on these programs, I'm going to show up in the room, I'm going to take up space. I'm going to be loud, but I'm going to be visible. I'm going to ask for what I need. You know, have you ever joined a program and felt shy and, like, you. You didn't want to, like, show up or. You don't want anybody to know your vulnerabilities. You don't want anybody to know that you don't know things. And I decided that that was my year because I kept hearing this voice saying, listen here. If not now, when? If not you, who? And I don't know where that voice was coming from. I think it's God now. Like, I believe in God, but at the time, I didn't know where it was coming from. So I was just like. But this urgency was deep. And so I woke up one. One morning and I told my husband, like, I want to sign up for the program X now. And he said no, because he'd seen me sign up for another program and not really make much of it because I was still confused. The thing about when you're starting online is so many moving pieces that if you can watch for a long time and try this thing or that thing, but you're still looking for your first paid client, you're still trying to figure out all these things to get your business up and running. And my partner at the time just didn't see value in what I was doing. He thought I was taking money out of the household and without, like, finding a way to bring it back in. And so at first, I signed up for the program behind his back, uh, using the payment plan because it wouldn't be, like, the whole amount at once. And then she held a scholarship program and asked us to write why she should choose us. Uh, and I wrote, like, everything that I just talked about. How, like, I'm leaving nothing on the table. I come from a country where. Where me and you being friends 30 years ago was a crime. I don't have anything to lose at this point, you know, because my parents have done a lot to carry me to. To get to this point. So I just wrote my entire heart out on that scholarship application, and I got the scholarship to be true Brandu, even though I had bought it, like, I had already purchased it. And then she announced the scholarship, and then I, like, went for the scholarship, and she refunded me my payment. But that's how I got started. My stories are so long winded. I'm so sorry.

Speaker B: You don't need to be sorry. I've learned after doing a lot of interviews on the show that it's best to just let them tell the story.

Speaker A: Very true.

Speaker B: That's where the magic is. And I think that everybody goes through those moments, especially now, because there's not a lot of people I don't know. Uh, I would, from what I'm hearing, and I can't say this from. Because I'm completely shifting. I'm not shifting fully away from it, but I'm definitely moving into, like you said you were at the beginning, like, different industries and different niches, which is, again, another story for another day. But I think it's important because those details matter, like, those feelings that you're having about, should I purchase, your spouse doesn't want you to buy. Like. Like, these are all real things that we all go through, but no one, I mean. And it's talked about more now, but back at that time, it wasn't. And Kim Road literally revolutionized the way that people did online business because she was teaching the things that we didn't have in B School, like the tech, how to do the ads. It's like. It's like.

Speaker A: It's how to run a webinar.

Speaker B: B School is a great program, and it's a great starting program, but it's like. It's like you're jumping into a pool, and then there's a million other things you have to learn and do and then decide for yourself. And it's almost like now I've got this sense of confidence, and maybe it's because I'm older and my kids. Kids are older. A sense of knowing, I guess, that what you want and what you don't.

Speaker A: But I think B School was, like, a lot of the how, the what, right? This is what you need. You need an email list, you need ads, you need copy, you need this, you need that. And I was like, but how does this all fit together? And I felt. The one thing that I felt in the cohort that I was in was, was the thing that was being offered into the next program. I felt I didn't feel part of the community because it was just so huge. I didn't know where to tap myself in. I struggled with the details, like the tech and all that, and like, with confidence to be visible. Because when you looked around, it looked like everybody else, uh, all had their stuff together and you were still this, this thing coming up. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: I would say too that the I. So you mentioned that you wanted to join and like, make the most of it. When I joined B school, I was too shy to post in that group. I can tell you that A lot of the people who were really successful today posted in that group. And at the time, what we're talking about is an online community. It doesn't exist any. I mean, it still exists, but it's not really a B school hosted group anymore. Which is again, another story for another day. But it's um, it was like, imagine

Speaker A: joining a group and you're brand new to all of these things, right? And sales, online marketing, all these things. And it's got a hundred thousand people or something in it and they're all got these shiny toys. I mean, some of the most, like there are famous brands that took B school, you know, like, uh, the 30 day smoothie challenge. People then became really a famous brand. They were in B school. So when you're watching them post their things, you're thinking to yourself, like, like, how will I ever get there? But the, the answer is like one. You eat an elephant. One bite at a time, one day at a time, one task at a time, one collaboration at a time, one conference, one event, one whatever, one dm, um, where you reach out to Melissa Berkheimer and you're like, oh my God, I saw your design and you are brilliant. You know, that's so sweet.

Speaker B: You got to do. I know. And that's a part of the thing too. Like with your own work, with what you and I do, because it's not technically for our own brain. And when you work for people, a lot of times you have to sign an NDA or the card's open for like three minutes and then it's. It's hard to kind of maximize that. So that's kind of one of my goals. This. Not kind of. It's one of my goals is here to figure out how to better share my work and tell the stories. Because I could tell them to you if you asked me. But anyway, so what.

Speaker A: So, uh, that talks to. Speaks to branding. Right. You weren't allowed to share your brand, so that was the hard thing. And I think it's been hard to pivot from that because you were sort of gagged or silenced. So you are. Are not used to doing that. Right. Because you were a behind the scenes kind of, you know.

Speaker B: Sorry, uh, you just gave me a big ol. Aha. I was gagged in silence. The guy was.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, literally. So that's why. So I have a background also in like. Like, I'm a very spiritual person. I happen to be a Christian and I. And I'm a life coach too, actually. I didn't tell that story. It's a whole another. I, uh, think we have. We need a part two. But I thought I was going to do life coaching online instead of copywriting and business consulting and. Because I'd been doing business consulting in my day job and I wanted to get away from everything related to my day job. Right. So I was like, life coaching is going to be the thing. And there's a lot around. Like when you are told that, you know, there's an NDA and you need to hide and all that stuff, even your body hides. Like the body feels it, you know, like, and. And when you're told you're gagged and you're silenced, it's like there's a little bit of shame too. So it keeps you kind of in the hiding posture for a long time. Unless we like, uncover. Excavate that. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so if you had been able to share your brand, if you had been able to do for clients what you. What you do for clients, if you'd been able to do it for yourself, we would have been able to bridge that gap that you're talking about a lot easier.

Speaker B: Yeah. And again, it's more also like, I just don't want attention. Like, when you're saying these nice things to me, I'm like, that's so nice of you, but I don't want to talk about me. I want to talk about you.

Speaker A: Right. And I can pivot. So I have one more thing to add before we go on to talk about me. I'm here. I'm here and happy to talk about myself. Is this idea of being gagged, this thing of NDAs. This. So the. I don't want to make this a gender thing. I'm not, like, into that. Like, I'm not into divisions over gender and all these things, politics, blah, blah, blah. Please, like, put all that out of your head when I say this. But it's more of, like, a socialization thing. The men in our industry are able to set their terms and people respect them. We need to actually practice that. So I'm. I'm going to bring in an example of my own where I was gagged in a way where I did all this work and. Oh, no, I. Before I started, I said, I want my name at the bottom in the. In the. Is that section called of, uh, a page footer.

Speaker B: The footer design credit. Uh, or you get creative credit.

Speaker A: Yeah, creative credit. And I want. I want a royalty. So this is an industry standard, Melissa, for your work, for my work. For the work of anybody that does anything related. When the sales come in and your words have worked and your design has people calling to say, I bought because this thing is so legit. The words and the design married together. Sold the offer. I'm in. You deserve not just, uh, handshakes and clapping. You also deserve the compensation. And that's a conversation for also another day. But it's one that I really want us to open in our industry because it is actually not the norm to be NDA'd and put into behind the scenes, the male copywriters, for example, in my industry, someone like Jim Edwards or.

Speaker B: I can't think of one that comes to mind.

Speaker A: Yeah, they would charge those and not get any kickback because the person knows that. So there's something that's missing in the way that we as women are articulating our value that we. That is, is not linking. And it's something that we really need to work on. And as your friend, that is our next assignment.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. And listen, I learned that also. So I heard Kevin Rogers on the Copywriter Club podcast, Big Thing.

Speaker A: Oh, I've been on there.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've been on there too, and I've been to one of their events. It was great. And I think they're. They're doing a lot of great things for Kira actually did interview me for the first episode of this show and again, I think for episode 100, but I heard him say on a podcast that he had someone who. It was a friend who. The retainer for the project, I don't know anything about the project was $20,000 and you had to pay a Deposit. I think the deposit was $20,000. I don't remember. And you had to pay the deposit. And you have to start on this date. If you're not ready, you forfeit that deposit. And that to me, like. And that kind of opened my eyes to, like, what I should be doing and, um, what I should be charging because. To Cora Davis. Do you know her? I'm sure you know her. She's a. Not her. Not her. It wasn't her. Sorry. She. I don't know her. One of her designers who I had on the show, Amber Crudup, told me that you're supposed to be charging for design. You're supposed to be charging for the service and for the asset assets. The assets are yours as the designer and, like, it's two different things. But I didn't have traditional, like, agency experience. I just started my business working for 20 an hour for anyone who would pay me. No goal, except for take my kids to and from school, make a little bit of money to maybe pay myself and just pay my bills and do some work and be happy. That's all I. I mean, I had. Just to be clear, I had a partner who. I still have a partner who has a good job and benefits and the whole thing, but that was kind of my role. And now I'm shifting into something much bigger. And anyway, so I want to know what you're doing now.

Speaker A: So these days, I. I still. I think the copy will always be there for me. Right. So still teaching copywriting, um, because that is an essential skill. AI is here, and it's not going anywhere. And you can tell AI to. To write your sales page, and you'll get a sales page. Will your conversions look great? I don't know. I don't know. It depends on how well you can train your AI it still needs work, right? It's not an automatic thing. It's not like, let the AI do the work for you. You can tell when someone gives you a proposal that was written by AI because it doesn't have any personality. It is so mechanical, and it doesn't have, uh, a distinctive voice. Can you teach the AI a voice? Absolutely. You can do that, too. So these are things where, like, teaching people how to write now goes from give me your best voice first, your. Even your worst first draft, and then from there. But you need to at least understand what elements need to be in that first draft. You need to understand that, like, copy needs attention and interest and desire and then an invitation. Right? Like, in the sequence of how you write Your material still need to understand all the technical elements of how to persuade someone to purchase your thing. So you can't rely blindly on AI. So as uh, you know, you might think that I'm saying that because I'm a copywriter and at first all the copywriters were so intimidated by the idea of AI, but a lot of companies, I've actually done some freelancing for companies which have asked me to use the AI to hurry up. Right. And but like you're the copywriter so you know what's going to look good and they're still willing to pay good money for you to like edit AI. So that's interesting too. So I still do that. And for people who are scared of what's going to happen to their jobs, get creative, figure out how to use what you know to do with a changing industry. You know, like it's important to know how to pivot as things are moving because otherwise if I was like, uh, AI is here. I throw the towel in. Everything I've ever done and said and taught is now obsolete. No, that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen overnight. Like when they introduced the first Model T pickup. It doesn't mean all horse and carriages were thrown away that day. Right. It was like a time where both coexisted and that's what's happening with AI and copywriting. So I'm still teaching and writing for entrepreneurs at times. But more I am on a strategic and a higher level. I wouldn't say higher level but like a uh, top down approach, high uh, level strategy of let's set out your strategic plan and goals for the year or for your launch or for whatever it is and bring in a holistic team and approach to execute whatever it is that you want to do or whatever it is that you want to get, want to launch. So I have some partners who help me with PR and marketing because that's a big part of it. And I think when we're online we forget like there's a lot of big part of the population that's not online that would still check their local newspaper or their, you know, the uh, channel 3, 4, 5 news and things like that. So tapping back into traditional or old media is something that I've branched back into. I've, I'm also doing some like as part of that, part of 360Strategy that I'm offering. Communication strategy and planning is like speaking training, sales training, all the things that go into becoming confident with your words, everything that has to do with your Communication and your words is what I'm doing. So at the moment I'm consulting for, interestingly enough, the cannabis industry in Vermont for retailer and that and also a big project that's happening in South Africa that is designed to get creatives like artists, actors, music producers, people like that painters in to get them to digitally transform to catch us in this century, get themselves online and learn business skills that support their creative endeavors. And that's more of a passion project, but it's paid work as well. It's part of my portfolio of work.

Speaker B: Got it. What's one thing that you would like to tell younger Tupsy?

Speaker A: This is such a good question and unexpected. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. I don't know. Okay. I would say guard yourself, guard your heart. Like, you are so trusting. You are so naive. Uh, you are so ignorant. Not everybody looks at the world the way that you look at it. Not everybody is going to do what you were going to do to repair a wrong. Not everybody is like you. And that's okay. The world is diverse. Just open your eyes and be aware that the world is diverse and be smarter about everything. So when you get online, guys, if you're a newbie online or maybe you're a veteran, you might see that it's possible to make quick and really good money online. Have had big launches. Big to me, you know, not big compared to some other people. But that's another important thing. Compare yourself to yourself, right? Compare your launch to your last launch instead of, um, to the next person's thing. Like stay in your lane. That's another thing to tell younger Tepsi. But you know, you have the opportunity to make big money. Use that money to make yourself more money in less risky ways and preserve your assets. Guys, get a financial planner early. Figure out what your steps are, figure out your taxes. I know this is all like, so, like, what's the word? It's uh, it seems boring. Admin. Practical. It's all the non sexy things. Take care of those first. Pay yourself first. Be a business. Like be a business. That's what I would say. Like, don't. This is not cute. This is not a hobby. This is not an after school project. This is your life. That's.

Speaker B: I like that. Is there anything else you wanted to share that we haven't already talked about?

Speaker A: I have a question for you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So as an expert in design and someone who's worked in UX and you know, the different aspects of having digital presence, someone who understands funnels sales, ads, whatever is going on in the industry right now, I want to know. This is like, I've never done this before on a podcast, but I want to know what you think are the really exciting industry trends for the year and what's like, not really cool anymore and what design things we should look out for coming up.

Speaker B: What industry?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, I guess online marketing in general, Digital marketing in general. But maybe coaches, because that's who maybe listens to you. I don't know. Who's your audience?

Speaker B: Ah, it's really. I have a lot of designers, but there's like a lot of copywriters, project managers, marketers, web developers, and then there's a lot of founders. I found a lot of people who have a presence online and a brand. And I think that the trend for 2024 would be just like they said, that the word of the year was authenticity. Merriam Webster had some type of, you know, they had some, I don't know the official proclamation of what they said, but it was authenticity. And I think the days of my seven step, seven figure magic formula will solve your problem and change. Your life is over. We've, uh, People have moved past that for the most part. And anytime I see it, I'm like, I just, I. It doesn't even align with me anymore. And I think that that was the thing I was chasing for so long, which was like other people's big financial dreams. Not that I don't have big financial terms of my own, but just in a completely different capacity. And I think as far as design goes, like, everything right now I'm seeing is very like baked text. It's very retro. Early 2000s 90s is popular. Lots of colors with the. I forget the name of it. I'm, um, good. I'm such a great graphic designer over here, um, where there's like hues of different colors streamed into one thing, you know, And I think for. I think it's different for personal brands and for, you know, DTC or like bigger, bigger brands. You know, it's going to be different. But I think the thing that we're seeing the most is authenticity. People wanting like a real connection, people wanting to understand like, that I saw someone say something, and I really even hate to say anything bad about anybody, but they were saying that they were disappointed that. And I'm not saying it, someone else said it. They were disappointed that they didn't see Beyonce doing any personalized tutorials or anything with her new hair care line that she just launched.

Speaker A: Oh, you know, she.

Speaker B: And. But she. But I thought.

Speaker A: But I thought.

Speaker B: The other thing that I think is really trendy right now, especially with millennials, is nostalgia. Like there was again, I don't know.

Speaker A: I have a millennial, I have a, well, Gen Z daughter, and she's all about like the 90s. She wasn't even alive for it.

Speaker B: But yeah, then, yeah, it was so long ago for them. But the nostalgia, like, she. The. The waitlist page, what I. That I thought was really cool that they did was literally a video of her mom doing her hair because her mom had a hairstylist. So I think they did really, really great with the storytelling about how she grew up, you know, in the hair salon with her mom and her mom's a hairstylist. And, you know, like you were saying, I wish I was more educated in this. I'm not. Black women in their hair is like the most precious thing, especially to them. You know what I mean? I didn't even know that it was different, but the fact that she was kind of telling that story, I think they did really great. It. But people were saying that, you know, when any other celebrity Rion, even Scarlett Johansson, who has no social media herself, like, she does a lot of tutorials for her skincare brand. Um, and actually her husband, Colin Jost, did some really, really funny ones. If you. He hosts, He's. Does the news update on Saturday Night Live. He's really funny. And so.

Speaker A: Right, right, right.

Speaker B: He has like, if you haven't watched anything online, like, Google Colin Jostle Skincare. There's two videos and they're really hilarious. I think they're hilarious, but just more people want to see the authenticity. We want to see the nostalgia. We want to celebrate where we've come. I think it's less words, more pictures, more design. And does that answer your question?

Speaker A: It does. Because my follow up was going to be. Can you. Can you inform me. Can you inform us with the copy? I think this is one of the most important conversations I've ever had online. And I want. I'm actually asking for a part two, because the next conversation I would like to have with you and I'm like, putting you on the spot, you might be like, oh, hell no. That was a disaster. I don't want you back. But the audience heard me.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to do a part two. We just got to do it so I can get them out at the same time.

Speaker A: So the next question I was going to ask is how does that inform the copy? And I want really, for us to have really open conversations about how to work strategically. Because I've had. So I had a designer get upset with me for adding my thoughts, like, my design notes, whatever, like, for saying, you know, this or that. It's not that I was giving her, like, uh, instructions. You know, I was just like, here's what I think could help you. Because I'd seen designers get my copy, and if I didn't do anything to. To show where breaks should be or where text should change or where we should have a graph, like, one thing I learned from your pages was, like, the breaking up of text and creative weights, right? So one section has bullets as a way to break up. Another section has a table as a way to break up. Another section has you create, like, a section with six, um, which is, like, a rectangle that has, like, six squares in it and that has, like, little. Each square has a little info and a little picture. That's really cute. And it was the way that you broke it down very organically on the page that was Kimra's was something that, like, I literally sat and studied and looked at and was like, oh, my God, I think I see something. I didn't go to copywriting school. I didn't, like, learn this any. I actually learned by going and reviewing all the work I could find online and figuring out what the common denominators were and then doing it right. So you have no idea how many people probably have been taught through that experience. And I'm really excited for the coming year and the, you know, beyond. And I think what you shared is really awesome. Thank you very much for answering my question.

Speaker B: And, uh, we will talk soon.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. For anybody who's looking for me, you can find me on t dot com. That's T for Tango, E for Echo. P S I I dot com.

Speaker B: Got it. All right. And we will link to that in the show notes. Thank you, Tepsi. Thank you. All right, bye. Hey there, Melissa.

Speaker A: Here.

Speaker B: I wanted to first of all say thank you for listening to this entire episode of the Design Business show. If you like what you heard, make sure you, uh, hit subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen so we can help spread this message further. And because you listened all the way to the end, I have a special gift for you. It is my sales page Trello Board. It is a template you can use that provides a copy outline, an offer checklist, design samples, and a process map that you can use to create your next sales page and break records for your next launch. My community is going crazy for it and they are loving it and I can't wait to give it to you. To get access, all you have to do is go to melissa berkheimer.com sales page toolkit, enter your name and email, confirm your email and before you know it, the Trello board with directions and design samples and all the goodness will be in your inbox. Thanks again for listening. Bye.