Greatest Hits pt 2

Speaker A: On today's episode, we'll be continuing our conversation for a few weeks ago. We'll be revisiting some of our favorite episodes and also talking about some of the changes that have happened at ArcMed because of these conversations that we've had. This podcast is brought to you by archimed. Fast and Focused design and Manufacturing.

Speaker B: I'm Greg Maurer, founder and owner of archimed.

Speaker A: And I'm Caroline Squatrigo, Talent engagement specialist. We are on a journey to grow, learn and gain expertise in small to mid size company culture. Join us. I get to ask this question, what is the question of the day today?

Speaker B: Well Caroline, the question of the day is a little bittersweet. So our last episode, we began, uh, going over all the learnings from the last year, uh, and a half or so, including some tangible changes we've made at work in acknowledgment of these learnings so that our culture could improve, uh, from this journey that you and I are on together. Um, and uh, when we sat down and started talking about the remaining questions, we realized, uh, we went through uh, the majority of the questions that we had. Um, obviously we're still going to learn and grow culturally and continue to ask questions. Um, but the meat of our journey is behind us and uh, embodied in all these wonderful podcast episodes. So, uh, the bitter is that this is our last the Culture Thesis podcast episode. Um, and the sweet is that we've learned, uh, a great deal and that for the rest of this episode we're going to cover part two of what we've learned and the changes we've made. And our hope, I can speak for you, I think, is that um, the listeners have enjoyed number one what we've done and hopefully have made one or more positive differences in their lives, in their companies, vis a vis their colleagues based on what they learned from this podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would second that, Greg. Um, and I will throw this out there. We don't know what, what's gonna, what everything the future will bring for us. So I could foresee whether it's two years, three years, who knows down the line where we have a lot more questions that start popping up and maybe we'll throw out a surprise episode. But, um, for now I think it's time to kind of close, close the book on this. I'm very happy that we did it and I know that we both learned a lot. But I also think it's time in the spirit of, you know, why we set out to do this, it's time to, to End on. On a note that we feel like we've learned a lot rather than, you know, keep dragging out and answering questions.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, uh, your comment leads me to the first learning, uh, um, of this episode, which is culture is not static. So, uh, we went through this process. Uh, we probably doubled the size of our company from an employee perspective. And we talked about in one of our episodes how culture, uh, can't be static. You can't have the same culture at, say, 50 employees as you do at 500. Uh, it must change. And so through our growth, we. Now, one of the changes we made was, uh, instead of figuring out how do we preserve our culture as we grow, the change we made was thinking about it differently, which is how do we guide the, uh, evolution of our culture, um, as we grow rather than avoid its inevitable change? Guide it and expect the change.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, and evolve with the company. So, I mean, we touched on values a few times in the last episode as well. And I think that those are the pillars. Right. Um, and we can always revisit them and say, maybe we need to apply these a little bit differently because we've grown a little bit or a lot, or maybe our. Our environment has changed. You never know. Um, but I think that that gives us some, um, you know, kind of like a guiding light into what our goals are. But then we also have to be aware that maybe our people's needs have changed. Maybe the company has pivoted to a point where, um, we just need to offer something different from a cultural perspective. And what we've been doing is no longer serving people. Um, I think we have to keep in mind that culture is there for the people. Um, it's not there because the, you know, it marries kind of the company's direction and what our people need. Um, and as long and when it's not serving anybody, you know, it, that's when it becomes toxic. Right? So to have it, we don't want to be dead set on keeping a specific culture because, you know, that bed is going to become stale pretty quickly and. And people aren't going to be enjoying it the same way anymore.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So we have to be aware that things are going to change and be okay with that.

Speaker B: And, um, if and when we buy another company to join the Arcimid family, we can apply the learning that there's no one size fits all culture. Right. We had, uh, Mickey, uh, uh, come on and tell us about how different the culture was at the bank where he was involved versus the radio stations. And, uh, that's important to remember. We also had somebody, uh, was it Randy Brown M perhaps that talked about uh, beer Fridays?

Speaker A: Yes, that was Randy.

Speaker B: Right. And so culturally in this, I can't remember, maybe it was California or mountain town in Colorado or something like that. It was really important culturally for them to get together and have a beer, uh, on Friday. And, and they wanted to make sure that the buttoned up culture that was acquiring them wouldn't uh, uh, force their culture on them, but respect the culture that they had established. So one size does not fit all.

Speaker A: No. And I mean, there's no right answer. Um, and I think we've made that mistake of trying to impose our culture on a company that it was not compatible with their people. Their people wanted something different. And we were over here like. But our culture is so great. It's wonderful and it's a recipe for failure. Um, I think we can attest to that. So being flexible and being open is key. Um, we love our culture, but not everybody will. And it's not for everyone. And that's okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. One thing that's, that's got to be part of the culture, whether you are at 5 or 50 or 500 employees, is ethics.

Speaker A: Ethics.

Speaker B: We had a couple episodes that touched on ethics.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yes. I think, um, you know, even when I think about our episode with Paul Ashley and talk about listening and how important it is to um, really hear what people are saying, um, even then we said there is always a line. Right. And the lying is ethics. Um, so for Archimed, being a manufacturing company, um, um, it, it runs throughout every piece of what we do. We also have a quality department. And I almost look at them at times as, you know, they make sure that they're holding everyone accountable. In our case that means making sure we're delivering to our customers what we said we were supposed to deliver and that it's something safe to use. Um, and that's one way to look at it. It's also how we treat our employees, how we treat our vendors. Um, you know, it's also to you know, Mickey's point, not engaging with companies that don't have the ethical standard that we uphold. Right. Um, and that's another piece of it too. I think that we want to be able to be proud of the Archimede name. Um, and that's a big piece of it is knowing that, that we have a high ethical standard and certain lines that we will never cross. Because whether it's illegal or unethical, it's just not something we're willing to do.

Speaker B: Yeah. And we started to, uh, make a change within our organization by making that philosophy explicit. So finance understands that, uh, while some costs of good ethics can be recouped through, uh, reputational improvements and goodwill and things like that, some won't. Some just won't be recouped, and that's okay. And so they understand that, uh, business Development understands also that a profitable, uh, ah, a company that's, um, unethical is not something we want. We rather lose the profits and retain our, uh, ethical reputation. And so we made that explicit because these folks are measured on controlling costs and building revenue. And so we wanted to make sure that when we measure them on those things, we do it with the concept of ethics, uh, uh, in the forefront of how we, uh, view their efforts. So, um, I want to hear more about your thoughts on, uh, Paul Ashley's the Art of Listening, which I think is absolutely crucial and so difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, when Paul came on, he was clearly the extrovert that this show probably needs. Um, because you have Greg and I, who are on the introverted side, and people don't know this, but we talk to our guests a little bit before we start recording. And he just dove right in. Like, I've never felt like I was immediately friends with someone more than when we talked to Paul Ashley.

Speaker B: You're like, hit the record button.

Speaker A: I know. I was like, gavin, I think we already started. I don't know what's happening. But. So, um, for one, he was a joy to have on. Um, but, you know, his big thing was the key to being a good listener. Right. Is being genuinely curious about things, um, and asking questions. And rather than, you know, trying to force a question of like, oh, I have to come up with a question. What am I going to ask? You know, it's like, well, no, you. You need to be a curious person and practice that curiosity, um, and ask engaging questions of people about who they are, what they do, you know, what types of projects they're working on, whatever it is, to get. To get to the meat of who they are. But then you have to listen. Right? Like, I think a lot of times when we're talking to somebody, we're like, waiting to make our next point. Um, and so we talk too about like, no, when you're actively listening, you're listening to what they're saying and responding to what they're saying, not just saying what you want to say. Um, so those were two things I took out of it.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's this giant gap between when you're done speaking and when I begin to respond after listening to you, uh, that's uncomfortable. But in truth it's five or 10 seconds, maybe it's 20 seconds where you're thinking about something before responding. And if it's longer than that, you say, well, give me a second to think about that because it's a really great point. And so we learned about these tools and one of the things that's come out of that is that we've highlighted how important it is to be a listener, especially if you're in leadership, because you want to make sure that everyone's voice is heard and uh, heard by you, heard by leadership. And so one of the things that we're putting together is ah, an EQ training, uh, a component of which will be how to be a great listener. Um, and um, that should be on top of a prior training we did which was about how to be a great communicator. So I think we learned a lot and we made some changes to highlight how important it is to be a good listener.

Speaker A: Well, and I think a lot of what we talked about with Paul, um, reminds me of the book Multipliers that we reviewed. Um, and one of the big things that connects, um, the two for me is, you know, if you're asking somebody for their feedback, you have to be 100% bought in that what they say is a valuable contribution. Right? So you have to be open that your idea may not be the best idea and really buy into that. Um, and I feel like multipliers, it's, you know, one of the keys to being a multiplier as a manager is just shutting up, listening. Right? Like ask a question and then stop talking and really receive what people are saying, um, and buy into their inputs. Um, and that's one way to help people feel like built up when they leave you rather than, I mean diminished is the word that they use. But yeah, feeling like small and diminished and not valued. Um, you want to make people feel like bigger and more excited about things, um, when they're done interacting with you.

Speaker B: I thought that book was ah, a game changer for me. Uh, and we've made some changes in light of that. Um, one of which is that um, we look for everybody's innate genius. I can't remember the phrase that the book used that might be the phrase innate genius, um, and really empower them to do what they're really good at and what they like. And it takes a lot of effort as a manager to think about each of your reports and what their innate genius might be and start to restructure things. And our CEO, John, has done a fantastic job of empowering folks to move from one department to another. That isn't necessarily logical where you might move from materials to quality, or you might move from receiving to machining or what have you, because that's where their innate genius is, and that's so empowering. Um, the other thing is that, uh, when I read that book and I thought it was like a weight on my shoulders, I felt so horrible because I had been in this particular situation, which was our story time with Jim Buchanan, a, uh, diminisher on his board of directors. And at the time, I thought my role was to my. The way I should add value was to bring the right answers to the discussion. So if I had the right answer, then I was needed. I made a difference, and then I proved my value. And so they were happy that I was there. In truth, though, it's much less important whether I have the right answer, and much more important, uh, is whether we, as a group, leave the meeting with the right answer. And so that was a big change for me, and I hope I'll never look back and find another instance, at least from this point on, of being a diminisher.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, as much as this book points out, um, times where we have been diminishers, I think the other, um, kind of freeing thing is. And they talk about this, I don't think anybody is, like, always a multiplier. Right. There's very few people who are just inherently naturally, always in multiplier, fire, mog. And that's something that we should always strive to be. But I think the first thing is, you know, us saying, okay, I have diminished your tendencies, and now I have some stuff to work on. Um, and having that conversation, I think it opens up the door to even talking to your peers about it. Say, like, hey, I think I'm doing this. Can you, you know, Paul challenged me. We were talking about my tone. But we could do it with, you know, being a diminisher, too. You know, please tell me when I'm doing this and stop me and say, hey, you're not listening to my ideas. Um, and you're very focused on having your own idea win. And I think that's empowering for the people around you to hear that you want that feedback.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, I'm going to probably, uh, make a note to reread that book. Uh, I took a lot of notes, and on occasion, I take my notes out and take A look at them. I think it's such a powerful book. Um, how about Culture Shock? And this. Really, the changes we made from this learning were in your department.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, we. I think we knew that this was happening, but didn't know quite what to do about it. Um, in our space, you know, in the manufacturing space, we tend to have a very different culture than, um, a lot of our peer organizations. Um, we tend to rely on a lot more personal accountability and a lot less on very rigid structure from our management team. Um, and that, you know, people can love it, which, you know, that's great if they do. Um, and it can also make people feel really uncomfortable. Um, we have hired people who've spent, you know, 20 years in manufacturing, and they come in, and suddenly they have all of this freedom to manage their time, and they don't always know what to do with it. It makes them uncomfortable sometimes. Um, and so what we did to try to, you know, get on the front end of this was one, be, like, very transparent about our culture. So we recognize that when we're in an interview with somebody, we have a bias in favor of our culture. Right. I have a tendency to talk it up, talk about how great it is. Typically, the people in the interview are all bought in. And as much as I love that, you know, we want to be honest about some things that maybe won't mesh all with people or we've seen people not agree with always. Um, and so we came up with these cultural tenets that we review in an interview. And then also, you know, we put them in our onboarding material just as a reminder, you know, these are the expectations coming into this organization. Um, and just to be aware of that when you're here to help get it on in their minds on the front end, um, and give them some clarity on that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that was a big one. Uh, and we also can think back to hires that might have been more successful had we addressed cultural shock on the front end.

Speaker A: Well, that young people who maybe would have known before they accepted an offer that they did not want to work for us. Um, I think about that a lot, too, because as much as I don't want to lose a hire, um, I also don't want to onboard someone that, one, won't be happy here. Right. Because that's not good for anyone. And two, will just be, like, fighting the whole time with. With what's expected. So I also think it's a win if people say, you know what? You know, I've enjoyed talking with you, I don't think this is right for me. Um, while that might be an ego hit to us, it's better in the long run.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. Um, we talked also about the, um. We had a couple sort of academic dives into culture. You know, at the top of the prior episode, you mentioned about understanding the different aspects of culture and what the definition of culture is. But one of the things I really enjoyed was the neurological component of group size and how that impacts culture. And I thought that was fascinating. And, uh, that we probably previously had ignored, um, the neurological, uh, wiring of humans. Um, and maybe, uh, our success, uh, culturally maybe suffered a little bit. But now we take a look at those group sizes and we start to think, okay, well, how big should this group be? So, for example, we're planning, uh, um, um, a summertime party for our, excuse me, Employees and families. You know, how big should that group be? You know, should it be a squad of four to six? Um, very nimble. Um, you know, if we're at eight, will it split up into two? And now we have committees. I mean, these neurological pieces, uh, help. Help us a bit. And I think we figured it was going to be a 4 to 6 group. Right. As an example.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So for this we, we settled on four. Um, and I think that'll allow us. You know, I think we talked about when a group gets too big, like you said, it splits up so well, I mean, we'll put it to the test. But I think 4. 4 is a good planning committee number.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I was at a dinner last night for somebody's 50th, uh, birthday. And, um, I think there were nine people there. And there was clearly not one conversation that everyone was, uh, part of. Um, and it split up into a group of five and a group of four, obviously, because where they receded too. But that's part of the neurological. And I just got a kick out of that. I was looking around thinking this is an example of that. So I thought that would be good.

Speaker A: I've been to Dingers at your house too, but typically, um, where we break up, but typically it's the bourbon drinkers who end up with, ah, an after dinner in the kitchen. And everyone else is just kind of like, you know, giving us the okay, whatever, go have fun.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad I'm in that group.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Me too.

Speaker B: Um, so what do we call our employees? That big group of people.

Speaker A: I'm glad you brought this up. Cause if you didn't, I was going to, um, I don't. So thankfully Gavin stepped in and did a great job with this episode. Thank you, Gavin. Um, and, and sounded to me like, you know, he kind of kept you in check, Greg, so that was good. Um, I think, um, I don't feel like we got a definitive answer other than it was another, you know, like whatever works for your company kind of thing and what, whatever people want. Um, I mean I, I really stand by a team. I think it has the aspect of we're all working towards a common goal. Um, it also has the flexibility of, you know, sometimes teams need to change and evolve a little bit so that we can keep working towards that goal. Um, and you know, we have really go diving into the team. We can have like the coach who's like, you know, our executive committee who's, you know, they're always trying to help us grow and giving us training and all of that. Um, I mean I've been pretty outspoken about my issues with family. But Greg, I don't know where you fall on this still.

Speaker B: Well, um, words matter. That's one thing I learned. Um, I think it relates back to not necessarily when you were born, but where and how under what circumstances the words might mean something different to you. And um, Archimed does feel like a family to me. Um, I don't, uh, you know, I've worked at other places and I don't care about the colleagues, uh, in the same way I do, um, how I feel about the Archimed associates. So it's definitely something more than a team. I've been on teams too, but it's something less than a family for most people. For me it's very familial. Um, and where I sit in the organizational chart, that might make more sense than, than somebody else who, uh, might not feel that way. Um, but despite the fact that for me it's familial and it feels like a family, I understand that it's not that way for everyone. And so I haven't figured it out. I don't know if there's really a word for it. I mean, it's the lesser of evils. I mean to me it's made up. There's a lot of teams within Arkhamed.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but it's something larger than that. I just don't know whether there's a word for it.

Speaker A: Well, and you know, I, I played, I played a lot of sports growing up and I, you know, I had some very dysfunctional teams. I also had some very close knit teams. So maybe that's why I'm more comfortable with the team. Um, verbiage. I do get what you're saying because, um, I will say, like, I genuinely care about my co workers. I know that you do too, Greg. And I, I don't think that we are the exception. I think most people at Archimed really care about each other. Um, and that's where the familial stuff comes in. Um, I don't think family is a bad word. I do think it's something that other companies have at times using in more of a manipulative way, unfortunately. Um, and it kind of has this, like, toxic, um, air around it, just in the general, you know, workplace culture scene. Um, and so I don't think it's bad if we call ourselves a family. Um, I think we have to be careful about how we're defining that, I guess. Um, just given people may have had bad experiences with another company that said, oh, we're a family, so we expect, you know, all this much more out of you because we're a family. Right? Like, we're going to get it done, you know, and that's not how we are. Um, so. So I think it's all how you apply it.

Speaker B: If you think about some of the instances of interactions among our employees. For example, uh, one of our M employees needed, um, an intervention of sorts. And another employee, uh, who didn't know this person all that well, um, jumped in and said, how can I help you? Um, another person was moving, uh, who helped that person move, um, their family members at Archimed, Um, you know, that's, that's what people do. Um, there was another example where someone needed a place to stay for a couple weeks because they were in between. You know, one lease was up and they were trying to close on a house. They stayed with a co worker. You know, I think some of that stuff is pretty amazing. And, um, I stand by the idea that it's. If it's not a family, it's something more than a team. And maybe I'll just have to keep thinking about the right word for it.

Speaker A: Well, I think you're winging me over, Greg. I will say I think you're slowly chipping through my cold exterior. Um, but I think that I think we have some people who have been with us for a very long time and also some new people who fully jumped in with two feet to this idea of the Archimedeg family. And you have brought up some great examples because, you know, we have helped people. When I say we I don't just mean you and I. I mean, you know, other. Everyone at Archimed has helped people with truly personal things, um, that have nothing to do with work. Um, and we've had people come to us for help for things that have nothing to do with work. Um, and I think that's where the family aspect comes in. I do think we have a lot of people who had never come to us with some of this stuff, and that's okay, too. Um, but I do think, um, I would say we've accomplished something great just in the fact that we do have people who feel comfortable enough to reach out to someone at ArcMed, whether it's us or a co worker or anyone else for help when they need it in that type of a scenario.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think, uh, the drawback to family is that it implies a sense of permanence that clearly doesn't exist in a work environment. So I get that too. I will say this. If one day you leave Archimed to pursue other opportunities and you call me 10 years later, I'd be thrilled to take your call and help you in any way I can.

Speaker A: I think that's the difference. Yeah. And I'll say, you know, John's officiating my wedding, and my dad is very much a, like, separation of church and state. So he is always, you know, he loves that, Archimedes, the way it is. And he's always like, I could never do it like that. So when I told him, he was like, what if you leave Arkham at, like, what happens? And I said, dad, at this point, if I leave Arkhamed, you know, either I did something bad enough that it was my fault to mess up, and I only have myself to blame, which I don't see that happening. I don't know. Um, or, you know, I've moved on, and I know Greg and Kevin and John enough to know that they would support that, you know, um, and so I think that, you know, maybe that ties into your. Gives you an argument towards family, Greg, if you want to use that, well,

Speaker B: stay in the family a little bit longer. Don't move on too soon.

Speaker A: I don't have any plans. Don't worry.

Speaker B: So, uh, overall, we learned a ton. And I think I grew as a leader. I think you did, too. Uh, I, um, grew as a human, really. Um, I think we interact better with folks at work. I think I interact better with folks outside of work. We may not have a ton of podcast listeners, but we have this journey. And, um, despite the fact that the podcast is sunsetting. At least for now. You and I are still going to be on this journey, and we're still going to look forward to continuously improving our culture, and we're still going to look to continuously improve as leaders and humans and be the best cultural ambassadors we can be.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I, I think that this. This was something I was hesitant to get into. It's very outside my own comfort zone. Um, but I'm so happy that we did it. Um, and I also think we're ending it at the right time. But I, I would not have learned everything that I learned without this podcast. I can say that. And I also think that if we had just sat down and said, you know, even if we just reach out to experts to talk or we. We dig our own, like, research online, I don't think we would have learned as much as we did, um, by having these conversations. And I also love that it's documented in some way, um, so that we can look back on it, um, and we can have it out there, um, hopefully to help other people as well. Um, so, yeah, it's definitely bittersweet, that's for sure. But I'm glad that we were able to do this.

Speaker B: And not to be trite and use the word of the day, but I got a lot of fulfillment out of this effort. And, uh, it took a decent amount of time, uh, to prepare for and successfully execute. And I think it was time well spent. And I really, uh, believe that we, as an organization improved and we covered some changes in these last two episodes. And there's a bunch of things we didn't cover and we didn't even get into. Um, the, uh, culture, uh, committee, um, being taken to the woodshed and. And replaced. And there's a whole bunch of other changes.

Speaker A: Poor, Poor Culture Committee.

Speaker B: Yeah, Poor Culture Committee.

Speaker A: It's been reborn. Don't worry, people. In a new light.

Speaker B: But based on one of the things we learned in this podcast. So there's a ton of stuff we didn't cover that we learned from and made change. To, uh, Caroline, I want to say thank you to you. You've been such a wonderful support, uh, to me, uh, because this is definitely outside of my comfort zone. And, uh, you gave me some positive feedback, uh, throughout the podcast, uh, helping me get comfortable that I was hitting the mark. Um, and I appreciate you and love, um, working with you. And then, uh, Gavin and all your predecessors who helped produce this show, um, uh, it wouldn't occur without that effort, uh, and then also specifically for Gavin to jump in and, uh, take the, uh, co host reigns One day was awesome. So thanks, thanks for that and thanks to all of our listeners and to my, uh, my Archimed family and all the associates there. Um, it's just a joy to be, be a part of that, uh, family or that team. Your call.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you, Greg. We would not be here without you. That's, that's a fact. And, um, I know that I would not be here without you personally because of all of the effort that you as well as other people at archimed, have put into helping me grow and also just kind of putting up with me because I can be kind of a pain at times. So thank you, thank you for that. Um, and Gavin, you definitely took the, uh, the intern producer role to a new level. Um, you did a great job with it, and I loved that we were able to close out with you, um, at the, at the helm of everything. Um, and also thank you for putting up with me because I, I mean, you probably hear, hear the most of it from anyone, so hopefully we can end on a happy note, though.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, until, until next time, whenever that might be, uh, everybody out there listening. Have a great, uh, day, week, month, year, and, uh, go do. Sa.