Are We Asking the Right Questions About Our Content?

Speaker A: Welcome to the briefing. Today's report will provide you with the latest insights and analysis regarding the current state of humanized content in our world. You're here because you believe in what humanized content stands for, standing out and truly connecting with the people who matter most. You're also here to help not only defend humanized content, but but maintain it by learning more about the fakes, the threats, and the best examples of it. And we're glad you're here. This is the Human Content Brief. Now here with today's intel, Scott Murray.

Speaker B: Hello, and thank you so much for being here today. This is your Human Content Brief, a report on what's happening in the world of content strategy from a human perspective. Today's briefing includes two examples of how some of our content strategy challenges may not be limited to just marketing problems. Next, we'll talk about how an awkward football game interview provides us with an important reminder about questions, answers, and audience. And finally, we'll ask, do some of the best minds in content marketing make mistakes when they're offering advice? We'll examine that and discuss what that could mean to us. So let's get to page one of the brief. So if you step back and look at our briefing today, you could say that it basically focuses on human behavior and its role in content strategy. And when you hear that, you might be thinking, I'm talking about consumer behavior, you know, because that's a lot of times what we hear people talk about when it comes to content strategy and behavior. We're usually talking about the humans on the other side. But if we're serious about keeping the human element in marketing, we can't just think about the humans on the other side of content and their behaviors. We have to recognize some of our own. Because some of the mistakes we make, mistakes that can sabotage our marketing success, aren't always marketing related factors as much as they are human related factors. Meaning it's just, you know, stuff that we do as human beings that are now at work impacting us at work and impacting our content strategy. Let me give you a couple of examples. When I was working on my first master's degree at Southern Utah University, I was building my degree plan and, you know, I already had to line up things I had to take. So I was kind of in that electives section where you just pick whatever you want out of these options. And this was the very end. I was at my last class that I had to pick and this degree, uh, and these classes were part of their Masters of Interdisciplinary Studies and Professional Communication degree, which was focused on communication in social media, advertising, writing, presentations, a lot of marketing and content related stuff. It also went into the deeper elements of communication to kind of back that up, which was very helpful, like communication theory. And when I got to this last pick, it looked like I was going to have to just throw something in it because at first I didn't think any of these remaining options fit the rest of these other classes because one of them was like pop culture media, which would have been great in the early part of my podcasting career. There was another one in front of me that I also didn't think it was a fit, but it had the word communication in it. So I thought, well, maybe I'll just pick that because it was crisis communication. And I figured, you know, I'm not going to have a lot of my work most likely deal with crisis communications. You know, stepping in during a, uh, company crisis and telling them how to talk with the media. I could probably do that, but it wasn't really the focus of my work and I just didn't think people therefore would hire me for such things. However, by the time I got into the class and started going through all the coursework and assignments, I realized it was a fit. And thank goodness I had this class in my degree plan because everything I was studying in relation to how, uh, content is planned and executed on the business side, how it's interpreted by the people on the outside, it was the same situation. Much of what I was learning here was aligned with what I knew to be true about content marketing. It was just in a crisis context. The human behaviors involved were the same. Instead of marketers getting stuck in old processes and overlooking important details that should inform their content, it was about companies who sometimes were unprepared to respond to a crisis, a lot of which know today can not only spread through traditional media, but also social media, where it never goes away. Sometimes we would see case studies where assumptions were made about the audience response and it backfired. We saw situations where internally companies thought the problem would just go away, so no need to change because it won't be that big a deal. But then it didn't change and it got worse. We read about situations where the response was the problem, but like the company basically was saying they knew better than the audience, or just word choices that were supposed to look like a response really weren't a response at all and they were going to be interpreted by the audience in a way that almost made things worse. I mean, there were just all these different Scenarios that had everything to do with content, communication, word choice. I mean, it was all there. And it's because these were human behaviors that can be so prevalent in a company culture. They can just impact more than just marketing. I'll give you another example. I was invited a few days ago to come to SMU Southern Methodist University in Dallas to talk to a marketing class of seniors who were going to graduate soon. And one of the things they wanted me to talk about was advice for getting a job because that's obviously going to be a big concern from them very soon. Well, really right now, but definitely when they graduate. And, and I think some of them were graduating in December because that was going to be a challenge and it's obviously very intimidating. And at first I wasn't sure about this. I wasn't sure I was the best person for this. I mean, some of my experiences or stories I thought may not align with what they're going to experience today in 2025 or 2026. Plus, I've been out on my own for three years. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a job hunting expert, even when it comes to marketing right now. But then I realized something. When I considered what they were going to have to do to stand out from other resumes, cover letters, candidates, and when I thought about some of the language and word choices that are still used today and how a lot of those words were still being used in those older examples from my job searching experience and how experts say don't use these, along with interview responses that could work against them and so on, I realized I could definitely talk about specific approaches to this, you know, beyond the basics of, you know, have a portfolio and all the stuff people usually tell you. I also realized that if I applied my humanized approach to this content, my humanized communication approach to their job searching strategy and content, it could also carry over into their preparation to be effective marketers. Again, it wasn't content marketing in the typical business sense, but it was going to involve content and communication and they were marketing themselves, not just promoting their skills, but we're talking about how they were going to do it. Were they going to use typical jargon that has been used by candidates for years and does that stand out today? Were they going to default to some of that despite the fact that their audience, which would be hiring managers, recruiters, decision makers, were looking for something different, were wanting something different as so many resumes and cover letters looked the same to them? Had they done the research on that audience to learn about their Experiences as hiring managers, recruiters, decision makers, they were going to shape responses to their content, like resumes and cover letters. For example, if you've spent any time looking at resumes or cover letters, or maybe you've written a few yourself, you've probably seen some of the terms that indeed pointed out that in 2025 you should avoid. But these have been around a long time and the human brain can just default to this because it says that's how you write a resume. We think it just sounds good. We've seen other people do it, you know, it just, we just default to this stuff. So they say you need to watch out for these overly common words. Just like marketing has overly common buzzwords. In this case, they're being told to not use words like strategic thinker, go getter, people, person, experienced professional m, or phrases like think outside the box, proven track record, or works well under pressure. Works well under pressure is also interesting because it is a common phrase. But I think that fits into another thing that I read about when it comes to how these words are being interpreted. Some of these words are being interpreted in ways where they say, this shouldn't be on a cover letter or resume because this should be something you're already good at, like hard worker. Don't say you're a hard worker. We should already assume you're a hard worker or self motivated or, or team player. It made me think about my first advertising job, agency job, which was a recruitment ad agency job and we were working with a big healthcare client. There was only three of us working on it. And one of our challenges when it came to the words we used in our content was the word care. Not because that's not a good word in the healthcare system, but it's a word that should be obvious. It's like, is that really a differentiator? What hospital doesn't say that they care? So very early in my career, I was already being challenged to go, okay, how do we break out from the stuff that everybody else says without just defaulting to it like everybody else does? So we've spent some time here talking about why audiences react to content in a certain way and how they interpret things that they've seen over and over again, or they interpret content and word choices by trying to determine intent. Is this more for them? Is it more for me? You know, is this just about getting content out the door? You know, this was clearly written by AI and so that means they didn't really care about reaching me or helping me. They're just trying to get out there and put content out there to help their business and not really help me. Things like that. Well, shrm. Arizona had this article where they were sharing some of the red flags, things that recruiters didn't like seeing, hiring managers didn't like seeing. And one of the things they don't like was buzzword stuffing and copying pasting from job descriptions. So buzzwords like we just mentioned, and then taking the words from a job description and then just trying to write around them where you're almost perfectly trying to align what you write with what's been written over here, you know, and it's just clear that that's all that's happening, you know, and there's still content to this day. Even content that looks like people are still keyword stuffing, like it's 2012. I mean, there's all kinds of examples, almost indirect signals that content gives the audience that just says this is what they're doing. So I don't need to pay more attention to this. This one quote from the story said, when I see a resume or cover letter overloaded with vague jargon like results oriented team player with strong communication skills but no proof to back it up, that's a red flag. It tells me the candidate is more focused on checking boxes than telling a story. Doesn't that sound like some of the advice? Especially when it comes to authentic content like we hear so much about, or humanized content? They want much more of a human element. They want storytelling. And really what we're talking about here is they want specifics. In other words, just like marketing content that may say, we're the best, we're industry leading, we're all these, you know, great buzzwords. The consumer saying, yeah, who cares? Tell me something more. And then when it comes to standing out, there was this quote here that said, a lack of personality is one of the biggest red flags I look for when reviewing resumes and cover letters. These documents shouldn't feel interchangeable, especially in competitive fields where candidates often have similar qualifications. That just screams some of the challenges that are out there today with content. I've worked with multiple companies in the same industry who are all writing the same content the same way, using the same terminologies, and describing their services the same way to where if you looked at three or four of them on their websites or maybe sometimes their blogs, you wouldn't be able to really differentiate one from the other. They're all using the same language and none of them have the awareness to realize they're all just repeating themselves. I mean, just like we get emails in our inboxes M from newsletters or marketing emails and they're all written in that same way. It's a very similar thing if all these cover letters are coming in written in the exact same format and the terminology saying I'm a results oriented team player with strong communication skills. It's the same thing. Now what about interviews? This is where it also gets kind of interesting. I thought about the scene from the movie Air. Have you seen the movie Air? About how Air Jordans became a thing with Nike and everything they had to do to get Michael Jordan on board to help them developed this shoe with his name and brand on it. Originally in the movie they show that, you know, Jordan and his family were not going to meet with Nike, they were going to go these other places. And Matt Damon, who was playing Sonny Vaccaro, just takes it upon himself to go to his parents house and talk to them. Which was gutsy and risky. Especially since it's clear that Michael Jordan is going to talk to Adidas and Converse. And while Michael Jordan's mother is willing to meet with Sonny, when he shows up at her at her house, and uh, she's played by Viola Davis by the way, she tells him, remember, this is who we're meeting with. But then Sonny says this, I'll tell

Speaker C: you exactly how those meetings are going to go. And if I'm wrong, then, then don't take a meeting with Mikey. But if I'm right, please consider that you and Michael come out. This is Converse, by the way. John o' Neill will have his hair gelled up. A bunch of them will be wearing red ties for the Bulls. John will have a Rolex for sure. Now I've seen a lot of basketball, but the feeling that I get when I see Michael, there's only a few other players who gave me that feeling. Now when he's done, I'd love it if you would ask him a question. How's Michael gonna stand out from these other players? How's he gonna be different?

Speaker B: What about Michael's meeting with Adidas? Michael's top choice is Adidas.

Speaker C: Hello, Mrs. Jordan. Welcome.

Speaker B: You could just tell me.

Speaker C: Okay, sorry. Here's what they'll say. We have the best shoes, plain and simple. All leather, all the kids want to wear them. Converse. Isn't this cool? And I mean this is me talking now and not Adidas. They're not wrong. I get why Michael wants to go there. Here's what you should ask them. Who's running your company? I Think four different people in that room are going to give you four different answers.

Speaker B: And sure enough, when Mrs. Jordan and the family goes to meet with these executives, that's exactly what they say. And she realizes that Sonny was able to perfectly repeat what they were going to say, which makes it feel what? It makes it feel less authentic and genuine. Because now you're thinking, well, this is what they tell everybody. Whereas Sunny was sitting in front of her and having a human to human conversation. And I used this in the presentation because a very similar thing happens. Obviously, these kids aren't going to be pitching a generational sports star and trying to get them to partner with their shoe company, but they were still sitting in front of people that were listening for common answers. And those common answers were going to be red flags. And I will be fully speaking of transparent, I will be fully transparent with you. One of the biggest red flags in a job interview comes from the question, what would you say your weakness is? Have you ever been asked that question? Do you remember what you said? Do you think you've ever used an answer that you heard? Oh, if someone asked you say this? Because I did. I don't know if it was a red flag back then. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But what was I told to say? What did I hear is a good answer? I'm a perfectionist. Uh, it's a thing that you're kind of spinning to be a positive while acknowledging, maybe it's best I shouldn't try to be so good at what I do. I mean, it's genius. But then again, how long has that been going on? Clearly it's still going on because I found it as something not to say. So who knows how many years this has been going on. This ties directly into, again, awareness of what our audience experiences and not getting too comfortable by other things we see and hear. Unless we've done the research to find out. This is new. Okay, good. They haven't been hearing this for 10 years. But really, it's also the principle of the thing. Do we want someone who's giving us the perfect answer, or do we want someone who's just going to be transparent and authentic with us, since we love to use that word today. Speaking of buzzwords, you know, and just tell us. In the cases of the, uh, experts I read, they said, you know, just, just tell us about something that's not detrimental to your work and will always be detrimental. Just talk about something you're working on to get better at and how maybe you're already Getting better at it. Just give us something specific. So another question that tends to come up a lot that they say be careful about, a canned answer is where do you see yourself in five years? And I couldn't help but think of the late, great comedian Mitch Hedberg. I had a job interview at an

Speaker D: insurance company once and the lady said,

Speaker B: where do you see yourself in five years?

Speaker D: I said, celebrating the 50th anniversary of you asking me this question.

Speaker B: Yeah, probably don't want to use that answer. But it's very similar to the answer they say. Don't say. Because it's really easy to say, I see myself working here because you're assuming that's what they want to hear. But really what they're looking for is just show that you've researched the company in a way where you can maybe talk about a growth plan of how you're going to grow and evolve with the company and how you're going to be able to develop your role and apply your skills. Just something other than, well, working here. But here's something I think you'll find interesting if we, if we're going to kind of go back to content. I told them that this works both ways and that there are red flags they should look for when it comes to the company and the content they're putting out in the form of their job descriptions. There are things out there that even experts are telling them, watch out for this. Let me give you some examples. Watch out for the phrase fast paced environment because that could mean it's constant chaos with unrealistic deadlines. Watch out for wear many hats because that could mean a five person job. But it's going to be just you. Work hard, play hard. Probably means you've got a 60 hour work week. But there's pizza parties, there's a snack cart, um, Rockstar, which was really kind of funny because of that ad I think they had in the super bowl where they had members of KISS and others who were getting mad at companies that were using, you know, I'm a rock star. We need a rock star.

Speaker E: Uh, the corporate types. Would you stop calling each other rock stars?

Speaker C: You're a rock star.

Speaker B: You are a rock star. Rock stars, please. You know what it takes to be a rock star? I've trashed hotel rooms in 43 countries. I was on the road since I was 16.

Speaker E: I've done my share of bad things also your share of bad things.

Speaker B: We know that using workday for finance and HR makes you great at your job.

Speaker C: That don't make You a rock star.

Speaker B: In this case, they're saying it might mean that the company has a narrow minded view on what makes a great candidate. And then I tell them look, look for how they describe the responsibilities if you're going into marketing. If they're talking about SEO goals, remember Rand Fishkin not long ago saying he was frustrated with how many marketers were saying their top goal this year was web traffic, website traffic. That's the kind of stuff they need to look for in job descriptions. If they're talking about SEO and strategies like it's 2012, that's a problem they're being set up to fail. And then of course, missing and vague salary info. I mean, that's no different from what Marcus Sheridan talks about when he implores companies to share pricing information. You know, not hide it. Because the thinking on the consumer side is you're hiding something for a reason. Again, same situation from a humanization standpoint that involves people on both sides, humans on both sides. It's just happening in a job search scenario versus a content marketing scenario. I mean, as you may already know, the first part of the stamp framework for humanizing content is self awareness. And that's really what we're talking about here. We have to be aware of things that might negatively impact the success of our content. Well before we publish it. Some of the mistakes we might be making may not be solely marketing related. We just have to be aware of, of how just some of our integrated human behaviors as human beings might just be playing a role in this work. We get locked into old habits. Sometimes we default to what's quickest or easiest or just the way we've always done it or the way we've seen others do it. We're going to talk a little bit about that today because we see that and go, oh well, they're doing it. That must mean it's a good way to do it. We don't have any proof of that, but we just assume they're doing it because it works. I mean, this stuff can be so ingrained and so automatic that we just don't notice it with everything else we have going on. But if we're serious about our content standing out and making a connection with the humans on the other side, we have to stop and think about what's driving us to do things in a certain way and just ask ourselves some questions about what we're doing. And then we have to think about similar things regarding the humans on the other side. These are all important considerations. We should be making and really many facets of our lives when it comes to how we communicate, build trust and develop relationships with other human beings. And there's a lot of situations where it's important, including content marketing. Next page. So something happened on TV a few days ago that reminded me about another content related challenge that stems from really just typical human behaviors and how we can get trapped in some things that impact the quality and value of that content. I think that's important to point out because sometimes when we talk about these things, and this is why there's such a strong emphasis on humanized content, humanized strategy, because if we leave it to just be marketing strategy, it's almost like this is a marketing problem. And sometimes it is, but sometimes that marketing problem stems from just typical human behavior. And we see these behaviors and these things that we get ourselves instinctively doing or trapped in doing things the same way, uh, impacting a lot of different areas of our lives. And then we'll also see this when it comes to other forms of content. And this is one of those times. The example I'm talking about actually took place during an NFL football game. It involved a sideline reporter and the head coach of the Chicago Bears, Ben Johnson. So this wasn't this past week's game. I think it was the week before. The Bears had had a terrible half. I mean, did not play well at all against the Las Vegas Raiders, I believe. And there is a lot of emotion in this game. You know, especially as a coach, there's a lot of pressure on you to, uh, obviously have your team prepared, play well. You're on tv, everybody's watching, all your fans are watching. And it's just a horrible half and there's emotions running high and you're walking out on the field hoping that you can turn it around. You're stressed out about it. And here comes a sideline reporter. And remember, this isn't a sideline reporter running up to the team that's ahead to talk about, you know, what's going great and all that stuff. This is a sideline reporter heading to the guy who's stressed out about the first half and the second half. And in this particular case, as Bears coach Ben Johnson was walking out on the field, here's how the exchange went. Your offense has struggled to take advantage of those takeaways.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, so what did you tell them to get things going?

Speaker E: That, that it wasn't our brand of football. We're capable of a lot more. And so we're, uh, here the reset button here at halftime and we're going to come back and establish our identity

Speaker B: here in the second half. So you need to change what you're doing.

Speaker E: I don't know.

Speaker C: You think so?

Speaker E: We're going to do just fine.

Speaker C: Thanks.

Speaker B: Now, he later apologized for this, but it still created a lot of conversation. In fact, that might have been one of the reasons why he had to come out and apologize for it, because it did generate a lot of attention. But here's Jon Gruden, former NFL coach, talking about why this is kind of an issue and why he kind of defends what happened there.

Speaker E: Uh, I hate those sideline interviews. Now they're doing live interviews with coaches during the game. Can you imagine that? Hey, hey. Coach Gruden is third and six. You've punted three straight series. How are you feeling? You know, for Ben Johnson not to take that microphone and slam it on the ground, it's a real credit to him. You know, some of these broadcast teams should think clearer. What do we want to ask the coach, and what do we really think the coach is going to say? You think we're going to go, hey, we're, uh, we're going to run an onside kick to start the third quarter, and we're going to run flip right, double X jet 36, counter naked, waggle at 7 on the first play. You're never going to get a technical answer. So why do the interview? Sometimes more access is bad access. Uh, and what access you do get to people, I think you got to do a lot better job than that. Asking questions.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that was Jon Gruden on Wake Up Barstool. I mean, this was a classic situation where everybody was taking sides, right? People defending the coach, Ben Johnson and the sideline reporter, who in this case was Atiti Kinkabwalla. Now, could the coach have handled it better? You could make that argument. But if we're going to look at the sideline reporter, is it all on her? What if it's a situation where she may know this is going to be awkward and this is going to suck, but I have to do it for my job? And why does she have to do it for her job if that's the case? But you have to think that's part of her responsibilities? Could she ever be in a position where she's able to tell the producers or whoever's directing her to go talk to this guy to say, you know, I don't know if this is the best time for me to talk to this coach? It's almost like when the media has to go and talk to people after a disaster and ask them how they feel. For all we know, she may not like doing this part, but she has to. But my question is, from an audience standpoint, who wants to see this? I mean, if you're a football fan, do you want to see? Do you care? I mean, isn't it awkward just the scenario? Maybe it's not the questions that make it awkward, it's the situation. So then we have to ask, why do we have to make this part of our content? Maybe it's just how the producers, the people behind the scenes, the people calling the shots, say, well, this is an NFL broadcast, and this is the way that's done. You go and you stick a microphone in a coach's face, and it makes good TV to watch him explain what happened to his team in the first half. But my question is, does it make it less of a broadcast if she doesn't have to do that? Is the reason why she's having to do this in the first place, because that's the way a broadcast is done, is you have to go do this at halftime, because at that point in time, we're really not even thinking about audience, are we? We're just thinking, that's part of a broadcast. That's what everybody else does. So that's what we're going to do. And think about how much trouble that can get us into when it comes to content. When we're doing things because we've seen other people do them, and we're not even thinking about whether it works, whether the audience even likes it. We're just like, oh, well, that's the way it's done, because I've seen it done that way. So we're going to shove that into our content. So that could be a problem. Then there becomes the situation of, well, could she have asked better questions? Her questions are the same questions we all hear from sideline reporters all the time. You heard Jon Gruden allude to that just a moment ago. It's always the same thing. You know, what do you need to do to make things better? Score, uh, more points than they do? I mean, what do you want to hear? That's one of the reasons why the coach was so frustrated, was not only because he was being ambushed, but it was because I'm going to be asked the same crap that's always asked. I mean, I think if she would have thought of a question that might have at least taken his situation into consideration. Now, he didn't make it easy because he was agitated right out of the gate, so it probably shook her a bit. But I mean, I just think a little more time to prepare. And I'm not going to say her job is easy. It's not. And I'm not going to say it's easy to come up with, you know, good questions or different questions, but that's what makes them good. I mean, she might have surprised him and the audience saying, uh, man, those were actually pretty good questions. It wasn't the usual, what do you need to do to turn the second half around? I'm sure Ben Johnson's not the first person to have this feeling. And I know I'm not the only person watching TV going, oh, she's really going to ask this guy that question again. And sometimes it's phrased differently, but at the end of the day, it's still, what do you have to do? Turn things around. Thinking of a way something could be phrased might help a situation where you think they're already going to be kind of agitated because of how the first half went. Especially if you got to talk to the guy who's losing. It's just a matter of stopping and thinking, okay, I got to talk to this guy. He's not going to probably be happy about it, and he's probably really ticked off, and I'm about to stick microphone in his face. What can I do to better the situation as best as I can on my end? And again, think about the audience because it made it awkward to watch. But the truth is, listening to the same questions all the time also makes it awkward, because then you can tell whether it's a player or coach, they're coming up with a way to try to give you an answer, but it sounds just so canned or so generic, or they're just trying to answer it and call it good. And I don't understand what the entertainment is in that at all. So there's a couple of areas in content we can take from this. When we're about to put content out there that involves an interview and involves an audience, we have to think more about why we're going to ask the question. In this case, I feel like these questions are always the same because they just decide. These are the type of questions sideline reporters ask instead of trying to do something better or more or different. And then some of these reporters are put in these situations that aren't good, no matter what questions you ask. Because there are people running the show that say, nope, we got a habit, because that's what NFL broadcasts have. But I would love to see the research that says I am going to be ticked off as a viewer if I don't get that sideline interview in the middle of the game. And so this way we can look at this and maybe make sure that we don't fall into similar traps when we're creating content for our business. So let's talk about podcasts, for example. I've been podcasting since 2011, and my first two and a half years I was mainly doing shows focused on pop culture. And I did a lot of celebrity interviews. And sometimes I would have to go to conventions where people were signing and, uh, walk up and ask them if they would do an interview with me for the podcast, which was not easy to do. You felt like you were ambushing them in a way. And then other times I would be able to, uh, set something up ahead of time through a representative or something like that. And I can give you a couple of scenarios that kind of fit this. I had a chance, and I actually had something like this happen more than once. But this is the one that stands out to me. I went to a convention where Anthony Michael hall was signing. I did ask him to do an interview. For those of you who may not know Anthony Michael hall, he, uh, he's done some movies here recently, but he's really known for the movies he did in the 80s, especially in the John Hughes films, which I grew up with. So when I went up to ask him do an interview, he said, yeah, that he'd be willing to do it, you know, when he had a break. So I went back to him when he had a break and I said, well, you know, I was going to just focus this for about 15 minutes. And he was like, yeah, how about we, we shoot for more like 10 minutes? And I honestly think the reason why he felt that way, because it wasn't the first time I'd heard this, was because he had already pegged me as a typical podcast interviewer. Meaning generic questions probably like, what was it like to be in this movie? What was it like to be in this movie? What was it like to work with John Hughes? Very one dimensional questions that anybody could ask and he's probably heard 930,000 times. And he's figuring, gosh, if I got to do this, I'm going to be nice to this guy and give him a little interview. But I already know what's coming because that's, you know, podcasts, that's what podcasters ask, which aligns with some of the frustration Ben Johnson had because he knew what kind of questions were coming. So I actually had prepared questions that went deeper than those. And once he realized that, he probably talked to me for about 15, 20 minutes because he became comfortable with the conversation. That happened a lot when I interviewed celebrities. And imagine what it is now, because that was before podcasts were mainstream. I mean, podcasts have a bad rap when it comes to generic questions, including business podcasts. I mean, one of the other thing that I remember was, I don't know if you ever watched the show Grimm when it was on tv, but I had an opportunity to interview David Gentulli and Bitsy Tullock in person. And when I sat down with David, I actually pulled my questions out, and he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's that? I'm like, uh, these are my questions. He goes, you came prepared. You have prepared questions. He literally held it up and showed it through him. Guys, look. Podcaster prepared questions because podcasts that people have heard and podcast questions that people have heard were so repeated and already had such a negative connotation, it was expected and not in a good way. And I can promise you that is multiplied. Now, I bet right now you could listen to any number of business podcasts and predict what questions are going to be asked based on other business podcasts you've heard. That's why it's so important. If you're going to have an interview podcast, you do more to think of better questions. You do more to prepare. Uh, there was this guy I had on my podcast who had written several books related to pop culture, Very, very popular podcast guests. And I ran into him at a convention one time. He said, I'm actually going to cut back on granting podcast interviews. I said, oh, okay, well, what's making you do that? He said, I'm sick of being asked the same questions. I can't count on anybody to do anything different. And he said, honestly, just once,

Speaker D: it

Speaker B: was like this dramatic moment. He was like, just once, I would just love it if somebody would just start with. Instead of, how did you get started? Just once, I would love somebody to say, why did you get started? Isn't that something? I mean, like, one word would have made him feel better about not getting the same question. Everybody started with, how did you get started? Just like, you'll hear a lot of business podcasts whose first question will be, tell us a little bit about yourself. And I'm not sure how many audiences are interested in hearing that. That's why you hear people say, sometimes it's better just put enough in the introduction to give people a sense as to who it is. And then that way the first question can be something more interesting. But what happens? People have heard other podcasts open up with, how did you get started? Or tell us about yourself? And they have it in their head that's how you start a podcast interview. They're not thinking about how they're copying other shows by almost default, and they're not thinking about how many times the interviewee has heard this and, and how many times the audience has heard this and whether or not they even like it. It's the same situation. You're going to be able to make a very strong impression on your guest and your audience if you can break out of that. I mean, case in point. I saw Anthony Michael Hall, I think about a year or two later, and he remembered my face and remembered everything. And then he told everybody what a great interview it was. And that really felt good. I mean, it was kind of cool that Anthony Michael hall remembered who I was. But I mean, just as a creator, it felt good. I had a similar situation with Fred Tadashore, who was a famous voiceover actor. And I interviewed him because he did the voice of the Hulk for Marvel for this little animated movie with, um, Iron man and the Hulk. It was a thing where Fred went into a room and a bunch of reporters were there and independent content creators, podcasters who were going to interview him, and there were a bunch of tables and everybody got a chance to interview him one on one in order to. Well, I was last, and I was watching this one interview with Fred, um, and it was a lot of generic questions, but I had what I would just call unique, thought provoking questions that were going to make Fred think because it was more methodical about his process and about his approach and other things. And he was so happy with the interview. There were these little mini posters he had, or these little posters he had from the movie. And he said, you know, I love this so much, I want to just autograph a bunch of these for your listeners, because this was so good. And then I saw Fred years later. I mean, I interviewed him, I think, in 2012, maybe 2011, and I saw him at a convention, I think, two or three years ago, and he remembered me. And he said, if you ever want to do an interview again, just call me. I'm there. That's how your guests should feel about you, and that's how your audience should feel about you. And the way you do that is you break out of what everybody else does tends to do. The other situation this is relevant is customer interviews. Because what is something everybody says we need right now? Social proof, video testimonials where people who have been a part of our business and like what we do can say what our product, service, or what have you did for them. And there's a similar process to this, I can tell you from personal experience. I created audio testimonials for a nonprofit that helped set records. Fundraising, uh, records. The reason why I did it was because somebody had told me that one of the barriers to our messaging was the audience going, well, while that sounds good, they're paid to say it because they work at the nonprofit or not for profit, actually. So I was like, okay, well, then I'm going to record people who give, and then it's one of their own. And what was important to me was letting them speak freely. I wasn't going to ask these canned questions that were going to force them to say all the right things. I just let them talk freely and I made them know up front. We're just having a conversation. This is not somebody who works for this organization that wants you to say perfect things. I just want you to talk to me like you would talk to a friend about why you give and why you think other people should be involved and just kind of what it means to you. And there was overlap in why people said they should give or why they give. But they had their own language, they had their own way of explaining it, and that's what made them unique. I mean, everybody knew they were going to talk about why it's important to give and why they think others should. But the way they said it, and it was one of their own, was the game changer. They created stories without me even having to do much other than just empower them to talk freely. Because we've all seen TV commercials and other types of content where it's like, my life was in terrible shape, but thanks to this product, things are way better now. And we're just like, oh, but that's because whoever's asking that question was forcing that out of them. They weren't empowered to speak naturally. It was more about what we need from them versus value to the person on the other side and value to the audience, which is also some of the scenarios we may see in those awkward football interviews. So whether you're interviewing a guest, a customer, or crafting a video or podcast, just stop and think about your approach and your questions and your audience. Just give everything a little more Thought, you know, why am I going to ask this question? What value is that going to bring? Have they heard it before? Has our audience heard this question, you know, asked before? I mean, if you're interviewing somebody on your podcast that has been on other podcasts, it's possible your audience has heard them answer the question you're about to ask on another podcast. So what can you do differently? Can you have your Anthony Michael hall moment and have them go, oh, wait a minute, this is different. I like this. This is getting good. You know, am I doing this because this makes sense from an audience and content perspective, or am I just following a formula that my head just has me working in and I just got to snap out of that because the more you ask those questions of yourself, the less likely you are to sound like everyone else and put yourself in situations that can really do more harm than good from everybody's standpoint. I mean, even with those forced and uncomfortable interviews during a football broadcast, the NFL really doesn't have to worry about it being so off putting that the viewers are going to go, well, forget this, I'm never coming back and games again. But that might happen with your content. I mean, if you take a little more time to frame what you're doing in those situations, your guests, your clients, your audience, they're going to notice and they're going to appreciate your efforts. Trust me, I can tell you this from experience because I also got feedback from the audience that said they appreciated the extra time I was taking to provide them something different and ask really interesting questions that created a much better podcast listening experience than they got from other places. All right, next page. Finally, I wanted to touch base on something else that I think is really important to be aware of as content creators or content marketers, as people who are just trying to create content that stands out, makes a meaningful connection with their audience. This is important to think about. I came across this video on YouTube from Chris do you, who's an Emmy award winning designer director, and he's the founder of the futur, which is an online education platform with the mission of teaching 1 billion people how to make a living doing what they love. And he had this little five minute video that he posted a few months ago where he was talking about trying to copy what we see really successful people doing. And I want to play a small clip from that and then I'll share why I wanted you to hear this today.

Speaker D: Again, this monster rears this ugly head. Should I need, shouldn't I? Aren't there more examples of super hyper successful people who aren't locked into a niche that are doing really well. And why are you, Chris, telling us we need to niche now? Let's take, for example, Post Malone. He's had a really interesting career arc, and who knows where he's going to go next. He first started out with rock, which I didn't even know about, and then he went into hip hop, and now he's doing country, and he's dominating every category. This man, this creative human being, has such versatility and a breadth of work and styles that we kind of admire it and we see it for, like, this ability to blend so many different things. The mistake that you would make is you're not Post Malone, you're not the weeknd, you're not 21 pilots. You can't be jumping genres and mixing things up. And if you are, you won't be watching this channel because you're already rich and famous. You have all the options in the world. That was just a joke, by the way. The mistake that most people make is they copy someone's ending versus their beginning. Just let that sink in. There's a long period of time when Post Malone or the Weeknd are doing their thing before anyone even hears about them. They could be in a basement working on some music, playing or DJing for a, uh, wedding or a birthday party. We don't know. So they put in all this time and they start to refine their craft. We only become aware of them when they become famous. And depending on where you are on the adoption scale, it could be you're a laggard. You only find out after the fact that everybody's on it on your last to do it, like Facebook, oh, my God, Facebook's so hot. You know, 20 years later, that's the person you are. So the mistake would be to copy someone's ending when you're not studying their beginning, because you're at the beginning.

Speaker B: I really wanted to share this because even though Chris is talking about niche, especially there in the beginning, I kind of like what he was saying when it came to where we're catching people in the process of their, uh, career path and success and then what we're taking from that. Because what this made me think of is some of the things I've had to come to the realization about as I've tried to work harder to stand out and do all the things I talk to people about doing here, you know, because I've only been doing this on my own for three years and there's Still a lot I'm trying to figure out. There's some things that have worked well and some things that, you know, I seek out advice or I look at what other people are doing and seeing if I can emulate some of that or take inspiration from that. But in the process of this, I realized there were some areas where I need to be mindful as to what I'm taking from what I see from others, even if that advice is, uh, related to something they're telling me I should be doing. Because on the one hand, Chris is talking here about making sure we don't look at somebody and their success and say, oh, well, that's what I'm going to do. Which is good advice, especially in the context he's talking about. But I also think we need to be careful about this when highly successful people and consultants and advice givers in content marketing are telling those of us who are not where they are how to do something that's going to, in their words, lead to success. Because again, from a self awareness standpoint, going into the content, they may not realize that the advice they're about to give us, the reason why it works at that moment, is because it's in the context of where they are in their business. So they might say, hey, I've done this the last six weeks, or I've been doing this and it's been gangbusters for my content. Then you try it and it doesn't work for you. Now granted, sometimes maybe that's a mistake we made on our end, but I also think sometimes even the best experts get stuck in a pattern where they're just turning out advice content and they're just looking for places to pull ideas from to share. And they may be very well intentioned. I'm not saying that they're recklessly doing this, um, this is why I'm talking about awareness. But they might be sharing advice that doesn't necessarily translate or that we might need more details from. Because I always like it when they say tell stories and you're left thinking, okay, well how do I do that? But outside of that, they may actually say, do this, do this on LinkedIn or do this in your videos and it'll do these things. And sometimes when that doesn't work, I think it's because the advice they're giving isn't being created with people on the other side that may not be reaching their level of success. And the reason why they're having that engagement, they're having that success is because they are in a Different position. They do have a bigger following. I mean, there's people out there that engage with every single post of people who have massive followings. And clearly part of that is because they provide a lot of value. But I also think at times there is content that isn't helpful because they didn't take enough time to say, wait a minute, this, this is working for me today because of, uh, where I am in my business and my success. I need to tweak this and remember kind of where I was two years ago, several months ago, and maybe that might be able to help more people. And like I said, I kind of noticed this on my own. And I think a lot of it came from seeing some of this advice where it was really kind of an A plus B equals C sort of thing. And I just think it is so rare anymore for something to work that easily. You know, it's like do this and you know, I've been doing this for the last three weeks and my engagements gone up 15% or you know, something and it may not translate to somebody that's not getting the visibility that person is. You know, Chris do is telling us to make sure that we have the self awareness to realize we can't just jump from, you know, point A to point B, somebody else's high success point B in one step. But I'm over here saying that sometimes I think experts need to have the self awareness to make sure that. I'm just saying on the other side, maybe some experts should be a little more aware of where they're coming from when they share advice and whether it actually can work with people who aren't as successful as they are right now. What I'm really doing here is I'm kind of taking what Chris said and I'm flipping it on its head. You know, he's telling people, don't look at these successful people and what they're doing and translate that into, well, that's what I'm going to do to get where they are now. And like Chris said, without understanding how much of the journey you may not know about, I'm going the other way here. I'm saying it's possible that some of the advice we seek out and find may be advice that is not rooted in the best place, that their reasoning behind it might be more rooted in what's working for them today instead of what might have been working for them when they weren't at this level. Because I think in a lot of cases, just like what we're talking about, if it's in the content marketing context or content strategy context. And we're seeing someone who's highly successful and they're saying, well, I did this recently and this is the results. Well, of course that's what the results were. I mean you've already got this massive following and people engage with almost everything you do. M that's not where I am. You could be saying, right. So I'm calling on more experts to have some self awareness to help people that are still trying to grow and make sure that the advice they're giving is coming from a place that's going to align with where other people might be. I mean, anytime we reach the next level of success or another level of success or we get to where our goals are, we should always be aware of this because again, even success can put us into patterns that become automatic. And next thing you know, we've been doing the same thing for years. In fact, when my book came out, Undeniably Human Content a few months ago, uh, some of the early feedback I got, uh, one of them, ah, one of the people that talked to me was somebody who is very successful, written a couple of books about very similar topics and has been able to teach other people at his company and others how to take humanized and humanized communication approaches to content in very successful ways that have worked out for him and others. And he said, despite the fact that I love the book and I think it's going to help people for many years and I agree with a lot of it, it did make me stop and realize I could learn some new things and maybe even here recently I've gotten kind of locked into my own patterns and I need to break out of that and be aware of that more. That was good to hear. Well, that is today's human content brief. I will have links to the resources and clips that were shared in this briefing on the website, which is yous. If I can be any assistance to you or your business, whether you're looking to find a way to create humanized content or evolve existing content to be more human, I'm here to help you stand out and make a more meaningful connection with your audience. You can find me on LinkedIn or my website, which is scottmurrayonline.com and there's always that email transmission. I am@scottcottmurrayonline.com thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker A: That concludes today's briefing. Keep your communications clear, your content human and your mission steady.