CANNES DAY 3: The Art of Standing Out: Pablo Rochat, Sir John Hegarty & E.L.F Beauty

Speaker A: The Colin and Samir show is supported by Shopify. The way people shop has changed quite a bit over the past couple years, and there's actually a new huge opportunity for creators and entrepreneurs. So shopping has moved away from search and moved in to conversations. Think about the way you search now. You probably spend most of your time having conversations with LLMs. So I just opened up a chat window and I'm typing. My friend is really into dude, perfect. What should I buy him as a gift? And the response I get is a bulleted breakdown of all the different items I could buy, including their apparel, their board games, and all of the products available on their store. Now, importantly, there's product images, sizes, and ways for me to actually click and buy directly from their Shopify store. Now, this is all because of a feature that Shopify just rolled out called Agentix Storefronts. So if you're like us and you've built your online business in Shopify and you're in the US Then you're already enabled for Agentix Storefronts.

Speaker B: Building.

Speaker A: Building an online business has truly never been easier, especially with Shopify. We've been using the platform ever since we started creating online. So thanks so much to Shopify for supporting the Colin and Samir Show. And if you've ever thought about creating a product, check out a free trial of shopify on shopify.com Colin and Samir. Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Colin and Samir Show. We're Here again, day three of Cannes Lions at the LinkedIn Lounge, hosting our daily show. Today we have an exciting episode. A lot of guests, A lot of guests. Today we're going to be joined by directors. We're going to be joined by Corey, uh, Marchisoto, who's the president of Elf Beauty, and Stacey Martinet from Adobe. We're going to be talking about how to stand out as a brand as

Speaker B: well as a legend of advertising. Sir John Haggerty.

Speaker A: Absolutely. All right, so first, let's talk about what we saw yesterday on Social. I feel like it's interesting being here at Cannes, being hyper aware of advertising

Speaker B: and feels like everything you see has to be intentional. Maybe that's just because we're here.

Speaker A: Just because we're here in the south of France and everyone's talking about it. But, uh, probably the thing that was the loudest that I saw yesterday on Social was Meta launching the new glasses with Kylie Jenner.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that was extremely loud. I think there are few true billboards, uh, left in this world. And Kylie Jenner is One of those

Speaker A: billboards that, that's an interesting take.

Speaker B: That doesn't mean that uh, it is easy. You still need creative. I think, you know, her posting an Instagram carousel, uh, that's pretty low fi is the right creative for the Metaglasses.

Speaker A: So let's explain this. So obviously wearables have been a conversation for a really long time. We've had Bill, uh, Zuckerberg on the show talk about wearables, Evan Spiegel on the show to talk about wearables. And over the past week the conversation around social has been around Snapchat launching their new spectacles which are really big. Right. And like the joke of the Internet was these, these specs are just like very big on Evan Spiegel prioritize clearly

Speaker B: in the design, it seems to prioritize, uh, tech, not necessarily aesthetic. Aesthetic. And granted these are two very different products like specs are. They do not do what the may. The Ray. The metas that Kylie Jenner are wearing, they're very different.

Speaker A: Yes. So, so to give you kind of like the landscape of wearables because a couple of weeks ago we were at Google. I. Okay. Google has a partnership with Warby Parker.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Uh, Ray Ban is partnered with Meta as well as Oakley. So a lot of the tech brands are partnering directly with, you know, historic glasses companies to bring aesthetic to their wearable tech. A lot of people are betting on the concept that glasses will be the, the new technology that we use, maybe complimentary to the iPhone or to the smartphone or eventually replacing the phone. And we just haven't seen glasses that look as good as what I saw Meta launch yesterday.

Speaker B: That's happening is they're, they're, they're getting cooler.

Speaker A: They're getting cooler.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean obviously Google with Warby Parker, they make some great looking frames. They partnered with another company too. Do you remember the name?

Speaker A: I don't remember the name, but also

Speaker B: it's a very uh, cool looking lenses. Like clearly that prioritized fashion. And now with Meta launching these, uh, with Kylie Jenner again, like we've taken a step further into. If she posts that photo and doesn't tag Meta, you may not even know that they're smart glasses. And I think that's where we're getting with these products.

Speaker A: Yeah, but it felt like, um, it felt like a step forward for wearables. And also I just find it so interesting what you said. There's very few billboards left in the world and Kylie Jenner is one of them. That's a really interesting Take, you know,

Speaker B: whatever she does is very loud.

Speaker A: So a lot of what this episode is about that we end up talking about is like the difference between advertising around the product and advertising with creators and giving people a feeling. There's like all these different forms of storytelling around a product. The, the feeling of Kylie Jenner is like cool culture, sex appeal. Like there's something just about Kylie. But the product themselves, I think are the best looking wearables I've seen.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree. I would agree.

Speaker A: So as we step into this episode, we're going to talk about the principles of advertising and we're also going to talk about how brands are stepping into being media companies themselves.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: Let's start with our first guest. First guest of the day is Pablo Rochat. He's an incredibly creative director, a great friend, just funny guy.

Speaker B: Just understands how you can stand out right now amongst, um, all of the noise, amongst everything that's uploaded every single day. Pablo is a guy who understands how you stand out, not just as a creator, but as a brand.

Speaker A: So let's welcome to the show Pablo Rashat.

Speaker C: All right.

Speaker A: Good morning, Pablo.

Speaker D: Good morning, man.

Speaker C: How you doing?

Speaker D: Good morning, Colin. Samir.

Speaker A: Uh, you have your sketchbook in front of you.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: We were taking a look at this yesterday. Um, first of all, how do you describe yourself?

Speaker D: Myself? Yeah, I, I feel like I'm a director and creator.

Speaker A: You make a lot of ads. Like more traditional. You make ads?

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: And I feel like right now I can. There's a lot of creators here in the context of sponsorships. Hey, let me, you know, uh, basically make stuff about your product on my social, which is stuff that you do as well.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: But you also just direct ads. You directed a campaign for Nike, recently directed a campaign, uh, for Gucci, and you have the sketchbook of ideas. Talk to me about just the process of how you approach an ad or any idea what makes an idea good right now?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: Um, well, it depends on the brief. But basically you want to make something that people want to watch a basic level. And in order for them to watch something, they have to spend, like, more than a couple seconds with it. And I mean, you're. People are scrolling through content these days. It's not like they're waiting and standing in front of something and then walking to another thing. And so it's like, what really is going to be worth someone's time? And I've just been, uh, for the past, like, 15 years, just obsessed with what is actually an image someone's going to care about. Especially if it's an image that traditionally they wouldn't care about, like an ad or a video of an. With an ad video. Um, I've just always been interested in, like, how visual language can communicate an idea in, like, the simplest way and also surprise people. Like, basically, I just want to entertain people as much as I can. And I like the challenge of trying to entertain people while also trying to deliver a message. And so, I mean, I'm lucky enough that kind of my career's, uh, grown as, like, social media platforms has grown, like Instagram. It's, like, a perfect place for me to, like, freely test ideas. Um, and so this notebook is a place where I just kind of remind myself of thoughts I have, or I'll just sit down for an hour or two when I'm feeling like I might have an idea or I'm feeling, like, feeling creative and just think about a problem. Like, it could be as simple as, like, what's an interesting thing to do with. Um. Like, I see a bunch of cigarettes on the street. Like, cigarette stubs in. Or cigarette. What do you call them?

Speaker B: Butts.

Speaker D: Butts. In, uh, France. There's one thing I've noticed. I mean, it's a very simple, obvious thing, but, like, everyone's seeing that too. But is anyone doing something fun about that? So. And then also everyone's advertising certain products. Let's, like an AI product or software. How can you stand out and use something that's in front of everybody in a new way? Um, that's basically how I think of ideas. Because it's easier to twist something familiar than create some sort of new thing that no one's seen before in my. In my mind.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Let's pull on that thread of the cigarette butt on the ground here.

Speaker D: I can.

Speaker B: Like, where do you take that? You say, like, no one's doing anything fun with that.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think most people would walk around and think, like, what fun am I supposed to have with that cigarette butt?

Speaker D: Uh, well, actually, I just meant m. I haven't thought about it yet, but I was. That's something that I think could be worth thinking about. Cigarette, um, butts on grounds. Yeah. I don't know. Like, uh, they. Let's say they. If I were to brainstorm about that right now. They're gross. People don't want. They're not supposed to be there. Like, I don't know. First thought, could you arrange them in a way that creates something beautiful? Um, that's kind of the obvious thing. Yeah. Like, what's the opposite of what it is, and would that make someone think about it differently? And, or sometimes I just think about scale. Like, those are tiny things. What happens if you made a big one? What would that look like or feel like? And how would that change someone's mind about seeing a small one? These are kind of abstract, but it's like a very simple approach that I think is what I like to do is like, what's like something familiar in a. Done in a new way. Because I think. I don't know, it's just the way I think. I think it's just funny. I love absurdist comedy and humor. And I grew up, like, reading New Yorker cartoons. Like, the simplest form of a simple line with a simple image that can, like, make you remember an idea or, uh, laugh in a way that you didn't expect.

Speaker A: Um, so let's, let's zoom into your Nike campaign because I'm realizing that that carries a lot of the same, ah, energy because it's a one shot and I remember this stuck out to me so much on Instagram, but it's a shot of someone running. Yeah, right. And shoes running is a very familiar thing. But then as it pulls back, it reveals that he's running on this, like, concrete mixer. Yeah. So is that. That's where that energy comes from of like, what's familiar, but then do it

Speaker B: in a different way.

Speaker D: Literally, like, the idea comes from. Okay, I'm advertising a shoe. Right. I do, like, oddly, a lot of shoe campaigns, like basketball running or like, more like luxury shoes. So I have like, thousands. I've been thinking about shoes for like, past 10 years and have. And it's the same thought process as like, the cigarette. But yeah, there's no idea there yet. But it's like people run all, uh, Right. This is a running shoe. People run. People run on tread. Like, what's another? Like, I just was thinking about treadmills for, like, all day. And like, what's an unexpected treadmill? Originally the idea was, had come from an idea I had previously where I wanted to like, put a rock climbing wall on a cement truck. And so it's like continually rotating with, like, the rock climbing holds so you could climb it. And it's kind of like a rock climbing treadmill. And I just was looking through my notebook and I saw that. And, uh, at that time I had received a brief from Nike and I was like, oh, what if we were running on it, not climbing on it? It was honestly that simple. But it sounds easy, but it takes like hours and hours and days Sometimes to find that right idea. And I pitched. They'll ask for, like. I mean, that was like a big campaign. There was, like, 15 different videos that ended up shooting with them. But I just pitched them, like, hundreds of ideas. And I just. And I literally just share my Google Slide with a client. It's like, hey, does any of this interest? Uh, it's basically like a sketchbook that I'm, like, sharing with the client. It's funny. I think a lot of people work and then in two weeks, they show a very paused presentation. I actually like to show them just, like, I let them, like, join my Google Slide as I'm thinking, and it's like, hey, if you're ever interested to see my progress, both show you that I'm working on it. And maybe you have an idea too.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: So explain to us then. Um, your Gucci campaign.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly the same. I've always wanted to do something funny with mannequins.

Speaker A: So what's the campaign like? What was the brief and what did you deliver to?

Speaker D: Well, okay, the brief was they had just come out with this new collection called La Familia, where they had established certain characters in this, like, kind of Italian family world. Some like this, like, in the. The. The looks and pieces were designed by the certain attitudes of, like, an Italian family. So there's like, a fiery red jacket, and it's kind of like a fierce, strong woman. Um, there's some other, like, more like, I don't know, chill clothes for maybe a more like chill person in the family. That's like a very, like, simple way of talking about their big, uh, strategy. But basically, the brief was like, we have these characters. We want to show these clothes, like, in an interesting way. Uh, we need, like, I don't know how many videos they wanted, you know, three or five. Well, they send me their clothes to their studio, and I just like, well, first I send them ideas and they just send the product. And sometimes I work with models and whatnot. But it's a lot easier to, like, really display the clothes and, like, control it in a way where you don't have to have it on somebody. I sent them, like, 12, 15 ideas, like, lots of Italian food ideas, like family, uh, portrait ideas, using old family portraits on a wall in interesting way. And, um. And I had been thinking about mannequins for a while, and I was like, would be funny for mannequins are still. What if they moved? And what if they did something unexpected? And what if they did one thing that represents that personality of that character. And so me, it was me and my friend, uh, Dalton, who makes all my props. He, we, he went to, we went to the junkyard. We got like a car door. He created these like little uh, mechanical devices and made like one woman just scratching a car door who was like a really angry person in the family. And then we dressed her up in Gucci. She looked fantastic. And it was just her scratching a car door almost like a window display or something. And then the next one was a guy trying to plug a plug in the outlet and it was just like ruining the wall. And so I mean those are my favorite things. Something that's like actually possible to make. Um, and a very, very simple like twist on reality.

Speaker B: Considering that you have such a unique lens on advertising right now, uh, this year, what would you consider to be one of the best ads?

Speaker D: Whoa. Damn. Um, what were they? Uh, there was the uh, the one where they painted the people to look like sim characters as coinbase.

Speaker A: Oh, I didn't see that.

Speaker C: I didn't see that one.

Speaker D: It was trippy because it looks like just an old video game SIM card. But if you zoom in close, they had actually put a makeup on people that look like video game characters. That was cool.

Speaker C: Oh.

Speaker D: One that I liked recently and a lot of brands have been doing cool stuff is like the World cup has been covering over logos of stadiums.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: You see the Gillette stadium.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker D: They cover it up in a shaving frame which is genius. There's like.

Speaker B: Yeah. And Levi's had a similar thing.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: Stadium Heineken. I love it.

Speaker D: It's just simple thing. That's like some humor that I would do like.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: Just to say like a little bit rebellious, just funny, clever. Yeah, yeah. I love that simple stuff.

Speaker A: Can you show us one of the ideas in here and maybe like a visual that you think would stick out. Like a contrasting visual where you're like, oh, I think this is because like you think in images, you think in uh, contrasting images. And I find it so interesting.

Speaker D: What's the poster? Basically if you're making a video, what's like the, I guess you would say thumbnail maybe. What's like the visual and then what's the interesting path to get to that hero moment for the uh, cement truck? I mean it was a simple zoom out. You're not sure what it is, then you realize what it is and you, then you can't believe that it is that um, yeah, very simple things. Sleight of hands. Just like you think it's One thing and then it's not. Um, I mean, that's usually the best type of entertainment.

Speaker A: I'm looking at your notebook here, and I see AirPod dice.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And I can. I can already see it where it's like.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, people playing.

Speaker D: That's my friend Dalton had the ideas. Um, you know when you drop your headphones or. And they. They sp.

Speaker C: The.

Speaker D: They just like splatter on the ground. They, like, run around.

Speaker A: It's actually one of the worst experiences ever.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: And I've actually done like, probably 10 videos just about that experience because I think it's hilarious. But he had the good idea to. What if you designed the AirPods to be like, kind of like dice, so every time they drop and fall on the ground, they would land on a number and you could actually use it as a game rather than like, uh, thing bad that happened.

Speaker A: What's this one? Leaf blowers. Concert T shirts.

Speaker D: Okay, that one is an idea for. There's a lot of leaf blowers in my neighborhood. Like, there's a lot of trees and, uh, it's annoying, right? You wake up and it's like leaf blowers super loud. What if they act. What if leaf blower companies pretended like it was actually, like, really cool? And it sounds basically announcing yourself as a touring band, but you're just a leaf blower company. And so like, introducing. Just imagine the guys with leaf blowers and it's just like coming to your neighborhood or basically treating it like music when it's actually just the most annoying sound.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And then treating them like musicians rather than just yard workers.

Speaker B: So that's an idea that's funny and interesting and you're sitting on it. In the event that a, ah, brand comes to you, there's an opportunity.

Speaker D: No, no, no, no, no. This is just personal. But yeah, maybe a leaf. I don't know where that would fit into the brand. But, um, maybe noise canceling headphones or something.

Speaker A: So if you were to synthesize this all into like, three rules of good advertising, what do you think they would be?

Speaker D: Um, three rules. I mean, um, you have to entertain people. And I can talk loud, I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think right now, in this moment, like, obviously we're at Cannes Lions. This is like the moment where advertising is awarded. You've made a lot of interesting stuff. Like, what do you think the rules of advertising right now are?

Speaker D: Well, for me is like, you have to ask yourself, seriously, do you advertise actually, like, what you're making? Uh, like, it's easy to like be caught up in like big productions, fancy beach, like, you know, the client's happy and it's like really cool to make an ad. You're like madman. It's. And that, uh, you could easily become happy and content just because of. You're in a privileged position to make an ad and you're on set or whatever. But. And a lot of people aren't honest about this. Like, do you genuinely like what you're making and do you genuinely think people will like it? It's very simple. But I think sometimes you think you can get a celebrity or you get like amazing lighting, a cinematographer, and it looks really cool. It looks like you're making a fucking ad, which is super exciting. But that can't distract you from actually asking yourself, do you. And sometimes we lie to ourselves. Yeah, this is cool. We did it. We did it. It's like a script we really like and we're like, yeah, like made it. But then maybe a couple days after you look at it or even during and you have to be super honest with yourselves. Like, do you actually think this is good?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And it's like kind of. And it's obviously like you have to subjective in a way, but I, um, if I think people would actually not like, like would be more honest with themselves and maybe actually like catch. Catch themselves before they go into production with something that they're excited about. Say, is this actually going to work? And I don't know, just. I mean, in that case you kind of just have to prove a concept it fast. Um, and people are not gonna, uh. I feel like. Yeah, I think that's hard. It's hard.

Speaker A: I think that's a great answer. Um, well, Pablo, thank you so much for coming on, dude.

Speaker B: Thanks for being. Appreciate it.

Speaker A: And we will see you on the crusade.

Speaker D: I'll see you in the water.

Speaker B: All right. We'll see in the ocean, guys.

Speaker D: Bye. Well,

Speaker A: all right. Our next guest is Sir John Haggerty. He's an absolute advertising legend who's created campaigns for Levi's, Audi, Johnnie Walker, I mean countless campaigns. Founded a company called BBH in 1982 and was knighted in 2007 for his work in advertising. Let's welcome Sir John Haggerty.

Speaker C: John.

Speaker A: John. Okay, Jay, Jay, Jay.

Speaker C: You better quicker.

Speaker A: I've wanted to have this conversation on microphones for some time. We had such a wonderful dinner with you where we learned about advertising. Um, I wanted to start here because the story you told us that, that night when we were having dinner was that you Made a Levi's ad that was so effective that it had to be taken off the air.

Speaker C: We did, and it was called, um, Launderette. And, uh, it was 1985, it went on air and it was Levi's really trying to re. Establish themselves. They were in serious trouble. And, uh, we'd made this commercial for them called launderette 60 seconds. It didn't research very well, believe it or not. Funny thing, but they had to run it. They'd made it. Didn't research well, meaning they showed it to people and they kind of went, well, I'm not, uh, sure, sure. And this is an interesting point, and I'll come back to that. And anyway, went on air and within five days they had to take it off air because they couldn't keep up with demand. And it's a very interesting thing about when you say something privately as opposed to when you say something publicly. There's a big difference in how people take it in. If I say something too private, you go, yeah, well, John, you would say that if I say it publicly in front of all of these people, it changes what you say and, uh, what you mean. And it's one of the great lessons. And it's why when you try and research creative work, it rarely, rarely works because you're trying to one, you're trying to break new ground, but you haven't got that relationship between kind of a private statement and a public statement. And that's what it did. And it was taken off here. You can go online and have a look at it. And, uh, the other thing about it was that it kind of reintroduced me into boxer shorts and it remade the careers of people like Marvin Kay and Benny King and people like that. So it had a. It really did have a profound effect on storytelling and how you tell a story. I mean, I've.

Speaker B: I've watched it multiple times. Uh, but why do you think it was so effective so quickly? What about, you know, that guy in the laundromat taking off all of his clothes?

Speaker C: Uh, well, it was kind of, um, again, a public. You know, you take your clothes off every day, don't you? Or I do. I don't know anybody else, but, you know. But he was doing it in a launderette and he was doing it in a launderette because he wanted the jeans the way he wanted. He wanted his 501s the way he wanted them. He only had one pair, so he wasn't rich. So he's telling. You're telling stories all the time. So he's obviously not rich, hasn't got five pairs at home because otherwise he'd do it at home. He goes in, he doesn't really care what people are thinking around him. He's not arrogant. And he puts them into machine to get them the way he wants them. And then he sits down next to this great big guy who hasn't noticed the thing and just doesn't give a shit about what's going on. So it's got a bit of sense of humor in it. But the thing, and this is a fair thing to say, we didn't quite realize it, but essentially we, we remade a catwalk because m. That's what he's doing. He's walking to a laundry, he walks down. All these people are looking at him just like a catwalk. It's not like Paris fashion show, except it's a launderette Saturday afternoon in some New York suburb. And uh, it had that and it had a connection. But the star of it, guy called Nick Kamen, had wonderful presence and he had a brilliant arrogance without it being offensive. And if you see him, he confidence and people bought that. I want that. And what they really wanted to be was like Nick Kamen. And if I put those jeans on, I'm going to be like Nick Kamen. And it's the old story you're telling, you know, so it was effective in lots of different ways.

Speaker B: I like that example so much because from my understanding the character, the actor Nick Kamen, he's not a known celebrity.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: Right. So you. I think that's a lot of the talk here at ah, Cannes with creators is we are trusted faces, we have built in audiences. If you integrate a product with us, you are a step ahead because people already know who we are. But I think uh, what you do and what Pablo does, uh, is having to break through without that advantage.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Of like. Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think, you know, we've always believed when we were, you know, when I was working in advertising, the star of the show was the product. It wasn't something that you added on. Uh, and I think one of the great mistakes today, you know, I look at a lot of advertising and I kind of go, it hasn't elevated the actual product. The story should be around the product. It's driving the story. That launderette, it was the jeans that was driving the story. He wanted the jeans the way he needed them, stonewashed, you know, and that was the only way you could get them back then. I think today when you look at work, uh, you kind of think they adopt somebody Else and try and go, I'm going to be great because I've adopted this rather than creator now. I think, you know, it's interesting with creators because I think I've always likened them to, like, magazine editors. So, you know, if you go to. If you buy a magazine, if you buy Vogue, you buy Vogue because you're into fashion and you're buying Anna Wintour. She is a creator. She's the same thing. So it's a different sort of. I think creators operate in a different place than sort of a brand coming on and advertising. That's why I think creators are so interesting because they have developed an audience, and if the brand, the product, whatever is right for them, then I think you can really create something very powerful and effective. And so it's a different way.

Speaker B: Uh, I think that's right. I like to think of them like, we are not a billboard. We are more a convention hall.

Speaker C: Absolutely. You're trusted in the way. You know, I remember we used to. Occasionally, we didn't do it very often. We go to magazines and. And do, um, uh, sort of advertorial, as they were called, where the magazine would go, well, we'll write up the story for you. And it would be. You'd have to put advertorial, you know, but it was the. It was the magazine writing up about this brand. And it was trusted because the editor of that magazine said, what we've said is true. We, uh, believe in this. So you can trust it. And it's the same for a creator. So it's a different. That's what I think makes it interesting. It's a different way of approaching something.

Speaker A: When was the first time you came to Cannes Lions?

Speaker C: I've got. Funny. I was thinking about this, you know, the first time I came to Cannes. Lines one, you could see the beach, and two, you could walk on it. How about that? Oh, it was a long time ago. No, I. I came in. I, uh, was on a jury. 1988 was the first time I came. And of course, back then it was film, which is why the line has a film reel. You don't have those anymore. Um, and it was one Grand Prix and it was all film. And then in about the early 90s, they expanded it into billboards, print and that, and they started expanding it out. So, yeah, 1980, but I didn't come. I sort of used to come irregularly. Uh, uh. And it's interesting, Ken. I have a love, hate relationship with it. Um, I do. I. I kind of hate. I cannot bear Drinking any more Rose. You know, I mean, although, I have to say, which is very funny, this is why you've got to love the advertising industry. You've got to love them. They drank the Carlton out of. And they had to go to the Martinez, which is the hotel just further to supply them with, with kind of more Rose. And I. I just. I love the advertising industry for that. I mean, completely irresponsible.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker C: But then the thing I love about it is you get to do this. You. You know, I always say to people, you don't bump into people on Zoom. And. And this is what's so great about it. You know, I met. You know, just this morning, I met about three people I haven't seen for a very, very long time that was just sitting out there.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And that I. I think in a world where technology is trying to draw us apart, I think connections like this are, um, incredibly valuable. We must cherish them. Cherish them.

Speaker A: So I want to talk about another concept that you've talked about, because you know this. There used to be a level of scarcity in advertising, right. Where there was only a finite amount of ad space, whether it was magazines, billboards, television. Um, today with the Internet, there's what. What feels like infinite ad space.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And there's a premise that you talk about of stalking versus seducing. And the Internet stalks you. Right. If I search something, yeah. All of a sudden I am being attacked by that type of advertising. And so how do you recommend, with us being in the ad business and everyone here thinking about advertising, with the rise of algorithmic feeds being able to reach you, um, how do you seduce someone and just talk about the difference between stocking and seducing?

Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I've kind of realized that the digital media strategy is stalking. And I do point out to people in lots of countries that's illegal. So I'm thinking of, you know, if I'm stalked, maybe I should call the metropolitan police up and say, look, I'm being stalked by this brand or whatever. Would you go and arrest the CEO, please? And I'm feeling threatened. Um, but, you know, I kind of go, principles remain, but practices change. You know, fundamental principles of life do not change, but practices change. And I think today the requirement of anybody in advertising is to elevate what they're doing is to make it even better, more profound, more interesting, more consistent, and to understand the relationship between the brand and the audience. And. And it's very funny. We were talking about, this is my partners. Just earlier on, a student Came into me and, uh, he was studying to get into Abid, a wonderful college in London, uh, London College of Communication. He'd done a brilliant postcard. He just gave me his post and it had a big circle and it said, you, family. And then another circle which overlapped that circle slightly and it said your friends, another big circle. Your passions, like that, like three big circles. And, um, right down in the corner, like a pin dot, your brand. And, and I thought this was such a perceptive observation that everybody working in advertising and everybody in brand marketing should have on their wall. Your brand is not that important. It, you know, if your brand disappeared tomorrow, what would happen to the world? Uh, it'd be a bit, you know, awkward. It might be a bit, oh, dear me, they're not around anymore. Never mind, I'll go to someone else. You know, I was talking to a network provider recently and made that point to them that, you know, if you disappear tomorrow, be inconvenient. I'd have to switch to another network provider. But, you know, you know, who'd care? But if Taylor Swift dropped down dead tomorrow, you'd have, you know, people tearful in the street. And the answer is, once you accept that, then you can begin to develop a communication program that begins to address that and make people go, well, how do I make myself more important? I do so by being funny, by being relevant, by being consistent, by engaging with you, not behaving like a twat, you know, all those things, or stalking you. But brands don't do it. And I just kind of think, I just don't get it. I just.

Speaker B: What do you think gets in the way? Is it too many people? Is it measurement?

Speaker C: I think, you know, the great thing in life, uh, whatever you do is to, is to try and remain outside and look in. And I think that I, I think it's quite why. I think outsiders make very interesting people because they're brought up with that. I'm, um, outside, I'm looking in and I think if you look at so many of the great artists, the great thinkers, they were outsiders. You know, Leonardo da Vinci all the way through, you know, he was illegitimate, he was gay, he was vegetarian. Left handed, not, I don't know why they should be there, but you look at them. Picasso, outsider in France, he was an outsider. And I think that fact of being an outsider helps enormously. So therefore, when you come to being a brand manager, director, whatever it is you are, remain that ability to step outside and look in instead of going into the organization, then the organization is all important or powerful. And you think the world revolves around you. No, it doesn't. And, um, I think that's what great creative people have. I think that's the ability they have. They have that sense to look in. I was just. It was interesting, actually. You know, I have to say, for me, anyway, one of the greatest artists, David Hockney, died two weeks ago. And I, I, I kind of. He was, he's older than me, obviously. Well, not obviously, but he's older than me. But he was kind of like part of my life. I loved his work, followed it. And I went to see an exhibition of his. They had it in, uh, London, uh, uh, a place called the Light Room, where they project his work. And he talked about it. It's fantastic. If you ever go to one of those, do go to them. And he was talking about when he went to California and you suddenly. And he talked about swimming pools. And he said, I've never seen swimming pools like it. And you know. And he came from Bradford. Now, you probably don't know Bradford, but it's in the north of England. The only swimming pool you ever saw was municipal, and it stunk of chlorine and it was enclosed. So he goes to California and he looks at these pools and they're rippling in the sun. And he's kind of. And he paints them where Californians are going, uh, everybody's got a swimming pool. Why is that? But it was that outsider's view of it. And he talked about it. And of course he then paints a bigger splash, one of the greatest paintings ever. And he does a thousand pictures on swimming pool. That being an outsider. And I think brands forget that. I think they, they don't understand how to step outside.

Speaker A: Uh, like, they don't understand what matters actually about the thing, because they're too inside the thing. So I want to ask you then, because probably one of the primary differences with can and advertising in the world right now is the rise of AI and most creators, including ourselves, are being asked to advertise AI products. If we were sitting in a room brainstorming around how to position AI to the world, how would you approach that with the timeless principles of advertising?

Speaker C: Well, I mean, it's like anything, I think in life, there's good and bad about AI. I mean, we've debated the bad. And you know, what it's doing, the energy it's consuming, um, the fact that it's using other people's copyrighted material. And you have to resolve those things. You have to do it. You can't just go, tough shit, you know. Um, but I view the thing I've said about the two things I've said about AI is one, I think it democratizes opportunity, so therefore it's evened out the playing field. Um, and the other thing I think is, uh, it's not a tool. You collaborate with it. And I think this is the first time in life that we've had something like that. You collaborate with it. You know, up until this moment, you know, a computer is a tool. You know, my mobile phone is a tool. You know, it's a little tool. Pencil is a tool. You know, a paintbrush is a tool. They're tools. Suddenly you have something that you collaborate with, but you're the one that's driving the conversation. And if you let it drive you, then you're in serious trouble. Uh, well, you'll, you know, somebody made a lovely observation about AI. I wish it was mine, but it wasn't. And it said, um. And he said, uh, uh, uh, humanity is AI's greatest asset. And if you think about it, that gives it its opportunity to show what it can do, but it needs you to really do it. So I'm, I'm, I'm, um, cursed as an optimist, I think I probably said that to you. Uh, I think it's going to be amazing. I really do. Ah. And I think we should embrace it. We should be, um, looking to see how we can really elevate what we do. I mean, one of the problems, I think, is a lot of people have looked at it, and you get the left brain people in the world all look at it, go, oh, look at the money. We can save. The right hand brain people, the creative people all look at it and go, wow, what else could we do with this? And, um, that's where we want to be. And I think the problem is, you know, you look at, you know, lots of these companies down here and they'll go, or, you know, as I say, left brain people will be all going, oh, we could save that. We don't have all that need all those people. We can get rid of them. But they don't see opportunity. They're process people rather than creative people. I don't want to say, I don't mean that in a kind of, you know, oh, we are creative. Everybody's creative. But we see opportunity. Creative people see opportunity. Process people see saving. You know, I can do this for less, quicker, uh, faster, cheaper, uh, that's fine, that's good. You know, it works. But in the End. There's only so far you can go. How are you creating value? And I think. I really do think AI and listen, I promise you, I have been around a long time and I've heard lots of predictions about lots of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah, genuinely, I think AI is going to be amazing. I really do. I think it's, uh. I mean, I'm working on a project with the UN alongside the UN on World Environment Day. We launch it on 7th of, uh, uh, June, uh, which is World Environment Day, by the way. Why is it a day, the biggest crisis facing the world. Well, we'll do that on that day, and then we'll move on to something else. I mean, it should be permanent, but anyway, I couldn't have done this, really. I could have done it, but the cost would be astronomical, uh, without A.I. i couldn't have done it without A.I. so I'm presenting it tomorrow at, uh, uh, uh, uh, the Palais. So you've got to see opportunity. And I think opportunity is there, and I think it's. I do think it's going to be incredible. Although I have said, and I've said lots of time, one of the great problems we have today, isn't it, is that I say we're all artists, but some of us shouldn't exhibit. Uh, and that's the biggest problem.

Speaker A: I like that. Yeah. Um, thank you. I was going to ask you one last question, which is just if you have one principle or rule of storytelling that you can share with us, um, as we step in to continuing to tell stories that are trying to reach a lot of people, we're doing at a very fast pace and it feels like, um, it's always good for us to hear from someone who's done it for a long time. A timeless principle of storytelling.

Speaker C: Tell the truth, the most powerful tool you can ever employ. And it's simple. Tell the truth and, um, create a story around all and it wins every single time. Don't fabricate. Tell the truth. Make it interesting, make it funny, make it whatever it is. All the great stories come from a truth, a fundamental truth. I love that. That's the brilliance of it.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for joining us. It's always great.

Speaker C: Really good with Cam behind and the branding today. You've got the branding? Yeah, I've done that. Thanks, John. Thanks, John. Hey, great stuff. Really lovely. Really, really good. Great to see what you're doing, too.

Speaker A: I appreciate that.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker C: Now, do they have to.

Speaker A: I like that. I will take a quick photo. Our Next guest is Corey Marchisotto. She's the president of Elf Beauty, one of the most innovative brands in the beauty category. And on Social Today, let's welcome Corey.

Speaker E: Thank you for having me. Didn't you mean bienvenue?

Speaker A: Uh, I, uh, cannot say that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I did mean to say that.

Speaker A: You said you wanted to start with hair. I'm happy to start with that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: I think this is a very important way to start the conversation because your hair says a lot to the world.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker E: You're talking to the world with your voice, but your hair is really what's speaking the loudest. So I'd like to understand your journey this morning. What kind of products are we using? What's going on in the mirror? Are you using your fingers? Is it, uh, a brush?

Speaker A: Like, tell us. There is no product. It is all, I just put water in my hair and then get out of the shower, and that's the end product.

Speaker E: You have no styling cream, though?

Speaker A: I have no styling cream. I have nothing. Not a single product.

Speaker E: Okay.

Speaker A: So what I actually do is yesterday I jumped in the ocean. I always like what my hair looks like after I'm out of the ocean. So that was it.

Speaker E: You get a little salt water. So you're. Maybe I should think about that. For product development. Yes. We need a sea salt spray.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker E: You just created Elf's next product.

Speaker A: I'll only take 10% of the company.

Speaker B: And then

Speaker E: notice how he said company, not product sales.

Speaker B: Is that a deal we're ready to make or.

Speaker E: I think so.

Speaker B: Great.

Speaker E: Let's shake.

Speaker A: If we talk about percentages, something that I find really interesting about Elf and this. This, uh, episode and why we wanted to have you on is because we were talking about brands as studios.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, brands stepping into being creators themselves. Right. And you guys have gone from spending 6% of your net revenue on marketing to 25%.

Speaker E: You did your homework.

Speaker C: You.

Speaker A: Somebody did the homework. And you've done everything from original music, reality show. You've had a lot of different campaigns. We were walking up and down the, uh, crisette yesterday. Some people were walking up to us, chatting with us, and I said, hey, we're talking to Corey from Elf tomorrow. What should we ask her about? Everyone had a different campaign or a different wow. Some of it was ask her about Hailey Bieber and road.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker A: Some of it was ask about the Matt Rife campaign. Some of it was just ask about what they're creating.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you clearly have done. You've invested in a way where people talk about you. Yeah, that's hard to do as a brand. So just talk about your investment into content and how you guys think about that going from 6% spend to 25%.

Speaker E: Sure. Uh, the way we framed it from the beginning and framing is really important, is we're an entertainment company that also sells beauty products and makes your hair fabulous and your face fabulous and will hold your makeup on all day long, even. Even through the tough, uh, climate conditions we have to face here in Cannes. And that's really important because if you go out every day and you say, I'm just here to sell you product, then you're not going to be memorable. But if you go out every day and you say, I'm going to create a place of belonging that people are going to return to over and over again because it respects their most important resource, which is their time. A place that brings sparks of joy. A place that is Elfing, entertaining. And that was always the catalyst for our content creation. So as we're going through the motions, we are very in tune with our community. What do you want to see from us? What do you want to hear from us? And we actually take the synapses from them. What is happening in this moment that is important to you, and then we translate that into entertaining content that they find themselves in because they contributed to it. So if you think, for example, about our last Big game ad with Melissa McCarthy, none of that was an accident. The conversation was very clear. There was this entire thing about, should the Big game in America halftime show be done in Spanish and what does that mean for the American Super Bowl? Yes, you can say that. I can't.

Speaker A: I can say it. You can't say it.

Speaker E: Yeah. So it was a conversation that was happening active in real time, and this was a place that we had already played with our community. We had already done an original music track with Manuel Torizo called Ojos labios Cara, which is eyes, lip space in Spanish. So we already knew how to speak Elf Spaniel. We created telenovelas for our Mexican community when we launched in Mexico. So we said, you know, this is a moment that Elf can step in. We've been working really closely with this community to ensure that we can reach out to them in deeply meaningful ways. So our Big Game ad was about learning how to speak espanol for the Big Game. So everybody found themselves in it because they said, you know, I uniquely contributed to that. I had that conversation with Elf. I talked to Elf about that. I'm part of Elf's community. They're speaking directly to me. So I think your walk on the quas and the way you saw people reacting to different things is because it touched them in some unique way. And very oftentimes brands will focus on one or two campaigns a year, so your opportunity to actually deeply reach different subcultures is very limited. But our engine is turning out a high volume of content on purpose because we're speaking to lots of different audiences and touching them meaningfully and deeply in a lot of different ways.

Speaker A: So how are you listening to the audience? Like, when you say they're contributing, like, uh, in what ways are they contributing? And how do you. How do you pull that?

Speaker E: Sure. So we have what we call zero distance philosophy. And it's. It's more than a philosophy. It's a mindset that, um, that's ingrained in our organization. And zero distance is two pathways. The first pathway is zero distance between insight and action. What we learn and what we do has to have zero distance between it. So if we hear about something last night, it's going to be in our social feeds tomorrow morning, and then it's zero distance between us and our community. But when I say us, I don't mean just the social media manager or the community manager. I mean the C suite. I'm on TikTok lives. My CFO is on Twitch. Uh, my CEO, I take him on TikTok lives all the time so the community can speak directly to him about what they want to see about the brand. And they have a personally vested interest in one another. So if I run that water through the pipes for you to make it real for a second. We've been on twitch for over five years. We're among the top 1% of brands on the platform. It's like us and Red Bull. And we constantly talk to them about, what do you want to hear from us? What do you want to learn? What do you want to know? The two things that pop to the top are going to surprise you. Number one, career advice. Number two, financial advice. So this tells you about a reshaping of the relationship between them and the brand. This is not just product level. You guys have given me that. You've given me the makeup tutorials, you've shown me how to do it. You give me amazing product. This transcends that into ELF as my bestie, who's going to help me through my life. So I went on with my boss, we gave career advice and, um, talked about our journeys and imparted the wisdom that we had from our ladder of experiences. And then I brought on our CFO. 111,000 people showed up to hear her give financial advice. 111,000. That is a massive signal. So when you ask, how are we engaging directly with our community? That's exactly how we're engaging directly with our community. We're finding out what are their unique needs, wants and desires and then we're meeting them where they are.

Speaker B: Uh, just from hearing you speak, it seems like ELF at so many levels is continually relevant because you are present in the conversation that's happening in the world. And even just present, you know, to be on Twitch is the most present form of media to be live. But I would imagine that also for a lot of companies, uh, listening, it feels risky even for creators. A lot of creators are like, I'm not going live, I'm not doing that. What rules do you have in place to make sure that across the entire organization, everything you communicate and put out, whether it's Twitch or you know, on Instagram, that it's okay to be, uh, timely. Mhm. To be relevant. How do you make sure that it's not so risky?

Speaker E: Yeah, we have a very well codified ethos and it is literally your temperature check for everything we do. So when you set out to say we're going to be bold disruptors with a kind heart, that's the people you hire. People who are breakthrough, people who are disruptive, people who have a disdain for the status quo, people who want to go left when everybody else is going right. But doing it in a heartful way. Everything we do is heartful. So even take the Twitch idea. Why are we even on Twitch? No beauty brand was on Twitch. There was no playbook for that, for a beauty brand. We broke through. The reason was because we knew that 77% of women were reporting being bullied on the platform and they were changing their names to aliases because they could play just as good as the boys, they could even beat the boys. But they were being bullied to a position that it reduced their own self worth and security. So then they couldn't play as well. So they would change their names and go in under aliases. And we said elf that and made a channel called elfu, which was a safe space for people to come and game and talk about these things. And we were there for them in a way that nobody else was and that was really important. And through those conversations you find out where are the rough spots. Very oftentimes you're going to get the negativity, you're going to get the haters. Coming in. Right? So you need moderators and you need to make sure that you protect your people. You also need to train them before they go live. This is a tough thing to do. You gentlemen are doing this. It's a tough thing to do. So we make sure that they have the training. We set them up for success. We make sure we have moderators in the comments. So if negativity or hate, which is something that we don't tolerate in our environment, that we can quickly move it to the side, actually have side conversations with folks and say, hey, this is not a place for that. We'd like you to be in here, but we're going to ask you to change your tone and how you show up here. And if they don't want to do that, then they're no longer permitted to be in our environment.

Speaker B: The bullying statistic I find so interesting, I think, um, we often tell new creators, uh, you know, look for communities that are underserved. And sometimes by that I just mean, like, people who aren't being spoken to. And that's where opportunity is 100%. So I couldn't recommend more brands. Doing what you're doing and looking digitally and saying, who are the communities online that are currently underserved and how can we serve them?

Speaker E: And that is actually ELF's entire model. We've become a champion of the underdog and a symbol of the overlooked. Even if you think about our foray into the Indy 500, would you ever have said, wait, elf is going to be in motorsports? No. But look at the contextual environment. 50% of the audience is women. Nobody's speaking to them. Then you have the only female driver in the race. In 109 years, there's only been eight female drivers. So Katherine Legg emerges as the only female driver in the race with a 50% female audience. And we're like, this is just ripe for somebody to step in and speak to these people. So we backed Katherine Leg. We showed up with an incredible activation. We were between. And I'm not making this up. Waste management and oil, Right. Our line was miles that people couldn't even get into our space. And what I found most incredible was the fathers, the brothers, the grandfathers who actually cried in my arms and said, wait, are you responsible for this? And I said, yes. Why is that touching you so emotionally? They said, because this is the first year that my entire family is so excited to be here. And you did that.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And feel seen.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Every member of my family.

Speaker E: Every member of my family.

Speaker A: This contrast has come up quite a bit, um, in terms of just a principle of storytelling. Right. Like you don't expect ELF to be at Indy 500. So I like that. I want to talk about also when you operate like a creator, like the way you're talking about is the way that a lot of our creator friends operate. It's just like, listen, move, I have an idea. I'll post it tomorrow. That also opens up a level of risk like we talked about, that is challenging.

Speaker E: Sure.

Speaker A: So again, one of the questions as we were, uh, walking up and down the cassette asking about ELF was just how have you managed controversy? How have you managed, uh, you know, specifically with the Matt Rife campaign, your community pushing back or, you know, giving feedback to you in that way. What's, um, the appetite for that at the company? And are there like lessons moving forward or is it, hey, we're going to do a lot, Some's going to hit with the community, some's not. What's the lesson from that?

Speaker E: Yeah, I think there's, there's a lot of less just hit on some, some really great ones. One of the things, if you go back again to being a bold disruptor with a kind heart, bold disruption compels you to do things differently and break through. By definition, when you disrupt the status quo, it is going to ruffle feathers.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker E: So. And it also means you're fearless and heartful. The fearlessness is key. So when things go wrong, the most important thing is to not let fear in the system. Nothing good happens when fear is in the driver's seat. So what you need to be thinking about is, have I created a brand that is essentially bulletproof in its value system and its belief system? We've been here for 22 years. A single fall down moment is not going to redefine 22 years of showing up for your community, of hearing them, of seeing them, of being a part of their world. So you have to have an appetite for some things are going to go wrong and we're going to make mistakes and we're going to misstep because we're human.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker E: And what matters is how we relate to our community in deeply meaningful ways and make sure that they know that we're all in this thing together. And sometimes we fall down and there's actually a humanity to it for sure that people appreciate. Like, okay, Elf, this one didn't land so well. But I love you. You've been here with me for years and that matters more to me than

Speaker A: anything that happens in friendships and family. Like I think it is, it is ruthlessly human.

Speaker E: It's ruthlessly human.

Speaker A: Up and down.

Speaker E: Yeah. And when you have tough moments like that, and I think this is really important for folks to not get spooked. It's like anything you fall down before you learn how to walk a million times. But if the first time you fell and scraped your knee, you said, oh, my God, I'm not going to walk because it's too scary, then you're never going to run a race. So what's really important is that our teams inside understand that they have license to fall down. Failure is where you learn. It's your greatest teacher. And if you don't have those hard moments, you don't learn the important lessons.

Speaker A: My last question for you, uh, one lesson from Hailey Bieber and Road, Obviously, you guys acquired the company. What have you learned from that brand? Because for me, again, I'm not. I'm not a purchaser of, uh, your products, but that brand was in my face and just so present in my life. It still is. What have you learned from. From Hayley?

Speaker E: Sure. Quite a few things. So actually, just to put some numbers on this, because I know you like numbers, and I think this is wild when you think about it, out of the 1800 cosmetics and skincare brands tracked by Nielsen. 1800, that's a massive pool. Okay? Only 14, 14 out of 1800, which, if you do quick math, is 0.1% pass $200 million in sales. Only 14. So what that tells you is lots of brands can enter into the category. Low barrier of entry. It is nearly impossible to scale. So only 14 brands have scaled above 200. She did that in three years. So what it told us is this brand is truly breakthrough, Right? You are breathing rare air. And it was 212 million in revenue when. When we came in and we made the purchase. So when you're in that situation, obviously you have a lot of suitors, right? So lesson number one is find the breakthrough. Lesson number two is, who's going to be the suitor of choice? And that comes down to humanity. Who's the kindred spirit that I want to wake up every day and feel comfortable and confident that my brand is in the right home? And that decision was made over dinner. It was made over dinner. Of course, she had to see the company and all the important information to get to the dinner. So all of that stuff was super important. But the dinner was the deciding factor. Sitting around a table, breaking bread, finishing each other's sentences, understanding who we are at Our core, seeing a mirror image of it, of one another, and the things that we care about and what we want for the brand, was absolutely critical. And then lesson three is let the brand be what the brand needs to be. We don't ever tell Hayley who to be, how to be, what to be with the brand. We say to Hayley, how can we help? What do you not have that you need? What kind of fuel can we put in the tank to help your vision be realized to its fullest extent? Wow.

Speaker A: Uh, that's great. I'm sold, by the way. Like, I feel I'm sold. Whatever you need for me, you need my hair, I'm in. I'm sorry. I'm a part of this.

Speaker E: If I leave you with one last thing, gentlemen, Especially because we are here in Cannes on hot days, full sunshine. One piece of advice for everybody, all the time. SPF your elf. Okay? So I am leaving you both with an SPF stick. I want everybody to wear their spf, please. You are the super easy to apply.

Speaker B: You're the first guest to bring a gift.

Speaker A: That's true.

Speaker E: Super easy to apply. I promise. I want to make it easiest for you as possible. It is a stick, like a deodorant, and you just put it on the places and spaces so you don't get a somewhere.

Speaker A: I love this. Thanks, Cory.

Speaker B: We're buying what you're selling.

Speaker A: I'm buying everything you're selling right now. Corey. This is good.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Let's make it.

Speaker E: Thank you so much for having me. And go friends.

Speaker A: All right. All right. A lot of guests on today's show of the Daily Brief. Um, what do you think were the biggest lessons today?

Speaker B: Honesty, uh, and juxtaposition. I m. Feel like whether it's, uh, you know, from Pablo, uh, to Sir John Hagerty to Corey, the theme of honesty being present on. On Twitch even, and being able to be there in an honest way.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Making sure you actually like your creative. Right. It's just honesty, uh, is so important. And then the other thing is juxtaposition. Are you in spaces where you're kind of surprising someone? Are you doing things that are surprising people? Because it's too easy to get lost in the monotony of what the masses are doing.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker A: I thought contrast was just such an interesting one. Even Corey talking about being at the Indy 500. You don't expect a beauty brand at a motorsport event.

Speaker C: Yeah, but.

Speaker A: But the other word that comes to mind that I can't stop thinking about is familiarity. And thinking about, like, Good advertising. Sometimes, especially you and I, we are absolutely, uh, culprits of this of, like, getting way too creative and out of the box and not just pulling it back to, like, what do people actually do with this product? So, like, simply Pablo, with the Nike app with shoes, what do they do? They run. Where do they run? On treadmills. What's a new version of a treadmill? A cement truck.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's like, a great ad. And it's simple.

Speaker B: Sir John Haggerty said, like, one of the biggest problems today with advertising is it doesn't focus on the product. Right, Right. And I do think that that gets more difficult with creators, especially when you integrate with creators, because our product is the connection to the audience, it's the story that we're telling. Uh, so inherently, it's a little bit more difficult to have the product that they're trying to sell take over our entire story. So I think there's, there's ways that we'll see that, uh, work better. I think the marketers is an example of that of, like, can we create a different place to talk about the product?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: All right, well, thanks for being with us for another day of the Daily brief from the LinkedIn Lounge. We'll be back here tomorrow for our last episode, the Final Day. The final day here at. Ah, Cannes, lions of the Daily Brief. If you have questions, comments, takes, leave them here on LinkedIn. We'll reply to them tomorrow on our last episode of the Daily Brief. We'll see you then.