In conversation with Mitch Caplan, Chairman of the Board & interim CEO, Yieldstreet

Speaker A: Hi everybody. Welcome to the, actually the last episode of this particular series on all things Evergreen and the convergence between public and private markets. I've had a fantastic array of guests on over the last few months both on the GP side and also on the uh, private bank wealth manager side. And um, there's been some really great insights into how this whole evolution is playing out with more high net worth and individual or non professional investors getting a uh, far bigger opportunity now to tap in to private markets and all of the myriads benefits that come along with that. I'm delighted to be uh, doing this last episode today with uh, Mitchell Kaplan. Mitch is the chairman of the board and interim chief executive officer at New York uh, based Yield street and um, fascinating platform, really big on pushing the ambitions for widening out the access to private markets in investors portfolios. And um, uh, Mitch, really great to uh, have you join me today. Thanks so much for your time.

Speaker B: My pleasure. It's great to be here.

Speaker A: So Mitch, when we spoke briefly last week there was a phrase that you used and I thought it was a great place to maybe kick off our discussion. Uh, and I'll just kind of quote unquote here. Um, admittedly maybe slightly paraphrasing you but we want to be the first robo advisor for private markets. Um, I think that's a great line and maybe a great insight into Yield Street's future ambitions. Maybe you could uh, speak a little bit on that.

Speaker B: Sure I can. It's a component of really the broader strategy in many ways. But you know, since I've gotten more involved not only as chair from about a year or so ago, but even as the CEO, you know, four months ago, uh, I'd say that one of the things that we have been very focused on is Yield street nets. So where are we going? Where's the ball moving and how fast can we get there? And I think one of the things that we have come to realize and understand, and in many ways it derives from my experience at building and running E Trade, is that if you really want to adequately serve customers and consumers both in the US and ultimately outside the US you really need to meet them where they are in terms of the experience they're looking for. And so while YieldStreet has been in existence for 10 years, for many of those years was really focused on allowing an investor access but had them choose their own adventure, move through the platform in a way in which they would see what was available and make individual decisions. We realized that the right way to evolve the business in Yieldstreet next is not only the do it yourself on one extreme and the other extreme is model portfolios, which is really the phrase I was using of the idea of being the first robo advisor for private market assets. So on the opposite extreme, if you really want to come onto the platform and say do it for me as opposed to I do it for myself, it is a solution and it looks in many ways like what you saw happen in both in the public markets around sort of model portfolios and robo advisory and in the middle between, on one hand the do it yourself and on the other hand the do it for me, we have sort of a guided experience using technology and uh, intellectual property from the likes of Wilshire and others to really help people create a more guided experience toward making decisions. And the other thing I will tell you again, I saw this very much at E Trade and we're seeing it here is you would intuitively think that one investor has one Persona. So just do it yourself or do it for me. What you actually learn is that an individual investor can want to subscribe to all three methods of interacting with us at different points in time and for different reasons. So in order to be as fulsome a service platform as we are aspiring to grow and be into, it only happens if we think about offering all these different ways in which you can interact with the platform and create the experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we'll get into it, I'll come back uh, shortly. Just to expand on the do it for me the model portfolio, uh, option. Before we do that, maybe just to just give a bit of background as to how YieldStreet has just approached building its platform, uh, capability really to support access to private markets. Can you just um, just give a little bit of backstory as to how you, how you've approached that?

Speaker B: Yeah, very happy to do it. So uh, for those of you who don't know, Yield street has been in existence for about ten years. Uh, it was built initially for the purpose that still exists today, which is access to private market assets for uh, emerging high net worth in the US So think of it as qualified purchasers and accredited investors. And we have remained very true to that vision. Right. But the way in which the business has evolved in many respects is that uh, in the early days of the business you really didn't have the depth of product that exists today. And with the evolution of product, I'll give you a stat which I think you'll find interesting. I invested in the business about five years ago and when I invested I invested around the simple philosophy as we wanted to build one of the leading and largest distribution platforms for private market assets. Right. And There were probably 50 interval funds when I invested. Today in the US alone, there are probably 500. So the prevalence and the creation of product in the private market arena, that's really being built specifically for retail, both through the ADVISE channel and through our channel. The direct to consumer is really game changing. And so the way to think about the platform is you really have two different things that really need to coalesce in a way to create the ideal experience. One is product and access to that product and the other is the technology journey and a customer experience that you're creating. And so in order, in our estimation, in order to be truly successful, you have to really be focused on optimizing both. So how can you, you know, one of the things that we think about all the time is um, the importance of uh, access to product. Right. As that product has evolved and we think about it in a way in which it really makes it digestible and consumable. So as I said, there's a lot more product being involved, evolving. But at the same time, as I was describing earlier, the way in which you want to interact in the customer journey and the simplification of the process is really paramount for long term success. You know, we've had to take what is a very complex process, try to use technology to take customers on a journey that simplifies it and makes it digestible and understandable so they can make truly informed decisions about the access. So it is both the access to product and the technology and the journey that you take the customer.

Speaker A: Yeah, the growth of the uh, interval funds space. Has that surprised you at all? Or do you think that is just a natural evolution of how, I suppose really how the private markets industry has continued to mature. Uh, and also the, the importance that technology and the sophistication of technology that maybe it's making interval funds a more appealing option for managers as well as now broadening it out to the individual investor as well.

Speaker B: Not. And the reason I'm not is again, sort of through my history in financial services, I've seen this happen. It's like I feel like I'm watching the same movie over and over. And the right way maybe to frame it for you is, is manufacturers, uh, or asset managers have always wanted to reach retail. And today trying to reach retail is really paramount because they feel like it's getting harder and harder through traditional institutional channels. So initially their focus was on maybe retail through advised channels, RIAs and fee based advisors and the like. But they realized they were missing an important component which was not only through the reas, but the whole direct to consumer channel. And so given that, I think they have come to realize that the size and scale of the retail market is enormous. The level of interest on behalf of retail investors is high. And so it really creates the perfect opportunity for them to start thinking about the creation of product into that channel. And when you start seeing some of the largest players do it, almost everybody in the ecosystem sees the value and starts creating.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, did you. So as the platform identified the opportunity to bring private markets funds onto the platform to broaden the access to the end investor, um, and give them a very, again a very uh, intuitive and easy to navigate experience. The user experience is super important with these things. And of course it's crucial that investors understand what they're buying. Um, were there any uh, structural or sort of operational uh, challenges that the Yield street team needed to address to, to, to expand into that area?

Speaker B: 100%, absolutely. And maybe if you give me just a moment to contextualize, I think it'll help. When I invested five years ago, one of the things that was most appealing to me and was a necessary sort of uh, foundational point in uh, order for us to make our investment was that the platform wasn't offering a single asset. So it wasn't just private equity or real estate or private credit or art or whatever, but that ultimately it was going to offer multiple asset classes. Because the value proposition for us is not only educating consumers about why private markets, but why Yield Street. And the first part is why is private markets necessary to really create the perfectly diverse portfolio? So you have both public and private, but then within private, why you need to have a diversity of choice so that you create a diverse portfolio of private market assets just like you do on the public side. And so we recognize that and sort of built from ground zero the ability to have access to multiple asset classes. So that in itself is complicated. And then when you add to that what you were referencing earlier, which is really trying to ensure that you accomplish two things that you really make the material understandable and digestible for consumers who want to come to a digital platform and experience access through that digital platform and at the same time ensure that they really understand the complexity of the product and are making a truly informed view. So a big part, as we've evolved the business, a big part for me is really uh, less about now. The manufacturing of product and more about the curation of product in a way which it helps really achieve the goals that we've set out and which answer the question for you about the complexity and we really have to have had to navigate. Right? You're building the plumbing and the infrastructure to allow people to be able to buy private market assets. In many ways it's not so different from what we had to do at E Trade in the early days of online banking, or I mean a brokerage or telebank in the early days of online banking. And then E Trade evolved into online investing. You really had to ensure that the plumbing was built correctly. Then you created the journey, as you've said, in an easy and understandable and digestible way. And then finally you're giving access to a host of solutions to create a curated diversified offering.

Speaker A: If I just compare the U.S. to Europe, the U.S. it's ahead of the curve in relation to Europe in terms of the amount of um, just the awareness and even maybe the level of exposure that the individual investors, let's just say high net worth and mass affluent, which obviously covers an awful lot of investors. But as a group, maybe in the US they've been more aware of the opportunity to get into private markets versus Europe. But now in Europe, as you see what's happening over here, you know, there's so much interest and demand and media coverage on the evergreen structure. Um, it's been the focus of this podcast series. You know, these open ended funds now are proving to be very, very attractive to the big, the big name gps, the global managers and the private banks and wealth platforms that want to start to add these products, you know, onto their respective platforms? Uh, how do you sort of look at what's happening in Europe compared to where you've seen the US evolve in the last few years, would you say?

Speaker B: Mitch, again I think you'll get used to this, but the benefit at least maybe is having both being old and also having sort of had the experience of the evolution of all this. So it reminds me so much of what happened at E Trade with certainly with online trading and ultimately with online investing, right where the US was definitively ahead of the curve. Um, again it goes back to the core premise of education and then choice. And so, you know, Y, X, ah, and then Y consider, you know, that particular provider. And so, you know, ultimately I think we're seeing exactly the same thing in prime markets. And so Europe, while behind the curve to start, will definitively catch up. And they already are. Right. And in some ways I think with the ALTIF legislation, I mean all the stuff that was happening, it's really sort of helping uh, create a smoother path for adoption. And honestly, if you're a global manufacturer of private market assets, you, you want to be able to create product that works everywhere around the globe, both in the US and Europe. In Asia, you know, you saw with superannuation in Australia. Uh, so like ultimately, and I think what you're suggesting is the reality that you're seeing in most places, but definitively in Europe and the US where it has caught on. So the conversation goes beyond the, the, the, the M GPS and the manufacturers. The conversation goes beyond the distribution platforms. It goes beyond everybody in the middle. Right? All uh, the raas and fee base. Like it is almost impossible to pick up an article or listen to a podcast or listen to CNBC or anything else without hearing this confluence of discussion about private market assets from almost everybody in the ecosystem. And ultimately today, like when I invested five years ago, I think it was, you know, people believed it, but they were still trying to validate market sizing and market adoption. Today you don't have to spend virtually a second on it because almost everybody in the ecosystem agrees with the size of the market and the adoption M.

Speaker A: I mean there are various figures that get bandied around in terms of the average high net worth exposure to private markets. Okay, not alternatives as a broad sort of term, but just private markets. Forget hedge funds for a moment. And you know, they're pretty modest numbers. I mean anywhere. Well, certainly low single digits. And so when people are now looking at the opportunity now to broaden out because of these evergreens and because of the interval funds in the US and even BDCs and so on, there are now, uh, there's a lot of excitement about, look, if that moves from, let's just say 3% on average within an investor's portfolio to say even 5%, um, that's a meaningful amount of inflow into private markets. That's, that's a significant number. It's a huge opportunity. Um, and, and I think one way that that might happen is if you look at the traditional access routes from private banks. They offered the feeder fund option that was always, you know, a very popular option for uh, for high net worth and ultra high net worth investors. Now they committed the capital, they came with the complexity of the multiple drawdowns, but at least they got into one of the big GPS because it was, you know, a uh, feeder fund. Happy with that. Now technology platforms have come along and they've democratized that access to 2.0, you could say, I think now with where we are with Evergreens, it's maybe distribution, you know, 3.0, where the costs to access are that much lower. Liquidity is quite, quite appealing if that's really what investors want. Although I'd argue that they shouldn't really be thinking about liquidity. However, it is now seriously lowering the barrier to entry. And at that point you have to think, should that investor, uh, be. Should they have the capacity to make the decision themselves on product X versus Y, or should they have somebody do it for them? Because what do they know necessarily about private equity or direct lending, private credit funds? How do they know what's a good fund and what's not a good fund? So there seems to be, uh, uh, uh, a consensus that the discretionary pool of capital could be a real game changer for private markets. Um, and it'll be achievable through the model portfolio option. The that do it for me. What are your views on that versus the advisory, by the way, the advisory route. What's your thought on that? And obviously Yield street you're offering now the Yield Street360 model portfolio solution. I just wonder what your view is on that and how that could scale the actual AUM within Evergreens and just these more sort of, uh, flexible, uh, fund solutions for private markets.

Speaker B: So I'll give you some context, which I think will be helpful. So over the years since our investment, we've worked with Oliver Wyman a few times, really just trying to understand market sizing, market dynamics, all stuff. And what we're hearing is that when they do the work, certainly in the US the level of interest in broad private markets. Right. So I would say all forms of private markets, which includes private credit, private equity, venture real estate, across the board, people seem to want exposure anywhere from 10 to 30% of their entire portfolio. And they understand that, you know, they are getting more and more educated as consumers about what I was describing earlier, the value of private markets to complete a diversified portfolio and then to have choice within the private markets to create a diversified portfolio portfolio. But you're right, adoption in the US Is in the low single digits. Uh, you know, if it moved to the 10%, which is the low end, it's still an enormous growth opportunity. And honestly, if it gets to 20 or 30, it's huge. And I think the manufacturers that you're referencing see that and understand. So then the question will be, in what capacity do they want to be able to adopt this? Is it the do it yourself. Is it the be guided or is it the uh, ys360? And again I think a big part of what we are trying to reinforce to investors is that the best way to create a portfolio is a diversified one such that you reduce exposure to any one concentration. And ultimately whether our customers choose to do that themselves and we help them, whether we give them sort of a guided solution or whether it's the do it for me. With ys360 I think we want to make sure we're offering all. But I agree with you. I think it is extremely interesting to try to encourage people as they're entering the space for the first time to choose something like a model portfolio. It's a way to test and learn. Right. And better understand sort of the whole dynamic. But the other thing is, at least in the US because we're tending to focus, as I said, only on QP and AI. So they would fall into the category of a margin high net worth. And the reason why this makes sense is it was your earlier commentary. When you get to the traditional private banking channels and the like in the wealth management space, they do create access but it really wasn't for emerging high net worth. It was really for very much high net worth and ultra high net worth. Because the check size even in a feeder fund could have been 250 or M5 or a million. And if you have five or six million dollars in investable assets, which by my estimation is a huge amount of money, you're still probably overly concentrated by buying anything at a million dollar price point. Right. It's just too much concentration. And so ultimately I think the right way to do it is to try to help uh, and we're doing it through a self directed channel but help guide the investor to make an informed choice about building a diversified portfolio that they understand. And it's remarkable how many of our customers really are very uh, sophisticated. Number one and two, really take the time to use our platform to go deep and really educate themselves so that they are making an informed decision.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. Well and I think that entry point into just getting broad diversification into private markets. Yeah the whole just give me broad diversified exposure makes total sense. I'm just kind of, I'm thinking about it from. Even if you even look at a different asset class like hedge funds and even going back, let's just go back 20 years, 25 years, started the century. Right. You would still have allocators who were sophisticated allocators of professional investors that would still want to Go through a fund of funds because they're the experts, they know how to create a portfolio of top class managers. I'll give you the allocation, you know what you're doing. So they, if that worked for institutional investors 25 years ago and they're getting broad exposure to ah, a wide mix of different hedge fund strategies, surely you know, it makes sense that if I'm an individual investor I should really probably be thinking of taking a similar approach where I get a broad diversified portfolio. Model portfolio gives me broad access to private markets. Fantastic. And then even if I'm a high net worth or ultra high net worth, I might then decide, well okay, that's, that's a great foundation and maybe I feel comfortable to take a few decisions myself on going with this part guided

Speaker B: and particularly if you have domain expertise around a particular area or whatever, whatever it may be. But listen, one of the things we learned both at Telebank and E Trade was you can, your job is to educate and curate and then you have to make sure you're doing a good job at both of those. But the choice still has to rest with the consumer when it's a self directed. And so our job is to educate. To your point, why something like ys360 is an interesting intersection and point of introduction. Why does it make sense? How do you think about it? But if you're choosing something else, at least make sure you're going through the education process with us to understand and make an informed decision.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then you're giving them different access points and everybody's different. They're going to have different levels of again different levels of risk appetizer as you would with the traditional public markets. Everybody has their own approach. So at the moment I just want to bring people's attention to the fact that at the moment you've got Carlyle Goldman's and Stepstone within that universe.

Speaker B: Um, M. Uh, the model portfolio is managed by Wilshire and then the three underlying funds as you pointed out correctly are Carlisle Goldman instead.

Speaker A: Okay, got it. So what, what would, what, what, what, what would be next? You uh, know as you, you've got that relationship, that strategic partnership with Wiltshire who are, who are obviously um, helping you know um, manage the model portfolio. What, what, what's next?

Speaker B: Yeah, so again we can launch multiple versions of um, this and should logically launch multiple versions where we have other uh, there are other uh, uh in. Within the model portfolio there are other managers. Right. It could be different areas within private market so that it continues it can be similar but a different choice for a different reason around duration or otherwise. And ultimately it can be beyond. There are other people who do a great job. In addition to Wilshire, there are others in the U.S. you know, that are doing this and doing it well. And so I, I think ultimately we are very dedicated to continue to evolve the platform around this idea of curation. So whether it's the do it for me and we're curating lots of interesting choices across multiple managers and you know, ultimately in the form of every flavor of third party fund. So it can be registered or unregistered, interval drawdown, whatever it may be. We want to give choice and diversity through education. We want to do the same thing through the guided experience and then we want to have m a lot of choice. If that's the whole construct around curation of choice, then we need to be doing that on the do it for me. So that ys360 goes beyond simply the introduction of what we did with Wilshire. But again as I said in the start of the hour, the reason we did this is we thought that the YS360 was really the introduction of the first sort of robo advisor for private market assets in the U.S. yeah, I

Speaker A: think from what you're describing there as well and as you further develop these relationships, obviously Wilshire obviously a very key uh, strategic partner in this and there will be others that I'm sure because ultimately they have to have the capacity to be able to, to manage these model portfolios. That's managing the inflows, outflows, all of the complexity. That's one of the challenges that I've heard separately is that as private markets do widen out it will require, if there are more model portfolio solutions in the marketplace, in us, in Europe, globally, it will require discretionary fund managers, the wealth platforms to have the capacity to be able to manage them. So they've got to have the operational infrastructure, technology capabilities to be comfortable knowing that if investor X has got a 50, 30, 20 portfolio that that 20% private market slice is doing exactly what it says on the pin.

Speaker B: 100%, 100% agree. And you know, ultimately is also managing the growth and rebalance in the portfolio because the uh, you know, how you allocate between the three funds is really based on a series of questions that we're asking to better understand what your long term goals are and then creating the right balance between those three to achieve your. And then obviously as there's performance and growth, you have to rebalance as People add more, take out, whatever. I mean it's not only the managing, but it's also of the existing portfolio. But as you pointed out, it's the managing of the evolution of the portfolio so that it stays in touch with what the original goals of the investor were and making sure that those original goals remain consistent for the investor.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure it took a while to determine even getting those partnerships. Uh, well, I don't know. Partially is not the right word, but bringing on the funds from Carlisle and Goldman Sachs and Stepstone, I am sure they were very long discussions and obviously um, a lot of considerations. But was there anything in particular that made them a good fit for what you were looking to achieve with this ys360?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, very much so. Like at the end of the day, as I said, each of them have a domain expertise in areas within private markets. But there are plenty of people who do that. But that was appealing to us. They had worked with Wilshire in the past, so that helped in terms of an understanding there. And ultimately we always thought of this as the launch of the initial third leg of the stole, which was do it for me, but very much believed that we would continue to grow it with Wilshire as well as potentially other partners with other third party funds. And so it was, uh, but you're really raising an interesting question which is in the early days of uh, yield street 10 years ago, product didn't really exist. So we had to actually be more than a distribution platform. We had to be an asset originator and an asset manager. So we had to partner with, with the underlying actual managers to create product and structure product for retail and then put it on platform and then continue to manage it and asset manager. And so as the business is evolving and the marketplace is evolving, we're trying to move more toward being a pure distribution platform where it's really around choice. And we have that option today because of the prevalence of product, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But no matter what, for us it really is this idea of how do we create the right product and in this curation journey and again 10 years ago we had to build it. Today the number of inbounds we get from funds, very large branded funds to smaller ones, whatever, who want to basically have access to retail through our platform. You know, it's just remarkable the degree to which we are now receiving inbound.

Speaker A: Just on that point, just, just on that level of interest inbound that you're getting. You've got these three very, very highly regarded uh, fund managers on, on the Platform, just when you think about the curation going forward. Because the curation I think is going to be what differentiates one distribution platform

Speaker B: because the product will become ubiquitous so it's curated. And the customer journey, you take the

Speaker A: customer, how will you be, how are you determining what use? You need to know what the end investors want to. So I wonder how you think about the future. Not what you've already achieved now, but over the next few years as you build out that ecosystem, uh, you know, how will you approach the curation? Making sure that you're giving what something that the end investor actually does want?

Speaker B: Ask your customer. So the best way to do this is to survey your existing customer base and prospective customer base in a way in which you really understand that you're meeting their needs right in this journey of curation. And ultimately I think the most important thing is choice. And I think because it's a tech platform and it has the ability to scale ad infinitum, you know, we can create a lot of choice, which really makes it more interesting then the technology has to be able to help curate that choice, as you're pointing out, in a way in which it's really serving the needs of the underlying consumer.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that again I think that underscores the, the just how important tech capability has really become now. And I, I, I mean there are some that, that are suggesting that, that you know, I do think there's a little bit, there is a lot of discussion about the, the liquidity aspect. Um, that is cape, that is that one can offer in Europe they refer to these products as semi liquids. And I was hearing, I was listening to an event ah, panel recently and somebody was making, and they were a very large manager and they were making the point that they shouldn't even be called semi. Liquid. Semi would suggest 50% and these are not semi liquid investments. So there is a bit of a risk that as private markets open up that it does maybe invite some unintended risks that if they're not very carefully curated and um, explained to the end investor that they end up going into something that they really haven't fully understood. And um, anytime you use liquid or liquidity, that's automatically what people are going to think, oh well, well I can invest in infrastructure but I can still get my money back. It's not really how they should be thinking about it. How are you thinking about that at Yield Street?

Speaker B: Yeah, I very much agree. And so listen, in the early days of E trade, I mean of Yield street, as I was saying when we were actually manufacturing the product, there was no such thing as liquidity, it just didn't exist. So you picked an underlying asset that you thought made sense, you structured it in a way and you were very clear about, you know, the fact that it was illiquid, average duration, whatever. With the advent of a lot of these funds. You're right, there's a lot of talk in the industry about liquidity and you know, it's definitely very tempered liquidity. I agree with you very much. And so the nice thing about a platform versus trying to sell it through an advised channel is you're not actually describing it, you're writing it or you're putting it into video content. So you're, you, you're in control in a very fulsome way of how you feed that information to the consumer so they truly understand. So even if it's called semi liquid, you, you basically have a video which says what does it mean to be semi liquid? Is this what happens? Whatever. So I just, I think, you know, this is one of the things I always loved both at Telebank and E Trade was if you were building a digital platform, you could so much control the content in a way in which it was consistently delivered and you knew it was delivered as fairly and as accurately as possible.

Speaker A: Okay, so that's going to be a continued focus for Yield street going forward. I mean, how do you see the next few years playing out as you continue to develop the curation on the platform and continue to maybe offer, you know, different versions of the model portfolio? If that's what your uh, if that's what the end investors is looking for. I just wonder how you, in everything that we've been discussing with, where. I'll equate it back to. Sorry, I'll relate it back to where the mutual fund industry was, you know, a few decades ago. Then we had this huge innovation with, with the ETF market and all of a sudden it became really, really interesting to get very, very broad. You know, iShares, diversified ETFs. Fantastic. But then, you know, over time they got more and more sophisticated, more niche, and that it could start to build a very sophisticated exposure using ETFs. I mean, do you think, how do you see private markets evolving? I guess is what I'm asking for you. Uh,

Speaker B: and so I think if the evolution, and think of in some ways as Yield street being a microcosm of the evolution. So in the very early days, product didn't exist and as I said, we had to Park Then third party funds started to become increasing more prevalent. So it was a way to move away from the manufacturing to m more basically putting uh, private market assets in a third party fund on platform. And then I think the next will be the evolution of the kind of product that goes into these fund structures and then the final evolution will be how do you curate them in a way in which they fit into model products, portfolios and all of it is meant to just give broader exposure and access and, and again the most important thing we can do is educate and curate. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: I mean and Obviously with the 401k plans now, yeah, really beginning to open up now and you know, give it again giving that, that ability now to add private equity into these, you know, retirement plans. Uh, you've mentioned earlier on that in Europe, you know we've got the LTIF in continental Europe, but we've got the ALTAF in, in the uk. Um, and you know, these are important developments to make sure that the general population, the retirement fund population, um, you know, are not missing out on. Um, you know, as even you and I have seen over the over years now that the listed universe, it has shrunk. I think you know as well as I do, Mitch, I think even if you look at the US public markets, they probably shrunk by about 50% over uh, the last 20, 30 years. So you know, for the average investor you're thinking, well, you know, all of a sudden I look at indexes like the S and P and ultimately There are about seven or 10 stocks that drive all of that performance, performance. You look at other indices, similar sort of situation. It's massively concentrated and at the same time there are all of these innovative companies that are staying longer, staying private for longer, driving all of this innovation and growth. And all I'm hearing about is private markets. But I would like to have a little bit of that in my portfolio.

Speaker B: For sure, for sure. But listen, I think it's, you have to think about the wealth segmentation and then within the wealth segmentation the degree of understanding and experience. And so while I understand opening it to 401ks and it makes sense, you have to do it with real guardrails to protect the, you know, certainly the Main street and even the mass affluent consumer. And it's why for us we've stayed so focused on QP and.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no it's, it's been really brilliant to get your insights on this. Um, Mitch, I mean it's good, good to know that it's been a, it's been a great 10 years with yield street so far. I think that, I think the next 10 years are going to be super interesting. And uh, it's a unique, unique perspective that I can get from you on this. Given that, uh, that um, especially with your history with E Trade as well. I think it's, it's fascinating that we're talking about private markets almost in a way that you saw with the evolution of online trading back in the day,

Speaker B: the evolution from online trading to even broader online investing, and then the evolution from mutual funds to, uh, ETFs. But yes, I think it's going to be a really interesting 10 years. I think private markets within yostree, we don't allow anybody to say the word alternative. View is it shouldn't be an alternative, it should be an integral part of your portfolio. And so just as you need public markets, you need private exposure. And as you say, there's a confluence of so many things happening that I think you're sort of right at that tipping point for true mass adoption. Certainly in different wealth segments and certainly in the segment we're serving because it's, there's the intersection of interest, the intersection of product, the intersection of value, the intersection of, of a digital distribution channel. All coalesces in a way in which I think you can really see very, very rapid adoption.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's a brilliant way to wrap up our discussion. Um, been really fascinating. Thanks so much for your time speaking to me today. Mitch, it's been a real pleasure and good luck for the rest of the year.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Take care. Bye bye. It.