Democratizing Technology in Finance and Accounting, a Chat with Adeel Mushtaq

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the CFO Corner. I'm your host Nick Ezzo. In the CFO Corner we sit down with CFOs and corporate finance professionals to hear about the innovative approaches and technology they use to scale and grow their organizations. They share the challenges they're facing with mundane repetitive tasks and they give their takes on what they'd like to see in the corporate finance function that can help CFOs and other finance professionals ah, achieve a stress free working life. Today I'm joined by Adil Mushtaq. He's a dynamic professional specializing in investment management and treasury. Boasting extensive experience in finance, operations and business transformation. His expertise spans both financial and non financial services sectors. Adil's passion lies in the success of businesses and he's been a key player in numerous success stories. Throughout his 24 year career as a chartered accountant he's held prominent roles as svp, Cisco CFO and COO of leading asset management firms. Today he's the founder of a startup serving investment and asset managers at midsize firms. Welcome Adeel.

Speaker A: Thank you Nick. Great to be here.

Speaker B: So first of all Adeel, can you tell me a little bit about your current role today?

Speaker A: Um, so thank you very much for the introduction. Ah, so I'm currently working on a startup. It's a startup focused on investment management firms and what we have, the value, the product we are bringing in is I worked with large investment management firms in my career during my old time as a CFO and COO and uh, those large investment firms have access to the tools which are like multimillion dollar tools, uh, investment management technology based software solutions available. So what we are trying to do is we're trying to bring the same technology and tools to small and medium sized investment firms in this time.

Speaker B: That's great. I love that. Um, I love the idea of bringing the tools that are up till now only available for larger firms. Now you're bringing those, you're sort of democratizing the technology a bit and bringing that to small and mid sized firms to give them that same advantage that you had at larger firms.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. This is democratization.

Speaker B: I love it, I love it. So you've worked with a lot of CFOs, you've been a CFO. Um, in your experience Adil, uh, how have you seen the role of the CFO changed in the last five or 10 years and where do you see it heading in the next five years?

Speaker A: Great question. I will actually say I have seen M because my career is 24 years. And uh, you know, when I started my career, my first audit client and during my cause, um, I mean I was working on that first training audit client and they had those massive cash registers and general ledgers and you know somebody will be posting manual entries, uh, all day, all, every day of the week. And it was like a very long cumbersome, uh, exercise and then closing and preparing your financial statement. So from that leap I've seen now in my roles, uh, with working for investment firms, uh, where we're talking about high frequency trading and algo trading in those like you know, machines trading to machines. Ah. As you've heard, uh, in the financial markets nowadays most of the trading is done by machines. In those uh, conditions, most of the trades are actually processed into financial ledgers through automated software technology. So we don't really post any debit includes anymore. We work on the exceptions. And uh, so I've seen a big leap from where I started to where I am now. And uh, with AI coming in and the new technologies evolving every day, I think the future is more technology than less technology.

Speaker B: Well, I hope so because I work for a technology firm. Um, so let's drill down a bit more because I liked what you said there about machines trading with machines. So I think it's no surprise that the asset management industry is going through a transformation specifically with automation and technology. Machines are trading with machines which results in a huge transactional volume. So um, how do you manage those enormous volumes of transactions and report on them both accurately and efficiently?

Speaker A: So this is what the idea is of these technologies. Sophisticated tools available to the large master management firms who have budgets to spend millions of dollars on these tools and continuously evolving it. This is like, you know, just to understand, it's not like you bought a tool today and then it will work for like next 10, 20 years. It might work for a year or two and then you need to update, upgrade. So it's a continuous investment into those technology tools because it's technology and it's evolving. So what these tools basically do is they have, ah, you know, if we talk in accounting terms we say I have like 10 products or 20 products or 100 products. Okay, let's just transition this products into the financial markets. I have stocks, I have bonds, I have equities, I have um, alternative investment derivatives and different type of instruments. Now all those instruments are coded into these technology based tools. So when I trade an equity instrument, my software technology platform knows that I'm trading an equity instrument and then it knows how to process debit and credits for those instruments and then it will process automatically. So if I'm trading one instrument a day or I'm trading hundreds of instruments a day, it doesn't matter because for technology it's the same thing. But the technology does not stop here because we don't have one instrument. We have hundreds of thousands of instruments available in the market. So what these technology backbone providers have done is they have created security masters for all of those instruments. So whenever I'm, let's say I'm trading a US Government bond and this is what the interest rates are and this is how I need to do, the accounting system knows how I need to do. Account for that bond and it will take care of it. So technology has enabled us to focus on exceptions because technology cannot do 100%. You know, we know underfitting and overfitting in the machine learning, machine learning, machine learning language. Uh, so we cannot have overfitting or underfitting. So we need to balance it out. Otherwise the system will not work. So system picks up about 90%, 95%, but the exceptions are depending on like 5 to 10%. And then some accountants have to go in and fix those, uh, and make sure that we have the machines learning to take care of it for the future.

Speaker B: Well, that makes sense. Um, I always think about technology as augmenting human work, not necessarily replacing it. But since we're on the topic, I'll throw the question out there that I've asked every guest that's been on this show. Adil, will robots take away accounting or trading jobs?

Speaker A: Uh, that's an interesting question. Ah, if you're talking about robots, are you talking about like, like Terminators sitting on a desk punching in ledgers and you know, processing transactions? Absolutely. No, but if you're talking about machines processing machines, you know, machines talking to each other and then processing trades and accounting and everything, it's already happening. Uh, you know, if you have watched this movie called the Hummingbird Project, it came out and uh, you know, they were, they were trying to take advantage of like nanoseconds and small amount of time so that they have advantage, uh, to, you know, to get advantage over the competitors in the market. So I mean, and then, you know, there's a lot of examples of high frequency trading and everything. So this is all machines algo trading where you just process an algo and an algo will process according to, uh, that algorithm has been built in. So if you talk about machines, machine trading and robots taking our jobs, it's already Happening. And, and to be honest, they have taken our jobs. But I would, I would put it this way, that they have taken our jobs which were more mundane, you know, and they have replaced it with something more, you know, more elegant and where you have to, you have to, you have to step ahead of the machine and train those machines to better enable machines, uh, to perform. So I mean like, you know, we can talk about the same thing was happening when typewriters were introduced, right. And then from typewriters, the, the computers were introduced. I mean, I mean I can, I can easily tell you that there are more people using Microsoft Word than ever been people using typewriters.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And uh, so, so in one way you can say that typewriter type test jobs have been replaced. Yes, they have been replaced. But uh, there'll be more jobs created people of people using Word, Excel and different, other applications. So, so the same thing is happening now and will continue to happen. So we need to make sure we upgrade ourselves and we are future, future proof.

Speaker B: Well, it just occurred to me that now I'm a typist, uh, so we're

Speaker A: all typists, you know, you know, I was talking to, Sorry about that, but I, you know, the example came into my mind. I was just, you know, we were watching some TikTok video of how machines are actually, you know, preparing those PowerPoint presentations. And you know, I, I, I of mine was showing me that video and saying, look, look how machines are going to replace our jobs. And um, you know, if you have seen that video about how machines are actually preparing those PowerPoint presentations better than humans. Ah, you know what I mean? And uh, so my job was like, you know, to just give comfort to my team member and say, yes, these jobs will be taking over, but uh, you need to upgrade yourself and humans are not going anywhere.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: That's the answer.

Speaker B: Yeah. And machines will never, well, at least not in our lifetime. I think they won't be able to empathize and provide if a customer, uh, is irate and they need somebody to calm them down, uh, or actually um, to exercise judgment. Human beings can make judgment and we can understand nuance and maybe machine learning will get the, the robots there at some point in time. But I think what you, you pointed out very rightly that the machines are doing a lot of the mundane stuff and it's elevating human beings to do the higher level brain work, I would call it, um, the things that require more, more judgment, more empathy and things that only human beings can do.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think we have to think about how to balance ourselves. Uh, the worry I have is for the new generation, like, I can just give you example of my, my, my kids. And um, I mean, my daughter is like, you know, love Siri. I mean, you know, this is, this is the generation they have born with these type of tools. And anything she needs to do, she will just call Siri and say, hey, Siri, what's the temperature, what day it is? You know, I was weather, should I carry umbrella or not? You know, all those things, small, small things. They have started using these technology tools better and better than us. I mean, I, you know, like, for example, let's say I have to check what temperature it is. And most probably what I would do is I would just open my phone and look and say, how what is the temperature looks like? You know, I know I have the Siri available and I can talk to Siri and get it very quickly. And then, you know, like a day before yesterday, my daughter was saying, well, why don't you ask Siri? And you know, Siri will tell you the weather.

Speaker B: So, you know, personal assistant.

Speaker A: Absolutely, it's your personal assistant and free of cost. So I think the new generation is getting a little bit more dependent on the technology. Like, you know, we have heard about this chat GPT and kids producing their assignments and stories and essays on GPT. I think somewhere we have to balance it and say, you know, how technology, how do we make sure we use the technology? Rather we become like completely dependent on technology.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. I mean, uh, you can ask chat GPT or GPT4 to write an essay, but then when the teacher says, well, what does this mean? The student either understands or doesn't understand it. You can't fake understanding. Um, which, which leads me to my next question, which is. So, you know, as, as a finance professional, as an investment professional, um, your job is sort of now moving more toward information technology. And information technology was its own realm. How do you think about technology and how do you think about. What advice would you give CFOs and finance people, investment people, on how to upgrade their skills to better understand and embrace technology?

Speaker A: No, it's a perfect question. And this is the world of technology. And to be honest, when I started working, uh, in my role with Qatar Insurance Company, my technology knowledge was limited. I mean, I know how these tools work, but going into the core of the technology and understanding how your connectivity works with machines, talking to machines, we're talking about APIs, we're talking about Swift messaging system, you know, how to make sure those communications are secured as well. Uh, but you know, my limited, my knowledge of those APIs and machines, uh, talking to machine was limited. But then when I stepped in I, it was like part and parcel of the job. And when I moved on to the next job, I had to implement complete technology, uh, automated technology, uh, communication network where our systems were talking to the banks and uh, other counterparties on a near real time basis. Some of them were real time and some of them were on a batch processing basis. And then we were talking about Azure and we're talking about like you know, virtual machines and uh, you know, so all those things were new to me, but they were not. So I mean this sounds daunting but once you get there, get into it the nitty gritty and it's not that uh, daunting. And it is all, you know, available, the knowledge is available and courses are available and people are available to make sure you understand it. I mean end of the day I don't have to develop anything but I have to make sure I understand. And my advice to CFOs now is uh, that this is part and parcel of the job. Uh, so from the technology perspective as well as uh, transformation. So transformation and technology is part and parcel of the job and technology and transformation does not stop in one transformation. It is like, you know, mega transformation. As a cfo you have to think about not next five days or a month or six months, you have to think about next three years, five years, ten years, how your, you know, organization's needs will look like and how are you going to process them. Uh, because as a CFO you just don't have to think about closing to closing. You have to think about longer term and uh, needs and requirements and then how to make sure our technology is, is able to cater those needs for

Speaker B: sure then this interview has gone by so fast. I'm going to leave you with the last word. So I'm going to ask Adil any final thoughts for the CFO Corner audience.

Speaker A: Um, I think we have covered quite a lot of ground. Um, so I'll just give you some background about my, the venture I'm working on. I'm really passionate about it and uh, this venture is, I mean as you said very rightly, it's democratizing technology and making it available to small and medium sized firms which was never available to them before. Uh, so I will be sharing more details in the future, uh, on my social media accounts. Uh, but uh, right now the concept is that we are taking these multi million dollar technology, uh, infrastructure and making it available to small and medium sized firms, investment management firms so that they can have the same advantage which other firms have. And the main objective is to reduce the dependence on employees, I mean like full time human workers and depend more on machines and technology to increase your efficiency, accuracy as well as speed of processing. Uh, you know like I'll just give you one example. Like you know like for example reconciliations. Uh, you know we know investment management firms have or everybody has a bank accounts and you know you're doing tradings and so most of the people, I mean you. I do it myself for my bank. I uh, you know I reconcile my own bank manually. But think uh, about machine spreading, ah, algo trading and then we talk about hundreds and thousands of transactions and then somebody is manually reconciling the paper statements or electronic statements. What about if machine does it for you, how does it sound? And if machine can do it instead of you doing it once a month, Machine can do it every day of the week, uh, every hour if you want.

Speaker B: You can find out what your guest position is any day of the week,

Speaker A: any exactly depending on, depending on the materiality and need you can configure it and uh, machines will do it. So we're talking about real advantage to small and medium sized firm as well as uh, which available to large investment.

Speaker B: Very exciting stuff and I definitely will be following your progress Adil as you um, unveil your startup, bring it out of stealth mode and help democratize technology for small and medium sized businesses. Well that's all the time we have for today folks. I would like to thank Adil for Mushtaq for coming uh on the show and spending some time with us. On behalf of the Auditoria team, the CFO Corner video and all the smart bots that are out there, thank you and enjoy the rest of your day.

Speaker A: Thank you Nick. Thank you.