S5 Ep105: Suzy Welch - Author, Professor, & Thought Leader On Finding the Courage to ‘Becoming You’ in Motherhood and Beyond

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome back to the Big Move podcast. I'm your host, Em. Um, I'm a content creator, podcast producer, and a mother. And as I thought about a new season of the podcast, I went back to my roots and what made me start this show to begin with. At its core, it's this idea of connection, relatability, and motivating each other through the impactful conversations we're having as women. I'll be talking to the same powerhouse caliber of female guests that I know we're going to light you up. But getting real on how they've redefined themselves in entirely new seasons and phases of life, we're honing in on what fuels us, what brings us back to ourselves, and ultimately, what keeps us moving. So with that, let's get into new episodes.

Speaker A: Susie.

Speaker B: Hi.

Speaker A: Welcome to the show.

Speaker C: I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: I'm so excited to have you on. We have a lot of important subject matter to get in with you. We're going to jump right in for those that don't already know you and who you are and what you're all about. Can you give us just a quick intro?

Speaker C: Sure. I'm Susie Welch. Uh, my day job, uh, is that I'm a professor at NYU Stern School of Business. I teach management. I also teach a class called Becoming you, which something tells me we might be talking about today. My life has been one of stage studying people and their careers, and the balance that we strike between our lives and our careers has been my area of focus, and so I'm thrilled to talk about that.

Speaker A: Amazing. So, Susie, I love to just set sort of getting the lay of the land with my guests. With, what's your big move? Has there been a pivotal turning point or something that comes up when you really think about what's shaped your journey and your story so far?

Speaker C: Oh, uh, does this podcast. 17 hours. I mean, like, my big move. I've had so many big moves, but I had a really big move five years ago, and it completely transformed my life. And it was a really, you know, you think you have daring moments, but this was the most daring of them all. And so just a little bit of background was that I had been a broadcast journalist for many years. I had a couple of shows. I was on the Today show, and my focus was on careers in life and women, balancing those two things. And that was a great life. And I had four children, and they work together as well as it can. It's, you know, always every single day.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Of an s Show, if you know what I mean. But that was going along. But then my husband got sick and in 2017. And he fought and I fought along his side side for many years. But very sadly, in 2020, he died. And, uh, when he did, I went to the woods. It was the middle of the pandemic. I went to the woods with my kids and their spouses. My kids are in their 30s now. And honestly, there was a period where I thought I would never come out. I was sad and I was shook up. And I was like, who am I without him and who am I now? I didn't want to go back to broadcast journalism for a bunch of different reasons. I loved it. But I was done for many reasons. And there was a moment a bunch of different things came together and I decided that I had built for many years a methodology to help people figure out how to move from one thing in their life to another. Very meta in a way, because I was moving too. And I took this idea to NYU Stern, where I had known the dean for many years. And I said, I think I would like to propose a class here. And he said, well, let's try it as an experiment. And it was like a total reinvention. He asked me, have you ever taught before? And I was like, um, no. But he said, let's try it as a small experiment. You could fast forward now, five years later, it's an extremely popular class. I was asked to join the faculty full time. I started teaching management. And I completely, you know, I went from a devastated, confused, uh, paralyzed, in a way, widow in the woods. I mean, I was in upstate New York at the time, just sort of saying, I'm never leaving this place. I was walking in the woods with my dog a lot of hours a day to a person who just said, I'm not going to let that be the last chapter. And it, it took a lot. I was scared. I was like, what if I fail? And then I thought, so what? So freaking what? And I stepped into a new chapter where I had to bet on myself. And I can honestly say I don't know if I had ever bet on myself before in my life. I had been a pretty cautious person. I wanted other people to bet on me, but I was not ready to bet on myself. And then I thought, this is it. I'm going to bet on my self. And if I fail, I fail. And. And onward. So I did that. That was five, five and a half, almost six years ago. And, uh, it's been an amazing, mind blowing, transformative ride ever since. And I don't know, I'm sure that along the way, uh, women and friends and people had said to me things like, you got to bet on yourself. You got to step into your, into yourself. And I don't know why I couldn't hear it until I heard it. But, uh, once I did it, I thought, I wish I had heard this and done this in my 30s. I missed a lot because of it. So. But I'm back.

Speaker A: Firstly, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband and thank you for being so open and sharing that. What a transformative time for you. And I think what's so interesting is like, you know, the thing that so many of us fear the most, you went into it head on. And I feel like it kind of forced you to just take that risk

Speaker B: and like, the resiliency that also comes along with that.

Speaker A: There's just so many things in that that I think is so empowering and beautiful.

Speaker C: Oh, I, uh, mean, what choice do you have? In a way, right? It's like the only way out is through. And a great loss like that, you know, it changed my whole view because, like, well, if the worst thing in the world has happened to you, so anything else is less. And so you, it gave me all sorts of power. And I actually just felt him, you know, like saying, just do. He had said to me before he died, go get your life. And I hadn't known what he meant, but I mean, when somebody is sick, and I'm sure many of your listeners have gone through a long illness with a spouse or a friend or a parent, and when somebody's sick, you go into a tunnel, the world goes away. And he was sad that the world went away from me. And he said, when I'm gone, go get that life back. And I, I always said to him, like, stop talking about that. Don't say that. I don't know what. But I, I, I, uh, understood it after he was gone. And sometimes I felt like, oh, is trying to get my life back. Does it not honor him properly? And then I thought, well, he was the one who told me to do it. And so it, but it's complicated. It is, but I, I mean, there are many times where I've been really tired because I've built a business. So I went back to teach and alongside I started a business to sort of support stuff that I'm doing in the classroom. And I now have 20 people on my team and I have become an entrepreneur and a, uh, founder. And I just, you know, I just feel like, okay, I. This is if not now, when? And somebody the other day said, susie, you have such a why not life. You just do everything thinking, why not? And I think, yeah, that's actually true. But that wasn't the story of my life earlier. I mean, I became a sort of a why not girl quite late in the game.

Speaker A: Totally. And such a road to get here. And now look at you. I think it's so cool. And I want to kind of jump directly into sort of becoming you as you sort of just painted it so perfectly, like, you're a professor, you're a journalist, an author, a thought leader, podcaster, mother of four, which I'm very happy to have you here today to talk about motherhood specifically. But talk to us about your book becoming you. The methodology, and just kind of peel it back a little bit. What's the main premise? And really, who is it for?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, we have found it's for everyone, which has been much to my joy and surprise. Look, I started becoming you. This methodology as a class for MBAs. And the methodology, which is 13 parts, basically says, okay, everybody tells you to go live. Your purpose. How the heck do you do it? How do you. How do you figure out what your purpose is? Forget how you do it. Well, how do you even figure out your purpose? Well, some people are born knowing, okay, I've got to sing opera, I've got to be a surgeon. But most people are like, well, I could be this, or I could be that, or, uh, that looks cool. And the world is changing. What's my purpose? So I had this methodology. I had this idea. I had developed it for about 20 years. And so I started teaching the class. And then there was a lot of demand, it appeared, for after people took the class. Like, they wanted their siblings to take it, they wanted their parents to take it. And so I went to the dean of NYU and I said, said, look, can we teach us an open enrollment? And he said, I think that's a great idea. And so we then found out that people would come from around the world and they would be young and old, and they could be unemployed or fabulously employed. They could be mothers, they could be grandmothers. And we started teaching in open enrollment. And then, uh, it became clear that my old publisher. I've written several books. My old publisher took me out to lunch, we had some wine, which I never do, and next thing I knew, I agreed to write the book. I mean, she liquored me up.

Speaker A: Okay, I love that.

Speaker C: And. But I knew the book had to be written. Uh, and the book describes the methodology. It walks you right through it, and it says, okay, look, to figure out what your purpose is, you need to know three data sets. The first is, what are your values? No one knows their values. They don't. I have research that shows it. Most people think, oh, um, my values are kindness and respect, but those are virtues. And we're not. Values are choices about how we live, work, play, parent, be in relationship. And there's 16 of them, and everybody has all 16 in different amounts. And you need to figure out what your values actually are. And you understand, need to understand where the conflicts and harmonies are between them. So that was the first part of the becoming you methodology. The second part is you need to know what you're actually good at. Not what people tell you you're good at, not what you hope you're good at, but what you actually are good at. And I mean that by cognitively, like what you're good at intellectually and what your personality makes you good at. Because your personality can make or break your pursuit of your purpose. You know, you can really want to do X, Y and Z and be an introvert, and it's just not going to happen because you're working against type. And then the third data set that we excavate is what's out there. You know, what jobs are out there, what industries are out there, what megatrends are out there. And then when you ask what's out there, there's two other things you've got to ask. What's growing and what calls you emotionally and intellectually? So we methodically work through excavating those three data sets. It's fun. There's lots of games and exercises and tests and so forth. You took one of the tests, the values bridge, which basically just in 22 minutes tells you what your values are in rank order. We had to develop that test so that more people could do the becoming you methodology. And so, uh, you excavate all those three data sets, and then all that data goes into a tool called the Career Catalyst, and out pops your purpose. I mean, it lit. We made a digital tool of it. Because I couldn't be all places, all time at the beginning. We did that, like in class or in office hours. And then that we started. Too many, like, about 500,000 people have gone through this method methodology. So we've now automated it. But, uh, there's still your own heart and soul in it. And so that's what, uh, becoming you is. That's what's in the book, but it's also in. We have workshops and all sorts of ways for people to get it. Because my, my joy, my purpose is making sure people find their purpose. And so we are always thinking about ways to help people find their purpose. So that's what, that's what I do all day. It's fantastic. Because when people find their purpose, they tell you. And they're usually unbelievably happy and relieved. They're like, I needed to know this. I have been struggling and I get it. It's very human to struggle with knowing what your purpose is. And if you throw kids into the mix, it can get really confusing because you're looking into their little phases and you're thinking, well, what other purpose could I have but these kids? But then there's this feeling and this ache in you is like, yeah, ah, they are my purpose. But also, you know, and. And so it's complicated for us.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess that was one of my first question is like going back to the baseline of, um. Like, what is signaling to someone that maybe they're misaligned in terms of their values, their interests, their lifestyle? Like, what are the signals you mentioned strugg, or just feeling like, right, they're a mother. This is my sole purpose. But no, there's like an ache somewhere else. What is sounding off in the brain that's saying, maybe, maybe I should try this. Maybe I should look into this.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know. I mean, like, you know, it. It's like when you're in love, you know when you're in pain, right? It's like it's an ache. It is like. And sometimes. And you can't put a word to it, you have no idea what it is because you should be happy and you should feel great. It's like, you know, it's kind of like, okay, everything's fine. It's B plus or it's B. In some ways it's better if it's like C or C minus because you will do something to get out of that discomfort. If you feel this kind of ache of waiting and it's like, is this enough? And you look at other people's lives with, um, you know, with kind of longing or envy or you miss your old self or you find that you're sad. Like, I remember I knew when things were really, really off kilter when I was washing the dishes and I remember my back being to the family and I was just crying. And it wasn't that I didn't love them. And it wasn't that I didn't understand that it was my purpose to take care of them. But I missed me terribly. And, uh. And I couldn't. I was holding my breath. I didn't want to have to wait for them to go away to be myself. And I had to do some dramatic stuff to. To live into my purpose while also fulfilling my purpose as a mom. That's. That's. Those are some hard years. And the reason why the years are hard is that biology does a crazy thing for us. And it's just the way it is. Is that because of when we have our babies generally, um, those years are sort of 18, 15, 18 years that overlap when our children need us, mind, body and soul. They need every single part of us, uh, 24, seven. And if we are working, we're in that period that if we want to kind of have an acceleration or trajectory that feels right, our work needs us, mind, body and soul, 24, 7. And it so happens those 18 years overlap sort of from when we're 25 to 30, 40. It is the condition. I mean, I don't know a way out of it. I don't know any. I mean, I have advice on how to manage it, but I. There's no. If you've decided to have children, there's no escaping this. This minefield.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I have many questions in the sort of like, identity and motherhood realm that I want to get to. But before that, I want to stick here with becoming you in the values bridges. A couple other questions for you. If somebody is at a big crossroads in their career, their relationship, a big life decision, or their perhaps family planning, is this a good time to dive into becoming you? Like, tell us a little bit about what that looks like.

Speaker C: Look, I've seen people use it at every. I mean, people have used it from ages 16 to 68. And look, when as, uh, many people have taken it, as I've seen, they're at every kind of crossroads. You know, they. I see people take it before they decide to have children. Whether they're going to freeze their eggs, whether they should get a divorce, whether they should take a promotion. I think that the first step is to take the values bridge or in the book lists and describes all the values, and you can try to rank order them yourself. The problem is we're really bad at that. Identity gets in the way. There's, uh, something that's called desirability bias, which we're just all human beings and that is that we rank order our values According to how we think they should be rank ordered. And so the test is designed by, I mean, we have a wonderful team of psychometricians and behavioral scientists and so forth. And the test is designed, it's a hundred questions and it will rank order your values. It asks you to imagine your life as you really want it and to imagine your life and then to talk about your life, answer questions about your life as it really is. And it will tell you, look, here are your real values and value by value, here's how much you're living your value. So you get, you saw it when you took it yourself that you get a score about how much you're actually living each value. And it's, you get those results back and it's not for the faint of heart, um, because you can find out some really important m information. But it's all addressable. Maybe not immediately, but it is. But it does sort of tell you where motherhood stands for you with the value of family centrism. And it tells you where work stands for you with work centrism and where achievement stands for you with achievement. How much excitement matters to you. That's the value of scope. I mean, there's uh, you know, every single different way you show up and relate in the world is a value and it's rank ordered for you. And there's a moment where you see, oh my God. My number one value is say family centrism on my children. But my number two value is achievement. And sometimes it's just fantastic to have words to say, oh, this is what's going on. It's not that I'm confused, it's not that I'm mad. What's going on is I have two. My two main values are in complete conflict with each other. Now I can start thinking about how to manage that conflict or how to make it go away. I mean, there are ways to make it go away, which is that you let go of one of your values, which I don't recommend, but you can do that or you manage it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, and I took it myself and it's, it really is feeling like it's going back to basics. It feels like, you know, our values have been this lofty idea that maybe has just kind of fallen to the backdrop. And I feel like with going through these exercises, it brings it to the forefront and I find myself stopping and kind of thinking about, you know, what kind of came up in my assessment. I guess my question for you is once you know your values and you're sort of thinking about these things more on a day to day basis. Like how do we start to align more or what do we kind of do from here now that we have this sort of like baseline?

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, well, I mean, I've just seen so many lives transformed by having this language. I mean, suddenly having it, we start to have different conversations. Look, the result of it is two things. One is that we start to have compassionate self awareness. We can stop beating ourselves up or questioning ourselves and we can just say, okay, I get me now. I. I get what? I get the. I get the feelings inside. I have words for them. So there's this first step is this kind of compassion, self awareness, which then allows you to stop blaming other people for what's going on. It's going on in you. You can have people help you work it out, but it's, uh, it's in you. The second part of it is it gives you a language, a shared language to start talking about. Talking to the people. Usually your partner or your. In my case, I used to talk to my own children about how I wanted to organize my life. I remember when I figured out my values, turning to my kids, and they were really young then, they were under eight. So the four of them were under eight. And I said to them, look, kids, um, I've been struggling with this work thing. I, I really, really love you. I also love my work. Okay? These are both values. And when you need me, I will always be there. But someday you will grow up and you will be gone, but I will still be here. And I want to know who I am and I want to be who I am. And then I said to them, I am m going to spend my whole life helping you be you. Will you help me be me at the same time? And they totally bought in. They were like, oh, we get it, mom, that makes sense. We definitely want you to. And so I started talking to my, about my values with my kids and because I had a language for them. And this was before the values bridge became. Before, um, I made it in my lab and it became, you know, something that other people could take. But I was doing the values conversation long before and it totally changed everything. I mean, I was able to talk to my kids and I wasn't, I was a single mother at that time. Later I remarried with my husband Jack, who I mentioned earlier, and he bought right in. He just loved all the values conversation because it allowed you to not say, you know, to, not to accuse people or blame people, but just to explain it in terms of just values that are in different places on a continuum. So you immediately start making changes. I had a woman who went through our, uh, we have a three day intensive where you do the whole becoming you process, uh, in three days. And she was a very famous broadcast journalism, a journalist. And she had a big fancy career. Everyone knew her and she felt something was wrong. And you thought, I remember thinking myself, what could be wrong in her life? She is like loved and famous and well to do. And something was aching in her. And she took the values bridge and she looked at her top values and she thought, I'm not doing any of these things. I'm not doing any of these things. Guess what she is now. She's a hospice nurse. Okay. She was, she gave it, she just said, bye, bye. I have these top three values. Her top three values, number one was cosmos, which is, uh, faith. And she felt like, I'm not living a life where I am every day and in every way doing something that in her terms was holy. Her second value was non city, helping other people in intimate and personal ways. And her third value was belonging, which is the value of community. And she's like, none of those things are happening when every single day when I put on my face and start doing broadcasting. And she went back to school, she got the degree you need, and now she's full time hospice nurse. I mean, so, uh, changes large and small can occur. But she had to have, she had to have language for it, she had to have words for it. She had to identify the source of the ache and the source of the egg where she wasn't living her values.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, talk about a powerful mission to then go into hospice and like really find your purpose. So it feels like this is the perfect tool for moms who are feeling a little lost in motherhood and just trying to redefine themselves in these very tricky, sticky seasons of life. So, uh, a lot of our listeners are in that mode. I know I'm in that mode. I'm kind of coming out of the thick of it. My kids are six and, and three and a half. But to kind of back up, I love to ask you, like, when you think back, I know that you're a mom of four, your kids are grown up at this point. And so what was sort of the hardest part for you when you think back to becoming a mom? I know you've been a very ambitious, career oriented person. What did you grapple with the most during that time?

Speaker C: Oh, everything. It was brutal. I had four kids. You Kidding me. And I had them in five years. I had four kids in five years. And then my husband left me. My first husband. Bye. And so I was alone and I was working full time. I loved my job. I managed 65 people in $100 million business. I did not want to stop doing it. I have value of high value of achievement, and I love work. Work is a. Work for work's sake, is a joy for me. These are my values, and I don't want any. I'm not. I'm not. I'm a values agnostic. I don't care if you have high achievement or low achievement or high work. I don't care. But I care that I'm able to express my own values. And. And I would say all of it was brutally hard. I mean, the day you've got a huge presentation, your kid gets strapped, you know? You know, you don't know when your kids are going to go off the rails. You don't know when they're going to need you. You don't know when work's going to need you. And so every single, uh, day was a negotiation around my values. And some days I got it right, and some days I got it wrong. But I got it more right than wrong, I have to say, because the jury's in. The kids are in their 30s. We're completely best friends. I talk to my kids a hundred times a day. I'm a grandmother. And that has rewired my brain completely because I'm obsessed with my family. Grandchildren, they're. I mean, I don't. I didn't understand the kids could be so fun. But, um, you know, it's everything they say about grandparents. Like, they're fun because, like, literally you're tired and they've got to take a bath, and you say, bye. Later. I did this. I remember my granddaughter was born. My son said to me, can you take a night shift? And I said, are you effing kidding me? I did night shifts for 10 years. I gave it the. I gave it the office. I'm done with that. I mean, I had four kids. I'm not doing any more night shifts by. And I said, I'm happy to help you pay for a night nurse, okay? Like, let me write you the check, sweetheart. But I'm not doing that anymore. The grandchildren are fantastic. The other day I went, uh, to visit my granddaughter, and I brought her her first pair of gold Go Go boots. And I didn't give a damn what anyone thought. I walked into the house, I gave her her Go, go. Boots we put on. You know, girls just want to have fun, and we dance for an hour. That's about as good as it gets. Look, your question was, you know, what was hard about it? Everything was hard about it. And I'm in awe of mothers who, like, are walking through the woods and are smiling as they got a baby in the backpack, and they're holding hands with the other, and it's all beautiful. And then they a. Like a, Like a lunch, and they are smiling, and then they have Instagram posts of it. And I was like, well, that was not my experience. My experience was like, I was on the verge of tears for 10 years. But I loved it, and I love them, and I'm. I. I do it again, but it was a bloody mess.

Speaker A: No, but I love how real you are about it. But secondary to that, I love that you called out that one of your key values is work centrism. And there's no shame or guilt in that. You're like, this is me, right? I think that's really empowering. And it's, you know, something we should maybe talk about a little bit more and maybe lose the. The guilt story around.

Speaker C: I'm like, a total values agnostic. If you're not hurting anybody, if you're not hurting anybody, your values are your values. And I don't want to apologize for it. I don't want to be called a workaholic. I don't use that word. A holic is disease. I don't have a disease. I love work. I'm, you know, everybody I know who has my level of achievement also loves work. I love creating becoming you labs. I love creating work for other people. I love giving these 20 people who are on my team wonderful careers that they like to come to work every day. But I have many friends and relatives who have lower work centrism. And what I say is power to you. I'm not going to impose mine on you, and don't impose yours on mine. And let's just like, m. One of my closest friends has, like, I have work centrism up at number three, and she has it at number 16. Okay? And guess what? We love each other. We joke about it. We. I say, look, your low work centrism means you'll be golfing on Wednesday. On Wednesday, I'm in a meeting. Okay. You know, uh, we'll see you. I'll see you on Saturday. It's a beautiful way to talk to each other. So it's. If you're not hurting anyone, live your Values.

Speaker A: Yeah. Let me ask you this.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Kind of last question on that is, like, when your kids were younger, if you sort of reflect back, was there a point in motherhood while juggling your career that you sort of felt like things kind of clicked, that maybe you had come back to yourself or you morphed into the new version you were really happy with?

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I hear you. And you know when it was? It was after that conversation I mentioned earlier, when I finally was able to articulate to my kids, this is what I'm struggling with. Okay, I'm going to help you with your struggles. Help me with mine. We're a team. It's not you versus me. It's not my time versus your time. We're a family, and we need to figure out a sustainable way to live for all of us. It was after that conversation. It was the bravest thing I ever did in many ways, up until that point was really brave to say to my kids, some days, I love work so much, I'd rather be at work than be with you. And that I used to say them like. But I had to prove to them how much I loved them. So they knew, look, they knew I was coming from a place of extreme love. And when they needed me, you know, I, I, I was up for a huge promotion and I needed to present to the board of my company. And it was a Saturday retreat for my company. Prevents present to the board again. I'm facing a promotion. Big deal. And it fell on the same day that my son was going for his junior black belt. And I went into my boss's office and I said, I, uh, cannot be there. Somebody else will have to present to the board. And it was a bake off. It was me against two other people. And so I knew I was like basically handing the promotion to one of those people. I had to be there. That child had recently gone through a divorce right when I, my first husband and I had gotten a divorce. He was a pretty fragile kid. Hard to imagine m now as he towers over me, but he was a pretty fragile kid at that moment in his life. He needed me there. I couldn't send my mom, I couldn't send the babysitter. I had to be there. And I took the hit. And so, you know, every single day you're making those decisions. And I think after, uh, and he, he understood that I was there, and he understood what I gave up. Now, one of the interesting endings to this story is that about six weeks later, I did get that promotion. I won it and when they gave it to me, they said, we loved how clear you were about what you were doing. And we thought, whoa, Susie has really found the balance that she needs. And she did what she needed to do. And she spoke very clearly about it. And she had no kind guilting on it. She was not vacillating. She understood. And they were like, we loved that about you. And I got the promotion because of the. But I believe me, in the moment when I did it, I cried in my car because I thought, well, there goes the promotion. But I cannot miss this event.

Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. It feels like motherhood is just this one huge trade off. And I don't know, I mean, what an example of that. It's like you had to make that decision. Absolutely. So for the mothers that are just feeling a little bit lost in motherhood in general and the sticky season, they're in the thick of it. Do you have any simple advice for them?

Speaker C: It gets better. I wish someone had said that to me. I wish someone had said, it gets so freaking good. Like, there's this moment, like I'm on the phone with my daughters and this started when they were in their early 20s and they kind of just had a little. This, uh, stuff started. And with my sons, where I would just be laughing in a way, like we were friends. Like, I send my kids, like, these hysterical memes. They're like my besties. And I. If I had had that vision that there's this moment where it's carefree and they take care of you. I mean, when Jack got sick, my kids all came and lived at home with me and they abided me and they carried me. I wish I had known that there was this moment where this great equalizing thing happens and you become absolutely best friends. And so it's worth the. It's worth the multitasking, screaming, crying drama that you feel every single day. I, uh, just. Just simply to get the kids out of the house can be like. I mean, I had four, so maybe I had like, extra layers of it. I look at my kids with two, though, and I think, wow, it's really hard also just with two. So, uh, so my simple advice is take solace in the true fact that it's worth it. Uh, that it really gets better. And it gets. Not only does it get better, but it gets divine.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's such great perspective to keep in mind. So something that kind of came up for me when I was reading Becoming you was just a very beautiful, beautiful quote. You actually shared it when you were sharing an excerpt around sending your son off to college, which that point in your book definitely had me tearing up, borderline crying. And if that's like a signal of what that's going to look like for me, then I am in huge trouble. But, uh, the quote was simple. You said that life is building bridges for each other and for ourselves. I loved this so much. Can you elaborate a little bit on why this is such a big theme? And also just for women, sort of lifting each other up in motherhood and all the things.

Speaker C: Yeah. You always say the title of my instrument, that we use, the values bridge, is very intentional. The bridge is a very important image to me. Look, the story that you talk about is still. I'm still not over it. It happened. My son graduated from Stanford in 2011. That's how long ago this was. Um, and the day we dropped him off, look, he had been the perfect kid. He had been a scholar and an athlete, but he'd just been a very dutiful kid. He'd been a great boy. Um, and so I dropped him off at Stanford. And they kept on telling the parents it was going to be time to leave soon. Finally, they said, parents, everybody into the courtyard of his dorm. And we went in, and we were all standing there, and, you know, you know you're going to leave and you're going to say goodbye, and it's a very big moment. And then suddenly this, like, choir comes in, this group of kids, and in the silence with the breezes blowing under these beautiful trees, they sang an acapella version of Bridge Over Troubled Water. And I mean, the sobbing and I mean, it was. Look, if, uh, when you have been a bridge over troubled water for your kid, if you're dropping them off at college, you've crossed a few rivers together, you know, at every single turn, it's not, you know, getting your kid out the door is an epic achievement. And I remember just laying my head on his chest. He's a big kid. And I was laying my head on his chest and I was just crying, and I could feel his tears in my hair. That's how hard he was crying. And I realized then that with our love and our respect and our language, we had built. Built a bridge to each other that it has stood so. It is withstood so much since then. I mean, he's now a dad of two. He's. He's built an amazing career. And, um, I've gone through the loss of my own husband in the building of my company. He named my company I just. He was the first person I described what I wanted to do. I wanted to build this company called Becoming youg Labs. And I didn't have the name for it. I was telling him what. What it was, and he said, mom, I think that your process is called Becoming you. He did that. We have built this, and I think that when we have a language, we can build these bridges to each other. We've got to lessen the acrimony in this culture. We've got to lower the heat in our families and cross the bridge of each other halfway. That's why I love the image of it so much. And it started with that song in the courtyard. It was kind of a cruel trick to play on the parents. We were already completely all up besides ourselves. And then to have these kids come in and sing Bridge Over Troubled Water with, like, voices of Angels. I, like, literally got into my car afterwards and was just crying, crying. And I looked over, and on both sides of me, mothers were in cars, crying. But we had left them in the middle of the bridge for them to go build their lives.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You have me crying over here again.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker C: It was a cruel, cruel trick to play on us. Yeah.

Speaker A: But I think it's just, again, fresh perspective getting us all. And I'm saying this to myself to just sort of zoom out a little bit and realize that, like. Like, we're on the same path of motherhood and all these tricky seasons, and that, like, ultimately, it will lead us to the day when we're dropping them off at college.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, I want you to know something. They never go away. They go to college, but they call you day and night. And. Yeah. I want to just say one thing about something you just said, which is so true, which is that we're all on the same path of motherhood. And I want to say that sometimes moms, and a lot today, they judge each other. Other. They're just judging each other all over the place. And it's like, damn, I couldn't have done it without my mommy friends. But I remember being judged. I remember being judged for working. I remember being judged for ways I talked to my kids. I remember being judged because I missed too much M. And it's like, why must we judge each other? It happens. And I think it's kind of exacerbated by social media. We, like, look at each other's Instagrams, and it's like, dang, it's hard enough. Let us just not do that. Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm really glad you said that. I think, you know, we do it in social media, you know, and I show up online. It's, it's part of my job and I know it's part of yours now too. And it needs to be right because you have a platform and people need to hear your methodologies and everything that you're sharing. But it feels like we're walking on eggshells sometimes and it can be really tough. So. Yeah, I mean, just to highlight that that's not easy.

Speaker C: No, it's not. And I, look, I, I have to stop myself from judging. Like I, right now, like one thing I judge all the time is gentle parenting, which I, I, I say I use Sicilian parenting. I was a, I, I mean I had four kids on my own. And you know, when I remember one time, that son that I just described, we were in the supermarket, I had three kids younger than him. And he started to have a fit because I wouldn't buy Lucky Charms. And he laid down on the ground in the supermarket and he started to cry because I wouldn't buy Lucky Charms. And I looked at him and I said, pitch it baby, pitch it. And I understand from my daughter in law that that is not gentle parenting. And I was like, you know, I couldn't do that. I couldn't negotiate with my children about what they were to go to bed. I was like, everybody, potentially your pajamas on, you know those pair right there. And I didn't make them all different food. I mean again, part uh, of it was I just, I didn't have the capacity. But also I uh, it was a different era. And so I, but I try not to judge anybody who's doing it a different way because it worked out for me. But maybe I got lucky. So even I feel start to, I start to hear myself say, you know, what are you negotiating with that little bear cub for? And then I think let that mother negotiate with her bear cub. I mean that's not how I did. But maybe, maybe she's onto something.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, I feel that. And it's like reminding ourselves to stay in our own lanes. So shifting gears a little bit into motivation and the mental load and the mental health and all the things that we deal with on a day to day premise. I'm curious for you, you have so much going on, you have so many balls in the air. How are you staying motivated? Are there routines that you stick to daily rituals like what, what goes on for you?

Speaker C: I think I'm highly internally motivated. I love what I'm doing and I See the impact on the world. I'm motivated because one of my values is radius, which is helping and changing the world. And so I feel very motivated by that. I have daily routines, I think, like I have been an avid exerciser since I was young and I, I work out. It really, really fills my cup. And I, I don't know, I'm motivated by my people and I, I'm a professor, so look, I see young people every day trying to build their lives. That just fills me with so much energy. But I'm kind of a high energy gal. It's like I, I do pray every day and I kind of try to live in that moment where I'm just expressing gratitude and that kind of like we are just so lucky. The other day a friend said to me, oh Susie, I'm so glad X happened for you. You deserve it. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't go there. I do not deserve anything. Everything is a big, big gift. And I feel so incredibly lucky. And so that's kind of where I try to keep my head. I mean it's not like I don't have, have days where I feel exhausted. M. That happens. But then you, you know, you go to bed early and um, so I do that and I get myself back together again.

Speaker A: Yeah, that was my next question was like the days you're, you know, waking up on the other side of the bed so you give yourself a little grace, extra rest, that kind of thing.

Speaker C: Yeah, I take a lot. Like this weekend. I needed to regroup this weekend. It had been a really intense week and I have three dogs and I, I just gave them an extra long walk in Central Park. I just said, you know, I was about to come back home and I thought, wait, why not go another hour? They'd love it.

Speaker A: It.

Speaker C: And you need to stop working, Susie. You need to, you need to just be present, take in the day. And so I, I did that. And so. But it's a discipline. Go down that, go down that dark road, which is easy to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I feel like I, I can't let you leave without asking you about the 10-10-10 decision making system that you are very known for. Endorsed by Oprah, taught at Harvard, not a big deal. Share a little bit about just like what that is and how we can kind of use that in our day to day.

Speaker C: I taught it last night. In fact, I taught it at NYU Stern. I teach management, as I said, and we do two weeks on managerial decision making and I teach 11 different decision making systems. And I thought a few years ago, you know what, I'm going to teach mine. It's taught all around the world. So. 10.10.10. I first wrote about it, a book about it, in 2009. It is now a scientifically validated decision making system. A new book about it is coming out next year. We're doing a whole new version of that book with Harper Collins. 10-10-10 is a decision making system that allows you to make decisions in the context of time and value values. So to use it, you have to know your values. So it's, it's made a lot easier if you've done the values bridge and you know your values. But what asks you to do is every time you have a decision to look at all of your options. Okay, I could do X, Y or Z. And then it asks you to do some data crunching, which is what are the upsides and the downsides of each one of Those options in 10 minutes, the immediate future, 10 months, the foreseeable future, and 10 years, the life I want to create. That's a big data, you know, you've got to, you can do. You write it down on a piece of paper. We have a form people fill out, and you just do it. And then you look at all of that data and you've got to be quite exhaustive. And this can take anywhere from five minutes. I've seen people take a whole day to do it, but you can do it very quickly, depending on the size of the decision. And then you compare it to your values, and usually the decision presents itself very swiftly. You know, you just. I saw, uh, last night when my students, I gave them 10 minutes to make a 10-10-10 decision on something going on in their life. And I could literally see them circling the box of the right decision, because it pops when you know your values. But you do have to know your values to do this, you, to use this technique. But millions of people do use it. And, and I'm, I'm glad to be known for it. People will stop me on the street and say, I raised my family with 10, 10, 10. Or you saved my. I mean, I literally received letters from people who said, you saved my life with 10, 10, 10. And it would be a case where they made a medical decision based on it. And it was, it ended up well. So it's a great honor to have, uh, have originated this idea, which literally came out of a time in my life where I was failing at motherhood and work. And I thought one of the problems is I'm making my decisions poorly and so I started to use this technique. So I'm grateful, I'm grateful that it came to me. It was just a eureka.

Speaker A: I love that. So how do you take care of your mental health on a day to day, outside of getting outside with your dogs, is there anything else that you reach for?

Speaker C: I think that it's uh, it's a combination of exercise, hanging with my dogs, being with people who ah, uplift me, prayer in the morning. And I'm kind of a total square. Like I don't really drink that much and I eat really well and I, you know, I'm on the boards of organizations that I really care about. I like quite a bore, I have to say, but those old fashioned things about and kind of work out. I don't have any hacks. It's just about like the really basic stuff of taking care of yourself and uh, being around people who love you and affirm you and then loving, loving them and affirming them back. You know, I have this stick them on my computer that says say thank you. And every day I sit and say, who have I not thanked today? Because the act of thanking them makes them feel good, but you feel better. And so, so I try to do that. I, I don't want to sound Pollyanna ish. I'm like, I am a radically imperfect person and I can be so cringe and I, I often annoy my children. My daughter just texted me the other day to stop posting so many pictures of my dogs and blah, blah, blah. I mean I, I screw up all the time. I do. But um, I'm, I'm out here trying.

Speaker A: No, but I love that. And, and when you just said that, I'm so cringe. I love the way that you show up on social media and you're just, it just feels like you really. And I think that you've said that. I think it was a podcast interview with Cameron Rogers that you feel like you came into your most authentic self after age 60. That like sounded off for me. I'm like, damn, talk about just empowering. And uh, again, I love everything that you're kind of sharing because I think it's, it's coming off in a really helpful and empowering way for, for everybody.

Speaker C: Thank you for letting me even have this conversation with you. I think what you're doing is amazing. I'm in awe of you because you definitely have it more together than I did.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh. So Susie, as a last couple of questions for You. What is it that lights a fire in you? What is it that keeps you moving?

Speaker C: Uh, my work. I love what I'm doing. I love that it's helping people. I love the people that I get to meet. I meet new people constantly. My students. And, uh, look, my grandchildren are really doing it for me. I talk to them. They're in Maine, but I see them a lot, and I speak to them every day. And I have a song that I sing every time I see them, um, which is called it's the best, best part of the day. The best part of the day. The best part of the day is you, you, you, you. And I have to say, I was not a very maternal mother. I wasn't. Family centrism is number seven for me. I organize my life around my work. But, um, this ability to enter these young people's lives and be a great grandmother, that's pretty good stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that so much. Okay, where can everybody find and follow and keep up with you? But also, where can they take the values bridges? Is that where somebody should start? Like, give us all the details?

Speaker C: Oh, you're great to ask. Look, you can take the values bridge@thevaluesbridge.com There's a free version that will tell you, I think, your top two values. The other, it's $30. I. You know, I wish that when engineers are free, this test will be free, but that day is not here. But it's. I think it's worth it. And, uh, lots of people love it, so that's a place to start. There's susiewelch.com I have a free newsletter. I do free webinars. You can find out about them in the newsletter. You take the whole becoming you methodology if you want. We do it every few months in New York City. You can find all about those workshops and intensives on my website and then on social media. I'm on Instagram, mainly at Susie Welch. I have a LinkedIn presence also, but Instagram's my place.

Speaker A: Yeah, perfect.

Speaker C: Oh, and I also have a podcast becoming you on the Odyssey Network. So, please. It's weekly, and I've, um, been doing it for a few years, and I'd love you to join us on that, too.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's phenomenal. Thank you, Susie, so much. This was such a great conversation. You're such a wealth of knowledge. We appreciate you and thank you again.

Speaker C: My great pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this episode. If there is someone you think this conversation would resonate with. Please share it with a friend. Tag us on Instagram at the Big Move Podcast and at mroberts M. Um. Subscribe, follow and leave a review and connect with us. We love to hear from you and we we want to chat soon.

Speaker A: Mhm.