Salesforce's Nitin Mangtani on how AI is evolving on-site search

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Greg Kilstrom: Hi, I'm Greg Kilstrom, host of the

Greg Kilstrom: Agile brand, and here's a question for you. What if the most common point of

Greg Kilstrom: failure in your digital customer experience, the

Greg Kilstrom: no results found page, could become your

Greg Kilstrom: greatest opportunity for conversion and discovery. Agility requires not just adopting new technologies,

Greg Kilstrom: but fundamentally rethinking core customer interactions like Search that have remained fairly static for far too long.

Greg Kilstrom: It demands a shift from rigid rules to responsive intelligent systems that learn from and adapt to customer intent in real time. Today we're going to talk about the evolution of on site search. For years it's been a, ah, functional yet often frustrating utility for customers.

Greg Kilstrom: But with advancements in AI, it's transforming

Greg Kilstrom: from a simple keyword matching tool into a conversational discovery engine that can anticipate intent and drive a more intelligent customer experience. Welcome to season eight of the Agile Brand Podcast. This season we're going all in on Expert Mode MarTech AI and customer experience, talking with the people and platforms behind the brands you know and love. Again, I'm your host Greg Kilstrom and I help Fortune 1000 companies make sense of MarTech, AI and marketing ops. Hit, subscribe or follow to make sure

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Greg Kilstrom: And make sure you check out our sponsor TechSystems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world adoption. For more information go to techsystems.com now let's dive in

Greg Kilstrom: to help me discuss this topic. I'd like to welcome Nitin Mengtani, GM

Greg Kilstrom: and EVP of Agent Force Commerce at Salesforce. Nitin, welcome to the show.

Nitin Mangtani: Thanks Craig. Good, uh, good talking to you. Happy Friday to you and our listeners.

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look at it. Looking forward to talking about this. This is definitely a topic top of mind for myself and I know many others. Before we dive in though, why don't you give a little background on yourself and your role at Salesforce.

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, I joined Salesforce two years ago with the acquisition of Predict Spring. I was founder and CEO of Predict Spring, which was a modern point of sale company. So Craig, over the weekend if you want to go to a Crate and Barrel store or an Under Armour store or a HOKA store, uh, or a love sex store, they all are powered by what was PredictSpring, POS and now Salesforce, uh, point of sale. And um, then six months in this role. So I was trying to make sure the POS product is well integrated into Salesforce. It was first foray for Salesforce to get into real world Salesforce obviously being the leader in the digital world. Our founders Mark and Parker invented SaaS computing and then now being leading with Agent Force and data cloud. And so this was like a great kind um, of you know, extension of Salesforce to bring Salesforce in real world. And then Mark asked me six months into this role, why don't I run the entire commerce for Salesforce. And that's obviously a huge honor when Mark calls you and uh, you know, offers you this role. So obviously I, I took on this role with all the excitement and um, and then the passion for it and, and yeah, here we are.

Greg Kilstrom: Nice, nice.

Greg Kilstrom: Love it. Well, yeah, let's, let's dive in here

Greg Kilstrom: and we're going to talk about a few things today. But want to, want to start as we always do, uh, from the strategic standpoint here. And I want to start uh, with what I teed up in the intro. Just this, this strategic shift from search to discovery. And so the concept of on site search has been around for decades. Certainly those listening have been working with it and around it and so on and so forth for years now. What's the fundamental business problem with traditional keyword based search that prompted this strategic shift towards what you would call Agentic AI.

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, it follows the consumer behavior. If you, you know, see what's happening in the consumer web, uh, whether it's the Google's AI mode, obviously Gemini and ChatGPT and Claude. So we all are kind of moving away from the behavior that we hear. Like can I just type in two keywords to. Well I can have a full conversation now.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Nitin Mangtani: And I can express myself much more, uh, in a more detailed way versus trying to just limit my expression, you know, jeans or sneakers. I can now say, well, I'm looking for dressier sneakers that go along with my dark jeans. And that's a much more, you know, expressive, um, need. But that's how humans behave, right? I mean, I mean the clicks are new to human behavior. Languages and conversations are not new to human behavior. So humans have been, you know, conversing for thousands of years and uh, it's in fact computers were like a little bit of a, you know, um, anonymity in that behavior for the last 50 years or so. And so now we are back to how we should all have the most natural way to interact. And same applies to if you own a website or a mobile app, right. So if you're Michael Kors or Ralph Lauren or uh, Birkenstock or um, Hugo Boss or suitsupply, you all need a interface which is much more robust than a simple keyword based interface. And so then I started looking around and you know, these decisions are complex. It's always a build versus buy question, right? Do we build this in house? We had amazing talent. And then I also looked outside and a lot of times you're like, okay, if I could reach that step, step B in six months versus three years, well that's a, uh, you know, material kind of, you know, speed and innovation. And so we spoke to a few companies in this space and uh, I was lucky enough to meet the similar team and the founders, Vivek and John, and just phenomenal, phenomenal talent, uh, with their background from MIT and Stanford and uh, we're just lucky uh, to cross paths. And here we are, they are part of the Salesforce family.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Narrator: Ah, great.

Greg Kilstrom: So in you describing that, I mean there seems to be, uh, companies have been working with the, let's call it the old way, the keyword based way of doing things for years. And certainly there's infrastructure set up uh, for that and everything. So this seems like less of an, let's call it incremental improvement, uh, and more about really fundamentally changing the way that a brand interacts with their customers. Instead of just accepting keywords typed in and matching, this is conversational. It's a bigger change than just, ah, hey, it's a step change improvement. How does something like this change, um, a brand's overall customer experience and the way that they treat things? Even like first party data?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, I mean if you think about three different things, I guess one is, yeah, it is a step function. Jump is a similar order of magnitude. As we went from search to ChatGPT.

Greg Kilstrom: Right, right.

Nitin Mangtani: We all saw that order of magnitude jump. Right. So it's not even like 2x, it's 10x jump. And so it's clearly that order of magnitude jump when it comes to E commerce experience. And I feel really proud that our commerce cloud customers now have access to this technology. Right. So it's a huge jump. Um, um, in the last 20 years. Right. Like, I mean, keep. Keyword search has been around for 20 years, um, in E commerce world. Um, so from keyword search, which is 20 years to now, this big jump now, how does it impact the consumer behavior or the brand experience? Um, again, my perspective is the best E commerce experience is you're in a physical store. Equivalent to that would be you're in a physical store. You are with an associate. He or she knows you very well. Like, you're like, oh, Greg, welcome back. Uh, what are you looking for? Right? And you're like, oh, I'm looking for a blazer. And the associate is not pointing you to, uh, a wall with 200 blazers or a section with 200 blazers. They are bringing you three blazers. Right. That will look great on you because they know you, they know your taste, they know your past purchases. They're like, yeah, Greg likes these colors. And I know what Greg bought in the past and I know what the new arrivals are for summer this year. So I'm going to bring the three, which I think will look great on drag. Right. And you can kind of continue the conversation. Right. The problem with keyword search was it was fire and forget.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Nitin Mangtani: There was no follow on versus. In real life, there's never fire and forget. You don't restart the conversation all over again. You are in a conversation. Right? Like, think about that shopping session. You are in the store for an hour and you continue to converse. You're like, yeah, actually I like that blazer, by the way. Do you have anything in blue? I want to try that. Do you have something a little bit more casual? Right. So you're kind of constantly giving the additional prompts to the associate as you are defining what you want. And so you want to mimic that same behavior in the digital world where you are, the conversation continues. It's not just you type in a query blazers and then you know, the session ends. The session doesn't end, it just continues. And so that's really the delightful aspect for a brand experience and the consumer experience because now it's 24, 7, it's accessible to you. Right. On your mobile phone. Um, and the last thing is, yeah, conversion rates. Right. Uh, can you improve the conversion rates both when you're selling? Right. Because that's the ultimate metric conversion rate, average order value, but also can you reduce the returns? M. The biggest problem in apparel at least is the returns are 18% these days. Almost one in five dollars are returned. And that's bad for many reasons. It's bad for environment, um, it's bad for your bottom and top line both. And so if you can give better, more relevant answers and more accurate answers, which are products, in this case, the chances of you returning a product will be also reduced because you are kind of hitting the mark on what the customer wants. So it's a threefold kind of answer to your question on how big of a shift is this?

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah, yeah, well, and I think maybe to go back to your point about the fire and forget part of this when talking about making this operational and implementing it to what you were saying about this is instead of. This is a set, uh, or a series of searches and keyword matches and things like that, that it's a conversation. Right. So what does that mean when marketers and commerce leaders are used to essentially, uh, having a lot of manual rules that, that kind of guide how things go, you know, what is that? How does that world change when. When it actually comes to implementing this, when things seem a lot more fluid in a, in a conversational atmosphere.

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah. I always thought merchandising rules in a lot of ways were almost like a patchwork to limitation of a good search engine. Doesn't mean you don't need it. Merchandising is the most complex art, like being a buyer. I just appreciate the taste of a buyer. A good merchandiser, a good buyer knows what they want to buy. The curation is a very hard science, whether it's digital world or real world. And then how do you put that assortment both in the physical and the real world? Those are really hard sciences. I have tremendous respect. But you don't want like 100 or thousand or 5,000 rules. That means the search is not doing their job. If you have to write A rule for every single use case. It's just not scalable. That means the search is broken, it's fundamentally broken. And unfortunately that's with the state of the art in the last 20 years. It's just been a lot of tuning a lot of this thing micro optimization. And this is where when we looked at simulate they kind of took the broader knowledge base they had about everything that's going on in the web and LLMs and genai. Right. Which is the semantics are much more sophisticated than simply the synonym. So the concept of having synonyms and merchandising or boost rules and what the IR folks will call query rewrite. You're rewriting a query as types in. Even when I was at Google, this is 2006, literally 20 years ago, I had built an E commerce search engine, Google Commerce Search and I'd launched it, uh, and then you can read about it. And so that tech stack was available even 20 years ago. But what's new is really leveraging the power of LLMs. And I'll give you a concrete example. So let's say you are bevmo or um, uh, what's the liquor store or chain near you, Greg?

Greg Kilstrom: Uh, uh, well here in Virginia it's state owned stuff. So the abc.

Nitin Mangtani: But yeah, okay, abc, yeah. So actually I didn't knew Virginia has state owned. I know Canada, we have some customers uh, which is a lot of state owned uh, thing. But yeah. So you know, if you are a, you know a liquor store or you sell wine, right. And you have your website and a mobile app, right. M and let's say you type in Taylor Swift wine, what would you get? Zero search results, right? Because there's no Taylor Swift branded wine out there in the market. So you're just going to get zero results. Now if you really take a step back and you understand what's going on in the social media and everything, you would see that Taylor Swift have posted some Instagram posts where she's drinking white wine, right. And people found out what that wine is. They're like oh, that looks like Sauron and Planck and is it from New Zealand? And they did all this research and kind of zeroed down to actually that particular brand. Wow. Right. So there's been a lot of chatter around like what kind of wine that Taylor Swift likes. Based on her Instagram post, we are able to take that knowledge and apply this very advanced semantics instead of giving zero search results because you're like well I don't carry Taylor Swift wine because there's no such Thing as you say. Oh, I understand what you mean. Uh, oh, you mean you're looking for a white wine or you like soyuan and blank, or you like the growers from New Zealand. Let me show you some search results that will come closest to you. So that level of advanced semantics coupled with this full conversation, it's not fire and forget, you can then further refine, say like, oh, can you show me wines in the hundred to two hundred dollar range? Can I, can I get a little bit more dry side? So that kind of, you know, conversation in the same interface without leaving it allows you to uh, shopping kind of, you know, the whole funnel, which, which we haven't seen uh, so far because as I said, you just keep typing in two keywords on that search box.

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Greg Kilstrom: Let's maybe take it uh, one step further. And so you know, certainly you've already mentioned the acquisition of Simulate by Salesforce. How does taking that into uh, a Salesforce ecosystem, what does that enable? And how does that enable, uh, maybe broader um, scenarios and ah, what does it enable?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, I mean as I said, we kind of went through and we Go through this for other acquisitions too. We acquired some phenomenal companies like the history of Salesforce, including my own company, PredictSpring. Right. So commerce is very important to uh, Salesforce. Uh, Mark absolutely loves retail. He's very tuned in into all the products, not just Commerce, obviously. Um, and he's in his founder mode. It's still same energy, so it's kind of fun to think about it. So from Salesforce perspective, this was like build versus buy decision. We came to the conclusion that buy will help us accelerate our roadmap m by three years. And that's a great value to our joint customers that we can offer it morning than in 2030. And that's kind of. And if you look at many of the e commerce platforms out there, and I respect my competition tremendously and competition is beautiful because it brings the best out of you. They don't have this level of sophistication. It's a very advanced next generation search that we are able to offer to our customers. And the feedback has been extremely positive across the board. Everybody has spoke to all the CIOs. They either knew Simulate, they knew John and Vivek and everybody's like, amazing move. I'm glad you guys, uh, acquired Simulate.

Greg Kilstrom: Nice, uh, nice. So let's talk about. I know you touched on this a little bit earlier, but I want to talk about how we prove ROI on this. Certainly from a, from m a customer experience perspective, it's definitely an improvement when you move beyond that simpler keyword search and into something conversational. But the standard metrics are still going to apply in an E commerce setting. But what else becomes important or what else becomes possible to measure that should be focused on in this kind of conversational, uh, experience?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, I mean you're right. Like, you know, conversion rate is still conversion rate. Right. You're driving traffic to your website and you want conversions to be high. AOV matters. Uh, you know, the units, the overall average, the order value matters tremendously. Right. So, um, you can have a high conversion but you'd also prefer that if the order value was instead of 100 bucks, $250. Right. So you kind of lift um, in this thing so those metrics don't go away. Search click rates, you know, um, like long clicks versus short clicks, uh, engagement time, um, response to like, you know, in like how many prompts you get the answer so you're not in the prompt doom loop also. Right. So you want to also make sure the technology is smart enough that it's. There's one thing to have conversation then the other thing is to have too much of conversation. So you want to make sure the technology is giving you the most highly relevant um, search results. The example I gave you, it's you know, like instead of pointing you to the entire rack of 300 blazers, you want to bring the three that will most likely, you know, appeal to you. Uh, returns. I mentioned to you we don't talk about returns a lot. I mean 20%, 18 to 20% returns is crazy. If 20 years ago when we started on this journey or 25 years ago if somebody told us that we are going to see 20% return rate, we would have not even started on E Commerce. The board would have shut down the E commerce projects. They're like, wait a second on slide number three, did you say that the returns are going to be 20%?

Greg Kilstrom: You're right, yeah.

Nitin Mangtani: So I think it's important. And this is where our omnichannel also plays in, right? Like part of having point of sale is you can now buy online and return in store. And the beauty of returning in store is we are able to analyze the data. Why is because we can talk to a customer and saying what happened? The size was not right. Um, and more importantly we are like, oh it's just a size issue, then let me give you the different size that might fit in you or if you didn't like the color, I actually have a different color. So going back to the store or taking the customer back to the store allows you to do an exchange instead of a straight return. Um, so the foundationals of unified commerce don't go away. Like connecting online and offline, which is also something we've been talking about for a long time. Uh, those foundations don't go away. But more importantly we are also bringing similar to store associates. So if you are in a store and you're looking for something and you don't have it because the stores these days are not 300,000 square feet, they are like three uh, thousand square feet brand owned stores. So we are seeing a transformation. And so you can't by design you cannot carry every single assortment and every single uh, product line that you have. And so endless aisle becomes important because then you can see what's everything in your warehouse, not just in the store or stores nearby. So the iPad that we have and the devices tablets we have, um, to the associates, they can also use similar interface to look for products on behalf of the customer. In the real physical world, which is also new, which most people haven't talked about how do you bring AI in this physical stores but not trying to take away the human. The human is important. It's making human's life easy.

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah, yeah. Well and I mean I think that's the, in all the conversations about E commerce, I um, think it sometimes overshadows the fact that just how important brick and mortar um, stores still are as well and so, and also just how consumers have different behaviors when they go in a store versus when they shop online. And yet they want a seamless experience and you know, across the board wherever they are on whatever device or in person or whatever. So being able to tie those things seamlessly, uh, you know it also, I mean I would imagine augmenting how an in store um, employee is able to help a customer, that's going to save them time and you know, if, if there's commission, greater commission, all that kind of stuff too. So it seems like a win, win across the board.

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean and then bringing this whole agentic experiences in real world, uh, that's definitely net new because we only think about consumer but here associate ah plays an equal role. So there's, I mean we are making some of the biggest moves I would say in commerce here at Salesforce in the last five years from the acquisition of Predict Spring to simulate we launched Storefront Next, which is our new front end experience that complements the agentic experience. This is by far, we are calling it the June release that is coming up uh, in uh, less than two weeks. Um, it's our biggest release in the last five years.

Greg Kilstrom: Wow. Wow. Exciting.

Greg Kilstrom: That's great.

Greg Kilstrom: Well, um, and I want to talk a little bit more about some of the future stuff and so um, and maybe this touches on what you just mentioned but uh, you're piloting um, product catalog integration with external AI channels like ChatGPT and Gemini. Uh, certainly there's a lot of talk about um, brand discovery and visibility and all those things in agentic commerce. What does this mean for the future of discovery and how do you see kind of the line blurring between owned properties and some of these third party conversational platforms?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, I mean um, commerce will happen, what I call it on owned and operated properties, uh, agent ecommerce, the properties you own, your mobile web, your app, your website, your stores. But it will also happen on agentic channels like Gemini. OpenAI Definitely the referral traffic is going to come from OpenAI and Gemini. We are already seeing it right in our stats and I had a review yesterday with my team and we are looking at how much Traffic, this referral traffic is coming from OpenAI and Gemini. So what we have done is we have signed a partnership with both OpenAI and Gemini, and we are also, uh, part of the tech council for UCP protocol to enable commerce on Gemini and other avenues. So on our side, we are basically leading both sides of the movie. Agentic on owned and operated properties and Agentic on what I call it syndicated channels such as OpenAI in general.

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah,

Greg Kilstrom: great, great.

Greg Kilstrom: And so then looking a few years out, um, five years maybe, uh, too far out to see, what would you say is the, the ultimate vision for agentic AI and commerce? You know, and again, keeping in mind that there's still going to be some of the more, let's say, traditional methods, but you know what? Will, will every customer interaction be mediated by, mediated by an AI agent? Or you know, how, what's, what's the. What, what's the vision here?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, what's your favorite, uh, awards ceremony? Like music awards, Golden Globe, Oscars. Like which red carpet. You kind of picture yourself being there.

Greg Kilstrom: Oh, um, I don't know, maybe Oscars.

Nitin Mangtani: Okay, so Greg at Oscars. Well, wouldn't it be great if between the discovery experience, the optimization and the cost reduction in supply chain and the curation, what if we can dress up everybody like you're on a red carpet at Oscars every weekend at a cost that's feasible, that's affordable, and you can just customize it by just having this whole conversation and you get the stress delivered or a blazer or an entire outfit delivered to you by Thursday evening. That would be my dream. In five years, that's where we would know AI really accomplished its job.

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah, yeah, Love that, Love that. Well, uh, Nitin, thanks so much for joining today. Um, couple last questions as we wrap up here. First one is, if we were having this interview one year from today, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, so I think the core tenants don't go away, right? So for example, we started talking about mobile commerce in 2007 when iPhone launched. Mobile commerce is still important. It doesn't mean. So it's been 19 years since iPhone launch. It doesn't mean mobile commerce is no longer relevant. Right. We talk about search. Search has been there for 25, 30 years, right. It's still. So I think the core tenants don't go away right now. The devices will evolve, Right? So maybe glasses will have a bigger prominence. Right. And you might be able to, you know, interact in real world with your glasses and do shopping like that. You're like, you know, you're at your friend's place and you're like, oh, I really like this coffee table. Right. Or you're in a real world at a restaurant. You're like, oh, I love this cutlery. And your glasses will be able to recognize it and you can just talk to it. And you're like, yeah, let's buy it. So I think the core tenants in a year won't change. It's going to be the same core tenants, but there's going to be. Adoption is going to go up. A lot of these things we are product is launching. The adoption takes whatever, you know, sometimes two weeks, sometimes few weeks. So adoption will be more mainstream. Like every brand that you interact with today will have an agentic experience instead of just the early adopters. So it's going to go from early adopters to mainstream. Second is the technology is going to get much more sophisticated. Maybe the Oscar one won't be ready in a year that I'm asking for five years or maybe three years. Because the cost is also important. Can the AI really reduce the cost barriers and delivery barriers? Um, yeah. So I think it'll be in those kind of dimensions. The core tenants of Unified Commerce Mobility don't go away. Adoption, uh, is going to go from early adopters to mainstream and then you're going to see a lot more advancements to the core technology behind this stuff. Love it.

Greg Kilstrom: Love it.

Greg Kilstrom: Well, and last question for you. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

Nitin Mangtani: Yeah, there's kind of two parts to that puzzle, Craig. One is I'm a shopper before I'm a technologist. I literally, every time I meet a customer and the folks, those who know me, I would shop something whether I'm in their store or on my mobile device. I would literally go through an entire buying experience, discovery and buying, because that kind of helps me understand the consumer mindset and what's going on. Because if you start from a consumer experience and then bring the technology, it's the right sequencing versus the other way around. Second is I'm a huge believer in iteration. Um, the perfection of a vision is a fallacy. Everybody should have a strong vision. Don't get me wrong. But this thing of like, oh, I'm going to just write a PRD for next 18 months is the most flawed way of thinking.

Speaker F: Totally.

Nitin Mangtani: It's like, how do you iterate every two weeks? So you should have the North Star. No doubt. You should know your North Star. You should know your strategy, you should know your vision. But iterating your vision and really fine tuning it and optimizing it every two weeks or every week or every day. That's really the mantra to building amazing consumer oriented products.

Greg Kilstrom: Yeah, I love that. Well again I'd like to thank Nitin Mangtani GM and EVP of AgentForest Commerce at Salesforce for joining the show. You can learn more about Nitin and

Greg Kilstrom: Salesforce by following the links in the show notes. This episode is brought to you by Tech Systems. They're leaders in full stack tech services, talent solutions and helping companies put it all in action. You can learn more@, uh techsystems.com that's teksystems.com and thanks again for listening to

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