307: Top 25 Lessons of The 20% Podcast (Best of Series)

Speaker A: Hey, everyone.

Speaker B: Welcome back. Welcome to an all new episode of the 20% podcast. This is the show where we bring you tips and tricks from industry professionals across all industries that you can implement in your current job Today. I'm your host, Tyler Mekkis, and welcome to the top 25 episode. In this week's episode, I'm going to be breaking down my favorite lessons from the top 25 most listened episodes of the 20% podcast all time. Now, over the past few weeks, I've been sharing some of the top 20 episodes of the show as well, but I wanted to compile all of the lessons into one full episode here as well. But first we need to start by counting down episodes number 25 through 21. So let's start at number 25, episode 106, figure eights with Landon Meyer. Some of the biggest skills that you learned from managing the restaurant that you're currently leveraging in your sales life today.

Speaker C: Yeah, we used to call this thing called, uh, figure eights. And as a manager, you know, I have people that are in different positions in the restaurant making sure that the restaurant is, you know, being run efficiently, just like a B2B SaaS company. Right. So I have my greeter at the front door that needs to greet folks as they come in and guide them to their, you know, you also call them a host. Um, you know, you have an expediter who's running the food that's in the window, making sure it's getting, getting out to the, the patrons. You have your servers and, you know, you have your kitchen staff. And how can you help? Um, know where the fire needs to be put out before someone's coming to you. And so what I would do is called figure eights. I would do it every 15 minutes. I would just, you know, walk around the restaurant and have my eyes peeled. And I've learned working in the restaurant that I can understand if someone's upset without them saying anything. I can read their body language. And this does really well for me on Zoom calls. This does really well for me in interviewing. Um, I can, I can read the room very well and I can get in front of a problem before it presents itself.

Speaker D: Stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is fantastic. And diving into the figure eights because I love that. I can't imagine, uh, I feel like not enough companies are actually doing those virtual figure eights in their own businesses as well. How could a leader take that same figure 8 concept and do it in a remote environment? Because it's not always easy to be checking in with all of your employees or you can't possibly oversee every single area. How do you think you know, number one, do you what, what's your experience on that in the B2B world? You think people need to do that better? And ultimately, how could people take actionable steps in order to, to make sure that they're doing those figure eights in their, in their B2B company as well?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can't actually like tell people what they should do, but I could tell you how I would do it if I was in a leadership role. And how I do it now is every, every point of contact with the customer. I would, I would take, take a weekly one hour block. I would go on gong. I would listen to what it sounds like when someone comes in for an inbound demo request. What does that sdr, how are they running that meeting? How are they setting that up? How are they doing discovery? Are they finding actual pain? Are they understanding who this person is in a Persona? Are they, you know, an end user? Are they a decision maker? Are they a champion? Like, how are we going to get this set up? Um, and what was the experience like if it was an end user? I would go to my website, I would book a demo, see how long it would take until someone gets to me. I would listen to a CSM onboarding call and see if that's the kind of experience that I want my company delivering to my, my customers. Um, I would go look at my tickets and see if the SLAs are being met and if there's anything I can do to help support. I mean you could just like, you know, pick, pick an area of the company and, and go to where the customer meets your employee and see if that's the experience you want to deliver.

Speaker B: I love that. And as you're saying this, I'm literally just thinking in my head of like, okay, the BDR is that host who's welcoming them when they're coming in the door. And then from there you have this, the CS person who's making sure that they're that runner who's making sure that the food is still going good. Or maybe the AE is that person as well and then the engineer is the cook in the background to make sure that, um, that you're giving a product that the CSM and all of those other teams could, could share as well. Have you ever. All right, next, coming in at number 24, we have episode 113, you embracing nervousness with Mike Wander. How do you embrace the nervousness?

Speaker E: Um, Um, I go back to this all the time, but it's just. Take a step back. Right. Where were you before? Well, I wasn't happy. I was falling out of love with running. Cause I was doing it competitively, got hurt, and just my mindset changed. Uh, uh, I didn't know what I wanted to actually do. I wasn't in a great situation. I wanted to go make something of myself. And honestly, I was doing everything for anybody besides me. And so I, I made that decision. And when I was really nervous and I was sitting on the bus, I had to literally close my eyes, take a step back, and think. The future for me is a blank canvas. I can either go into this situation and I can try my damnest, or I can make nothing of this. I can be super scared and I can go back to what I was doing before. I'm already here. I might as well take the next step. Got off the bus.

Speaker B: Okay, next up, number 23. Episode 87. Your vibe attracts your tribe with Arielle Lee.

Speaker F: I say all the time, I'm like, your vibe attracts your tribe. The way that you put yourself out there, the way that you show up, there's a certain magnetism that happens. And so if you show up consistently, the right people will come into your life. And just keeping very cognizant of the fact that the people you surround yourselves with are going to have the most impact on where you go from here. You know, if the people you're surrounding yourselves with are always negative and complaining and thinking about how things can't be done and how bad the world is, then that's probably how you're going to feel about things. But if the people that you surround yourself with are overwhelmingly positive and sort of focus on lifting each other up, that is a game changer.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I have a ton of mentors as well, who I rely on or have that personal board of directors, I guess. Um, you know, you have to run yourself like you're running your own business. Your life is a business.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You need to make sure that you have the time management, you need to make sure you're having good communication, building great relationships with people. Um, and obviously LinkedIn is a fantastic way to, to do that. So coming in at number 22 from episode number 98, Daniel School of Business with my friend Daniel Ryan.

Speaker G: Um, and so I dove into. And you're going to love this. I called it Daniel School of Business. Um, and so essentially, it was like three prongs. It was, um, work experience, um, after, you know, I'M super interested in business and all that. So I was like, following like, Gary Vee and following Tim Ferriss and following like, Warren Buffett and Tony Robbins and all these, like, personal help gurus and, you know, people that are thought leaders in, in the sort of space. Um, and there's a really common theme of everyone that was like, just do it. Like, whether it was Seth Godin or Gary Vee, who, like, two completely opposite personalities, everyone's advice was kind of like, you learn the most by just diving in and doing it. Um, you know, don't like. And especially when it comes to business. I really liked business and, like, that sort of thing. So I was gonna go to school, like, hopefully go get like an MBA or something. Um, but a lot of the feedback and a lot of, you know, this advice that I was seeing out in the interwebs was like, just dive in. Like, you'll learn more starting a business than you ever will go into school for it. So I was like, all right, guess I'll. I'll do that. So that. So, um, my first and foremost was in work experience of, like, going out and doing it. So I literally set aside four years where I concentrated on how can I get the most amount of experience while getting paid for it. Um, I had a wife, had a child, had school bills from when she was in school. So I spent a ton of time, um, working, so my 40 hours a week. Um, and I jumped around from customer success. Uh, I did sales, I did quality control. I worked across tons of different industries. I worked in management. I worked, um, yeah, all up and down, whether it was bartending and waiting tables to building solar farms and anything in between. Um, and if there was ever an opportunity, um, I put my hand up. So, um, I joined like, safety committees and I joined, you know, like, all, like, whatever I could, if, if I could do something and learn from it. I did it, um, marketing stuff too. So, um, I did that for four years and tried to, like, grow my skills that way while getting paid for it. I then took all the money that I would have spent on college and I invested it into myself. So going on webinars, going, um, you know, buying books, buying resources, going to seminars, all that sort of stuff. I forked out, I think total. I probably forked out between 16 and $20,000 over that time. Um, I did boot camp stuff like that. Um, and then the third one was starting a business, so I started a window cleaning. I'm pretty sure you're going to ask about that, uh, later on um, and so that was sort of how I pieced it all together. Um, and I ran that for these five years. I stopped at the start of 2020 when Covid happened and when I wanted to, when I decided to concentrate on tech sales was when I put that project on hold. I didn't put on hold. I sold it to um, M. My then like managed like my then project manager of the window cleaning business. So it's now has any. And I am in full time sales. So that's sort of my origin story as of work was Daniel School of Business.

Speaker B: And coming in at number 21 from episode 50 of the 20% podcast, how sales is an underrated profession with Scott

Speaker H: Lease or where, you know, 40, 50%

Speaker I: of people, when they graduate college, the first job they get is sales.

Speaker H: So you're talking about half, uh, the people almost who come out of any four year university going into sales and probably 99% of them have had no formal training or education on selling whatsoever. That doesn't make any sense. No, and unfortunately that's why the field is full of, you know, folks not necessarily doing it. Right, right.

Speaker B: Uh, so uneducation. So it sounds like being, being uneducated in the profession is what's giving sales a bad name.

Speaker H: So you know, one, one could then, um, one could then venture to say like if we educated people how to do it properly, that would slowly eradicate the like poor selling tactics. People would be doing it, you know, properly and then, then how, how the profession of sales is viewed would start to uh, start to change a little bit.

Speaker B: You know, that's the goal, man. That is what that to the point of that is really what I'm trying to get to.

Speaker H: Uh, and you know, there's some, there are people, you know, doing this, right? I mean, I know, you know, John Barrows, a friend of mine, you know, he co authored a book with his daughter, a children's book, like kind of trying to normalize and say, hey, sales is like a worthy profession for kids. It's for kids. You know, I wasn't taught that as a kid at all. Right. And my kids now, you know, they know that I'm in sales. They ask me all the time like, hey, did you sell anything today? Right? Like they're like kind of into it and you know, I think they're getting exposure that um, you know, helps them regardless of what they do with their profession. But that stigma is still there. You know, like my mom, God bless her, she still would say, well, you would have made a great lawyer Scott. Like, I'm, like, I would make a great lawyer. Like, I'm pretty. I'm doing pretty good at what I'm doing right now. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker I: But it's still.

Speaker H: It's still out there, you know?

Speaker B: Now, today, I'm going to be bringing you my best lessons from episodes 16 through 20. Let's start with number 20. Only expose yourself to the things you have space for with Lindsay Bacardo.

Speaker J: I think compassion is a behavior, it's not a feeling. And so I try to only expose myself to information that I know I have space, resources to do something about. So it's kind of. If I find myself in the endless Instagram scroll and I'm, um, I am reading about, uh, horrific things that are happening, I will pause and ask myself, do I want or can I do something about this? And sometimes I can. I made donations. Everybody donated somehow to what's happening in Ukraine, whether it was to. To the kids or, you know, something.

Speaker K: Right?

Speaker J: And I'd make my donations, and then I'd say, what else can I really do? I can send love there energetically. I can kind of consider what it would be like to be in their position and how awful it would be. And then I do need to continue to move forward. And I think there's this tension of how can I act? This is the same thing on a very less intense level. I'm obsessed with dogs. I have two rescue dogs right now at my feet under my desk. And it's like I could spend all day watching dog rescue videos and feeling so bad for dogs that are abandoned or, you know, horrible things happen to them. And I just decided one day, after seeing a really bad video of a dog being mistreated, I thought, I can't do this anymore. I'll just go and emcee m dog rescue events. I'll go MC fundraising events. I will rescue dogs on my own. I will donate. That's how I'm actually closing that loop of I feel pain, I feel empathy, compassion. I'm going to act on it. And now I've done what I can do, and I can keep moving forward. I think we feel tension because we see all these horrible things, and it puts us in a victim, helpless state because we know I don't have $80 billion. I can't send choppers to the Ukraine. And then you get stuck in this, um, almost like a learned helplessness when you're watching all of this horrific stuff. So I just ask myself, what can I do and if I can't do anything. I give myself permission to not take in information like that.

Speaker B: And this, this is essential, Lindsey. And I think not even, obviously we were using some of the, you know, obviously we use the dog example in Ukraine. But even not even on that magnitude, if we just zoom way back into where we are on a day to day basis, the same thing goes. I feel like if any time that we face a tough situation, I really think asking that same question of can I actually do something about this? Is essential. And it's something that I've been trying to do as well, because, you know, you hear all these corny lines of like, you know, can control the controllables and all of this stuff, but really what it comes down to is like, can I fix this? If I can't fix this, then I need to continue to move on because this is out of my control. But if I can do something about it, whether it's donate a couple dollars or, uh, MCD events, right, you're doing something that was in your control. I feel like a lot of people get so caught up in that and they just continue to feel that negative loop and then other things add on to that extra stresses of the day. Then you find yourself, um, in a bad spot.

Speaker J: That's exactly it. You nailed it.

Speaker B: Next, coming in at 19, we have proud of the struggle in his Life from episode 80 with Colin Mitchell.

Speaker L: There was a bit, there was a time period where I probably really was like, I wish none of this stuff ever happened to me. My dad spent most of his time in prison, you know, had, you know, still to this day, I don't speak to him like my real father, um, has trouble with addiction. You name it. I saw lots of things that no kid at any age should ever see. Um, I seen my mom get shot. Like, I could go on and on and on about all these things, right? And there was a big, there was a good timeframe where it was like, I, you know, was, um, mad I had to deal with all that stuff, right? And then eventually I realized, like, it was actually a superpower. Like, all those things that I had to deal with built me to who I am today. And I can actually say, like, I'm proud of it. Like, I'm proud that I had to go through those things because in business, like in a sales role, there's not

Speaker B: a lot that freaks me out.

Speaker L: I mean, things that stress some people out. I'm like, it's way better than where I came from. I don't even care if the worst possible scenario Happens. It's still better than what I had before.

Speaker B: Coming in at number 18. Episode number five, great ideas unexecuted or simply bad ideas. This comes back from episode five with Brian Bobeck.

Speaker A: Great ideas unexecuted, in my opinion are bad ideas.

Speaker B: They're nothing. It's nothing.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker A: And that once again it just sounds, it sounds uh, kind of cliche. But it does take a lot of effort to actually do. It's easy to strategize. It's easy to. In my opinion, it's easy to come up with a plan. It's kind of exciting to come up with a plan. It's a lot of fun to come up with a plan. What's not exciting is doing and not doing it well.

Speaker B: Failure.

Speaker A: But what is exciting to me. And that's where I think, um, I always like to work with and hire people where they have to figure it out type of attitude. I don't know, I don't know how to do this. That's fine. But I'm willing to figure it out and ah, it'll be a lot of fun to go through that process, right?

Speaker M: Almost.

Speaker A: The process is almost more enjoyable than the end. It's somewhat anticlimactic.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And for me, when you figure out the solution, right, because the solution, that's great but the fun wasn't trying to figure it out.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So that's what, you know, that's what I do for other. That's where I kind of get the enthusiasm and working with other people is that every, every scenario is completely different. There is no um, follow these steps and then we get to the ideal scenario for this person. There is no such thing.

Speaker B: Coming in at number 17 from episode 72, managing the course with John Morris.

Speaker K: Manage the course, right. So that 340 yard par four, that's got a bunker right in front of the green. Everything in my body says you can drive it over that. You can one hop it, you can roll it through that trap and you can get it on the green and then you'll be on and you know, one or two you'll be, you'll be putting for birdie. And every fiber of me wants to do that. It's the wrong move. The right move is for me to hit to a distance. That is my best club. My best club happens to be my pitching wedge from 135, 145. So I'd be better served on that hole to hit a 200 yard club. So maybe a four, uh, iron, five iron. Put it down the middle and manage the course effectively. So I would say golf has taught me that your gut instincts are fantastic, and they're wonderful, and you can pull them out when you need to. When I need to, I can pull that out. But sometimes you have to just do the right thing and make the right play, even if it isn't fancy and it's not going to get people in the force of them excited, and nobody's going to go, oh, my gosh, great shot. Sometimes that's just the right move.

Speaker B: And finally, with number 16 coming in at episode number 20, how tough times Are an opportunity, with my friend Larry Long Jr.

Speaker M: But really, the number one lesson I learned is great ideas are great, but you got to turn them into action. And then the second learning I learned is if you don't have cash in the bank, you don't have a business. Cash is king, uh, in business. And you better understand your numbers. What we're going through now, it's an opportunity. And that experience was an opportunity, even though it sucked. I mean, when you have a failed business, it is really tough. When you're. You don't have any money, it's like, wow, mom and dad, can you help a brother out? I wouldn't wish that upon anybody, but it just taught me that, hey, I'm resilient. And I already knew that. I mean, I played baseball or baseball played me. And in baseball, if you're a 70% failure, you're a success. You're going to the hall of Fame, uh, and not the hall of Shame, like the Neuterberg said. But, um, really, Covid has presented an opportunity, and it's all about perspective.

Speaker B: Now.

Speaker M: Is it bad? For sure, perspective, the loss of life, uh, just the impact that it's had

Speaker B: on all of our lives.

Speaker M: Whether you're 100, whether you're 2, it's had an impact on you, but it's what you do with it. And when the going gets tough, the tough get moving. They start doing things. So for me, I launched a business in the pandemic. I still have my day job. We're still helping and empowering and enabling student athletes. So I just encourage people to make the choice. It's your choice. When you wake up, do you want to say, woe is me, and just shut it down and wave the white flag? Or do you want to say, hey, I'm going to make the most of a pretty terrible situation? Because I was just talking with my doctor this morning. I said, see, if it wasn't the pandemic. And COVID 19. It would have been something. It's not like in 2019 it was all sunshine and rainbows. It's not like in 2021. I don't have my crystal ball, but yeah, we've got a vaccine, knock on wood. That's great. But we're still going to have tough times. Um, so what you going to do about it? That's my question. What are you going to do? Not what are you going to think, not what are you going to dream, but what are you going to do about it to ensure that you're taking care of yourself, your responsibility, your family, but also your fellow brothers and sisters.

Speaker B: Now I'm back today to bring you the best lessons from episodes 11 to 15. Let's start off with number 15, investing 101 with Tim Chubb. If you were starting to teach an investment 101 class, what would be some of the main items that you would focus on?

Speaker N: Ooh, great question. Um, there's so many different ways I could take that. I mean it'd probably be an hour or two worth of, uh, talking time, but I think, um, it's a different answer for someone who wants to get into the field versus someone who I'm trying to teach from a client perspective. There's the financial planning aspect of things, there's the investment management aspect of things, which I think can sometimes be blended together. Um, but I think the most important thing, like I mentioned before, is staying disciplined and unemotional. Identifying, uh, what your investment thesis or philosophy is is very important. Um, continuing to refine that over time, being radically open minded, um, like one of my favorite books likes to talk about and understand that some of your best ideas can come from different places that, uh, you wouldn't expect. Um, and reflect.

Speaker G: Um,

Speaker N: I think m many investors, um, don't reflect on their investments often enough, especially after the investment is over. You can buy something, you can sell something, and you sort of go along your own merry way. And sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad. But what made it good, what made it bad, I think is very important. And having a reflection process I think is probably something that they don't spend much time talking about in the books. But I'd say for an investing one on one class is extremely important.

Speaker B: Next, we're going back to episode number 75, the start of Gratitude with Kevin Carpenter.

Speaker O: The gratitude was born out of, you know, difficult times and suffering as a young person where I realized that in an epiphany and in a moment that when I shift the focus of where My thoughts are. It takes with it my emotions. Right. And that having been said, it gave me the sudden realization that I'm actually in control of my own happiness and my own thoughts. And from there it just allowed me to realize that whenever I get a little bit lost in where I want to be, my own breath and a focus on gratitude, which is what I have versus what I don't have, brings me back to where I want to be. So for me, it's a great stepping stone. It's a great entryway for everybody to realize how they can take control of their own happiness and understand it's not a circumstantial event. It's something you build and you control yourself.

Speaker B: Coming in at number 13, we have episode 76, finding a job that fits your personality with Joel Lalji.

Speaker P: Yeah, I think if I was looking at, from a candidate's point of view of how to, how to look at things, I think there's, you know, there's a lot of different things you need to look at. I think size of company, like we've discussed is huge. You know, like, do I want to work at uh, you know, the under a thousand person company? Do I want to work at the 5,000 plus company? Do I want to work at like the 20,000 plus, you know, the big, big, you know, the big big companies, or do I want to work at a company that, you know, has 15 people? You know, I think that's a great, I think that's a great starting point. And I'd say, you know, even just to go back second, like, the more specific that you can be with this stuff, the easier it is to find something. Like, ambiguity in a job search does not help. It's like ambiguity in a sales, sales. Like you've got to know who you want in a reach, otherwise you're spinning your wheels for nothing. Same thing on a job search. So think size of company. Then just looking at like, what's the overall like mission of the company, right? Like, are they, are they, are they doing something that you're genuinely passionate about? Um, and you know, you gotta ask yourself, like, what types of things am I passionate about? Now? I think a lot of people genuinely aren't passionate about really anything. Uh, and that's okay too, you know, it's okay if you're not. So I think looking at the mission, what they're about, um, and then I think you gotta look at like the leadership too, and like the leadership of the company and figuring out like, okay, is the leadership, you know, is diversity Something that I'm really passionate about. If so, like, is the leadership, you know, diverse, like, you know, and so looking at like the leadership of a company and then I look at things like, you know, simple things like what's the turnover like? And obviously like it's hard to go in an interview and go, whoa, what's your turnover like? But it's easy enough on LinkedIn to just take a look and just, you know, click on a company and that's. It will show you like how many people have left who's joined and just look at their backgrounds, look where they come from. Um, so I think, you know, that's my approach, like size of the company, the mission, and then starting to just look at like general turnover and those types of things. Um, and then, and then outside of that, I think, you know, maybe, maybe looking at like different industries that you're just excited about as well. Uh, but I guess that would be kind of in line with the mission. But like industry definitely, definitely matters. But I think the more of those that you can answer, the easier it is. And for example, like when I'm dealing with people like, what I don't want to hear as a recruiter is that I'm open to anything because like open to anything is just, it doesn't, it's stupid. Like are you open to anything? You're open to a garbage driver position? No. So don't say that. Like say no. This is what I'm looking for.

Speaker B: Coming in at number 12, we have episode 92, how sellers need to be Mini Marketers with Jason Bay. Obviously you took that, you were in sales and then you jumped over to marketing and you know, had some back and forth there. Do you, why do you, do you see it as important for sales reps to be mini marketers? And what uh, are you, what's your thoughts there?

Speaker Q: Yeah, definitely. That's another great question. I think that the modern seller has to, has to have a couple skill sets actually. I think project management is a really underrated skill set, at least for mid market and enterprise sellers. You know, being able to, you know, manage like the sales process and the deadlines and the following up. I mean the mutual action plans, all that kind of stuff. That's, that's project management, management, you know, um, on the marketing side of things, there's a few things I think that like how do you write, how can you write compelling copy? Not just in cold outreach, but it's everything. I see people that don't really do a lot of outbound and they Write terrible emails throughout the sales process. You know, so I think how can I leverage multimedia and copywriting skills to have more effective messaging to get more of what I want? I mean it's everything from the follow up email after that first call to the, you know, the emails leading up to that call, sending the videos as part of the proposal. I mean just all that stuff. These are marketing skills, this is content creation. That's what those skills are. And then there's the other part of it, which we talked about the very beginning, is personal branding. I mean I think any elite sales professional should be seriously invested in their personal brand. That doesn't mean you need to put out sales content. That means you need to be known in uh, your industry, whatever you're selling. You need to be someone that puts out some sort of thought provoking content once or twice a week. Could be LinkedIn, Facebook, you could have a podcast, a blog, whatever it is. Like you need to have something where you're putting value back into the world

Speaker I: that you sell to.

Speaker B: And finally, episode number 11 comes from episode 84 of the 20% podcast. And this is the Law of Reciprocity with Bilal Petrali. Question. How does Bilal ask the tough and uncomfortable questions upfront to move deals forward? And it sounds like it could be a tough question to ask the compensation question, which is why I asked this now. But uh, asking tough questions is throughout your life, right? That does, it's not just sales. How do you and uh, overcome some of those tough questions?

Speaker R: Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question. So let me think about that for a bit. The first thing that comes to mind is just, is being blunt. I do think that sellers in general do walk on eggshells when they want to ask difficult questions. And we come up with all these fancy ways to ask something really simple. Who would feel left out if we did this meeting? And it's like nobody's going to feel left out of a sales meeting. So don't, you know, that's like you're trying, you're away overthinking that question. But what I've noticed is that in, in learning basic social psychology, there's something called the law of reciprocity. So if Tyler, if I, if I throw a party and I invite you to it, the next party you throw, you kind of have to invite me. Like that's, you know, that's the niceties. It'd be really weird if you didn't. Cause like, hey, I invited you to mine.

Speaker B: What's going on here, Right?

Speaker S: Right.

Speaker R: That's law of reciprocity. Or, like, if I hold the door open for you, it's just polite to say thank you because I did something for you. You don't need anybody to explain that to you. We're kind of socially conditioned and hardwired, going up to do that sort of stuff. It applies the same way in sales. So if I want to ask you a really hard question, the best thing I can do to prep you for that hard question is to give you something that you're not expecting so that I get reciprocity from you. So, for example, I want to ask you a really hard question about budget. Like, I just want to be really blunt. Just be like, do you have the money to buy this? Now, I can't say that, right, because I'd just be rude if I just said it. So here's what I'm gonna do instead. I'm gonna tell you about our pricing without you having to ask. I'm gonna unexpectedly delight you with something that you weren't expecting and give that as kind of like a social credit that I could use to now ask you a hard question about budget. So I'll say something like, tyler, I know you're being nice and not asking about pricing, but our pricing starts at 5,000 a year. Typically, for companies of your size, it's more between 25 to 35. There's about three factors that go into that pricing that affect that. But just want to pause for a second. Already threw out some numbers. What's your initial impression? You're going to give me your initial impression, and then I'm going to be like, now, if it's all right with you, I got to ask you a question now. Do you have that kind of budget? Uh, is that something you had planned for? And now I get the right to ask you that really blunt question because I gave you something so you're going to learn. And law of reciprocity. You're going to be fair in giving me, uh, an answer because I was fair in giving you information that you wanted.

Speaker B: Now I'm bringing you episodes 6 through 10 and the favorite lessons that I learned from each of those episodes as well. Let's start with number 10 was Morgan Buchanan. With the 3.99 GPA.

Speaker T: She, like, opened the class by saying that she never gave out A's, and I saw that as a challenge. I was like, okay, like, I'm going to get an A and I'm going to do it. And, um, no one can tell me Otherwise, and I'm not going to drop this class, because I don't drop classes. And I have never tried so hard to get an A in A course. Before I went and I met with her, I was like, what am I doing wrong? What can I do better? Basically, the gist was. And you actually talk about this on your podcast episode with Will at, uh, Lavender, that you're taught to write with like 5,000 words.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker T: And so in this business writing class, I was supposed to be very succinct and, you know, use the most out of the words that I was typing. And I just, I guess I just wasn't going to cut it, but I was. I think I got the highest grade in the class, but she still wouldn't give out an A. And so, yeah, now my, my perfect 4.0. I'm a huge perfectionist. Unfortunately, uh, my perfect 4.0 is forever tarnished. But I leave that little Easter egg for people in my LinkedIn profile to see. Uh, who's interested?

Speaker I: No.

Speaker B: And I think it's really important. And I think that, like, just breaking that down, I think it's a great lesson in the fact that you could do every single thing that you, uh, in your ability, and still you. You could have executed perfectly, and that's still subjective to what that person wanted to give out. So I see there's so many different parallels even in just that alone, which is really interesting to think about. But the other thing is that in that degree, in that focus of perfection, and you don't see it right now, you see it now, but not the time, is that you learned that the skills that you learned and what you learned from going above and beyond to try to achieve that perfection is where the learning was. So you're so much better off as a result of that. And you didn't even know it at the time. And now you can look back and thank her for pushing you that hard, because if she didn't tell you that she doesn't give out those A's, then you wouldn't have worked that hard. I mean, you might have, but I think that extra motivation and drive I think is really interesting, and I think it shows a testament to who you are. And the bigger lesson of learning that even through everything that you could do, it's. There's still things outside of your character, and you need to focus on the output that you had versus the outcome. And I think that that's a, uh, perfect way to tie a nice little bow around that portion. Now, let's next Coming in at number nine, we have episode 108, Ian Cognac's second appearance on the 20% podcast. And this is all about knowing your hourly rate. Interesting, too. I just had this conversation earlier, and I know, um, Nick Segowski, who we both know really well, incredible guy. Um, he said if somebody could do something at least 80% to what you're able to do it, outsource it, and get rid of it. And recently we just made an investment. And it's not a crazy investment, but I. It's, uh, one of the best personal ones that we have so far. We just hired some cleaners for our house, and it's mind blowing how efficient it really is because we wouldn't have. We like. I don't love cleaning the house. That's something that doesn't light me up.

Speaker I: Right?

Speaker B: But we're able to charge a hundred, uh, we're charged $150 for three people to come in for three hours worth of work. So if you break that down, it's like, it's like 15 to $20 an hour, man hour for them to clean this house. To me, my time is much more important than you're thinking, right?

Speaker U: You're thinking like, I think so. So this is. I have cleaners, I have handy men, I have landscapers, I have a pool guy. I have, you know, and it's not because I don't know how to do those things. It's because my. I value my time. So for any, any salesperson, here's an interesting exercise you can go through. Okay, you can take, um. My cell phone's in the other. Other room, actually. I'm gonna grab it right here for one second. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, no problem.

Speaker U: You can take your, um. Let's just, let's just, uh, give.

Speaker I: Give.

Speaker U: I mean, if you're comfortable giving me your income or your example, I can do this for you for an exercise. Or we can just take a generic example. But let's, let's take, um. Yeah, if you, if you want to

Speaker B: share, let's just say a, a popular OTE for AES or account managers is 150 grand per year. So let's just go there.

Speaker U: Okay, so let's go 150 year a year. So let's take the 150,000 a year. Okay. And if you make more than that. Great. We can use more than that. Divide that by 48. And then that's, that's the, um, that's the, the weekly, um, dollar amount.

Speaker R: Right.

Speaker U: 48 times. Times, uh, 3,000. 125 is the amount. So you're banning paid $3,125 a week. I say 48 because, you know, people take a few weeks of vacation, there's some sick days of holidays, so it's about. It comes out to about 48 weeks a year. That and then take that number and divide it by the number of hours you're actually working. I'm going to challenge most people. Most people don't work more than 20 hours a week on revenue generating activities. RGAs, most people do busy work, they go down rabbit holes. They're not working efficiently. So if you actually work, look at the number of hours you work. That is related to customer deals and prospecting, right? And that's it. It might be two to four hours a day if you're like most people. So let's just use four hours to be very, very generous. Okay? So divide that 150 by 48 and then buy another 20, which is the number of hours in a week. That's your hourly rate, $156 an hour. Okay? So it could be less, it could be a little more, but you're getting paid $156 an hour. So let's just, you know, take an example of a plumber, okay? I have a faucet that's leaking and I am, um, you know, a, uh, smart guy. And I could figure it out. I'll, um, go on YouTube and I'm going to see how to take apart the, you know, the faucet from the bottom of the sink or whatever. I'm going to go to Home Depot, I'm going to get the parts, I'm going to do it myself. I just spent three hours, okay, between picking up the parts, watching the videos, taking apart the sink, cleaning it, draining it out, putting it back.

Speaker P: Right.

Speaker U: Realistically, I spent three hours. I just spent four or $625. In that example we gave. I could have done a service call for 100 bucks or 150 bucks for a plumber and just been done with it, okay? But instead I was cheap. I didn't value my time. And now because I save 150, I actually cost myself 625. So knowing your hourly rate and the value of your time when you're actually working is one of the most powerful exercise you can do. And second thing is I got three hours back on a Saturday so I can spend time with my wife and kids or go to the beach or go running or go take care of myself instead of fixing a sink. So like Most people don't think this way. This is like how the 1% think, or call it the top 20%. Since we're on this podcast, like, most people think, I can, I can go save that money because I know how to do it. Why would I pay someone to do it? That's stupid. You pay someone because your time is more valuable than, than that. You're not valuing their time. You're going to waste it.

Speaker B: Coming in at number eight is episode 66 with Darren McKee talking about how to show up, uh, authentically.

Speaker K: Yeah.

Speaker I: Matt Kennedy posted something yesterday. Matt's an RVP here at Better Up. And he was like, gone are the days where you take off your home hat and put on your work hat, right? Like, no, we want, we want your. We want your hat and we want you. We hired Tyler, we hired Darren, we hired people for who they are. Um, and I mean, like, we've all worked for organizations that, like, you're just aligned on a workday spreadsheet and it's fine. It's great for some. It's not great for me, um, because we're all unique. And I think that, like, companies that hire people for input over output is where you just have to focus. And so we're able to really just like, dive into our whole people and our whole self to show up authentically.

Speaker B: Number seven is episode one of the 20% podcast featuring my brother in law, Drew Cohen. In this conversation, he talked about finding the angle that motivates you. So you took a passion, something that you really love, and use that as a vehicle to learn your skills.

Speaker I: That's it. That's it. I mean, it's two things, right? It's taking something that you think you can do every day, right? Because, uh, working, not many of us are going to be fortunate enough to work for five years and sell a business, right? Retire and travel the world. That's just not what happens for the large majority of us. We're likely going to work 40, 50 plus years of our life and spend more time at work than we do at home with friends and family. So you better like what you do. Um, and at the very least, you better not be miserable with what you do. And, you know, for me, it was, uh, it was taking something like you said, that I really enjoyed and, you know, ultimately finding that angle that gets you motivated. So for me, the angle was I really liked marketing because I fell into it naturally. I learned the concepts, I taught a lot of what I know to myself, um, based on some of the Great material that was out there. And then obviously you get the on the job experience over the years. Um, but it was combining that with I get to work now with small, medium and enterprise sized companies that uh, ultimately are trying to now build their business for their employees. So for me, I'm looking to help these businesses because these businesses employ tens, twenty, hundreds, thousands of people. Right. So I feel like that's my mission. My mission is to help these businesses grow so that the people who work for these companies. Right. Can continue to prosper. So again, it's, you know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, I'm not creating the next big, um, life saving cure of something. But my angle and what gets me motivated is that I can help businesses continue to grow so that they can continue to hire. Right. That's my little angle in my head is my small, small way of giving back in the grand scheme of things.

Speaker B: And finally, last but not least, this is number six from episode 100 with my wife, Dana Mekis. And this is all talking about a day in the life of being the Meccas chief residence officer. All right, so tell everybody a little bit more about what a day in the life is as the chief Mechus residence officer. And truly, this woman keeps this ship afloat like nothing I've ever seen before. Tell everybody what a day in the life is like.

Speaker V: Um,

Speaker B: and there was a side there as well. If you heard that. I hope the mic picked that up.

Speaker W: Um, it's a lot. You are up at whatever time your kids wake up and um, breastfeeding, um, if you're a breastfeeding mother on top of everything, um, so you're up with the kids and especially with two is a game changer. It's crazy different because if Lacy needs to go down for a nap, but I have Grayson running around, I can't bring her up while he's downstairs. So I have to really manage my time to like, you know, play off of when Tyler will be up for a lunch break or just takes a 15 minute walk break and he uh, could take one of the kids so I can do what I need to do for the other child. So, um, there's a lot of management around the day. Um, you know, and then Tyler comes up after he's done working. We have dinner, getting dinner ready and um, and the night is over. It starts all over again.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I want to give a huge shout out to Dooley as well on this because like the flexibility in any company out there for any for work who has working parents. I think it's really important and it's really appreciated from the employee level to have that flexibility and employee's wife. Yes, yes. And in this nine, like the day of the just typical nine to five, I think is is incredibly tough for those situations. So I want to give a big shout out to Dually for, for being so flexible and for all those other companies that are so flexible now. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode and if you enjoyed the show, I would love if you could rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or share it with a friend. Thank you so much and have a great rest of your day. Now, uh, there's been a common theme over the past episodes and today I wanted to share the top five episodes by listens of the 20% podcast and give you the top lesson that I learned from each guest as well. Now, there are some common themes with all of these guests on the show of the top five, many of which have overcome significant amounts of adversity to get to where they are today. Let's start with number five. He's the co host and co founder of 30 Minutes to Presidents Club, Mr. Nick Zagowski.

Speaker D: Number one is get to the Truth. It's somebody I learned that from Corey Bray from Closed Loop. I'm most interested with my prospects in getting to the truth, sharing the truth, and getting the truth from them. If this isn't a fit right now, that's okay. I want to know that because I want to reallocate my time to talk to other prospects who it might be a fit for. That's number one. Uh, number two, I don't know who I learned this from, but I rely on the magic device that I call the phone way more than email. And, uh, I don't know who I learned it from, so I can't attribute it. But I try to spend as little time as possible in email because the phone is a faster, more effective, more complete way to obtain and communicate information. Somebody emails me, I call them. I'd rather have a conversation. Um, I don't know if I got a number three I would go to. Go back to the wrestling thing, which is discipline is doing what you don't want to do when you don't want to do it. Sometimes you got to be tough.

Speaker B: Getting to the truth. Using the phone and having discipline of doing the things that you don't want to do when you don't want to do them is crucial for everybody to learn. And you could use it no matter what job you do. Okay, let's hear from number four, Eric McKee.

Speaker X: I have been absolutely blown away by how impactful the LinkedIn community has been for SaaS bros. Uh, like, I just did not expect how much the, uh, how much the community would embrace us and be willing to support us. So I think that the best thing that we've done is that commitment to just build in public and be authentic and be transparent and invite people into our wins and losses. There is a true community of people, not just the folks in our talent collective who are looking for jobs. Uh, but there are sales leaders, there are founders, there are, uh, guys like you who want SaaS bros to be successful. Uh, even seeing people post pictures of the hoodie, um, you know, I'm getting tagged on posts where people are working through the playbook every day. Uh, like, I just did not expect the community, the community led growth that we've experienced. And I think that goes back to my time, uh, with uh, the nonprofit where, I mean, I spent all day, every day, um, building relationships and building this movement that could, uh, go beyond just me as an individual.

Speaker B: Yeah, dude. And it's so crazy and you guys are so intentional with everything you're doing with building that brand. And I think that to the point of the nonprofit stuff, personal brands are so great because of the community that you could build as a result of that. People feel bad when you, like when I saw, when you saw that, uh, the couple hundred dollar loss on the sweatshirts, I'm like, oh, man. But you know what, they're going to learn something about that. I'm still rooting for these guys, right? You're just putting that same. The stuff that you're putting out attracts your tribe, right? I think the vibe attracts the tribe or something. If you want to be, uh, I think another guest said that, uh, previously, but I am so bullish on the community aspect of business now. I think it's just shifting and I think that you guys are, it's almost riding the perfect tidal wave of building those relationships, getting the community and getting people bought in. Because then people, for example, if you reached out to me or you reached out to a number of people who are also in that same tribe. You're giving so much to other people that when you. It's like Gary Vee's jab, jab, jab, right hook, right? You're not asking, you're giving, giving, giving, giving. And then when you have an ask, people are saying, yo, Eric, I got you, man. Darren, no problem. How important is that for your business.

Speaker X: That is the business. I mean, that's the reason I left. Gravy. I am betting on the deposits that we've made for three years, uh, and, um, the community to be there when I make the withdrawal. I mean, I think, you know, hopefully we've been, uh, transparent enough to where people understand that SaaS Bros. Isn't like, uh, $100,000 business right now. I mean, we've made some money with the playbook, we've made some money doing coaching, uh, but we have not made money in regards to recruiting, which I think is the real business model moving forward.

Speaker B: Right, I agree.

Speaker X: I left my job, uh, without having proven that out. I mean, we've done it for free for 30 plus people and we have, you know, hiring companies that we've been working with. But it's a different ballgame when you're sending over a contract and saying, hey, I'm not going to send it. I'm not going to send over any more candidates until we get this deal done. Uh, we have not proven out that, but I'm betting on the deposits that we made in the community to really show up for us and sort of help us figure that out.

Speaker B: I love this clip because building in public led to the community that, that Darren and Eric were able to make and that ultimately allowed them to gain more supporters. They were giving all of these deposits over the past couple of years and now they were finally able to withdraw that as well, which I think is really important when you're building brand. I think it's also unbelievable, but that when this clip was over a year ago. So big shout out to Darren and Eric. You guys are doing incredible things at Sass Bros and really excited to continue and support you throughout this entire process as well. All right, let's hear from number three. This is Jen Allen.

Speaker V: Yeah, so it actually started out of necessity. So last year, in the beginning of the year, our team split into hunters and farmers and then key accounts and major accounts. So I was a hunter in our large enterprise space. We called it key. And very quickly in January, I realized the amount of leads I was getting out of marketing was never going to be enough inbound to get me to where I wanted to be. And so I started kind of like becoming more active on LinkedIn and posting and then joining podcasts and stuff like that. And then as I was doing it, it wasn't with the intention to sell or commercialize Challenger. I was just passionately speaking about the things that I had learned as a result of going through Challenger and the mistakes I had made and how it taught me to behave differently. And then all of a sudden, I would start getting these inbounds from very senior senior executives on, um, LinkedIn. And I would say it's really curious, like, why wouldn't they just go to our website and fill out a form? And actually there was one that came in from a gentleman I used to work with years ago when I was an account manager. And I asked him that. I said, why didn't you just go fill out the form? And he said, because I have no idea who's going to be on the other end of that form. I have no idea if it's going to be some super aggressive rep. I know you because I know your perspective. And I see that it aligns with the problems that I face. I see that you get me even though you don't even know I'm looking at you. And so that became really exciting to me because I said, gosh, if I can actually impact for our company, how many senior executives consider Challenger, forget about whether they buy it or not, but, like, how many people even just, like, add it to the consideration set that would be so rewarding above and beyond any individual goal that I could carry. And so by virtue of doing it, what it allowed me to do is to go back to our CEO and I think it was like, October, November, and say, look, I know this job title sounds crazy. I know we don't have this today. I know you're probably like, how is this different from marketing? But by doing this stuff off the side of my desk while I'm m carrying a bag, here are the deals I was able to influence or originate. Now imagine if I could do this as like 75% of my job. And so I just, I used resources online. I looked at guy, um, Kawasaki had a description of, um, evangelism. I look at Dan Steinman's description and I just sort of pieced together and said, look, in year one, I'm not these dudes. I'm not going to have people knocking down my door being like, will you present at my sales kickoff? That's going to take some time. So I thought about, how can I evangelize Challenger inside of Challenger? How can I provide lift on learning and development? And so what I did is instead of asking the CEO to make this big leap and investment into something that like, you know, maybe would work out, maybe wouldn't, I said, why don't we take a kind of staged approach? I'll keep a bag next year but instead of 75% of time selling and 25% of time evangelizing, let's flip that and then we'll see if it works. But let's align on like what measures you want me to affect. So we ended up with things like leads, with affinity for the company, with um, renewal rate of our existing clients by leaning in there and so by structuring that. And by the way, I'm happy to share with any listeners if you're curious about this job. I can do the same thing I did with Tyler and share it.

Speaker B: Yes, go connect, go connect with Jen Allen at Challenger. We'll link, we'll link her link in the show notes as well.

Speaker V: Yes, thank you. But I did that and candidly, you know, I could, I could have seen a lot of CEOs just saying no, um, but I'm really fortunate to work for a company that has a really innovative, open minded leadership team. And she said, what's the worst can happen? Let's do it for a year and see what happens. So it was like part of what I, what I was proud of myself for is I'd never before asked for a job that didn't exist. My only advice, if I could go back to past self would be don't feel so much like you have to do the job before you're paid for it. Do it to make sure you like it. Have some performance measures. But I really should have asked for that job back in July, not in November. And I think that's something, especially for us women in sales, that we tend to feel like we need to prove ourselves before we ask for something. That's the only thing I'd probably change about it.

Speaker B: All right. I consider Jen one of the OGs in the Evangelist movement. She was doing her own marketing while she was at Challenger. After even creating the role, which I think was really incredible. It's no secret why she's crushing it at lavender in her marketing role now. Okay, let's Hear from number two, Mr. Ian Cognac.

Speaker U: Number one piece of advice I would give is, um, instead of measuring the outcomes, um, as a, um, like percentage of quota or your net worth or your W2 or whatever, like those are long term outcomes. Um, what I do and what I've shifted to and it makes me feel great every day, is I measure my output, not my outcomes. Okay. So most people feel bad about themselves because they are not doing what they know they need to be doing. Whether it's in sales prospecting, whether it's in life exercising, whether it's, you know, spending time with those they love. Right. When there is a disconnect between what your ideals are in terms of how you, how and what you're doing and what your actuals are, you are out of alignment is what it's called, uh, being out of alignment. When you are doing every day everything you can in the areas that matter most and you're executing, you have nothing to feel bad about. So I'd say the best piece of advice is, you know, win the day. Win the day. Think about the two or three things that you want to do today that you need to get done. Get those in your calendar and when you do them, you, um, can feel good about yourself knowing you have done all you can. I coach a lot of people, dozens of people, and I see this all the time where people are avoiding the things that they know they need to do. They are procrastinating, um, because they are uncomfortable. Right. Having difficult conversations, uncomfortable. Reaching out to executives, trying to advance deals or going over your champion head. That stuff's uncomfortable.

Speaker B: I reference this quote on a weekly basis. Really trying to focus on the correct outputs is something you should be doing every single day. All right, finally, number one here is Anthony Natoli.

Speaker S: Wasn't doing things for myself. I stopped working out, um, and I got myself into a hole with money and debt and I gained a bunch of weight, um, between you know, the ages of 24 and, and really like 27. Those three years I was like going down a path that was like just digging a hole and digging a hole and digging a hole. And I think for me there was a, um, there was a specific day and time. I remember it like it was yesterday, um, where I was home. We were in a, uh, we were at a mid year for demand base. I was uh, in ae. We did it in New York City. I live in, my parents live in New Jersey. I was home. It was hot, my clothes just didn't fit anymore and I was uncomfortable and so insecure and I just like broke down in my parents kitchen. I was just like, I'm in a lot of trouble with money, I'm super overweight and I just can't live or think like this anymore. And it was real and I wouldn't put that what the thoughts were going on in my head on my worst enemy. Um, and it was a lot for 26 year old to process. Like I'm young, I didn't know like what was going on. I was scared. And so, um, you know, it was a common, it was a Typical. Like, I want to change, but I'm not ready. So, like, I continued down that path a little bit. And then I think, you know, December 2019, um, I really decided to kind of put down my shovel. That was the. It was the December after that summer. So it was a few months after I decided to put down my shovel, stop digging, and really start down a path of going to therapy. Um, starting to manage my money better, try to figure out a plan to get myself out of debt. And then, uh, 2020 comes. Pandemic hits. I truly believe there's obviously a ton of bad that came out of the pandemic, but it allowed me to leave San Francisco, which I think I should have a couple years prior to move back home with my family, which allowed me to save money, which allowed me to be closer to my mom, who's really into fitness and working out, and develop a plan for weight loss. So, um, I was like, you know what? Just like I did with the, you know, getting promoted. Like, I'm going to take the bulls by the horn and control what I can. I'm going to read all the books that I need. I'm going to go to my therapy. I'm going to work out even when I don't feel like it. And I started down this path of thinking and living a different life for myself. And as the days went on and I. I took consistent action ult then the results started to come. I started to save money. I paid off one credit card, then I paid off personal loan, and then, boom, the other credit cards almost paid. And then three months later, I'm down £20. And I don't get there by without building discipline, without having support system around me. And I started to, like, feel my brain rewiring. It was like this new person was born. Because up until that point, for 26 years, my brain perceived things and how I should act and live a completely different way. That wasn't healthy. It was toxic. And so by going down this path of, you know, wanting to better myself and live a better life, I started to discover, like, who Anthony really is as a person. What excites him? Where are his areas of, like, flaws? So, like, I understood, like, hey, I'm actually a really insecure person. And a lot of what I put on is like kind of a mask and a facade. Doing all this stuff to please other people, to try to get validation from others and external sources of happiness and chasing money and chasing materialistic things. I realized, like, that stuff doesn't really ever make you happy. Or fulfill, fulfilled. You always want more. And so, uh, I went down that path these last three years and, um, I lost the weight. I got out of my debt. I moved into my own place in, uh, New York City. I actually live in Hoboken, which is right across the river in New York City. Um, I hit President's Club at Demand Base. I left demand base after 3 and a half years there. I love the people at Demand Base. I love my time at Demandbase. And now I'm at Outreach, where, um, you know, I'm 60 pounds lighter, I'm debt free, building my life in the positive. And if I look back at these three years, the reason why I'm this, you know, I, uh, have these, like, Buddha esque type concepts about life is because, like, man, I've been through some stuff and I want to share my story and give back the lessons that I've learned the hard way. Um, because going through those hard things has allowed me to be grateful for those times and for what I have now. Um, and so now I have awareness of what I don't want my life to be like. I never want to go back there. So it allows me to stay grounded and grateful for what I have now. Um, and I feel that I've gotten myself out of this hole. It's my duty to share the mindset hacks and the mindset shifts that I had to make, um, to get to where I got. Because I think things like paying off debt, losing weight, doing well professionally, but feeling fulfilled are all things that take a lot of work. And so if I can share some of the ways that I got there, then, um, you know, that's really impactful to me.

Speaker B: So Anthony's story is unbelievable. It's all about overcoming adversity and really just controlling what you could control. So discipline building in public, giving more than you receive, doing more than your job title, focusing on your outputs, and controlling what you control are all the major lessons of today's episode. And these are transferable across any skill, any, any place where you're working today. These are all incredible humans. And a final thing that I noticed about all of these guests is that they're willing to go above and beyond for their clients and all are willing to give more than they receive. Really fortunate to be friends with these folks, um, and really excited to have shared these conversations with you all as well. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening to the top five episodes of the 20% podcast and the biggest lessons that I learned. Um, if there are any guests that you'd like to listen or hear from on the show, please don't hesitate to reach out. Send them my way. Um, more than happy to get them on the show. See you guys for now and have a great rest of your day. Thanks, everyone.