What does the new tobacco and vapes law mean for smoking?

Speaker A: It will take time for that to happen, but the fact that we have taken a world leading position on public health policy is something that the UK should be very proud of.

Speaker B: Hi and welcome to that Cancer Conversation, the podcast that brings together the science and the stories behind cancer. I'm Tim from Cancer Research uk. Today we're talking about a different kind of breakthrough, one a long time in the making. 70 years since UK scientists first proved the link between smoking and lung cancer, the UK has become the first large country in the world to start phasing out the legal sale of tobacco. That's thanks to the Tobacco and Vapes Act, a new law designed to create the first smoke free generation by preventing anyone born on or after 1 January 2009 from ever legally being sold tobacco in the country. In this episode I'm talking to Minister for Health and Prevention Sharon Hodgson MP about what the law is, how it will work and how it fits in with the government's ambitious plans for tackling cancer. And then my colleague Dr. Ian Walker joins to help put this all in perspective. Sharon, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you, Tim.

Speaker B: So we in the Cancer Research UK office were all clubbed together to watch as this thaw became official and there was a huge cheer, which doesn't normally happen in a workday, but it just feels like such a monumental moment for health and for preventing cancer. How does it feel for you to have been part of this?

Speaker C: Um, I think we joined in with the chear as well in Parliament when it uh, got royal assent because this is the biggest piece of public health, um, legislation in my lifetime that is gonna make such a huge, huge difference, um, to the health, the survival and to creating the smoke free generation that all um, want to see.

Speaker B: Yeah, that point about, is something we all want to see. I think we've seen support from all across the political spectrum for this really. It was an overwhelming majority in Parliament and um, people across the UK have really come together in support of this law, um, which perhaps is surprising when it's so adds up to a big change. But why do you think it's brought people together in this way?

Speaker C: Because I, I think everyone knows now, um, it's no secret anymore the damage that smoking does, um, to everyone. You know, smokers and passive smokers alike, even um, and even smokers themselves say, you know, that most smokers will say I wish I'd never started. You know, they're not smoking because they love it or out of choice. They're smoking because they're addicted and everyone Knows someone who is smoking and wants to quit and has tried to quit many times. You know, for people who say that, you know, the nanny state's gone mad or whatever, it, it, it's not the, there's no freedom and being addicted to something that could then eventually kill you.

Speaker B: But how will this. Because this law is for future generations really, this, this, um, raising the age of sale. But how will that actually work in practice?

Speaker C: So the, the legislation means that it will be illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone who was born after the 1st of January 2009 and that date. So people during the debates would say it's really complicated. You know, shopkeepers are going to have to, you know, work out it, they're not, they're not going to work, have to work out any other dates. There's only one date they'll ever have to remember and that's 1st of January 2009. So eventually smoking should become a thing of the past. And we still currently have over 5 million smokers and obviously we are going to still work really hard to support all of those smokers who want it to, to quit, to quit. Um, and there's £150 million, um, added into the um, public health grant to enable more work to smoke and cessation services, um, you know, cessation aids such as gum and vapes, talking therapies to help people to be able to quit. And that work is so, so important. So we want to eventually have not just a smoke free generation, but a smoke free uk.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think the way that the Cancer Research UK Smoke Free UK campaign has put it is there's these two pillars which are stopping the start, which is making sure people can't be sold tobacco legally so they don't start, and also starting the stop, helping people who do smoke now to stop. Um, but going back to the um, stopping the start. So one way I've heard this explained in practice is starting next year the age of sale will go up from what is currently 18 to 19 and then the year after that it will be 20 and the year after that 21. And then. So that's how it will work and that's how kind of it will feel.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that, because that date, the 1st of January 2009 doesn't change. Um, so just as people grow up, they will always remain under the.

Speaker C: That's right. They'll always not be eligible to be able to buy cigarettes legally. And so, and I think this is where sort of, you know, people get confused and think, oh, having to work out all the dates. But we've constantly, consistently said during the passage of the, the bill through Parliament, which is now an act, um, that, you know, there's only one date you have to remember. You don't even have to ask people how old they are. The only thing you have to ask for proof of is their date of birth and that's one date that that won't change.

Speaker B: No, I think that's really useful and I guess that helps with enforcing the law. How, how does this work in practice? How do you kind of make sure this is how it works?

Speaker C: So we are going to, um, give £10 million in funding to National Trade and Standards, who will, ah, be able to employ one, um, hundred new apprentices to become new Trade and Standards officers. Um, so they will be able to go out and work with the retailers. Um, and there'll also be, um, new regulation and guidance available to the retail sector. So we want to support them. You know, this is about, um, helping rather than sort of being seen as a, you know, a heavy weight coming down on everyone.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a really helpful way of putting it. I think, as you were saying that I think it's not restricting, it's supporting people to, on both sides of this actually make the change. Um, because, and it's something that a lot of people seem to appreciate because there is so much support for this, this law across the country. And I suppose the other side is this is very different from stopping people who smoke today from being able to buy or being able to be sold tobacco and cigarettes. That's not part of this law.

Speaker C: No. So people who can currently legally buy cigarettes at the moment, today or in the future, um, they will still be able to legally buy cigarettes if they want to. They'll still be on sale behind the shutters exactly as they are now. And also we're going to have a whole load of support around young people and vaping because whilst we can't back vapes because they are still a very useful smoking cessation tool, we definitely want to discourage young people from taking up vaping. Um, and in order to do that we've got to ensure that they're not as attractive to young people. So, so important that the packaging, um, instead of it being, you know, so colourful and bright and attractive to be plain packaging, um, with muted, muted colors. So just to try and to stop the marketing and the targeting of children, which I don't think anyone for a second thought when vapes were first coming in and being used as a smoking cessation, tool that anyone who'd never smoked would ever take up vaping. And then here we are. And I always repeat uh, what the, you know, Chris Whitty, chief medical officer says if you currently smoke vape, but if you don't smoke, don't vape. It should just be simple. Why would anyone who doesn't smoke want to start vaping and um, you know, becoming addicted again to nicotine? Because it's the nicotine that is in the vape which obviously somebody smoking needs, you know, the help with um, you know, dealing with that addiction because that's what it is. Obviously the vaping is better than smoking because all the harmful chemicals and tar etc is not in the vape. But why young person would want to you know, start becoming addicted to something they don't need to at all?

Speaker B: Yeah and I think, I mean there's a link behind some of the things that previously worked for smoking there. So it's really, I think repositions vapes within that sphere as a smoking cessation tool rather than something that's advertised to younger generations to, to cause a different type, cause another type of nicotine addiction. Um, and then going back to smoking, we've talked about the people who aren't covered by this bill and there's two things I wanted to follow up on around that which were um, the fact it seems because the idea is around supporting them to quit. You mentioned the sort of nanny state, uh response to this. The idea that this is government overstepping and restricting people's choices. That seems you know, less relevant when it's not taking someone's choice away. It's um, for something that's already legal to them. But it's um, I suppose preventing addictions starting um, for people who can't, who can't legally buy cigarettes now anyway because they're under, under the age.

Speaker C: Exactly. We don't want anyone who currently isn't eligible to buy cigarettes to ever just by getting older being able to buy them. Which currently is how it, you know, it is, it's age restricted. We want it to become literally a smoke free generation so that it, it becomes something because we can't um, for all the obvious reasons, I don't need to explain, you know, just ban it outright. But this was the way I think everyone who came together, you know, charities like Cancer Research UK and so you know, all this smoke and cessation services sort of came up with the idea that this was a way to do it to sort of, you know, it'll just become obsolete. We want people to live longer and healthier lives. And um, one of the, if I just mentioned sue, one of the people who got in touch with us, Sue Mountain actually from up my neck of the woods, from South Shields, my neighboring constituency. Um, and you know, on the whole addiction side of it, she started smoking age 11, so actually smoking from age 11. Um, and you know she has had so much treatment. She had laryngeal cancer, um, treatment for that in 2019. The cancer returned in 2015 and then again in 2017. But thankfully now she's cancer free. And she told us that as a former smoker, it's not that you love smoking, but you need it because it's an addiction. Phasing out sales of lethal tobacco will stop more children becoming the next generation of people sitting in a hospital terrified and having to tell their family they have cancer. And you know, I just think that so many examples from people such as sue, um, who tell us their story, stories like that and I'm sure Cancer Research UK have had so many similar stories and we, you know, as a government we have to do what we can to make the country better. And in the Department of Health and Social Care we want to make people live healthier lives, have healthier lives, have better outcomes. And so this was just a no brainer if you like, that we had to do something around this. And so, you know, I was in Parliament when we first just brought in the ban on smoking indoors and in you know, some public places. And uh, we, you know everyone said it would be terrible, wouldn't work, you know the, all the nanny state stuff then, um, was talked about. But we saw how it worked. It's transformed um, going out and it's transformed people's health and for the workers who worked in those environments as well. And again this is the next piece of legislation on that step. Um, and you know, so, so proud that we've been able to do this. And um, and yeah, everyone was very, very happy with Royal Ascent for the, for this important piece of legislation.

Speaker B: It really is and was wonderful. But um, what ways are you working as the government to improve treatment for people who um, may not be helped by this law because it's for the future, but who will develop smoking cancers linked to smoking.

Speaker C: So you'll be aware in February we launched the 10 year cancer plan, which was a, uh, really important um, report published by the Department of Health and my predecessor Ashley Dalton, together with the Secretary of State Wes Streating, worked really hard on that, together with the whole of the cancer community, um, charities such as Cancer Research UK and others really, really all came together and that, that's such an important piece of legislation that is going to ultimately save um, so many lives. And I'll just give you the top lines on that. The ambition is by 2035, 75%, um, of uh, people will be cancer free and living well after five years and that will save 320,000 um, lives. So it's, you know, it's a, it's a big ambition but we really believe that we can make a difference. And with regard to smokers, we're going to have a lung cancer screening rolled out nationally by 2030. And why that's so important for lung cancer? Because lung cancer is a really aggressive form of cancer. So for the smokers out there who are unfortunately, you know, and I don't want to be doom and gloom, but they are, you know, damaging the health by smoking. Some of them will go on to get cancer, that will be lung cancer. And hopefully the, the screen and the lung cancer screen and we're bringing in will help find that cancer and um, we'll treat it and hopefully they will be able to then go on to, to live, uh, you know, for the rest of their life more healthily than uh, they would have done.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we can really help them live the longest, best lives they can, um, even if they've been affected by this addiction. It sounds like this is a part of a program that could really make a difference with the right support and the right funding. So Sharon, looking forward, what do you hope the tobacco and vape SAP can mean for future of health in the uk?

Speaker C: So it's all about the smoke free generation and moving towards hopefully a smoke free uk, um, with regard to, you know, the population in the nhs, this can not only save lives, it can save the NHS millions, billions in the future, moving from sickness to prevention, which is, it's in my job title, uh, public health and prevention. And it's so important and it's so exciting for the future, for a different future where maybe smoking isn't the issue and the addiction that so many people have had to live with. So if we're going to ever have the healthiest generation of children ever, then, you know, that's what this legislation can do, can help bring about. So it's very, very exciting.

Speaker B: And now's the time with this law that we're really getting into, that we're beginning to see that kind of horizon, that future open up.

Speaker C: Uh, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker B: And I think that's it's so exciting to be a part of right now, to be part of a change like that for the future.

Speaker C: Thank you again to Cancer Research UK for all the work you did on this that, uh, helped to get us to this stage. Really, it is so, so important. Thank you.

Speaker B: Oh, I appreciate it. And we appreciate it, but thank you for joining us. Sharon.

Speaker C: Thank you, thank you for having me.

Speaker B: And at Cancer Research uk, we've been calling for this law as part of our Smoke Free UK campaign, which wouldn't be possible without all the volunteers who campaign and share their stories. We're now going to hear from one of them. Susie.

Speaker D: I don't just hope, I'm sure that it will make a huge difference to public health. I started smoking as a teenager, as I say, the same way that, that all my friends did. Really, it must have cost me an absolute fortune over the years, but it was hard to give up. I just, I tried a number of times but could never do it. And the fact that everybody smoked, it was just the thing to do. Then, of course, I got lung cancer as a direct result of smoking. For a year I was just suffering for all sorts of things. Operations, I was in and out of hospital. I had half of a lung removed, I had chemotherapy, radiotherapy. It was a truly, truly horrible time. I've got eight year olds, grandchildren, twins. It would have made a huge difference if this legislation had been brought in when I was growing up. And I just think that to have a whole generation coming through that it will be smoke free. Hopefully it will make a big difference to the health of the country. And I just find that incredible, just wonderful.

Speaker B: That was Susie's story. People like her made, uh, this law possible. You don't need to be part of a campaign or a cancer charity to see what tobacco does. I grew up watching my uncles smoke. I remember the smell it left on their coats like it was something comforting when really there was a good chance it would kill them. And then I started. I lost family to lung cancer and emphysema, but I kept smoking for close to a decade. Some of my friends still haven't been able to quit. Nearly everyone has a story like that. My colleague, Dr. Ian Walker is one of them. Ian is our executive director of policy and he's been working to try and prevent cancers caused by smoking for much of his professional life. Ian, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's very nice to be here.

Speaker B: Um, I really want to go back to the beginning of this story. What led you to focus on trying to tackle smoking. And why is that so important?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, let me start by just saying again what a hugely momentous time it is. And the passing of this bill, uh, represents a significant milestone for Cancer Research uk, but also for uk, uh, public health more broadly. Um, and to your question of why tobacco, um, you've talked about your own personal experience. I have, as many people do, my own personal story about how tobacco has impacted members of families and friends, um, and led to the deaths of people that we love and change lives forever. So, um, tobacco has always been an issue that I felt very passionately about and I think when we think about the new bill, um, important just to remind ourselves about some of the facts around smoking. Um, we know that we have around 5.5 million people in the UK who still smoke today. So people often say it's an old issue, it's solved, it's resolved, and of course it's not. But we also know that cigarettes, ah, are, and tobacco more broadly, a uniquely toxic consumer product. The smoke from cigarettes contains around 5,000 different chemicals. And these are the chemicals that touch the cells of your lungs when you breathe in. Ah, and of those 5,000, at least 70 of them are known carcinogens, which means that they can cause cancer. We know in the UK alone we have about 160 cases of cancer every single day caused by smoking. And that's 160 people whose lives are changed forever, um, 160 families and sets of friends who again, that day will be changing for the rest of their lives. Um, so it really does bring home again, the importance of why we need to have a, ah, real focus on reducing and limiting the harms caused by smoking and the harms caused by tobacco.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Ah, that it was, that it's such a unique product. Does that play into why we have such a focus on it?

Speaker A: At its heart, it's ultimately the biggest single risk factor for, um, death caused by cancer. Um, it's a preventable risk factor and we know that there are policy interventions that can make significant differences in terms of how people access and consume tobacco. Um, so fundamentally, um, it's the biggest risk factor. Um, it drives huge health inequalities across the uk. Um, and it's also something that we feel with the right policy intervention, something that we can address, something that we can reduce and remove those risks for future generations going forwards.

Speaker B: And there's been generations of policy interventions to get here. Why is that so important for what we're doing?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, one of the things we know about, um, tobacco is there's a huge body of evidence and actually some of the first, um, significant evidence was back in the 1950s. The first trials really demonstrated those links between smoking, tobacco and cancer. Um, and since then, Cancer Research UK have funded scientists who've demonstrated, uh, the impact of very specific chemicals and how they change the DNA and how they cause cancer. Um, we know that smoking causes at least 16 different types of cancer as well. Um, and we've only really talked about cancer so far. But of course smoking also, um, drives cardiovascular disease, it drives respiratory disease, um, it's a significant risk factor for m, some types of dementia, vascular dementias. So actually, um, the harms are so huge. Um, again, it just really does lead to an area where we should be focusing on, I guess, to your question, um, despite the fact that we've got such strong and compelling evidence, we also know that change in habits doesn't happen just with evidence. It really does need intervention at a policy level. And so over the past 20 or even longer 30 years, maybe we can see how policy interventions have, uh, m correlated, if you like, with a decline in the smoking rates of the public. So whether that's um, increasing the taxation of tobacco, um, which uh, makes it less appealing for people to buy, whether it's the age of sale restrictions that have changed over the past number, uh, of decades, um, whether it's the ban on smoking in public places, um, we can all remember. Well, not all, but certainly I'm holding smart to remember, um, going out and waking up in the morning and your clothes absolutely stinking of cigarettes. Because people used to routinely smoke in clubs and pubs and wherever. But of course, those times have changed now. And so we really do know that evidence alone doesn't drive the change, but evidence combined with policy that's built upon evidence, um, is a really fantastic way of driving change, reducing smoking rates and ultimately will reduce deaths caused by smoking.

Speaker B: M Because there's the evidence we find and there's a policy and the policy is so important because that can be put against the fact that tobacco is so addictive. It seems like that's the thing that can help create change when you're dealing with a product like tobacco.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt tobacco is hugely, hugely addictive. And, um, you know, we know that most people who smoke today started smoking when they were young. And actually one of the tactics of the industry has been to target products at younger people, get young people addicted early. Um, and we know it's extremely difficult to quit smoking. I mean, you said yourself that you'd quit smoking. You'll appreciate how difficult that can be. M around 8 in 10 people who smoke today have tried quitting. Uh, most people who try quitting, um, fail at the first attempt and they do need lots of support. Um, so again, the best way of reducing the risk is to think about the policy interventions that actually prevent young people and children from picking up, um, cigarettes in the first place and from, you know, leading into that lifelong addiction, um, uh, to tobacco and to smoking.

Speaker B: And that really brings us back to sort of the personal stories of people like Susie, um, and anyone who can share their story because that has been a really key part, I think, of the Cancer Research UK Smoke Free UK campaign. What's been your experience working with people with personal stories and how that has led to this kind of.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think absolutely. And the reality is we absolutely need the scientific evidence, we absolutely need the robust policies that sit behind that to say, how can we drive change? Um, but the thing that really resonates for people and brings it home, brings it to life, um, are the real life stories, the impact that you've heard from Susie's story. But, um, what you quite often hear when you speak to patients and advocates and people affected by cancer, um, more often than not, they equally talk about the impact it's had on their families, um, as they do about the impact it's had on themselves. And actually, um, you know, hearing about that firsthand really resonates with people. Most people will know somebody who has had, um, cancer. Most people will know somebody who has died from cancer. And many people will know somebody who's died from cancer caused by smoking. So, um, these personal stories are just hugely impactful and really do, um, help us drive the change that we need, both within government, but also in terms of, uh, how the public feel and engage with the issues as well.

Speaker B: And some of those personal stories are people who currently smoke. Like you said, most people who smoke have tried to quit. There's the difficulty of what we're dealing with, of this such addictive product. But on the other side of that, I think we see these arguments of, and I think you've encountered them, of this kind of law. Is the nanny state getting involved or it shouldn't be infringing on people's choices? Uh, why do you think people make that argument? What does that argument mean?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, this is an argument I hear all the time. It's an argument that, um, tobacco industry likes to push and many people who support and lobby on behalf of tobacco industry like to push. Um, the simple reality is that smoking isn't a choice. Um, and, you know, we've just talked about addiction. We know most smokers start when they're young and they become addicted. We've talked about how difficult it is to stop. And so that's not a choice. That's not a free choice. That's an addiction and a habit that people are finding very difficult to break. Um, so this isn't about removing liberties. This is about. It's not even about stopping current smokers from smoking. Um, you know, we want to provide cessation, so services and the right support to people who do that. But this new legislation is about protecting the next generation. It's about protecting our children and our grandchildren from ever getting dragged into that lifelong addiction of tobacco and from getting dragged into the, you know, frankly, the, the misery and the death that that follows for most tobacco users who continue to use it throughout their lives.

Speaker B: Because when they were 18 years old with a group of friends, they walked into a shop and bought a pack of cigarettes and a lighter.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the simple reality is people don't take that first decision with the intention of going and becoming lifelong smokers. People pick up cigarettes and become very quickly addicted. Um, we just talked already about how difficult it is for people to quit smoking. Very quickly, people become addicted. So, you know, the reality is, if eight out of ten smokers have, um, tried quitting, that kind of speaks for itself. Most smokers don't want to be smokers, but it's very, very hard to quit. Um, what I can also say is, um, you know, I personally have never spoken to a smoker who wants their children to smoke. It's not an aspiration that people have for their children. And so again, this legislation, this new law that we're bringing in will prevent the next generation, our children, our grandchildren, and every generation of children thereafter from ever becoming addicted to tobacco, ever legally buying tobacco in the uk. And it's a huge, huge step forward for UK public health. And, uh, it will see huge, um, implications over future, uh, generations in the. The amount of cancer caused by smoking.

Speaker B: Yeah. It feels when once on one side, there's a long time for that to come into effect. But right now, it's something to be so proud of. It's something to build so much on in terms of future health. Um, but I suppose in the moment, right now, what else is important? You've mentioned the 5.3 million people who smoke. How do we help support them?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And this is, um, you Know, this is all part of a broader vision of the UK becoming smoke free. And that will happen over a number of years and decades. Frankly, it will take time for that to happen. Um, but the fact that we have taken a world leading position on public health policy is something that the UK should be very proud of. Um, the fact that we're leading the way in terms of making these interventions is absolutely critical and I hope that other countries will follow us. But you're right alongside thinking about the next generation and preventing future um, smokers, um, it's really critical that we do support people. And what we know is that um, if you can provide these services in the locations that they're most needed, you can have a really safe, significant um, increase in the um, success of people quitting smoking. It's really hard to quit on your own, but actually doing it through these services really increases your likelihood of success. So, um, you know, helping people who want to quit is a really critical part and we'll see the impact and the effects of that much more quickly, um, than the new law. Um, but those two things together, um, again put us very firmly on track now to making the UK smoke free, um, which uh, is a, a really positive legacy that we can think about leaving our children.

Speaker B: Yeah. Without any of these stories, or far, far fewer of these stories where people don't feel guilt, don't go through the treatments that are so difficult, don't have to face the difficulties of addiction, but can live, as we like to say at Cancer Research, you hate longer, better lives.

Speaker A: Yeah, longer better lives. Free from the fear of cancer, uh, and free from the fear of cardiovascular disease and respiratory disease, um, you know, stroke, um, dementias, et cetera. So again, obviously as Cancer Research uk, we very much focused on the facts and figures that uh, relate to cancer. But m, the single biggest thing you can do to improve your health is to quit smoking across the board. So again, this is new laws which will help us make sure that we prevent smokers, uh, of tomorrow ever being smokers. Um, alongside that, the interventions around helping quitters to quit, um, will be really important.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that something I want to wrap up with, I suppose that we've been on a long journey, research and campaigning, um, we've reached this incredible milestone and I don't know if you have any last thoughts for our conversation about this as someone part of that journey and as a parent and a family member.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And as a, as a parent first, perhaps. Um, I've talked before, I've got two children um, neither is of my children will be legally sold tobacco in the uk, um, ever, um, on the back of this new law. So, um, you know, what a fantastic legacy for us to leave. And of course it's not my children, it's the 13 million, um, children across the UK today that will never legally be sold tobacco in the UK and every generation thereafter. So that's a huge, huge legacy for us to leave. Um, but one of the other reflections, I think, um, of that 10, 20, 30 years actually, of tobacco control and research underpinning policy, um, will be, um, the fact that it's been such a community effort, if you like. So Cruk Cancer Research UK have really driven, um, uh, our own, uh, priority areas around that. But we work very closely with the broader charity sector, with public health organizations, um, with the government, with the Department for Health and actually with um, politicians across a range of different political parties. Um, of course, alongside that, um, it's been hugely important, important that we've had ambassadors, um, people who share their stories, um, and provide the impact of sharing their stories. And also, um, particularly, I think over the last five or six years we've seen a shift in public sentiment and, um, you know, it's hugely important that we get strong public support. Over 72% of people that we surveyed, um, were supportive of increasing age of sale and ultimately phasing out tobacco. So, um, what's been really powerful, I think, is that collective, collective effort across a really broad community, uh, of people all pushing for the same thing, all understanding the importance of the impact of tobacco control and, and I think that will probably be one of my, um, lasting memories of the journey so far.

Speaker B: And that's what we can do by working together.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: As cliched as it might be. But this can change the country, it can change health for generations to come.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Um, so, yeah, I think everyone has quite a lot to be proud of.

Speaker A: But undoubtedly, yeah, this is, again, it's a great moment for public health in the uk.

Speaker B: Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you for joining us. This conversation, Ian.

Speaker A: Oh, thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to this episode of that Cancer conversation. For more on the Tobacco and Vapes act and Cancer Research UK's work to prevent cancer, you can follow the links in the description box. And if you're enjoying the show, please don't forget to give us a like and to subscribe to our channel. You can also ask questions by commenting below or emailing podcast at cancer.org uk.