TEKTOK Classic: Leveraging S&OP to Drive Customer Collaboration and Business Transformation at Plastic Packaging

Speaker A: Welcome to TechTalk Digital Supply Chain Podcast where we will help you eliminate the noise and focus on the information and inspiration that you need to transform your business, impact supply chain success, and enable you to replace risky inventory with valuable Insights. Join your TechTalk host, Corinne Bursa, the 2020 Supply Chain Pro, to know of the year. With more than 25 years of supply chain and technology expertise and the scars to prove it, Corrine has the heart of a teacher and has helped nearly 1,000 customers transform their businesses and tell their success stories. Join the conversation, share your insights and learn how to harness technology innovations to drive tangible business business results. Buckle up. It's time for Tech Talk powered by Supply chainow.

Speaker B: Well, welcome back supply chain movers and shakers. Corinne Bursa here and I am your host for Tech Talk, the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. I want to thank you for joining me today because my commitment to you today is that you're going to walk away with some fresh inspiration on how you can leverage your sales and operations planning process to drive growth, to increase customer collaboration, and to transform your business. Now, one of the fun parts of being a podcast host is the variety of experts that I have the opportunity to interview. It really has been awesome, and it is my pleasure today to introduce you to Angie Taylor. Angie is the Chief Commercial Officer and Vice president with Plastic Packaging Technologies. And I've had the opportunity to know and work with Angie since her time at Gear for Sports. And if you're not familiar with Gear for Sports, they are a division of Hanes Brands. But this is where I first met Angie and she was the director of sales forecasting and planning. And then I watched Angie build a top notch planning team and a really, really resilient sales and operations planning process from the ground up. And she did this with consumer products company Vista Outdoor. Quite honestly, Angie has been delivering on her commitments for years. And one of the things that I have observed is that she's got the ability to attract great talent to develop them and then to retain them and challenge them to do new and exciting things. And she has consistently brought together people, process technology and data to drive tangible, uh, results. So let's get started. Angie, thank you for being with us today.

Speaker C: Well, thank you for inviting me. I'm really excited to be here and share any knowledge that might support the cause.

Speaker B: Well, so let's start, Angie, with just maybe a brief description of, um, what plastic packaging technologies does, and then we'll talk a little more about your role in the business. But let's, let's get a Baseline on the company that you're with today?

Speaker C: Absolutely. So yeah, I feel really blessed to be with plastic packaging, especially during the last couple years. But PPT has been around and in business for 45 years and so delivering on flexible packaging. And so, um, we like to say around here, really our true mission is to just enrich people's lives and the product they use with purposeful, powerful packaging. And so we offer to the market a number of different platforms with plastic packaging, um, but always in the flexible space.

Speaker B: So flexible packaging. So we're talking about bags or pouches. I mean what, what, what does that look like from a consumer perspective?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. We offer a number of different, um, formats, but always inflexibles. So we have, we like to say everything we deliver on is laminated roll stock or roll stock in general. Um, and that can be transformed inside our business. We see ourselves as a top converter. So we make all types of different pouches from small side seal pouches to large format bags. And so we transform that in our manufacturing plants. We're in three different locations and we are definitely in the heart of, uh, the pet and people food industries. And so we're centralized in Columbus, Ohio and Kansas City and really deliver to a majority of the top CPGs in that space where they might need food grade packaging. So there's a lot of technology that goes into the pouches and bags that we make.

Speaker B: Okay, so, and you said something really important there, food grade packaging. So you know, those are some very specific requirements, uh, that come into play. So when you, so when we think of your job, your role in the business, right, Chief Commercial Officer, how is that, I mean, describe to us what that encompasses and how is that connected in supply chain?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. So we have a core value that is customer wins. And so my job really is to help kind of rally the troops and help lead that philosophy. And so, um, my direct responsibility is to support our sales teams, our service teams, our onboarding teams, and supply chain teams, um, along with marketing. And so we see ourselves as really championing what does that customer need, how do we deliver on value to them from start to finish. And so I partner strongly with our operations team to make sure that not only as we talk to customers are we designing for manufacturability, but we're designing in a spot that we can help produce and deliver that value to the customer. So I have a lot of different inner workings inside of our cross functional teams, but my real focus is to make sure customer wins. We say that externally and internally we want to make sure as these products move through development, because everything we do is custom, we're designing in mind of that product, the end product that's going to go in our customers pouches or roll stock. And so everything's made to order. We're working with them, um, along that process to make sure that we're delivering that value back to them. So I get to help cheerlead the team along to make sure that happens.

Speaker B: So what I'm hearing, and um, I'm oversimplifying all the hard work you do, but what I'm hearing is you not only make the promises, but you deliver on the promises. Is that a fair statement?

Speaker C: Absolutely. There would be, uh, you know, for the last couple years especially, you can make a ton of promises and never really deliver on it. And you'll get caught in that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Always, you know, preach internally. It's, you know, let's make sure we're committing to things that are a reality for our customer. Because no one wants a, uh, commitment on a date or a product performance only to find out that that's not really what they get at the end of the day. And some of these projects can be in works with customers for, you know, over a year as they're developing the products that go into these, these pouches or into the roll stock that ultimately they have to design into pouch. So yeah, we have to really stand behind what we say and commit to.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So a couple of things you said, Andy, you talked about custom, you know, custom products for your customers. So we're talking about a, um, make to order environment, correct? Not a make to stock environment.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. Everything we do from the film technology to the graphics, that's where our powerful comes in. We to make sure that these products have the shelf presence, uh, because they do act as a silent salesman for most of our customers. And especially in the last couple years with this big push towards E Commerce, you know, there's not somebody in the store helping to sell it. So we need to make sure that from, you know, the way the package is designed, you can fit those beautiful graphics on there. You can tell the story of your product. I mean, everything's food grade. You got to follow those rules. So we have, you know, ingredient panels to pay close attention to. So our printing and the capabilities we have there have to be top notch to help deliver that value to the customer and safety with the food that we're ultimately going into that bag.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So, so one, uh, one of the things I know has been on Your agenda is to help plastic packaging technology grow and so that they can actually grow in a very profitable fashion as well. So Angie, you and I have been together now, three different companies or have known each other, uh, while you've been at three different companies. And I have seen you implement a, uh, sales and operations planning process in some very different businesses. So everything from, you know, consumer goods, which is make to stock now, to the environment that you're in with Plastic packaging, which is make to order. Let's talk for just a few minutes about the need for transformation. Right. Some of your drivers for joining, you know, what attracted you to the opportunity at uh, plastic Packaging and then where sales and operations planning fit into that directive.

Speaker C: Definitely. Well, I know we'll say it a lot today, but it really does always start with the people and the process and then those tools. And so I really wasn't looking to make a move, but I met the people at Plastic Packaging and the leadership team here and the passion that they had for the industry, the business. And when you look at how important, uh, food security is in this country, making sure that, you know, these products get to shelf. And the last couple years really been shined a light on that even more. It was the people that really attracted me and the passion for constantly evolving ourselves. We have core values that are really focused on this passionate persistence for results and you know, making best better. And so that to me was really critical because as you know me, I love to come in and, and try to help transform a business to the next level. And I knew that the people here understood the importance of that. They had a great growth story. We have a great product and it was really about coming over to think about what processes and what scale did we need via these processes. And there weren't a lot of tools. And that's something that I pride myself in for the last few years is really making sure that we got the people in play, the processes are working the way we want them and installing tools for, uh, scalability. And we know the complexity and supply chain from, you know, figuring out what does the customer really want. But how do you get that through your, your planning departments and the supply chain, the raw materials, you know, working with your suppliers to make it happen. And in this environment, manufacturing that when it all comes together. So m, I was really blessed to find a great environment where they embraced that and realized how critical was to being able to grow. And I think most people in supply chain, we fundamentally understand it's really hard to plan to do better. But educating people on why that's so important. And, you know, forecast is never perfect, but, uh, it's better to plan and try to make strides towards achieving a result versus sitting back and just letting you know, whatever happens, usually whatever happens isn't the thing you want to happen. So it's been an exciting time to really come in, embrace that. M. I've almost been here five years and so I've had the chance to bring in some really top talent, get our processes where we wanted them. Um, and obviously it's always evolving. We learn a lot every day, um, as we grow the business, you need different tools, different processes, different levels of complexity. So it's an exciting journey that we're on for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's important maybe that we understand that the goal here when you came in to plastic packaging, was not necessarily to transform supply chain operations, it was to help transform the business. Right. Or help to fuel, if you will, the business growth plan that was in place. Um, and so supply chain became an enabler in that mix. And I think that may sound like a subtle difference, but I think it's really important because you had the support of the, uh, entire executive team to put the process in place, bring in some great resources, and then start to serve customers better. Is that a fair statement?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And I think a big piece of it was that I had the background of that education and having proved myself over the years of what I was capable of, we needed to do a lot of education and, you know, to have, um, you know, I'm sure that's why I'm here, because to have that experience, they wanted somebody who could speak the reality of what is happening. You know, this isn't unique to plastic packaging. And so like you mentioned, having that experience in, um, different size businesses, different products, they needed someone who could come in and really help to start educating and educating not only internally, you know, what was needed or maybe where we headed, but also to educate our customers on the importance of it and how them partnering with us was going to make a huge difference in the way that we service them in their, I guess, transparency of data that we shared, um, in the investments that we would make, that they would actually see results from those as well. Because sometimes when you're doing these processes, you start asking your customers for different things that they weren't used to and they're like, oh, why? Why are we having this conversation? Or what's this new cadence on sharing information? So there was a lot of, um, you know, bringing in my expertise from past roles and really sharing those experiences and how we could help transform and improve their service level, their lives, you know, in the chaos of supply chain in general. So yeah, yeah, and I think that's

Speaker B: important because when we start talking about planning with our customers and our suppliers, that fundamentally means we need a plan that gives us that visibility. So I need a, uh, customer level forecast. I need to understand very specifically what that forecast looks like for that customer or for that channel. And so I'm assuming as you put together Your S&OP process, talk to us just a little bit about that because that has to be a foundation to actually be able to, to confidently collaborate and make those commitments with your customers.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. So we are about three years into the journey and we use some very, uh, incremental like step plans because we knew if we didn't do it in a successful manner, like start with our top customers, the ones that could top in terms of volume and that could really move the needle on the business. And, and we knew had enough sophistication as well to be able to have those conversations. And so we rolled out slowly not only the internal education on what was important, what did the monthly cadence look like, how did we step through demand planning and then how are we going to come together and look at supply, then how are we going to transfer that to operations and look at constraints? So pretty much every three to six months we would kind of add a little bit of maturity as people marinated on those topics and started to see how that evolved. So I think that's one really important step for people who are getting started. It's one do a lot of education, you know, not only internally, but externally, and then give yourself some space to add as you go. And it really is a journey and we use that language a lot because it's, it's not something you turn on one month and you're like, oh, well, everything's working great, it's slow and you have to give people time to start to work through some of these processes.

Speaker B: Uh, oh, totally agree. I think perfection is the enemy of progress. Right. And I think taking that type of incremental improvement over time is important. I also think that sometimes we overestimate the capabilities of our customers in that process. Right. So I know that there have been situations where your team has actually been able to share some new and interesting insights with your customers. So tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Our customer mix is made up of a lot of different diverse businesses, diverse business size, complexity, but you and I'm sure people who are listening won't be as amazed as sometimes I am. But you can be a billion dollar company and not have a very sophisticated S and O P process, or you can be a, you know, $200 million company and know every detail you need to know. So we always find that we have to tailor it a little bit to the customer and the customer group. But what I love about our team, because we have a lot of experts internally, they've understood that to make this process a, uh, win win with the customers, they have to bring value to it. So they analyze their information and look for trends. And we've been really fortunate to invest in really great supply chain tools. And so as we come into those meetings with our customers, uh, demand consensus or if the customer's on a quarterly review, we have the data behind it and our team will analyze it and say, hey, you know, we're seeing that this group of SKUs is not performing like it did a year ago or hey, you had a lot of version up in your sku. And um, this one, this new SKU is not performing as well as the old sku. And so by bringing that, it's almost a checks and balance more especially with customers who don't have those insights, they'll take the data away and say, oh my gosh, yeah, you're right, look. What, you know, you called this out. Maybe we need to make a, an adjustment in our film stocking program or our raw, uh, material stocking programs. So it's been really fun to see that. And I've seen that happen over the years at a lot of different companies and customers really value that because a lot of times they are pulled between multiple jobs or maybe they just have a really big book of business and they're not able to get in and analyze the data. And so I think that's how we really build, ah, strong trust and rapport with our customers is that we are always looking for ways to help them solve a problem, especially one before it happens so they don't get overstocked or, you know, maybe they're just carrying a little bit too much inventory or maybe not enough. And so we like to focus on that and try to find little nuggets to help them see the value in the process.

Speaker B: So let's talk about that for just a minute. So obviously the pandemic occurred and we're still working with some of the repercussions as, as business in some areas returns to normal and in other areas is probably permanently changed as Far as the channels, um, that it will go through. But through this juncture, I know plastic packaging has actually seen growth in the business. So congratulations first of all on that. Ah, I know that that is hard won growth because your had some pretty dramatic market changes. Right. So it could be that they were accustomed to selling through retail locations and those were not just big shipments, large quantities, but maybe the packaging was different as well. So let's talk just a minute about how this customer collaboration occurs and how your team M was able to help make a transition in the product product mix from maybe large packaging to small packaging that would be delivered through E commerce channels. What did that look like and how did you, how did your snop process and your collaboration with customers, how did that help because you were able to bring some good data to the conversation to make some better decisions?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. We, I mean I'm super excited first of all that we started this journey ahead of the COVID pandemic because I couldn't even imagine for some, I know they were just scrambling like crazy. We were about a year into our journey and so we started seeing really quickly some of those changes. The E commerce side. We're also very fortunate that we're in flexible packaging because I think the number one thing people learned really quickly is when you can't go shop for it at retail and it comes to you on your front door, um, a lot of things break when they're hard, rigid containers. And so we started to see a lot of shift to um, flexible packaging that would help support that type of delivery method. So that's been really interesting for the industry of flexible packaging. And that trend will definitely continue now because consumers have witnessed that and seen even through the value chain how much savings there are and shipping flexible packaging over rigid containers, um, and just the weight of those or the breakage that they've seen. On top of that, our customers, we have a heavy customer base in the pet side. And of course everyone adopted a pet and everybody had a new co worker at home. And so we saw a lot of um, snacking and treats and changes in dog sizes. Even people adopting like smaller pets. And so the packaging them understanding like what are they going to feed their pet? So the packaging itself, where customers used to, they go to the retail store and they would get you know, the 30, 40, 50 pound dog food, dry kibble, they bring that home. Not as easy to ship anymore. At that point people hadn't figured all that out with the subscription services. And so um, you are starting to see smaller Packaging. One thing our team does a really great job of is we call it our key account management team and they have a quarterly business review. And so with them and the demand planning team, they would pull these data points into these topics of discussion during those meetings. And so we could really ask transparent questions around the trends we are seeing. And at the same time the, um, CPG companies were realizing all these quick shifts in trends. And so it was really, um, fun to see the move of, you know, hey guys, we're seeing this trend there. Yeah, we're seeing it too. Or vice versa. And how is that going to shift volume on the bags that we're producing? Because too for us, those are on completely different, um, pieces of equipment too. And so then we had to translate that into capacity modeling what that looked like for labor. And obviously material can be different when you have a large bag versus smaller bag and zippers and closures and all that fun stuff. So the process of really staying in front of the customer and using, um, data, trends and insights from the industry to help quickly move those products around was probably the most exciting thing for our teams internally. That we felt like experts in that too. And with those meetings, we would share that knowledge across the base of industries too. So maybe we have a team that's working on one customer and another team that's working on a different customer. We call it our pet pod. And so the pet pod would get together and share trends and say, oh, this is what we're seeing in the market. Or the people pod. They would do the same thing. And so, you know, it's all about just really sharing information and trying to move as quickly as you can.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, I mean, those are some great examples. I mean, you said so many good things in there. I want to come back on a couple of topics. First of all, we recognize product mix change so substantially. And product mix for your customers is product mix for, for your business as well. Right down to. You mentioned the ingredient labels before. So I know that there have also been some significant constraints in certain product that goes into the packaging. Right. So there have been anything from chicken constraints in some markets to, you know, other protein constraints as well. So I'm imagining that all of those ingredient labels have to be adjusted to reflect whatever is actually in the pouch or in the bag for customers. So as that market condition changed, you were able to help your customers respond to those changes. Is that correct?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. We have a fabulous graphics pre media team here. We like to call it a three by three relationship. So a lot of our graphics teams are directly tied into to the customer and can see those shifts happening. We call it version up around here. But so there's a lot of different versions as they were running into supply chain issues with raw ingredients. You know, maybe they even had to move locations because of a Covid outbreak or something like that. And so you always have to have like, points of origin and, and follow all of those rules that are laid out, um, on ingredients panels. So it was a bit of a wild ride. We, uh, were able to track some of that changeover because it did really impact our graphics team and um, item setup teams and making sure that we were matching up the right art to the new product. Um, but yeah, a lot of crazy changes, I guess, for the whole industry.

Speaker B: Yeah, lots of changes, lots of responses to changes in the market. So, so let's. You started alluding to this already, but, but when we bring it back to this discussion around sales and operations planning. Right. So we've established that plastic packaging is a make to order business. So visibility of future demand is going to help us align, uh, capacity and production capabilities. And then Angie, we also mentioned that, uh, plastic packaging technologies has seen some pretty significant growth. So I'm thinking that you've had to bring on additional production capacity. So as, uh, a business executive looking at when do we make those investments, there's got to be a lead time associated with being able to bring up or activate a new production line. Give us a point of view and how sales and operations planning has helped you and the other members of the executive team make those capital investment decisions.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. Well, our, uh, vice president of operations and I are BFFs over the last three years because I couldn't do anything without him. And he looks to us to help him stay out of trouble as well. And so we do have a monthly cadence. On the third week of every month, we get together as an executive team and we talk about all the supply signals that are coming at us. He's got a really good grasp of, you know, what's his labor plan look like, what are the lead times on equipment. And we really just come together and marry that up. We uh, do it always for budgeting the year prior. But, you know, the supply chain's been impacted too when you talk about equipment buying, um, with their labor issues. So we've had to take even a, um, a more proactive look. With the growth that we've been seeing, we've had to plan even further out. And so we want to make sure with, um, the Demand signals we're seeing from our customers. The product mix so critical because there's a lot of people moving into sustainable products. There can be new equipment that really helps to run that more efficiently. And we have grown substantially in the last couple years. We've added a whole new plant, our center of Excellence for pouching. We've added all kinds of new equipment there and to really get prepared for this whole sustainability initiative with all the big large CPGs are pushing towards some deadline. So yeah, we really uh, stick to that uh, monthly process. Obviously things we have a big win in sales and say this is going to directly impact labor that we budgeted on one asset. I mean, you know, he and I will get together and just start talking about what do we need to do next. But we really make it an important point that all of our directors and our leadership team, executive leadership team, is together on that third Monday of the month and we talk through the next 12 months and really we do strategic planning for three years but talk more directly about what we're seeing as the change in our uh, customers portfolios and how that directly will impact not only equipment capacity but our labor capacity for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, those are great, great points, very valuable. Now Angie, another thing that you mentioned is, and I know you do this by second nature, but I think it's important for our listeners to understand this ongoing education effort, right? How do we actually get long term traction with sales and operations planning? As an expert in this particular area or business process, I assume everybody's doing it, but I know the reality is they're not doing it and those that are doing it, at least half of them are not doing it well. Um, and it doesn't have the executive level support it needs. Now I know that's not the case at plastic packaging, but how do you keep that momentum going, especially as personnel changes either at your customers that you've got the collaborative relationships with or as your team continues to grow. What are a couple of nuggets that our listeners might be able to take away and how they can keep reinforcing, if you will, the importance of the process, but also maybe you know, kind of inching forward on their maturity spectrum.

Speaker C: You know, I think over the years, as I look back and think about, okay, when were we most successful in, you know, getting it implemented and the time frame we wanted or getting the investments we wanted. Because in some cases, I mean there's different tiers of affordability. You can get great people, you can get great tools, you can invest in new processes. But I think it does boil down to just showing the wins along the way and showing the value. Because it's absolutely 100% that this process is going to deliver better value to your customers in regards to on time delivery. You know, having them look at even if you're business to business and there's chargebacks they're seeing at retailers or out of stocks, we know that, you know, they're getting hit by the big guys of the world when those shelves are empty. Finding metrics that you can start to really evaluate and show that progressive improvement on these processes. I have never run into an instance where they do not pay for themselves. If it's not about, you know, reduced inventory that's aged or about being able to deliver a bigger bottom line and a bigger top line. You definitely also see these intangible benefits with just how much more calm your workforce is. And they feel like they have the insights that they need to do their jobs better and they know that they're in lockstep with each other. And I think that to me is one of the biggest things I tend to see with, you know, between customers or just things in my past experience. People are always kind of shocked, like, how are you and the VP of ops, like hanging out and golfing? You know, it's like because we're, we're a team, we're in lockdown.

Speaker B: You're in it together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: We know that it's about delivering to the customer at the end of the day and if, uh, we're not talking to each other, it's never going to happen. And so I think it's just showing those little wins and continuing to educate people. If one thing really good I think came out of the last three years, it is that supply chain is almost a household name. I hear people all the time just blaming random things on supply chain or oh, well, you know, supply chain, fix this or whatever. I love that because I'm like, okay, I feel like we finally gotten the recognition that we need. Maybe it was negative in some regards, but people start to understand, wow, supply chain is really important and we should make more investments in that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I completely agree. I have said time and time again, supply chain, uh, has now taken center stage and has a seat at the table. And I think that there is a deeper appreciation for how it is more than a cost center, that it becomes this strategic lever point. You've given us a couple of really specific examples here. When you started this initiative, Angie, you were starting from ground zero, uh, for plastic packaging. You had to look at your business process, your team, the tools, even access to the data, that can be really overwhelming. Help us understand where did you start, like, what was the foundation of the foundation, if you will, uh, in getting this underway? Because you've come a long way in a very short period of time. Yeah,

Speaker C: I spend a lot of time with people really talking through what, where were the pain points? You know, I think understanding people's operating reality and what's happening, not only the voice of the customer and how are we taking care of them, but also internally, what's going well, what's not going well. And you're exactly right. What information do we have? Because there's a lot of feelings that come into supply chain. Whether it's going well, it's not going well. We're also blessed with an awesome VP of technology and he is a master genius at like, hey, if I need this data point, because I'm trying to prove a theory out to myself, like, is this working or, uh, this isn't working. You got to have the information, really. And two, that helps you set your baseline for improvement. Because you can tell right away if you know your service level is a 50%, your on time delivery is never happening. You know, kind of where you need to start knocking things off that I am, um, very focused on. It's gotta start with people because they're gonna help drive all the processes. If you're gonna implement new tools, you gotta have great people to be able to do it. So really looking at the people and getting a sense for what was going on and then focusing on those processes, because a lot of people can put a tool in and then think they're gonna build process if the tool doesn't support the processes of your business. Cause they're all different. How we transform information from our customer to our operations team is much different than it was at, uh, all the other companies I've been at. So we needed to make sure that we understood what processes would be successful, started playing those out and tinkering with them, and then came back and put a tool set in that really supported that in an automated fashion and gave those, you know, top players onto my team the ability to just go wild with it and really come up with some innovative ways to help solve problems a lot quicker.

Speaker B: Great. So you started with people making sure you had the right team, and then established the process or at least the groundwork for the process that you were developing, and then you looked at tools or technology to support that.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: In that sequence. Uh, and I would say that that's important because simply investing in a digital supply chain planning solution without the right people or a good process is kind of putting the cart before the horse for many companies, especially a company that's growing the way plastic packaging is growing. And you're always going to need to serve the needs today as well as plan for the needs tomorrow. So I think that that, that path, if you will, is important. Tell me, Angie. You know, you started this customer collaboration initiative, which is, I want to say it's innovative, but the reality is we've talked about collaborative planning, forecasting and replenishment, CPFR for years, for almost 20 years, to be quite honest with you. But, uh, very few companies have made this work. Now, uh, plastic packaging has had some really good collaborative relationships with your top customers. First of all, how did you pick those customers? Were those based off volume or were they based off of, you know, being some of the more challenging customers? How do you decide who to pursue a collaborative relationship with?

Speaker C: Yeah, so it definitely is a mix. We look at strategy, we look at, you know, the relationships that we have in some of these brands. And some of them are not the biggest, you know, in the world, but we know that they have a passion towards flexibles and what we're doing and they're innovative. So we'd like to learn from them too, and know what's going on. When we have pain points, we're seeing a ton of expedited, um, orders or we're seeing service, uh, levels that aren't working, they typically come on the radar to be our friend in demand, consensus. And so we want to make sure that we can help solve those problems externally and internally. And it helped really, I think, build the trust of our internal teams too. There's nothing worse than having a customer relationship where 50% of the time it's an expedite, uh, the sky is always falling. So we know that there's something going on in the planning process or an interpretation of needs that is just not working. And so typically those become top candidates. And then obviously, if they're really large and they drive a lot of capacity need, or maybe an innovative platform that we need to be planning longer term for, they'll typically come on the radar as well. So it's a little bit of a mix. We definitely tailor it. And each year we stop and we kind of look at our budget and our planning and say, okay, you know, who's next, who's up? You know, or some people we may have a monthly cadence with, some we may have a quarterly with. Because maybe the volume's not that great, but we know that they're on a trend line that could lead to investment or maybe even investment in our technical team or our innovations or graphics team team. And we want to make sure we understand that. So we have those conversations. It's not as directly related to units and capacity, but it's people capacity and talent capacity as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you, you have mentioned. So I. That's critically important when you have dedicated capacity to specific products. It's really important to understand how to best utilize that. When you talk about this collaborative process. Right. I mean, there's all kinds of awesome words and phrases we use about the visibility and collaboration. Sometimes that's hard or sometimes trading partners, customers and suppliers can be a little uncomfortable with that. Right. Well, I don't really want to tell you about this capacity constraint or. So how do you build that trust in the relationship that says, hey, I'm going to bring to you the facts so that together we can plan effectively? Because they've got to feel comfortable bringing that to your team as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, building that trust over the last couple years, especially to keep people out of harm's way, has been really important. But, and it's been a training we've done with our sales team as well, that transparency is key. We do not want to over commit to something we cannot do. And we are partners. And so we have this, um, we just actually even had some more training on it today. We have this relationship pyramid and we say not everybody can be a collaborative partner because it does take a lot of time and investment. But we would rather be in that relationship than transactional because we know we can be more successful together when we're collaborating. And that does mean sharing tough news because it doesn't get better with age. And over the last couple years, I think that's been even more relevant. We come at that approach and say, hey, listen, you know, partner, we do not want to put you in a bad position with the retailers or with your, your own operation. Here are the things that are happening and here's what we're going to do to either, you know, toggle and do something different, or we can support you in this way, but not this way right now. And I think some of those conversations have been really tough. But at the end of the day, we're now seeing our relationships are even stronger with those customers. The wins that we're getting are even greater because I think there's probably nothing better than a foundation of trust that they know we're not going to put them in trouble. And we've seen them get themselves into situations like that or not get themselves into it, but they've been in situations like that. And we'll, we do not over commit. We'll basically tell them, oh, we'd love to do it, we love the business, we want to grow, but we're not going to say we can do something that physically we cannot do that would ruin our relationship or tarnish it. And I think people struggle sometimes to deliver, you know, bad news. But at the end of the day, we're seeing, we do a voice of the customer survey and a net promoter survey. And that's the one thing we always hear back. It's like, hey, they're gonna do what they say they are gonna do. So you may want to force them into a corner to do something, but they're gonna say no, you know, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker B: And I think that a lot of times good data and the fact that you have met your performance criteria in the past, it helps to build that trust. And good data or good forward visibility or what your projections are, I think is important because it drains the emotion a little bit.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: So talk to me about maybe putting your solutions in place and being able to visualize or show a customer what their volume looks like or the capacity that they're going to need on a particular package or product line for them. Have there been instances, Angie, where they've been just surprised, impressed, and said, wow, how did you figure that out versus what maybe their information showed from their planning process?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And I think that contributes to, over the last couple years, there's been a lot of turnover inside of different businesses and people have, uh, shifted roles. And so there's nothing better than, you know, when your customer is onboarding someone new and you can share kind of this history and trend line of what's happened, you know, what we're projecting to see occur, um, and having those checks and balances with each other. There's a lot of cases where that has occurred over the last couple years and customers are really thankful. They're like, oh my gosh, like, I did not see that coming. Or they've been so tied up in different projects with everything going on. And then there are cases too where they're like, oh, you know what? We didn't tell you that we're discontinuing this product line, um, you know, in six months. And so we need to give you that information because it's going to Impact, you know, labor or whatever. We have a few customers, I mean, we take our capacity, they may be almost solo, to a certain capacity line. And so we'll show them the breakdown of their units and dollars against those capacity and labor plans. And that's been really important over the last couple years as people have been concerned about labor and, you know, all the, um, action plans. What if there's a break, a Covid breakout in your plant? You know, what would happen? How could we shift into different production lines? How would we shift from a Kansas City plant to the Columbus plant? All of those things we've been able to lay out and have, you know, remedy plans and actions together.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that that is really important. Right. How do, how do we respond to, to these unknown to us at the time, um, market conditions. Right. And we have certainly had a number of those that can test our resiliency and our agility. You know, Angie, when we think of it from the customer point of view, from your customer point of view, and we're talking about some very large consumer products companies, some big brands in the marketplace place, how do they measure good when they, when they look at plastic packaging, obviously service has got to be a component of that. But how do they, you know, how do they value all of the effort that you and your team are bringing to the table? Right. All of this collaboration, these insights, um, these predictions. What are the ways that you think that they look at the relationship and they really start to value that relationship maybe a little differently than they have in the past?

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. Um, we've had some really long standing customers and then some newer customers, midterm customers. And so I think everyone has a different idea of what they value. Right. And so we try to make sure that one, as we're onboarding our customers, customers, we really understand that, like what is their operating reality? What do they value? Because it's always different. You know, one may value on time, complete shipments and they need to be there within two days and they got all these metrics. Others may value our innovation, you know, proposition. We have an amazing group of technical packaging engineers, film experts. And so they value innovation as their changing their products. And then we may have customer relationships where it's all about production efficiency. And so they may be laminated roll stock customers. They need the best quality, flattest films, you know, so they can run them on their equipment and get the best efficiencies there. So one thing as, uh, a sales team, we're always trying to listen and figure out, you know, what Is it where is the value proposition with this question customer, um, and then how do we expend our resources to make sure they get that value? And we've seen over the last three years it changed dramatically. Right, so what was maybe uh, you know, just about price, you know, where is it now? Well, it's in the value selling of prices and everything. If you cannot be in stock and service your end customers and it impacts their production line and food waste and different things. So I feel like the conversations have really matured over the last couple years to stop and say, you know, I thought I knew what was value to you, but really what is it now? You know, is it giving you back time? Is it quality? Is it, you know, the lead time, having film stocking programs or whatever it is? So I feel really proud of our team. They've come come up with a really great toolbox and so we can draw from that, depending on the customer, what their needs are.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, those are great examples because you're right, not every customer is going to measure it in the exact same scorecard, if you will, because they're going to have different business drivers that they're operating against as well. When you think about this effort, um, and these investments, right. For plastic packaging technologies, you know, we've talked about people, we've talked about putting new process in place and that means change, right? And let's not kid ourselves, change is hard for some. For humans, more than anything, change is hard technology which has been adopted and rolled out and you know, and continues, um, to help progress your business access to data. When you think about these things, Andy, one of the things I like to Talk about on TechTalk is, is the ability to replace risky inventory with valuable information or valuable insights. Right. So that we're more confident in the go forward plan. Are there examples internally for plastic packaging that you feel like today the team, the business is in um, a much better position than four years ago to be able to certainly evaluate where you are today, but to also look at what your plans are to drive the business against the overall business plan.

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah. I mean there are so many areas for the last five years. When I think back of all the change we've had and the maturity of all of our teams and the inner workings of the teams, a couple things really stand out. Onboarding as a process for us is really critical and we leverage Salesforce CRM to really think about our pipeline and engage with our technical partners on the front side to make sure, you know, we're out talking to the customer about the value. But from a technical proposition, what does that mean? And how are we going to design this product to actually run on our assets? And so the amount of information collected that helps the whole of the group deliver the results, I think has been one of our biggest changes. Um, every year we stop and we think, okay, what are the three things that, ah, we have to do this year that will help to continue to drive value? And obviously, as we're scaling and growing, we have to let go of things too. And so you can't just continue to pile on process because that'll bog you down. And we like to say we're kind of at this, like, chasm, like we're passing over it right now. You know, we have great new tools. They're all interconnected. Our teams are connected. They're realizing, talking to each other and sharing valuable information and sometimes translating that. Because what you think from a technical brain versus what you think from a sales brain. Brain, sometimes they're not the same words. So I think all of that change and really having information that speaks to multiple groups and helps them reach their goals has been one of the most amazing things to watch over the last five years. And, um, our leadership team, taking care of people has been our number one priority because we couldn't have done any of this about healthy, you know, productive, passionate people over the last five years. So it's just been like gravy on top to have the ability to make these investments and mature processes and not wear people out. Because, you know, it's been hard personally for people over the last few years. And so hopefully sometimes business was an outlet for them to, uh, you know, refocus. But they're just. There's so many great examples, examples of what our team has come together to do to help continually to evolve over the last five years.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I believe that sales and operations planning, a lot of people, when they're starting their S and op process, they don't appreciate the fact that it helps them to say no. Sometimes. It's not always. The answer is not always yes. Uh, it might be, you know, it might be yes, and this is how we would do that. But sometimes it is, again, the ability to have a business case in front of you that says no, it doesn't make sense, um, either from a volumetric perspective or a financial impact on the business. And sometimes those conversations are harder than the ones that continue to say, yeah, let's do it, let's go for it. So I do think that that's Important. That's great insight as well. When to say no and how to say yes. Maybe is. Is a big piece of that.

Speaker C: Yeah, we say just say no nicely. We have to do it. It doesn't fit our strategy. It doesn't fit the return on investment. So that's definitely a bigger word we've had around here, uh, over the last year, for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Angina. This has been really fantastic. I've enjoyed the conversation. Uh, I'd like to just ask what final thought if you could leave our audience with just one thing. You've done sales and operations planning now in three very different businesses and have built really process and team and rolled out tools and just continue to progress. I know Angie. I know there is an Angie Taylor fan club because I've met many of the team members that you put in place. So still waiting for my membership card. But you have the experience and sometimes the scars to prove it. But let's talk about just, like, one piece of advice for somebody who's at the beginning of this journey. What should they do as they're investing in sales and operations planning and really thinking of it not as firefighting, but as part of the business strategy and the ongoing maintenance, ongoing performance engine, if you will, for their business?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, definitely get started. Like we talked about, it's not going to be perfect. I think creating the baseline of, uh, kind of where are you today? Will help, I think, continue to keep you energized. I love. I'm a metrics person. I love metric. I love seeing the progress. But these processes, because they don't change overnight, sometimes it can feel like you're not making progress. And I love to just create that baseline. Say, okay, kind of here's where we are today, here's where we need to go and make it incremental. Say, you know, in the next six months, we're going to get to here. I mean, have two customers you have a conversation with. You know, um, educate your sales team on why it's so important and how it's going to benefit them. Um, talk to your ops team about what pain point are they feeling. You know, pick something and then slowly, you know, track your results. And, you know, we're on year five, and I look back and I pull up some of the slide decks from the first, you know, education or the first big pitch on. Okay, here's where we're gonna go. Here's the process, and it's like, wow. I mean, that's amazing. You know, what we've been able to accomplish and how, how much we've changed and how much the metrics have changed. But it didn't happen in 30 days and it didn't happen in one year even. I mean, we implemented demand consensus and did that for six months without any tools and picked the top five and got started and then added to them over time. So to look back now, it just gives you such a sense of pride. So I would say just get started and always put people in the room that are way smarter than you. You know, don't ever fear your competition. There are so many smart people out there and having those people that, um, are passionate about it as well, there's nothing worse than trying to toe the rope. And it's like a big old weight at the end of it. You got to surround yourself with people who want that ultimate end game and they understand it and keep pushing through. The last three years have probably been the hardest for, for anyone in supply chain and I think we've built a lot of resilience as big supply chain folk. So there's a lot of great people out there that'll want to come along that ride and help see that transformation. So get started. That's what it is.

Speaker B: I like that. You've got to start somewhere and I'm just going to add to that. Don't expect perfection out of the gate. Just be willing to continue to learn and change and adapt over time. But it is worth the effort. And as you have shown, extending that to include customer collaboration, I think is a really exciting opportunity. So, Angie, thanks so much. This has been a great discussion on leveraging sales and operations planning to drive customer collaboration and really transform business performance. Congratulations to you and the team there at, uh, Plastic Packaging Technologies.

Speaker C: Thank you so much and thank you

Speaker B: for joining us today on TechTalk, where our goal is to help you eliminate the noise and focus on the information and inspiration you need to transform your business and replace risky inventory with valuable insights. We'll see you next time on TechTalk. Powered by supply chain now.