Suzanne Lindsay-Walker - Vice President, Sustainability at Novelis

Speaker A: Today's guest is Suzanne Lindsey Walker. Suzanne is the Vice President of Sustainability at Novelis, the leading sustainable aluminum solutions provider and world leader in aluminum rolling and recycling. In her role, Suzanne leads the development and implementation of the company's global sustainability strategy, including its new initiative, Novelis 3x30. The company set ambitious carbon related sustainability goals for novelis 3x30 and identified priorities to accelerate decarbonization and circularity efforts. Suzanne is also responsible for Novelis corporate social responsibility efforts. Um, welcome to the Sustainable Nation podcast. Our podcast brings you interviews with global leaders in sustainable and regenerative development. Our goal is to provide sustainability professionals, business leaders, academics and anyone who's interested in joining the sustainability revolution with information and insights from the world's most inspiring change makers. I'm your host, founder and CEO of Sustridge Sustainability Consulting, Josh Prigge. Suzanne Lindsay Walker. Welcome to Sustainable Nation. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me Josh. I appreciate it.

Speaker A: Great to have you on. We're looking forward to the discussion. I gave our listeners a little background on your professional life, but tell us a little bit about your personal life and what led you to be doing the work you're doing today.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I am um, a mom and a stepmom first and foremost. Um, and huge, huge soccer fan, so Liverpool to be exact. Um, played soccer all through my life and um, anytime I can get outside with the family, um, I live in Georgia now so North Georgia mountains is a, is a common destination up in Blue Ridge for us. Um, husband is a bass fisherman so we spend lots of time on the lake as well. So just a little background. But um, my uh, sort of professional career I started in Ann, uh, Arbor, Michigan where I grew up for the most part. And um, I'm a civil engineer and spent um, a lot of my, I guess the first decade really um, around land development for big box retailers um, in the Midwest region. And it was difficult at the time to build big box retail in some communities. And I think what is kind of an interesting bridge for me into sustainability was, you know, what was or uh, what would now be called sustainable site design, you know like conservation easements, wetland creations, um, pervious pavement, things like that was new and it was a way for these big box retailers to um, you know, get into planning commission zoning to accept these kind of build outs into their communities. And I think that's really when the light bulb went on to me that I realized that taking a more well rounded approach in land development, um, you know, with environmental and social benefits I think and I've tried to do that in every role that I've had since. And when I moved, you know, I tried to find a job that I could bring all of that to bear but get out of the day to day engineering side of things. And that's when I found myself um, at uh, petsmart. And you know they're the obviously the largest um, specialty retail in the US at the time and they were looking to get um, more and more uh, stores built. And um, and that was really kind of where the merging of my engineering background and then a very real attempt to integrate sustainability or environmental and social aspects into the work that I do on a day to day basis. And I've been off the race, off to the races for my gosh, 18 years now. And uh, I seem to find myself farther and farther upstream as I go.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well that brings us to where you're at today at Novelis. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about your organization for folks uh, who aren't familiar, maybe a little bit about the history of sustainability at that company and uh, your role and what you oversee?

Speaker B: Sure, yeah. So uh, Novelis is um, the largest recycler of aluminum in the world. And um, so we're a manufacturer and we take uh, aluminum scrap and um, introduce it into our recycling facilities and uh, we melt that scrap and then we cast or we make ingots and then we take the ingots and we roll them um, into uh, different kind of sheets or we sell coils. And so what's really cool about Novelis is the more recycled content that you can include into these sheets that you sell, um, the lower the carbon footprint is. And so um, the business is really, it's based on um, you know, it's a circular business model. Right. And I think what's been really, really interesting about our company, we just celebrated 20 years is and we've grown because of this value proposition that we can uh, reduce our customers carbon footprint um, by introducing recycled content into the products that we sell. So to give you an idea who we sell to, um, we serve four main uh, industries and um, our largest is uh, beverage packaging. So can, so you know, usual suspects. Some of the best known global brands such as Coke and AB, InBev and Ball Crown, uh, we also um, sell to the automotive and we've seen a significant increase in automotive due to the EV shift and so trying to lightweight vehicles. So uh, Jaguar, Land Rover, Samsung, um, sorry, Ford, uh, all the usual Tesla, things like that. And then we also have an aerospace business, um, as well and then specialty which is usually um, building and construction materials. And so we've seen this interesting um, material transition. So a lot of big companies are trying to get out of plastic, um, trying to lightweight, you know, out of steel. And so it's been a tremendous opportunity for us to position aluminum, aluminum as um, you know, a low carbon alternative as we try to transition. Uh, and um, a lot of us have these net zero and carbon neutrality goals and uh, aluminum is proving to be a strong enabler in that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I spent several years managing sustainability in the wine industry and still work with many wineries, uh, and have seen some of them move to aluminum, um, some you know, aluminum options. And we, you know, we've seen water, water companies move to aluminum cans. I think general public, you know, is becoming very aware that aluminum is just much easier to recycle. The recycling rates are much higher. But uh, looking at the entire life cycle emissions, I'm wondering if you can, you know, what would your pitch be to a company maybe using plastic and, or glass that are thinking about aluminum. What would you say that the biggest, all those sustainability advantages across the life cycle of a product, uh, of aluminum versus things like plastic and glass?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it starts with that and appreciate you saying the full lifecycle because that's really how we do need to look at it. I think the basis of it is by introducing uh, the, the reuse and recycling. And so when you, when you look at it from an emissions perspective, when you use recycled aluminum, it requires um, 95% less emissions to produce it than it would be if you were to use primary aluminum or virgin aluminum. And so it's a pretty quick, um, you know, pretty quick connect when you, when you speak in terms like that. If it only takes 5% of the energy, um, so when we look at it from bauxite to when it goes out of our factory, um, you know, it's the lowest um, intensity that you can get versus plastic or glass. Um, and so it depends on who your customer is in terms of how they view. Uh, so if you're a beverage manufacturer, they care more about the recycled content, um, than they do necessarily about the uh, CO2 footprint. Now that's changing in um, certainly increasing. But if you're a automotive, they're wanting to get the lightweighting benefits as well as the CO2 footprint down. And so we can provide them pretty um, accurate, in fact very accurate. And we've worked over the last three years since um, we created our global team to really Drive the data integrity. Um, we've got um, LCA experts that are bringing to bear um, the right way to do it. Right. So ensuring that we are looking at the LCAs in a way that provide them and are able to articulate that value proposition in a very clear, concise, incredible way to our customers. And um, I think that's part of the reason why we've seen the significant um, growth because of that value prop that we can provide the recycled content and also the CO2 footprint from an intensity perspective. Now that's in scope three. Right. With scope one and scope two we have our work cut out for us particularly as we um, are in a growth mode. And so when I tell you a little bit about maybe the journey from a strategy perspective, we had 20, 26 goals and it was a 30% absolute reduction target. And we in our recent sustainability report shared that we had a 27% absolute reduction for SCOP 1, 2 and 3 and um, then we've pivoted to this new vision or three by 30, um, where we went from an absolute reduction to an intensity base because of the significant growth that we're seeing so that we can uh, ensure that we're um, being able to reflect the reductions as we continue to grow. So it's been a really cool journey over the last several years at Novelis to zero in on the um, the areas that we can demonstrate both for our customers. But then what we're doing within our own operations to drive down cost and carbon um, within the 31 plants that we have around the world.

Speaker A: Yeah. And as you, as you continue to advance and work towards those goals, your value prop is only going to increase as you continue to reduce uh, emissions in your operations and your value chain. Um, I guess that gap will just continue to widen between what you're able to offer and what the alternatives are. Um, so Novellis 3x30 is a big part of that. Tell me About Novelis 3x30, your global sustainability strategy and would also love to hear how did you develop it and what were some of the key factors you considered and what are the specific uh, goals and targets?

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So um, our three by 30, um, like you said, it's our new sustainability strategy. It's a business strategy to advance a loom. Aluminum, uh, is the material of choice for circular solution and so it sets ambitious um, carbon related sustainability targets to accelerate our decarbonization um, efforts. And um, specifically you know we have three objectives around um, three by 30. One is to be the high. Well how do I say it, um, you know, driving circularity. So across our entire portfolio of products, we want to reach 75% average recycled content content, um, across uh, them with from a base of 63%. So today we're at 63%. But to give you an idea, um, today like the beverage can is somewhere around 80, I would say an average of 85%. Um, so we've got some markets that are very mature m in terms of integrating alloys that have high recycled content. And then there's also um, so the other extreme would be it's around 35% in automotive products and then it's very, very low, like maybe 7% in aerospace. And so when you average that across the entire um, portfolio, uh, it's every percent above that 63% is a Herculean effort because you have to develop the alloys, you have to qualify the alloys, you have to um, bring your customers along, um, along that way. So the goal to get to 75% is not easy, but one that we, you know, we have a plan in place and there's a bit of a stretch in there too, but we're excited about it and driving circ for the industry.

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Speaker B: So all three and it depends on the type of industry. So in the aerospace industry it's a, it's a couple of things. One you can imagine because of the use safety, um, the alloys, the, the performance specs are extremely tight for aerospace. And because of when you're producing the um, the parts for the airplane, there's a lot of machining and so it's very, very difficult, difficult to get back um, scrap that comes out of that where in uh, like the beverage can, the used beverage cans, you can get that back pretty easily. Right. Um, so it's a little bit of, you know, all of that in the unique drivers for each of the different um, streams. In automotive, for example, we've um, we created the, the largest closed loop system um, here in North America with Ford and we've got it now with multiple um, automakers. But what it does is, allows us to get access to the scrap in their production facility. So when they stamp you know, a window out of a door that becomes scrap that's coming directly back to us. We can get access to that scrap in a very direct way. And it um, maintains the um, integrity of that high value aluminum scrap to put back into products that we can then send back to them. Um, with aerospace, as I said it's more difficult to do that. We're trying to figure it out. We've got great partners like Airbus who are piloting and testing um, ways that we can get more scrap back so that we can develop alloys that increase the amount of recycled content. And so all of those things are the different projects and initiatives that are going to help us get to this 75% um, across the portfolio of products by um, 2030. Is that helpful?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that makes uh, that makes sense. Thank you. Um, and then there are two more, two more goals that you have, is that right?

Speaker B: Yes. And so, and because of that increasing recycle content, because it takes 95% less energy to um, produce using secondary aluminum or scrap than primary, it drives um, a low carbon product and there's an, there's another aspect to that which is the primary aluminum. So um, today primary aluminum could be produced um, and it really depends on the source of the energy that is being used to produce it. So in North America for instance, we have the luxury of sourcing hydro based power from Canada which is a very low carbon product. If we're in other parts of the world, it could be as high as um, 20 tons per ton, um, 25 tons per ton even if it's coal based. Um, so really trying to do what we can do to send the demand signal to primary producers because that is a key. So you know to simplify it two key um inputs into our products are the primary aluminum and then the secondary aluminum. So primary is that virgin and then secondary is the scrap. And so we want both low carbon, as low carbon primary as possible when we have to use it. And then we want the greatest amount of high quality scrap that we can get our hands on so that then creates the lowest carbon um product that we can sell to customers. So it's a little bit of both. And we've got projects and initiatives that are going on to um, demonstrate the demand to the primary aluminum industry that we, there's a ton of demand. In fact the First Movers coalition that you might be familiar with um is helping to um, drive that. We want more and more of these primary aluminum producers to invest in um, new technologies and innovations that are going to continue to drive down the emissions associated um with their production. Um, and then at the same time trying to get our hands on as much scrap as possible so that we can continue to drive down the CO2 footprint of the total product. The last um goal is really, it's a um financial goal and it's really about continuing to lead the industry um through first mover investments. And so um, here in the US we we've got you know a multibillion dollar um you know best in class plant that's being built in Alabama. Ah that should be operational around I think it's ah FY27. Um but again trying to, because of this growth and because of the sustainability attributes of aluminum, um, you know we saw that we wanted to increase the capacity here in the US to fulfill that demand and um, so again continuing to, to lead through first Mover investments in a way that they're um, economically sound. And so I think what's interesting about our goals is that you know it has to be a balance between all three. Right? And that's the dance that we do on a daily daily basis is it's got to have the right business case. Um and it's also in order to meet the needs of our customers. But we want to be a highly circular company, a low carbon company and doing it in a way that's going to fuel the future. Um, and so that's really the vision behind three by 30 and um, you know and it's something that has gotten you know our employee base really, really excited and all. You know we've got a transformation office, we've got um, you know, all of the very, very targeted initiatives to support this effort and we've got the entire company behind um doing this and doing it in a way that is uh, credible and we want to, to do it faster than we've ever done it before. So it's very, very exciting for us. And I think we're doing it on the basis um demonstrated um story you know with the, the amount of reductions that we've seen already and continuing to push it and really you know push the bounds on circularity. So uh, we're well poised to do it. It's not going to be easy but um, it's kind of why we you know, especially in my role as sustainability leader, it's why I do what I do because it's um, entirely worthwhile and it's incredible to be a part of an organization that thinks um, about sustainability on a day to day basis.

Speaker A: That's wonderful. And I think uh, of course collaboration is going to be critical to drive this in your industry. I'm wondering stakeholders that you need to collaborate with, whether it's industry peers, government customers, other organizations, what does that look like as far as collaboration with others to advance these goals?

Speaker B: Yeah, and that you're exactly right. It's, it's not only it's collaboration within every business unit within our company, but then also building an ecosystem of collaborative partners outside of Novelis. And um, I think you know, you named, I don't think there's any that you named that we aren't participating um with you know obviously our customers. First and foremost we activate uh through the associations that we're a part of. Um we work a lot with um venture and um global platforms like FMC where you're bringing multiple um, you know, actors along the value chain. Um we also look to a lot of academic institutions to help us think through some of the innovations and what can they bring to the table. We work with over 100 different academic uh, institutions and so there's a lot of different places and spaces that we're trying to surround ourselves with an ecosystem that's going to help support, support um the decarbonization of the um aluminum industry. And um, it's a lot um but I think they all bring a unique perspective and value prop that we have to leverage um in order to get to the goals that we want to get to. There's no way we do this alone and I think what's interesting about this time right now is I've been doing this for 18 years and I've always said collaboration is key, but the time is now. You don't do any of this without it. And um, we're building those right partnerships. We're building the right um, you know, sitting in the right global platform, sitting, um, choosing the customers that are uh, that we want to work with because they have goals that they want to accomplish in a very real way. So um, it's a very diverse group of stakeholders and we manage them in a um, you know, in best way that we can in terms of having the right people at the different tables so that we can bring the perspective and then listen as well. Um, we need to understand kind of their perspective along the way. And um, again we don't get anywhere uh, without having the right partnerships in place to drive this stuff.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And then you mentioned the other key important stakeholder to really engage is internally the employees. How do you go about ensuring employees are aware of these goals and how important they are and how do you get them engaged and build that culture, um, to break down silos and really engage across the organization to work towards these goals?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think um, what's unique about Novelis is that sustainability has always been a part of the business strategy. It's just now done in a much more clear, concise and um, clear goals externally. And um, when we launched 3 by 30, it was a very very intentional, um, it sounds so corporate but very, very intentional set of communications to try and drill it down into each of our four regions and then from the regions into the functions and then the functions into the day to day down to the plant level. And um, we're only a few months into this and so it's going to take some time I think to, to get it. But at the end of the day this is about inspiring our, our workforce. This is about um, creating the opportunity for, for people to marry their passion and the work that they do on a day to day basis. And that's why people come to Novelis is to do just that. Um, so I spend a lot of my time, I have a stakeholder engagement lead who um, you know, on a day to day basis she is trying to educate and inspire. Um, we do, you know, webinars, we pick topics, we um, have green teams, we uh, have created all kinds of tools and what I would call toolboxes of enablers so that people can um, truly understand what does it mean to get to 75% and what can they do on a day to day basis with what they do to make that connection? It's not easy. It's a huge change management, um, aspect. But if you can connect hearts and minds in a way, um, and early and often, then half of it is done. Like just getting the willingness of people to participate, understand what it is that we're trying to drive and that we're all headed in the same direction. And it's pretty powerful to be a part of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, plenty to keep you busy. It sounds like Suzanne. Um, um, but, uh, very, very interesting and exciting work that you're doing. Um, we're starting to run out of time, so we're going to jump into our final five questions if you're ready. Sure. All right. What is one piece of advice you would give other sustainability professionals that might help them in their careers?

Speaker B: I would say ah, when you hear no, and you will hear no, often take it as no, not right now. I think what I found, um, in my career is that, um, some good ideas usually take six months to a year or even more, um, to seed. But to keep at it, um, keep planting the seeds, keep watering them, because business cases and attitudes will evolve over time. And um, you know, I'm a bit of a bulldog and I don't let things die. So I'll just keep pounding away at things until I can find an opening. And sometimes you just have to be patient, but keep at it.

Speaker A: What are you most excited about right now in the world of sustainability?

Speaker B: You know, I was just having this conversation with um, one of my employees and um, just how many opportunities there are in this space, like how many jobs are available, um, and opportunities for young people to, you know, drive positive impact in, in their everyday work lives. And I think that so much of, um, what I see coming into the workforce of people that want to work for a company, uh, that they can do just that. And there's so many jobs available, which I think is amazing. And that to me is exciting because we need as many advocates and people that want to drive that positive impact, um, as we can get because we have a long way to go before 2050 hits.

Speaker A: Absolutely. What is one book you would recommend sustainability leaders read?

Speaker B: Oh, gosh, I'm such a nerd. Um, I'm not much of a book nerd, but I love, um, reading a lot of white, um, papers and things like that. But I'll tell you one that I read early on and um, and it's kind of old school, but it was strategy, um, for Sustainability by Adam Warbach. And he kind of crystallized for me, um, the business of sustainability in a very real way for me at a time when I was trying to, When I worked at Kroger, when I was trying to think through the strategy there. And, um, the examples and things that he brought together, I think at its highest level is still a frame that can work today. Now, there's been, that's many, many years ago, but, uh, it's always one that I go back to.

Speaker A: What are some of your favorite resources or tools that really help you in your work?

Speaker B: Um, I get a lot of daily digests and updates, um, so from Trellis or Green Biz, um, I get all the digests from wbcsd wef. I try to consume as much as I can, um, in those formats, uh, because, you know, you do have to have a job to do. But I also like to keep a pulse on what's going on. And I find that having that stuff delivered to you, um, on a daily basis allows me to kind of keep, uh, the pulse of what's going on. And, uh, yeah, I enjoy reading them.

Speaker A: And finally, where can our listeners go to learn more about you and the work being done at Novellis?

Speaker B: Oh, I would love for people to check out, um, our, um, 2024 sustainability report. We launched it several months ago, but it, um, really tries to tell all the good stories and the proof points, um, of what we're trying to accomplish here. And, Yeah, I think novelis.com is where you can find it.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Susanna, so great to dive into all this wonderful work. It's always fascinating. Every talk to retailers, then we talk to consumer product good companies selling to those retailers, and then we talk to suppliers of those product companies like yourself. Um, and just hearing all across the value chain, all these amazing things happening and a lot of exciting things, uh, that you're doing there. So thank you so much, Suzanne, for joining us and thank you for making the world a better place.

Speaker B: Thank you, Josh. I appreciate it. Have a great day.

Speaker A: Well, that's it for this episode of System Sustainable Nation. We'd love to hear from you. If you have feedback on the show, have ideas for future guests, or have questions you'd love to hear us ask, email them to joshustustridge.com and if you enjoyed the content we're delivering, we would be so grateful if you would subscribe, rate and review our podcast. Thank you and we'll see you next time.