Human Connection in AI Buzz Everywhere

Speaker A: Welcome, everybody, to Stepping into youo Leadership. I'm your host, Christine Courtney, and I'm thrilled today to be back in the studio with one of the most interesting, fun, great people to work with, and that is Erica Petrelli. Bye. Many of you know her. She was the winner, by the way, of our hundredth episode podcast, Best Tip that she brought In. If you did not listen to that one, you'll get to hear more of her. But she's in. She's a regular facilitator for us. She's worked with hundreds and hundreds of companies, thousands and thousands of people. She's one of the best managers I've ever seen. And a little side note, which makes it interesting for today's conversation to me personally, is she was really the first person in our, in our office, as a team, to start working remotely. And so she was the first example, way before, way before COVID or anything, where she kind of had to be a pioneer on this path of remote work and also figuring out how to continue to make connection with all of us and all of her coworkers, all of her direct reports, all of her colleagues in a time where the Internet was much less than it is today, um, in terms of what it could do. But with that, I just want to kind of bring you a little bit into what our topic is today. So I want you, everybody out there to think about the last time you felt truly connected at work. You know, you know, not just productive, not just efficient, but really seen, really heard, really part of something where you felt that your presence there made a big difference in terms of what the outcomes were. Now you have that thought, hopefully in mind, hopefully you could think of something. Now think about how much of your work today happens through screens, through systems, through increasingly an AI world. And there's a lot of good with that. I am, I am 100% an advocate for using AI to make our lives easier, our jobs easier. But we are starting to feel a little bit of this friction or fear, right?

Speaker B: We're.

Speaker A: We're living in this moment where technology is accelerating everything, our speed, our output or access. But there's one thing that we know we can't replicate yet, and that's the feeling of being understood by another human being. Although I do think that my, my Claude and my chatgpt try to understand me pretty well, but it is something quite different when it's human, right? So here's the tension that we keep coming back to as AI gets better, and it does. It keeps getting better at doing our work. The Human part of our work becomes even more valuable. Right. That's what we're hearing. We're hearing that people need the better that their paperwork gets. And the way that they look on the page, people don't quite trust it. They want to see who you are, who you show up in real life. And so what we want to talk about is, are we investing enough in that at the same pace that we're investing in AI? Uh, are we investing in how we intentionally design our connections? So I am joined by Erica Petrelli Bai, who brings such a thoughtful perspective on how we show up, how we connect, how we stand out, especially in increasingly digital and remote environments. So this conversation is. Is about more than connection, though. It's about influence. It's about trust and what it actually takes to lead and collaborate in a world where efficiency is rising. But belonging might be a little bit at risk. And we're going to try to help that. So. Hi, Erica.

Speaker B: Hi. So good.

Speaker A: So good.

Speaker B: Such a great topic for right now.

Speaker A: Uh, so let's just get your frame for it. Like, when you think about the rise of AI in remote work, where do you see connection maybe getting lost the most?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's such an interesting one, and I think there's not an easy answer. And it's not cut and dry or black and white. This is right and this is wrong. This is good and this is bad. So that in and of itself is frustrating for a lot of people. It can be tempting or easy to say, for example, and AI is bad, remote work is less effective. And I just don't think that that's true. I think there's a lot of nuances. And I think with intentionality, remote work, for example, can be as connecting and as impactful as in person. You just might have to work a little harder. You have to be more creative. And again, like I said, you have to be intentional with those connections that, in the office might come without even any thought because you run into each other. For example, AI is something that can be a helpful and power companion to work that you're already doing, but if you let it do the work for you, then it becomes a, uh, it does a disservice to your work and drives disconnection because people don't trust the content that you're putting out because they've lost you in it. So I think we're navigating really complex times where there's neither good nor bad. There's just a greater need for intentional, thoughtful, careful connection and effort.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, you know, that's such a good point. I have so many things that I want to ask you about based on that, but before we get there, because I just don't want to start on the negative of like what people are losing. What are you noticing in leaders or teams that you work with who are getting this right? What are. What are you noticing about them?

Speaker B: Well, specific to remote connection as an example, or AI. Do you care where we start? Or both.

Speaker A: Yeah, both. Whatever you think, Whatever.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, that's your boat.

Speaker A: We have a lot of people out there who listen, who, who do work either hybrid or remotely. And so I think it is helpful for them. But then we also have. Obviously everybody's at, uh, different, different points in their AI journey, right? Yeah, Some people are just getting on, some people are like way beyond. They're creating, you know, bots that are doing, you know, basically assistance for them in their life. So anyway.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think that there is the short answer here, that the leaders that are doing it well or the teams that are in this uncertainty are the ones that are embracing it as this is the way and there's a lot of opportunity. As opposed to what you just said is as opposed to immediately jumping to, well, this is terrible. This is obviously a problem and so let's fix the problem with it. So they move right into that mode and that drives. It drives the very thing they're trying to avoid, which is disconnected and disconnection and distrust. So the leaders that are doing it, well, let's say for the. In the remote or hybrid landscape, are saying, aha. Uh-huh. Here's a greater opportunity to get the most out of my entire team because I can be more flexible than I've ever been before in terms of their needs, their geographical location, different scheduling situations. We can actually flex in a way that we couldn't do before the remote landscape was so prevalent. And we can maximize each individual team member's productivity, therefore benefiting the company. The other thing that they're doing well is understanding that remote connection. So a remote meeting, a remote one on one must have the same kind of dynamic that an in person meeting would have. At an in person meeting, you're going to start with some casual chit chat and connecting. You might have some music playing, you're going to have these human connection moments that the leaders that are doing it well remotely remember that those elements are really important, so they're going to infuse those in the remote landscape too, as opposed to somebody that's not doing it as well. Says we're hopping on a zoom. Let's get down to business. Abcd. Who cares about your cameras? See y' all later. And then you're like, well, that didn't feel good at all. And probably could have just been an email. Why did we have to even meet if we weren't going to connect or see each other? So it's in that arena of utilizing it as. It's just another way to be together. But we're still intentionally being together, so let's make sure we're tending to that part of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's so true. I mean, when you say that, I feel immediately guilty, right. Because we all do versions of that because we're busy people and we're like, okay, let's just get. You know, we kind of prioritize efficiency over connection often. Right.

Speaker B: I agree. And I think that might be fine in the short term. I think it is to the detriment in the long term. M. Because one or two instances of we're just moving fast and getting stuff done is fine and to be expected in our lives. But repeatedly, you start to lose any sort of greater. Why. Why am I connected to this person? Why am I connected to this organization? Does what I'm doing matter at all? And that kind of sort of silo feeling can lead to isolation or. Or disconnection in a way that. That's what I think is a contributing factor to people leaving or maybe their productivity diminishing to just enough to get by. What's the bare minimum I can do to be seen as doing my job well?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting if we. If we stay on this idea of remote work. Right. It's interesting because some people are doubling down on that and going completely remotely, saving money, space or whatever. Right. And. And having their employees work remotely. Others, you know, uh, especially. I've noticed a big uptake in the past year, but with a lot of companies are completely bringing employees back to work. Right. Or at least it requiring them to be in the office four days a week or sometimes three days a week now, where that wasn't the case before. And why do you think that leaders are opting for that? Why? What do you think might be that. I know we don't have any research of our own, but, like, what do you think?

Speaker B: But I think. I think one thing that can happen is a leader can. It's a version of panicking. Right. How we were successful in the past was we worked in a thriving office and there was a lot of energy and activity and that model is familiar and has been familiar for decades and decades and decades. And so I want to get back to that known, that comfortable known a time when we were all in the office and we were productive and profitable and successful, whatever that looks like. So I think it's a default, it's a default mechanism to say that worked in the past, so that's what we need to do now, which I think is potentially a mistake. It's a, uh, very. At the very least, I would say pause and make sure you're thoughtfully considering why you're calling everyone back. Are you calling everyone back because the team works in such collaborative ways that they actually have to be together in the majority of their tasks and projects, in which case being in the same room is effective because I need to talk to you and then go talk to that person and all of the work drives via collaboration and connection. In those instances, it probably does make sense for a lot of, uh, time in the office. However, if I'm a company where there's a lot of independent work, these things, maybe once a week or even once a month, we connect. Do they really need to be in the office three days a week, or does it just feel comfortable to me as the leader to see them? I would invite the latter to leaders to give maybe second thought to why. What's the greater why? If it's driving productivity in a real way, not in a perceived way. If it's driving productivity in that we need to work together so we need to be in conversation, then yes, it makes sense to start to shift back to the in person model. What Covid did was give us the opportunity to blow that old model up entirely. That was no longer an option. And so, you know, it's always good when, when old options are taken away from us, we can just go back to the old way when the old way returns as an option, or we can use it as an opportunity to say, huh, I didn't even think we could function without that old model. But look at what we just did in crisis now it's a clean slate. What do I, what would I craft in the ideal model? And that's why I think there's a lot of hybrid. So I think, anyway, I think whatever, there's no right or wrong answer, but the wrong way to find your answer is just a default to what's known.

Speaker A: All right, so a lot of people can't control this, right? So a lot of people that are listening, they're not the decision makers in it, but they, they can control how they connect. And so what are some. What's your advice? And let's just stay right now with this idea of either remote or hybrid work. What's your advice for making your connection as strong as possible? Um, in that when you're looking at people, maybe through a screen or you don't see them as much, how do you make up for that? How do you get that human connection there? What are some things?

Speaker B: This is really an important question because it does require extra. In the remote or hybrid environment, when you're in separate spaces, you can't rely on. We're in the same proximity, so we feel connected or we walk past each other, so we say hello, or I, uh, inquire about your children, whatever it might be. And so it absolutely. On both ends. So if you're the leader and you have a direct report that's somewhere two states away, it requires it on you and the worker that's two states away, it requires it on their end too. So it's both. It's nobody. It's not just anybody's job, it's everybody's job to be extra communicative. So that might look like things that you would never think to do in an in person office setting. Sending an email, a good morning email just to check, or a direct message if you're on teams or whatever. It is just a, hey, good morning, how's your day? Hey, it's a beautiful day. Good morning. It's that thoughtfulness of, let me check in with this person on a random Wednesday. How's the week going? Are you feeling overwhelmed? Do you need anything? So it's pausing to say, what are the things that would normally happen without me thinking about it and let me actually pick up the phone or DM or email to do those things. If you're a remote worker and feeling a little bit like, what's going on? It requires you to check in with your supervisor to say, hey, I want to make sure I'm in the loop. Hey, let me know if I can join this meeting. So it requires that extra communication and a little bit of extra advocacy because out of sight, out of mind is a real phenomenon that is not malicious at all. Most of the time, right out of sight, out of mind is just, we're all very busy and we are running through our day and running through our tasks and we forget to be as thoughtful as we should be in the remote landscape. So putting it on your calendar as a meeting or you know, that kind of block time of checking in with your remote staff, whatever Tricks that you can do to make sure that it becomes part of your intentional activity. I think is really important because there is a.

Speaker A: Some people use, um. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. But some people use like, um, slack, for instance, or other versions of things that are like slack. And that's a great way, too, just to be on there. Like, instead of it constantly being just like, work questions or things, just to take a moment to share something about yourself or, you know, there's a. There's a lot of people, as I say this, that I know are like, oh, God, don't do that. Um, because they feel like their Slack channels are already so full. But it is. It is important. I've gotten those email messages from you in the past.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it is nice. Another thing you reminded me of is that, you know, we have a, um. I have a woman that works for me, and it's so nice because she is remote. And when she sends me, she'll regularly send me, like. Like, this is what I'm working on this week. Here's what I need from you. Oh, my God. It's so refreshing. Right? Because we are all busy and we are doing these things. And I think when the person is not in front of you all the time, it's very easy to get wrapped up in the game of eternal whack. A mole that we're playing with. All the other things we have to do. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah, that's a cool practice.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Here's what I'm doing. Here's what I might need help with. Just letting you know so you don't have to ask for it. And they can feel like they're proactively keeping you up to date. That's a really good one.

Speaker A: Yeah. And just as. It also just makes me relax, like, okay, yeah, she's working, she's pushing things forward that I don't have to be worried about this. And so it frees up some of my Control those centers in your brain that give you a little bit of anxiety around, like, is this happening that's kind of quietly in the background? Um, that can take up a lot of stress or, you know, help asleep. And, you know, you think about it right before you go to bed or something. The other thing I thought was interesting that some of our folks did on our team and they just re kind of reinvigorated it recently is they call it. On Fridays, they do what they call a morning mix. And somebody puts it up there. It's not run by a, uh, by anybody's boss or anything. It's just open to everybody in the company. Anybody can come or not come. They get on there and they say hello, and they share things inevitably, like, you know, whatever's happening in life, but they also work stuff comes up regularly. I got, uh. When I've gone onto those, I'm like, oh, that was good. I showed up to that. Because you don't know what's going to get created by who's ever in the room. It really is that from that Hamilton quote, you know, being in the room where it matters, you know, is very important. And when they do that morning mix, it's like an hour and they all are working on other things. So it's not like they're just sitting there waiting for somebody to do something. Like they're all working, but they have their cameras open and they're just also connecting as if. As we used to do in an open plan office, you know, kind of between the cubicles.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then the other thing I thought of when you said, um, you know, that showing up is so valuable. You know, there's a Harvard Business Review HBR article that I was looking at again, talking about the new version of executive presence. Uh, and one of the things that is new in, you know, in the past five years or so is this idea of showing up and whether that's turning your cameras on.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or whether that's being in the room, that people know you're there. And that is something that they didn't use to define as something that was important in executive presence. You know, it used to be like, you're really tall or you're whatever. Like you have a deep voice presence.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: The way you dress, you know, but now it's like, no. Are you. Are you turning your camera on your press? Yeah, exactly. So I thought that was interesting, you know, because even, um, we know a guy. You'll know exactly who I'm talking about when I say this, but I won't say his name, but he's, um. We work in a lot of different schools in the city. And it always cracked me up because I would sometimes tag along with him to some of these schools. And I knew his schedule. So he would. He maybe had, you know, six, eight schools that he worked with, but he would go in or more. He would go into those schools and they would think he worked there full time because he would be like, make such a big presence out of his one afternoon there that he would know everybody's names from the security guards to the admin assistants to the teachers, he'd give high fives, whatever. They thought he had a desk somewhere in that building. They just didn't know where it was. And I just thought, oh, my God, how? And, uh, I watched it happen, and I thought, this is interesting. And then it happened in the next place and the next place. And I thought, what an interesting way to make connection. So intentional, so quick, so big that you can kind of make up for time, you know, really incredible.

Speaker B: It's so important. I, uh, think we. We just continuously underestimate the power of that kind of simple connection. Knowing the name, knowing something about their life, just that moment to, uh, inquire about their day. We, especially in the face of extraordinary busyness in our schedules, we let that stuff go, thinking, what difference could it possibly make? I always say that, you know, people say, oh, what difference could it possibly make that I ask about your day or ask about how your child's doing at college or whatever it might be. And then you watch someone like that who knows enough and takes the time, and you see the power of that. You see how that those small moments added up, ripple to incredible executive presence and the power of feeling. You know, you and I talk a lot about the power of. And the importance of feeling seen, heard, and valued in any relationship, but when we talk about cultivating impactful workplaces, we are talking about leaders who know to make their staff feel seen, heard, and valued. And every day and every week and every month, every quarter are looking at, what am I doing to make that so. And it's not a small measure to start by turning on your camera or asking about your recent surgery or whatever it might be that, you know, those add up to big results.

Speaker A: Okay? So I love these practical tools, right? So she's giving us some quick, uh, connection habits, so to speak, that people can start using immediately. So one is, if you don't have your camera on, figure out a way that you can get your camera on. You can blur out your background, all these things. Now, these are baby steps to, uh, connection. But what is. What are a couple other quick connection habits, so to speak, that people can start using immediately?

Speaker B: Well, yes, turn your camera on, particularly if you're the leader. I mean, the rest of the staff, if they're not, have them just say in the chat, I was doing a workshop the other day, and a bunch of people. It just happened that it was during a lunch hour, essentially. So a bunch of people were like, so sorry, off camera, grabbing some soup or grabbing my lunch. That's wonderful because you're still engaging in the chat. But, uh, especially if you're the leader, for heaven's sake, or if it's a one on one and there's just two of you, turn your cameras on. If you can't have your cameras on, reschedule it for a time when you can start all of your meetings with some kind of conn. Whether it's a fun connecting question. You know, we have a ton of those that we love. Even just a, uh, kind of roses and thorns or highs and lows for the day. But make sure you start your meeting with a connection. Make sure you end your meeting with clear and tangible. Here's what we decided, here's what I'm gonna do, and here's what you're gonna do. Here's what's happening next. It's those extras and bookending meetings with connecting first and making sure there's clarity at the end really helps people. You talked about that idea of your staff member who's always kind of proactively updating you. The ease that that causes, even if it's an unconscious level of ease, there's not that nagging in the back of your brain. That's true for everyone, uh, at the end of a meeting, they want to, they don't want to be leaving, being like, am I supposed to, Is there something I'm supposed to be doing? So in the arena of meetings, there's a lot of impact you can have with very small tweaks in the way you handle your agenda. Handle your agenda, like have, even if it's in your own mind, treat it with the respect. Even if it's a remote meeting, treat it with the respect that it deserves.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I always do this little trick for myself in that I kind of figure out like about how much money is at stake in this meeting in terms of just the people's time and am I making it, uh, enough of value to make up for that time of pulling us together. And if the answer is no, I either need to cancel that meeting or I need to think about how am I going to do that. And sometimes just connecting. Right. Makes people. If people feel connected to your organization, they will also stay there longer. So that is valuable. It's just a matter of making time for that. Right. Including. I'll just give a plug for your 52 Ways to Connect deck on Amazon. That has 52 cards on good.

Speaker B: Check.

Speaker A: Quick fun check. Ins. People always love that. When I have that at keynote speeches. I do. I give those away as contest Prizes. So people love that. Um, so let's, let's shift a little bit away from remote work. Although it's related, but let's talk a little bit about AI. And there's so many wonderful things that AI does for us now. And when I talk about that, I'm talking about agentic AI. I'm talking about whether you're using, you know, Gemini or Claude or ChatGPT or any of the myriad of things, we're noticing that more and more people are using them to get their writing and their, their, you know, that kind of communication improved. Right. And quicker. But what do you notice about how do we keep ourselves very human? I'll tell you a funny story. I was working with a client and they said they had all these interns and the intern, they always give their interns every summer a project. And the interns came back to them with these, the most amazing written work on the project. Questions, right? Really deep insight, deep research. And he goes, I, I, this is a partner in the organization. He says, listen, I read these, these papers at these interns, and I thought, oh my God, they're, these are better than most of our, you know, senior people. And he said, I called them in to be like, wow, we have, you know, we have a bunch of genius. You're brilliant. So he brings them in, he goes, wow, this was so insightful. Like, what is what. Tell me a little bit more about what, what you went into here, because this is interesting. The kids looked at each other and then looked at him. Uh, went, we don't know what any of this means, but I love is that they were so honest. We don't know what any of this means. We just went to ChatGPT and the partner was like, oh, uh, my God, you know, nothing. And they're like, oh, we don't know any of it. You know, that's why we're interns. So anyway, he's, he looked at me and he goes, what the heck? Like, I can't have people like that fools you. And I said, yeah, our leadership is going to have to change because in this world, you cannot always trust that the information that someone's putting out is what is a real indicator of what they actually digest. With many people, it is with many people, they are just using it to pull together their own thoughts or pull together things. But in some cases that was, you know, it could also be that. So how, how do we in this world make, keep human connection at the forefront? You know, Any thoughts on that?

Speaker B: So many thoughts. First, like Even with, I said with remote work, we, it's, it's a, it's a futile and wasteful use of our energy to rally against and, and say, this is such a terrible thing, we have to stop it because it's here and it's not going away. So it's, it, you know, it doesn't, I don't think it behooves us to be like, well, you know, this evil thing. Instead, it's like, no, how are we going to work with it? So to your example, one very obvious place is if you're in the space of education or in this case, like checking your intern's knowledge, writing is not the way to test that because writing is going to oftentimes go through the funnel of AI. So if you want to test knowledge, you do that in conversation and you do that in a critical thinking conversation. And you ask for personal experiences about. I, uh, have an online course that I am an instructor of, and that's always my thing of I want to hear your personal stories because I don't need you to recite or regurgitate textbook knowledge that you then funneled through AI just to tell me an answer that's correct. That's boring. Forget if it's actually, I mean, put aside for a moment that it's not helping you learn. It's just boring. What helps me see that you're digesting the information is that you're connecting it to personal stories or, or telling me examples in your own life. And so I think in your partner's case, to get the interns in to be talking about personal experiences, asking questions. In the end, if you're trying to test knowledge, if you're trying to make a flashy, you know, LinkedIn post or flyer and you just want to sum up something, then, sure, let the AI do the work. But even that, I don't know if you found this to be true, but even that I found people are getting, are being much too lazy and, and they are forgetting. From my perspective, you use your artificial intelligence of choice as a creative companion, a brainstorming partner, a way to get bullets, to get, you know, kind of a anchor, and then you put yourself in it. So you begin and you end in the mix. Like you're the, you're the start and you're the end. Your artificial intelligence might support you in the middle. And how many posts online? Like, uh, I won't even read them because I'm like, Nope, it's entirely AI.

Speaker A: It's so true. LinkedIn is going to Go down if people don't start making their own posts. Yeah, I think LinkedIn was going to go the way of the dinosaur. That is my prediction.

Speaker B: Boring. You can, you can tell from the start if somebody hasn't. I don't mind if again, like, use it to support what you're trying to say. Absolutely. If you don't insert yourself in there, you know, um, and there's so many tells nowadays that are just, just, my

Speaker A: God, there's so many. Because it's all written the same way. People sound the same, right?

Speaker B: And so, and they're so long and so. And so what happens is I see that I skip it, I don't even read it. And there might be something that's really valuable in there, but I missed it because it wasn't a human. And so I'm not connecting with it. So I think it's, it's. I don't think using artificial intelligence is a bad thing. And I don't think it, it matters if I did think it was a bad thing because it's here. And I think it's really important that, especially with our younger folks that we are, it's our responsibility to try to help ourselves, but also to help them understand, to use their own critical thinking and discernment, to use their own voice and their own examples so that they're using it as a companion, not a replacement. Because otherwise, yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be less and less and less and less effective because people are like, no thanks, I don't. This isn't you, so why should I care to read it?

Speaker A: No, it's so true. I've been finding that. And I think that that's also true. I think LinkedIn is one place. And um, I'm starting to see people having the same kind of fatigue, ah, a little bit of AI fatigue in terms of like, if other bots are reading the work, great. But the problem is we humans have to get through it. And um. So yeah, I think that's one thing. I think the other piece is even in the work that you do at work. How are you using your AI tools even to make this more you? And how are you making sure that you're looking at it? I mean, I talked to somebody who, they had to fire someone because it was, ah, a reviewer. And a reviewer did not clearly watch one of the shows it was supposed to watch. And um, there's some reader in some little town somewhere in the world that went, uh, this person did not read this, did not Watch this show. You know, there are things like that that you have to understand. Like, that can happen anywhere, and you really have to read what is right, even if it's at work. And because it can make up stuff, but also it is, at the very least, is it going to sound like you? And at the worst, it can be wrong.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So I do think there are, uh, There. That's important.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker A: And it's not about tricking people. I think it's about how does this make people connect to you or not? Because right now, in those, when I'll use LinkedIn as an example, when those LinkedIn posts went up, and I'm guilty of it too, I was like, this is fantastic. It wrote this great thing for me, and you put it up, and then you're like, this is wonderful. And then you start seeing the same version of things over and over and over again, and now it is no longer authentic to you. That's right. And so I think the same thing is true at work, authentically be you in whatever connection that is. And when is the right time to use AI to polish your stuff, to make you think deeper. I thought it was interesting you said that. You said you should be on the front and the end and the AI's in the middle. I almost think for me, and I happen to think this might have to do with your working genius, but for me, I sometimes like it on the beginning. And then I'll use it, um, in the. I'll be the person in the middle, discerning it, changing it, you know, stuff like that, and then put it back to them at the end for a polish. Like here, you know, can you edit this? I think it depends on where you kind of come in. Are you the person who loves to come up with ideas? Are you the person who likes to discern them? Are you the person who likes to, you know, get it down to bullets? How can that AI help you in terms of what. Where you are strong and where you need a little bit of, of, uh, help. But it should be you. I also think another way that you said, and I want to hear your talk, your, uh, thoughts on this, because you said that we can no longer use writing, even educators, as a way to know if someone. Yeah, I don't even think they're going to do college essays anymore. I mean, I think that's going to go the way because, like, I think it's going to be all video interviews, just like, you know what I mean? It's going to be. And so we're going to, we're all going to have to present a lot more our thoughts. And I think that's going to put more emphasis on in person connection more than ever. And by in person it could also be remote, but you're live in person talking. Any thoughts about that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, and I, I think I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. And I was thinking even with writing the write, the writing has to happen in the classroom while you're like in old fashioned pen and paper sort of way. Just like, you know, it's just, it's just the, it's such a greater conversation than you and I have any, you know, ability to influence. But this idea of how much has to shift in old systems that simply no longer work with the reality of today. And so much in education is that. And again, in this case, instead of fighting or how many stories have you heard or maybe experienced yourself with the young people in your life of young people actually writing really great stuff and instructors accusing them of using AI and them not really having an ability to a. It's a he said, she said. It's a very difficult moment on, on a lot of different ways. There's the, there's those of us that would put in writing that we didn't have anything to do with and let AI do all the work. And then when asked about it, I don't know anything about that, AI just did it for me. And then on the other end of that extreme is I actually took a lot of time and thought in this essay and it's so good that you're questioning whether I actually wrote it. And it's uh, a, it's just a really murky area. So we can continue to fight that or we can say written work is a tricky landscape. And so are there ways to do this differently in person conversation, whatever it might be?

Speaker A: Yeah, I talked to a leader yesterday. I was in Louisville, Kentucky and he was telling me that, um, he had a son who was in the workforce and he was watching him work on some work for work on his laptop and he was using all sorts of different AI tools and you know, going back and forth. And he said, he was retelling me the story and he said, you know, I told him, I said, stop this, this is crazy. You need to be able to do this stuff on your own. Like, you can't create these bots to do all this stuff. And the kid looked at him and goes, dad, they want us to do this. They're requiring. It is part of A requirement of our job that we do this. And he was like, like, all right, what do I know?

Speaker B: All right, go ahead.

Speaker A: And, uh, he looked at me, goes, I gotta get some training. And this guy is an owner. I mean, he owns the company, but his son doesn't work at his company. But I was just like, wow. Fascinating, right? Because I do think that the best teachers, and we both work in education, like poor teachers, I mean, they really are having to learn this and are held to a much higher standard than anybody on how to do this. And the reality is that the teachers are. An education system is going to have to understand that these kids are going to be required and already are required to use these tools in school. So let's start using them within education. But it's hard to do that in real time and still know that you're educating kids, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, it's funny as you're talking, oh, uh, my gosh. We've been talking about a version of this for decades, decades, which is not AI, but a version of this which is we need to prepare our students for jobs that don't even exist right now. You know, and that's more true than ever before. The jobs that they'll be doing are jobs that we can't even conceive of in our imagination, or the jobs that we've historically been training them for are jobs that will no longer be available because they're either done by AI or it. You know, it's so rapidly changing. We've been talking about this that's true as a reality for decades.

Speaker A: When the Internet started, when any new

Speaker B: thing, we're like, well, we gotta. And so. But I think the answer has, has always been and remains true that all of us, what we equip humans with is critical thinking and problem solving and collaboration and the ability to work in a team and the ability to have emotional intelligence, which funnily enough intersects us right back with the remote work conversation, because it's not about the technical ability. So in this, it's not about the technical ability to write a really good paragraph on my own without the help of Claude. It's about my ability to use discernment and to collaborate with humans. And so I think for educators, as much as is in their control, it's the same as with CEOs, is how am m I cultivating environment where my team or my class can utilize those skills, and how am I creating environments where those skills are fostered? And I'm not judging them merely on the technical output for example.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, great. So what are some. As we close up today? Because this is obviously a huge topic that we got to keep coming back to, but I love where you just went there with it. How do we give people some quick tips on how to create, keep that human connection and make it just as strong. And you mentioned some bigger things in terms of, you know, your emotional intelligence, in terms of critical thinking, in terms of like how you, how you get along with people. Some of those team build, real team building skills. What are some ways that people can grow that within their organ, their own organizations?

Speaker B: Well, I mean that's uh. Think of the human first and the task second always. And so what does that mean for you? Might be different from what that means for me, but I think if you have that as your guiding question. Am I thinking of the human first and not the task first? That's an automatic help because it helps me from getting too busy to remember those connecting moments and so, and remember the larger why and the overarching goal that we're trying to achieve together so that we have our eyes on the bigger purpose and picture as opposed to again the like technical how are we getting there things. That's, I mean that's not a. Here's an immediate actionable thing. But I think that's an important point in this of how are we, how are we connecting as humans towards the greater why and then getting to the nitty gritty and the logistics and how those get done second.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, good point. I would say, uh, I don't know how to do this quite yet, but I think it would be very interesting to look at how much time are you saving using these tools and with that time savings, can you create some intentional time for human connection? So whether that's a check in at the beginning of your day or at the end of your day, whether that's a difference in a meeting where you do it, an actual team building activity. Activity where people in real life have to do some of the things they talk about that they can do in their writing. So can they problem solve something? Can they make. Can you teach them a decision making matrix? Can you practice your. We're. I was talking with a sales guy the other day, like can you practice role playing live in front of people? Can you, can you do, you know, some, some getting up and presenting? Because I do think that those skills are going to become more and more important within organizations and good opportunity to start practicing those now with the time we're saving with all these bots and everything, doing things for us. Erica, thank you so much for coming today. I really do appreciate you and how intentional you have been with me over the years in keeping yourself for, you know, in front of me, talking about what you're working on, letting me see you checking in on me, letting me know how your life is going, asking me about mine, it makes me still feel connected to you. Even though we have worked apart from each other for over a decade, well over a decade now. So thank you very much.

Speaker B: Thanks, Christine. Bye, everybody.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening. Thanks for spending time here on stepping into your leadership. I'd like to give a special shout out to our podcast producer, uh, Richard Francisco. Check out our notes for any details and if you want to get anything more out of this, go to our, uh, YouTube channel and please subscribe to LeaderShipLab TV. If you heard something today, of course, that resonated with you, do something with it. It's all about the choices that you make. It's what you say in conversations, how you show up in a moment. Share this episode with someone who's maybe starting a new job or stepping into a new level of leadership, and try one idea, because it just might create some pretty powerful leadership ripple effects. Until next time, keep stepping in because the room changes when you do.