552: Greg Fahey, GM of Hampton University Men's Basketball

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to Sports Business Secrets. I'm your host, Kevin Tarka. This podcast is specifically designed to share secrets from experts in the sports business world to help you along your own path to success in this industry. Each episode is packed with lessons and insights that, ah, never expire. You'll hear from general managers of professional teams, to CEOs of sports tech companies, to agents, coaches, players, and everything in between. I invite you to join me in real time on my personal journey of representing players and coaches, traveling the world, and always finding a way to battle through obstacles in this competitive industry. Craig, welcome to Sports Business Secrets.

Speaker C: Let's get it, let's get it. Long over.

Speaker A: This is long overdue, man.

Speaker B: And, and if you're listening, buckle up because we got a lot of topics to talk about here. Um, all right, so, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a brief intro for those of you who don't know who Greg is, and then we'll let him introduce himself some more and then we'll dive into it. So, quick intro here, starting with the most important part. He is from Jersey, so right off the bat, you know, he's, he's good people. He, uh, did his undergrad at Marist, where he was the manager of the men's basketball team. Started his coaching career at one of the New Jersey powerhouses, St. Benedict's and then he jumped to the Division 3 level at FDU. Spent some time coaching on the EYBL circuit with the Albany City Rocks. He joined, uh, Ed Cooley staff at Providence before heading to Siena as the dobo and eventually the assistant. Then reunited with Coach Cooley as the special assistant to the head coach when he was at Georgetown. And now, uh, he's entering year two at Hampton not only as the associate head coach, but the newly minted and well deserved title of general manager. So congrats on that. And so, yeah, obviously Greg's, you know, clearly coached at many levels. He's, he's got a podcast himself, he started a newsletter that you should definitely tune into on LinkedIn. Um, and he's become a good friend over the years. So, officially, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker C: Appreciate you, man.

Speaker A: Appreciate you.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's, uh, it makes me feel old now, all those stops, you know, but it's, uh, it's been good. I love that. The most important part there is definitely that I'm from Jersey, so it's always good to talk to a lot of Jersey guys. They know the good pizza and whatnot. So I appreciate that. But, uh, but yeah, I appreciate being Here, all those stops, uh, taught me different things, but I'm looking forward to just diving into it.

Speaker B: I love it. I love, man. All right, so usually we start with. Obviously I kind of give an overview of, like, your background, but maybe talk about where you grew up and how you first got introduced to the game. Because everyone's got a different story and they got introduced to basketball, a different level and playing or coaching or managing. So talk a little bit about your upbringing and then we'll jump from there.

Speaker C: Yeah. Got two really good parents, hard working parents. Mom was a teacher, dad was, ah, one of five blue collar. Shared a bed with four other brothers, so did construction. But my dad played basketball in college, so I got introduced to the game through him. Um, in high school I did a bunch of things. Played high school basketball, lacrosse. Um, was in the marching band, actually on the drum line, volunteer, uh, fireman. So did a bunch of things. But basketball was definitely, definitely, um, something that I loved. And then went to college and just kind of tripled down on that when I became a manager. So. Became a manager. That's kind of how I got introduced to the coaching side of things. I didn't really even know. I didn't know anything about coaching. Coaches got paid. Coaches can make billions. Coaches can have a job where you wear sweats every day. What is this thing? You know, I went into college wanting to work for the CIA, totally something different. So it was, um, it was definitely. But then, like, you know how you played sports? I played sports, get to college, you have all this free time, and it's like, what am I doing with this free time? Right. So bumped into some people actually at a, um, out at a house party, one of the managers, and they were like, oh, come check us out, whatever. So went there, checked them out, and then never left. And that led me to all those stops that you kind of talked about. And I kind of just never look back.

Speaker B: I love it. So we could dive into many of those stops. But I think for the sake of time and for the efficiency of talking about a lot of Hampton stuff and your role. Now, let's kind of briefly go over

Speaker A: a couple of the stops because I think it's important to talk about how

Speaker B: your experience shaped you and helped you get to where you are today. So, um, maybe if you can just kind of go over what you learned from having all those different titles and all those different experiences, because they're obviously at different ends of the spectrum and different levels and obviously different responsibilities. So, like, some of the things you learned from that. That helped you and actually help you in today's role too.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think the easiest thing is the first stop at Saint Benedict's. It taught me what this business is about. Uh, well, it's about a lot of things, but it taught me what drives this business, and that's players, good players drive this business and every, um, facet of the game. So when I graduated college, I didn't want to be a ga. I didn't want to be a special assistant. I didn't want to be a dobo, you know, interview for those jobs, turn some of them down to go coach for three grand at Benedict. Because I wanted to be around the best talent and I wanted to have a base that I could combat to in Jersey. Right. So I think that's what I learned the most early on that has carried me through my career. Like, relationships are going to take you further than anything else. And if you have ties to good players, you're always going to be in the mix with some jobs. So that was definitely, um, what I learned at that stop. Then you work through, you know, the. I think, uh, I'm not going to say everybody, but I think a lot of people should be dobos at some point in their career. The director of basketball operations going to teach you the grittiness of this business. Like, you know, you're 25 or 27 or 28, and you have to move a whole program from New York to LA on your road trip. And, you know, George Darwish is going to try to go buy Chick Fil A on my first road trip and get sent back through security and missed the flight. And I got to get him on the next flight to San Luis Obispo. That only has one bus, and you got to figure it out, right? And that was my first road trip, um, as a dobo. So you just learn how to be a firefighter, put fires out. I think if you're a new dobo listening, or any dobo listening, I think you just gotta take a deep breath. You know, a lot of, uh, a lot of that job's gonna suck, but then years later, you're gonna appreciate the organization. So I learned a lot from the dobo, um, spot. And then I think the next pivotal moment in my career was Georgetown was able to get a first, a front row seat to a startup company that was just, you know, trying to rebuild an iconic brand. So, like, my, uh, I'm the first one to say I got no ego. I did no basketball at Georgetown. I picked I. Cooley up every morning at 7am M and I dropped them off at 7pm took them from everywhere to the grocery store, to board of Regents meetings, all that stuff. But I got to have a first class education on how to build a program. And Nil was really starting to go. I was like one of his right hand guys. Me, him and Mark Fox working with the collective and understanding Nil and how um, that GM had kind of started kind of fits. So then, you know, coming to Hampton, Hampton's back down to this um, you know, back down to the mid major level. Right. Which I'm used to, I'm comfortable at, you know, been D3, been a manager, been a high school coach. And you're able to use all these tools you learned at all these stops to now, um, my ball, I have the best Boston College basketball. I'll probably never have a better boss than I have now. So, you know, he allows me to be myself and gives me the freedom to use my skill set. So using all those skills to now deploy at Hampton, which is cool because we're not supposed to be good, we're not supposed to win the league. We're an hbcu. So it's like a new stock. If you hit, you're going to hit for a million and if you lose, then that's fine. I'll go, uh, work at Enterprise and coach at Benedict's again. No problem. You know, we'll figure it out. So, first year, first season, won 17 games and just trying to keep, keep pushing, man. So I learned a lot. I learned a lot. But the number one thing I would say organization. And you know, just like you be attached to good players.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you, you mentioned the uh, the firefighter word. It's funny, someone was asking the other day, like, I think anyone, anyone in business really, like if you're an entrepreneur, if you're in business, obviously the basketball industry, coaches, you know, agents, uh, you know, you're hosting a podcast, you write a newsletter. If you're in business, you're, you're putting out fires, right? Because it's, it's all about challenges and overcoming those challenges. So uh, that definitely resonates with me. But I, I would agree with your, uh, with your advice, which we'll definitely ask some more of later for anyone that wants to get in the business. But if you want to be in this business, you gotta, you gotta A, earn it, but B, you gotta go through those, you know, Director of Basketball operations roles to where you have um, you know, experience in all different facets of of the company. Right. Of the team.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, cool.

Speaker A: All right, so I love it.

Speaker B: Like I said, I'm sure we could dive into all those different stops, but let's, uh, let's get to the. The main part of this, and let's talk more Hampton, man. So first, for some of the audience that's listening that might not be as familiar with Hampton, um, talk a little bit about the school. And then obviously, you know, you mentioned the hbcu, so talk about that landscape and what that means. And, um, you know, just give the audience a little rundown of. Of the school first and we'll get into hoops on.

Speaker C: Yeah, school. School's in, uh, you know, obviously Hampton, Virginia, right by Virginia Beach. 20 minutes from Virginia Beach. It sits right on the water. They call it the home by the sea. It's a beautiful campus, beautiful arena. We got a new president who's in his third year, I believe in ad, who's in his third or fourth year. So they're all about, you know, building the campus, um, up, uh, and bringing athletics, you know, back to the top and being competitive, and they want to win the CIA. So that's. You go as your administration goes. So we have a great administration. Um, I think the hbcu, I don't. I'm not selling anything here. I don't have to sell anything to recruits because I see what the alums and the Greek life and the DMV chapter and the Atlanta chapter and the LA chapter and everybody around the country does for. For these students and these. Especially these student athletes. And I get stopped more in the airport with my Hampton stuff on than I did my Sienna, then I did my fda, then I did my Benedict, then I did my Georgetown stuff. Hampton is everywhere. So, um, I would say that this. This school is unique. And in this era of it's cool to transfer or you're a mercenary, or you might only be somewhere for a year or two and then leave. This is a unique spot where if you're only here for a year, like, we had a couple dudes, we had homecoming this weekend, and I seen them, and they were only here for a year or two. They came back to homecoming. This is a place that people want to come home to. So if you're going to go somewhere for a year or this could be a place for life. An example of that is Noah Farrakhan, who went to four different colleges, and then, you know, his last stop was Hampton last year. And since he's graduated in May, he's been back Three times, twice in the summer, and then once before he left to go play pro. So he has people down here feel comfortable down here. And I've seen dudes at homecoming, like, grown men say, hey, man, like, we know you had options. We really appreciate you coming here. So, um, I think there's a misconception. I think that, you know, there's. There's people, uh, that still think, like, we're an hbcu, that is underfunded or it's not nice or whatever, but every single recruit, whether we got them or not, out the portal, the first thing they said, man, man, this kind of nice on the water, man. This. The Ravens helped you with this. Oh, the Ravens president is alum. He helped you with this weight room. Oh, this arena. So, um, I'm fortunate, man. Unfortunate. And, uh, I'm m. I'm looking forward to continue to build here at Coach Thomas.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's.

Speaker A: I'm glad you talked about the alumni, because I think that's a big part of, um, you know, the. The landscape we're in that could be heavily weighted in a decision for a player to stay or a player to leave. And, you know, obviously everyone has their own kind of, um, weighted, uh, algorithm of what's important to them. But having an alumni base like that and having a, you know, a culture of. Of, you know, community. Let's say that, um, you know, is. Is enticing for players to come back or. Or to stay is, uh, Is powerful. So. All right, that's great. All right, let's. So. So let's shift to hoops a little bit here. And obviously your GM role. So I guess, because you mentioned it before, let's talk about it first. So the caa, that's the conference you guys are in, saw some. Some preseason, uh, rankings come out. And, you know, for me, I always love to be the underdog. Right. So you have these ranking because. Come out and, you know, you're towards the bottom. It's like, you know, what.

Speaker B: What.

Speaker A: Talk about. Talk about that heading into the season and, um, whether that's pressure or the opposite of pressure or how, you know, what the.

Speaker B: What.

Speaker A: What the conversation's like from, you know, let's say the front office view or even inside the locker room.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's. It's all those things are so all over the place because, like, majority of them, as I said, at the bottom. And then, you know, someone has this as, like fourth and fifth, so it's like. It's like I don't really look into them. But, like, I. I think we. We thrive when people are overlooking us. You know, we thrive with, you know, the. The. The BS of all that type of stuff, because we're already in a gritty situation. Like, we have great resources on campus, but there's some things, like, every college that you got to deal with and work through, um, at Hampton, and I think that in the locker room, our guys have a chip on their shoulder. They just do. And some people think that Hampton shouldn't be in the CIA. You got to remember that, like, we only came here, you know, two years ago. So you're fighting to prove that you just belong. You know, you don't have 3 million in nil. Uh, you don't have four facilities. You don't have, you know, some of the things at the top school said. And that's okay. That's okay. At Saint Benedict's, our bench press didn't have foam on the actual bench. Like, you just were on a flat bench with some leather, and you're benching. And guess what? Trayvon Duvall was still the number one point guard in the country. Benching on a flat bench. Figure it out, because no one's coming to save you.

Speaker A: That's good, because. And that kind of will lead into our get creative with what you have and the resources, uh, topic in a little bit. But let's first start with your role. Right. So obviously, everyone knows, or most people that pay attention to sport knows, that general managers are kind of this new trend in college basketball. They've been happening for, you know, a couple years now, but now moving forward, like, that's going to be a position on most Division 1 college basketball teams, uh, if they don't have it already. So can you just give a quick summary of, like, your role and responsibilities as general manager? I know there's. There's many. You have a. You got roster construction, you got cap management, which we'll get into. You got leveraging your network, like, you know, give a little overview on what being a general manager in Division 1 college basketball means.

Speaker C: Yep. Yep. And I think it's different for. I think it's wildly different for every boss. Some bosses are saying, just watch, film and scout. Right. Like, I think some bosses are saying fundraise. Some bosses are saying contracts. Some bosses are saying, get on the plane with me. We're going to Peach Jam and recruit. Right. So it's wildly different for each boss. The best way I can describe this role in regards to a movie character for visualization, I always say it's got to be like Bruce Wayne, right? Like, you got to be able to move in the boardroom and you got to be able to move in the street. That's what this business takes. You gotta be able to sit down with the CEO, uh, of Nestle and ask for, you know, 2 million of, uh, naming rights deal to your arena or something. But you also gotta go down to playing field and go to the barbershop and see Serge and say, what's up? You know, and so you gotta be able to move in different pockets, right? But your boss has to want that. Maybe he doesn't want that. So I think the best way to describe this role is being able to move in all areas, but also form relationships. Um, and in the midst of that, you have to be a fence. So, like, the number one thing for you is to be a fence between the noise and your boss. Because right now, head coaches are. There's no adjustment period. Head coaches have to be GMs. Head coaches have to have conversations with agents. Head coaches are getting emotionally attached to the money because they're like, I paid this kid, this kid ain't worth it in my back, in my day. Uh, so they're not moved on yet that, this isn't your money. This is the way it's going. Adapt it, right? So you got to be offense. To where can you help remove some of that emotion so you can think tactically and clearly and say the GM goes through the conversations of like, man, you're only offering me 90 grand? 500 grand? That's disrespectful. I'm at least 700, you know, like, so take all that out. Then you go to the head coach, you're like, hey, they want 700 grand. Not the emotion of the back and forth, right? So you got to be offense. I think you got to be like Bruce Wayne. And then at this level, I'm still coaching too, right? I'm still scouting. I'm still, um, you know, it's, it's, it's scouting, recruiting, fundraising, I'm doing a little bit of everything. But, um, the typical, the typical, I would say the typical day to day here is you got to balance your time between a little bit of everything, right? And it's, it's not easy because every staff's gonna meet. That's gonna be two hours of the day. You're gonna practice. That's gonna be two hours of the day, plus before and after. So maybe two and a half. There's four and a half hours. You might eat lunch. That's a half hour, that's five hours. You know, the team might lift, you're gonna monitor lift for a little bit. That's five and a half hours. And, you know, you got to be efficient with your time. You know, like, how are you going to be efficient with your time? Because you got to touch agents, you got to touch high school coaches, you got to touch a lot of people. And then you also have to be, oh, I got to raise this money and I got to retain these dudes if I have any shot of being good. So I think that goes back to that dobo and what you said about like, kind of learning the business. If you can do it at the low major and you can grind a little major, the, the, the high major, there's no other job that's going to be harder than what I have right now. But it's, it's easy because it's fun and I have a great boss and I have a, we have a great staff. Um, but at the high major level, I've heard everything and I've been talking with high major coaches. Some of them are very like, I don't need anyone to recruit. Like, I got good assistance to recruit. I don't need anybody to coach or be on the floor. I don't need you to come to Peach Jam with me. You know, just have conversations, do the contracts, raise some money. So I think it's very different from our lens. I think we do it, um, do it well. I know that's probably selfish of me to say because I love my role, but, like, I think, uh, I think your GM needs to be able to, you need to deploy them wherever you need to deploy them, and he needs to be able to get shit done at the end of the day.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it sounds like all the above for you. Obviously, the day to day can change based on the time of year and how much, uh, recruiting and how much, you know, retention that you have to talk about, um, with your team. And I guess on that topic of balancing your time between coaching, scouting, roster, management, recruiting, retention, like right now? Right. So we're talking about end of October before the season starts. Where would you say the majority of your time is spent? Like, are you guys focusing on, um, you know, finishing the 26th class, uh, starting to look at the 27th class or like, for you personally, is some of your attention shifted to here's the roster we got now? We got to be good on the court because we're here, we're in season.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think it's in season mode right now. We just had homecoming, so homecoming was great. We got 20, 25,000 people that come back every year to celebrate homecoming. So meeting and bumping elbows with people on campus, that was a priority. Getting our. We're doing a Drive for 5,500alums to donate a thousand bucks each to raise half a million dollars. Like getting that, um, that's fully in motion and just, you know, explaining that to people. Um, my mindset right now is in season mode. So, like, I'm already watching Boston College, right? That's my first scout of the year. So watching them. So scouting, I would say is a big pocket, then like, you know, keeping touch with 27s. And then for us, we're taking a different approach to retention here. We're, we're starting to retain now. We're having conversations with our guys about retention. We're having conversations about what this can do for you. We're having conversations about what we're doing to retain them. My goal to retain them. You know, I want to speak to your family. I think it's not too early, never too early to retain because you're gotta hedge your bet that the relationship will either bring them back or maybe you'll turn down a little more money to come back because of the relationship, because they don't want to get to know someone new. So I think the teams that are going to last in this thing, uh, and win consistently are the dudes are the guys that are going to be able to retain somewhere between three and five players every year. Because if you can retain four and you have three freshmen coming in, that's seven dudes that either know your culture or haven't not been in another culture yet. And if you got 13 on your roster, okay, the majority by one, but the majority knows or is not, you know, hasn't experienced a different culture yet. So my mind right now is retention, scouting and um, you know, lightly touching some 27s.

Speaker A: So let's double click retention here for a second and maybe a little bit of education for the audience that, you know, doesn't live this day to day, but also just uh, you know, as a, as an educational, uh, standpoint for anybody that's already in the business. So when you sit down, uh, uh, with one of your guys, what are, to the extent that you want to share details, of course, but like, what are some of the topics of conversations, you know, like, because if you put yourself in an athlete's, uh, shoes, it's, hey, we're about to start a season but now I'm talking to coach a business conversation about not this season, but, like, staying for next season. And we haven't even begun. So, like, can you just share, like, the mindset of how you approach that conversation and what's important to the team and what needs to be, what you think needs to be important for the players to understand?

Speaker C: Yeah, great, Great question. I think you got to call out the obvious first. So there's no gray area. And I sit down, I said, kevin, listen, this is going to be weird. We haven't even started the season yet. But I'm going to talk to you about retention. Not going to take a lot of your time. I'm going to, you know, we're going to talk for about 10, 15 minutes, and I'll get you out of here into class. So, like, immediately they're like, okay, I know what he wants to talk about. He identified that it is kind of strange and this is new, you know. And then you say, like, the goal of this conversation is just to educate you on what I'm doing, what we're doing as a staff, and hopefully we can keep this thing together. Now, that being said, if we come out and win 26 games, make the tournament, and you average 15 and five, and you have an opportunity to go high major for 475, 625, 537, I'll pack your bags and say, hey, which door you want me to take you out of? I'm never going to stop you. You did your job. We did our job. But if we can come to a number that's close or something, and you don't feel like, I don't want to move again. I don't want to trust a head coach, new head coach again. Does he really have the best interest for me? Can I stay here and weight player of the year, then I want to get you to that number. So right now. But right now I want you to just start to formulate as you go through the season. What's a number that I'd be good with? What's a number that my family needs? What's a number that's comfortable to me? What's a number that's fair to me? And it could be any numbers. A great, great number because it's a starting point. Don't need that now. Just things I want you to think about. And then I want you to think about, what's the success here? I want you to think about, am I comfortable with the coaching here? I want you to think about what's the alumni network look like if I graduate from here? You know, all those different things. And then some of our guys, we went, met with our president. Our president approved it. We got a UH graduate in three, plan end going. So for a couple of our guys that are sophomores now, we're pitching, hey, come back. We'll graduate you in three, all right? And then that fourth year, you're going somewhere high major, hopefully to not only get paid, hopefully, an exorbitant amount of money, but get a master's for free. So stay here, get that HU degree, that HBCU degree, have that HBCU alumni network, and then go over that. So that's what I just had with you, is the conversation I have with. I have with them about a week ago. And then I kind of just asked him, you know, what's your thoughts on that? How would you navigate, uh, retaining if you were in my shoes? A lot of them say relationship based, building a relationship. Um, and. And then you just try to do your best, ah, to. To make it really, um, hard for them. But I also think you have, like, a lot of people in life, not just this business alone. They talk a lot. And one thing at Hampton that we pride ourselves on as a staff is being able to articulate a plan. And the only way you get there is asking yourself, how. Oh, oh, I'm gonna work. Uh, I'm a great agent. Uh, you should hire me. Okay. Why? Um, well, I can. I can get you overseas. If I got your interview. I'm saying, okay, how? Why have contacts?

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: How are you gonna get to them? Well, I took, uh, you know, I talked to him a lot on WhatsApp. Okay, but how are you gonna get me there? Oh, well, then you get to the crux of it, and at the bottom, if you say, well, you know what? I know, uh, Ray over there over overseas, and I was at his kid's baptism, and then he came over here, and we had dinner at, uh, Tao Steakhouse. And he actually likes the Phillies, too, ironically enough. I'm gonna be like, oh, this dude's really dialed in, Right? Just the same concept as me. So can I articulate a plan and be open and honest with the kid and the family? This is where I see him. This is the money I'm doing. I might not make the million, I might not raise 3 million, I might not raise 1 billion, I might not raise 5. But this is where I'm trying to go. And all I'm looking for is an opportunity to retain him and Then also transparency. So when we hit March 15th and I got an offer for you, it's not, uh, uh, take it 48 hours and then let us know. Because a lot of us are getting burned as college coaches of, oh, yeah, maybe. And then three weeks later, now, you know what? I'm out. So if I have this conversation now, October, November, December, January, February, March. That's six conversations that I've had with you, amongst others, but six set times. Um, I think that colleges should start doing in home visits for their guys that are on their team. That. I said that the other day in the staff meeting. I said, I think that colleges should do. I think that we as staff should do in home visits for the guys that we want to retain. You go do again. Uh, I don't know if that's legal or whatever with recruiting. I haven't searched that yet. But go do an in home visit and December. And call out the obvious, what I just said to you, hey, there's going to be people in your DMs. Hey, they're going to say, oh, you're at HBCU. They're going to say, we can give you more money. I'm going to tell you exactly. It's kind of like this note. I compare it to, to our staff. I said, it's the exact same thing as the scene from 8 Mile where Eminem calls out and said, you know, telling. Tell these people something they don't know about me. Right? Yeah, they're going to say this. They're going to say that. So now when those parents, those families, those kids get those DMs on, man, G told me about this. G told me this was coming in November 1st he told me this was coming. So now it's a little bit more of like, man, he might know what he's doing. The staff might know. Okay, that's a long ramp, but that's an answer for me.

Speaker A: No, that, that was great. I appreciate you sharing that. I mean, I think, you know, the, the transparency and the communication is, is, uh, is imperative. Right. I think there's, there's not enough of that. And when there's no transparency, there's no communication, um, then people have different perspective. Perspectives on what the plan is. Right. And, and, and, you know, that's the same thing kind of on the agency side and that free game. And just, you know, what I've always done is if you have a plan, right, as much as you can possibly do it to the things you control, get detailed with it. So, uh, and we have similar conversations. Agents and coaches and managers, you name it. But it's like, okay, talk to a kid that's in ninth grade. I want to be an NBA player.

Speaker C: Cool.

Speaker A: Well, okay, let's be specific. What kind of NBA player you want to be? LeBron James? You want to get drafted out of high school? Do you want to be a fringe guy? You want to be a rotation player? Do you want to be a starter? Do you want to be an NBA all star, you know, or do you want to, you know, get paid to play the game and go experience different countries around the world? Like, get specific with it, you know, get specific answers and then work yourself backwards and say, let's. How do I take steps to get to that plan?

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So it's the same thing on the coaching side. Um, so, so I have two follow up, quick questions on that. Communication and conversations, um, of retention. Or this could be for recruiting too. And that is one is value. Right? So, you know, obviously when Nil started, people were saying, oh, that's way too much money. That's way too much money for this kid and for that kid. And well, look, the price of something is what someone's going to pay.

Speaker C: Yeah, 100%.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And so that just, just that, that's pure economics. Um, but for you, from the, from the GM side of things, how do you value and put, let's say, a price on, uh, in quote, a salary, right. Or an Nil package? Is it, um, I'm sure it's all the above, but like, to what extent, if you can walk us through, like, is it performance based, obviously to win games, right? That's, that's your job. Is it, you know, anything to do with the, um, the amount of followers and exposure on social media and marketing, which, you know, could be. Some schools could be not. Um, is it like, you know, how good they are as a teammate? Like, what, what variables weigh heavily for you and how do you create that ultimate, like, value or offer?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, like, especially when you're dealing with smaller budgets, the value is what you have in your total budget, right? Uh, it's pretty simple when you only got a couple hundred thousand versus if you have a couple million, ten million, right? Like, how am I going to pay this guy a million? And then also, um, for us, we looked at field goal percentage was huge for us. Like, who has a good field goal percentage? You know, do we have some bigs that we can get that are 60 and field goal percentage? Um, and then like, we needed a point guard that average three or more assists a game. We felt like, so, like, and, and then I was really studying conferences that were being under recruited. So like Jolly Gaines. Calvin Cage did a great job of having, uh, a relationship with Jolly Gaines, our starting point guard. He was in the swac. He was at Alcorn State. Like, how many dudes are really dialed into Alcorn State games? Right? Um, but this kid averaged, I think like 3.4 assists or something like that. I don't care. There's certain things, field goal percentage, assists, free throw percentage, three points. Like, there's certain things that are going to translate. Now, points that might not always translate, but percentages will usually translate in certain aspects. So if you average three plus assists a game, that means there's been probably, there's probably been at least if you're averaging three and a half assists, you've probably had multiple games where you had like six assists in a game. It's a lot of assists. So we needed a point guard that, you know, Coach Thomas runs a good amount of sets just like Coach Cooley did. We needed a point guard to be able to run our offense like that. So for us, um, we were looking for that for, at the point guard position for assists, for bigs. We were looking at, you know, field goal percentage. And then it comes down to, yo, we don't have a ton of dough. So, like, where can we get the most value? Jolie Gaines didn't have an agent. Michael Ealy didn't have an agent. Um, some of the other guys we signed didn't have agents. Right? So, like, not saying that's a good or bad thing, but, you know, I've dealt with, you know, some, some agents that are like, you know, oh, that's a hbcu, you know, why would you go there? Or, oh, we got that over here. Okay, let me see what we can get over there. That's their job. That's their right. Great. No problem. You know, um, but at Hampton, I always say we can't fight fair at Hampton. We gotta be unique, we gotta be creative. So, like, which pockets are you going into? And then the only way you're gonna know, and you're never gonna know, but the only way you're gonna have a pulse on who's getting paid what is if you got your ear to the street, that's really it. So like the ear to the street to find that it's. I, uh, know Kevin, who knows Ray, who knows Mark, who knows Alan, and Alan's, you know, stepbrother's sister's cousin is the coach at, uh, Alcorn and knows that Jali got this, right? And then are they going to be transparent enough to share it with you? Because they know the information where it's going back to, right? So I think you got to have barometers like, you know, but you're never good. So you got to know like, okay, this went for this in the swac. Or you got to have a couple agents that you have deep ties to. I know I can call Kev and he can be like, yo, I rep the guy that just went to UNC Charlotte and averaged this in the CAA, and he got, um, you know, 225 grand. Okay? If that kid got this at 225 from the CIA and there's another CAA player in the portal and he's two points less than this, well, he might get one hundred and seventy five. Like, so there's only. The only way to do it. You just gotta, you know, um, you gotta be walk the beat. You gotta walk the beat and pound the pavement, right? That's the only way. Right now you can have these technology companies trying to sell me for 10 GS, 20 GS. Congrats. You're probably gonna, you know, get the. The Alabamas of the world for Hampton. We got Excel spreadsheets. And this is my best tool right here, this map that I have on here. So I still love it. I stare at this map at night and I say, who do I know in Kentucky? Who? Oh, Kevin. Kev's in North Carolina. He's a Charlotte. Oh, Julie V. He's in. He's in Cal. Let me hit Julie V up. Alfons is in Dallas. Maybe he got a plan. So that's how I sparked my brain through a 699Amazon map. No fancy, you know, intelligence program.

Speaker A: I love it. That's great, man. And you touched on it a little bit too. And I know that was a loaded question too. So you talked a little bit about how, like, like, you know, where you're looking to recruit and how you kind of value those recruits. Um, the, the second part of that question, or. Sorry, the second follow up question was, um, how do you just generally speaking, because everything's case by case right, these days. But it's like, how do you guys at Hampton communicate with representation? Uh, right, like, at what, at what point do you, um, try to bring in representation? Uh, sorry, communicate with representation before or during or after you talk to a player or their families? Like, how does that work, generally speaking? From, From Hampton's perspective. Yeah.

Speaker C: Right off the bat, like, it kind of funnels through myself. So, like, any of the assistants that are recruiting, if the kids have an agent, hey, we just want to loop you in with our gm, and then you can kind of get a feel. If you talk to, you know, hundreds of agents a year, you can get a feel is this. Is this guy. Sometimes you can't always get a feel of his. Good dude or not, but you can get a feel if they know what they're doing or not. Like, you know, you can get a feel if, you know, some of these dudes are ripping natty ices. And they're still. They're just their boys. And at an Arizona's frat party, which is real, by the way, everybody listening. Like, you know, you can get a feel. Okay, this is 21.

Speaker B: Okay?

Speaker C: This guy's. This. This guy's. That. You can get a feel, right? So I'm gonna. I'm gonna talk to those dudes immediately, and I'm gonna say, okay, you know, what's the number you're looking for? For. Okay, great. How'd you come up with that number? You know, walk me through your process. You know, okay, they might have an answer. They might. And they could easily say, well, that's just what we want. Okay, great. Well, this is what we can do. And this is the roster we're trying to, you know, build. And if you're not about it, you're not about it. But you got to be careful, man. Some of these dudes are on visits, and they got boys on other staffs, and when they're on visits to have the boy on the other staff say, hey, oh, they're offering 30. Oh, uh, okay. Um, yeah, we'll offer 40 to come here today. And then they'll say, hey, listen, you know, Smith university is offering 40, you know, so you got to be able. You just got to be tapped in, or else you get. You got to treat it like it's your personal money in a sense of, you know, guarding it, but you got to be not emotional like it's your personal money.

Speaker A: Yeah. And. And let's talk about the relationships for a second, because obviously, relationships are, you know, I think for kind of both of our journeys and many people's journeys in this industry, it's. I, uh, mean, we don't have to say how important relationships are, Right? Having genuine relationships and sharing information and, you know, being honest and trustworthy. So in some ways, you know, I feel like they matter more than ever now. But also, in some ways, you know, they don't hold much weight, right? Because it could be transactional. So you could get that. You know, the kid that's at Arizona State, that's just boys with it. Uh, you know, grew up with someone and said, this is my boy, and I'm his agent. And, like, so how do you approach that? And how do you, uh, I guess, differentiate between what needs to be transactional and what needs to be, like, gone through the ringer of, like, let me. Let me make sure this relationship is genuine and built upon versus, like, hey, I don't care how we get this dude, even if it's transactional. This is the dude we want, and this is what we're gonna do.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's.

Speaker C: That's so. It's such a fine line because. Because in a way, it's great. Like, I heard Josh Pastner speak in Vegas, and he was right. Like, in a way, it's unbelievable. And he loves it because it's so efficient. Hey, what's his number? Oh, it's 225. We're nowhere near that. Thanks. Who do you got next? So in that way, that's really efficient, and that's great. Um, you definitely still have to build relationships, because we're humans. But I get what you're saying. Like, you know, if you're trying to, like, build a relationship with a high school coach, like, you know, you might go to the gym a couple times, you know, do this. That, uh, the third. I got great relationships in New Jersey, as you do. You do. But if you were repping a guy that was from New Jersey, he could be from. I recruited a guy last year that I, uh. One of his closest guys was. I'll be invited to his wedding next year. One of his. One of his. His agent was, know me since I'm 22. And, um, his other guy has been to Hampton a couple times, who's from Jersey as well. But another school in a slightly higher league offered 70,000 more dollars. So, like, I had every relationship, you know, uh, known to man, and I do made it really hard for him. So, like, it's. It's tough, but when the bottom line is the bottom line. The bottom line. Now, the counter to that, right, is I've known Michael Ealy since he was in high school. I coached him at Sienna, but he didn't have an agent, so he came and played Noah Farrakhan. I coached at Benedict when he's 13. He didn't have an agent. He came and played. Right? So, like, you still got to build relationships. But when it comes to agents, I think you just more so have to have some type of mutual respect. And what I'm learning is the, the agents and the coaches, like, uh, you'll gravitate towards certain relationships in any line of work. So, like you or me or m. My. You know, Ethan Corey from Easy Sports, he's one of my, my good friends that's an agent. Like, eventually it just grew to be like, oh, you watching the Dodgers tonight? Like, and we're just like friends now, right? You're not gonna have a hundred of them, but if Ethan can do that with me and he knows what college coaches are thinking and I know a hundred of them, he knows me, he knows 100. If I know Kevin and I know Ethan, And Ethan got 100 agents and they know what, like, so I think it's a balance, a delicate balance of you have to still build relationships, but you have to understand that the bottom line is the bottom line. And as we pay our bills with wins and bosses, you guys pay your bills with contracts. And yes, you guys are going to try to put the athlete in the best position possible, but at the end of the day, if it's a substantial difference, you can't do your boy a solid anymore, you know, and just lobby up one, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a fine line. It's a gray area, but it's a, let's call it an art, not a science. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, cool. Well, let's, uh. We talked a little bit before about like, fundraising and how that's part of the job and how every different GM has a different role and responsibility, but for the majority, let's say of, let's just call it non power conferences, even power conferences, but non power conferences. Um, the reality is that many athletic programs, their bill just went up, right. By $20.5 million every year. And so fundraising is a big piece of it. Um, so I guess talk about your approach. I know you, you've done a great job of getting creative and thinking outside the box. And you even talked about the dinners you're hosting in different cities. And like, so, so talk a little bit to the extent that you want to share details about how you guys think about fundraising and how that differentiates your recruiting pitch for some, some, uh, some athletes, but also allows you to go back to retention and have more money in the pot.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's a couple different buckets. So like number one is, uh, it's just like we're calling them retention dinners. So like, we want to, you know, invite some of our alums to a dinner. And we play in LA. We play in, uh, Atlanta, we play in D.C. we play in Boston this year. So, like, come to a retention dinner. Can we raise, you know, 10, uh, to 20 grand? Maybe a dinner? Who knows? Like, whatever. And, like, explain, hey, you guys love this thing called the Home by the Sea. You guys love this thing, Hampton University. If you want for these guys to, to stay and get that same experience and get that same degree that you have, we're going to have to pay for it. But you're. You're putting. You're. You're putting. You're naming something, you're attaching something to the money. Hey, we're. This is a retention dinner. You are giving to retain these guys. It's not just like, we need money to buy players. No, we need money to retain these dudes. Like, Like, I think that's so. I think that's. That's one bucket that we're doing retention. The other bucket we're doing is, is the drive for 5, 500 alums to donate $1,000, um, to raise half a million dollars. Again, that, that goes to retention, too. And we're saying to these alums, hey, you're going to now have to pay for your legacy. So if you love this legacy and you want to see these athletes have your degree, we can't have a $250,000 gap. Might be able to have a $50,000 gap and say, you know what? I'm just going to stay at Hampton and not go to, you know, I, uh, don't know, somewhere in Smith University for, you know, an extra 50. But you can't have that big of a gap. So I think those are two things we're doing. And then trying to get it creative with, you know, what high majors would do, Try to get creative with sponsorships. Like, you know who I talked to a lot of these chief marketing officers. I'm trying to be different, separate myself. And I'm getting in touch with some of these chief marketing officers, and all they want is the content. They want their brand on content. So can you grow your Hampton social media to 200,000 followers and then get Trident gum to be like, oh, I like these dudes. Uh, I want to sponsor them. Here's 200 grand for it to be the official sponsor of Hampton men's basketball? I don't know, maybe, you know, like, can you get a major airline to sponsor you? And then if you can't sponsor us, uh, if I have a recruit that's coming and has 10, 15,000, 50, 40,000 followers. Can holiday Inn sponsor them? Because there's a bunch of Holiday Inns around Hampton's campus. You know, something like that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's another reason for listeners to tune into your, uh, newsletter. I love the one example of, I think you did Tide, where it's like, you know, if, uh, you can't support a player directly or, you know, maybe you can put Tide logo on the different mops that are mopping the floor and help the team manager and do the laundry. Like, yeah, it's creative and I love it. Now let me ask you this though, because this is one thing that I talked about this on an earlier podcast. So if you want to fact check me, uh, audience, you can. But, um, maybe two summers ago, as soon as Nil in quotes came out, it, it began many conflicts of interest. But for the topic we're talking about, like, how do you and, and every school is gonna be different, but the sponsorship and fundraising for you for that Tide example or the Holiday Inn example, how does that affect your conversation with like the athletic department or like, you know, how. Because it's tough because the athletic department's gonna say, hey, well, we want Tide to pay us to go on the, you know, the end zone or to, on the court. But like, you know, each sport specific is going to say, well, we want Tide to help us retain an athlete and get money in our budget. So how does that work? Like internally, is it a, is it a challenge? Like, obviously you mentioned you have a supportive athletic department, which is great. Um, talk about that a little bit.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it just comes down to your relationship with the athletic department and where do they see the value, do they see the value of putting it in other sports? Do they see the value in putting revenue generating sports? Like, you know, who got the connection? I mean, life's not fair. Like, yeah, you're right. Like if men's basketball could go get a $900,000 deal and they say, hey, we're going to break it up here, here and here. But, uh, you got to scratch for the money, right? So like, even if I get the deal and it's 100 grand, I only get 70 of the hundred. It's still 70, right? So like, you know, I'm not opposed to like, you know that, but I think it's a conversation of this is what it is. And then also, okay, maybe it's, uh, it means a new locker room, you know, use the money for the new Locker room. That's not nil. Whatever it is, you're just. I. I think you. I think the role, just like an elite recruiter is going to walk in the door and say, I got a connection to this player, this player, this player. I'm just hedging my bet and guessing, educated guessing, that I think that a GM role has to walk in the door with relationships with brands. That's what I'm seeing in trends at the high major level. It's like I see their guys on Marriott commercials constantly. I see their guys on, like, you know, dealing with hotels. See, they're guys on air. So I'm like, okay, if I can walk in the door and say, I've had conversation with Delta, you know, Chief marketing officer, the Trident, Chief marketing officer, Beef jerky officer, boom, boom, boom. I got these 10 relationships. I'm not guaranteeing anything, but I can get you a conversation. You're the AD at, uh, you know, this high major boom, boom. Now here's the baton, right? But you need people to get in the door. So goes back to Bruce Wayne. That's my Bruce Wayne theory that I came up with.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker C: Like, you know, two. When I was at Georgetown, I'm like, can I be in the barbershop and know how to move? I got to get this player done. And can I be in the boardroom and get a conversation with the CMO to get a deal done? So, and then you take it back to that administration, you know, conversation and say, hey, this is what I have. This is what I think we can do with it. What do you guys think? Want to have a great working relationship with you, and then there's a compromise in the middle.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's big time. I couldn't agree more. I think there's obviously different aspects of every role, uh, at every level. But if you can walk in and you can have the connection and relationships to players, to brands, to somebody that can open the door to help ultimately bring money and, or players into a college program. I mean, you're a valuable asset and, you know, that might in the future, which we can get to here in a second, that might turn into chief revenue officer or chief business officer or chief strategist or whatever it is specific to a sport team. But, um, the reality is, you know, if you're a revenue generator with connections, there's a spot for you somewhere.

Speaker C: No doubt, no doubt.

Speaker A: Um, and so on that topic, thinking forward here, um, like the future of nil, the future of the college landscape. Like, how do you See, how do you see the GM role? Uh, evolving. Um, and then I guess at Hampton, but just in general and then yeah, we'll start with that and then we'll kind of dive into the next, the next future question.

Speaker C: I think the first evolution, you know, college basketball is always like about five years behind college football, if not. So like college football's already start to build out like front offices with assistant GMs and stuff. So I think there's going to be a big wave this off season and then a massive wave the following off season of um, GMs at every program. And it will start like kind of what I'm doing, you know, gm like, you know, going to get some players, maybe two and recruiting if you can't. Because some schools can't afford to pay a gm A by the way, a cheap GM at the high major level all of a sudden is 225, which is insane. 200 grand, right? So like not every school can afford, oh, I gotta pay this guy assistant 200 and this guy GM200. Oh, I'm just gonna combine the roles and I'm gonna pay three instead of four. Right. So I think that initially it's gonna be this GM role. You're still gonna have to wear a couple different hats. Hats and navigate it. And then eventually, maybe in 10 years, I think it comes down to a front office model. And I was actually talking about this today with somebody like, like I, to the degree of I'm not sold that every college coach loves working guys out. I'm not sold that every college coach wants to get in the gym. Uh, so like the front office, when I'm talking front office gm, assistant gm, sure. But like director of player development, that has no interest of being a coach, doesn't want to work his way up to a coach, doesn't go out recruiting maybe not even in every staff meeting. Maybe he's a 10 month employee. I don't know. Like, I don't know. But he just is responsible for working your guys out and get better in conjunction with the assistance. But like you, you're running it like a pro program. Hey, this is my front office. They, their, their duties are to see trends before they happen, be connected with all, uh, the AU and, and agents and whatnot. This is my director of player development. He has a plan for each player. He's the point man on getting those guys better in the off season and maintaining during the season season. I um, think you guys think creatively. Uh, I just think you do. And it's going to take time. But I think the first step is getting a gm. Everybody's got to get a gm and then coaches got to figure out how to use them and, um, kind of take it from there. But I think it's the only one thing. And I understand why they're hiring NBA guys and whatnot, but, like, you still need to know the streets of college basketball. Like, I'm not saying if you have assistant coaches, you're doing it, no problem. But like, if you have no experience and then these assistants hand you off to an AU dude that you, you don't know how they move or navigate, or a high school coach, you don't know how they move, their navigator or handler, you know how to move the navigate. Because in the NBA you were just drafting guys back to our earlier point market value. You can get bamboozled. So that's my only thing. Um, with these GMs, I think the, the best GM right now. And we're biased, but, uh, you know, our dudes that have, have some experience in the game, you know, Chris Ogden at Texas, Matt Abdelmasi at St. John's you know those, those type of dudes, you know, Andrew Slater at, um, NC State, he pounded the pavement as, as a, uh, you know, if since.

Speaker A: Talk about a Bruce Wayne character.

Speaker C: Yeah, Bruce Wayne 100. Like, I'm proud of him. He's had, he's had some pictures on the Internet now. I told him, um, you know, shout out Andrew. Uh, but, uh, but I think that's. And I think Will wait. Like, will wait. I seen Will take him on the road. I think that's imperative. Why would you hire a GM that has all these connections and then sideline them? And then, by the way, if you're thinking like a head coach, you're thinking smart, you bring your GM out. What do what. What's everybody seeing? That's the guy that's in charge of the money. So without even getting up, uh, whether it's a you guys or other coaches, whatever, I got to go talk to the money. I got to go talk to the money. So now you're, you just are a billboard and now you're attracting these dudes to you, and you're going to get the best thing that we all want. Information. So that's how I kind of think of it. If you're going to sideline it, I think it's a waste of dough. But, you know, however you want to do it, you do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I mean, we, you and I talk about this a lot. I think, to add on to the future, let's say front office staff, I think it's going to be that, you know, the position, specific roles. I think it's going to be more scouts. You know, I talk about this a lot on an entire episode about the international, how international scouts are going to get involved. And, you know, if, uh, obviously, barring some rule changes, but why would you not have on staff or at least some sort of exclusive scout working for you in Barcelona or in Tokyo or in Australia or in Germany? I mean, I just. I think that is the future, because as we start looking forward here, you know, in a few years, there's going to be, um. You know, I don't know, will the majority of players that play in the NBA and, or college be non American? I. I don't. I don't know. Maybe, but we're working towards that. And so that's just, you know, obviously

Speaker C: a few years down the line. That's a great point, though. But if you're like a low major coach that doesn't have a lot of resources, take your third assistant spot that stays 72 grand, and say to a guy in Barcelona, yo, scout full time. Come over once a month. Oh, and by the way, bring your players here. I don't have a lot of money. We're gonna get them, like, $26,000 in nil just to survive. But use me as a platform. And when they kill, you can now move them.

Speaker A: Boom.

Speaker C: Like, yeah, that's. If I get a head job, that's what I'm gonna do, you know, when.

Speaker A: When not.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, when, When. Um.

Speaker A: Man, well, look, I. I know we've, we've. We've talked, uh, you know, kind of around the block here.

Speaker B: I'm.

Speaker A: If we could talk for hours more. But as we start to wrap up a little bit, what is, uh. I always like to ask some. Some advice. Right? So, you know someone in your shoes that, uh. Or someone that wants to be in your shoes, right? So if someone's listening to this and they say, hey, I want to be, you know, the future GM of Hampton, Right? What, what is some advice? Uh, without. Without going on on a long tangent, because I'm sure you could. But what's. Just some general advice for people that want to go down the GM path in the future?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think it just, you know, it comes down to relationships. How do you do that? You make as many calls, you write as many letters as you can, you identify who you want to target, and you you, when you reach out, reach out and say, hey, I saw something in your bi. Hey, I saw that you started coaching high school basketball. I found that interesting. Do you have 7 to 10 minutes? Don't say 5. Don't say 15, don't say 20. All of us think this is going to turn to an hour. Say something obscure. Seven to ten minutes. Because everybody's got seven minutes. Do you have seven to ten minutes to talk about how you got there and then use people's egos against them because they love talking about themselves? And then you just say, oh, really? No way. Huh?

Speaker B: Oh, really?

Speaker C: No way. And then at the end of the conversation, they organically say, man, that kid's a good kid. He really, you know, asked right questions. And organically they say, how can I help you? So I think those, that's how you build relationships and that's how you can kind of work, uh, your way to the top. And, and just I would say a non basketball piece of advice that I talk to young, young coaches about too. Um, totally, totally different. But this, this dream that we're all chasing, whether it's, you know, basketball, uh, and coaching or basketball. As an agent, you also have to be in tune with your own health. Like, you know, something that. So a mentor of mine told me that. So, like when I was like 27, get a physical once or twice a year. Um, you know, go. It's not just physical health. Go to a financial advisor, put a hundred bucks a week away, you know, towards, like, you know, um, towards retirement. Work out a little bit, like, do those little things because we all don't do it. And then we open our eyes and we're 37 and we have no money saved for retirement, but we all don't talk about it. Also, invest in yourself and get something because they can fire you and be replaceable like that. If you have the money and you live in Iowa and you can buy a house for 200 grand, buy the house and rent it. Now you got a rental property. Protect yourself, right? So I think those are two pieces of advice as you chase this dream. Build relationships, but then also take carbon. I know the doctor's appointment might conflict with a film session, but get your blood tested. My triglycerides are high. I avoid freaking Chick Fil A now. Like, you know, whatever. Just, just do it. So those are two. I would say those are my two

Speaker A: spectrums as big time. That's big time, man. Well, I'm sure we could talk for hours here, but maybe we'll have to do around 2. Mid season check in or postseason check in. Um, but I appreciate you coming on. So the last thing I got for you before, before I let you leave is called the sports business lightning round. So I gotta fire some questions at you real quick and you hit me with the first thing that comes to your mind.

Speaker C: Let's got it.

Speaker B: Let's do it.

Speaker A: All right. What's your favorite color?

Speaker C: Blue.

Speaker A: Do you prefer coffee or tea?

Speaker C: Never had coffee, so I guess tea.

Speaker A: I forgot you're not a coffee guy. That's right. Crazy. Um, do you prefer pizza or pasta? Now this is a tough one.

Speaker C: Pizza.

Speaker A: It's not pizza.

Speaker C: Not for me.

Speaker A: Would you rather be able to speak to all animals or speak four languages fluently?

Speaker C: Four languages fluently. Superpower.

Speaker A: What is your favorite country outside the one you're in right now?

Speaker C: Italy. Florence, Italy.

Speaker A: What's one of your biggest strengths?

Speaker C: I would say my curiosity. Being curious about different things.

Speaker A: Who is one of the first people to ever believe in you?

Speaker C: My mom.

Speaker A: What's one of your biggest fears?

Speaker C: Um, I think one of my biggest fears would be not being, not, not building a family. That would be my biggest fear because I think people get, uh, dragged into this dream, this lifestyle, and then you're 47 with no kids and you're fired from Kansas State. And now you have to go work at pace, which is no problem. But just. That's one of the biggest fears.

Speaker A: That's a good one. Two, uh, more here. If you could have dinner and drinks with anyone in the world, dead or alive, I'm sure there's of lot, a lot of people. Who's one of the first people that comes to mind?

Speaker C: Uh, James M. Gandalfini.

Speaker A: Love it on par, man. And last one here. If you could turn back time and talk to 18 year old Greg, what would you tell him real quick?

Speaker C: Keep pushing. Just keep pushing. I think, uh, you know, chase, chase, chase. The purpose and the profit will come. And uh, yeah, I would just say keep pushing because I think, and I tweeted about this the other day, I think everything, a lot of, a lot of what we want is on the other side of eight months of hard work. Um, we all have, we all have our days in these, these professions where we're like, you know what, it might just be easier to get a 9 to 5, but. And I had that, I had that moment. I was in the parking lot laying down in my Nissan Xterra in the trunk and I was interviewing for a bathroom sales fans job that paid 120 grand. A year on Long island, and one of my mentors said, nope, eight more months. Keep pushing. And eight months later, I was at Georgetown. And then now I'm here. So that's what I would say.

Speaker A: Love it. I love it, bro. Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you coming on. Excited to. To get in the gym with you here soon, and. And, uh, we'll be rooting for you and following the season, and, uh, we'll chat soon.

Speaker C: I appreciate it. Everyone tune in to Kev. He's the best man. Newly resident in Charlotte. Send your champagne bottles there to crack the nice, uh, new apartment. All right?

Speaker A: I appreciate you, brother.

Speaker C: All right, man. Later.