Why Everyone Deserves a Defence with Solicitor, Shazia Ali.

Speaker A: Innocent until proven guilty. That is supposed to be the system. But is this still the case when it comes to public opinion? In today's episode, we're talking about justice, public opinion and the role of legal representation in a world where people are often judged long before the case reaches court. My guest is Shazia Ali, founder of Scarsdale Solicitors. Her firm, um, specializes in areas such as motoring offenses and criminal defence. And her, uh, work gives her a front row view of how the legal system interacts with the public. Today we'll discuss why legal representation matters more than ever. How social media is shaping the perceptions of guilt and innocence, and how law firms themselves are adapting to changes in culture, technology and society. And this is Shifting Views with Willis. Okay, Shazia, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Wayne.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a real pleasure to have you here. This is a really interesting topic for me. So I've really been looking forward to this. Um, because they, they like the whole discussion around. Everyone has a curiosity, don't they, about kind of law and court and crime and, you know, there's so much stuff in entertainment about it. And so kind of everyone becomes kind of a judge or a lawyer, don't they, when they hear about stuff? Um, so I think it's like a morbid kind of curiosity that we all kind of have. So whenever I get the opportunity to speak to like a solicitor or lawyer or something and just sort of find out the nuts and bolts, I always find it quite exciting. So thank you for joining me. I really appreciate that. Um, uh, just so just to roll back before we get into things, it'd be nice just to kind of roll backwards and just work out your start in, in law. Like your journey into law. What's led you to build Scarsdale? And um, more particularly, why have you started specializing in motoring offenses and kind of criminal defense? That kind of areas. Why did you choose that topic?

Speaker B: Okay, so how I started, um, I, there was experiences where we noticed, you know, as growing up, you know, experiences where I felt that people weren't getting the services that they need. And it wasn't just law, it was just general, you know, customer services wasn't the very best. When I was growing up and, uh, possibly shaped by my own personal experiences, I felt like I could bring about a change. And, um, I've always wanted to make a difference. Now definitely didn't want to become a doctor because I just don't have the intelligence to be a doctor. But I take that back. Actually. You Know if you put your mind to it, you can do anything in life. Um, I just wanted to actually help people. And my, my forte was talking and getting to know people and listening to people. And when I realized, well, what, which area that covers, I realized it was just law. Just was a perfect fit for me. And um, that's where the journey started. I, I studied in Sheffield, then I did my BBC in the University of Northumb. I then um, I was very lucky. As soon as I was called in the BBC I applied for 142 or 143 solicitors firms. And the first interview I got, um, it was fantastic because he interviewed me and offered me a job on the spot. So three weeks from completing and graduating and I was offered a position and then that's it. I stayed in crime and I've always done crime. Immigration and divorce. Those are the three areas that I specialize in. But um, I've always felt that there's more to what I can. There's a bigger purpose for us all and my purpose was to make sure that people are understanding and there's access to justice. Um, and it's one of the reasons why I set up the law firm. Um, um, I generated the business plan for Scarsdale was actually when my daughter was on nasal gastric feed in the hospital. Um, I realized that I needed something to work around my children but also do what I enjoy doing. And that's where Scarsdale's was created. My child was sick. I needed to be there for my three children. So I wanted to be the parent that was doing the school runs as well as in work and doing a good job basically servicing the clients to the best of our ability. Um, the goal for Scala Sales is, and that has never been to run as a factory. It's to be can we service a client and can we service them to the best of our ability and act in their best interests? And that's, that's was, that's our nature. That's who I am. Um, what's right for the other person. And, and, and I feel like law is the right fit for me and that's the reason why I do what I do. And I do love what I do as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it sounds like, it sounds like it's a very personal thing for you. Cause you're saying you've sort of built this around your family. You had a sick child, you kind of wanted to, you wanted to balance between kind of being a business leader, I suppose a balance between being a mother, but also a Balance between building something, you know, being an entrepreneur and making something. It sounds like you, it's a real personal link for you.

Speaker B: It is. And, and, and that makes, that, that determines, it makes me more ambitious and it makes me want to see people like me successful as well. So it's just when we were growing up we were often, we're not really given the tools to kind of be entrepreneurs. Uh, not many of us grow up in that sort of setting. Especially you know, uh, 1977 was when I was born and was raised in the 80s. We weren't given the tools and the skill set. You know, being an entrepreneur nowadays, everything's out there. You've got all these things and training, coaching online. You could be anything you really want to be. But back then there wasn't that. Um, and I realized like I've always wanted to do more and the bigger goal obviously is to service the community. Um, and we're doing that, we're doing that and we're doing and hopefully fingers crossed, we can do it on a larger scale. The idea is always to create a pro bono department in Scarsdale's where people that can't afford legal services and they can't get legal aid, we can actually give them the support they need without them having to wait for, for you know, down a waiting list. You know, I'm sure you may be familiar with like non molestation orders, occupation orders, all of these things. People like victims of domestic violence don't actually know what their rights and entitles entitlements are. And I actually wrote ah, a piece recently in an article and I don't think it's been published yet but it will be. It's just general advice. You don't know what you don't know. And you know I want to give people the tools and um, the skills to actually, okay, we don't know this or we can you know, signpost into the right direction so that they can be supported and get on with their journey.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean and you mentioned like your, your areas that uh, you specialize in, in um, uh, you sort of saying criminal law, uh, immigration. I think divorce. I think you talk about uh, it. Have you chosen those areas specifically because you felt it was like those were the things that most affected of society. Is this kind of part of like the giving back thing? It's more personal. Is that what that is?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um, immigration. As you know we're currently living in a hostile community at the moment. It's a hostile society in relation to immigration. Lots of bad Publicity. And I'm, um, not. Look, I'm not a politician and I'm not here to undermine anybody at all. But migrants appear to suffer quite a lot, unfortunately, because they don't know what's available out there. What, you know, the ones I've dealt with, a lot of them are victims of sexual trafficking and they come here for a safe net. You know, they come here for support and safety. They are genuinely escaping violence and I would like to support them on their journey. And I have done, you know, we've done cases with councils. In fact, we've done a couple of cases recently and we've not charged for those services because I knew I could help them and get them the outcome they need without them having to fall and wait on a legal aid list or, you know, wait for some, you know, raise the funds in order to pay privately for solicitors. So really, it's about giving back to society and being able to help the genuine people that actually need our support.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So crime is definitely, you know, unfortunately, we live in a society where you're guilty until proven innocent. It should be innocent until proven guilty. Not everybody that's arrested is actually guilty of a crime. And, you know, people don't know that Right. Should be protected. Um, they don't understand the process. Mistakes, um, happen. People get wrongly accused or wrongfully arrested and they don't know what's available to them. And m. My view is that their side of story should be adequately presented and help them get the best possible outcome. And if they have made a mistake, then let's help them get the best possible outcome and help them ensure that they don't make the same mistake again. So it's about rehabilitation as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. So I'll. I'll come to that in a sec, later down the list, because I am going to speak to you a little bit about that, but just before we get to that area, um, I always wonder, it sounds like you're talking a lot about fairness. You're talking a lot about societal stuff, which is. Which is great. Um, for you, why is legal representation such an important principle if we're going to have a fair society?

Speaker B: We all have the right to a fair trial. Everybody has a right to a fair trial. And unfortunately, because people don't understand their rights and entitlements, they just. If somebody tells them, oh, you should plead guilty to this, and even if they're not guilty, they do that. Yeah, fairness doesn't exist unless the right support is offered at the doorstep. And I feel that most people don't understand that, like, for example, uh, I mean, maybe, um, a bad example, but I'll give it anyway, just to give you an idea. You can be on a night out and you can have a drink, and you can go in your car and sit in your car and fall asleep until you're sober, but then you can be prosecuted for being in charge of a motor vehicle whilst under the influence. But if you have no intention to drive and you are waiting so that you're completely sober, you're below the legal limit of 35, you know, you're waiting till you're completely able to drive, that you're not guilty of an offense.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: And most people think, okay, the police have arrested us, so we are guilty. Um, we must be guilty. So. So let's accept this and, um, move on. And they're not. They're not guilty because they had no intention to drive. So they don't really know the legal defenses that are available to them.

Speaker A: Yeah. Shazia, do you think that, um, lawyers or solicitors, do you think that they sometimes get a negative public opinion?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um,

Speaker A: particularly if your defense is. Particularly for your defense. I guess maybe more so if your defense.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So, I mean, we've. We've been criticized on many occasions. Oh, why are you doing this? Why? But not. Like I said from the outset, not everybody's guilty of an offense. They just, you know, presence doesn't equal, um, guilt. If you're there, doesn't mean you're guilty of something. You know, you can be an innocent bystander, and you can still be prosecuted for something which you don't know, you know, you don't have any knowledge of. And unfortunately, I am big on fairness, and I am big on ensuring people's rights are being attended to. Unfortunately, public opinion also matters as well as, you know, because it shapes individuals, organizations. Um, and, um, you know, we're in a situation that we're all influenced by social media, so people are found guilty. Even it's innocent before.

Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So it's a pre. It's a pre judgment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Uh, you know, just because you're sat in a car and. And you're waiting to become sober, you're not guilty of an offense. But. But, I mean, so society, now, public opinion matters because it's understanding what people think and experience that helps ensures decisions are made fair and relevant. And the real world, all of this has an impact, especially if you're having a trial by jury. Um, because they are. Even though they're not expected to. They're not allowed to be influenced by media for a particular case prior to them entering court. They may have a judgment on a particular issue because a family member or something they read in an article may have already made them made, formed a judgment in their head and they're not supposed to. But we're humans. At the end of the day, we all have our, uh, prejudgments in our own subconscious and we kind of shape. It shapes our decision making. And, you know, that way.

Speaker A: Yeah, and you.

Speaker B: All the time.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. And you, you touched upon a word earlier on when you was answering, actually, which I wanted to speak to you about, which was somebody's rights. Um, and I wonder, is there, is there a misunderstanding between defending somebody's rights and defending somebody's behavior? Do they merge? Do they get a bit blurred?

Speaker B: They do. And it's the public interest. Not the public interest, sorry. But the public opinion has a huge impact in this area because rights are what everybody is entitled to, whether they're guilty or innocent, whether they've done something wrong or not. Rights are there to ensure that we maintain a certain standard in a democratic society. Those rights, if they're not protected, then the justice system will be flawed. And, um, unfortunately for us, sometimes that happens. Um, and look, not everybody is innocent, okay, that's just, you know. But we're here to ensure that they get treated fairly in the process itself. Like I said, people have been incorrectly convicted of offences they're not guilty of. And our job is not to defend behaviour, is to understand the case against them, understand the challenges a person face. If you're having a panic attack in a custody area and you can't understand what a custody sergeant is telling you, how can you possibly be guilty of an offence? If you're having a psychotic episode or you're bipolar and you're in a custody, should you not be protected? Should your rights not be administered? Should you not be entitled to having someone support you through that journey? And that's where we are, that's who we are. We help people. Like some people obviously are guilty. And there is no way to challenge that. There's nothing that we can possibly do. And we say from the outset, look, this is a situation, with or without a solicitor, you're going to be found guilty. I personally, my view, and this is ethical, moral, if I believe somebody is actually going to be found guilty with or without me, I advise them not to use me. They can use a solicitor, it's their choice. But it's not in their interest to pay privately for a solicitor, where they're going to get the same result with or without me. And there's a number of reviews on Scarsdale solicitors, um, where people have actually said, thank you, Shazi, we've gone a meeting, you've given us the tools we needed. We thank you so much for telling us what to do. And that's what we do. I make myself available most days to have these consultations to signpost people to where they need to go or to tell them whether they should be using a solicitor or not. And we're not the right fit for everybody. You know, sometimes people cannot afford a solicitor, but at, uh, the very basic, they should be advised as to, well, does their case have a good chance, what they should be looking at, what they should be doing to prepare themselves.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit about the public opinion piece, because you've mentioned that a few times and obviously it's very relevant in today's heavy media world, um, just in terms of public opinion. Obviously lots of people are immediately judged online, even if you don't even know what the accusation is, even the slight, um, mention of, like, potential involvement in anything, immediately says, this person must be guilty of something because it's off. You know, there's no smoke without fire, all that kind of stuff. Um, so when that happens, how does that actually affect the justice system? Obviously, you guys have to be completely independent and just be based completely on facts and present in that case. But is. Is there a pressure, is there, is there a feeling for you guys, as legal, uh, professionals of saying, um, listen, you know, we've got to make sure we just stick to our job here and not be influenced by whatever noise is coming out. How hard is that?

Speaker B: It is a challenge. However, it. When you become a lawyer. I've been practicing, um, since 2001. I've been in criminal law. And when you have practice as long as I have, you kind of can step out of, you know, when I'm here, when I'm in court, I'm just there to protect the client's best interests. I'm not there to protect myself. I'm not there to represent the public. I'm there to protect the client and their best interest. If their best interests are to accept the offence and move along, be punished and start rehabilitation, then absolutely, like, that's what I do. There is. If you have a personal experience and you're a lawyer, for example, God forbid, if a family member has had an altercation or an incident on the road where a drunk driver's been involved. Yes, it would shape and it might mean that lawyer doesn't deal with drink drivers anymore. Okay, I'm not here to say drink drivers is okay to drive and drink. I've actually done a podcast on drink driving and shaped like what is legally allowed, what the limits are, when to go. The barriers are different in Scotland and in England. Um, so look, I'm not here to say it's okay to drive and drink drive. I'm here to help a person and represent them to their best interest. But if they've made a mistake because of ignorance, then I'm there to help support them and make sure that mistake doesn't happen twice. Thankfully our clients don't actually, they make a mistake and we don't see them again in a good way because they realize that the punishment, you know, they've made a mistake and this is what's happened and why they shouldn't make the same mistake ever again. You know, I'm a big believer of rehabilitation. We all make mistakes. How we deal with that. Uh, don't make the same mistake again.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was going to speak to you very briefly about motoring offenses. I know this is not everything you do, but it's one of the areas that scars is involved in. Um, and the reason I'm going to ask you about this is because going back to your earlier point, everything you seem to be doing seems to be very societal, personal based, a bit of a giving back kind of vibe. And uh, we're motoring events is they tend to be highly emotive, don't they? They're like highly emotive cases usually because sadly somebody's injured or something's destroyed as a result of it. Um, do you find that people feel particularly strongly or the kickback is particularly strong in that kind of criminality around motoring offenses? Um, is that one of the more personal impact cases or areas?

Speaker B: Um, personal impact. So I'm not entirely sure how to answer that question in fairness because motoring offenses uh, are complicated and you've got like, for example, you know, Wayne, you could be driving today and without knowing, you could be maybe, you know, you could be in Plymouth. Unknown roads, there's no, there's inadequate signage and you could be driving and it could be 20 and you could be doing 30 and you could do that at different times on the same day and uh, not know that you've committed an offence. Does that make you a criminal? Absolutely not. Okay. That goes to court and Then if you're without representation, you are convicted of these various tickets, speeding offences and you lose your license for six months. But unfortunately for you, you didn't see the signage because it was inadequate signage or there was roadworks and the diversion signs were not there. Um, you shouldn't be treated like a criminal because it's a genuine mistake. For example, insurance, um, insurance is a big topic. It's called a strict liability offence, which basically means either you have it or you don't. But there's lots of people that actually go on Instagram and TikTok and buy insurance and continue to pay for insurance on these platforms. Um, and they believe they have adequate insurance until they get pulled up and told that they don't have insurance. Does that mean they're guilty? Absolutely not. Because they've made a genuine mistake. And those are the type of people that we help. I don't feel that people like that should, should be treated as criminals. And unfortunately, when you go into court, you are treated like a criminal.

Speaker A: Well, the, one of the questions. Yeah, sure. And exactly that point, and the reason I asked that first question was because, um, I think there are misunderstandings around the, this, this area because as you say, like, whenever we say like in court for a motoring offense, we immediately feel like, uh, it was a drunk driver, we hit a child, we killed somebody. That's immediately the first thing that's coming to mind. And it could be that you're in court, as you say you were speeding but you didn't realize you were speeding. There was this scenario, that scenario, whatever. Um, but I suppose the, the emotive size, the personal impact side could be, for example, if you have genuinely like if you've done death by dangerous driving or something like, which is obviously awful, you know, for the families and everyone involved. So that's a very personal thing. But if you went to the other side of the scale and say, I was in court and I was convicted of speeding, but, you know, because it was in inadequate signage, but either way, I lost my license for six months. That's personal impact on me. Right. That's my job. That's all the things that.

Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: So do you think it, you know, it, what seems to be quite a passive thing in terms of like a, uh, motoring offense. It can be very personal impact in so many different ways. Which is why you've got to get it right as the lawyer.

Speaker B: Right, absolutely. So, um, by the way, I'm not here to defend dangerous drivers causing, um, but the, and most people, public opinion Will see. Okay. I've been convicted of a driving offence and most would assume that it must have been something serious, but in fact it's a totten up, which is 12 points and you've been disqualified. Lots of magistrates, lots of doctors, lots of accountants, lots of people have speeding offenses. It's, you know, if you're on the road and your job involves driving, lots of people have. I'm, um, not saying it's correct, but I'm saying lots of people make a mistake and that does not make them criminal. Saying that, by the way, dangerous drivers, like, if they're dangerous driving and it's resulted in death, like that is a severe offense, however dangerous driving is. So, you know, it's quite a broad area and I know from personal experience when dealing with these dangerous driving causing serious injury, according to it, they don't go out with the intention of killing somebody that day or harming somebody that day. They could possibly, and I'm not saying this is always the case, but they could potentially be overtaking a vehicle and a person runs across the road.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker B: Okay. And they charge with dangerous driving. And I've had several cases recently this year where innocent people are driving home with their children in the car and somebody has gone in front of their vehicle and it's resulted in a serious injury. Somewhat one, you know, I can't give detailed information, but, you know, people have ended up in comas, um, leg amputations, it's all sorts of injuries. But does that make them a criminal? They've gone home, they're driving, they're driving with their children. I can guarantee you that that person or those people that go out on that day, they don't have any intention of colliding with someone or hurting somebody or going or going out with the intention of, uh, yes, there are other people out there where they are driving dangerously, they are speeding on the road, racing on the road. Yes, absolutely. That is, there is going to be an impact of that. But I'm not here to justify that behavior. I'm not here to justify anybody's behavior. I'm here to make sure that people know what their rights and entitlements are and they treat it fairly. And they get the best possible outcome from a result where they didn't go out with the intention of hurting anyone or harming anyone. They could be innocent and, uh, they've just been caught up in a terrible situation. I can imagine myself in a situation where I'm driving with my children and somebody can run out in front of me. Does that mean I'm a dangerous driver? Did that mean I intended to cause that person harm? Absolutely not. Yeah, but, you know, it's just a society we live in.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and exactly that. And. And it's why I'm touching on that point, really, because, um, I mean, in. Before we had a briefing call before we had this podcast, and I told you I had a relative who's recently, very recently, was killed on the road. Him and. Him and his. His wife. His wife luckily just about survived, but he was killed instantly. Um, but that case is still, um, out. We still don't know the outcome because the police are still investigating all these things. But my point to it was that, uh, immediately when that became kind of public knowledge and it was on the news and all these things like the public opinion of that, the backlash to that was immediate. You know, this terrible driver, what an awful man, what was he doing? Blah, blah, blah, without knowing anything. We don't know anything at this stage other than somebody was killed. Um, and even. And I'm saying even as a family who, you know, who were broken by the situation, but even as a family, we. We immediately were like, okay, we need to understand what happened here, because, like, one side, on one side, this guy, this driver could be completely innocent. He could have maybe, you know, he had nothing to, you know, he happened to be driving along and my uncle ran out in front of him, and that's what happened. It was an awful situation. Or this guy could have been drunk, high on drugs, speeding. There could be a million, a million factors. Um, and I suppose just to bring it back to the point of this pod, really, is to say that this is. So why we need that kind of independence of law and making sure that we have the absolute facts and the states, uh, the things stated so that whoever, even if they do turn out to be guilty in some form, we understand the right sort of guilty. So that. That is not, you know, you know, they're just awful, terrible people. You know, there was. These were the scenarios that caused this effect, you know, and that's what makes it justice, right? Uh, I would say absolutely.

Speaker B: I'm glad you mentioned that, Wayne, because I was reluctant to raise that after you and I had the initial briefing about this podcast. But you're truly one of a kind, and my condolences to you and your family in relation to the loss you suffered. But not many people are like yourself, Wayne. And, um, you see the backlash that, you know, that you. That this person received because this was made public. But we don't know the facts. And Scarsdale solicitors, we are very fact based. We're not here to mislead anybody. Ultimately all lawyers are officers of the courts. We are not in a position to mislead anybody at all. And legally the law doesn't allow us to do that. Okay. We're there to look after the client's best interest to make sure if we can challenge the case, we can. But if there are no angles and um, the client's advise to the best of our ability and what's in their best interest. Okay. Not everybody's innocent, but not everybody is guilty. And I guarantee you nobody leaves the house in the morning with the intention of harming somebody on the road. And unfortunately that's public opinion. And um, that's what happens. And you are unique because like most people would agree with all the media in that case and say, yeah, he must have been this or she must have been this. But that's absolutely not true because you don't have the facts available to you. But you know, once the facts become public, once it goes to court. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you can, you know, you can't talk about it. You know, there's lots of shaming before shaming and naming before the person's actually convicted of any offenses.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And it is wrong.

Speaker B: We can all be in that situation.

Speaker A: We could all. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And we could all be in that. You're absolutely right. We could all be in that situation. And I think just from, as a family, you know, um, the, our viewpoint of it really is, um, let's, let's get the detail, make sure the investigation happens, make sure the court happens. All of these things factors out, let the process happen. If it turns out this person is incredibly guilty of doing some awful stuff for whatever the scenario was, then they should be punished within the law. And that's what the law is there for. If it turns out this person, you know, was in an awful situation and um, maybe had made a mistake but wasn't, you know, it wasn't anything, whatever. There's so many scenarios that like I, you've got to hear that out to understand where it has to go is, is my point to it really. Um, but you know, and it's easy. I, I understand the emotive response in any of these criminal. Because if you're a family member and you've lost someone, you just want, you want results, right? You want, you want somebody to be, to, to be the consequences to be met. Yeah, yeah. You want to be Punished, but sometimes

Speaker B: go to prison for many years. But.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Well, it's interesting. I only wanted to mention that just because I know that's an area that you work in and, and I know it's quite emotive to lots of areas, so, um, it was worth bringing up. Um, the other thing I wanted to speak to you about, just in the. In terms of law, is obviously the world's changing. We've talked a little bit about social media, we've talked a little bit about technology. AI is the big buzzword that's happening right now. Um, are you finding that this is really affecting you as a professional, either in terms of clients that are using AI to kind of get their legal advice and then bringing that to you?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Or on the flip side, you as a professional, um, having to navigate, you know, using AI in some way to make your processes a bit easier, a bit quicker. You know, how is the adaption happening?

Speaker B: Embracing innovation is absolutely necessary because, you know, if you stand still, society never stands still and we need to go with whatever changes are being made. However, you, you have to embrace innovation but then not abandon your values. And the situation we've got with AI is fantastic that we've got so many things and tools available to us where we can quickly chat GPT and get the answers we need. But ChatGPT doesn't often, doesn't always spit out the correct information. You'll see in it. Well, I see it in the Law Gazette, but there's lots of articles where viruses and solicitors have actually used AI. The information is being incorrect, the case law has been used and those solicitors or viruses are being punished. So what I'm saying to the public at large or anybody that's listening to this is not always. It's not. The AI doesn't always spit out the right information, so always definitely get the right support from day one. I personally have lots of people emailing and you can see the ChatGPT response. They've typed in a question and, you know, the person, for example, the client may have broken English and you know that that is chat GBT rent, you know, generated and you know the bullet points and you know, we need this and it's used. It deviates us from doing our job and doing it correctly because then we're having to justify what ChatGPT has created in order to help the client understand the situation. And it's not the way it should be. Like, we need to remain relevant, give people the right support. From day one, we need to Embrace innovation, but do it in a way where it can help aid and support the casework and simplify, make it more efficient and make sure that people are getting the right support from day one rather than having to spend hours attending to a ChatGPT generated concern or not a concern. Maybe concern, uh, may be the right wrong way, but inquiry. This is what I read. Yeah, this is what I read online. This is what I think. Tell me your thoughts. By the time, you know, we've read the, the content, you know, 20 minutes have passed, the consultation time is only half an hour, there's only 10 minutes left. How can we possibly give the person, and I'm not saying all consultations, by the way, but in a free consultation, how do we give them the support and the advice they need when they've generated about 15 paragraphs from ChatGPT and we're having to go through each bullet point and address the issues being raised by this particular client? And, um, you know, I'm not here like, you know, Chat GPT is fantastic. Gemini, all these tools are amazing, but there's, they should be used as a, as a support really, then to then shape a person's theory on a particular case. I'm a lawyer and I'm very, very good at my job. Thankfully, I've got a fantastic team here that support me and ensure our clients are serviced and their needs are met. Um, but I wouldn't go and use ChatGPT and go to a restaurant and say, right, I would and say, look, here you go. This go with a Michelin restaurant, for example, and take here's a recipe I got for a Michelin, I don't know, five course meal. I'd like you to create this for me. It just doesn't work that way. Everybody has their own niche. Like you, Wayne, you're fantastic. You're very knowledgeable about podcasts and you do them very well. Um, but I wouldn't try and do podcasts because it's not my forte. I just, I'd make a mockery out of the whole thing. But we are specialists in our industry. Crime, immigration, motoring, um, divorce and, you know, crime is like the top for me because it's all I do every single day. And we are very, very good at what we do. But we're here just to make sure that everybody that comes to us is supported in their area and their needs are being met and they're being heard. We are not a firm that doesn't listen to them. You know, I make sure that I speak to Every single client, if they need my time, my staff will book that client in. Even if it's one of my solicitors clients, they will book in a call with me and I'll go through their concerns if there are any, or go through anything that we've done well, anything that we may have not done well, but I'll take on that feedback and implement tools and implement things to make sure that doesn't happen again, if it's an issue that we have to deal with internally. But coming back to technology, we need to embrace innovation, which is where we started. Embracing innovation is absolutely the key. If you're, you're still working on paper files and you've got an office full of paper, I just don't feel that you can deal with things properly nowadays without embracing technology.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, no, so I mean a couple of things on this really. Uh, so one is, um, as we've already touched upon, the law is obviously very, very personal because it affects people ultimately.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, and like things like AI, it doesn't understand context. People need to remember this. It doesn't, it doesn't know the context. It's giving you predictable words in its response. It doesn' doesn't understand the nuance and it can't make an argument and it can't see like you as a lawyer can sit in a room with somebody and you can see how they shuffle, how they look up and down, that everything about them, you can pick things out, which is what we can do as humans to understand, you know, the emotive and everything about them. Like AI, uh, doesn't do that. He's just giving you predicted words, you know, so like you've got to be very careful with that. I think for some people. Um, but the other thing on technology, just more generally, obviously we're in a world of um, of like dash cam footage. Everyone's got a ring doorbell, everybody's got a mobile phone. So like digital evidence must play such a massive part in what you do now.

Speaker B: Absolutely. People are being prosecuted on dash cam. I mean first I saw a dangerous driver this morning and honestly I was like, this is why dash cam footage is forwarded to the police. Because if you're overtaking five cars on a residential 20 mile zone, like those people should be punished. Um, you know, five cars dangerous, very dangerous. This morning, this is when I was coming back from a run, um, this morning and like literally there was five of us in a, you know, driving down the road and he or she overtook five cars on a 20 zone. And clearly Driving at excessive speeds, that is just such a danger. Um, but dash cam footage is every. Like nowadays dash cam is. People are being prosecuted on dash cam. Lots of, like most, a lot of hearings have been dealt with by a cvp, which is remote hearings. We do video. I mean, this is before COVID actually. I was doing a lot of prison visits via a video link. So that was prior to Covid, but since COVID lots of hearings have been dealt with remotely. Um, lots of, lots of material like ring the doorbell, dash cam, all of this. Like, there's more available to us now to prosecute other people than there ever has been. Previously it was a witness statement from a neighbor or from a, you know, now it's dashcam with a statement saying, this is on my dashcam, here's the exhibit. And, um, this person needs to be prosecuted.

Speaker A: Sure. So I mean, basically what we're saying from a technological and innovation point of view is we think it's wonderful if it's used correctly in the right context, it gives us a lot of calls, a lot of great things. If it's used incorrectly in the wrong context, then that can be, actually be more damaging than helpful. Um, and you gave a great example of that, of people bringing in sort of, um, AI generated questions and queries and things. Um, but actually on the flip side, if you've got tools like a dash cam or a ring doorbell or whatever, that obviously aids you to do a lot more in terms of investigating the case. So it is all about that balance. And I suppose you as a firm, um, you have to just continuously adjust according to what's coming out and what's next, really.

Speaker B: Like I said, society never stands still. We need to make sure we get with the times. And building a. And adapting is absolutely key to making it more successful. Um, the only way to ensure that the client's expectations are met is that we adapt to these changes and make sure that we embrace new technology and move with the times. Rather than being an old type firm where we're still working on manual files, we're a cloud based firm. Um, everybody that works with Scarsdales can access their information, whether if they need to at home, and they can access it in the office, emergencies arise. As you know, Wayne, you know, you have your drivers at night, in the middle of the evening where an accident occurred and they need immediate support and I need to be able to jump on and say, okay, this is what's happening in this case. And you know, and without having a cloud based firm, we wouldn't be Able to access the information because we can't take paper files home. Yeah, uh, you can't leave a paper file in the car because it's against the rules, it's against the codes of conduct and it invalidates your insurance. So you need to make sure that everything you do is protected and it's in line with regulations that are there for ensuring that there's fairness amongst all.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I mean even just to stay as a firm, to stay legal, to stay regulated and all that kind of stuff, you've had to adjust according to how the technologies adjust and make sure to keep things fair. So I mean, I mean it sounds like a no brainer but I mean, you know, I think the public need to understand this because I always think firms like the areas, I call them lionized professions. So like you know, lawyers, accountants, doctors, those kind of things. Big sort of in you know, uh, professional professions, you know, where they've got a lot of education, a lot of history, a lot of heritage. Um, and I think sometimes the perception, the public perception of that can be like all lawyers, all accountants, all doctors, you know, it's kind of like stuffy yesteryear, you know, wigs and gowns and all that kind of stuff. But actually you have to be as technical and ah, savvy and as you know, innovative as any other industry just to keep up, you know, just to, just to keep moving, you know.

Speaker B: So as an entrepreneur you need to, as a business owner I need to be on top of sales, marketing, business development, um, embracing AI, um, ensuring that we are not falling behind and we have been able to adapt to the relevant changes quite quickly. If we don't if new like in March there was um, new law introduced. But if we didn't have access to what we did, we wouldn't have known at the time that this was being implemented. And because of technology now we, you know, we have access to all these legal platforms online. We, you know, we have things at uh, our uh, fingertips. Whereas previously when I was training you'd have to go to a legal library. And the firm, the first firm I worked with were fantastic I will say but they had a library and you know all the materials there. But you'd spend hours looking for a response, um, what you could use. And you know back then it was, it was okay, you know, you had, you had the time to do it. But nowadays if you want to grow any firm and if you want to be able to meet all the clients demands, you have to be able to have that information at your fingertips. And the only way to do that is to embrace innovation and technology and make sure you have all the tools available to you to give your clients the best possible result that they could achieve under the circumstances. Guilty or innocent.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, sorry. Uh, well, I mean, yeah, I absolutely agree. And as you know, um, Shazi, I mean, my. My main job is I. I work in innovation. That's what I do for a living, you know, outside of podcasting. But, like, you're. You. It's so true what you're saying, because I always say to people with clients, I always say, your job, the role of innovation in your organization is to continue to add value. That's your job. Uh, keep adding value. And the way you keep adding value is to make sure that you're adjusting and adapting and making sure you can still meet the needs and go beyond those needs as the world or tech or anything else changes. Um, and so firms that are doing that, and I think law firms have to do that. And you give a great example of what Scarsdale are doing. Um, you have to be able to do that because otherwise you wouldn't be able to represent your clients efficiently or successfully. So, I mean, absolutely. Um, and it leads me to. You've been really generous with your time, so, uh, so thank you for this. I'm just going to lead to the last question I wanted to ask you about, which was really just your role as a leader. Shazir. You know, you. You've built a firm. You, you've said how you started out. You're trying to get that balance between family and business and building something, but also giving back to society and kind of trying to help those that need it and all of those kind of elements. What, how, how would you describe your role as a leader? You know, uh, how do you feel building a business? Has this been a massive challenge? Do you feel rejuvenated every day? What is it? You know, how does it feel?

Speaker B: Um, it's been a huge challenge. Complete transparency. It's been like. I think we. I set up the business plan back in 2013, and, um, we started. I think we were authorized by the Solicitors Regulation Authority, I think in 2015. Please don't quote me on the dates, but 2015, 2016, I had a little box where I was trading from. You know, it was myself and my sister. She was phenomenal. She helped me, like, when I needed it the most. Like, she helped me initially because there was just me and her, um, and she. We. We obviously parted ways, but with growing, like, everything Rome Wasn't built in a day. Nothing happens overnight. Perseverance and showing up every day is the key to any successful business. Uh, and that's what I've done ever since. Thankfully, I can say I've got a fantastic team. My staff are all happy. When I feel that my staff are all happy, they can service the clients better. Um, we've created a culture here where there's no hostility, there's no in house politics. Everybody just loves working. They love showing up to work. If you drive past, my office is like, you will see people wanting to stay after work. And it's not because I tell them to. They decide. They make that decision if they want to. And I tell them, look, it's Friday. Guys finish, go home. They choose to be here. And that shows the kind of culture that we've created. They want to be here. And I feel like I'm kind of where I want to be, where I needed to be. If I didn't step out of my comfort zone and do what I did, I would never have achieved what I've achieved so far. But. But behind every successful business is a great team. So I could not have done this without the staff. I have. We've got a new operations director in. He's fantastic. And he's also my, um, involved in doing things that I was previously doing. You know, when you're running a business, you are the salesperson, you are the marketing, you are the, um, you are everything, basically. And now I'm in a stage where I can delegate responsibility to other people and say, okay, well, this case is in court. Can you please do this, this, this. And we're at a stage where we are now developing. We are hiring, but we're only hiring for, you know, certain staff members that, uh, can actually come in and add to our culture. And we're big on diversity as well. So, you know, we're a mixed office, and we have different cultures here. And. And those. Those people bring different things to our business. And. And I love that. I love that about the firm. Got a variety of staff with different upbringing, different backgrounds, different cultures. And. And we've just created a great business, to be honest. But. But without the right. Without the right team, there's no way I could have done this myself.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, yeah, it sounds great. I mean, it really does. And it's music to my ears, I have to say, because, uh, from a leadership point of view, you know, I mean, your job in terms of building your business is obviously, you have to go through the grind of the Doing and building it up, but then eventually getting it to the point where you end up being the leader, the visionary of where the direction is going to, rather than kind of like the spinning all the players. You know, you have a team that are able to do that for you. And if you're a good leader, you have a good team, as you've just articulated, which is great. Um, and, uh, you know, from an innovation point of view, you know, there are three pillars. Strategy, process, and culture. And if you haven't got the culture right, the strategy and the process don't matter. So it sounds like you're focused on completely the right thing, which is great. That's fantastic to hear. Um, I would just say you've kind of touched upon it really there. But just in closing, if people were going into this world now, so aspiring lawyers that are going into the law world, you know, maybe they want to be like you. They want to build a firm. Maybe they've got aspirations to give back to community. They kind of want to do something powerful. From your own experience, what would you advise them? What would you say? Is. Is it a values thing? Is it staying true to yourself? Uh, you know, what would you. What would they do?

Speaker B: I would absolutely say value. Um, stay true to yourself. They. If you're true to yourself, it makes you a better lawyer. Don't lose sight of why you became a lawyer. And the lawyers that I have on my team, they've all. They. They were, they qualified because they wanted to bring about a change. They're not. They've not, you know, just done it because of the, you know, the financial side of things. You know, they really want to add value. The best lawyers out there are the ones that want to bring about a change and want to make a difference and, um, want to get the clients the best result possible. And just don't lose sight of who you are and why you do what you do. And it's taken me years, by the way, to actually understand why my business is doing well. It's because I am who I am, and I am definitely about giving and making sure that everybody's heard. But also everybody has their own personal journey. But mine is there's a bigger purpose for me, and, um, that bigger purpose is to serve others. And how I do that is, you know, what I'm doing right now. And I'll continue to do that, but hopefully on a larger scale so that we can set up this pro bono department and signpost people and help and they don't have to worry about legal costs and having to pay for a child protection order, for example, they can just come to us and we can support them through this journey.

Speaker A: Sure, yeah. Well, you know, Shazir, this has been really interesting. I mean, for me, I would say that, Justin, uh, justice works best when people understand the context of what's going on and conversations like what we're having now, that pulls away from, like, the headlines and the social media nonsense and all the stuff that's out there and hopefully helps people see the bigger picture of, you know, why we need the fair justice system and why we need to understand the nuance and the people that enable that to happen, like yourself and your team. Uh, and I think that's really, really important. So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and sharing your expertise on podcast, because it really makes a difference. Um, if people want to speak to you or get to know more or find out, um, the services you do or get some help or whatever, where should they go?

Speaker B: Um, we've got a website, scarsolicitors.com you could call our offices. All the numbers are online. You can email info, scarsdalesolicitors.com but, but, you know, they can also, you know, Message online, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, whatever.

Speaker A: You're all over the place.

Speaker B: We're all over. We're everywhere now. And hopefully, fingers crossed, it will continue with the support of yourself like Wayne. Um, I'm sure you have lots of followers, but, you know, I just hope that we've, we've helped somebody that's listening, you know, one of your audience members, you know, we've helped them in some way because, because it's not just a business. It's about making sure that people benefit from what you do. Whether it's just a podcast or a free consultation or just a phone call, but making sure that wherever you go, whatever you do, you're always adding value.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I would say, um, Shazi, just by you coming on the podcast, it really makes a difference because it makes you accessible. And one thing that I find about the law industry and lawyers and things is I think people who haven't experienced working with a lawyer or needed a solicitor or something like that, it's quite a scary experience. The whole idea of picking up the phone and speaking to a law firm immediately sounds like terrifying. Um, and I think, you know, by you just being out there and sort of saying, look, we're just humans, right? We're just trying to, we're here to help you speak to us. That's what we're here for. So, you know, by doing this, that. That really helps. So scarsdalesolicitors.com if you want to reach out to the firm and find out any more about those. Shazia, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really, really appreciate it, and I wish you, uh, a wonderful time over the weekend, and I wish you all the best with everything you're doing.

Speaker B: It's been a lovely podcast, and thank you so much for sparing the time to speak to me. It really does make a difference.

Speaker A: It's absolutely my pleasure. All the best.

Speaker B: Thank you. All the best. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thanks.