The Hidden Cost of People Pleasing: Why Women Abandon Themselves

Speaker A: Do you find yourself saying yes when you really want to say no? And are, uh, you the kind of person who is super, super accommodating, even if it is literally going out of hand and putting yourself in jeopardy or in a very, very challenging situation? If this sounds familiar, then definitely stay tuned because in this conversation I'm speaking to Vicki O'Reilly. Vicky is a wellbeing hypnotherapist. M and we are discussing and exploring what all things people pleasing. Let's get into it. Right. Hello, Vicki, how are you?

Speaker B: I'm, um, very well, thank you. How are you?

Speaker A: I'm great, I'm great. All the better for you being here and joining me. So really excited for this conversation. You are a well being hypnotherapist and your specialty is something which I've just been saying literally. I think so many people struggle with it. So I think it's going to be a really interesting conversation. It's around people pleasing and kind of abandoning yourself and losing yourself and these kind of nervous and anxious attachments.

Speaker B: I do find it's quite a common problem amongst many women, especially women who are quite highly sensitive people who have been through certain kinds of trauma in their childhood. And it doesn't necessarily mean any type of abuse or anything like that. Just not having that sense of safety in childhood where they felt like they had to earn love from their caregivers and that really kind of filters through to adulthood.

Speaker A: Right, right. Okay. And exactly that's, that's one of the reasons we want to talk about it because as you say, these things are still affecting us and they're showing up in these ways. So then, um, when people are kind of coming to you, what, how does this manifest?

Speaker B: The number one is they have just completely lost their sense of self. They're angry all the time, they're very resentful of their partners or just people who they have relationships with in their life. And it's got to the point where it's just very exhausting and they just want to, they want a better relationship, but they don't know how to implement that because everything that they have cultivated in their relationships to this point has been based from a core belief of fear and anxiety, of losing the connection. So they've adapted in so many different ways in order to secure that connection so that they don't feel abandoned. But the ironic part really is, uh, that they've abandoned themselves in the process to not be abandoned by somebody else. So they come just in a very, it's from a very depleted place really, because none of their needs are being fulfilled by themselves or by anybody else. Because they find it very difficult to say, well, I need this to feel secure in this relationship. So because their needs, that they're expecting their needs to be met in a way that they fulfill other people's needs rather than saying this is what I need, they're expecting the same treatment, vice versa.

Speaker A: I think we hear a lot of things like you shouldn't abandon yourself and you should be true to yourself and all of those things. But I guess it's how does that actually look in practice? Because you mentioned that what's driving these feelings is coming from a place of fear and coming from a place of things that happened in the past that are actually still affecting us. So and you mentioned kind of some of the feelings that you're typically identifying, which is the anger and the resentment and all of those sorts of things. So it could be anybody, couldn't it? So I think we sometimes think, you know, if you're self aware or you're kind of on it or all of those things that this can't happen to you or you're not going to lose yourself or you know, better. But I imagine that it can happen to anybody if you've kind of got those underlying challenges that have happened before, even if you feel that perhaps they're not necessarily controlling you now.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of people who I speak to are very self aware. They know their patterns, they know they can, they can identify it in hindsight, not necessarily in the moment.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, and because this is not a mental issue, it's not a mindset issue, we don't need to say just, you know, think positive thoughts and everything will be a hunky dory. It's very much a lived in experience. So all of these fears and all of these reactions actually live inside your body. So consciously you want to move forward and do something different. But uh, your conscious reality is only 5%. We're only conscious of it. 5%. The 95% is very subconscious. So you could say, right, I'm going to take 10 steps forward. But if your subconscious kicks in and it's like I'm going to minute we only want to do five steps here, it's going to drag you back. So trying to cultivate something where you don't have these feelings, you have to build a uh, solid foundation in yourself. You have to trust yourself to such a high degree that even if somebody was to turn around to say and say to you, you know, I don't want to be around you anymore. Of course it's going to hurt. It's going, you're going to miss them. But you're so strong in yourself. You're like, okay, I understand completely. You're not going to try and immediately close that gap. What can I do in order to not let them go? Because you're not being honest with yourself, you're not being who you are, you're constantly adapting, hyper vigilant all of the time. So to kind of counteract that, it's about coming back to self, choosing self. In those moments when you do feel activated and you want to close the gap, you say, what do I need in this moment? Not what do they need in this moment.

Speaker A: When certain things happen, it's like you want to just react to it as quickly as possible. Uh, what can you do? What small steps or what small actions or what little things can help you to catch yourself so that you, you are kind of not reacting as you might naturally want to?

Speaker B: Well, a lot of people will just say, I have this conversation a lot. And um, the main advice out there is to notice in the moment. But in order for you to notice in the moment, that takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of self reflection. So when you're first starting to build this within yourself and change this pattern, you're going to react first as you normally do. But then what I would suggest is to reflect afterwards. When you're back in equilibrium and everything's kind of settled, Reflect back and notice how you felt during that reaction. What was your first instinct to do in that reaction? Was it to move forward? Was it to run away? What was it? And you build that self awareness from there. And what happens is you will then start catching yourself in the moment. When you do catch yourself in the moment, that's when you can start practicing the pause to say, right, okay, I know I'm feeling activated right now. You take a breath, what can I choose to do now? But it does take practice. It's not an overnight thing like a lot of people try to say it is. It is an ongoing practice in order to break these patterns.

Speaker A: Someone who specialises in this area and who's working with people on a very day to day basis. What are some of the advice that's out there that you feel that actually that might not be as helpful as people might think it is.

Speaker B: Um, whenever you hear somebody say, well just do this, just do this, never going to work. Because again consciously I'm going to make this decision. Your subconscious Will pull you back. So that subconscious really needs to be worked on in order to get to where you need to be. So when people say, just do this or just do that, or change how you feel, control your emotions, you know, it's all well and good to say these things, but you're saying do this, but nobody's really telling you how. How can I control my emotions in the moment? And it takes time. It's not just one of these things that you just magically do. So that's why in regards to kind of like hypnotherapy and any other kind of therapy, not just hypnotherapy, those tools that we provide during those sessions really cultivate that foundation that I spoke about earlier.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So for anybody who's kind of listening to this and thinking, okay, I'm, um, identifying some of the things that you talked about, what would you say is perhaps one thing that it might be helpful for them to hear from someone

Speaker B: like yourself is to try and figure out who you are without being needed when you're not needed. If nobody came to you for two weeks to ask you for anything, who would you be in those two weeks? What would you do with your time? What would you do with your life? What would you do for yourself? And get to know that person? Try and figure out who you. A lot of people, a lot of the women who I work with, they literally organize their lives around their relationships. They won't book to go out for dinner with friends in case they miss out on connection with the partner and even vice versa. They're so engrossed in the connection that they completely forget who they are. So I would say, ask yourself, who am I when I'm not needed or when I'm not trying to close the gap in connection that's so powerful.

Speaker A: It's very difficult. So how did you come to this work? What kind of got you to be so focused and specialized in this, in this particular, um, area?

Speaker B: I think I am, um, kind of a people pleaser. Well, I'm not so much anymore, but I definitely, in my younger years, most definitely was a people pleaser. And I did find that, uh, I also abandoned myself throughout many different types of areas in my life, throughout my life, because I didn't understand myself. I didn't know who I was, and I was the go to person and I didn't have any boundaries. I would never say no. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, no worries, no worries. That's, um, fine. And then I'll scatter around My schedule. Okay, well, I can move this here, I can move that there. And a few years ago, I had kind of a physical and emotional breakdown. And, um, when I kind of had, it was kind of an awakening moment for me. And I was like, yeah, I need to start putting myself first. And it didn't happen overnight. It happened in those small moments where it's like, okay, what do I need to do for me today? And I would make sure that I did that today. And even if I didn't do a million other things, I wouldn't focus on that. I'd focus on that one thing and I'd be proud of myself for accomplishing that one thing for myself. And then after like a month, six weeks, I wanted to do more for myself and more for myself and more for myself. But until I literally became the centre of my life again, it wasn't about everybody else, it was just about me. And I could fit people in and still be kind, and still be generous and still help people where I can, because that is in my nature. But it no longer came from a place of fear, of connection. It came from a place of, I have capacity, I am overflowing in my own life because I'm taking care of myself. So I can come and I'll take care of you. I love that.

Speaker A: Ah. One of the things you talked about, you know, about abandoning yourself and then coming back to yourself, can you, I guess, shed a bit more light on that? Because I think it's a term that we see and people talk about it, but I imagine some people might be thinking, what does that even mean? You know, how do you know that you've abandoned yourself? What does that look like on a day to day basis?

Speaker B: So when you abandon yourself, let's just say, for example, you had something booked for yourself, a massage, and the person who you're seeing called you out of the blue, they've not made any plans like, oh, I've got some time, let me see you. You completely let that massage go. So you know what? I'll rearrange that. I'll do what I need to do there and go and close that gap in that connection. Because if I'm not available there and then they may go elsewhere to fulfill that, to fulfill that. And not in a kind of cheating way or anything along those lines, but they may go and hang out with the friends and it's not me who they're coming to. So, um, those moments where you say no to yourself and say yes to everybody else, those are those small moments in daily life, when you know you don't have the capacity, you inside, right here in your chest is screaming, absolutely not, Victoria, do not do it. Do not say it. Do not do it. Absolutely not. And you still turn around and say, yes, okay, no problem. Um, and everything that you need and everything that you need to do is put on the back burner.

Speaker A: I feel like I can hear. I can hear a lot of people nodding away, thinking, oh, my goodness. I feel like it's. It's very easy to do, isn't it? That's the thing. I think as women, it is. It's very, very easy to kind of fall into that trap or to get in, get into that position, because I think so naturally that a lot of us are in those positions where, you know, you do end up taking care of somebody or looking after somebody or being there for somebody. Um, and then it's easy to kind of take things too far, isn't it? Definitely it is.

Speaker B: And I think, um, one thing for me that I've kind of noticed is because these behaviors are so praised socially, they're such a good person. They're so giving, they're so kind, they're so nice. They're always there for people, you know, very altruistic, but they don't see the depth of how far that goes. So because it's so praised, we create this belief with us, especially as women, as the nurturers, uh, we create this belief in us. If I'm not there for people, I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person. But who's there for you? Who's showing up for you?

Speaker A: This is actually really very, uh, not even enlightening because I do know that I've got those people pleasing tendencies within myself. But it's challenging to hear. It's difficult to hear when you know and, you know you've done it or, you know, you do it. I've definitely like yourself. I've improved a lot. You know, as you say, it's not an easy thing to do, is it? When you're kind of so used, the natural feeling is you want. You want to be there, you know, And I always think, well, it's not from a place of fear. It's just from a place of. But I care about that person. But actually maybe I need to sit with myself and analyze. Actually, maybe it's from a place of fear if you can't actually not do it and it's pushing yourself to, um, unhealthy levels. I think that's the thing, isn't it? I think it's when is it too far? I think that's the kind of main question, isn't it? When is being there and being kind and being altruistic and supporting people? When does it cross the boundary to abandon yourself and actually, um. We need to actually do something about it.

Speaker B: And I think that's one of the biggest struggles that people who I work with have, especially if it's a new connection. And I feel once they start doing this work, it's much more easy for them to start with the boundaries. But when you've not had boundaries for so long in a dynamic and then all of a sudden you start asserting your boundaries, it can create conflict, it can create fiction. Because the friction. Sorry. Because the other person's like, well, you're changing. You know, I don't. Like they feel like they've done something wrong because you're asserting your boundaries now. So it can cause a little bit of conflict. And I do think that that is the biggest challenge in people pleasers who do want to break those cycles is to start setting those boundaries. I've had situations where. Excuse me, sorry, I've had a client who's struggled with the boundaries. They've started asserting their boundaries and they've been very proud of themselves, but it has caused issues in the dynamic, and this has been in regards to their partner and their parents. So I have had situations where I've invited the other person into a session and just kind of spoken to them both, got what they, you know, where the other person's coming from as well, and really try to allow the other person to see where the. Where their partners are or where their child is at and what they're trying to achieve moving forward, that it's nothing personal to them. And then really try and fuse these changes into the dynamic itself so it becomes stronger rather than allowing the conflict to just fester.

Speaker A: I love that. So it's actually bringing in all the parties that might be involved actually into. Because it is. It's not just a siloed thing, is it? If you're changing, it's actually all encompassing. You mentioned actually that for you, you actually had to go to a point where it reached unhealthy or, you know, you weren't. Well, you said you had a bit of a breakdown in terms of what happened to you and what caused you to change. And I guess people listening, you know, we don't want people to be waiting until that point until you're having a breakdown. I think it's important to Start thinking about these things now, isn't it? So one of the things you said was for people who are identifying themselves or recognizing themselves, you would say, sit with yourself. Is that. Would you say that's kind of the best first step?

Speaker B: I would say yes. Sit with yourself and, um, just ask yourself that question. Who am I when I'm not needed? Who am I if I was alone for two weeks, what would I do? What would I do for myself if I didn't have to show up for anybody but me? How would I show up for myself? And sometimes even when you start thinking about that, uh, feelings of guilt automatically come up. Well, it's like, well, you know what? I'd actually do this for myself, and I'd do that for myself. And then they just start feeling. They've not even done it, but they start feeling guilty out of nowhere, just at the thought of them doing something for themselves. So if those feelings do come up, it's completely normal, it's completely natural. Don't let it consume you. Just continue asking yourself that question. Write it down. Feel what you need to feel, come back to it. You don't have to do it all at once, but just really trying to figure out who you are by yourself. When it comes to the. I don't like to use the term negative emotions, neither in my work, but just for, again, lack of a better term. Uh, excuse me.

Speaker A: Sorry.

Speaker B: When it comes to emotions, the negative ones, we resist them so much. If it doesn't feel pleasurable, we avoid it till the death. We don't want to know it. But getting to know those emotions and getting to know those parts of us and what lies underneath those emotions, what is the core belief underneath those emotions, that's where the work really begins. So allowing yourself to feel that and being okay with feeling, that is intense, very intense when you're not used to it. But as you kind of move through, just start, uh, small, let's just say five minutes, for example. You notice yourself feeling guilt, you notice yourself feeling shame, um, anger, whatever the case may be. Sit with it for just five minutes. Don't put your phone on, don't put the telly on, don't put music on. Don't put anything on for five minutes. Allow it to breathe. Because the more you avoid it, the more you resist it, the more you become it. So sit with it five minutes at a time, and you'll get to know those parts of you, what we term as kind of the shadow aspects of ourselves. And, uh, that is where all the juicy bits uh, are of who we are. That is really who we are. But we just hide it from the world. So that's where the meaty bits lie. So it is unnerving at first. But as you practice it on a daily basis, whenever you feel like it comes up for you, it becomes a lot easier. Just like when you start going back to the gym after you've not worked out for a year and you're not going to start lifting 250 on your first day, you start small.

Speaker A: One of the things that made me chuckle was this, the sitting with emotions. You said, don't play any music. And I thought, oh, uh, just put some music on. That was what I was thinking.

Speaker B: A lot of people I like to put. Even when I do it for myself because I still do it as an ongoing practice. It's not something that you do one time and then it's done. So I still do this within myself as well. I do like to have meditation music on in the background. But when something is very intense for me, so if something really intense comes up or if something happens that makes me react very intensely, I will sit in silence. I will put anything on M. Because it is a way of, ah, avoiding it is a distraction from what you are actually doing, you know. So a lot of people like, for me, I'm a smoker. So before I used to be like, oh my God, I'm so stressed out, let me light up a cigarette. Whereas now I'm like, no, just don't do anything. Allow that, uh, feeling to move through you and it will leave. It's not going to stay there forever.

Speaker A: Something we all need to hear, isn't it? We think these, it's that when you feel that feeling, you want to get rid of it as quickly as possible, don't you? And you feel like if you sit and feel it, it's going to kill you or something.

Speaker B: Yes, you do. You feel like it's going to consume you and you're going to become that emotion.

Speaker A: Yes, it's the opposite.

Speaker B: But you really don't. You really don't. Because if you resist it and you push it down, it will come out in your life in other ways. So when you're reacting, all of these feelings that you're pushing down are coming out in those moments. So you're, you're not able to respond in those moments because you have so much pent up emotion. It's just coming out as a reaction

Speaker A: through the work that people are doing with you and through, um, I guess working through the People pleasing and actually coming back to themselves. What have been or what are some of the really positive kind of changes that people can expect kind of in the wider sense of their lives, in their relationships. And also as you say, you know, how does that then bleed out? What kind of positive things have you had? People come back and say, wow, you know, this has really changed.

Speaker B: So there's so many stories. Um, and to be fair, I know it's not a very clinical thing to do, but I do quite make friends with a lot of my clients. We always check in with, I always check in with them just to see how they're going. And some of the things that these women have been able to do and go on, um, to do when they have started doing that inner work and building that in the foundation and choosing themselves is just immense because not only do they start choosing themselves as they choose themselves, they start living as a kind of, from a kind of intuitive way. So it's like they're being led intuitively and they've manifested so many different things. They've changed careers, marriages have strengthened. And there was one lady who couldn't, wasn't struggling, I should say, to have children. And after six months of her really doing that work, she got pregnant and she was so happy. Uh, so there was just, there's so many blockages that people have just overcome and they've, they're just living some fulfilled lives. That's what, that's what they're kind of living though, is just fulfilled lives.

Speaker A: I absolutely love that. I think that's what I really want people to kind of take away from this, is that it's not something, it's not isolated work. This isn't a case of, okay, you're a people pleaser within your relationship, go and work with Vicky, sort that out. And everything else is kind of in these separate little bubbles and because actually everything spills into everything, doesn't it? And if you do that in a work, and one of the things you also said is that it's an ongoing practice, these things aren't, um, you did something, it's done and you've kind of moved on. It's the continual practice of this inner work that you're doing. And the reason I love hearing, you know, the kind of stories of some of the clients and what's happened to them is that it just goes to show that actually these inner foundational pieces actually have such a far reaching impact than we could ever imagine, isn't it? Because as you say, it's blocks and These kind of conscious, unknown blocks are impacting lots of things that are unknown to us. Definitely.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love it. So I guess as we come towards the close then from your perspective in terms of the people that you work with, when would you say, guys, you know, come and talk to me, get in contact, don't wait until you're feeling the resentment, the frustration, you know, all of those things that you've been pushing down or ignoring come through there. Some signs or some indicators that actually it's probably worth starting to do this work earlier, early on, perhaps, um, making contact with you early on, I would

Speaker B: say, when you get to a point. So as I mentioned earlier, the, uh, being the reliable one, being the one that people come to feels very good and validating at first. But then it gets to a point where you start to feel unseen in your dynamics, so you might need something. And again you're automatically saying, well, the person should know, they should know I know them and I show up for them, so they should just automatically know I shouldn't have to say anything. So when it gets to that point where you feel unseen in your dynamics, that's the time to start. It's the time because from there it's just a downward spiral. You're already feeling unseen, you know, you can't express your needs. Uh, and that's just going to lead to resentment, it's going to lead to the anger, it's going to lead to complete burnout. So even if it's not just in your romantic relationships, even if it's at work, you're not feeling seen, you're not feeling appreciated, you're not feeling heard, that's the moment to start seeking somebody to unpack that with as to what you can do then at that point to start strengthening yourself in order to show up for yourself.

Speaker A: And it sounds like it's a real sense of self. It's coming from a sense of self, isn't it? It's coming from. Oh, or a lack of sense of self. Is that the best kind of way to put it, this challenge, I would

Speaker B: say it would be, uh, a lack of sense of self. Yes. Because people pleasers and people with anxious attachment, they're like a chameleon. So because they have to be so many different things for so many different people. And uh, because you are so hyper vigilant on the subtle shifts, anything, anything that's kind of going on, if, if there's an off text message, if there's an okay with no kiss, you literally spiral just over for the fact that there's no kiss. And you think, what's going on? What's happened? What. What they're going through? And then you again, you immediately try to close the gap. So you become who you need to be in that moment to close that gap. So you don't really know who you are because you're constantly adapting all the time.

Speaker A: I love that. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: I'm so.

Speaker A: I'm laughing only because it's like too many things are too resonant. That's.

Speaker B: Get to that point.

Speaker A: Yes, I think I do honestly believe that so many. It's something that a lot of people do struggle with, for sure. And it's, as you say, because we're also living so out there now, aren't we? Because it's kind of. There's a lot of noise out there that. Coming back to self and actually listening to yourself and remembering who on earth you are and what it is that you want. It's easy to not do that, isn't it? That's the thing.

Speaker B: It is. It is. Absolutely. Because every day it's just one of those. I think society also has a very big impact on how we operate as women as well. I know I mentioned that before, but what's kind of expected of us as women, especially with all of this masculine, feminine energy torrent that's going around of late? You know, what it truly means to be a feminine woman, what it really means to be a masculine man. And it lands so much expectation on women that we forget our own purpose. Our purpose isn't to serve the world. Our purpose is our path. It's our purpose. We're not here for absolutely everybody. We're not Superwoman.

Speaker A: Definitely. And I definitely would agree that it starts with. It starts with you, doesn't it starts kind of from in here.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I think if everybody does do that work, I think it just has kind of a natural effect that everything kind of flows better anyway, doesn't it? I love that.

Speaker B: So it is a ripple effect. Most definitely.

Speaker A: Definitely does. It definitely does. So I think, you know, you've given us some great examples of some of the positive changes and impacts that can happen when you do work on that. People pleasing and things and signs that we can look out for, if, you know, potential kind of signs that, okay, maybe this is something we need to start taking action on. And also some really great, um, exercises and foundational pieces of work that we can start to kind of put into place. So thank you so much. That's been really valuable.

Speaker B: Very welcome.

Speaker A: What would Be your last kind of couple of things or last words of wisdom that you would want to kind of leave with any women out there who feel like, oh my goodness, you know, I need to be there for people, because if I'm not, then I don't know the world's going to end.

Speaker B: Well, your people too. That would be my advice. You, you, you're, you need to be there for people, but you are people. And um, I think the most important relationship we will ever have in our life is the one with ourselves. Because we have to live with ourselves day in, day out, from, from birth till death. Other people may come and go. So allow that to be, uh, the, the priority in your life, the relationship that you have with yourself. Because even if you don't have a positive, or let's not the word positive, but if you don't have a integrated relationship with yourself, that can also spill out into how you, how you operate in many different things. And even in regards to your children, how you raise your children, and all those little things that can, that can really spill out. So it's not selfish to put yourself as a priority. It might feel selfish, but you can work through that. Your relationship should be the biggest priority.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. And so for people who kind of want to find out a bit more about working with you or the work we were doing, what's the best way to get in contact with you?

Speaker B: Well, you can check out my website, um, all of my details are on there in regards to my one to one sessions. I also do weekly circles, group circles for people who struggle with people pleasing and anxious attachment, really getting down to the nitty gritty belief, um, and just kind of reframing that in a way that they start to believe different things about themselves. So it's getting to those core beliefs, flipping them around, really working with them so that they can start to build that foundation. Because if those beliefs stay the same, we can't build that foundation. So we need to work on that first.

Speaker A: It's been such an interesting conversation, this journey into people pleasing and kind of the challenges and what, you know, what it can lead you to. This path of destruction, I guess ultimately leading to kind of burnout and all of those sorts of things. And it's really fantastic that you're doing this really good work. So thank you so much. Thank you so much, Vicky. It's been a really good. You're very, uh, welcome and I really appreciate all your insights.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure and I'VE really enjoyed meeting you. You've got such a lovely energy. It's been. It's really been a pleasure being here, so thank you so much.

Speaker A: Uh.