197. The Grief of Reinvention: Divorce, Career Pivots & Becoming a New Version of Yourself

You're listening to the grief series, a collection of conversations, exploring something I think that we simply just do not talk about enough, and that is grief. And it's not just something that we experience when someone dies, it's woven throughout our lives in motherhood and ambition and aging and divorce and identity, relationships, business, and even in the becoming of who we are, because every version of ourselves we gain requires us to let another version go. I hope that you see yourself somewhere in these stories and these very raw, very real conversations.

Welcome back to the Shamelessly Ambitious Podcast. We are in our grief series. And once again, I'm just gonna sound so repetitive throughout this entire series. I'm just so excited for this conversation because every single woman that I'm bringing here are not just women that I admire and that I, you know, am cheering on and witnessing, but they're women I've worked with, women that are my friends, women that I care for, women that I can't get enough of.

And so that's exactly who I wanted to bring to you. And so today I have a very, very special guest. Now, I have to share the context of like our relationship because it feels so romantic. I love that.

So we are bold, we're both inside of this networking community. I've talked about it before. It's called the Mixer Minder and Mixer Mind. And we connected.

I can't remember. Did I reach out to you? Did you I don't remember who like I think I reached out for a coffee chat with you. Okay, okay.

So we had a coffee chat, which is sort of the intention behind this group, right? Is that everybody's, you know, there's all these spaces that are created for you, but you're supposed to sort of be your own advocate and go out and meet all these women. So we had a coffee chat and we connected, and I just felt like instant chemistry. Like it just felt like the stars aligned and we just enjoyed each other so much.

And it was just so good. And from that conversation, we ultimately made a decision to partner and do this swap where we would mentor one another because we both had these really cool assets and things that we could bring to the table. And it just felt like an even cooler way to progress our friendship is to have this opportunity to also show off our skills and support one another. And that was so good.

It was so juicy. I loved every second of it, both as the mentor and as the receiver. And then we ended up starting another group chat with another gal that somehow we had both kind of known that it was a good connection. Anyways, all this to say I'm flying to Spain in September to spend time with this woman because that's how much I love her.

And so I'm so grateful to bring her to this conversation. Delia, thank you for being here. You give everybody your own little intro because I just could go off on an obsessive trail if you gave me the opportunity, but I'd love for you to share who you are and what you do and where you are, and we'll get into the ghosts. Oh, Ash, thank you.

And the feeling is neutral. It really was. Love at Past Coffee. So yeah, so my name is Delia and I have been on a journey, haven't we?

All I've spent the last, I'm like, where do I start? I spent the last six years working mainly in messaging and positioning. So really helping people that have these brilliant businesses and these amazing offers talk about it in a way that captures their brilliance and amazingness. Because so many people have these fabulous offers, and it's just like I just can't quite find the words to talk about it.

So I was doing that and I was loving it. Um, I was mainly doing a lot of copywriting, but also doing some messaging as well, some coaching as well. And I was loving it, but meanwhile, behind the scenes, I got divorced, I became a single mom, I moved house like three times in a year, two years, and I just went on this huge personal develop development journey of my own. And I just felt like more and more I had this calling to be using that and using what I'd been through to help people.

So today I am helping people who really are looking for the next thing in life. Like, what am I gonna do next? They're maybe feeling unfulfilled in what they're doing, maybe feeling like it's not a lot of purpose in it, but are like no idea what they're doing. And I work with them to help them really figure out the pivot and then figure out the positioning.

So have to talk about it. So I haven't completely abandoned the messaging. Love it, I love it. And you share where you're from originally, because I feel like people hear it, but yes, guilty.

So I'm British, English from just outside of London. But I moved to Barcelona nine years ago. And I've been living in Barcelona. And before that, like you spent a long time living all around the world and living out of a suitcase for like five years.

So um, yeah, I haven't lived in the UK for a while. Yeah. So when I was developing this series, it the whole concept to me was this idea, you know, per a conversation with somebody, where it really hit me, like we are all as women, especially those of us who identify as ambitious, we are all experiencing different forms of grief all the time. In fact, one big aha that I've had is all these incredible women that I'm bringing on to this series, I can relate to every one of their stories to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm literally in the crux of grief, like nonstop, because I can relate all of it.

But Delia, you were someone I thought of almost immediately because we have had the gift of getting to know one another. And I've had the opportunity, you know, when I worked with you specifically, one of the things that we had done during our studio session together was really dig into your story. I wanted to hear it all. And one of the things that I do, and Delia can speak to this too, is I'm kind of pulling out these nuts and bolts to figure out like, where is this person wanting to go?

What are the through lines to what they're sharing? And I had this beautiful opportunity to hear a lot of your story and what you've been through and the grief that you have experienced. And one of, you know, a lot of the stories blew me away. But one of the reasons why I thought of you and bringing you here was because of all these transitions you've had in your professional career.

Yes, I want to talk about divorce. There's grief in that, of course, too. But in your professional career, I'd love for you to share. I know that you were once a journalist and then you turned into more, and then now you've turned into more.

I'd love to hear that journey, that experience, that behind the scenes, because I think a lot of people, you know, transition is hard. And I think a lot of people, when they go through it, don't know what the hell they're doing and feel really isolated. Yeah. And it really can be so isolating.

And there is so much grief when you are leaving something behind and stepping into the next thing. So to give a snapshot, I sometimes joke that I'm like a cat with seven lives, and I think I'm now on like my fifth life. Hopefully, I've got more than seven actually, in that case. So I started out as a journalist, and that is what I'd always wanted to do.

My dad was a journalist. So I would be eating my breakfast, looking up at him, reading his newspaper, telling me about life in the newsroom. And I was like, oh, Daddy, this is what I want to do too. And, you know, I was that kid who always knew what she wanted to do to the envy of many of my friends.

And when I went off to uni, I went off to study history and politics specifically because I knew I already wanted to be a political journalist. So did that, and then I did a conversion course into journalism, and I spent five years working on a daily newspaper in the UK, and I worked up to political correspondence, and I loved so much about it. And it was like, you know, you're 20, I would guess I was like 22, 23 when I started-ish. And you're there in your 20s, and you're like, okay, I've done it.

I've done my life dream. This is what I wanted to do my whole life. Like, and I'm living it and I'm loving it, and it's fun. I interviewed prime ministers and like traveled to Brussels and the European Parliament and all these things.

But then at some point, I had to admit that I wasn't sure I wanted it forever. And that was really tricky because I was also very ambitious and I was working on a paper in a city called Nottingham. So the next step would be to move on to one of the big nationals in London. And I was like, oh, do I do that?

Do I not? Or do I just go traveling and honour what I really want to do right now, which is just walk away from all the stress, walk away from the long shifts, and just go traveling. And I did that. And then I'm gonna jump ahead to just say what I went on to because it was such contrast to journalism.

I then basically became a travel consultant, partner of a travel company. So whilst I was traveling, somebody said to me, Hey, do you want to help grow this travel company with me? And I am an opportunist. And I was like, Yeah, okay.

So I did that for 10 years. And I had many moments of grief in that decision because like that was my childhood dream. It wasn't just your first job out of college when you don't really know what you want to do. It was like, I think I'd pinned a lot of my identity on that.

So I took a lot of pride in saying to people, I'm a journalist, I'm a reporter, I'm a political correspondent. And then when I gave it up to go traveling the world, it felt like I'd meet people and be like, oh, I'm a journalist, I'm just taking a year out. You were so hooked to that being your identity. Yeah, absolutely.

And then even when I was a travel, I'd been working in the travel business for a while, when people used to ask me what I did, I wouldn't always tell them. Because I was like embarrassed that I wasn't doing what I was meant to be doing. I guess that was the ego, right? I just was like, oh, I'm a journalist and at the moment I'm doing travel writing and I'm but I wasn't.

I was building a travel company. So it was and even even now, you know what I love actually? In Spanish, I don't know how much Spanish you speak or if and if you're listening to this, we have two different so I live in Spain now, we have two different verbs for to be. So to be has two different verbs.

One is present in the present moment, and one is forever. So it's like you are forever something, or you are just something for now. And with your with with careers, they always say that you are forever what you have been. So if you were to say in Spanish, I was a journalist, you use the forever verb.

So it's like I was a journalist forever. And I remember saying to somebody, but that doesn't make sense because I'm not a journalist anymore. That's temporary. And they were like, but is it temporary?

Is there a bit of your soul that's always a journalist? And I was like, I love that. Yeah, okay, say it in Spanish, so we need to hear it. Okay.

So um temporary would be estuve peodista. Peodista is journalist, estuve is the past for to be. Or you would say era, era peodista. I was peodista, I was journalist, and that's the forever.

Wow. I really love that because I feel like throughout my life I've had a lot of different eras of what my career looked like and what my title looked like, and and I'm sure I'll have many, many more. And my through line has been therapist. And I have really struggled with that too.

You know, when I pivoted into network marketing and I was doing more nutrition coaching and speaking, and even when I was, even when I was, when I first started my private practice, pretty quickly afterwards, I became like the majority of where my work was was consulting with other therapists who wanted to build their private practice because I had had this success and they wanted that. And so then it was more lucrative for me. I enjoyed it more than the actual traditional therapy.

But I too really struggled with separating myself because it was like, no, no. And less of I wanted to be it my whole life. I probably didn't figure out I wanted to be a therapist until I was actually in college. But more of the I spent seven years becoming a therapist.

I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars becoming a therapist. I can't possibly be anything else that would be so unwise and wrong and all those things. And I had to untangle that before I even came to recognize that it is who I am. And I will always, I'll be a therapist when I'm a mom, I'm a therapist when I'm a wife, I'm a therapist when I'm a friend.

And I had to come to this point of existence where I embraced it as like a really beautiful feature of who I am, even though I don't personally identify with a traditional therapist that is still very much in my core. So I love that you say that because I think that is true. And knowing you the way that I know you, I see the journalist in everything that you do. But yes, there's a ton of grief in that experience of moving from one thing to the next.

And moreover, you've done that more recently. I would love for you to talk about that because it actually was the crux of our call when I was the mentor in this particular setting and I was supporting you. Talk about what you came to the call feeling and what you were experiencing. Because I think people are feeling that now.

Yeah, I mean, this call was like it was life-changing, and I didn't say that lightly. It was a phenomenal 90 minutes. So I came to the call feeling disillusioned with what I was doing and feeling like it was no longer fully aligned to who I'd become and what I wanted to do, which was copywriting. So I'll always love messaging and positioning, but specifically writing people's copy for them.

And I'd felt that in the AI era that we're in, I honestly I felt like my trade had been devalued overnight. I'd gone from being able to charge thousands for five-page website copy to really feeling like I was being compared to Claude's $20 a month prize talk. And you're not the only one, too. So I that's why I'm making you talk about this because I'm like, I'm hearing it from so many people, but yes, of course, copywriters, but so many industries that are like, who am I in this?

And do and does anybody want what I have to offer? And just the internal battle of that, even when you start to play with AI. Yeah. I mean, we spoke about AI a bit, and it's like the more you use it sometimes, the the worse the impact is on you.

You know, I felt like it had impacted my critical thinking, it affected my self-esteem. I was like, Jesus. But it had really, really made me fall out of love with writing. I felt like it had actually rubbed the joy from it because I was either not using it and powering through and getting into flow and enjoying it, but then I would feel this need to keep up with others and to be ahead of the curve.

And so then I'd be using it a little bit. And anyway, I also just felt that more than anything, I just felt devalued by it. And I also feel like, yes, AI was a catalyst, I guess. It was, it was something that that mm that brought it on sooner, but I felt like it was probably inevitable because I really believe like in life, when you go on a personal journey, so often your career has to evolve with you.

You know, you can't just be doing the same career that you chose to be doing six years ago because you're not the same person six years ago, right? So if you're ignoring that internal evolution, then it's so tricky. Anyway, back to the cool. So we I came to the cool feeling terribly disillusioned.

And I had this idea that I really wanted to help people, women post-divorce, transition and really like change their life and become like their best versions of themselves post-divorce. And they had this excited feeling, and I I left you a little voice note before our call saying, I've got this really exciting little idea, but I'm sure it won't bring me in any money. And so we'll focus on the messaging, we'll tackle that, you know. And then we get on this call, and you're like, So tell me about this silly little idea you've got.

And within 10 minutes, it was like everything was blown apart, like fully blown apart. You just made me realize that if I didn't act on following what I was feeling called to do next, that I'd just be living without congruence. I'd just be living I'd be stuck. I would be stuck.

And it was like in that cool, you gave me this this opportunity to free myself. And I was like, yeah, I gotta jump. I'm jumping. I was like, shit Ash, I'm jumping.

You did. You took action so fast, which I love, and it's terrifying, it's so terrifying. And I think this is uh it's a a touch of an epidemic right now that I'm witnessing in so many people. This just like, where do I fit in in this?

What actually works? What do I want to do? And there's essentially these two pathways. There's the pathway of holding on with all your might to the thing that you have always done and changing your pricing or changing your offer or changing your marketing or changing something and and and pushing and pushing and pulling and pulling and trying and trying, which is very costly.

It is very costly. And I'm not even saying that's necessarily the wrong decision, because I think there are times in our life where we need to turn on our tenacity and fight with all we've got to get through if we really, really believe it. But the big issue with you was that you were coming and you were feeling that and you were also doing the things. You had just gone through what $12,000 rebrand?

Yeah. Right? Right? Guilty.

The grief that came with that as well. Oh gosh. Beautiful rebrand. So you and we've done we've all been there, right?

You you're doing the rebrand, you're changing the offers, you're trying to get creative, you're doing sales. And again, we've all been here. So you're doing all these things. But the biggest through line that I recognized in you that I hope that the listeners can sort of question themselves in was the lack of joy, was the the anguish that came with sitting down in your office again to do the thing.

The fear, I think that was the one of the biggest things. You had so much fear of like what comes next, as opposed to the kind of fear that is also coded in excitement. Because fear doesn't, it's not like we we take ourselves away from fear. Fear always exists, right?

I actually always tell people that I think that fear is the light that takes us from where we are to where we're meant to go and we must follow it. But there's a certain kind of fear. There's the fear that tells us I can't operate in this state without operating from scarcity. And I cannot change that no matter what I do.

I am in scarcity. And there's the kind of fear that is laced with excitement and hope and like, I literally have no idea if I'm gonna make it, but I'm so thrilled to jump off this cliff and to try this thing. And you were at this point, right at the edge of the cliff, where you had kind of been wrapped up in rope that was toggling you back, and you were trying to get to the edge. You felt the need for something different, but you were also kind of pulling yourself back.

And so I believe that on that call, we cut the rope. Oh, we cut the rope. We cut the rope, and I went flying. So tell us because I love there's this thing that happened for you where you, and I think we worked through a lot of this on the call too, and even after the call, you had to let go.

Talk to us about that process. Yeah, and there was so much excitement because it excited fear, the type of fear exactly like you say. I just love what you just said about the fear taking you to the light you need to go. I just, and I think that's what I did on that call, right?

We cut the rope, and then I just blindly followed the light with the fear and a lot of excitement. And I got off the call, and the next day I changed my social media profile, and I changed the bio and I put out a post explaining what was happening. And so I really ripped off the plaster. There was, and I tried not to, right?

I mean, you may remember on the call, I was like, okay, so maybe I just I'll try this new thing, like behind the scenes, and you very quickly were like, uh-uh, we're gonna cut the rope. Absolutely. So I I did the thing and and I let it go. And it was equal parts terrifying and exciting.

I had a lot of fear around money, which from our cool as a single mom, I feel a lot of pressure to earn well. Every month, you know, it's just me. There's no no sugar daddy yet. Joking independent woman.

I don't need a man. And so I had all this fear around money because it wasn't just letting go of okay, I am a messaging expert copywriter. I knew that that had brought me in six figures for the last five consecutive years. So I was also letting go of this concept that that was what would continue to bring money in.

That was probably the hardest. And I'm not gonna lie, it still comes up sometimes. It's still that like I've let that thing go that brought in that money, like that attachment to the income that it brought me in. That's been a really hard part of letting go.

And the other element that I think was hard was in the last six years working in that field, I've built up a lot of credibility, expertise, and have worked with really big names in the industry I was working in. And so you I believe what you just said about like with therapy, you put in seven years of work for that. And there was that too. There was a feeling of like, I have just made a name for myself, right?

I am just getting now, my name is getting passed around in high circles. I have made it. Hurrah! And then I'm just giving it all up.

My my mother hung up on me when she found out. Like you didn't tell me that. Oh, yeah, I don't, yeah, that that came after. I had to I blocked her with love on Instagram.

Oh my goodness. Oh, yeah. There's truth to that too, right? The process of like how other people experience your shifts.

Because I will say, I mean, I'm notorious for triggering people. It's something I've really had to get comfortable with. And comfortable is a far-fetched word because I still hate it. I mean, I I hate rejection.

I I want everybody to love me. That's my that's my through line. But I trigger the shit out of people. So a lot of people end up not liking me in air quotes because I my life and how I live my life really points out the things that other people are not willing to do because I have done a lot of very, yes, courageous.

And I will say that boldly and confidently, very courageous things in my life, whether it's, you know, selling a business that was making multiple six figures because I'm all done with it. I just don't want to. I'm moving on to the next thing, starting a brand new one with a six-week-old baby, like traveling the world, selling everything, everything we've done. And yes, I'd have absolutely made people around me wonder, what the hell are you doing?

Ask a lot of questions. I remember a friend once said to me, I'll never ever forget this. I had said that we were gonna travel again. And she had just said, you know, I think she meant it to, she meant it well.

It was like one of those backhanded compliments. But essentially she was like, I just really hope that you find what it, whatever it is that you keep looking for and you could truly be happy. Oh God. God right?

And you know that her thought of that is like you're in that case and you never stay still, you never stick with anything. And of course, that's a big fear that I is there something wrong with me? How many times have you thought that? Like, why can't I just get a fucking job and stay at the job and stay in the house and like wear all these people?

But that's not who we are. No, that is not who we are. No, and I am really fine with that. Yes, same.

Even though there's moments where you're in transition and you're maybe looking over at those friends that have that stable job, have that solid pension coming in soon, and you think, oh, I wouldn't actually change it, but nothing. Because what we're doing is we are like, we're feeling what we really want to be doing right now, and we are acting on it. Yeah. Like that's living, right?

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. In fact, I was recently working with a client and I I might have already shared this on the podcast, so y'all listening are gonna hear it again.

But she essentially came to me and she's had a lot of big things happen in her business recently. And she has a very, very successful business. And she basically said, I just, I really thought by this point I would finally be stable and everything would be consistent and I would feel safe. And you know me, I'm like, honey, with love.

If you want consistency, stability, or safety, go get a fucking job because entrepreneurship is not where you find it. And she was like, You're so right. And also, I could never get a job. And I was like, the longer that we attach an unrealistic expectation to the thing that brings us alive, the further we are from feeling the contentment that we can have right now.

Wow. Yeah. There's no such thing as the stability that we think we're gonna get in this line of work because every time I get near stability, I get bored. I was just about to say that.

I only crave it because I don't have it. When I have it, I'm bored. And part of, I mean, we kind of, this is the funny thing that I've recognized in all these conversations is we kind of, not in all circumstances, but in many, create our own grief. It doesn't change just because you're bored or you're feeling uncomfortable or you want to shift to something else, it doesn't take away the fact that you're gonna have to go through the grieving process.

But part of it is because we are bold enough to go, I don't want this anymore. I'm gonna do the scary thing, walk away from the consistent revenue or the safety of people knowing my name or whatever the case may be. And I'm gonna go all in because I want to feel alive all the time, not just 10% of the time. Yes.

And the irony is that then you're you're stepping into living, aren't you? Even though you're grieving what you've let go, like you just say, you're stepping into living 90% of the time. And I think we have to let go and we have to grieve for the doors to open. We do.

And grief is, I mean, I don't know what the exact quote is, but we've all heard it. This idea of like to lose is to love. Grief comes on the other side of going all in on something. And so oftentimes we experience grief in the loss of somebody that we love who who passes.

That feeling, albeit horrible, wouldn't exist if we didn't fully love, if we didn't fully experience the gift of human connection. The same is true in every other part of our life. And so whether we're grieving, one of the last episodes was our the way we look and the way we change with age and the way all of a sudden you look at your reflection and you have to grieve that you're never gonna see that 20-something year old. Or grieving kids, you know.

I often talk about I look at my kids and I love them to pieces, but I look at old pictures of them as babies, and it's almost like that version of them as a baby died because I know Oh gosh, yeah, I do that again. I never get to hold that baby again. I never, you know, so grief is everywhere, but it's everywhere that's beautiful. Yeah, it's so true.

I love that. Because you have to have loved something to Quiva, otherwise you just wouldn't care, would you? Yeah. And we can't, we also can't ignore it.

If you're going through these massive transitions, which likely most people are in some case in their life, we have to be willing to, it's like a twofold, two-pronged, if you will. One side of it is letting go of that thing, which has to happen from actually processing the grief, from processing with you. I love the questions of like, what am I taking with me and what am I leaving behind? If this idea of being a copywriter, what parts of it are you gonna actually pull and pick apart and grab in your bag and go to the rest, I love you.

You've been amazing, you've served me well, and farewell and walk on. It's not saying goodbye to all of it, it's it's taking parts with you. That's that idea of like always being a journalist. You're always going to, even when we did our call and you were the mentor, it was very much around messaging and the way that you asked questions and the way that you investigated, like that's what made me gain clarity is having your brain and the way that you process.

And so what has happened since you let go, you fully embraced, you jumped off the cliff into something completely unknown. And I know a few doors have opened outside of you know the work that we did of actually looking for proof that there was signs that you needed to take this leap all before you even did it. But what happened? Oh my gosh, so much happened.

Like I went from a place of being so stuck. And I before our call, I think I said this to you, I that week I had pitched 40 different people for work in my in the traditional copywriting. And every time I sat down to write an email, it was like so difficult because I didn't want to do it. The resistance was so high.

So I was, and I say this because I was working so hard to try and make it work. And then I chuck it all in the bin, I let it go, I say, that's out. I do a couple of dramatic Instagram posts. And a couple of dramatic Instagram posts.

And I have like six people in my DMs saying, oh my gosh, I'm going through this transition. I'd love I'd love your help. And to the point where I couldn't keep up with it because I had another I had another project I was finishing, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is all happening. And then I was like, and you know, I was being really open on Instagram and saying, okay, if I'm stepping into like pivot coaching or transition coaching or, you know, however we want to call it, I'm helping you discover what comes next.

And we talked about this, you helped me with this. Like, I need to embody and model what the this is what's happening to me too. So I was very much showing up as like, I don't know exactly what this is gonna look like yet. You know, I wasn't saying I've got some, you know, super duper offer and I've been doing this for X years.

It was like really me coming on in my pajamas on Instagram going, well, just chuck the business in the bin. So I'm gonna help others do the same now. Like, you know, and even with that just being the only marketing that I did, I got six different people that came into my DMs. I've ended up working with three of them as clients, and they are all going beautifully.

And the universe, you know, gives as she gives. And so all three of them are complete different types of transitions, as if the universe is just going, try try all three of these different types and help you figure out your niche. You don't need to figure it out on your own. We'll give you the work to figure that out.

And then the same week as well, I ended up launching this 21-day challenge with a good friend of mine, and we've been wanting to work together for a long time, and we did, and it's not completely related to this, but we had such a ball doing that challenge that now we're looking at starting a podcast together and going broader and talking about some of these things and concepts on our podcast. And yeah, so it just feels like, and this is without me having done any marketing other than just a couple of dramatic posts.

That's it. And it just it's authenticity, right? There's no sales pages. Hear that, no sales pages, there's no perfect emails, there's no funnel, there's no nothing.

What's so attractive is that it's raw and it's real. And I think we forget that. I'm more often than not, I'm like, I just those first couple, even weeks, months, years of entrepreneurship when you're just like, I don't know. This is just what it is.

It's fun, it's exciting. And as much as we can call that in amazing in our business, or maybe there's a call to do something different. And I'm just, I'm so proud of you for doing it, for following through with it. Because yeah, the pressure is real and the pressure to provide and to support and to be okay financially, that's not to be forgotten in the midst of all this.

Because I think that's one thing that, yeah, we can say, oh, follow your alignment and do what feels good and da da-da. But one thing we talked about, which I've talked about plenty of times here and with all my clients, is at the end of the day, if you're feeling the scarcity of I have to provide, I have to create money, and you're believing that the only way to do it is just one way, you're already 10 steps behind. Put your scrappy ass bitch hat on, write a list of a hundred ways that you can make money, remind yourself what you're capable of.

And we did that too. We took some time to really make sure you knew this is not, we're not like this has to work or else, because that's not the energy you want to go into anything with, right? Yeah. Here's a million different ways that this could work.

Here's all the different ways that I can make money and all the different things that I could do to bring in revenue. And I think I think that's important to say because more often than not, we do hear the walk in alignment, do what feels good, manifest more. And nobody's saying, no, I have fucking three kids. I have groceries to put in the refrigerator, I have sports to pay for, I have a car I need to.

I can't just hope that it happens. Yeah. I just think that's an important caveat to add. Oh, a hundred percent.

And I was so glad that we did that together because I yes, energetically I wanted to go all in. Yeah. But financially, practically, I wouldn't have been able to go all in energetically if we hadn't have done that exercise of looking at everything on my list. I've shared that list with a few friends actually, and just for shits and giggles, and they love that number 45 was mentoring.

com. So if you're listening to this and you're like, what 50 things can I do to add some more cash? There are people that will pay for fronts. There are, I mean, I could give you a hundred ideas right now.

This is sort of my tool in my tool belt. It's like I I love this kind of stuff. I'm always creatively looking at ways that like, hell, why not? Actually, somebody in our neighborhood recently was like, We're leaving town and we need somebody to watch our house and play with our animals and we're gonna pay.

And I was like, great, I'll do it. Like, why not? You know, like I'm not my doors are not closed to opportunity, I guess, is what I'll say. So I love that so much.

And that that is so cool because I think that's the other cool thing that happens when you let go. You really do open to all opportunity. And I think when you're just stuck doing that thing you've been doing for years, that has paid the bills, that was right for you all those years ago, that you're too scared to give up, you also kind of become closed for opportunity because you become so attached to that thing being the thing that you do. And I have felt that since I gave that up, yes, I'm going all in on the new thing.

And I am like, I feel like I've got eyes on the back of my head looking for scrappy opportunities. Because why not? I mean, really, why not? Especially, I feel like in this day and age, you kind of have to be open to anything that could possibly happen.

It's just supportive to our nervous system. And it's exciting. I like opportunities to do new things and try new things and meet new people and be in new spaces. And I think a big piece of it too, honestly, for me, was leaving social media.

Because when you live in that space and you're just constantly witnessing what could be true, but also most times it's not true, which is everybody's numbers and their successes and what their life looks like. And it's all dialed in and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's easy to think, oh, well, the only way I'll ever get to that, usually not true, usually unrealistic perfection, is if I just stay the path and just be so rigid and give it my all and work 75 hours a day. And trust me, I am a hustle girly through and through.

I love a good hustle. But removing myself from that really reminded me of like, my hustle does not start and end with my business. It's in all parts of my life. And I have so much to give the world.

I have so many cool skills and talents and abilities. And that's life, that's living. Being a what can today bring me? Yes.

Oh, I love that energy. And you're right. You open in you open Instagram, and it does feel like I just have to do the same thing forever. And until I'm number one in my industry, I haven't made it.

And that's bullshit. Yes, it's bullshit. We're just calling bullshit. I don't want to take too much more time because I could talk to you forever and ever and ever, which is why I have to literally fly thousands of miles to come be with you, because that's the only way I think I'll ever get even near a Phil.

Yes. But there is one topic I did want to spend a minute on, at least, and that is the topic of divorce. That is not something I can personally speak to. And it felt really important to have someone come on who could speak to it because I know there's a lot of people either on the brink of or right after, or even years after, that could really benefit from hearing a little bit of your story of leaving and letting go, kind of the same theme.

But tell us a little bit about your divorce. Yeah, so divorce is fascinating because everybody's story is so different. And I'm very aware that what I say might be different to someone else who's listening. I was the I was happy to get divorced.

I got to the point in my marriage where a divorce was really gonna be freedom for me. So in that sense, I didn't have the heartbreak grief that I had, which I know from when I broke up with a boyfriend of 10 years, where I never knew that heartbreak could be so physical. You know, I was absolutely devastated. I didn't have that this time.

So my grief was different because what I was grieving when I realized the divorce was happening as I was going through the divorce and after the divorce was actually grieving the life that I thought I would have. And that being the family life, it not even being the married life, but we had a daughter. And I grew up in a my parents are still together. And I grew up playing in the woods with both my parents around me, a very quintessential, lovely British childhood.

And I never for one minute minute imagined that I wouldn't have that experience as a mother, or that my child wouldn't have that experience. And actually, now I'm saying it out loud, I'm feeling like it's actually grieving it for her as well. Just grieving that loss of your parents being together and getting to have that life, which is the dream we're all promised. So that I would say was the hardest thing to work through.

And I also, for a long time, no, I'm gonna correct that, not a long time, but just a while in the process of getting divorced, felt like I'd failed. You know, I felt like I'd failed at the marriage. I felt that I'd not been able to make it work. And I think there's some, I don't know, maybe there's some grief attached to that when you feel you haven't done something well and therefore you've lost it.

Does that make sense? Well, especially if you, again, coming back to the idea of identifying as an ambitious woman, like so much of what drives us is success in things, monetary or you know, relational, whatever expectations we have of success. And traditionally, those of us in those positions also have incredibly high standards for ourselves. And so when those aren't met, there is a massive grief that's more around identity and uh and shame than anything else.

Yeah, shame. Definitely felt shame there. And the other grief piece, which was really large, was giving up half of my daughter's childhood. Yeah, makes feel emotional.

I've written a lot about it. There's a lot of journal entries, so I can say it now without crying, but it was really hard. You know, you see all these, again, another reason not to be on social media. You see all these reels on social media counting the amount of summers and hours you have with your children, and you have to make the most of it.

And, you know, I'd see something like that and know that my number was half. And that was really hard. Grieving that time with her, that was the most difficult, I think. And then sorry, come on.

That doesn't go away. No, that doesn't go away. That doesn't go away. You know, when I see her after we do a schedule where something Sometimes I haven't seen her for two days, sometimes I haven't seen her for five days, just depends on how the week feels.

And when I haven't seen her for five days and she's six, she is grown. Yes. She looks different. Yeah.

She has new words. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, where did you learn that from? And I just squeeze her so tight at pickup.

And you know, all the other mums and dads are just like, oh God, gotta go and get my kid at 4:30. And they're like skulking into the playground. And I'm like fast in line when I haven't seen her for five days. And I'm just swooping her up, and she's still too young to be embarrassed by that.

And just kissing her and like putting my head into her hair and desperately trying to make up for the time I'd not had with her. So that's a grief that doesn't go. It doesn't go. And you just have to have faith that you're giving her other opportunities and other, and I genuinely believe, a happier life.

And you know, that that helps. Yeah. And I think there's this beautiful fine line between being optimistic and seeing the benefit, you know, which we all know when it comes from somebody else can be frustrating if you're like, I'm in pain, and like, well, at least we don't want to hear that. And searching for that, but also giving yourself space of like this sucks.

Yeah. And the way that you said that last line, it made me tear up that idea of like desperately trying to make up for the time I've lost. Yeah. I felt that in my soul.

Yeah. It's true. And there's the moments as well when you you're running out of the sorry, you're getting ready in the morning, it's chaos, and there's breakfast all over the table, and spilt milk everywhere, and you rush off to school and you drop her off, and then you have the five days where you don't have her. And I'm not gonna lie, there's sometimes a moment of like, breathe, and I'm gonna sleep and I can do what I want.

And then you walk in the house, and there's all these little remnants and crumbs, and you're like, oh, baby girl. And it's hard. I will say, and I hope that people don't come at me for this, but I desperately love my husband. I can't imagine a life without him.

But I have of worse with a lot of women who are divorced, and sometimes I'm like, maybe I want a divorce. I don't know because it sounds so nice to have some minutes where I get to like literally you don't ever turn off being a mom, ever. But it is different. It's just different when they're and I'm not saying that I would prefer it or I'd want it, but there is a little of the daydream of like, oh, just I got a whole weekend to myself.

I'm I'm not gonna lie, it's pros and cons. I have always been a very independent person. And for a lot of my life, I didn't want to have children. So in fact, until I reach the age of 30, I didn't want to have children.

And I can't deny that having those weekends on my own and fully doing what I want to do and going on a journey of who am I today and what do I want to do? Because that's the alternative is sitting around and crying and waiting for your daughter to come home, right? I'm not doing that. You know, I'd rather use that time to rediscover who I am today.

And I'm doing improv classes, which is so much fun. And I'm like going off into Barcelona and I'm trying so many new things, and it also feels like a gift. So there is that. Not to encourage you to divorce your husband at all.

We're like mutually like, what if we tried divorce without divorcing? You know, he's on the same page as me. But I'd love that you speak to that. And I think that's a beautiful place to close on is this idea that there are gifts in grief, and we have to be willing to seek them and to be intentional with it.

Whether it's the gift of really appreciating something, it's the gift of, like I said, being intentional with how you spend your time, it's the gift of looking at parts of you that that have shifted, taking what feels good and leaving the rest behind and seeing what comes of it. I think there are gifts in grief. And obviously that can't apply fully to all forms of grief, but even in the conversation of like aging, there's so many gifts in who we've become and who we are now, and and being able to witness ourselves change while also grieve.

Man, I used to work out every day and I looked so good. And now I work out every day so that I can be mid. Right. I told him, he's like, man, I'm so I'm so impressed by your commitment.

I'm like, yeah, I'm so impressed that I I spend an hour every day working on my body and I'm just so mid. So funny you say that because I had a friend here this weekend, but she was like, it is so hard to be average these days. It is well, the galley had on where we talked about aging. We started this conversation because we were at coffee and we both admitted like once upon a time I turned so many heads.

Call it whatever you want to call it, but I used to women, men, everybody would kind of second glance at me, and now I'm like, hello. I'm still here. And it's an interesting, it's a it's a great and it's a gift. And and I also am sometimes like so grateful that nobody's looking, and I just wear whatever I want, be whoever I want, have a million kids hanging on me because there ain't nobody worried about what I'm doing.

The gifts and the well, my friend, forever grateful for you. Please let everybody know how can they find you? How can they binge you and love you the way that I love you? Oh, so I am on Instagram and I am at delia.

monk on Instagram. And I do have a website that's still up and running. So if you just want to go and have a look at my really pretty website to make me feel like it was worth spending 12 grand on it, then please do. And I'm at delia monk.

com. Please go give that $12,000 rebrand book. A few clicks would be great. I love it.

There's nothing more real about that at all. I love it. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your vulnerability and your energy. And I can't wait to see you in Spain. Thanks, Ash. Thanks for having me.