Leading in the Impact Space with Jessica McClain

Speaker A: Financial leadership is changing. CFOs no longer record history, they make history. This podcast will help you become a better leader, strategic thinker and digital visionary. Welcome to Secrets of Rockstar CFOs, the ultimate podcast for chief financial officers. Follow along as Jack McCullough engages in exciting chats with accomplished CFOs, learning how they overcame obstacles and position their companies for the future. Here's your host, Jack McCullough.

Speaker B: Hello, rockstars, and welcome to another episode of the Secrets of Rockstar CFOs. I'm your host, Jack McCullough. Before we start, a big shout out to our, uh, sponsors, Intuit and Planful. Welcome back to another episode of the secrets of rockstar CFOs. And I'm really excited by today's guest because she's someone I've known for a while and I know she's a rockstar CFO. I'm happy to welcome Jessica McLean, who's the CFO of the American Staffing Association. The American Staff association is the voice of US staffing, recruiting and the workforce solutions industry. Jessica, welcome to the secrets of rockstar CFOs.

Speaker C: Thank you, Jack. I'm excited to be here and pumped about today's episode.

Speaker B: Yeah, it should be a great one. And you know, I am Mr. Oversimplification and my description of your organization, probably a little short, but maybe you could round things out a little bit for our listeners.

Speaker C: Sure, absolutely. It's a great question. I like to say that our mission is to empower and to advocate for the staffing industry. It's our why? Why do we do it? We want to fuel the growth of our members. We want to help them thrive. And we're doing that through advocacy, we're doing that through research, we're doing that through education. But, um, I would say above all in an ethical and professional manner. In doing that, our job is to support the industry when our members to grow. We want our members to succeed.

Speaker B: No. Well, that's fantastic. And we'll get into your career in a moment. But you've always worked for mission focused organizations and so it's great that you found another one that you can bring that same passion and energy to. Uh, and we'll return to that. But you know, before we get into it, I'd love to get about a little bit about your background. Can you share where you grew up?

Speaker C: Sure, absolutely. So I was born and raised in the Washington D.C. area, but I love to take a step back when people sometimes ask me about this and where I grew up. And I share this part because it plays a role in who I am today. I love to say and share that I am two generations removed from women that pick cotton as children. So my family's from the Deep south. And I share that story because my grandmothers, they didn't have the opportunity to finish school, go to college. A lot of those opportunities were, they were denied that. And it drives me to succeed and take on every opportunity that I can because of the opportunities that they weren't given. Um, my family has roots from the south, but I grew up in the Washington D.C. area and I grew up in a military household. I'm an Air Force brat. And I say I grew up in a household full of discipline, my goodness, but also love. My parents, they pushed me, they supported me, and I'm forever grateful for the childhood that I have. But I've been in the metro D.C. area for most of my life and it's where my husband and I are raising our kids.

Speaker B: Well, that's an amazing story. And you know, probably your family two generations back, it probably wouldn't have even been imaginable to them that, you know, your. Their granddaughter would be CFO of a, uh, well respected nonprofit organization in the D.C. area. So that's. You are a great, great American story.

Speaker C: So thank you.

Speaker B: So anyway, did you grow up, did you have, uh, many brothers and sisters growing up?

Speaker C: So I have one younger sister, uh, a few years apart. And I'd love to share that now. It's interesting, you know, we grew up in it, grow up as sisters and you know, we each have our own children. So she has a son and a daughter and so do I. And it's interesting to see how we've grown, especially now that we become mothers and seeing siblings kind of, you know, go back and forth or argue with each other or play with each other or not share and say, wow, that used to be us many moons ago. Um, but proud of where we both have come, honestly, so.

Speaker B: Well, that's great. Well, I know you went to undergrad, you studied business, and you got a master's degree. So what about the seven? What about that field was attractive to the 17 year old, Jessica?

Speaker C: Sure. So I initially thought I was going to be an accountant as a kid and people said, how did you know that? And I always love to share this story. I was somewhere elementary school age and I had a substitute teacher and she had a wad of money in her pocket one day and I said, oh my gosh, what do you do to have so much money and she said she was a tax accountant. So I knew from there that's where I needed to be because that's where the money was. But actually, when I got to undergrad at Taos University, I actually changed my major from accounting to business. And I did that at the time because I took, you know, a few accounting courses and said, oh, my gosh, this is boring. I don't like this. This is not it. And ended up getting my bachelor's degree in business. But as you can see, I, uh, tell the story later how I came full circle and still became an accountant and a CPA specifically, but started down that path and thought, I'm not sure about that. I wanted something that seemed more exciting but still made my way back and still in the profession to this day.

Speaker B: No, that makes sense. And you, you mentioned being the cpa, but you're actually one of the more, well, credentialed guests that I've had. And perhaps the. I was looking at your LinkedIn profile. You list, uh, several things after the last name. And I guess I was lazy because I stopped at cpa. But you're a, uh, citp, cisa, pmp, and cgfm, so clearly you've got a very high level of professional intellectual curiosity.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I have a love of learning. I tell people I'm a nerd at heart, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Um, and so that fuels. I think that's helped me throughout my career. Having that curiosity and wanting to learn and seeing things differently, I think has been. It's been an eye opener for me as well. So I always say I'm done with my certifications, but I don't know, Jack. I may have another few letters after my name in a year or two. Who knows?

Speaker B: There you go. So exciting. So. So I'm curious, when you were in, perhaps in high school, what was the first ever job that you had besides, like, babysitting or a paper routine?

Speaker C: Sure, absolutely. So I grew up in a military base, uh, for a part of my life, and I had my first summer job probably in college. I worked in a communications office on the base doing administrative work at the time. And one of the things I learned was the type of boss not to be just in how to speak to people, um, how to communicate with people. So I enjoyed meeting the colleagues, but the supervisor wasn't the nicest person. And that was my first experience and understanding. Wow. That's how not to be, uh, when I become a boss one day.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny how sometimes you learn alert more from jerks than you do from nice people. The, uh, negative lesson that they don't know that they're teaching you. So that's great. So you started a career, you came out of college and did you start with kpmg?

Speaker C: Yes, I started with kpmg, but actually when I left undergrad I went to work for the federal government and I only did it for about six months and it just wasn't fast paced enough for me. I just didn't want the day to day to be the same. And there was a colleague there at the time that I worked with and she was CPA herself and she said, hmm, hm, you have a curious mindset. And how do you look at things? Have you thought about being a cpa, but specifically auditing? And I had not thought of that. I didn't really know that auditing was part of the accounting profession. And so I actually went back to go back to school. So during the few months I was with the federal government, I took the time to study for the gmat, got accepted into George Washington University's accounting program, um, and then got my master's degree and went on to KPMG full time and started my career in public accounting.

Speaker B: So, yeah, interesting. We were very briefly coworkers. I was at KPMG in Boston though, from 2010 to 2015.

Speaker C: Awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, quite unlikely we would have ever, uh, gone to the same circles, although we did go to that office twice. So it's certainly possible we passed each other in the hallway back in 2011.

Speaker C: So small world, you never know.

Speaker B: Absolutely. But so you know, kpmg, wonderful experience and you know, prepares you to do a lot of different things. And you came out of KPMG and I believe you've always worked for nonprofit or mission focused companies since leaving public accounting. Is that a fair characterization?

Speaker C: No, it actually is. You're right. I spent time in public accounting. Uh, that was about the first 11 years of my career. Um, worked at Big Four. I worked at a small niche firm in the Washington D.C. area and about six years ago is when I transitioned to what I would call the impact space. Some people say nonprofit, but I think the work we do, work we do is impact, focus and mission driven.

Speaker B: Okay, that's a, uh, much. I'm going to try to use your nomenclature going forward on that stuff. Yeah. When you and I met you at the uh, Girl Scouts nation's capital, you know, that's about as mission driven as any. And I know from our conversations at the time, you know, how much you loved that organization. And you know, how you were able to really put your heart and soul into it. But was that something intentional? When you left public accounting, you said you wanted to work for these impact companies, or it was just the first one, kind of an interesting place to work and you decided to stick with it.

Speaker C: So when I left public accounting, I knew I wanted to do work that was more than just worried about the bottom line. Again, I'm all about business, I'm all about making a profit and understand that's important, but wanted to have another piece of that and having some purpose in the work that I was doing. So I actually worked at a different trade association, um, as a controller before making the move to be the CFO for Girl Scouts. Um, and so I've bounced around between your 501C6 um, World and the C3 World, but have stayed again in that purpose driven work. Great.

Speaker B: So when you look back, including maybe your time in public accounting, but very few people get to the level that you've achieved, Jessica, without critical mentors along the way. When you look back, are there any that, like, wow, I learned a lot from them. And you know, as odd as it sounds, that fellow that I think you thought it was a guy, uh, in your first job, um, he was a little bit of a mentor in spite of himself. Right. But, you know, are there any that were like, proactive mentors that meant to be and you just learned so much from them?

Speaker C: The one person that I have been fortunate to have known and still know and stands out for me is Kimberly Ellison Taylor. She was the first person of color to chair the aicpa. And Jack, when I say she has been a cheerleader, a supporter, I mean, absolutely, a trailblazer. I mean, my goodness, I mean, this woman has made history. One of the things I truly admire about her is how she just leads with excellence and generosity. I mean, she has shown me what is possible in this profession. She has shown me what it means to pay it forward and support others. And that I've learned over time that you're not successful on your own. You have to have mentors, you gotta have coaches, you need your sponsors and supporters. And yes, hard work could get you there. But you really don't move the needle unless you have people who are advocating for you and showing you what's possible. And that has been her. And it's actually shaped who I am and how I make sure I make time to, to give back, um, and support the next generation where I can.

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Speaker C: I would think she is, absolutely is, Jack.

Speaker B: So, yeah. And you know, when I think back and you know this is, um, very highly visible CFO role and you know, great leadership position. But when you look back upon your career, what are some of the lessons that you've learned? Not so much that they make you better at the technical aspect of your job, but that make you a better leader and maybe even a role model to younger professionals.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I tell people, public accounting, if you're going into the accounting profession, public accounting is a great place. I mean, yes, to start and you can even stay there and end your career there. But it really built the technical foundation, the discipline, the curiosity, the attention to detail. Um, it's helped me learn how to ask the right questions, how to manage risk in doing that and upholding integrity. Um, and it's a high level standard of ethics with doing that. I say, I can say when I move to the mission driven space. The leadership strength is what is really helped me in this seat. It's not about just the numbers. I've had to learn how to influence and build trust with various types of stakeholders. Your staff, your board, leadership, donors, members, volunteers, I mean, you name it, you had to work with them. Another thing that's helped shape me is, and this is a big piece of part, being part of a CEO is translating that financial information to make it clear, to make it understandable, to make it digestible for those that don't have that financial background. Because sometimes it sounds easy to us, to us, um, but to others it's like, what in the world did she just say? Um, and being, it's taking practice, it's taken intention, um, to be able to do that. And so it's those experience, um, between public accounting and the work that I do now has made me both strong from a financial steward standpoint, but also what I would say is, um, a strong Partner. Someone that is focused on people and focused on long term impact as well.

Speaker B: Okay, now that's fantastic. You know, it's interesting because, you know, for us, I'm a CPA as well. I don't have all of your credentials, but, you know, the things that you're talking about were more. They're what some people call the soft skills.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And, you know, I suspect for you only because it was the case for me, that they were actually the hard ones. Right. I was pretty good with numbers at a relatively young age. And you were inspired by a tax accountant when you were a little girl. So you were probably pretty good at it too, because you made yourself so pretty. But it's really the soft skills that are difficult for finance and accounting people, but so critical.

Speaker C: No, absolutely it is. And it's taken time to do that. And I like to tell people that, you know, when I present and they say, wow, like, you just come off with a level of confidence and clarity. And I said it's taking a lot of practice in doing that. But I want to be a CPA that has personality. So I want to be credible, but also relatable in humans. And so what I've done intentionally is taking on speaking opportunities, being on podcasts such as this. I mean, this has really helped me and become a differentiator for me as well. And so that allows me to, again, help translate the complex financial, um, topics or areas of consideration and to make it clear, to make it understandable, but also engaging. Because sometimes people look at what we do and it's kind of easy to fall asleep sometimes. I mean, we love it. We could talk about it all day, but making it engaging as well. And so that way you're able to have the influence in decisions and not just be the person that reports and shows numbers.

Speaker B: Right. You know, I'm pretty sure I heard you wrong, but I thought I heard the word CPA with personality.

Speaker C: Yes, that's me.

Speaker B: No, you certainly do have one. So. And, uh, yeah, there are contexts. I mean, you know me a little bit. I kind of have that clownish quality. But there were people, you know, who just simply didn't believe. I'm a cpa

Speaker C: and I love it, Jack.

Speaker B: We come in all, uh, types of personalities, so. But I want to talk about American staffing a little bit. And first of all, you know, you were as passionate as anyone I know about the Girl Scouts job. And, uh, so this might have been a really intriguing opportunity. And just curious, you know, what was it about the role that said this is a great career move for me.

Speaker C: You're right. I love Girl Scouts. Um, I'm still connected. My daughter is in Girl Scouts, and so that connection will always be there. Once a Girl Scout, always a Girl Scout, that doesn't change. You're absolutely right, Jack. I am mission driven, impact driven, but also very business minded. And I think this role now really brings that together. It really does. Because I feel like the work that we're doing at the association, it supports an industry that's having a real positive economic impact. And being in this seat, I can convert mission and strategy, along with the financial piece of IT to help to have sustainable results. And so that's what drew me to. To the opportunity.

Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And you've been in the role six months, eight months, something like that?

Speaker C: Yeah, about six months. So a little longer some days, but it's been about six months.

Speaker B: So I know, um, you know, probably longer term plans, you have some ideas with some digital transformation, but what is your IT environment currently like? And if I understand correctly, you're about to become much more involved in that in the near term.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. So, I mean, with any organization, right, we're always working to do what's best as far as not the latest and greatest, but what makes us efficient, what makes us effective, ensuring that we have the strong controls in place and always moving forward. And so, right, it is going to be shifting under me, which isn't unusual now, as CFOs, I think we take on a lot more than we have in the past, but it's going to give me a bigger view of what's going on within the organization. Yes, from an it, but also a data standpoint. So I'm excited to see where that goes, um, and how much more I get to learn about the organization and what it means to support our members.

Speaker B: And you know, Jessica, I'm actually required as a podcast host to ask this question, but I'd like to chat a little about, you know, what is the organization's AI strategy? I understand it hasn't been fully fleshed out, but I'd love to, you know, sort of see what the roadmap might be like.

Speaker C: No, absolutely. So I will start by saying that we're of the early stages in what we're doing, but we definitely have a directive from our CEO in that we should be using it. He's not afraid of it. It's one of those. We can use it as a competitive advant, manage and helping in the decision making that we're doing. And the support that we're doing as well. And so we're definitely looking at foundational training for everyone. Putting together an AI policy that's about done, uh, to make sure we have those guardrails in place. Uh, because I always like to say we want to use it ethically and responsibly. I mean, that is a top priority of our CEO. And when we use it, that we're using it in that manner and so early stages. But I'm excited that we have a CEO that embraces it and wants us to use it. And it's going to make the investment in our team members to make sure we're on the same page moving forward within the organization.

Speaker B: No, that's a great philosophy. I've noticed CFOs are a little bit lagging in embracing AI. Uh, but there's actually a good reason for that. It's the highly confidential nature of the data you're holding. Right. I mean, if a marketing person gets hacked, I mean, there are companies that actually fake it, you know, that they want to get news out early and uh, you know, they'll actually let someone steal it so that it gets out earlier than they want. So, yeah, yeah, there are some companies that have done that. Kind of an interesting thing. But you know, you, um, that the whole data privacy and security thing, that's job one when it comes to technology for you, I would imagine.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh. I approach AI and I use it and I am scratching the surface, but I use it with discretion. That's a big piece of it. I start with again, the ethically and responsible use, you know, so that means I'm very thoughtful in what I put in. I want to protect sensitive and confident information. I mean, that is a priority. And I'm very clear on the other aspect of it that I can maybe help with drafting and can help with summarizing. But the human judgment that's involved not just taking something and running with it, but making sure again, I'm looking at it, putting the eyes on it. So again, being very mindful of what I put in, but being even more mindful of what I'm looking at when it comes out.

Speaker B: Okay, that's the great approach and that's what people expect out of you as a CFO. CFOs who are cowboys generally don't succeed, uh, all that well.

Speaker C: We don't have that trust when we do that, and that's important in what we do. So.

Speaker B: Indeed. Uh, but I want to chat the organization generally. And again, you're new Here. So you must have seen some wonderful opportunities you want to get involved in. Also some challenges. So I'm wondering, what are some of the big things on the horizon for asa?

Speaker C: Sure, absolutely. When I think about what's ahead in working, being at an association, it's very interesting how we have to work with our members and understand what's important to them, what it is that they want to see, what it is that keeps them engaged, keeps them coming back, is vital in what we do. I, uh, will say when we think about the horizon is how do we continue to effectively not just recruit and retain the members we want to keep them engaged. We want them talking about what ASA does, whether it's the research we're providing, whether it's the education opportunities we're, uh, providing as well. Because, let's face it, member expectations are changing. They are when it comes to working in the association space. So you have to continuously prove your value. You have to communicate that value to make sure it is clear what your members are getting. And I also think what's important is the relevance, which is actually interesting because some people may say, I can get some of this asking ChatGPT. And so we're working to show the relevance that we have it as an association that you can look at to us as being a, uh, trusted connector, providing that community, providing be a source of insight for our industry. So we have to stay close to our members and understanding what they want, and then adapt where we need to do that. So we're providing real value to them. And that strengthens, of course, our impact and financial stability as well.

Speaker B: That's great. One thing I like, um, the fact that you're a CPA and yet you've done a lot more outside of that. I'm always curious about what organizations KPIs are or the way they measure success. And given that you're in a nonprofit space, you probably measured a little bit differently than companies that I've worked in the past. But what are some of the most meaningful KPIs in your world?

Speaker C: So I look at it in two parts when I think about KPIs and measuring success. So, of course we have to look at the financial metrics, but beyond that, and this is some of the data that I look into with our Chief Membership Officer, is member value signals. And I kind of just talked about that, how it's changing, how it's shifting. So we're looking at member engagement, and there's numbers behind that. Participation in programs, the events that we have, the conferences that we have various touch points because engagement is a leading indicator, I would put it that way. With retention and long term stability. We look at net promoter scores overall with our members, whether it's specifically at conferences, because we know that's where the real value is. We want people to talk about what the association has done for them and their firm. And that's how that word of mouth is so important. But another thing I think we look at as well, outside of traditional KPIs or some other numbers is actually what's happening outside of the walls of our organization. You know, we're looking at the growth, we're looking at the health, we're looking at the stability of our member firms and the industry overall. So if our members are growing, if they're placing people in jobs, they're expanding their impact, that is a very strong signal of the value that they're delivering. And again, it gets back to our why of uh, our purpose is to fuel the growth of our members and their firms.

Speaker B: Okay, that's uh, fantastic. And it's an interesting thing because like in a, in a for profit space, it's not all about the bottom line, but you know, it's largely about the bottom line. But here it's really, you know, everything you described is really just about the impact that you can make.

Speaker C: Absolutely. We got to have that bottom line too. Again, I always tell people that the numbers are important and we have to make money and then have profit, but this is a big. Another piece of it as well.

Speaker B: That's great. And one thing I like to explore because it's actually the most common question that I get asked by members other than about generative AI, which I'm not really qualified to answer some of those questions. But it's about the relationship with the CEO and the CFO. And uh, one observation I've made is CFOs have said for a long time it's my most important professional relationship. And undoubtedly it has been, uh, CEOs haven't necessarily reciprocated until recently. I think Covid might have been a tipping point when, you know, CFOs were, you know, kind of putting the large portions of the company on their back to survive. It's like, hey, this isn't just a numbers geek type of thing, but you're in your first year and you know, you have, uh, your CEO is a very well respected person within the industry and I'd like to know, you know, what it is that you do to sort of cement that strategic partnership with him.

Speaker C: Absolutely. The biggest piece, I would say, with the CEO, uh, and CFO relationship, yes, is trust. But a part of that is making sure that we're in sync, that alignment is so important, that we are in sync, that we have one story so that there's alignment in our narrative with our staff, with our board, our members and various stakeholders. That part is so important. And so we all know that the CFO role, it's evolved. And we're not just reporting numbers, we are business partners. So we are expected to connect the dots. Whether it's across finance, operations, risk, the people. We're putting all of that together because we have to understand the business in and out. It's not just the silo here, finance, it's understanding what's happening over here with membership, what's happening with learning and development, what's happening with research. I mean, I have to understand how all of that works because all of it has in some way a financial impact. And so by doing that, that breadth of knowledge is what I can use to help support the CEO and the decisions that he's making.

Speaker B: So it's, um, such a critical thing. And you know, this is interesting because, like, he hired you and you know, uh, there's a lot of research that shows you're better off that way because you were sort of his decision, he's invested in your success. Where it gets tricky is when the CFO precedes the CEO because all of a sudden you're being evaluated. It's like you might have been doing the job really well for five years, but that means nothing to the incoming person. But, you know, he's made the investment in you and you're going to find a way to make it work, both of you.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And our current CEO, you know, just took the round, took the head beginning of January. Um, our other CEO had retired and had served the industry and the association in high regard. Um, and so, you know, the new CEO and fairly new cfo, you know, we're working to build that relationship together and it's off to a very positive start. I appreciate his open mindedness. He wants to hear people's perspectives. He doesn't come in saying, I have all the answers and I know everything I want to hear from all of you and that's from myself down to our staff. And I think that open mindedness, wanting to hear those perspectives and hear those viewpoints, to understand the blind spots that may be out there, I think is critically important. And so he's laid that as a foundation early on, um, as the New CEO. And I think that's going to be to the help of our success.

Speaker B: That's great. So one thing I want to chat with you about, sort of your life outside of being a cfo. And one thing that caught my attention is that you're a limited partner in an organization called How Women Invest. And you know, I guess the name probably gives a decent description of what the organization's vision might be, but maybe you can share a little about that and you know, uh, how you got involved with them.

Speaker C: Sure. So I wanted to kind of get into the venture capital world um, and take my dollars and again my personal dollars and have an impact and that's what How Women Invest does. We're investing uh, in early stages of women owned companies every other from tech to health care to sports. And so I just got started a few months ago and start still learning the ropes of uh, dealing with pitches and the due diligence that goes behind funding these companies. But I really love the mission and what they're doing because so few dollars VC dollars go to women owned companies very little. And part of this group and part of this organization is passionate men and women who are investing their money wanting to see women owned companies grow. So I'm excited to see where many of these companies land and what they do in the next five to ten years. Um, so just starting that journey but

Speaker B: excited that's still true that majority of money is still going to men.

Speaker C: Yes. Single digit numbers still go to women and women owned companies.

Speaker B: I mean that, it kind of made sense early in my career. But you know, that was the 1980s. Just a lot of them were started by engineers and there were just a lot more male engineers than female engineers. So. But 40 years later that's still the case. Huh huh.

Speaker C: Still got work to do. Still got work to do.

Speaker B: You know, as an unapologetic feminist, I'm counting on you to make the impact that I know, I know you will make. So but getting back to outside of work, uh, you know, do you have any hobbies or you know, passions that you pursue?

Speaker C: So my hobbies are my kids hobbies. Right now, you know, I'm at the stage where you pick them up and drop them off here and you pick them up and drop them off there and they got this practice and that practice. But with that I, I try my best to take care of myself and finding time to go to the nail salon or go have dinner with friends, um, I try my best to do that but it's hard at this stage and I know many parents can relate when you have. I have two kids that have different activities and the shuffling and, uh, chauffeuring that has to go on week to week. It takes its toll. And that's fine. It's something I signed up for and enjoy. And I get joy in seeing my kids grow and what they do.

Speaker B: No, that's great. Um, how old are your kids?

Speaker C: I have a daughter that just turned seven and a son that will be five in May.

Speaker B: Okay. Well, as I mentioned before we jumped on the air, I saw a video that you had made, uh, with your husband, and then you walking down apparently your driveway holding hands with your children and you know, such a guy thing. Right. I saw your husband is a very large man. Um, and I immediately thought I would not want to be the fellow dating your daughter in a few years. When that comes, it's like he's, he's going to scare the heck out of everybody.

Speaker C: So that's his job. But don't know. They should be afraid of me too. Jack. Now don't get it wrong. Now those are my babies. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. The mama grizzly in all moms, right? So you're nice in our world, but then you could adopt a different world. Well, I always joke because I have sons, so that's not a worry of mine, but I have several nieces and you know, my brothers in law, they're too nice. It's like, come on, someone's got to scare these young men. So that falls to me. I can be a little scary on the occasion.

Speaker C: There you go.

Speaker B: And I say that without apology and take great pride in it as that effect. So. But anyway, I always like to conclude, and you know, especially in this case since you have chosen the nonprofit or the impact career. But you know, what's some advice that you can give to the next generation of CFOs and what are the things that they can expect if they do follow in your footsteps and go for the impact of that?

Speaker C: Absolutely. One of the biggest pieces of advice I give is to invest in networking. And I know some people don't like the word networking. It makes some people cringe. So they may say maybe you're gonna make connections and build relationships. That's another way to put it. And it's not just about meeting people. That's really not what it is. I cannot tell you that if you don't have people that are speaking up for you in a room when you're not there, you will not know the opportunities that exist. And so it's important that you take that time to build those relationships with people, showing up for them, adding value, staying connected. I have, uh, glad I've done that over the years because it has definitely opened doors for me that on my own I wouldn't have thought of and that I've done a good job when people say, oh, yeah, so and so brought you up in that discussion, that you'd be a great, it'd be a great opportunity for you and that people are willing to do that because again, of the work that I've done and the impact that I've made. So invest in that network.

Speaker B: That's fantastic. And my colleague, Kristen Todd, whom you may know, uh, she always says your network is your net worth.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Ching ching. I will say that I suspect she

Speaker B: didn't invent the phrase, but it's a good one. But anyway, uh, I want to just take a moment. Um, Jessica, thank you for your time. I know you've got a lot going on, uh, with family and a high impact job and all of those things. And I'd just like to conclude by giving you the final word today.

Speaker C: Absolutely. One of the mantras that I have to leave the audience with and I live by and continue to live by is great things don't come from comfort zones. Get out there, stretch yourself. You're stronger than you may think.

Speaker B: That wraps up this episode of the secrets of Rockstar. CFOs. A huge thank you to our sponsors, Intuit and Plantful. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review@rockstarcfos.com until next time. Rock on.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to this episode. To continue your exploration of this role that focuses on strategy, leadership, finance and technology. Listen to more episodes of the show@rockstarcfos.com Join this Revolution Episode by episode. Push yourself to achieve great things and unlock the best opportunities available to you. CFOs are creating a legacy and it's time for you to leave your own unique imprint on the world today. That's all for now. See you on the next one.