Inside Workday’s CFO Strategy: AI, Leadership & the Future of Finance with Zane Rowe

Speaker A: Financial leadership is changing. CFOs no longer record history, they make history. This podcast will help you become a better leader, strategic thinker and digital visionary. Welcome to Secrets of Rockstar CFOs, the ultimate podcast for chief financial officers. Follow along as Jack McCullough engages in exciting chats with accomplished CFOs, learning how they overcame obstacles and position their companies for the future. Here's your host, Jack McCullough.

Speaker B: Hello, rockstars, and welcome to another episode of the Secrets of Rockstar CFOs. I'm your host, Jack McCullough. Before we start, a big shout out to our sponsors, Intuit and Planful. Welcome back everyone. And on the subject of rockstar CFOs, we absolutely have one today. I'm happy to welcome Zane Rowe, the CFO of Workday, to our podcast, a little about Workday. For the five or six of you who may not be familiar with the company, it's a cloud based enterprise platform that helps organizations manage their people, finances and planning in one integrated system. Zane, welcome to the secrets of rockstar CFOs.

Speaker C: Thank you, Jack. I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for the time.

Speaker B: Great to have you. I'm an overly simple guy and you want to fill in the blanks a little bit. Workday for, as I mentioned, I think probably just about everybody listening is familiar with you.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think we're fairly well known, you know, as you know, we're a unified platform for finance, for HR and planning. We help companies manage their people, their money, and of course, their agents. So we feel like we have a great position. We've got over 11,000 customers. We're in 65% of the Fortune 500. Just over 20,000 workmates that I have the pleasure of working alongside. So we're excited about the future. A lot going on in SaaS and in AI, as you well know. So thrilled to be here and to tell the story.

Speaker B: Well, great. And we're happy to hear from you. I want to get into all of that. I always like to explore the background a little bit. And Zane, where did you grow up?

Speaker C: Oh, I grew up in Cape Town, South Africa. So I spent the first 16 years of my life in Cape Town and then I moved to Seattle, Washington and then since then I've lived in many areas around the US I've actually covered pretty much all four corners and a big part of the center part of the country.

Speaker B: Oh, okay. Wow, that's fantastic. And if I can ask, you've lived outside the US and does that impact how you approach your job as cfo. I mean, workday is pretty global company.

Speaker C: It does, Jack. I spent a big chunk of my life in the airline industry and growing up in South Africa. First, it's an incredible country. For those listeners who haven't been. It really is a land of contrast. And I felt like, even at, uh, a young age, had so many learnings. And one thing you learn is that you're quite far from a lot of other places around the globe. So to your point, I've always thought of myself as having at least an international view of things and a global view of the world. And that's been what attracted me initially to airlines and then, since then to technology. Because I think about the changes, both physical and sort of the idea with airlines actually physically having people get closer to each other and. And then through technology. The fact that, you know, just around the globe there's so many opportunities with technology to democratize technology and to really help society with technology. And I always felt like my years in South Africa helped me, you know, create that mindset that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker B: You mentioned working with airlines, and one thing that I noticed about your background, which almost certainly a first for my guests, but you studied, uh, aviation, business administration in undergraduate.

Speaker C: I did. I was fascinated with the complexity of airlines and the space. And it was just a great opportunity to learn more about business, but then to apply it to something that I was passionate about at a very young age, I actually practiced. I don't have my pilot's license, but I spent a fair amount of time in aircraft with friends and started to learn to fly at a fairly young age. So I've always had this appreciation for flight and for connectivity and what all that brought. And along with that, I wanted to be around aviation and airlines. And just having that mindset was crucial to me at that point in my life. So it was a great opportunity to learn more about business and then apply it to aviation and other areas of business.

Speaker B: That's great. Yes, it's fascinating. And, you know, it's. When I was a cfo. Ah. And we're going back a little bit. It was like 98% of the CFOs studied accounting in undergrad, or at least it felt that way. But the beauty of modern CFOs is, you know, there's just a lot of paths to get there. It's really about what you learn and what you can bring to the role.

Speaker C: No, I think that's exactly right. And as you point out, the way people approach the idea of Being a good cfo, and I'm sure we'll get into sort of the values that that brings and what being a good CFO looks like. There's so many different paths to it, and the CFO of the future will change even from the CFO today. So I think it's such an exciting field. I mean, we're obviously trying to create value in many different ways and partner with so many stakeholders, and that's what's so attractive to me, being in the role.

Speaker B: Oh, okay, great. So I'm looking at your career, and you've just worked at some, um, iconic companies in your career. You've worked at VMware, EMC, you've worked for, you know, two of the biggest airlines in the world, and even this, uh, fruit company, Apple. Uh, I'm sorry, I saw that from Forrest Gump. He thought he was investing in a fruit company, and it was Apple Computer, but. And you were actually in sales at Apple Computer, though, right?

Speaker C: I was, yeah. Many people, when I moved from aviation, as you point out, I was, at the time, CFO at United, and I had this opportunity to work for Tim at Apple in the sales capacity, and a lot of people thought I was crazy, quite frankly. And I think it sort of goes back to getting outside your comfort zone, taking opportunities. And then for me, being so fortunate to, uh, work for so many incredible people and represent so many incredible companies, it's really just been a great career. And I'd say these are companies that we know, and they're large, but, I mean, there's so many people out there with smaller enterprise and smaller companies that do the same thing. I mean, what they stand for, their value set is just remarkable. And I just think for all of us in business, it's such a privilege to support the underlying business. It's just a great opportunity for everybody.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's fantastic. There's some diverse companies and experiences along the way. And I'm wondering, when you look back, like, what are some of the lessons you've learned, leadership and otherwise, that prepared you for one of the most exciting CFO roles in the country? I have to think.

Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think I was fortunate early, early on in my career to be surrounded by a. An industry that was very challenged. I joined Continental when it was, like, the worst, essentially the worst of the 10 airlines that we tracked. And Gordon Bethune put out a book, worst to First. So I was just really fortunate to be surrounded by people that ultimately became terrific mentors for me, and the understanding of hard work and being Thorough and yet being motivating. And in an airline environment, you have a broad group of stakeholders, you know, between sort of your customers all the way through to government agencies. And you're so susceptible to everything that goes on around the globe. It was just a great training ground and learning ground for me and to be surrounded by talented individuals that showed me what good looked like as far as management skills and how you can apply yourself in so many different areas. To your point, I've had the good fortune of being able to be in so many different roles leading up to the CFO role, and I think that's really given me a broader view of what I think success should look like in this role and in this capacity, dealing with lots of contingencies and lots of issues, but also driving change and driving good outcomes for the business.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it makes sense. By the way, I love the fact that you referred to Tim Cook as Tim. So he's like such an icon that when you refer to him on a first name basis, people know, you know, it's like Elon or someone like that.

Speaker C: I said he's terrific. But yeah, there are only so many people in the world I guess you could use on a first name basis, but he would be one of them for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, everybody immediately knew whom you're referring to, so. But cool. So you had like a great experience and, you know, I'm allowed one or two dumb questions during the course of the podcast and I'm about to ask you one of them. But, you know, what led you to the role at Workday? What attracted you to it, and why did you make the leap?

Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think ultimately it's around people, product and purpose and Workday being in the valley. It's called a small valley, and it actually, it really is. I knew a fair amount about the company. We were Workday customers. And I recognize that the values that Workday had for its customers, and first and foremost, it was what the company represented. I loved the opportunity to be more global. I loved the purpose of the company and the people I met from the company. But most importantly for me, at the point in time when I was thinking about my next chapter, we had just gone through the acquisition of VMware by Broadcom. And I always think about sort of life being around people and that you can depend on. And he is of a short list that if I was just had the privilege to work alongside him doing whatever, I would really consider it and take it very seriously. And that's what I did. And it's Been an incredible journey. We've got a great team here to be part of where we're going and to be part of software in a time of AI and, you know, be amongst so many smart people here at workday and in driving change. And then it comes back to purpose. Because what I believe we can do, as I mentioned, for both for people, for your finances and for AI, I think it's just so exciting. I'm thrilled to have the privilege of working alongside some terrific people and to be growing this business. So it's just an exciting time. And that's how I got here. That's how I took the opportunity.

Speaker B: Right. And you and worked together. It was at VMware where you worked together.

Speaker C: That's right. We had a short time that we overlapped at VMware. And then when I was at EMC, EMC had a big stake in VMware. So I would spend a lot of time at VMware and got to know him very well over those years as well, which is now, gosh, is dating us. It was a long, long time ago.

Speaker B: When were you at emc? Because they were headquartered, you know, they started in Hoppington, Massachusetts, not far from where I grew up. Did you live in Massachusetts?

Speaker C: So I lived on the West Coast. I worked for Joe Tucci, just another incredible leader. And it was. I always get my years, so I'll have to fact check this, but I believe it was between 2014 and 2016 when I was with EMC, and then I moved over to VMware as part of the Dell Technologies transaction, obviously, then, uh, at that time, having the opportunity to work more closely with Michael. So it was, uh, around that time, I still lived on the west coast, and Joe convinced me that everything was moving west at that time. So I said, well, that's fine, I'll just commute. And for a couple of years, I had an apartment in Boston. And you're right, the EMC was in Hopkinton, Massachusetts. So I spent a fair amount of time there with another terrific team doing some very exciting things. And the area of data and technology.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm such a, you know, iconic local company. In fact, my first CFO job was I was working for the Egan family.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, of course.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, that's great.

Speaker B: Yeah, they started their own venture capital fund, Eagan.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And they were the first people to take a chance on me, uh, as a CFO when I was like 32 or 33.

Speaker C: Oh, that's terrific. Yeah, that was a great family. And of course, a big part of emc. And yeah, just very fond memories of that whole time period as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know the, the local trivia question, who's the C in emc? Because everyone knows the Egans and the Marinos, but none of us can remember who C is.

Speaker C: That's right. I'm not going to put myself out there right now, but I do remember the question at least. Yeah, I don't recall the answer, but I remember the question.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, nobody knew. The person apparently didn't stay very long, whoever it might have been. So. But anyway, uh, I want to chat since, you know, by reputation you're sort of thought of as a bit of a forward thinking person, technology wise in particular with generative AI. And I'm curious because you work with a company that sells to the finance function too, but how do you think CFOs and their team should be thinking about utilizing generative AI? Because it's there and it's a game changer. On the other hand, CFOs need to be a little cautious with these new technologies.

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Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great question. I had the privilege of being around the table of 25 ish CFOs just this time last week in Davos. It was a lot colder than where it is here in California. And these were CFOs from just great organizations. And it was very interesting because we all had an opportunity to talk about what AI was doing for our companies and our vision for AI and start out saying look, it's so transformative and such an exciting time to be in business in general. And as a cfo, AI is just remarkable in what it'll do for all of our companies that every CFO represents, but also what it will do for the finance function. But to your point, the elements that are often sort of looked over would be the importance of the data set, sort of having a good system of record, really thinking about the environment where 90% confidence in the answer is adequate. In fact, it's just incredible. It's. And yet other examples in finance where 90% of confidence is terrible. And simply when you think about socks and you think about the need to be 100% right, 90% doesn't cut it. So you could spend a lot of energy and time trying to automate something or apply AI to something that requires something more than just that. So look, I think every company is at a different stage as it comes down to where they are and what chapter they're in as it comes back to their sort of AI journey. But I think as finance professionals, it's important to recognize what's the sort of broader ROI of these investments. There's a huge opportunity cost to not leaning in and doing something with AI. So how do you balance where your organization is, where your data is, where your people are, and how do you think about navigating this journey alongside all of the people that you work with? And I think what AI is really driving is a lot more collaboration across the C suite and, and for companies from the board level all the way through, every individual in the company to really think about change and to think about how quickly change can happen in companies and in industries and how there will be a lot of sort of challenges ahead, but also opportunities ahead using the same technology. So just a very interesting time to be in the market, for sure.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. I mean, we live in the most interesting time ever, I think. Right. And no doubt I'm sure the next generation will top what we're going through,

Speaker C: but they'll say the same thing, but that by that time we'll be retired.

Speaker B: So although, you know, my dad would have said he saw the first man walk on the moon, it's like.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: That was the most interesting thing in history, that he's probably got a valid point with that one, I suppose, but I would agree in a relative term. But are there any ways that you think CFOs should avoid AI, at least now until it's been sort of the things you say, hey, we're not going to do this. Absolutely not.

Speaker C: Look, I think it's really a matter of prioritization, so I wouldn't say avoiding it. I think for CFOs, it's you always come back to build, partner, buy. And thinking about every company has a different AI journey and there are lots of sort of, again, opportunities, but also challenges because there are other companies that can either be helpful to your journey or otherwise could try and disintermediate what you're trying to do. So I think for CFOs, it's really having a good mindset about where you are in the business, where the ROI is on those investment dollars and where you should be building things yourself or coming up with something more bespoke to your industry or to your company. And then in other cases where you should be looking to partners to partner with or vendors to provide that AI and provide that engine that's going to help accelerate your growth and your value. And that's sort of the key to all of this. And it's happening at such a fast pace that there's no harm in pivoting at some point. Because what seemed like a good decision a year ago, if you look at how the technology's already evolved over the last 12 months, may not be the right decision for your company today. But I think it's again, just having a lot of communication, having a lot of coordination and then being very thoughtful about prioritization. The opportunity cost to going in the wrong direction with the wrong technology is fairly high. So you have to think about pivoting and being agile, uh, in all of your decision making.

Speaker B: I tell people, like, I've made predictions about generative AI and you could have made a lot of money if you just predict. If you just bet against everything that I've said over the last couple years, I think I'm like over 37 or something like that. I've just, I've gotten it right at all. So it's great to hear your perspective on it.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, and I think many, if people were that good at it, there'd be a lot more people sort of, you know, betting with their dollars. And it has to stand the test of time. And as you point out, it's very difficult to sit here and say, what do I think things will look like three to five years from now? But you do know by doing nothing, they won't look good. So you've got to lean in, you've got to leverage it. There's so much learning and we've got sort of a top down approach to thinking about AI learning with AI, making sure that it's democratized, that everyone has the tool and everyone can learn from each other. I mean, that's the period we're in where no matter where you are in an organization, if you're not thinking about it each and every day, you're falling behind. And again, there's always opportunities to pivot. And to your point, you may not have the right technology at the right place that the learnings from that will make you so much smarter about your next decision. And that's what's Most important, that makes sense.

Speaker B: So I'm curious, just because of where your company's positioned, how is AI changing? Workday's product roadmap already changed. I assume it's the customers have to be excited about it.

Speaker C: Yeah, look, we. It's a great question. We listen closely to our customers and we understand their needs. And it's less about just building it for the sake of building it, and more about understanding how can we truly change outcomes and how can we help them become better at what they do in this area of people and finances and then planning. So we lean heavily into AI, as you can imagine. I mean, every software company and technology company is doing just that. We're very fortunate in that we've had founder that sort of thought about this many, many years ago. So we talk about having used AI for over 10 years now, so we've at least got a platform that we can leverage off. And as we think about things like agentic AI and helping our customers improve their lives, that's sort of the driver behind it all. And we're throwing tremendous amount of resources with some incredible individuals in building all that for our customer base. So it's something we think about consistently and continuously, not only as users of AI across the company, but in building AI, we've got incredible talent that are building some really fascinating things. And just that whole interface, not only with our product, but how you think about coming to work and what you do at work and how we can help that and improve that is part of our motivation.

Speaker B: That's fantastic. So one thing I want to ask you, and, uh, I'm a cpa, at least I was early in my career, so it's not a slim on them. But I love when my CFO guests aren't CPAs, because they just measure things differently, think about differently. But when you think of interesting ways to measure and define success, your company, what are some of the things that you think of that, you know, maybe are a little bit unconventional or, you know, non traditional might be the better word?

Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think in the finance realm, it is about collaboration, coordination, and what you can do as an incredible team. I mean, you go back, you know, we started with sort of how you think about growing up in school and having that imagination to help others in what they're doing. And I think you never really leave school as much as you think you do, because you've got to continuously learn more. And you look at people that I look up to and mentors that I have, they're consistently learning and challenging themselves in different ways. And I think as a company, you need to do the same thing. You can never be pleased with status quo. And that's, uh, the environment that we're working in at work. And I'm sure for all of your listeners, it's the same environment that they're in. And I would say it's getting out of your comfort zone. It's continually challenging yourself to think about what are the new projects and what are the new things we could be doing. And. And then for us, we're very inquisitive. So we also acquire a number of companies. And what I see happening with companies of all sizes, I mean, these incredible individuals are building some incredible products. And part of our roadmap is not only doing that ourselves, but also acquiring these technologies to accelerate our path. And of course, our mission being making your workday that much better and driving value for our customers. And that's been sort of part of our goal and our mission. And whether it's building our own products and leveraging AI in that way or otherwise making some of these acquisitions and some of the ones we've done on the recruiting side more recently are just fundamentally different to make that recruiting experience so much better, to lower attrition and to really think about the value of the workforce. But for companies, your most important asset are your employees and is the workforce. That's driving value for your company, and we're helping drive that. So as I think about the roadmap and how we apply AI to that, whether it's helping people learn better, helping people recruit better, I mean, they're all parts of operating a business that 10 years ago you had to roll your eyes and you think, oh, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, and there are forms to fill out and things you have to do. You can automate that and through AI, make that so much more intuitive, and then help employees along that journey as they continue to drive their careers. It's just an exciting time to be involved in the space. And that's what drives us and motivates us.

Speaker B: Now that. That's fantastic. One question, it occurs to me, so you're working for workday, and so you're sort of at the intersection of, uh, finance, obviously, but HR and planning. So I wonder if, you know, working for a company like that, does that actually impact how you approach your role as a cfo? It's kind of what you do for a living, right?

Speaker C: Uh, it does. I feel like the bar is really high internally, and we Consider ourselves customer zero, whether it's my sort of fellow workmates in finance or otherwise, the HR team in particular, which is great. So I have an opportunity and I spend a lot of time with our product teams. I hear about things that they're thinking about. It helps you benchmark maybe more than you otherwise would, but also you recognize that there are a lot of incredible technologies out there, a lot of incredible people building some exciting things. And that comes back to sort of the M and A side of what we do. So it's not only being motivated by your own technology and in our case, using our own technology and challenging them with, hey, how can we make this better? What customers are using this part versus that part. I also have to recognize we in the technology space don't represent a broad base of customers. I mentioned earlier that we've got 11,000 customers. They're in distinct industries. We've got great sectors and verticals that we're leaning into. So I also have to balance sort of what I'd call my needs selfishly with those of all the customers out there. So, you know, many times what they're building may not actually be something that we need sort of high on our prioritization, but really helps a lot of our customers, which are of many different sizes and sectors and industries around the globe. So there's a good balance there. But I love the dialogue. I mean, there's no better place. And one of the attractions for me being in this role was to a have a tremendous team, but also to be thinking about and looking at the future through our own technology and thinking about what we can do better and how we can make our customers lives better.

Speaker B: The question I get asked most often by my members is how do CFOs build that meaningful strategic relationship with the CEO? Because it used to be. CFOs have said for a long time my most important relationship was with the CEO. Rightly so. I've observed the last two or three years for the first time, CEOs are reciprocating that in large numbers. But how do you and co build that strategic partnership? You're almost equals. Not, you know, not quite. Sometimes the CEO has to trump a little bit. But how do you support him and drive value together?

Speaker C: No, look, the CEO always trumps, and that's the good and the bad with that job. Many times I go, look, here's my view. But ultimately it's a CEO decision and I hope to at least bring about a couple options to others. To your point, it's a very Important partnership. A company cannot be successful without having a CEO and a CFO with a substantive relationship. And that means the opportunity for me to tell exactly what I think, not to figure out how I support his decision, but really to have an open and transparent dialogue around how I view things. I also feel like it's my responsibility. And what I love about the CFO role in is our stakeholder base is so broad. I mean, I have access to the board, to investors, to workmates who many times will say things to me that I'm not so sure they would be as unfiltered to any CEO candidly as they would to me. So I feel like it's the CFO or anyone in finance, it's your responsibility. Because I always feel like finance, like everyone's sort of a mini CFO or all of us are, many CFOs really. But you really have to have that mindset that I want to drive value objectively for the company and what's the best way to do that. And to your point, relationships are so important. And it's not just the CFO to CEO relationship, but it's making sure that I have board members I can call or have dialogue with, that I can have transparent conversations with investors and with other employees and really think about customers and all of that coming together to give a different perspective. And many times either it's a different opinion, but to work collaboratively with him in helping set an agenda that can create value and create growth for the company and is important. But that dialogue and working together and every. You know, I've had the benefit, as I mentioned, of working with some incredible CEOs and each of them are a little bit different in their own ways. But it's sort of managing how you convey, whether it's a view, whether it's data, whether it's dialogue or otherwise, meetings for them to help them make better decisions on behalf of the company and for the company, that's an important part of that relationship. So it's important relationship, but it's one that I never feel like I have to be there to always be positive or say, hey, great job on this. I'll often be the one coming up saying with some constructive ideas or otherwise thought on how we could do better. And he reciprocates that as well. So it's a good relationship on both sides.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's the main thing, right? It's gotta be in both directions. So cool. So, Zane, one thing I've noticed you've been on a number, uh, of uh, boards of director seats during the course of your career, and right now, I believe you're on the board of ebay. And I'm curious, it's sort of two questions to that. Uh, the first one is how does the CFO get those board seats? Because, you know, they, they, they bring a lot of skill to it. And then the other thing is, you're on the board, and you've been on the boards of some great companies. Does that impact how you approach your day job of being a chief financial officer?

Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. First, I would say it definitely does. And I would encourage management teams out there, if you have an opportunity for anyone on your C suite, to be on a board. I learned so much from my experience, both at ebay and as you mentioned in prior board, it's an opportunity to be at the other side and to have a situation where you're asking questions and you're thinking about things with a slightly different lens than if you're actually sitting in the CFO seat. So I think it's incredible experience. I've had the good fortune of having lots of different roles within companies, but, you know, I think of the board experience as being one that just is invaluable and clearly makes me, in my opinion, a better CFO because of it. And to have the privilege to sit on the ebay board is just unbelievable. It's an international company. It again, stands. It has all the values that I love with companies, and it helps people around the globe. And when you really think about what that company stands for, I'm just so proud of it's not just the employees of ebay, which I'm obviously proud of, but the consumers and all the transactions and all the people who make a living out of that marketplace. It's remarkable. Some of the stories you hear are just outstanding. And then I think it's continuing. Back to your first question on how you get positions like that. It's being able to be out there. And obviously, uh, as a cfo, they tend to line you up for being on the audit committee. So if you are a CFO or in finance, you don't always have to be a cfo. I think boards benefit from people in finance at different levels with different levels of experience. You should expect to be tagged to be on the audit committee, which is also great, because there's no better way to sort of continue to learn and continue to understand what's happening in the area of accounting and finance. And the responsibility on an audit committee is great. And it's just a Privilege to have that opportunity to sit on one. But I will tell you, it also takes time and you have to take that role very seriously and learn a lot about the business and continue to be current in all things finance and accounting. But expressing a desire to have that be part of what you do is the first step. And then continuing to have good networking and let people know that you're interested in different opportunities is a good way to be on that path to getting a board seat.

Speaker B: So I want to ask, I mean, you've got a lot going on at CFO of a very visible company and on um, the audit committee of a very visible company as well. But all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, as they say, right? How do you maintain that healthy work life balance so that you're not just working 90 hours a week and burning yourself out by the time you're my age?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great question because with all of automation and all the things that are supposed to make us more productive and have us with all this spare time, I find that I don't have a lot of it. I will say as I get older I start to learn more and more about longevity. And thanks to all these devices that I wear an aura ring at night and sleep on an eight sleep mattress and all these things, I start monitoring myself. I've actually prioritized my own well being and health more, um, than I ever have. Earlier in my career I took great pride in telling everybody how I had survived on four or five hours sleep. And when you're in the middle of a deal for M and A, you're just charging and going and going and you felt proud about all of that effort and all that energy and all that work. And then you step back and you think about your body and, and you realize this is a long life and you've got a balance to your point, both work and then other aspects of life or if you're unbalanced, you think you're doing good work and hard work and you maybe are putting the energy in but you're not getting the output. And I think it is important to have that balance. And I would say I haven't struck that balance just yet, but I continue to work on first and foremost getting good sleep. I think that's incredibly important. And then getting out and exercising. I love anything on two wheels, so whether it's mountain biking, motorcycling, I love the water. So I try and kite surf in the summer when I can. And I just love being outdoors and I'm so fortunate to be at a place where I can get outdoors a fair amount regardless of the time of year. So that's part of that. To your point, that's part of that balance. And I like to at least work out when I can and be as healthy as I can, watch what I eat and try and strike that balance. But it's becoming, I think, more and more important that people start to think about all elements of health, you know, whether it's physical, mental, and all the other aspects of everything you do, regardless of where you are career wise, there's a lot of pressure out there. And as much as we're excited about technology and AI, it puts different stresses on people. And this idea that all of a sudden you're that much better and faster, you know, lives become more complicated for a variety of reasons. And I think it is important that you strike some kind of balance. And for everybody, it's a different answer, but it's something I'm focused more on today than I probably ever have been, uh, over my career.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. And I don't know too many CFOs who never have those crazy periods where, hey, you know, I've just got to get this done. I'm not working out for a couple of weeks or, you know, whatever it might be, right? Taking the company public with going on the roadshow. I'll try to exercise, but I'm going to forgive myself if you can just make the effort and, you know, it sounds like you love being in the outdoors, but it doesn't take that much. You know, I tell people 30, 45 minutes, right? I'm a indoor gym. You know, I live in a cold city. It's 3 degrees outside right now, actually, so I'm not doing anything outside. So I've just gotten used, you know, a moderate size set of dumbbells and a yoga mat, and I have enough to keep reasonable health.

Speaker C: And for everybody, I think their motivation's different and I love that I'm the same way because I at least like to dedicate some time. So I feel like Even if it's 20 minutes, just the act of doing it and the feeling you get from doing that puts you in a slightly different mindset and then, you know, doing a little bit of learning. I mean, I listen to a lot of audibles, eating better and having a healthier sort of mindset and all these other things that I think help, um, contribute to that. And look, I've got, feel like I've still a got a lot to learn and then I can always do better. But to your point, if it's just like a small thing here and there, it makes such a difference and you just feel so much better with it.

Speaker B: Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. So love to get your perspective on the ongoing role of the cfo. So how do you see the very nature of financial leadership changing? And then the corollary to that, is there any advice that you would give the next generation of CFOs, maybe those who were six months to two years from getting their first CFO job, or even those who are in their first role?

Speaker C: Sure. I think first off, the role changing, I think it continues to become a bigger part of the organization in a more collaborative way. So when I think about all the things that we're trying to do in finance, it involves so many different groups from IT to functional areas and all of that. So I think that role will continue to be just a partner to, I would say the CEO, but it's really a partner to everyone in the company. And you should feel like having that CFO role to help you get better insight, to help you think about different scenarios and to help you plan for creating value, creating growth. And I think the role will continue to evolve to be more like that, specifically with AI being part of that. And AI, it's the resource that you wish you had years ago and now you have at your fingertips. So to help create an environment, AI is only great if you actually use it in a smart way. I mean, I think a lot of people now are using it in interesting ways, but you're not necessarily driving a change in behavior or a change in what you do because of it. You're creating things faster and doing things faster. But are, uh, you really changing behavior and changing the way that you drive value for your company? And many times the answer to that is yes. But in other cases you have to really think about that. And then for CFOs of the future, I think this is an incredible time to be in business. I would say continue to challenge yourself, continue to learn, realize that there are no bad turns. It's sort of interesting interject. We look back on our careers and you can point to these different elements and people go, wow, that was great the way you thought about this and spend time in sales and operations and things. I would tell you incrementally it helps. I think it definitely helped me be a better CFO because of that experience. But it was me getting out of that comfort zone and forcing myself out of the Comfort zone, whether it's changing industries, changing roles that ultimately culminate in just being a better leader and ideally learning a lot more. And it really comes down to that. And then having a tremendous team that you can leverage and having a group of people that you can call that can motivate you when you need motivating, that where you can help. I think helping others is a big part of that. So be at the other end of the phone for people that need help and you getting better is about helping others that are still earlier in their career. I love spending time with people still in college. And I was on a zoom not that long ago with somebody who's thinking about an internship. And I said, look, here's some ideas, take it for what it's worth, but here's just some perspective. So if you can just help individuals in different ways, I think it just makes for a better career and obviously just helps you internally think about things yourself. I mean, you spend time with people early in their career. It'll really help fortify your own view on where you are and how you think about your next steps. So I think there's no better time to be in business. Thrilled to have the privilege to be a CFO of such a great company, but I recognize how lucky I am, candidly, and what a great opportunity this is.

Speaker B: Well, I think that's great advice. And more importantly, I know that the listeners will, uh, view it as great advice. So thanks so much, Zane. Uh, you have a lot going on and I do want to take a moment and just thank you for being here today. I think this was just a great conversation and with that, I'd just like to give you the opportunity to give your final thoughts.

Speaker C: Well, thanks, Jack. Thrilled to be here. And again, I think for me and for your listeners, I couldn't be more excited than about what the future will hold. As with any time in history, I know there, there are things to be excited about and then there are obviously concerns. But I think whether it's AI and just learning and having that experience, there's no better time to be in business. Because the changes that you're impacting, no matter where you are in an organization today or how you're thinking about your future career, things are happening at a pace that we just haven't experienced in human history before. So embrace it, challenge yourselves, look ahead, look forward, and just enjoy the journey.

Speaker B: That wraps up this episode of the secrets of rockstar CFOs. A huge thank you to our sponsors, Intuit and Plantful. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review@rockstarcfos.com until next time. Rock on.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to this episode. To continue your exploration of this role that focuses on strategy, leadership, finance and technology, listen to more episodes of the show at, uh.rockstarcfos.com join this revolution episode by episode. Push yourself to achieve great things and unlock the best opportunities available to you. CFOs are creating a legacy and it's time for you to leave your own unique imprint on the world today. That's all for now. See you on the next one.